Fatal shark attack near Ballina

Stu Nettle picture
Stu Nettle (stunet)
Swellnet Dispatch

screen_shot_2015-02-10_at_8.25.23_am.pngA surfer has been killed in a shark attack at Shelly Beach near Ballina this morning. It is understood the man lost both of his legs in the attack. 

The victim was Tadashi Nakahara, a Japanese national who'd lived in Australia for a year working as a distributor at Ballina-based Webster Surfboards.

The attack reportedly happened just 10 meters from shore as Nakahara sat on hs board. Three young surfers pulled Nakahara from the water before help arrived. Surfers in the water at the time said they saw the shadow of the shark and estimated it to be 3.5m-4m long.

Today's incident follows a shark attack yesterday at Seven Mile Beach between Lennox Head and near Broken Head. In that incident a 35-year-old Byron Bay local was sitting on his surfboard when he was "attacked".

The surfer drove himself to Byron District Hospital before being transferred to Gold Coast University Hospital where he remains in a stable condition with puncture wounds to his back and buttocks.

Police have closed all beaches from South Ballina to Lennox Head. All swimmers and surfers have been ordered out of the water.

Updated 6:30pm 09/02

Comments

freeride76's picture
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freeride76 Monday, 9 Feb 2015 at 11:14am

There's also devastating news about the bloke who went headfirst into the Wreck last week during the TC Ola swell.
He had his life support switched off on the weekend.
RIP Ian Harrison.

Craig's picture
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Craig Monday, 9 Feb 2015 at 11:19am

Wow, really sad :(

seaman-staines's picture
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seaman-staines Monday, 9 Feb 2015 at 11:24am

I hadn't heard about that one, sad news, you just don't know when it can happen. RIP.

Zoooming's picture
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Zoooming Tuesday, 10 Feb 2015 at 10:13am

I hope that's not Brian Harrison's son? Brian passed away while surfing on Christmas day a year ago.

donweather's picture
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donweather Monday, 9 Feb 2015 at 11:20am

The above is way to close to home for you Steve!!!

RIP to both individuals.

seaman-staines's picture
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seaman-staines Monday, 9 Feb 2015 at 11:28am

As for these shark attacks, really what is going on? That stretch of coast must be challenging WA as the most dangerous.

freeride76's picture
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freeride76 Monday, 9 Feb 2015 at 11:29am

I've seen so many fishing lately. It's been spooking me big time.

seaman-staines's picture
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seaman-staines Monday, 9 Feb 2015 at 11:44am

I've always felt spooked down your way, so alive. What have you been seeing? Whites, Tigers, Bulls or all of the above?

goofyfoot's picture
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goofyfoot Monday, 9 Feb 2015 at 12:07pm

What type have you been seeing?

udo's picture
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udo Monday, 9 Feb 2015 at 11:40am

RIP to both.

udo's picture
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udo Monday, 9 Feb 2015 at 11:46am

Fuck this is getting out of hand..every surf break between Tweed and Newcastle has had a sighting..not small sharks either......Baddy Treloar was on ABC radio a few weeks back warning surfers about a 4 mtr GWS hanging around his area !

eat-your-vegies's picture
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eat-your-vegies Monday, 16 Feb 2015 at 10:54am
udo wrote:

Fuck this is getting out of hand..every surf break between Tweed and Newcastle has had a sighting..not small sharks either......Baddy Treloar was on ABC radio a few weeks back warning surfers about a 4 mtr GWS hanging around his area !

LOL baddy warning surfers about a shark hanging round the point.

that old chestnut

the classics are always the best.

hope it worked for you mate. (not last time I looked LOL)

seaman-staines's picture
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seaman-staines Monday, 9 Feb 2015 at 11:48am

Just read that it took off his legs, so it's a big one.

Blowin's picture
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Blowin Monday, 9 Feb 2015 at 11:53am

Another guy died surfing Smiths in WA as well. Second in twelve months. Not shark related.

50young's picture
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50young Monday, 9 Feb 2015 at 11:55am

couple on the Goldy of late as well!! RIP

mk1's picture
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mk1 Monday, 9 Feb 2015 at 11:57am

RIP.

3.5-4m - a little too big for a bull shark but its too warm for a GWS - Tiger? (just hypothesizing)

Wonder if it was the same shark, be interesting to hear about the 7mile attack and estimate of its size.

seaman-staines's picture
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seaman-staines Monday, 9 Feb 2015 at 11:59am

I read that the victim at 7 mile thought it was about 2.0 metres, he managed to drive to the hospital, still was an ugly looking wound.

udo's picture
udo's picture
udo Monday, 9 Feb 2015 at 12:02pm

Nah not to warm for a GWS.

Blowin's picture
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Blowin Monday, 9 Feb 2015 at 11:59am

Stand up or lid ?

Tim Bonython's picture
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Tim Bonython Monday, 9 Feb 2015 at 11:59am

Probably heaps of bait fish in the area. Condolences go out to his buddies & family members. The guys who pulled him out deserve to be commended for there bravery..
RIP

udo's picture
udo's picture
udo Monday, 9 Feb 2015 at 12:00pm

Mr Reitman who survived yesterdays attack at Byron is a wearer of Sharkbanz......but didn't have one on yesterday........radio interview with him this morning he hinted that he may have not been attacked had he been wearing it.

Fellow surfers please do not think you are safe from an attack wearing these type of devices.

Blowin's picture
Blowin's picture
Blowin Monday, 9 Feb 2015 at 12:06pm

I'd like to see a pointer try and get me while I've got my power balance bracelet on ! Boy, he'd be in for a surprise !

mk1's picture
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mk1 Monday, 9 Feb 2015 at 12:07pm

S.S. just saw that: 2-3m, so two serious attacks unrelated a day and ~15km apart - whats the chances of that!

I saw he liked surfing 7mile at dawn, that's sharky at the best of times!

Udo - I was under the impression the GWs migrated north during whale season and back south with them, but I understand a few may not always follow this pattern (nursing in newcastle is one area)???

udo's picture
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udo Monday, 9 Feb 2015 at 1:04pm

mk1, I had always been under the same impression.....the Byron attack before xmas in warm water and the most recent sightings on the far nth coast all by credible witnesses, fisherman ,trawler owners etc......that aerial shot of that fucking thing just after the Byron attack still hovering close to the shoreline......most of the GWS spotted seem to be in the 4mtr range and within a 2k from shore

EDIT: last Byron fatal was in Sept so still in whale season.

mk1's picture
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mk1 Monday, 9 Feb 2015 at 12:41pm

The last of the whales are still heading south in November so I put the other attack down to a straggler. But if the fishos and trawlers are still seeing whites then there goes my little theory.

zenagain's picture
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zenagain Monday, 9 Feb 2015 at 12:14pm

Sad news.

RIP fellas.

Sincere condolences to both families.

Sheepdog's picture
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Sheepdog Monday, 9 Feb 2015 at 12:59pm

I second that, Zen...... A sad day......

freeride76's picture
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freeride76 Monday, 9 Feb 2015 at 12:28pm

I've seen mostly chunky whalers in the 5-8ft range. Plenty chunky enough to go you.
But this one sounds like a tiger.
There's been heaps of rays and turtles around, both of which are a tigers favourite prey.

50young's picture
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50young Monday, 9 Feb 2015 at 12:31pm

Rescuers are saying GW

mundies's picture
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mundies Monday, 9 Feb 2015 at 12:59pm

Mate of mine was surfing 300m down the beach at the time, spoke to one of the rescuers. Big shark. Apparently a big tiger shark has been seen hanging around recently...

evosurfer's picture
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evosurfer Monday, 9 Feb 2015 at 1:00pm

I have been surfing for over 40yrs nearly everyday there is surf and in the last 5 or 6yrs
I have never seen or heard of more credible shark sightings and there is a big one right
here as well around some of the more exposed surf reefs that keeps popping up.
RIP to those guys that's sad and heavy.

caml's picture
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caml Monday, 9 Feb 2015 at 1:06pm

im guessing that theories that were relevant in the past will be obsolete now that these fish have come back from the endangered numbers to soon to be plague proportions . warm water or times of year )

freeride76's picture
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freeride76 Monday, 9 Feb 2015 at 1:08pm

10 am. Bright sunny still morning.

Water fairly clear.

You wouldn't peg it as a day to get bitten.

Craig's picture
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Craig Monday, 9 Feb 2015 at 1:09pm

Similar clear conditions to the day the guy got taken at Clarkes?

Rabbits68's picture
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Rabbits68 Monday, 9 Feb 2015 at 2:15pm

And at Wedge WA.....

RIP to all those surf related deaths of recent times........

Sobering reminder for all...

freeride76's picture
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freeride76 Monday, 9 Feb 2015 at 1:11pm

Sort of. I mean we've had average rainfall this summer but the EAC has been pushing warm clear blue water into the coast.

There's been dirty water coming out of the river on outgoing tides but this was four hours into the incoming tide. Water was clear.

bluem00n's picture
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bluem00n Monday, 9 Feb 2015 at 1:39pm

I don't know what to think..

I was in the water of 7mile on Sunday @6am local, no clouds, crystal water, light offshores - all round perfect.. it got busy around 7ish and it seemed some (grom) comp? was setting up on the beach as loads more turned up.. i saw small kids < 5yrs having a surf lesson with dad in the white water.. i get home and wow, and again this morning... i know those waters are fin-fested but the shrks (in my experience) always kept to the headlands.. I can't help but think something is changing (has changed?) I don't recall this level of shark activity that has occurred on the east coast in recent times.. Thoughts?

I should mention in early Jan I had my closest call when a shark cruised within 20m of me, going south in no hurry, the fin cutting the calm surface water like a knife through butter - I was just nrth of Ballina at the time.. I reckoned if I was of interest he would't have been so visible, so on I surfed! Now I'm not so sure!

lostdoggy's picture
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lostdoggy Monday, 9 Feb 2015 at 4:03pm

Was the 7mile attack up near the broken head headland end rather than Lennox though?

ACB__'s picture
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ACB__ Monday, 9 Feb 2015 at 1:42pm

We got out of the water on Saturday morning surfing near seal rocks cause a Noah swam under one of my mates on a lid. The water was absolutely pristine and crystal clear so if they're attacking in these conditions the "mistaken identity" theory is bogus.

Just had to get back in about 10 mins later cause the surf was just too good!

mibs-oner's picture
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mibs-oner Monday, 9 Feb 2015 at 10:32pm

You have a mate who rides a lid?

ACB__'s picture
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ACB__ Tuesday, 10 Feb 2015 at 9:41am

chances of being nubbed reduced by 50%

freeride76's picture
freeride76's picture
freeride76 Monday, 9 Feb 2015 at 1:47pm

These Taronga Park recommendations seem about as useful as tits on a bull.

The following safety points should be considered and may help minimise the risk:

Swim at beaches patrolled by Surf Life Savers (they are there to keep an eye on your safety, to look for signs of danger and to assist if you get into trouble).
Do not swim, dive or surf where dangerous sharks are known to congregate.
Always swim, dive or surf with other people (the presence of a companion may deter a potentially attack and your companion can assist you if you get into trouble or are bitten by a shark).
Do not swim in dirty or turbid water (there is little chance of seeing a shark in these conditions).
Avoid swimming at dusk, dawn or at night (many sharks are more active during these times and in low light conditions you may not be able to see an approaching shark).
Avoid swimming well offshore, near deep channels or along drop-offs to deeper water (sharks are more likely to inhabit the deeper water).
Avoid entering the ocean near a river mouth, especially after a rainstorm (rain can wash potential food items into the sea that might attract fish and sharks).
If schooling fish congregate in large numbers, leave the water (sharks can be feeding on the baitfish schools).
Do not swim near people fishing or spear fishing (as these activities can attract sharks).
Dolphins in the area do not indicate the absence of sharks (dolphins and sharks sometimes feed together and some sharks feed on dolphins).
Kayaker should raft up together if a large shark is seen in the area (this makes for a larger object that a shark may not be interested in).
Do not swim with pets and domestic animals (sharks can be attracted to non-aquatic animals in the water).
Look carefully before jumping into the water from a boat or wharf (people have jumped on top of sharks).
Be careful wading through shallow water as Wobbegong sharks are known to hide amongst the kelp in shallow water and it is easy to accidently step on one and get bitten without knowing it was there.
Wearing shiny jewellery can reflect light that resembles the sheen of fish scales (sharks can be attracted to the reflected light).
If a shark is sighted in the area leave the water as quickly and calmly as possible.

Blowin's picture
Blowin's picture
Blowin Monday, 9 Feb 2015 at 1:48pm

Who proposed the theory of mistaken attacks initially ? Based on the supposition that if sharks predated humans then there would be more attacks than actually occur.

Let's see them jump in with the pointers at the Neptune Islands sans cage then.

freeride76's picture
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freeride76 Monday, 9 Feb 2015 at 1:50pm

Seems like the truth is more along the lines that a shark is an apex opportunistic predator that is continually scouring it's environment seeking prey items.

mk1's picture
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mk1 Monday, 9 Feb 2015 at 1:56pm

FR - that dawn and dusk one is very questionable. It seems like 10am is feeding time yet the dawn and arvo shifts are normally more crowded than the mid-morning in my experience.

Blowin - mistaken identity, I always thought this came from the attacks by bull sharks in murky water in eastern US states. I didn't think it was a factor in GWS attacks though.

ACB__'s picture
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ACB__ Monday, 9 Feb 2015 at 1:58pm

I don't know about you but I'm a lot less picky about what I eat when I'm hungry.

