The Necessity of Reparation for Historic Injustices

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bluediamond started the topic in Sunday, 25 Jul 2021 at 1:26pm

Uni assignment i did a few years ago. This is my take on things. I'm sure this will ruffle many feathers. I hope so.
Love Blue Diamond x

The Necessity of Reparation for Historic Injustices

Introduction – Compensatory Justice
Disparities between the standards of living of humans on this planet have long been a part of our history on this planet. From the wealthy nations of the West to the developing and undeveloped nations on this globe, the diversity in the quality of life when viewed from a moral standpoint are without a doubt grossly unfair.
In this paper I will look at why historic injustices do require some form of reparation. I take a strong stance that we are more obliged to solve current injustices than to provide reparation for every act of injustice in the past. In doing this I will first investigate the historic injustice of the Aboriginal people of Australia and I will look at the argument that they are entitled to some form of reparation and why.
I will incoroporate some interesting views from Jeremy Waldron, Robert Nozick and others which will help me slowly build to my conclusion that reparation should be in the form of Non Indigenous Australians surrendering some of our priveleges as a form of reparation.

Historic Injustices to Indigenous Australians:
Australia the continent was well inhabited for many years long before white settlement. It is commonly known that in 1788 Australia was colonised as a country under the rule of the British Empire, with total contempt for the fact that it was already inhabited by a native indigenous race of people.
The way the original inhabitants have been treated, including forced assimilation, execution, stolen families and not even allowed to be recognised as citizens for a large part of white Australia’s history are also well known facts. (Poole, 1999,pp114-142)
There exists now a situation where there is a large divide between Aboriginal and non Aboriginal Australian’s that can be traced back to the moment Australia was invaded by English settlers and the brutal and unfair treatment that has followed.
So at this point now, in 2013 what is the just and fair way to make amends for past actions?
I would argue that a moderate to large amount of reparation is overdue for this nation of people, the Aboriginal people. But there are many challenges to this view point especially that of how much reparation, and what sort of compensation.

Past injustices or present suffering?
One of the questions raised in an issue like this is whether it is better to provide compensation or reparation for past deeds, which have already been done in a previous generation and cannot be changed, or whether it is better to now provide assistance to those who are suffering in their current situations and consider that as a form of moral duty.
To understand this we need to delve a little deeper into this issue and hear some differing viewpoints.
Firstly we need to understand what the best way to provide reparation. How do we judge what is the best way of giving back and how much? Jeremy Waldron states “The historic record has a fragility that consists, …in the sheer contingency of what happened in the past” (Waldron,1992,p5 )
This is saying that we can’t trace every single injustice back to the original act therefore reparation for every act would be almost impossible because it would ultimately be guess work.
In this statement he has an objection from Robert Nozick who believes it is in fact possible to address this problem by “changing the present so that it resembles how the past would have looked had the injustice not taken place” (McKenzie, 2013)
This would be a way to ultimately provide maximum reparation, but is it the correct approach? I believe this is a fairly radical approach, although it does have some merits in the fact it would be working in a positive way for indigenous people, I don’t think it is entirely the right way to deal with these issues but it is on the right track.
Waldron argues that it is based on too many unknowns. “The status of counterfactual reasoning about the exercising of human reasoning of human freedom is unclear”(Waldron 1993,p10)
Which leaves the question somewhat open about the sort of reparation that is required, but provides one clear answer to the key question. Both agree that yes, reparation to some extent is required. But how much and in what form?
Another philosopher who leans more towards Waldron’s views is Kymlicka. He is somewhat more straightforward in his assessment that property rights in particular for Aboriginals would create “massive unfairness” and also he maintains the argument “Aboriginal rights must be grounded in concerns about equality and contemporary disadvantage. (McKenzie, 2013) I agree with both these views but I don’t think they provide any active solutions.

