Love your work Freeride.
Yep. This isn't about nations or nationalities.
It's purely about fairness (and my missing 600 bucks)
I disagree about it not having elements of grand conspiracy, but how could we ever know.
What i do know, is that when sports allow betting to take place, then human greed will find a way to manipulate results if there is even a slight door of opportunity open to it.
How that translates to anything that happened yesterday is probably negligible in this case, but i do reckon it's an element that's been largely overlooked in pro surfing.
It would have to be the easiest sport to slightly and knowingly manipulate a few results and give the heads up to a friend or relative to tip a few bucks a certain way. Or maybe they just tow the line to the betting agencies.
Who knows. But not hard to imagine conspiracies are at play after the blatant rip off yesterday.
I'd like to see a deeper dive into the betting element of pro surfing.
Nobody has touched it yet and it's a potential expose on all sorts of muck.
My personal take on yesterday though, was it was all American Pie, from the drunken crew poolside to the eventual winner.
There was no way they weren't going to push Cola through with the stars and stripes flavor of the comp.
They probably think they've finally made it in America, they'd be that fucken naive to what reality actually is. Ha!

Yep you are right. Not many surfers give a shit about pro surfers in a wave pool.

bang on the mark steve

i’ve watched the final a couple times again too and i just can’t see how griff got it

i don’t like to criticise, however my other gripe with judging is that i get really annoyed when something is deemed ‘incomplete’ when absolute risk has been taken vs something ridden thru at minimal juice -‘ nearly ‘ at full tilt is way better than getting home on the tram…it’s subjective of course but at times i feel there’s scope to reward effort, and that might help to stop safety surfing

Quote from Fr 'I cannot imagine grand conspiracy from a judging panel to get Griff a hometown final at Trestles. Others might.'

Well makes me wonder though, if that is the case do the judges all get together before the heat and whisper to each other that they have been instructed to get Griff over the line...mmm hard to imagine that happening but it explains the scoring ..something stinks in lemoore besides the cow shit

As much as I prefer the aesthetics of Ethan’s and Griff’s surfing, I have to admit that, based on the WSL’s judging criteria, Gabriel’s and Italo’s surfing was superior. It’s not fair to shift the goal posts without informing the players. If the judges are leaning towards a more Ewing-esque style of surfing, then they should make it known. I’m sure the Brazilians have the skill and hyper-competitive nature to adapt and thrive.

“(now labelled “unacceptable” in the WSL's only response so far)”

Where did you find a WSL response? Surprised they’ve even addressed it.

Steve where did the WSL respond?

I was waiting for Carissa to be brought up. I couldn’t be bothered comparing her surfing with others in the pool, too boring, but my gosh, she’s just tapping it, so repetitively. Dead set didn’t get much more than 60% . Super, safety surfed and the judges give her 8.60’s and the likes.

I agree with the Brazilian sentiment also. Not that there’s some kind of conspiracy, but their surfing was more dynamic. This doesn’t pass the pub test. In other years Italo or Gabe would’ve progressed for sure.

Feels like a tipping point. Are the WSL actually going to have to do something or do they continue to piss off every stakeholder in the game by virtue of their silence and lack of transparency?

The WSL is just like the WWE: a travelling circus with rigged results. Unfortunately, it’s less entertaining.

Gabby, Italo etc. have been getting juiced for years.
Now they're not getting so juiced, and the judges are finally starting to take the 'Flow' portion of the criteria into account.
That does not equal a legitimate beef.

Also, spare me with the notion that having a jerky crappy style is progressive in any way, or that only airs are progressive.

I will probably get roasted for this but as a package, I think pro-surfing has improved under the WSL in terms of how it is presented to the public. Of course you have to cut through the cheese but the delivery and production has been really good the last few years.

There will always be questionable judging decisions especially in the real ocean but that Griff/Italo decision still leaves me baffled. It was just so obvious that Italo won and I can't find anything on the contrary.

Like Lewis Hamilton said ‘the results been manipulated man‘.

Motivation, experience & the best equipment can get results.... in theory

It seems to me that in this particular wave pool that judging could be done with a well written algorithm, using the footage,
Therefore no arguments against shitty judging,?

Italo has been underscored all year. The air at Margie's? Must have rooted someone's missus or something.

Surfing is screaming out for progression IMO and it should be rewarded. Then again, who cares? Go watch YouTube surfers, they're heaps more entertaining.

The heat between Medina and Chianca at WA this year showed how aggressive and in your face Brazilian pros are. Those two were virtually fist fighting in the water as they tried to paddle over each other. I think the only reason no one got an interference is that they were both doing it as bad as each other.
The statement below is a generalization and not all Brazilian pros are like this but......
Brazilian Pro Surfing mentality = Win at ANY cost. Sell your Grandma if you need to. Just make sure you win as that's the only thing that matters in life.