I assume sharks are the same.

mk1's picture
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mk1 Monday, 9 Feb 2015 at 2:01pm

I dunno ACB, the water is teeming on the tweed right now.

kaiser's picture
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kaiser Monday, 9 Feb 2015 at 2:07pm

I'm sure the mistaken identity theory is born out of the fact that nearly everybody gets bitten but not devoured. As we have seen though, the feeding habit of sharks on bigger prey is to bite and then follow the prey waiting for it to bleed out. Obviously if we get the people out of the water, the sharks never get that chance.

It doesn't really matter if this is the same shark or not. They are definitely developing a feeding habit based on familiarity with humans. They associate us with food.
If it is the same shark, it is a rogue that needs to be removed from the equation.

Hope all of this increases the conversation about how much we should interact with them, and the importance of finding a reliable deterrent, based on science.

Sincere condolences to family of victim, and the guy at the wreck. We have the pure enjoyment of the activity and to a certain extent know the risks, but imagine being at home or on the beach and told your life partner/ son etc is gone. All because he went for a surf.

Rabbits68's picture
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Rabbits68 Monday, 9 Feb 2015 at 2:24pm

Kaiser if "they associate us with food" then why are attacks on humans so rare comparitive to the numbers of humans on beaches around the world everyday?? I think GW would associate all things of human size flapping around in the ocean as "potential" food but humans becoming a main dietary requirement is still a radical claim IMO (not saying your making that claim)....

kaiser's picture
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kaiser Monday, 9 Feb 2015 at 3:43pm

Hey Rabbits,

I agree with FR's assertion that they are opportunistic. They also need to be hungry to decide to eat - I don't reckon they gorge themselves like humans (tigers and bulls maybe an exception to this). They are very in tune with what they need to do to survive. Like any apex predator, it would be to catch the prey that yields the most nourishment from the lowest energy output. This could explain why they take a bite and stand back. Why exert extra energy by fighting and thrashing, therefore requiring more food sooner, when if they wait it will just die by itself after the initial attack?

Now I'm no marine scientist, but I think they go through feeding patterns which could help explain attacks soon after dolphins have been through the area. If they are skulking dolphins, maybe they're in a surface hunting pattern and we fit in with that. Maybe some sharks feed mostly on surface while others mostly in deeper water? Maybe they try different patterns and repeat the ones that succeeded in the past? If that's the case, then there's plenty of argument in favour of taking one out if it bit a human.

Certainly humans are not a dietary requirement, but if they're in need of a feed and you happen to be in their path, your number could well be up.

Rabbits68's picture
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Rabbits68 Monday, 9 Feb 2015 at 4:30pm

Kaiser I Agree that some or all of your theories can't be disputed. The learning continues, hopefully to a point where we understand what is going on sooner rather than later......cheers

Blowin's picture
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Blowin Monday, 9 Feb 2015 at 2:13pm

Freeride, I'd say those suggestions are reasonable. As shown by today's events attacks occur at any time but these tips would take a few contributing factors out of the equation.

freeride76's picture
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freeride76 Monday, 9 Feb 2015 at 3:08pm

Problem is those tips might be useless at best and misleading at worst.

Seems the fatal attacks are coming mid-late morning which may be the most dangerous time for big sharks.
Like Camel said they might need to completely re-think those based on the facts of when and where attacks are occurring.

I note SMH has linked to the Taronga recommendations.

http://www.smh.com.au/environment/animals/man-dies-after-shark-attack-at...

Rodzo's picture
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Rodzo Monday, 9 Feb 2015 at 2:43pm

Cant help thinking the Shark Cage Diving tourist industry are naively training certain species of sharks to have a fascination with humans. Something they take with them wherever they go. In the case of GWS that would be across many oceans.
Problem is not every human they come across has a cage around them.

turtle1's picture
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turtle1 Monday, 9 Feb 2015 at 9:17pm
Rodzo wrote:

Cant help thinking the Shark Cage Diving tourist industry are naively training certain species of sharks to have a fascination with humans. Something they take with them wherever they go. In the case of GWS that would be across many oceans.
Problem is not every human they come across has a cage around them.

Massive increase in popularity of burlying practice by recreational fisherman and shark tourism operators could have some sort of effect on shark behaviour and associations with food. Can't help but be curious.

udo's picture
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udo Monday, 9 Feb 2015 at 3:03pm

ABC have a story on tiger sharks, they tagged a tiger in Sydney ,48 days and 1800k later it shows up in New Caledonia....didn't know tigers travelled ?

udo's picture
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udo Monday, 9 Feb 2015 at 3:05pm

Todays fatal was a Japanese chap .

southey's picture
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southey Monday, 9 Feb 2015 at 3:14pm

I'm tipping that this won't be good for tourism , if and when it reaches Japan ......

freeride76's picture
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freeride76 Monday, 9 Feb 2015 at 3:06pm

Japanese chap who is involved with a local surfer-shaper.
Left behind a wife and kid.

southey's picture
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southey Monday, 9 Feb 2015 at 3:09pm

Stu , if you put a link into that thread/ discussion we had a year or two back when Kent Stannard joined the discussion .

Guys ,
This is nothing now , most of the " recent " attacks ( last 10-15 years ) on the East coast have been sharks GWS ? in around the 3-4 M mark . There has been a population explosion as seen around Stockton of alot of sharks in the 2M range , All of this tends to match well with the increasing Whale numbers , but more so of the ban / sever limitation of commercial fishing in the Port Albert region of Victoria .
So as others have pointed out a miracle cure is sort ( although short of carrying a hand held powerhead ) i tend to think , only luck is going to stop a GWS bigger than 4M doing enough damage to be lethal once it decides its going to come in for a taste ........
Imagine what it'll be like once this explosion of 2M species reaches maturity , shame on those that were paying out on SWA surfers concerns . And yes considering the number that enter the water every day in NSW and QLD , then this is only the tip of the iceberg ...
Maybe a few people in the next decade will be re-assessing their love of the abundance of migrating whales and protecting so many species within the food chain , but going bezerk on others ...... SNAGS eat cans of Tuna ???
The problem with Nature is Humans are foreign to it , and the reality of how BRUTAL nature is , seems to be foreign to so many of its supporters .

Condolences to the friends and families involved , now and in the near Future .

stunet's picture
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stunet Monday, 9 Feb 2015 at 3:21pm

Think this is it Southey:

Sharks in Western Australia: Where to from here?

Lot of great info from Kent, known as 'whiteshark' in the thread. One day soon I'll distill all that info into a point form article.

Blowin's picture
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Blowin Monday, 9 Feb 2015 at 3:26pm

Department of fisheries says that there is no evidence of an increase in large predatory sharks on the East coast ....except I suppose for all the sightings and an exponential increase in attacks.

Do these dickheads need all the Noah's to form an orderly line to be counted ? Only a scientist witnessing a shark can be classified as empirical I guess.

seaman-staines's picture
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seaman-staines Monday, 9 Feb 2015 at 3:46pm

So what they are saying is that protecting them hasn't increased their population, in that case it might be time to dust off the wire trace and wet a line then.

How long can they keep saying it's everything but an increase in population that is to blame? I am one who can't fathom the inordinate amount of respect given to these fish when most people are happy to much on a fresh piece of tuna without so much as a thought given to that chunk of muscles untimely end. I know it's all cool to be a shark lover but I've always been uncool anyway.

If we have the ability to take care of a problem but we don't do it because we have evolved to the point of being guilt riddled soft cocks walking around justifying what we would class as unacceptable behaviour (try eating a human at your local shopping mall) in our society. We are the apex predator, this has ensured our survival, all species have their survival as number one priority, but in the case of humans we may be at the start of a period of devolution.

Unless you are a vegan I don't think you have any right to state killing a shark is wrong.

quokka's picture
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quokka Monday, 9 Feb 2015 at 5:05pm

Right-on SS. This is exactly what I've been saying, we are the only ones who can control a population of sharks as usually they don't have predators. Killing a shark is no different to banging a blowie to death on the jetty...it's still killing a fish.

Rabbits68's picture
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Rabbits68 Monday, 9 Feb 2015 at 6:03pm

Killing an apex preditor, right or wrong, is different to banging a blowie to death on a jetty.....

quokka's picture
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quokka Monday, 9 Feb 2015 at 6:10pm

How so?

Rabbits68's picture
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Rabbits68 Monday, 9 Feb 2015 at 6:30pm

Do yourself a favour & research apex predator & you will learn "how so"...

quokka's picture
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quokka Monday, 9 Feb 2015 at 6:33pm

The GWS takes a lot more banging?

Rabbits68's picture
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Rabbits68 Monday, 9 Feb 2015 at 6:38pm

Smarter than average quokka. My apologies :-)

uncle_leroy's picture
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uncle_leroy Monday, 9 Feb 2015 at 7:25pm
Blowin wrote:

Department of fisheries - Do these dickheads need all the Noah's to form an orderly line to be counted ? Only a scientist witnessing a shark can be classified as empirical I guess.

Well they can't count the number of grey nurses around but still continue to lock up and lock out recreational fishers and tourists to small coastal towns so i guess they need all the help they can get.

Also pretty pissed off with amnesty thay was introduced to allow fishing within marine parks after the creation of the parks was deemed illegal through the Courts, which was overturned after a 12 month period and we are now back to a world full of vegan hippies who wouldn't know a good feed of sustainable fish if it slapped them in the face!!

freeride76's picture
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freeride76 Monday, 9 Feb 2015 at 3:55pm

If this was mistaken identity it was a pretty brutal mistake:

From Robert Marcon

"Really horrifying to whitness on a day that wasnt sharky at all.The water was clean and there were quite a few guys out on a beautifull sunny offshore morning.The shark swam under my mate and smashed the guy next to him out of the water taking both legs off completely.Full credit to the guys that took him straight to the nearby shore line applied leg ropes and administed CPR untill the ambo's arrived .We are all deeply affected and devistated by the violent way our surfing comrade was taken. RIP MATE"

That sounds like a top order predator in full hunting mode.

seaman-staines's picture
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seaman-staines Monday, 9 Feb 2015 at 4:02pm

Yep that's a straight kill, how lucky is the guy it swam under feeling right now. Horrific. That could have been any one of us. I don't know if I could put my kids in that situation to be honest.

udo's picture
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udo Monday, 9 Feb 2015 at 4:10pm

One media mob is reporting the attack may have been caught on camera..i really fucking hope not....but with gopros on every second surfboard ....sooner or later a attack will be.

A chopper should have dispatched asap and that shark shot.

seaman-staines's picture
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seaman-staines Monday, 9 Feb 2015 at 4:13pm

For every attack caught on a GroPro there would have to be about a billion shots of a board being abandoned in front of someone riding a wave.

In all seriousness though, if it has been caught on film I hope it isn't on the market to the highest bidder. This Sydney siege profiteering is making me sick.

seaman-staines's picture
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seaman-staines Monday, 9 Feb 2015 at 4:18pm

And good luck with shooting the Shark without becoming a victim of misguided greeny hate. Remeber the guy at Piha in NZ, the local cop did just that, grabbed an assault rifle, jumped in an IRB and shot the shark, which at this point had the poor bloke locked firmly in it's jaws, and yet the copper was then subject to enormous criticism for shooting a fucking shark, let's not worry about the fact it had someones father halfway down it's throat.

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simba Monday, 9 Feb 2015 at 4:10pm

I will put money on it that its a white,story i heard was that it knocked him through the air minus legs to his hips,typical gws attack.Seems as though as has been stated above that the 10 to 2 middle of the day surf is danger time more so than dawn or dusk.yesterday was sitting out on my own in filthy water slowly freaking as a lull went on for 5 mins or more,couldnt see my feet, brain played tricks on me so after an hour went in,had a few but freaky.Any RIP brother and hope the guy attacked at lennox heals quick.

Yoelza's picture
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Yoelza Monday, 9 Feb 2015 at 4:30pm

Just throwing it out there but could humans over-fishing the oceans have anything to do with it??? those damned ecosystems!!!!!

Blowin's picture
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Blowin Monday, 9 Feb 2015 at 5:04pm

Got to be. Humans fish the oceans out and sharks expanding in number and size = trouble.

Wait a minute, how did the sharks multiply and get bigger without food ? Oh wait a minute, that doesn't make sense. Must be someway to make this the fault of the evil ( white ) man. Let me get back to you....

Yoelza's picture
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Yoelza Monday, 9 Feb 2015 at 6:19pm

What if the the sharks haven't multiplied but are looking for new food sources?

I didn't realise it was only white men that ate fish?
it's all speculation unless we can communicate with them somehow?

redlands001's picture
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redlands001 Monday, 9 Feb 2015 at 4:30pm

i have seen killer wales off Morton island in QLD so GWS will be with them also
they are after the humpbacks so its not about warm water its about food

udo's picture
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udo Monday, 9 Feb 2015 at 4:31pm

Whats the possibility of this GWS being a local ? maybe a hunting ground from Julien rocks to Byron shallows down to lennox, Ballina ? seems we really know fuck all about them.

mk1's picture
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mk1 Monday, 9 Feb 2015 at 4:31pm

Yoelza - no shortage of fish on the north coast this time of year in my opinion, FR?

udo's picture
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udo Monday, 9 Feb 2015 at 4:36pm

More feed for them this time of the year ...its all happening in the warm water not far offshore, hard work chasing down a feed when there is stationary ones.