The Solution?
So if its not handing back all of Australia’s land to the original inhabitants that is the most appropriate way to deal with past injustices, then what is?
I look at the current country I grew up in, as a white Australian. I ask myself why I never had Aboriginal friends growing up, no understanding of Aboriginal culture and why my basic understanding of Indigenous Australians is mostly 200 years old. I look at our flag, a symbol of a nation that stole a country from its original inhabitants, with no recognition of the Indigenous people at all on it. I see that Australia considered Indigenous people as less than people until only 40 years ago and I see the way that Indigenous Australians live a completely separate life to the way of life I know as an Australian. I see that the only indigenous politician I am aware of is a former Olympian and it is because of this fact of her sporting status that I know this. I see no collective power or representation of Indigenous Australians and I see non Indigenous Australians,( a culture built on a history of stealing a land and mistreating its people) still taking, taking as much out of this land as they can, with little to no regard of sharing or giving to the original inhabitants. I see a government that says lots of words about ‘closing the gap’ and bringing the living standards of non- indigenous and indigenous Australians closer together, but apart from nice words, there is no conviction, no follow through, just assimilation , and all that still remains are injustices.
As stated by Sparrow, “Continuity gives rise to responsibility on part of present generations of Australians for our history”.(McKenzie,2013). Although deeds happened in the past beyond our control, what we do now to either ignore, or rectify these issues will reflect on us in history. So if we choose to do nothing, we are contributing to the history of the mistreatment of non- indigenous Australians. And this is simply unacceptable in my opinion.

Conclusion
So what is fair? I believe that the way forward is a surrendering of some of our privileges as non- indigenous Australians. The simple fact is it was morally wrong without a doubt what has happened in the past. And it is also morally wrong without a doubt to ignore these facts and not offer some form of reparation in the present. But how much?
I think that going back to Robert Nozick’s argument is a start. I think Nozick is wrong to make the present resemble the past in every aspect. But I do think that it would be reasonable to restore some aspects of the way things should be. The things that happened in the past were out of our control and we can’t go back to changing the way things were. But we could change the way things are.
For some examples. Why not give at least 50% of political power to indigenous people? It surely would be a fair thing to do considering this is their country. Media control. 50 percent. Industry. Realestate. The list goes on. Why do we not acknowledge the indigenous people on our flag, or better still use their flag? Why is Australia still a part of the Commonwealth when it serves little purpose to any of us and serves as a constant reminder to Indigenous Australians that they are still controlled by the original invaders. These to me are fairly simple reparations that would have minimal impact on Australia as a whole. Perhaps, it would alter the way we live but I think it is our responsibility, morally to forfeit some of our privileges for the greater good. Basically a little bit goes a long way.
In closing, it is a fact that a huge injustice occurred to the Indigenous population and suffering continues to this day. There is no easy solution to such a burden of pain. I believe the only solutions are for the non- Indigenous population to take responsibility and sacrifice our own way of life to bring about an overall equality. Sacrifice is not an easy word. But it all comes down to right and wrong. We are in a position to give, in this current generation. What are we so scared to lose, that was never ours in the first place??

Bibliography
McKenzie,C.”Prof” (2013), Lecture, Historic Injustices and Indigenous Rights, Macquarie University
Poole, R. (1999). Nation and Identity.Routledge, London, pp.114-142
Waldron,J. (1992). ‘Superseding Historic Injustice’. Ethics, 103 (1), 4-28

References
Poole, R. (1999). Nation and Identity.Routledge, London, pp.114-142
Waldron,J. (1992). ‘Superseding Historic Injustice’. Ethics, 103 (1), 4-28

Blowin's picture
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Blowin Thursday, 14 Oct 2021 at 3:15pm

You can say Iap with affection, you can say Japanese dripping with hate.
Same with anything. Disallowing words is ridiculous in most cases. Obviously some words are employed as hateful so often that they are frozen in that context. Even that may not be permanent. Times and attitudes change.

Often times words are designated as hateful purely in order to shift goalposts. There’s zero difference between say “coloured people” and “people of colour” but one is deemed offensive and the other reverential. I don’t under the difference.

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Hiccups Thursday, 14 Oct 2021 at 3:16pm
Blowin wrote:
Hiccups wrote:
Blowin wrote:

Here’s a novel thought : Just because one person finds a term offensive-by-proxy , it doesn’t make that term offensive.