Medina V Chianca
https://www.worldsurfleague.com/posts/515388/margaret-river-pro-mens-sem...

As another person so elegantly wrote yesterday. They will eat their own just as quickly.

Well said , I agree 100%.
I Didn’t watch a single heat until the final.
Watched it on my own with no reference of past heats. I walked away at the end stunned that Italo didn’t get the win.
I was confused and I’m a fan.

Well the drama is good for click bait and articles to get the readers fired up and discussing.

This is article number 4? On a comp that no one cared about? And FR was going to sum it up in 1 article only, as anything more was unnecessary?

Brazilian storm in a teacup. Gabe and Italo have been massively overscored for years, as the 6 out of 8 world titles would attest. Now and then it doesn't go their way and the make it this stupid rest-of-the-world is against us garbage. Suck it up princesses, no doubt your turn is coming again soon in Rio - and at two-foot Trestles.

The Brazzo's have had their balls been tickled by the WSL for years ...its a nice change to see the "rub of the green" go against them for a change...Enjoy your win Griff you deserved it!

Like Zen I think they've done well with the presentation.

I'll always favour style, however the right in the replay I thought Italo was doing manoeuvres faster, more critical, in the tube longer and did so with style and flow.

OK the Margs airs - when you use the whole wave to go straight to set up a huge air reverse on the dangerous end section, do you really use the wave to it's potential? I can see an underscore on that one, and thought it was a bit of a hail Mary to get an awe imposing single move score at the time. He later did an air on the left, which was functional and connected multiple turns on the wave too - I'd judge that one higher, ironically! Here, the wave was used to it's potential.

There's been a pushback as the huge air reverses were used to win heats reminiscent of 'points per move'. I like the emphasis on style and flow and reckon this is relatable to most of us. There's also an emphasis on how much you can commit the rail, that speaks to Aussie power surfing and JJF is the master of this.

"Griff's wave was very simply surfed with very little variety and progression."

Where do you guys get the idea that any of the Pros are surfing in a simple way?
Surfing with such speed, power and grace is NOT simple at all.
Why is Ethan Ewing most pro surfer's favorite surfer? Because he can do amazing things with style, grace and flow which is NOT simple at all.
Same thing happened with Parko who was usually underscored because he made difficult things look simple/easy.

"Woz released on the eve of the comp. In detail, Porta explained judges were “looking for turns that are going to separate the elite from the middle of the pack,” and that the key to high scores would be, “variety, powerful surfing, no mistakes and utilising all the sections,” as well as, “disappearing in the barrel for as long as you can be”."

Looks like they didn't play to this script. Italo showed much more variation and longer tube rides..

This year was always going to be USA VS AUS. Two new wholesome golden boys Griff & Jack. The bad boys from Brazil have had their day. Scripted on the desk of the billionaire who owns the WSL.

ELo has written a chastising reply to Gab on the Woz site….

""However, it is unacceptable for any athlete to question the integrity of our judges who … are elite professionals."

WSL is great entertainment, bad response though IMO.

The judges could have penned their decision for all to read being that is clearly a very controversial.

When Gabe, Italo and Felipe were getting >8.5 or >9 for a take-off + two speed pumps + close-out air reverse a couple of years back it got pretty boring, stale and one-dimensional

I welcome the effort to try and re-emphasise flow etc and generally I think it’s freshened things up

Maybe the pendulum has swung back too far - I’m not sure, I would say generally no …

I do agree with the consensus, that given the judging criteria and narrative italo was underscored on this occasion and I think he and others should be free to call this out

I also agree that the WSL top brass are cowardly in the way they go silent and hide whenever they’ve a mistake is made … or worse try to bury the mistake in endless corpo-speak and toxic positivity

Where I feel differently to most is on the net effect of WSL involvement - as a life long free surfer who never really competed at all, I still I find elite comp surfing interesting and entertaining to follow.

When the surf brands stepped back and the WSL/ziff family stepped in … they rescued pro-surfing … without them we would have nothing like the quality we have available now and it’s cost them millions. I buy the ziff’s motivational narrative - that they fell in love with the act and spectacle of surfing. I think it’s reasonable that they want a. Break even or reasonable return in capital financial return. I don’t like the cheese and understand the push-back against growth in or wave-linited sport, but II think their net contribution has been positive. I also think the meritorious elements of the anti growth argument often seem to get extended and twisted here and elsewhere into a small minded ‘only for me, my friends, my locality’ mindset that I can’t abide. Having loved the experience of surfing my entire life, it makes me so happy to see another person get tuned into the same joyful ride I have been so incredibly lucky to catch

I think you’ll see the judging pendulum swing back to centre over coming events as part of a natural refinement and improvement process and guess we’ll all have something to say regardless

Thanks alk

Guideline:

as well as, “disappearing in the barrel for as long as you can be”.