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mk1 Monday, 9 Feb 2015 at 4:38pm

Redlands, you've seen whales/killer whales in Jan/Feb off Morton?? Very interesting.......

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nochaser Monday, 9 Feb 2015 at 4:38pm

I'll think you find there is another breeding population @ Brunswick Heads. Also how old it a big whitey, + the old whaling station at Byron would have ingrained it into the memory banks.
Heaps of turtles in Sydney at the moment every time i go surfing nearly kind of feel better with them around. (Unlike baitfish and dolphins)

RIP to surfer that passed.

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Blowin Monday, 9 Feb 2015 at 5:07pm

Tigers love turtles mate.

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mk1 Monday, 9 Feb 2015 at 4:44pm

GW breeding population at Brunswick? Not heard of that personally - anyone else?

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bluem00n Monday, 9 Feb 2015 at 4:54pm

None of it is making sense to me.

If there's plenty of feed why are they (assuming 2 different sharks) not going for the feed... noting crystal water and blue sky conditions should make it easy for the shark to identify known prey vs non-prey.. it's all challenging our notional understanding as to what is safe... I too trusted dusk/dawn, cloudy skies and the sun/moon alignment as factors of probability for when sharks would be hunting, all of which were polar opposite of the conditions during which the recent attacks occurred.. with another swell on the way and with crowds in the water, I only hope there is nothing else going on... I just hope the media act responsibly..

If it's the same shark, then fine, it's a bad apple exacerbating a bad name for the rest and we can all carry on, business as usual, knowing the risks are still slim.. (once the beast has moved on or is 'managed')..

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luked80 Monday, 9 Feb 2015 at 4:59pm

Was out at Speeds this morning around 6.45am till just before 8am.
A few schools of fish boiling up very close in.
But water was clear and there wasn't a sharky feel (unlike sometimes surfing near the Richmond breakwalls).
Wasn't what I've been conditioned to describe as high risk.

Around half a dozen guys when I first paddled out.
And maybe 15 when I went in.

There was also a pack of young nippers on their paddle boards, charging in and out from the new surf club at Lighthouse beach.

Surfed out there for about 3 hours on Sunday morning with about 30-40 others from the Shelly to Lighthouse stretch.

Sobering.

rees0's picture
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rees0 Monday, 9 Feb 2015 at 4:58pm

Breeding ground off brunswick heads??? do you have any prrof, evidence or facts? Oh that's right none of you do....

Here's a fact, we know fuck all about the hunting or breeding habits.

Another fact: We know fuck all about the population.

Amazing how everyone on the internet becomes an expert on matters they have no clue about.

Very emotional topic logic goes out the window ask yourself, Do i have any fucking idea what i'm talking about?

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Choco Monday, 9 Feb 2015 at 4:59pm

Doesn't appear that there are any rules to follow the Taronga recommendations are just common sense seen a few close up but more recently than any time in the last 40 years of surfing so something is changing either there is less for them to eat where they'd normally cruise or there are more of them all types I mean, that means more competition for an ever dwindling supply of fish if we are in their zone and they are hungry that is definitely a problem.

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mk1 Monday, 9 Feb 2015 at 5:06pm

Well I've spent a total of 5 minutes searching for info on GWs and brunswick and found no mention of a permanent pop'n (as expected). Just because their are sharks at Julien Rocks does not = GW breeding population. Unless someone has some info to the contrary...

Reeso - who are the plural "none of you" you are referring to?

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rees0 Monday, 9 Feb 2015 at 5:12pm

Well as far as i know the only person with any kind of factual information backed up by evidence and experience on this forum would be kent from whitetag so everybody else would be speculating.

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southey Monday, 9 Feb 2015 at 5:17pm

i can see this comments thread getting exponential .

reeso ,
did you read the thread that Stu linked too . occasionally some posters know some facts .
but as you say there aren't many facts .
Perhaps everyone needs to start to get around in " White Tag " clothing instead of drinking piss in foreign lands and wearing Mad Hueys gear ? hehe

Blowin's picture
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Blowin Monday, 9 Feb 2015 at 6:50pm

If you think you know more about the ocean than the Mad Hueys- then you're drunk. Austerity does not equate to knowledge. If it did then you could discount the opinions of 95 percent of commercial fishermen that know a shed load more than any given scientist regarding the actual workings and movements of their domain.

How many sharks have you been in the water with ?

uncle_leroy's picture
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uncle_leroy Monday, 9 Feb 2015 at 7:33pm
Blowin wrote:

the opinions of 95 percent of commercial fishermen that know a shed load more than any given scientist

Too true mate.
If you want to know anything going on at your local, head down to the marina or boat ramp and speak to the old salts that are on the water every day

rees0's picture
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rees0 Monday, 9 Feb 2015 at 7:13pm
southey wrote:

i can see this comments thread getting exponential .

reeso ,
did you read the thread that Stu linked too . occasionally some posters know some facts .
but as you say there aren't many facts .
Perhaps everyone needs to start to get around in " White Tag " clothing instead of drinking piss in foreign lands and wearing Mad Hueys gear ? hehe

Was starting to get a little crazy when darwins theory of devolution was presented. Much knowledge here and lots of respect for those that have devoted their lives to the ocean degrees don't equal experience.

Would very much like this to be the catalyst for some proper funding so our scientists can make some real progress. Perhaps if tourism looks like it may be affected the governing bodies will act another loss of life is tragic but a very real risk every time we go for a surf.
Sad news Regarding Ian Harrison may all our ocean going brethren stay safe and think of our fallen brothers family's.

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nochaser Monday, 9 Feb 2015 at 5:22pm

mk1 they didn't know about Stockton till blokes were catching them off the beach with game chairs on the bull bar of their 4wd.
We knew of the grounds for years.
Go out in a boat speak with locals. I'm not say that their is, but you MIGHT find from year round encounters.
The CSRIO have over 200 tagged where is the info I read somewhere the surf clubs get the info.

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robertmcrae Monday, 9 Feb 2015 at 5:22pm

Just found out my mate Too-darsh-a was the unlucky taken this morning.
RIP mate. I'll get a wave for you in the next few days.
See you in the afterlife...

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Blowin Monday, 9 Feb 2015 at 5:27pm

Rees0 they're fish mate. Fish eat things like every other living organism eat things. Sometimes it's opportunistic, some times it's mistaken identity. As for knowing fuck all, I reckon anyone that observes nature on a regular basis, especially the ocean can have a view point on the topic.

How many GWS scientists are there in Australia ? As your mate Kent says even the gun Pointer scientists work on other projects concurrently. So those dozen (?) scientists are on the water how many days a year ? And how many years experience do they have ?

Don't try to diminish the anecdotal or accumulated experiences of the community , that's the road to hubris.

mk1's picture
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mk1 Monday, 9 Feb 2015 at 5:28pm

Sorry to hear it Robert

nochaser - i'll keep that in the back of the memory banks if I ever hear of something similar.

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nochaser Monday, 9 Feb 2015 at 5:30pm

Mk1 Another region of WA as well.
This from MESA about pupping grounds, they know SFA.
The area in the Hunter is roughly 50KM's of coast line.
The Great Australian Bight, Victor Harbour to Coorong region (South Australia), areas off Portland and Ninety Mile Beach (Victoria), Garie beach to Wattamolla and Port Stephens to Newcastle (New South Wales) and some areas off southern Queensland appear to be seasonally important for juvenile white sharks. The areas where juveniles are mostly found may represent white shark pupping grounds.

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quokka Monday, 9 Feb 2015 at 5:33pm

The big boys eat mammal meat, need the energy. Protection is the key here, more whales and seals means more food for more big sharks...all have been protected for too long...and if you're in the way and they are hungry look out.

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mk1 Monday, 9 Feb 2015 at 5:35pm

Nochaser, I know a bit about the stockton situation, for one reason or another, but as far as I knew the GWS cruised through the north with the whale migrations and that was about it. If I hear anything else I will keep this in mind.

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grug Monday, 9 Feb 2015 at 6:12pm

RIP once again...

there is no such thing as 'stable truths/facts' when it comes to large complex ecosystems... especially ones as large and unknown as the ocean, and especially for apex predators with the intelligence of sharks.

I did marine biol with Hons in ecology and zoology, and i've been reading shark science for as long as I can remember especially on whites. More research brings more knowledge, but seems to reguarly contradict prior understanding and only raise more questions, especially where whites are concerned.

Good science moves slowly for many reasons... it takes time and money to get grants/funding, time to design and enact solid experimental protocols that will produce reliable data, time to analyse the data and then more time to have the paper validated through peer review... Science is very political and full of red tape from all angles. Scientists shouldn't discount anecdotal evidence... and many don't... but unfortunately, anecdotal evidence is useless in the context of the slow and methodical pursuit of reliable scientific method and analysis.

The current spike in attacks may be completely meaningless when looked at over a long time... the reasons for it could be coming from so many different variables.

However, common sense and overwhelming observation and anecdotal evidence would lead any sensible water user to be far more wary as it would seem that numbers of large sharks are indeed up, they are closer to shore, and more willing to attack... the variables have been discussed ad nauseum in many other similar threads.conditioning from Cage diving operations? Lack of fear now that they don't associate us with killing them at every turn? More whales? More seals? More sharks? More bigger sharks? Live cattle export tankers? I think many of them are valid to a point. More research does need to be done... more money and more scientists and less red tape. Or, we just accept the very real possibility of increasing risks to our water activities and make our own life decisions based on risk-assessment from there.

I think a lot of shark atacks are mistaken identity, we do often look like their food. But it seems pretty clear that a lot are very deliberate... who knows. Even with research, we probably never will completely nail it down.

I think that if it can be more or less proven that population and median age/size of man eating sharks are up, and that they are changing their behaviour to be more likely to view and target us as prey items (very hard to prove unfortunately?!?) then there would be a very solid argument for limited fishing licences to cull. This would never be popular amongst a society which has now been told for years that sharks should be protected for the good of the oceans. but if the populations are healthy then it aint gonna make much difference to the ecosystems unless we go overboard. but once the go ahead is given, it's very hard to stop people going overboard. how do you control it? It is selfish, it is brutal, it doesn't really even fit with my ideal world view. Human's are a cancer. But we aint going anywhere until we finally kill ourselves. There are more important things to spend time and money on... much much more important things. but we are surfers, and we are humans, and no matter what anyone says we have the time and money and selfish inclination to bitch and moan and whinge until somthing is done to make it safer for us to pursue our leisure (and work) activities. we don't like death or danger. no sentient being does. politics will beat the science to the punch if this keeps happening. maybe it needs to... who knows.

Whitetag??

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sbsb Wednesday, 11 Feb 2015 at 1:53am

I also offer condolences to Nakahara's family and friends, anyone who has lost someone unexpectedly knows how painful and impossible the situation is. He could have been any of us.

I think it is symptomatic that no-one responded to grug's comment, which to me is the most accurate account of what scientific knowledge is about shark attacks. Most people would prefer to believe something that reflects what they see on TV or that accords with their experience, but science exists to turn experience into authenticated observation and generalise that to see whether a community can collectively marshall evidence to make an authoritative pronouncement. The Swellnet message boards do that also, in a certain kind of way (there are a shitload of highly experienced surfers and fishos here, whose perspective commands respect) but the thread demonstrates that most people are more interested in proving their intuition than having a dispassionate view on why and how sharks do what they do. I understand that, because in science you are supposed to not be invested in what you are studying (so as not to cause "bias") but every surfer knows that this could have been us.

Nevertheless, there is so much that is scientifically and anecdotally unknown that it makes the anthropomorphism look particularly foolish. We don't know what a shark thinks, how it can see, what it's "motives" (as if it has motives!) are etc. They are mysterious creatures and that is the source of their hold over us. The explicable (car crash, suicide) is not dramatic.

I've been chased out of the water by a 4+m GW 20 years ago and will never forget it. But I also know that if that shark wanted to eat me it had ample opportunities and I would never have had a chance, in fact no-one could go swimming at the beach if they really wanted to make humans their top target, they are so fast and powerful that no human would have a chance.

Now, as many have said, there may be factors (population is most commonly mentioned) that change shark's dietary habits.

But I find it interesting that, given the vast distances we know GWS travel, that no one has talked about the massive open-sea fishing that has radically reduced major food sources. It may be an uncomfortable truth that the desire to kill the fish/shark is a part of what is partially responsible for the attacks (causing is too strong for anything given the lack of scientific evidence).

For those who advocate for the cull, I recommend the ancient story of King Midas - you may think you want an ecosystem that is totally under your control, but when you get it you may find out it is more problematic than you think (this is the scientific argument about apex predators: not that they are touchy-feely but precisely the opposite, if you kill them you bring everything else out of whack)

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caml Monday, 9 Feb 2015 at 6:12pm

can everybody please just understand that theres no fucking breakfast lunch or dinner time for sharks . ill guarantee that

grug's picture
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grug Monday, 9 Feb 2015 at 6:19pm

amen camel. and with your lifestyle that would often make you a breakfast, lunch and dinner option at some of the busiest smorgasboards in the ocean. big balls indeed. stay safe.

Cylinders85's picture
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Cylinders85 Monday, 9 Feb 2015 at 6:19pm

Too many sharks seen every where lately . A few have been see off straddie in 2 ft water.

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Rabbits68 Monday, 9 Feb 2015 at 6:26pm

Trimming the numbers seems like the logical answer. Hard to know if it will change the risk factor or not tho. A lot has changed in the oceans over the past 40/50yrs (overfishing/climate change/cage diving etc) What we thought we knew doesn't seem to apply anymore. I suppose if a cull or the like isn't implemented, we can't expect any positive change to the status quo......interesting times to be an ocean user that's for sure...