It's not a novel thought though is it. Not even close. It's the same old tired
excuse that gets thrown around every time some drongo starts banging on about "cancel culture" and "pc gone mad".

A smart fella would assess each instance on its merits and not divide the world into two camps- White hatted Pure hearted saviours vs Black hatted evil unrestrained.

Did you ever stop to think that maybe someone who doesn’t want to talk ill of an entire nation of people may still refer to them as Japs? Did you ever stop and put something into context and when they actually tell you straight out that it’s not intended to be offensive, you actually give them credit to talk they way they see fit?

I find it hard to believe that anyone that considers themselves clever, as your fart-sniffing self obviously does, wouldn't see fit to alter their language in even the smallest of ways, knowing why a certain term is offensive, and has been for a long time. Maybe they're not as switched on as they think they are. Maybe they've just reached a point in their life where they're so resistant to changing anything about their personality, no matter how odious, that they don't care if they're on the wrong side of history.

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brutus Thursday, 14 Oct 2021 at 3:20pm
Blowin wrote:
Hiccups wrote:

just because it's not racist to you, does not mean Japs is a derogatory insult to the Japanese .
Just like when you told me to cover myself in possum fat .......I called you out at the time , as for me it was racist , you came back with a lame answer to try and justify your statement...
You must be very special to be able to snipe atop your self righteous Mountain?

Hmm. I'm coming around to your way of thinking. We legalised gay marriage. I guess we can bring back calling people "poofters" now. Maybe only to young gay fellas though. Y'know, the ones that are too young to remember it being thrown around liberally.

Poofters could be considered derogatory. Jap is a simple abbreviation.

I reckon you should come around to my way of thinking as you’re obviously bereft of any thinking of your own and instead you are forced to repeat, without analysis, things that you overheard others say. Cause you sure have no reason to considers Jap as anything offensive in 2021.

Do you consider it offensive to refer to a Balinese as a Balo? Do you get weepy when a Balo refers to you as a Bule? And Bule isn’t even a happy abbreviation.

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Blowin Thursday, 14 Oct 2021 at 3:26pm
Hiccups wrote:
Blowin wrote:
Hiccups wrote:
Blowin wrote:

Here’s a novel thought : Just because one person finds a term offensive-by-proxy , it doesn’t make that term offensive.

It's not a novel thought though is it. Not even close. It's the same old tired
excuse that gets thrown around every time some drongo starts banging on about "cancel culture" and "pc gone mad".

A smart fella would assess each instance on its merits and not divide the world into two camps- White hatted Pure hearted saviours vs Black hatted evil unrestrained.

Did you ever stop to think that maybe someone who doesn’t want to talk ill of an entire nation of people may still refer to them as Japs? Did you ever stop and put something into context and when they actually tell you straight out that it’s not intended to be offensive, you actually give them credit to talk they way they see fit?

I find it hard to believe that anyone that considers themselves clever, as your fart-sniffing self obviously does, wouldn't see fit to alter their language in even the smallest of ways, knowing why a certain term is offensive, and has been for a long time. Maybe they're not as switched on as they think they are. Maybe they've just reached a point in their life where they're so resistant to changing anything about their personality, no matter how odious, that they don't care if they're on the wrong side of history.

The opinion that using the word Jap is on the wrong side of history is utterly subjective. I’ve used it my whole life and in 90% of instances it’s been well intentioned. The word is the same, it’s the delivery that changes. Surely you can account for this nuance and be able to accept that I don’t feel the need to outsource judgement on that to other people. Where do you stop when you start pandering to the vacuous whims of others who want to control you? As long as you know you are well intentioned then that should be enough for others. There’s plenty of times I’ve been impolite, rude and insulting but referring to the Japanese people as Japs is- in this instance- not one of them.