"Both Porta and Kelly Slater (during the nightsurf session) claimed that turns into the barrel - Slater called them “dramatic entries” - were also highly favoured by judges."

Italo had an extra long tube on his first right and the entry into the second barrel straight out of an off the top was fairly dramatic. Dynamic turns in between. He did what was asked. I thought his first wave was also underscored based on the above.

But a really long barrel at the pool is actually a bit boring to the viewer (and judges) whereas in the ocean, for the surfer, there is the amazement that in all the randomness of swell and bathymetry, mother nature managed to create sustained perfection for 5 or 10 fleeting seconds. Like a monkey somehow painting the Mona Lisa - you go "wow" at the rarity and unexpectedness of the event !

So, judges may say they score barrels highly at the pool, but human nature takes hold watching the unexciting nose of a surfboard poking out of a predictable tube for a long time and they underscore it.

I agree with BL. Sometimes you can't compare live judging to watching the camera work at home.

I agree with BL. Sometimes you can't compare live judging to watching the camera work at home.

I find the scoring system in surfing pretty intriguing, not the scores themselves but what the ‘sport’ claims to consider in an attempt to objectively justify their decision.

The criteria is speed, power, flow, variety, major manoeuvres in critical sections (am I missing any?).
But they speak about the ‘criteria’ as though it’s some kind of objective rubric.

In reality you’ve got half a dozen blokes watching a 5sec- 1 min performance and in a manner of a couple of minutes have to spit out a number. There’s no way they can self compute numbers against their so called criteria.

I believe it’s probably more of an instinctual ‘feel’ sort of a process. All of us life long surfers and watchers of pro surfing can have a crack at it and most circumstances get within a point of the professional judges. As the saying goes, ‘you don’t have to be a baker to know the bread tastes good’.

I reckon most of us would be happier if Pritamo came out and just said ‘it was the vibe’ or ‘she ripped harder’, cause that’s all it is really.

There’s many layers of context and unconscious bias in each decision to go with which surfer appeared to wiggle the most / biggest at first glance.

It’s no one’s fault. It’s just the vibe…..

Is there a waft of LIV surfing in the air?....Kelly might be the man to take it back to a dream tour

Come on now, all three Brazilians have plenty of examples whereby they benefited form dodgy scores form judges. But crickets form you lot. They continue to exhibit pure poor sportsmanship and bad behaviour when they don't get their way. They need to pull their heads in, like a lot of surf fans.
Like all professional sports athletes should be held to account for their actions, and with Medina, fuck me of all people, wrote that open letter garbage he has fueled the tin foil hat brigade so prevalent in surfing and now we have Ethan receiving death threats from "passionate' sic lunatic Brazilians surf fans.
Absolute beat up of a story.

Can someone please enlighten me on what Medina has said compared to what Joel Tudor said about the lack of longboarding events put on by the WSL, which subsequently got him immediately banned (and probably still is banned?).

IMO Medina off his own back has brought the 'pinnacle' of professional surfing into disrepute, however there has been no fine, ban or action from the WSL?

I think he said ‘meu cachorro nao sabe surfa‘.

But my Portuguese is a little rusty.

Let's face it the Brazzo's are radical but there style is unpleasant to watch.
Ethan compared to Medina on a wave is like chalk and cheese.
Ethan all style, grace and power, Medina surfs like a meth head on his last wave before going to prison. The claiming is just obnoxious and points should be deducted.

I like the Ranch comp, at least when the cream rises to the top. The Ranch is a different competition, with a set amount of waves, therefore requires a different judging criteria, which would include "risk". When Gabriel (vs Ethan) takes to the air three times on one wave and Ethan takes to the air zero times, the score must be at least 1.5 points more for the three risky airs.

Then there is the judging scores. The judges at the Ranch simply handed out too many 8+ point rides. 8 points means "excellent".

Judging scale:
[0.0 — 1.9: Poor]
[2.0 — 4.9: Fair]
[5.0 — 6.4: Good]
[6.5 — 7.9: Very Good]
[8.0 — 10.0: Excellent]

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"If you can't get a comprehensible judging criteria happening at a repeatable man-made wave then you don't have a sport. You have an advertisement for a wave pool". Loved this.. the key is all here.

Have The Brazilians Got Legitimate Beef?
hmmm you may have to ask their Girlfriends that personal question...lol
My grammar is terrible but shouldn't there be an {a} in that sentence so my mind does not have to think about what the Brazilians have under their boardshorts? ..lol
Have the Brazilians got (a) Legitimate Beef?

Think that's how it's used in the King's English.
'i say Camilla darling I've got a legitimate beef'

Haha you two! Thats gold

'Oh Charles darling, I fancy a bit of Spotted Dick to go with my Yorkshire Pudding'.

'Coming Matron'.

Practically writes itself.