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simba Monday, 9 Feb 2015 at 6:33pm

The thing with Great Whites is there are no rules,they travel the whole ocean,probably have a routine at different times of the year as in migrating whales or salmon runs what ever but they are not restricted to any routine.That poor woman that was attacked in the mediterainian and it was all filmed from a cruise ship is testament to the fact that they cruise the worlds oceans,worries me that we know there breeding up so what happens when they reach 4meters .The only reason they dont eat humans all the time is that we are too boney,hardly worth the effort and potential risk of injury to itself,not like a fat blubbery whale or seal but i suppose being encouraged by cage diving with food association is being ingrained into there genetics and memories and sometimes its worth hammering a boney human.
But they need to develop more anti shark devices ,perfect them otherwise we might not be surfing in 10 years .

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grug Monday, 9 Feb 2015 at 6:42pm

agree simba. no rules with whites. wasn't that cruise ship attack a whaler though or is my memory just going?

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simba Monday, 9 Feb 2015 at 7:37pm
grug wrote:

agree simba. no rules with whites. wasn't that cruise ship attack a whaler though or is my memory just going?

Im sure it was a big white Grug.

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Joel Eugene Sla... Monday, 9 Feb 2015 at 6:43pm

It is interesting to see the difference in sentiment in the comments of this thread compared to recent threads relating to sharks attacks/drum lining in SW WA. In previous threads the majority seemed to want to see an end to the WA governments culling program and were calling for the sharks to be left alone, now it seems the majority are saying something needs to be done to reduce the frequency of attacks, either stating or eluding to the fact that population control may be one of the few options. What has happened to all of those who were defending the sharks on those threads? Things are heating up a bit too close to home now?

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Rabbits68 Monday, 9 Feb 2015 at 6:43pm

Your not going with "I told you so Line" are you??

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Joel Eugene Sla... Monday, 9 Feb 2015 at 6:56pm

Sorry rabbit I'm feeling a bit self rightous haha, I copped a fair bit of flack on some of those threads for suggesting that population control of the Great White was necessary.

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grug Monday, 9 Feb 2015 at 6:49pm

i don't live on the east coast. no known fatal attacks in tassie for awhile now. don't think i ever voiced any contradictory opinions in the other threads. havn't seen many people clearly doing that here either. nets and drum lines are a form of culling on the east coast already and have been for years. I think it was the method of the 'culling' that was the biggest problem in SWA. it was poory thought out, poorly implemented and unsurprisingly innefective at catching big dangerous white sharks. it wasn't based on any intelligent pooling of ideas from professionals. it was the usual scotch tape bandaid response from a clueless government trying to save tourist dollars and poll numbers. it was a disgraceful waste of money and life soley due to the way in which is was done and how poorly it worked...

i'll stay in tassie thanks. seemingly better odds.

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ACB__ Tuesday, 10 Feb 2015 at 8:40am

Do you reckon it's because there are so many seals down there and they're well fed?

Rabbits68's picture
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Rabbits68 Monday, 9 Feb 2015 at 6:54pm

With every subsequent fatal attack over the past few years I for one have adjusted my long held views to lean towards reducing the GW population (admittedly based on fear more than the current science). That said I think anyone that thinks a cull or similar will reduce risk is only guessing. As I stated previously, I believe a lot has changed in the oceans fairly recently that we don't seem to be able to measure its impact on many fronts as yet. It takes time & methodology to measure these things, in the meanwhile....

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quokka Tuesday, 10 Feb 2015 at 1:08am
Joel Eugene Slater-Burrows wrote:

It is interesting to see the difference in sentiment in the comments of this thread compared to recent threads relating to sharks attacks/drum lining in SW WA. In previous threads the majority seemed to want to see an end to the WA governments culling program and were calling for the sharks to be left alone, now it seems the majority are saying something needs to be done to reduce the frequency of attacks, either stating or eluding to the fact that population control may be one of the few options. What has happened to all of those who were defending the sharks on those threads? Things are heating up a bit too close to home now?

I'm feeling ya

freeride76's picture
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freeride76 Monday, 9 Feb 2015 at 6:49pm

it's not confirmed as a GWS.

what would a large or semi-large GWS be doing in sub-tropical water with no mammalian food source?

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grug Monday, 9 Feb 2015 at 6:56pm

whites are common in queensland and Hawaii... maybe they just like a warm water holiday once in a while too... one where they can increase their gourmand horizons with a bit of cultural diversity in the diet. Maybe dress like a seal Steve, I don't eat burgers and fries when i go to SE Asia, surely they wouldn't go all that way just to eat what they feed on during the normal yearly grind in the icy cold southern oceans... gotta be smart about this.

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Blowin Monday, 9 Feb 2015 at 7:31pm

Woah, you're starting to stray from the limited paradigm dictated by a scientific and media consensus with fuck all historic knowledge . Safe to say it will be accepted wisdom in 5 years time .
So accepted wisdom has provided us with - GWS numbers indicate endangered status ( 2 years ago )
- attacks on humans are mistaken identity ( current knowledge )
- humans are not considered good eating , too boney ( current knowledge subtracting the fact that up to 150 humans were witnessed being consumed after the sinking off the USS Indianapolis)

Great work accepted wisdom.

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Blowin Monday, 9 Feb 2015 at 6:56pm

Whatever the fuck it wants.....

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uncle_leroy Monday, 9 Feb 2015 at 7:43pm
freeride76 wrote:

what would a large or semi-large GWS be doing in sub-tropical water with no mammalian food source?

http://www.goldcoastbulletin.com.au/news/gold-coast/monster-great-white-...

Probably the same as this one last year, cruising through some nice warm water

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simba Monday, 9 Feb 2015 at 7:43pm
freeride76 wrote:

it's not confirmed as a GWS.

what would a large or semi-large GWS be doing in sub-tropical water with no mammalian food source?

Who says they only eat whales they also follow the salmon runs , mackeral kingfish etc,they are scavengers.The one and only one ive seen diving was off the Julian rocks while we were looking for spanish mackeral so that was in warm water in the 80s.

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reecen Monday, 9 Feb 2015 at 9:49pm

I remember seeing a documentary or article on some tagged whites that went NW of Exmouth in Western Australia. They couldn't work out why they were going there.
As it happened we used to go to exactly the same spot every year with the long liner catching spawning yellow fin tuna.
They don't only eat mammals.

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freeride76 Tuesday, 10 Feb 2015 at 7:01am

Thats a hell of a lot of energy to expend .......catching tuna.

At the moment there are pelagics around. Fair concentrations of bait; slimies, yakkas. Heaps of tailor.

Stingrays, turtles.

Be a bit of work for a GWS to get a decent feed though I would have thought.

Blowin's picture
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Blowin Tuesday, 10 Feb 2015 at 11:15am

Don't forget about dolphins.

simba's picture
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simba Tuesday, 10 Feb 2015 at 12:23pm
freeride76 wrote:

Thats a hell of a lot of energy to expend .......catching tuna.

At the moment there are pelagics around. Fair concentrations of bait; slimies, yakkas. Heaps of tailor.

Stingrays, turtles.

Be a bit of work for a GWS to get a decent feed though I would have thought.

Freeride you havent listed Dolphins......

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reecen Tuesday, 10 Feb 2015 at 6:02pm

Free ride I don't think it would be to hard when the Tuna are schooling to spawn. They are all over 25kg and each tuna is energy rich. BIG whites come and hang out in Cockburn Sound in Perth and eat schooling pink snapper. A sea thick with schooling tuna would be far more appetizing.

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velocityjohnno Wednesday, 11 Feb 2015 at 9:56pm

Hmmm, warm water and pelagics. I've heard that before, the WA warm water blooms, whale sharks off Albany, my fisho mates going nuts on pelagics off Rotto and really spun out by what they were seeing... and GWS attacks. Has anyone done any research linking water temp anomalies with increased anecdotal shark sightings/activity?

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evosurfer Monday, 9 Feb 2015 at 6:58pm

Don't know if I agree samba. Where do you get your statistics for bony humans.

rees0's picture
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rees0 Monday, 9 Feb 2015 at 7:15pm
evosurfer wrote:

Don't know if I agree samba. Where do you get your statistics for bony humans.

Put down the pie boys grab that salad instead.

simba's picture
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simba Monday, 9 Feb 2015 at 7:34pm
evosurfer wrote:

Don't know if I agree samba. Where do you get your statistics for bony humans.

No stats but just common sense,compare yourself to a seal evo grab a leg mate and what do yo feel,not a lot to chew on compared to a seal for example.

freeride76's picture
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freeride76 Monday, 9 Feb 2015 at 7:51pm

RIP Tadashi Nakahara.

Spoke to the head lifeguard at Shelleys this arvo.

Crew who rescued him did everything they could, including legrope tourniquets. They did everything they could to save him. He was dead by the time they got him to the beach.

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simba Monday, 9 Feb 2015 at 7:55pm

Another sad day alright...feel for his family and friends and the heroes who tried to save him.

Cylinders85's picture
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Cylinders85 Monday, 9 Feb 2015 at 8:11pm

Any thoughts on the company taging Sharks and can be view on a app? I think this is a great step forward and the government should help fund this

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simba Monday, 9 Feb 2015 at 8:18pm

Distribution and habitat

Great white shark off Guadalupe Island, Mexico
Great white sharks live in almost all coastal and offshore waters which have water temperature between 12 and 24 °C (54 and 75 °F), with greater concentrations in the United States (Atlantic Northeast and California), South Africa, Japan, Oceania, Chile, and the Mediterranean.[20] One of the densest known populations is found around Dyer Island, South Africa, where almost all of the shark research is done.

The great white is an epipelagic fish, observed mostly in the presence of rich game, such as fur seals (Arctocephalus ssp.), sea lions, cetaceans, other sharks, and large bony fish species. In the open ocean, it has been recorded at depths as great as 1,200 m (3,900 ft).[21] These findings challenge the traditional notion about the great white as being a coastal species.[21]

According to a recent study, California great whites have migrated to an area between Baja California and Hawaii known as the White Shark Café to spend at least 100 days before migrating back to Baja. On the journey out, they swim slowly and dive down to around 900 m (3,000 ft). After they arrive, they change behavior and do short dives to about 300 m (1,000 ft) for up to ten minutes. Another white shark that was tagged off of the South African coast swam to the southern coast of Australia and back within the year. A similar study tracked a different great white shark from South Africa swimming to Australia's northwestern coast and back, a journey of 20,000 km (12,000 mi; 11,000 nmi) in under nine months.[22] These observations argue against traditional theories that white sharks are coastal territorial predators, and open up the possibility of interaction between shark populations that were previously thought to have been discrete. The reasons for their migration and what they do at their destination is still unknown. Possibilities include seasonal feeding or mating.[23]

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bondisteve Monday, 9 Feb 2015 at 8:30pm

Had enough of shark hugging F/wits. Get Vic Hislop or his cousin....quick!

udo's picture
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udo Monday, 9 Feb 2015 at 8:38pm

Vic is the man and I bet this is just what he predicted 15+years ago would happen .

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Damothediver Monday, 9 Feb 2015 at 8:39pm

My heart goes out to the family .........and to the surfers who heroically pulled him out of the water and tried to save his life.....those images will wake them up at night for some time to come.
What everyone is failing to acknowledge is the assumption of risk factor........ whenever we enter the water we are taking a risk. They are there! As surfers and and all water lovers in general, we assume risk and accept it every time we enter the water.
old salt once said the only way to truly know if there are sharks in the water is to dip your finger in and taste it.......if it's satly they're there.
I paddle over to TOS all the time and have done since I was a kid. I went this morning, by myself pretty much in the dark.......I am also a Diving instructor with many dives in the seaway so I know what is down there.......but I still go, I accept the risk because I love surfing............We all do..........

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udo Monday, 9 Feb 2015 at 8:44pm

Damo what sharks do you see in the seaway ?

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Damothediver Monday, 9 Feb 2015 at 8:48pm

I have seen Bull sharks, wobbegongs ( also on the Scottish prince wreck off Main Beach) and small nurse sharks......not as many as everyone thinks, at least not in my experience there......others may say more

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bondisteve Monday, 9 Feb 2015 at 8:39pm

Swellnet! Time for some latest in depth info on anti shark stuff. Wetsuit colours and such inclusive!

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stunet Tuesday, 10 Feb 2015 at 8:11am
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bondisteve Tuesday, 10 Feb 2015 at 10:19am

Thank you Stunet....now I really want Vic Hislop and his cousin....shit!

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nochaser Monday, 9 Feb 2015 at 9:42pm

Had juvenile whites steal tunas (hooked up) off the back of Kingscliff reef I only ever went there in March. Freeride76, uncle leroy's one from last years snapper comp. Here's an article from December 2006 where whiteys were hanging around.

http://www.smh.com.au/news/national/great-whites-caught-at-popular-surfi...

Look at the Tiger shark tagging program the scientist know SFA about the migrations ect... they are doing the same with blue fin tuna.

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uncle_leroy Tuesday, 10 Feb 2015 at 12:14am
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udo Tuesday, 10 Feb 2015 at 5:44am

8 years on from that article - I wonder how many pups have been born in the Kingscliff Evans area...even if only 10 a year survived theres 80 large beasts swimming around...one for every beach between Kingscliff and Stockton.......then theres Stocktons Juveniles to add to the count.