The word Bloke is inoffensive enough but there would have to be little doubt that when I’m referring to someone as Bloke, I obviously am less than impressed with them. Is Bloke in itself derogatory? No. I weaponised Bloke with the intent to dehumanise the people I vehemently disagree with. They’re reduced to a trope of every dickhead I’ve ever met. Yet no one is crying when I bandy Bloke around except for the excessive overuse.

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Hiccups Thursday, 14 Oct 2021 at 3:26pm

...and a false equivalence.

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Blowin Thursday, 14 Oct 2021 at 3:28pm

You didn’t read it did you Bloke?

Did you even pause to consider anything I said? If not….why would I give a rat’s arse how you feel about my language?

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Hiccups Thursday, 14 Oct 2021 at 3:33pm

Yeah. I read it. You're just tripling down on the same dribble.

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stunet Thursday, 14 Oct 2021 at 3:35pm

@Blowin,

I was surprised to find out that 'Jap' is offensive. Thought it was equivalent to Aussies, or Danes, but a bit of digging shows it's not the case. Sure, it's a bit of overreach by Hiccups but why go in so hard to fight it?

And yes, I've read everything you've written and often have debates with my wife that language should be judged on intention, but why not treat it as a learning moment rather than dig into well worn patterns?

It's a big, wide world after all.

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Hiccups Thursday, 14 Oct 2021 at 3:36pm

Also, you think you've weaponised the word "bloke", but in reality you just sound like a boof-headed wanker. Carry on.

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Hiccups Thursday, 14 Oct 2021 at 3:40pm
stunet wrote:

@Blowin,

I was surprised to find out that 'Jap' is offensive. Thought it was equivalent to Aussies, or Danes, but a bit of digging shows it's not the case. Sure, it's a bit of overreach by Hiccups but why go in so hard to fight it?

And yes, I've read everything you've written and often have debates with my wife that language should be judged on intention, but why not treat it as a learning moment rather than dig into well worn patterns?

It's a big, wide world after all.

Don't need to do any digging. Google "Jap offensive", and the first result is a wiki entry on the word.

Then there's this
https://www.japan-talk.com/jt/new/is-the-word-Jap-derogatory

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bluediamond Thursday, 14 Oct 2021 at 3:42pm
Hutchy 19 wrote:

I have mentioned on this thread to Blue D that I was offended at being asked to not think like an old WHITE man .

I told him so but it made no difference so I got over it .

Ah Hutchy! Did i call you old? Didn't know ur age so sorry! Dont actually remember doing that but i'll take your word.
Hey hutch you incessantly posted for weeks on end a question to all of us about HOW we can help move forward in regards to Indigenous Australia. A few days ago i gave a fairly thorough reply, to which you either ignored or didn't see... and again, above, i see you're still asking HOW!!?? You've been a noted pest on this thread so if you're gonna ask questions but not respond to the answers, but then still ask the same questions.....i dunno...you see where i'm going with this?

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Blowin Thursday, 14 Oct 2021 at 3:46pm
stunet wrote:

@Blowin,

I was surprised to find out that 'Jap' is offensive. Thought it was equivalent to Aussies, or Danes, but a bit of digging shows it's not the case. Sure, it's a bit of overreach by Hiccups but why go in so hard to fight it?

And yes, I've read everything you've written and often have debates with my wife that language should be judged on intention, but why not treat it as a learning moment rather than dig into well worn patterns?

It's a big, wide world after all.

It’s just more anti authoritarianism on my behalf.

I don’t particularly like conforming my personality to the whims of others. Especially when their demands are arbitrary and basically nonsensical. There is absolutely nothing wrong or derogatory about my using the term Jap in good faith so fucked if I’m changing to suit someone else’s sensitivities. They can change theirs to suit mine. It’s their problem. It’s actually their Non Problem, as they don’t find it offensive themselves, just another sleazy offence by proxy takedown.

I’ve asked Hiccups to review my use of the word in good faith and find it in his generous heart to perhaps evolve to the fact that the term isn’t meant offensively. He doesn’t respect me enough to find the time or energy to re educate himself to my world view. Good luck and goodbye is my next thought.