Glad we resurrected this forum to something more sane and reasonable. hahaha

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Pretty hard to argue with that comparison.

Stamos will find a way no doubt.

probably should adjust the first line from very few surfers give a shit about professional surfing to
- very few older surfers few surfers give a shit about professional surfing and the younger ones mostly only watch if their addicted to screen time. Which brings me to my next point; being there live EE and GC's waves looked better than the Storms's.....but watching the filmed replays I see why the debate is on and why Medina feels the need to make that statement the way he did. The odd run of getting dudded on scores though is across the board and been happening indiscriminately ? since Taj v Kelly heats.

Brazilians fairly regularly overscored imho. I often wonder if the judges are worried about the garbage carry on. Gymnastic tricks are not necessarily progressive surfing. I respect we all have subjective likes and thank god for that, but to me the flippin and spinning is generally a bit boring. Wish I could do it but watching is so ho-hum to me. I think Ewing beat Medina. I do think Italos right was surfed with serious style and power and was at least 0.5 points ahead of Griffs. Understand why he felt he won. Overall actually enjoyed some of the pool surfing for once.

When the waves are almost identical, one remarkable difference is Italo's death-stare theatrics on every wave that he manages to complete. When he - and other surfers with that entitled mindset - all but demand the points with their greedy claims, it must negatively influence the judges.

It seems to me that there is an unspoken criteria of good-sportspersonship: Maybe only a point in it, but those petulant competitors are penalising themselves over and over again.

The judges should just articulate it: If you demand the points in an ugly, unsportspersonship display that is bad for business - then you're not going to get them.

Brazilians all need to realise ..Just because you do the most fanatical passionate claims doesn’t mean you won..

.

Or maybe the judges are just scoring good SUP surfing for some reason now.

Who would be influencing that ,I wonder.

How many surfers have been dudded in heats from the judges over scoring Medina, Toledo and Italo's Favela spins (Air Reverse) Didn't hear any pissing and moaning coming from the Brazzo's then!!

Pay per view alternative tour. C'mon Kelly.

As we are probably all aware, watching surfing live with the naked eye is quite different to watching it on TV.
The judges are expected to give a score as soon as possible after each wave, so quite often, turns that looks big to huge live may look a bit underwhelming on TV replays and this is why I believe Ethan got the nod over Gabey.
With Grif and Italo, the judges have come to expect Italo going to the air so it's a bit ho hum nowadays when he does it (not that it makes it less dynamic, just predictable), they see a point of difference with Grif's surfing and probably award him accordingly.
I personally think both heats were close and wasn't that surprised with either outcome.
One thing is for sure, WSL have got extra mileage out of the whole show with all the talk on social media !
How do the say...........even bad publicity is good publicity !!

There is no question that both surfers smashed it, they both surfed extremely well and so it comes down to a super tiny focus points. My son and I watched it over and over and broke it down, we spent ages on each turn comparatively. At the end of that my son gave it to Italo and I gave it to Griff. My rationale is that Griff takes the bottom turn deeper with more top end power from that line, Italo has more speed and keeps his speed by pulling it from a slightly (very slightly) lower bottom turn and generates whipping speed. I felt Griff had the edge, same with Medina and Ethan, no question both surfed beyond excellent and it was no surprise it came down to more or less a draw.
Do I think that I am right, no way! guess what's? its an opinion and this is a judged sport and trying to elicit absolute exactness with it is folly.
Its like cricket, its is not if you are actually out, it is 'does the umpire think you are out', then they started using technology and cameras to rule out the mistakes, but guess what, that still leads to controversy and confusion and yet cricket is clearer and easier to umpire than surfing, as its a game based purely on rules.
Surfing is more like judging art work and what do we think is better, remember it used to be longest ride and most turns, which has kind of snuck back with the wave pool. In most other locations 2 massive hacks or one air can win, and letting the wave go unridden for a hundred meters will score better than riding the entire wave. As non-competitive surfers we would judge that as heresy, imagine going too hard to impress someone and then leaving miles of perfect face?? shocking behaviour, but in the wave pool we are seeing judging for not completing the wave now??
My son and I really like Gab, we surfed with him at Bells one year when we were out there and some pros came out, he's a great guy and was super nice, I have no preference on who wins, sure I am an Aussie and so sometimes find it hard to be objective, but I think the wave pool is the hardest to judge.
Perhaps we should give more credit to those people who do this professionally regularly, the judges, perhaps they are a bit more skilled sometimes.
What is NOT okay is threatening the surfers lives, that is NOT on!

Someone hand out the violins , Ethan beat Gabe on the second run . Pity there wasn't an Italo dummy spit the bloke carries on kind a pork chop .

Is Italo’s style even worse free surfing? Seriously, this is awful
https://fb.watch/kZh0GkDk3f/?mibextid=5Ufylb

So, no word still from judges and co on break down of the scores in question?