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blindboy Monday, 9 Feb 2015 at 9:51pm

I tend to think that there is very little that can realistically be done to reduce attacks and the various devices designed to prevent them are probably more useful in reducing anxiety than anything else. The reality for surfers is that you are much more likely to drown. If you are concerned for your welfare that should be uppermost in your mind. Shark attacks are truly horrifying events and are always reported. Drownings are so common that most are never reported. If the risk of shark attack concerns you there is really only one solution, stay out of the water. No government is ever going to spend significant amounts of money to prevent a handful of deaths every year when so many more serious causes remain under funded. So yes very sad. Condolences to the family and those exposed to the horror. But seriously, focus for a moment on the reality, the risk remains negligible. If you have to worry, find something more significant to worry about.

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Rabbits68 Monday, 9 Feb 2015 at 10:16pm

So BB is shark attack issue worth doing anything about in your opinion??

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blindboy Tuesday, 10 Feb 2015 at 8:03am

Rabbits, of course it would be worth doing if there was something that could be done but I just don't see anything available that will reduce the number of attacks and I include culls in this. People love drama and are swayed by dramatic events but any rational analysis is going to quickly demonstrate that money spent trying to reduce shark attacks would be more effectively spent elsewhere such as on reducing drownings.

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freeride76 Tuesday, 10 Feb 2015 at 10:11am

No attacks at any netted beaches since netting began.

Thats a hard statistic to argue against.

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blindboy Tuesday, 10 Feb 2015 at 11:15am

I thought there was an attack at Bondi a couple of years ago......maybe no fatalities freeride. The issue with netting is the cost of expanding it to cover the whole coast and the potential environmental consequences of such an action. No government is going to fund it anyway, it couldn't be justified by any cost benefit analysis.

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freeride76 Tuesday, 10 Feb 2015 at 11:45am

What do you mean?

It's already funded and in place in both NSW and QLD.

It would only require an extension to places where population and tourist visitations justify it.

It might be the simplest method of reducing risk at popular spots.

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bluem00n Tuesday, 10 Feb 2015 at 2:41pm

I understood (happy to be corrected) the nets return a profit due to the QLD/NSW selling contracts to fishos to maintain the nets in addition to on-selling legal stock caught in them.. or is this hogwash?

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kaiser Tuesday, 10 Feb 2015 at 12:04pm

I'm not trying to disagree, FR, but one that springs to mind was a dude who essentially landed on a bull at Nobby's a couple of years ago, and it bit him. Would that count as an attack?

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ACB__ Tuesday, 10 Feb 2015 at 8:50am

I'm quite scared of ISIS, thus I'm not going to Syria.

If you're too scared of sharks don't go surfing.

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Rabbits68 Tuesday, 10 Feb 2015 at 9:38am

Yep that's the obvious solution. Not unlike if your scared of of having a car crash, don't use the roads, etc, etc, etc. My folks take small tour groups to eastern Turkey, within a few kilometers of the Turkey/Syria border, apparently even being that close you still wouldn't know of the atrocities just "a stones throw away"......

In terms of shark attacks the ideal scenario would be managing the issue to a point that reduces the number of attacks, whilst maintaining healthy oceans. Is it possible?? The $64 million dollar question...

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ACB__ Tuesday, 10 Feb 2015 at 9:43am
Rabbits68 wrote:

Syria border, apparently even being that close you still wouldn't know of the atrocities just "a stones throw away".......

Phenomenal pun, very well done.

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Rabbits68 Tuesday, 10 Feb 2015 at 10:04am

No pun intended I can assure you. The reality of the goings on over there are horrific. Cheers anyway...

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quokka Tuesday, 10 Feb 2015 at 6:25pm

Give me the $64 million Rabbitts I can answer it for you, YES. I pose this question to you, are the oceans unhealthy due to having too many apex predators out there? Could this be the reason they are being pushed closer to shore due to greater competition for food and territory?

I agree there is a happy medium and I don't reckon we are there at the minute. IMO, a thinning out of the GWS population needs to occur and then ongoing management of that population. I wish I was a big enough tough guy to say it doesn't enter my mind every time I enter the water but I can't.

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blindboy Tuesday, 10 Feb 2015 at 7:37pm

quokka if there are too many apex predators it is a problem that will solve itself as their population will fall from lack of food. This is a fundamental ecological principle.

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Rabbits68 Tuesday, 10 Feb 2015 at 9:09pm

BB unfortunately "the fundamental ecological principle" is just that, a principle. The oceans have been greatly disturbed by human interaction over time & I believe this principle no longer applies as it has in the past & should. If we wait for GW to sort out the natural number count in the meanwhile we can only assume that attacks on humans will increase. All unknown I acknowkedge, but so is your call....

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blindboy Tuesday, 10 Feb 2015 at 9:59pm

Can't see it myself quokka since there is no evidence that attacks on humans are increasing and as the data in the graph posted earlier in the comments shows, they might even be declining in proportion to population. A bad year on the east coast of Australia is just a random bump in the distribution. Horrible for those attacked and those who witnessed them but meaningless in terms of our understanding of the issue .

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Rabbits68 Tuesday, 10 Feb 2015 at 10:48pm

Just because attacks might be declining in line with population growth doesn't mean that attacks are on the decrease. It's an irrevalant comparison really......

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Rabbits68 Tuesday, 10 Feb 2015 at 9:14pm

You could well be right Quokka. Only time will tell. In the meanwhile, I like you, will continue to develop a shark psychological back of mind strategy so as to continue to enjoy the oceans, all the while accepting the obvious risks....

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velocityjohnno Wednesday, 11 Feb 2015 at 10:35pm

I'll take a bit of that 64MIL too Rabbits68. YES. My background is not science, but rather a history grad, so I can chomp through sources quickly and distill themes, trends and from these extrapolate answers. Let's go to an idea presented by Tim Flannery some years ago - that when people first came to Australia a correlation with a massive increase in fires is noted on the floral record. At the same time either climatic, human or an interaction of both saw the extinction of the megafauna. In the wake of this, a new ecosystem developed, fire dependent, and Eucalypts rose from 5% of the floral species to 90%+. Landscapes were irrevocably changed, dung beetles and nutrient recycling were massively reduced, Australia no longer was a continuous rain forest from the North West to the entire East coast - and a dry Gondwanan rain forest no longer existed in Alice Springs. The hydrological cycle changed, and rain was no longer recycled inland to the centre. The land became bare in a most promethean way, and required constant burning to keep the 'new normal'. In short, people had been forced into becoming 'environmental managers' to maintain what species were left, and maintain landscapes in which to hunt them. Time dwarfism resulted in large animals as hunting pressures continued. The people ate their future.

Fast forward to today - something is going on in our oceans, a 'global commons'. Time dwarfism is being seen in Snapper. They really aren't as big as they used to be. (When fishermen first went to the Grand Banks of Newfoundland over 500 years ago, the average cod was 6ft long, and every oar stroke hit one... picture that...) The apex populations are being protected, while other populations underneath them continue to be exploited. No one forms rallies to protect these other organisms. Offshore, exploitation of fisheries is going on in an industrial scale. Particularly good analysis of the issues facing Reunion has surfaced on the internet - in this horrific story, Marine Parks were established just as industrial fishing occurred offshore - bull sharks came in, ate the reef sharks to be protected, ate the fish, then ate the people. Then were protected, despite not being a common species in that area before the parks. The management has been flawed, organisms to be protected were killed, and people have died.

Despite this, YES, we can manage the issue. We will have to recognise that the oceans are changed, and will not return to what they were before - a 'new normal' will be established, just as it did after people first came to Australia, or New Zealand, or post Ice-Age Europe for that matter. The question is how we wish this new normal to be. At the moment, we wish an ecosystem where the food pyramid does not look like a pyramid as such, but more like an eaten apple core - keep the top, can't really touch the bottom, hollow out everything in the middle. 'Cos it's tasty.

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Rabbits68 Wednesday, 11 Feb 2015 at 10:52pm

Enjoyed that read Velocity. No argument from me. Reality dictates that what ever ocean management system "works " (if any) we will have to accept a certain number of fatalities by GW attack at any given period. That's simply the risk once we enter the ocean. How can we measure what is an "acceptable" number of fatalities when we don't really understand the issue? It's going to take a long time & a lot of resources to establish some hard truths on this issue IMO. In the meanwhile it will be as it has been since dot, enter at your own risk. Cheers.

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velocityjohnno Saturday, 14 Feb 2015 at 12:33pm

Thank you Rabbits. You are correct, the risk is always there. I for one would like to fang little Go Pro mounted submarine drones with sonars out the back of many of the lineups, to see what really is there.

If you enjoyed the bit about Australia, it's landscape and ecosystems, I can recommend Peter Andrews' works ("Back from the Brink"), where he describes a way to restore the floodplain systems of water retention to the continent, that the Aboriginal people were very aware of.

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Blowin Tuesday, 10 Feb 2015 at 11:20am

I know a few shark attack victims, I don't know anyone that's drowned surfing .

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blindboy Tuesday, 10 Feb 2015 at 11:22am

I think I put up the statistics on this in another thread. From memory drownings are about ten times more common than shark fatalities for surfboard riders.

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mibs-oner Monday, 9 Feb 2015 at 11:09pm

They've got to go. This is bullshit. I've been for the cull since day 1.
I really feel for the guys who pulled this fella to shore. They must be going thru some serious shit right now. I've been first on scene in some horrible fatalities and you don't need that shit in your head for the rest of your life believe me.
Noah's been lurking around my area since before Christmas. What do you do? A few days out of the water is enough to send anyone crazy

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russhook Tuesday, 10 Feb 2015 at 12:06am

My first comments on a blog sadly come with another shark fatality, so sorry to all his crew , l regularly read swellnet and as a busted ex surfer , laugh and sometimes learn lots {especially board bazaar , l knew l couldn't garage sale those 2 Dahlberg Sky channeled swallowtails the kids learnt on , thought it was just hoarders disease kicking in} I have no expertise in surf design and had low level surf ability loved it then and still love looking now, but l reckon l can give some of my observations after 35 years of commercial small boat , trapping and line fishing out the Clarence river at Yamba, first l need to say the shark scare meter is off the Richter scale on this coast , its been steadily ramping up last 6 or 7 years and the graph line seems to be getting vertical for major credible scares as time goes . Whites around the boat , yes we get them, other fisho's round here claim they see the same shark that circled them 12 years ago , but huge odds for that . l have been fishing on the central coast wide off Terrigal and Norah Head with commercial fishing mates, there was always a bronzie problem jigging kings and bonnies
on the 100mtr grounds , but was always manageable , but in the last few years , they have been obliterated by sharks some days not hardly landing a fish, they could see them marauding around down in the blue , thought they had a plague of baby bronzies hundreds and hundreds of them , FUCKEN wrong ! yep they are whites and yes for the record they release them when they hook one and it doesn't bite off their jig , one dead one wont change naught out there. As commented on above . Vic Hislop did foresee problems with the protection laws being implemented for GWS , but no one back then{ l don't think} foresaw the increase in millions and millions of water hours spent in the sea on the east coast, the encounters and collisions were inevitable , open slaughter of GWS is a futile , dumb alternative but culling lone hunting predators could stop another attack . Tigers , yes we see them bout the same ratio l reckon as always , get them when the water warms up like now in the mackerel season , bronzies are just a continually constant local population, but l have had so many more GWS incidents in the past 3 years l just pull anchor and go , don't need the hassle, plus the big ones scare the fuk out of me .l have watched them chew off the head gear {floats} of fish and lobster traps , bastards just spit them out , that trap lost! Seen 3 whites hit 2 tigers that were latched on to a dead whale carcass 20 years ago 80 miles off the coast , while working on a tuna boat , still awed by power unleashed in that 15 seconds, but last year towing livies for spanish in Woody Bay took the cake for me . the kite boarders were hooting and hollering maybe 200mtrs inside me off the sharkbay rocks {appropriate name for that place} having a great time in the freshening northerly it was grey , overcast and when the white hit the Hammerhead maybe 10mtrs behind my baits it come out of the water in reverse somersaulting tail back over head , its was a better than average hammer too l think that's what stunned me he was pretty bloody big for a hammer, the white glided above it easily more than its own body length and landed mouth first on it , l wound my lines in looked at the kiters whooping it up , they be alright l reckoned that white was full for now. Vic Hislop had concerns way back , l cant imagine the situation in 20 years time but wholesale slaughter is a joke, the answer has to be in technology in deterrents , as people have discussed in these forums , and the culling of rouge human predators must be allowed and undertaken for all water users sake. l heard todays sad news in the car just after talking to my youngest son who heading to pick up his brother at Port Lincon airport for a week of fishing and surfing out west somewhere lucky buggers! They agree too no mass pointless slaughter!

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nickg Tuesday, 10 Feb 2015 at 12:16am

i'm so sorry for this fella's friends and family. brutal.

the two marine bio's i know describe late summer in most parts of oz as a process of warm water generating plankton and shit, little fish turn up to feed on that, and so on, until you have the bigger sharks coming in to feed on the larger fish.

normally the marine bios opinions are based on data, not anecdotal and in most cases not out of self interest.

i don't give a f*** about animals, unless they're tasty, then i care about the cooking process, and i care about the ecosystem. meaning: if we can cull without doing permanent damage then i'm all for it.

if we cull then we should also ban burleying and any other activity that attracts sharks.

my little anecdote: after decades of surfing I saw my first shark ever at Christmas while holidaying in South Oz. full fin out casual cruise by.