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Blowin Thursday, 14 Oct 2021 at 3:47pm

Here’s another link :

Google Swellnet Blowin Jap is not offensive.

It’s just as valid as anything else.

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Hiccups Thursday, 14 Oct 2021 at 3:48pm

...

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stunet Thursday, 14 Oct 2021 at 3:48pm

It seems it is to a whole nation of people.

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Hiccups Thursday, 14 Oct 2021 at 3:51pm
stunet wrote:

It seems it is to a whole nation of people.

It would break him to admit he's wrong.

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Blowin Thursday, 14 Oct 2021 at 3:54pm

It truly bewilders me the way people will cry rivers about the potential for offence to be found in an innocently employed term, the way they will argue hardcore about how it might, maybe considered an insult. Even though the person who used the term quite plainly states it was not intended as offensive. But still….they must be punished as guilty of potential offence to some faceless victim who may not exist!!!!

Very next post that person is directly unloading “ Boof headed wanker” upon someone.

I thought we were trying to create a world of pure respect? Apparently not.

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Hiccups Thursday, 14 Oct 2021 at 4:00pm

...and another false equivalence. Better lay off the caffeine and get onto the chamomile big lad. I think you've done enough red-neckery for one day.

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stunet Thursday, 14 Oct 2021 at 4:06pm

I'm not part of that argument you're having with Hiccups. My issue is why not, when it's presented to you that Jap is offensive, just roll with it and move on? Here's something we learned today.

A lot of what people find offensive doesn't make sense to me, but this is the mystery of culture. If you want to continue using it around your mates then go for it, but to double down on it in a public forum just seems futile.

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Blowin Thursday, 14 Oct 2021 at 4:06pm

You know what, Stu? I’m pretty positive the Japanese people forfeited their right to decide whether my use of the word Jap is appropriate or not when they started killing Australians wholesale.

I have been called whitey by many, many indigenous Australians and I understand that in many ways their perspective on Anglo Australians is similar to my perspective on Japanese. That’s why I let the indigenous person make the judgement call on whether the term is appropriate or not. Most times it’s used in a friendly manner, sometimes not. Either way it’s not my place to tell them that I might find the word uncomfortable. Not until it’s unambiguously meant to be taken as offensive anyway.

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Hiccups Thursday, 14 Oct 2021 at 4:08pm

You being called whitey by an indigenous Australian is not how racism works.

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stunet Thursday, 14 Oct 2021 at 4:09pm

Everything is a battleground for you, isn't it?

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Blowin Thursday, 14 Oct 2021 at 4:11pm

Stu…I don’t think doubling down is futile. I think rolling over and showing your belly to some belligerent language Nazi on the internet is unpalatable.
I’m not here to appease them and they’re not here to tell me how to think, live or act. Easy as that.

It’s less a culture war and more the refusal to bow to self elected arbiters of morality who don’t know a thing about me beyond the fact they want me to bend to their will.

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Roadkill Thursday, 14 Oct 2021 at 4:11pm

Jezus..everyday, the idiot proves just how much of a gutter dweller he is.

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Hiccups Thursday, 14 Oct 2021 at 4:16pm
Roadkill wrote:

Jezus..everyday, the idiot proves just how much of a gutter dweller he is.

Imagine trying that hard to be Mr Alpha Male everyday. Stomping around the internet, lowering the tone with bully-boy behaviour. Exhausting.

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Hutchy 19 Thursday, 14 Oct 2021 at 4:25pm

Blue Diamond - You are right that I have repeatedly asked what more we can do to help .

I have looked at all your posts and you have NEVER offered a reasonable option . If you think I may have missed some PLEASE re post them and I promise to peruse them . All you have done is abuse me every time I have asked .

I was thrilled that Brutus posted an article today about building healing centres . This is the FIRST good option I have heard on this thread other than changing some place names . I have already said above I want to learn more about them , are they being built , what are they teaching . I will do my OWN research .

I said we need to do more more , I said this week that the only thing I can think of was providing more education and again I was abused .