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bobhawke Tuesday, 10 Feb 2015 at 12:52am

Don't be to sure it was a white... I have it on good advise from professional cray fishos that Tigers are far more ominous, with first hand reports of the boys finding half eaten wheelie bins and cardboard boxes deep in the gullet of Tigers. They simply don't give a fuck what they eat. And they a far more prevalent than whites around the warmer waters particularly around the east coast and west coast convergence zones.

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udo Tuesday, 10 Feb 2015 at 5:59am

Russhook, your thoughts on GWS birthing areas Kingscliff ,Evans waters ?
The stretch of water Evans head to Shark bay looks to me like a another Stockton.

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russhook Tuesday, 10 Feb 2015 at 6:52am

udo, the shark fisho's from Iluka would have much more valued opinions than me on that, they make a substantial part of their year , tucked up tight inside those Sharkbay rocks targeting the small juvenile whalers , which are prolific, as the bay is a known major shark birthing ground . They encounter all types of sharks and loose sharks to sharks so l guess whites have to be in the mix , Shane Powell and his dad have some classic GW storys snapper fishing in there . Those lid riders paddling 200 mtrs out off the beach to the bombie there are nuts GET A FUKEN BOAT! Couldnt stop one of my young blokes going out there no matter what he saw or l said , still get shivers thinking about it

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Damothediver Tuesday, 10 Feb 2015 at 7:37am

Just saw on the news that C'Watch cams caught the incident........footage has been handed over to the police, on their website they state that footage will not be released to media as per company policy surrounding fatality..........thank god for that....the public don't need to see that!!!!

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stickyson Tuesday, 10 Feb 2015 at 8:15am

Hi been and still am a commercial diver for over twenty years. Tend to go with the mistaken identity heard or read years ago and I like the theory that we are a negative gain to sharks ie they use more energy eating us than we supply. Bit like us eating celery. Might. Not be right but it's a good thought. Cheers

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burgsurfer Tuesday, 10 Feb 2015 at 9:38am

Its very sad to see the increase in attacks / sightings. It seems that there are hot spots along the coast but it also seems that the most sightings are where the beaches are most populated hence more eyes on the ocean to see them.

I know that the WA shark culling was controversial and in the end useless and then the WA government have their shark spotting website (not sure how useful that is??). What, if anything is being done by NSW government?

We need solid research and answers and if possible preventative measures.

Do the electronic shark doo hicks work? I have seen evidence supporting them and then a tuna bait study where the great whites still went for the tuna. The only commentators though are lay reporters lacking insight into sharks. Now sure that tuna bait is a bleeding fish (shark food) and we are just something they bite if curious (so we are told) - so does that mean with a shark electronic doo hick a shark will avoid us as they are not in "feeding frenzy mode"?

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lostdoggy Tuesday, 10 Feb 2015 at 9:44am

Read this in the paper.

"Cr Wright said it was likely the shark at Shelly Beach was the same one that bit a man at Seven Mile Beach near Byron Bay, 25 kilometres away from Shelly Beach, on Sunday morning."

What info does he have to suggest that?
Bit early to be throwing big assumptions like that out there. I haven't seen the councillor's exact quote, so it could also be fairfax bending quotes also.

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tc Tuesday, 10 Feb 2015 at 10:00am

Why is the word "attacked" in inverted commas in relation to the seven mile beach incident? it seems the guy had puncture wounds so presumably the shark did bite him. Is it an error or is the writer suggesting that the shark was just playing?

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stunet Tuesday, 10 Feb 2015 at 10:14am

The reason is that many incidents are cases of mistaken identity or sharks testing what the prey is. Obviously sharks don't have hands so they've gotta bite to see what kind of creature it is. Humans are bony, have little meat (compared to, say, seals), and not worth the effort. So the "attack" is actually the shark being inquisitive, and the victim is left with puncture wounds but ususally remains alive (unless it's a GWS or an artery gets severed). The Seven Mile Beach incident had all those hallmarks.

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tc Tuesday, 10 Feb 2015 at 11:15am

thanks for you reply Stu, but for me a bite is an attack regardless of the shark's motives.

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kaiser Tuesday, 10 Feb 2015 at 12:12pm

The bite marks on the seven mile dude looked like it had more than one go, Stu. I still reckon they inflict what they hope is a fatal wound, then wait for it to die rather than exert too much energy when the inevitable is assured (as long as it doesn't get out of the water).

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V-Land Tuesday, 10 Feb 2015 at 10:20am

I was watching a documentary the other night on how, during the space race, the Americans had 400,000 people working on the moon landing with an unlimited budget.

Sharks are wonderful creatures that have a right to be protected and people's lives are too precious to be lost this in this tragic fashion. It's especially more of a tragedy that we know have (or could design) technology that can prevent/minimise shark attacks from occurring.

Why doesn't the Australian Surfing Industry/Australian Government get behind creating and implementing such a technology that could be exported to the rest of the world?

Rather than deterring sharks I think detection is the key - if something longer than 1.2m is within 200m of me I'd like to know about it.

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freeride76 Tuesday, 10 Feb 2015 at 10:31am

That guy at Seven Mile was sitting on his board when a shark launched out of the water to bite him.
Lady had her board snapped by an explosive hit at wategoes: http://www.northernstar.com.au/news/surf-mums-lucky-break-as-shark-snaps...
Bloke was knocked by a big hit at FlatRock - big unit thrown a metre into the air.
http://www.northernstar.com.au/news/close-shave-with-shark/2522136/

These are all far more than a friendly nudge. They fit perfectly the modus operandi of ambush predators hitting hard from below.

I think it's fair to call these episodes attacks. It's probably pure luck the shark hit fibreglass instead of flesh.

It's kind of hard to fathom the continuing PR campaign to try and paint sharks as these cuddly touchy-feely good samaritans who don't mean to harm humans and just get a little misguided some days.
The sightings are increasing, the attacks are increasing.

The official word is that it is all due to population increase but that argument has no logic. Beaches around here have been popularly surfed since the sixties. IE there is most often someone in the water most days. Whether there is ten out or fifty there is still potential for shark encounter. Yet, encounters are increasing.

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Sheepdog Tuesday, 10 Feb 2015 at 10:46am

Byron/Tallows/Ballina/Evans has always been sharky..... The most eastern point of a huge continent jutting out into the biggest ocean on the planet... Warm currents, cold currents, migrating sea life....Had some fairly dicey moments at south wall, and at the outer cove at Evans..... You know, really fishy smelling ocean, bait fish jumping and scattering.... One solo sesh years ago at evans did my head in... never actually saw a shark, but just the amount of baitfish and the smell told me to get the fuck outa there.....
And yeah whoever said Tigers are evil are spot on... They maul, and at times continue to maul... Seen it with my own eyes.... Whites strike with one massive blow to disable they prey... Often when they strike a human, the one blow is enough for death, with the blow causing horrific injury... But they move on.... This is because they feel the human skeleton when they bite, and think "hey this isn't soft seal blubber - something's not right..."..... But a Tiger's favourite snack is the hard shelled turtle... They have no issue with bone..... So when they take a bite at a human, they will often take a second chunk, sometimes a third....... They are not phased.....

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Sheepdog Tuesday, 10 Feb 2015 at 10:58am

Fr - "The sightings are increasing, the attacks are increasing"

Of course.... That's because of the "seachange".... The amount of humans in and around the ocean is increasing... So if you have more sets of eyes, as in "cameras", of course you will see more...... If one was to take a walk along Shelly beach in 1962, you'd probably be the only one on the beach..... In fact, you'd probably be the only surfer.... Just because security camera's see more shoplifters doesn't mean there were less shoplifters before the cameras were installed...
And if there are more people in the water, and I mean 1000% more people than 1962, of course the chance of shark attack also increases....
Ron (RIP) and Valerie Taylor were diving these waters back then... They believe/d there were way more sharks in the 60s..... And when you look at their archival footage, one would have to agree.....

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barley Tuesday, 10 Feb 2015 at 10:59am

Should've been culling 5yrs ago...its funny how everyone was having a go at WA for their program.not such a silly idea now? stupid greenies.

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roondog Tuesday, 10 Feb 2015 at 11:06am

RIP to the bloke, sad and tragic for his mates and family.
WHAT, can be done to understand the nature of what is happening on our oceans.

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Sheepdog Tuesday, 10 Feb 2015 at 11:06am

Yeah, right Barley...... Or just let the japs kill the whales.... No whales on the east coast = no gw's.....
Mate, if you are afraid of falling, don't take up mountain climbing... If you are afraid of snakes, don't bushwalk.... If you are afraid of sharks, don't surf.....
Funny how there's calls for killing sharks.... Any calls for blowing up the wreck?

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Blowin Tuesday, 10 Feb 2015 at 11:44am

Of all the evidence regarding sharks , find me one fact that points to sharks not liking humans because they are too boney. Pretty hilarious theory if you ask me.

What about all the people that have been totally consumed ? Should we just conveniently forget about these attacks as they don't fit the theory ?

USS Indianapolis. Must have been some stupid sharks around when that got sunk. They just ate humans regardless of their apparent lack of nutritional value.

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barley Tuesday, 10 Feb 2015 at 11:47am

The answer is soo obviouz and logical and effective.the problem is modern society.its alright to shoot a couple drug dealers but not wipeout a few sharks? Its like a bushfire,greenies are all for protecting forest and jump and scream when 1 tree is chopped down, then a bushfire comes through kills 100 people and everyone goes wtf? How did we let that happen?can we prevent it? Humans are sooo fucking stupid.

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50young Tuesday, 10 Feb 2015 at 12:18pm
barley wrote:

The answer is soo obviouz and logical and effective.the problem is modern society.its alright to shoot a couple drug dealers but not wipeout a few sharks? Its like a bushfire,greenies are all for protecting forest and jump and scream when 1 tree is chopped down, then a bushfire comes through kills 100 people and everyone goes wtf? How did we let that happen?can we prevent it? Humans are sooo fucking stupid.

well one is?

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Sheepdog Tuesday, 10 Feb 2015 at 2:22pm

Yep, your post demonstrates your last point......... ;) I don't want a cotton wool society, Barley... people want to live amongst the trees for a "treechange".... But then you want to rip the tree's down because the trees' are a fire hazard.... It's fuckn barmy..... If you want to build a house out in the forest, shit can happen.... At least those in the USA living in tornado alley have the commonsense to build basements, where they keep their precious collectables... So, if you are going to build a house next to a forest in Australia, build it out of stone, have a basement, and stop fucking whinging.... Or live in the burbs......

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freeride76 Tuesday, 10 Feb 2015 at 11:49am

The guys legs were apparently consumed .....grisly detail but there is plenty of evidence that sharks have no compunction consuming humans.

The water was clear yesterday, plenty of available light. It's hard to run a mistaken identity theory in those circumstances. Mistaken for what? A seal?
Same with the Main Beach attack last year.

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barley Tuesday, 10 Feb 2015 at 12:25pm

50...young? My point exactly

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50young Tuesday, 10 Feb 2015 at 12:34pm

Looking in the mirror are we? People chose to live in the bush despite the obvious risk of bushfires, insurances are higher in these areas, and they rebuild there; their choice. Those drug dealers heroin would have killed more than any shark has. "wipeout a few sharks" WTF!!!! We chose to surf and we know the risks our choice. Personally if I go doing what I love then I would be a damn sight happier than dying at work, my choice!! Condolenses to the families and RIP

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freeride76 Tuesday, 10 Feb 2015 at 12:34pm
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barley Tuesday, 10 Feb 2015 at 12:59pm

Sharks kill for a living 50..pretty sure of that.? I am also sure people who live in the bush take every precaution they can to stay as safe as they can..we cull rabbits,mice ,roos, goats,dingos,starfish we eat every fish out the ocean yet we leave the apex predator.you might say we cant fuck with the ecosystem but we already have! Its out of whack.wouldnt take long to manage...give the fishos 60 days man

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50young Tuesday, 10 Feb 2015 at 1:00pm
barley wrote:

Sharks kill for a living 50..pretty sure of that.so if a mouse lives in your house you wont kill it? I spose your a vegan? I am also sure people who live in the bush take every precaution they can to stay as safe as they can..we cull rabbits,mice ,roos, goats,dingos,starfish we wat every dush out the ocean yet we leave gw's? C'mon mate fake those green glasses off bud!!

Sharks kill to eat, to live, not as a living! For the record I love my meat thanks Barney, don't even mind chopping down the odd tree. If we follow your thinking lets kill everything that gets in our way of life! Oh we already do!

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benski Tuesday, 10 Feb 2015 at 1:06pm

It seems like a lot of people are misinterpreting the mistaken identity concept. Mistaken identity does not equal idle curiosity.

If a shark has mistaken you for prey, it's gonna be in full attack mode. It's not going to be testing you out, it's gonna have a real go because it has mistaken you for something else.

The concept of mistaken identity is not some line that tries to paint sharks as cute cuddly animals that swim merrily along nibbling gently to taste potential food items. It's saying they'll go you properly cos they think you're a prey item. If it's big enough, you could well be a goner, but if it's not big enough and you survive, it won't come back for a second bite to finish you off because by then it's realised it mistook you for something it likes to eat.

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kaiser Tuesday, 10 Feb 2015 at 1:40pm

Benski, did you see the photos of the big tiger that bit that dolphin recently and then followed it? He could have had a real go and finished it off in seconds, but he didn't. And we both know that he thinks the dolphin is a tasty morsel. No, he just followed it by himself while it slowly died, then he ate it.