Your comment - "You've been a noted pest on this thread so if you're gonna ask questions but not respond to the answers, but then still ask the same questions.....i dunno...you see where i'm going with this?" is typical of ALL your fucken responses to me .

It may surprise you but this " Old ( maybe I added in old ) white man " does really want to know how we can help . There is no Fucken ulteria motive !!!!!!!!

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overthefalls Thursday, 14 Oct 2021 at 4:31pm

I’m pretty sure my Aboriginal mates would not like me referring to them as “Abos”, even if I used the word as a term of endearment. Intention is one thing; response is another.

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Blowin Thursday, 14 Oct 2021 at 4:45pm
Hiccups wrote:
Roadkill wrote:

Jezus..everyday, the idiot proves just how much of a gutter dweller he is.

Imagine trying that hard to be Mr Alpha Male everyday. Stomping around the internet, lowering the tone with bully-boy behaviour. Exhausting.

Yet I find your pursed lipped dominatrix routine nauseating. You ever noticed that it’s always flogs like you on here telling me what to think, do and say and not vice versa? If you can’t shame people into your little world view you straight out abuse them. I’m not interested in that.

When was the last time I acted the school marm and policed your language or determined what was acceptable for you to think or say? Never.

You think you know me but you are so wide of the mark. Just because I didn’t immediately drop to my knees and beg forgiveness for using a word you didn’t approve of that I’m a gutter dwelling whatever?

Sure bloke

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Roadkill Thursday, 14 Oct 2021 at 4:46pm
Blowin wrote:
Hiccups wrote:
Roadkill wrote:

Jezus..everyday, the idiot proves just how much of a gutter dweller he is.

Imagine trying that hard to be Mr Alpha Male everyday. Stomping around the internet, lowering the tone with bully-boy behaviour. Exhausting.

Yet I find your pursed lipped dominatrix routine nauseating. You ever noticed that it’s always flogs like you on here telling me what to think, do and say and not vice versa? If you can’t shame people into your little world view you straight out abuse them. I’m not interested in that.

When was the last time I acted the school marm and policed your language or determined what was acceptable for you to think or say? Never.

You think you know me but you are so wide of the mark. Just because I didn’t immediately drop to my knees and beg forgiveness for using a word you didn’t approve of that I’m a gutter dwelling whatever?

Sure bloke

It's pretty eady to know you. Most in here have you easily pegged.
The standard of individual you are is on display daily.

A very very easy read.

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Hiccups Thursday, 14 Oct 2021 at 4:50pm
Blowin wrote:

You think you know me but you are so wide of the mark.

d00d. You spill your guts on here everyday. I think anyone who swans in knows you pretty well.

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tubeshooter Thursday, 14 Oct 2021 at 5:04pm

I didn't realise it was offensive to use for some either. Seems it's more offensive in certain countries than others. I've used it many times around Japanese people and never sensed any awkwardness. Which, as I know ,they won't generally come out and correct you upfront , but I am familiar with how they express discomfort in a situation without actually saying so.
But knowing that it can be offensive I will certainly consider my usage of it in the future, not saying I won't use it though.
An article about the automotive and motorsport industries and the use of 'Jap' in company names etc and a response from the Japanese Consulate in America about its use ...

"In general, Japanese people are aware of the offensive connotations of the word ‘Jap’ in some contexts, as would be expected. On the other hand, in the Japanese language it is fairly common to abbreviate words and/or combine shortened words to form a new term, mostly for simplicity. So in this sort of context, as with the usages you described, it would not necessarily be unusual or considered offensive.

Bruce Powley
Consulate General of Japan Denver"

https://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/2015/12/automotive-circles-still-use-w...
"To paraphrase : the word Jap is offensive ,except when it isn't"..the author

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Blowin Thursday, 14 Oct 2021 at 5:13pm
Hiccups wrote:
Blowin wrote:

You think you know me but you are so wide of the mark.

d00d. You spill your guts on here everyday. I think anyone who swans in knows you pretty well.

No idea.

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bluediamond Thursday, 14 Oct 2021 at 5:16pm
Hutchy 19 wrote:

Blue Diamond - You are right that I have repeatedly asked what more we can do to help .