Maybe they only go into full on attack if they think either a) this one's gonna put up a fight and I'm hungry or b) I better get this down quick cos I've got company and I might lose him to another shark

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udo Tuesday, 10 Feb 2015 at 1:09pm

27 hrs on I guess Mr Whitey might be feeling hungry....whats on the menu today....fish ..nah that's hard work ....I'l go into the shallows and take a playing toddler around the torso..to easy.

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freeride76 Tuesday, 10 Feb 2015 at 1:19pm

It's a pretty useless concept though.
Mistaken identity?
MIstaken for what? There's no seals or anything in this area and in the clear water that recent attacks have occurred in the shark, which has extremely accurate sense organs, obviously had a very clear understanding it wasn't a fish it was attacking.

I think the whole concept of mistaken identity needs to be discarded. Guy yesterday had his legs taken. They weren't spat out.

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Rabbits68 Tuesday, 10 Feb 2015 at 1:34pm

FR, if you discard the "mistaken identity" theory then essentially you are saying that a GW shark has the intelligence to distinguish between human & sea life. Just like all of the theories been suggested to date (none of which can be proven or disproved) giving the GW shark this intellgence level is a big call IMO. Just because we as humans can distinguish between a shark & human shouldn't automatically assume the reverse scenario. If a GW shark sees/smells etc an object floating in the water and assuming it's either hungry or curious, why is it such a stretch to think that it doesn't actually know what it is until it has touched/tasted it??

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freeride76 Tuesday, 10 Feb 2015 at 1:54pm

We know that sharks have some of the most evolved and incredibly accurate sense organs of any top order predator. They need to be in order to find food through the vast expanse of ocean.
In clear water and bright sunshine they can bring the full complement of those sense organs to bear upon determining whether an item is prey and how to approach it and attack it.

Of course it's speculation as to what "intelligence" they are using in designating an item as prey but to assume they don't have the sensory capacity to determine a prey item is to ignore everything we know about shark biology.
Therefore I think the whole concept of mistaken identity is pretty much useless as a factor in determining human/shark interactions.

If it's hunting and you are in the search area for prey you could be considered a viable target.

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Rabbits68 Tuesday, 10 Feb 2015 at 2:09pm

I think there's confusion in the definition of term "mistaken identity". What you are saying is that a GW knows the difference between human life & sea life (correct me if I'm wrong). I agree that if you happen to be in the area where a shark is feeding or curious, then your fair game. That doesn't equate to the shark choosing to attack you or check you out based on wether you are human or not. Hence once you are attacked you are either left alone, partially eaten or consumed completely. Wether the shark knows if your human or not is irrelevant. I would suggest the shark doesn't exactly know what a human is before the strike. If it did, why (case in point the Ballina attack) was it so ferocious, when it didn't really need to be, given it was a slight human & not an acrobatic seal or large fish??

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benski Tuesday, 10 Feb 2015 at 2:15pm

Maybe they were spat out further out to sea. Maybe they got swallowed whole.

Maybe that particular one wasn't mistaken identity. Maybe it was hungry and thought I'd like a piece of one of those funny looking things above me. Maybe the shark was cruising along and got spooked by a surfer above and attacked to protect itself.

Maybe, maybe, maybe. The point is we don't know. You don't know. We'll probably never know. But misinterpreting a concept and then suggesting we discard it cos it doesn't seem to fit what you think it should fit seems a tad half cocked to me.

I'm sure some are mistaken identity (which could be a full blown attack), people who get attacked in remote areas and then left alone might fit that. I'm sure some are curiosity bites and others are probably full blown attacks (I know you're not a seal but I'm hungry and you look tasty).

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freeride76 Tuesday, 10 Feb 2015 at 8:07pm

Well that may be true.

But in the context of increasing human/shark interactions which are including attacks the concept of "mistaken identity" seems a pretty useless concept.

It doesn't fit the evidence available and it doesn't serve any worthwhile purpose in terms of ameliorating risk or understanding interactions.

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barley Tuesday, 10 Feb 2015 at 1:21pm

Thats right 50..we kill everything else except gws..which makes the endangered theory even more stupid..and not culling them the same.

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50young Tuesday, 10 Feb 2015 at 1:27pm
barley wrote:

Thats right 50..we kill everything else except gws..which makes the endangered theory even more stupid..and not culling them the same.

WTF!!!! what planet are you from? I give up!! that makes no sense?? Sheepy help lol

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roubydouby Tuesday, 10 Feb 2015 at 1:55pm

I read a book about man eating tigers - the meow meow kind - and the guy who hunted them (and wrote the book) said those that became man eaters were all invariably injured or disabled in some way that made their usual prey unattainable. Generally he said they wouldn't bother with humans. I wonder if this pertains to sharks at all?

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Craig Tuesday, 10 Feb 2015 at 1:57pm

I'm with SD, these days there are that many people down the beach, in the water, with iPhones, cameras, aerial surveillance during summer and now social networks to let people know about their encounters.

Back in the day someone may have had a scare, told his mates and that was it. These days it'll be Facebooked, Insta'd and Tweeted so it appears there are more of them out there than before.

But the stats still show the incident of death is still in line with the growing population.

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freeride76 Tuesday, 10 Feb 2015 at 2:04pm

no they don't.

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Craig Tuesday, 10 Feb 2015 at 2:13pm
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freeride76 Tuesday, 10 Feb 2015 at 2:18pm

Yes, that is the source material I'm referring to.
Look at the graphs Craig.

Attacks increased up to the 30's, then decreased until the 80's then increased again.

According to your theory they should have been increasing the whole time because Aus population has been increasing the whole time.

The material you quoted disproves your theory.

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Revelator Tuesday, 10 Feb 2015 at 2:36pm

Been looking at that report myself today. Like most data, I don't think it's quite that simple to interpret, FR:

Looking at the attacks per million people (because this irons out *some* of the spike due to more of us around, which has to be factored in)

1. 1930's spike: NSW (mainly Sydney) netting commenced 1937. Given the population spread in Aus then, plus the under-developed 'beach and leisure' culture compared to now, especially outside of the cities, it is likely that a very high % of the attack decrease was due to NSW netting.

2. Increase from 1990- 2009: is relatively small. On top of population growth, I bet increased tourism and increased beach use in general would explain that. SLSA has done studies on beach visits per year - some guestimating in there, numbers are not perfect, but we're talking >100 million visits per year to beaches nationwide, and growing quite rapidly. Meanwhile, the surf industry now reckons there are ~2 million surfers in Aus.

So- although it feels like more attacks (that's was my feeling, before I looked at the data), I'm tending to think the numbers tell us that per person, or per beach visit, or per surfing hour, it is probably around what it has been for the last 75 years.

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Craig Tuesday, 10 Feb 2015 at 3:03pm

No, I'm saying if these sharks are more of a threat now, the attacks per million should be increasing at a greater rate than the population increase. This is not the case, so there is no more of a risk as there was before.

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southey Tuesday, 10 Feb 2015 at 2:28pm

AND ......freeride takes it on points .....late in the fifth round ...

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blindboy Tuesday, 10 Feb 2015 at 2:33pm

Looking for trends in shark attacks is like looking for trends in lottery winners. There just is not enough data to draw any conclusions at all.

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bluem00n Tuesday, 10 Feb 2015 at 2:33pm

...I can't see the future being one of surf report [check, shark presence [check - hmmm..]

ocearch.org
iTunes app

Not dismissing the work these guys do - it's great and they're spread thinly, I just can't see it being feasible to know the whereabouts of all sharks of concern along the EC, let alone the VIC, SA, WA & TAS!

I accept I'm ignorant, but can't help but think that, like humans, it's a case of a few aggressive animals acting outside their norm that are causing concern. naturally, a bigger population gives rise to more problematic animals, but is it a phase in a sharks development or a dna characteristic that endures throughout it's life.

it'd be good to hear/read fishos/old salts opinions on this? There must be some trends they observe that can help identify times of greater risk (fish stocks, seasons, other animal activity... etc..)

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fitzroy-21 Tuesday, 10 Feb 2015 at 2:43pm

I'm personally seeing and encountering more whites each year and it is no longer just seasonal anymore. Used to be mostly around the whale migration, but that's changed. Tiger and whaler numbers appear to be unchanged.

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Rabbits68 Tuesday, 10 Feb 2015 at 2:45pm

Fitzroy, what areas?? If it's not a secret....

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fitzroy-21 Tuesday, 10 Feb 2015 at 2:49pm

No secrets Rabs. GBR top to bottom including the Torres Strait, but mostly around the Bunker Group these days.

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Sheepdog Tuesday, 10 Feb 2015 at 2:47pm

Fr ---- Weren't beaches closed during ww2? There's 6 years.... weren't people off fighting then..... And fighting in Korea?... Vietnam? Wasn't it a different culture? So most of the 40s and 50s were devoid of beach culture as our potential plank riders went off to war........ Then the returned servicemen formed slsc's, which became far more structured after 1955..... name how many shark attacks between the flags, FR........... That has to be taken into account....
Then in the 80s, the beach culture exploded........ And surfing and swimming AWAY from patrolled areas became far more prevalent.... Beach "estates".... "The search"...
So those stats prove nothing either way.... Only the common sense factor of more eyes, more cameras, more people, more splashing these days can be taken into account...
And as far as "clear water", was he attacked out the back, or in the soup? Was it within 400m of rocks? Was it an incoming tide? Had it rained in the previous 24 hours? Was there bait fish or migrating sealife in the region? Was he wearing jewelry? Did he urinate whilst paddling therefore leaving a burly trail? It's Nothing like main beach where a guy swam next to discharging storm water... And I still haven't come across anything on the autopsy re' that one.... FR, do you have a link re' that? Was it proven beyond doubt that it was a GW... I'm interested (if you have a factual link and not heresay).

Bottomline - he's dead... A tragedy... But he died doing what he loved.... He knew the risks when he took up surfing..... Drowning, board injuries, broken bones, gashes, infection, skin cancer, jellyfish, stonefish, sharks, torn ligaments.....
I just hope he wasn't a cotton wool surfer....
Maybe we do need wave pools.......

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udo Tuesday, 10 Feb 2015 at 2:58pm

Fitzroy, what sizes are you seeing juveniles or full grown ?

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fitzroy-21 Tuesday, 10 Feb 2015 at 3:03pm

Mostly in the 3-4M range and in good healthy condition. A couple of regulars too, distinctive scars and marks. Mostly cruising and not showing any aggressive like behavior, but I have the luxury of being in a boat when I see them. For the first time I can remember I'm starting to get an uneasy feeling about surfing the reef on my own.

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mk1 Tuesday, 10 Feb 2015 at 3:02pm

If its more people in the water from the 80's onward (linear) than the increased attacks should also be linear over that period, but without checking the stats it seems to have had an exponential increase,,, bearing in mind BB's comment on not enough data to actually draw conclusions from, which is a whole other issue.

Anecdotally it seems to have hit a new level in recent years and the fisherman on here are attesting to that.

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freeride76 Tuesday, 10 Feb 2015 at 3:07pm

North Wall Ballina 1950's.
Beach culture and beach visitation was strong all through the 20th century.
Go look at the archives. There were huge crowds at beaches in the 20's,30's,40's,50's and 60's. Maybe more than now.
Now, why if population was increasing all through the 20th century did shark attacks decrease post 1930's across Aus then increase after 1980?

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Craig Tuesday, 10 Feb 2015 at 3:07pm

That is not the case MK1, the number of attacks per million has been following a trend less than the population. See the triangles here..

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freeride76 Tuesday, 10 Feb 2015 at 3:12pm

Burleigh 1939.

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Revelator Tuesday, 10 Feb 2015 at 3:13pm

Take a chill pill everyone, here is some perspective:
(Figures primarily from Australian Bureau of Statistics, for 2011: rounded for easy reading)

ALL deaths: ~146,000 (50:50 male:female)

Some leading causes of death per annum:

Cancer: 28,000
Heart disease: 20,000
Stroke: 11,000
Dementia/Alz: 10,000
Suicide: 2,500 (!the leading cause of death persons aged 25-44!)
Land transport: 2,000 (!the leading cause of death persons aged 1-24!)
Accidental poisoning: 1,000
Drowning: 300 (10 year average)
Murder: 250 (10 year average) (!50 per year female victims of domestic violence!)
Lightning: 8 (10 year average)
Shark attack: 7 (10 year average)

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freeride76 Tuesday, 10 Feb 2015 at 3:14pm

Craig, you must have studied basic statistics.
You'd be doing well to come up with a correlation between total attacks per decade, attacks per million and population growth based on those figures.
The facts just don't support the correlation let alone the causation being offered.

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Revelator Tuesday, 10 Feb 2015 at 3:18pm

Craig is 100% correct.

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udo Tuesday, 10 Feb 2015 at 3:16pm

Fitroy, any truth to the tale that some [redneck]commercial fishers when way offshore and out of site -do cull GWS... with power head or firearm ?

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fitzroy-21 Tuesday, 10 Feb 2015 at 3:21pm

I personally haven't seen it udo, but I have no doubt that it would happen on occasion, and not just the commercial sector either. I have heard of rec fishers doing it too.

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freeride76 Tuesday, 10 Feb 2015 at 3:18pm

Kirra 1930's.

Wonder what the recommendation is about camels increasing shark attack possibility?