I have looked at all your posts and you have NEVER offered a reasonable option . If you think I may have missed some PLEASE re post them and I promise to peruse them . All you have done is abuse me every time I have asked .

I was thrilled that Brutus posted an article today about building healing centres . This is the FIRST good option I have heard on this thread other than changing some place names . I have already said above I want to learn more about them , are they being built , what are they teaching . I will do my OWN research .

I said we need to do more more , I said this week that the only thing I can think of was providing more education and again I was abused .

Your comment - "You've been a noted pest on this thread so if you're gonna ask questions but not respond to the answers, but then still ask the same questions.....i dunno...you see where i'm going with this?" is typical of ALL your fucken responses to me .

It may surprise you but this " Old ( maybe I added in old ) white man " does really want to know how we can help . There is no Fucken ulteria motive !!!!!!!!

Ahhh so you're deliberately posting things i never wrote to post me in a bad light. Well. Interesting start to unpacking your little rant here.
Secondly, you said you've never seen me write anything that offers solutions. Interestingly, the post i put up a few days speaks exactly about doing what Brutus posted above, yet somehow, through not comprehending by actually listening/reading/reflecting, you missed that.
I would suggest, the biggest help you could currently be, along with alot of 'old white Australians' would be to listen and stop speaking so much about what you know so little about.

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indo-dreaming Thursday, 14 Oct 2021 at 5:23pm

If Zen is out there, would be interesting to hear his take on the term Jap or Jap's? im going to be guessing not that great.

I had quite a few Japanese surfer friends on the Goldie as mates lived with a few Japanese surfers in a share house and those Japanese had Japanese surfer friends too that would come party with us (also some Japanese girls), some of the guys that lived with them referred to them as Jap's and the Japanese surfers were cool with it, but it was used in a way that was kinda of a term of endearment even if shit stirring etc

But in all honestly i never felt comfortable using the term at least in their presence, just because although i was mates with them, i wasn't as close with them as others that lived with them, I just went around to see my mates and would drink with them all, they were funny buggers though.

I even tend to steer away from using the term Indo's or Balo's around Indonesians, it's not that it's bad but i don't think its overly respectful either, so i just dont use it incase it causes offensive, or just so i dont sound like a typical Aussie bogan surfer.

But each to their own, some terms are definitely not okay though, as kids we always shortened Aboriginal but it's obviously far from acceptable these days.

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Hutchy 19's picture
Hutchy 19 Thursday, 14 Oct 2021 at 5:31pm

Typical Blue D response . I said I hadn't seen ONE good suggestion you have posted and asked you to post them . You didn't so when I have some time I will look back a few days . Please send me the other post you mentioned or give me the week so I can have a look .

I have repeatedly said I feel not qualified to offer my own suggestions so trying to not "speak" much .

You still have NEVER given me anything realistic that's worth "listening to " . Why not start now ?

Giving Aboriginals 50% voting rights and 50% of all our industries is a stupid idea as I have told you .

FFS give me one good idea !

indo-dreaming's picture
indo-dreaming's picture
indo-dreaming Thursday, 14 Oct 2021 at 5:38pm

BTW. I never saw them get upset at being called Japs, but OMG they weren't shy if someone didnt take their shows off when entering, even if a shitty share house.

Hutchy 19's picture
Hutchy 19's picture
Hutchy 19 Thursday, 14 Oct 2021 at 5:44pm

I do love the Japanese ( and Koreans ) but they are very racist . Don't like their blood being mixed at all .

May have changed somewhat is the last few decades . Still no reason to offend them .

zenagain's picture
zenagain's picture
zenagain Thursday, 14 Oct 2021 at 5:54pm

Indo, I've been staying out of this but since you asked, I think Gary on the last page summed it up pretty well. Even though I'm married to one and we kinda have a little in joke and use the term Jap at times, I don't use it. It carries a bit of baggage. Likewise, she doesn't call me a round-eyed white monkey (even though I'd be cool with it.)

And Hutchy, you're right, racist as they come but probably not in the way you'd think. They just hate other Asians.

indo-dreaming's picture
indo-dreaming's picture
indo-dreaming Thursday, 14 Oct 2021 at 5:59pm

Cheers, that's the view point i kind of expected.

BTW. Especially Chinese yeah, I think most other Asian's dislike Chinese, mostly because of them owning so much wealth in other Asian countries and having a reputation of being very cut throat business people.

Constance B Gibson's picture
Constance B Gibson's picture
Constance B Gibson Thursday, 14 Oct 2021 at 5:57pm

"It's pretty easy to know you. Most in here have you easily pegged.
The standard of individual you are is on display daily.
A very very easy read."

"d00d. You spill your guts on here everyday. I think anyone who swans in knows you pretty well."

Oh dear...sad but true. And I do mean sad these days. It's been true for years!

Blowin, you may have thought my posting of the Mental Health info before wasn't genuine, but it is.

You as a joke, bloke...well, it just isn't funny anymore (to borrow from Stephen Patrick). Your deterioration is on display for all to see, and it isn't pretty. Pitiable now? Yes.

Man, you wanna write? Try a personal diary. 'Cos these threads aren't it. Or should be.

They're not even your FB/Insta. Those sites contain friends and family for the most part. It's kind of their point.

Have a rest. Think of it as a win-win for all and sundry.

Blowin's picture
Blowin's picture
Blowin Thursday, 14 Oct 2021 at 6:09pm

Another flog telling others what to do.

Hows it feel to embody petty spite? Good? You’ve been gunning for it for as long as I’m aware of you.

stunet's picture
stunet's picture
stunet Thursday, 14 Oct 2021 at 6:09pm

Don't start with the psyche assessments again, especially the faux concern about mental health. If he frustrates you, as he sometimes does me, then confront it using rhetoric or humour, anything but this smarmy condescending shit you fall back on.

Constance B Gibson's picture
Constance B Gibson's picture
Constance B Gibson Thursday, 14 Oct 2021 at 6:14pm

Touching stuff.

I guess we all need a safe space.

Thanks.

stunet's picture
stunet's picture
stunet Thursday, 14 Oct 2021 at 6:14pm

You're welcome. I can also assist with bad posture and halitosis too.

Constance B Gibson's picture
Constance B Gibson's picture
Constance B Gibson Thursday, 14 Oct 2021 at 6:21pm

Physician heal thyself, hey?

What about wilful blindness/myopia? Stockholm syndrome? Any experience?

stunet's picture
stunet's picture
stunet Thursday, 14 Oct 2021 at 6:22pm

Can't help you with that sorry.

gsco's picture
gsco's picture
gsco Thursday, 14 Oct 2021 at 6:25pm
indo-dreaming wrote:

BTW. Especially Chinese yeah, I think most other Asian's dislike Chinese, mostly because of them owning so much wealth in other Asian countries and having a reputation of being very cut throat business people.

My experience is it's a bit more deep-seated historically and culturally than that, particularly because by being close neighbours and so there's history of conflict etc between China and surrounding Asian countries going back 100s (well 1000?) of years.

Constance B Gibson's picture
Constance B Gibson's picture
Constance B Gibson Thursday, 14 Oct 2021 at 6:32pm

Actually, while you're there Stuart, why does poor old Hutchy provoke your particular ire?

He's just cut from the same cloth as some on here. A sort of grandfather of BlowIndo as it were.

The differences are negligible.

Blowin's picture
Blowin's picture
Blowin Thursday, 14 Oct 2021 at 6:49pm

Some people come here for surf reports, some come here to talk surfing, some come here to talk shit and argue.

Only Facto comes here purely to spread malice and spite . What kind of person does that? It’s about as ugly as the human condition can get.

The type who would’ve set fire to cats as a kid.

Constance B Gibson's picture
Constance B Gibson's picture
Constance B Gibson Thursday, 14 Oct 2021 at 7:02pm

Is anyone still listening, Blowin?

That must really hurt.

Take care, buddy.

I mean it.