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goofyfoot Tuesday, 10 Feb 2015 at 4:45pm

How's the sand!!

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velocityjohnno Wednesday, 11 Feb 2015 at 11:11pm

Beautiful pics Freeride.

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Craig Tuesday, 10 Feb 2015 at 3:27pm

Ah sorry, it looks like I hay have mis-interpreted. I think?

Yes the attacks per million has doubled from around 2.5 to 5 from 1970 to 2009.

Not an epidemic by any standards.

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barley Tuesday, 10 Feb 2015 at 3:37pm

@udo it does happen. Caught up with a couple mates in the pub last week and they were surfing a spot where a spearfisher got taken last year and they saw this boat a bit out the back fishing.neck minnet the boat makes a beeline for the lineup and as he pulls up one of the fishos holds up a half eaten big schnapper..reckons they couldnt get any whole fish in the boat.well half the crowd scatter and half stay out.rumor is its the same shark as last year,same markings etc and its been sniffing around again for a couple months..wouldnt be surprised if it soon goes forever.

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fitzroy-21 Tuesday, 10 Feb 2015 at 3:47pm

Definitely barley, I won't deny i've killed quite a number of sharks in my time, from small to massive, commercially, recreation fishing and tournaments, just never a GW. People from all sectors do it, they just are no longer vocal about it due to the stigma attached to it now days.

freeride76's picture
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freeride76 Tuesday, 10 Feb 2015 at 3:31pm

But it exposes the folly of using population growth as a hypothesis to explain the increase in shark attacks.

it's just not supported by the facts.

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blindboy Tuesday, 10 Feb 2015 at 3:42pm

When it comes to GWs I am not sure that there are any facts. The research is thin on the ground and the anecdotal reports from divers and fishermen are not systematic or, in some cases, likely to be completely reliable. Given that, it is very difficult to justify any policy other than laissez faire. This is hard for those close to the events to accept but sometimes we just need to acknowledge that the best policy is to do nothing.

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barley Tuesday, 10 Feb 2015 at 3:46pm

@freeride its good to see you call bullshit on that theory and prove it.seems like a few of the conservationists theorys are just that. Not facts at all.on one hand they say sharks are super intelligent then they say mistaken identity.then oh its because more people go to the beaches nowadays.everyone knows one way to reduce the likelyhood of an attack but it will never happen legally.

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fitzroy-21 Tuesday, 10 Feb 2015 at 3:49pm

I've voiced it many times before, if they want to be serious about the research, they need to put in the $ for sonic, satellite and pop-up tagging.

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mk1 Tuesday, 10 Feb 2015 at 4:04pm

Craig - its this half decade that we are in now that is standing out for me. It's not a developed trend yet but its heading in a direction that seems like a structural change on prior rates.

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happyasS Tuesday, 10 Feb 2015 at 4:16pm

mk1...on face value it'd seem that way. but its the impossibly small rates of attack (i.e. whole integers) that make deciphering any cause or correlation due to one factor or another nearly impossible from this data. the "upward" curve at the end whilst it looks like there might be something there is belied by the lack of data points supporting it. blindboy commented on statistics in one of his posts....agree Fitzroy...money for science is the key. BTW is amazing what "proper" scientific research will discover about stuff they weren't even looking for.

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simba Tuesday, 10 Feb 2015 at 4:28pm

Yeah fitzy more dollars put in to research and develop a shark deterrent for beaches and surfers.Seems like the problem sharks are the gws and i wonder what the stats will be in 10 years time assuming all the juvenile sharks are increasing in numbers and growing in size.

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fitzroy-21 Tuesday, 10 Feb 2015 at 4:40pm

I have had a little bit to do with CSIRO and Dr Julian Pepperell with the tagging of marlin over the decades.The info gathered has been incredible and has raised more questions than answers, but the answers have been really interesting particularly with movements. Sure it takes decades and will take many more, but it's the only way I know of to get info.

I also did a bit of work with Townsville JCU and the tagging of Tiger Sharks off the northern GBR,. Some of the data back from that was pretty interesting too.

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mk1 Tuesday, 10 Feb 2015 at 5:01pm

HappyasS, potentially it is too small to have statistical relevance but that would take another level of statistical analysis - are you applying some rules of thumb to the data to know that or just saying "population is big, attack events small , therefore change in attacks around current levels not relevant." ? If so you may be taking statistics in vain as well.

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blindboy Tuesday, 10 Feb 2015 at 7:46pm

mk1 there is no level of statistical analysis that can find a trend in very rare events scattered in time and space.

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velocityjohnno Wednesday, 11 Feb 2015 at 11:18pm

That almost sounds stochastic.

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benski Thursday, 12 Feb 2015 at 10:32am

Not sure that's true blindboy. There are plenty of ways to model rare events with zero inflated distributions (among other things). It would be challenging with this application, no doubt about it, but I reckon it'd be quite possible. If it hasn't been done already I reckon it'd make an interesting PhD actually.

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blindboy Thursday, 12 Feb 2015 at 10:37am

I probably should have included the word "reliably" in that comment benski. You can model anything if you try hard enough but what you end up with is a wide distribution of possible outcomes with very little difference in their probabilities. You might as well guess!

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benski Thursday, 12 Feb 2015 at 11:15am

Yeah maybe I'm underestimating the rarity of the event and overestimating statistical modelling for rare events but I think you could get some reliability too, particularly if you just wanted to identify plausible correlates.

Obviously reliability (more particularly accuracy and precision) wouldn't be as high as with a well designed observational study with easily collectable data, but you could do much better than an educated guess. With a bit of thought into the data collection and then applying an appropriate method I think you'd do alright. Get the data collection right and I think you could make a good start.

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fishnsurf Tuesday, 10 Feb 2015 at 7:01pm

My condolences to the family of this man.
It wasn't anyones fault . It can't be stopped.
The ocean still feels like somewhere not dominated by man, It is best left this way.

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Sheepdog Tuesday, 10 Feb 2015 at 8:44pm

Fr.. How often were those crowds there? To even have a camera at the beach in the 1930s, let alone camels,,,,,, would suggest it was public holidays, more than likely xmas.... These days, at 6am in the morning in april, , you have 200 mung beans doing public stretches on the council supplied stretching devices in the beach park alone..... That's before you even get to the water....

And in the photo's supplied, you can see the lifesavers, which goes back to my point - how many attacks in lifesaver patrolled areas?

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Coops70 Tuesday, 10 Feb 2015 at 8:47pm

Dolphin fish getting caught off the beach down my way (port Stephens ) marlin in close, warm wAter means sharks in close too, toes up! And heads down!

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seaman-staines Tuesday, 10 Feb 2015 at 9:11pm

It would be an interesting exercise to see if there was some potential reason this poor soul was chosen by the shark when by all accounts there were a few potential victims nearby including one who claimed the shark swam past him first.

Just basic things like board size, shape and colour, the posture/position of victim and those nearby, proximity to land/whitewater, wetsuit and wetsuit colour etc. Could be something gained from this.

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lostdoggy Tuesday, 10 Feb 2015 at 10:03pm

Well, no one is wearing wetsuits up here at the moment. And there aren't any seals around either. But I have thought about this in more of a coincidental way. Say, if this surfer had spilled toothpaste on his shirt, then taken the time to wash up and ended up in the water ten minutes later. Would the shark take the same person.

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Albat Ross Tuesday, 10 Feb 2015 at 11:45pm

I agree SS, the more data gathered from these events the more we can develop understandings of what leads to them and develop tech or good habits to mitigate the risk. What about diet too? Sharks have such a powerful sense of smell and surely if they re picking up the scent of a mammal that has consumed fish/seafood then it may be similar to that of say a seal? With sharks having such an exceptional sense of smell surely there must be a way to deter them with smells that they cannot stand, I have researched a little on the "dead shark scent" repellent but it seems to lack sufficient ongoing research and development, there must be solutions to this apparent problem and surely a combination from all aspects would yield a desirable outcome both from an ecological and a threat to human life perspective?

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happyasS Tuesday, 10 Feb 2015 at 10:01pm

mk1, yes i believe the "upward exponential curve" data as presented by Craig's graph may not be relevant to any structural change in GWS patterns. the data points prior to 2000 were so low that its nearly impossible to say whether the upwards trend started in 1960 or 2000. prior to 2000 it kind of just hovered around the same attacks per population marker. sure since 2000 we are starting to see an upwards trend in the number of attacks but is this a structural change? maybe? id like to see a curve of shark attacks versus number of surfers/divers/beach goers over the last 2 decades. population growth is one thing...number of people in the deeper (+5m water) could be more relevant. for me - lots of variables - not much data.

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Albat Ross Wednesday, 11 Feb 2015 at 12:49am

Along the stretch of coast from the NSW/QLD border up the gold coast, across the stradbroke islands, moreton, sunshine coast and onwards North why is there no increase in attacks when these areas, particularly stradbroke and moreton islands notorious and well known shark populated areas? Is the shark management program the key reason or is it geographical location as this stretch is typically a large bay further from the continental shelf and deeper waters? there are nets & drum lines placed and monitored along this stretch also and have been in place since around the 60's, it is also noted that similar programs are in place in some locations in NSW popular beaches seasonally (unknown which beaches? assume Sydney area??) and also in South African beaches, all with very positive statistics and proven effectiveness, there is a lot of info and data to read through and I have not analysed the entire document but here is a link to the PDF document of the Report released
http://www.google.com.au/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=2&ved=0C...

*There are suspect numbers regarding white sharks (maybe toned down given the general public outcry that results when these protected species are killed?) on the figures shown in the graphs of which species were caught on drum line and in nets. However, statistically fatal attacks from sharks are very low in comparison to the NSW coast which shares the same waters, especially with comparison to attacks from GWS to other species.

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Sugoiclothing Wednesday, 11 Feb 2015 at 1:02am

So heavy. Wanna give my condolences to his family & friends.

Man I went and surfed BrokenHead last weekend, day before I was going to surf my mate said there's been talk of a 4m Tiger hanging round. We all no it's breeding ground at those rocks at broken. Anyway surfed for a hour then life guards waving his hands frantically telling us to come in. Tells us a 3m plus tiger and two pups were seen right next to us. So there is a lot of activity going on and a few big tigers around.

There coming in close cause maybe everywhere is fished out. I don't no what to do I still say cull the bastards!

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simba Wednesday, 11 Feb 2015 at 6:43am

Dont know if this has been posted yet but how lucky/unlucky is this dude,was wearing a sharkbanz that seemed to work the first encounter.........first encounter at shelley.....

http://www.goldcoastbulletin.com.au/lifestyle/pets-and-wildlife/man-who-...

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udo Wednesday, 11 Feb 2015 at 8:49am

Ah o.k. so he wore his sharkbanz and he believes it dettered a large shark......then not long after he surfs again in the same area...without it .... how could he forget to wear it ?
I know I couldn't.
its emits some sort of magnetic wank....it attaches to your wrist.....how much time does the wrist spend in the water.... really only when your paddling the ankle would be a better place for it ?

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goofyfoot Wednesday, 11 Feb 2015 at 7:48am

The recent attacks certainly haven't affected numbers of people surfing on the morn-pen. Last night the car park at Rye was full. Surf was shit too

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ACB__ Wednesday, 11 Feb 2015 at 9:16am

People probably feel safer paddling out in crowded surf than for solo earlies or LAGO's

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freeride76 Wednesday, 11 Feb 2015 at 9:46am

Be interesting to see how this affects crowds during the upcoming swell cycle.
More bumpings and sightings now coming to light at Lennox over the past couple weeks.
I've been chased out of the water at the Point 3 or 4 times in the past couple years by big sharks.
Saw a very large shark swim right up the outside of the line-up within metres of surfers last winter.

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freeride76 Wednesday, 11 Feb 2015 at 11:12am

I could only find the abstract but it sure would be interesting to read the whole paper.
Stu, reckon you could ask Barry Bruce or Kent if we could get access to this?

CURTIS, T.H. & BRUCE, B. & CLIFF, G. & DUDLEY, S.J. & KLIMLEY, P.A. & KOCK, A.A. & LEA, R.N. & LOWE, C.G. & MCCOSKER, J.E. & SKOMAL, G.B. & WERRY, J.M. & WEST, J.G. (2012)
Responding to the risk of white shark attack: Updated statistics, prevention, control methods and recommendations. In: Global Perspectives on the Biology and Life History of the Great White Shark, ed. Michael L. Domeier, CRC Press, Boca Raton, FL: 477-509
Keyword time: rezent
Described species: Carcharodon carcharias
Abstract: Unprovoked attacks by sharks on humans are traumatic events that may sometimes have tragic consequences. One of the species most commonly associated with shark attacks is the White Shark (Carcharodon carcharias), the world’s largest predatory fish. The White Shark’s seasonal distribution along some coastlines and natural predatory tactics provide ample potential for interactions with humans utilizing the ocean, and its large size gives it the potential to inflict serious injuries if an attack is initiated. Unprovoked attacks by White Sharks on humans, however infrequent, tend to draw significant and often exaggerated attention from the media and general public, and pressure is often placed on local governmental organizations (public safety, law enforcement, fisheries agencies, etc.) to respond in some manner to prevent further attacks. The purpose of this chapter is to review records of White Shark attacks and provide recommendations to help organizations make informed decisions when responding to White Shark attacks. Included are facts on White Shark biology, attack statistics, and a review of response plans that have been implemented in various sites around the world. The recommendations are intended to help reduce sensationalistic, irrational, or ineffective responses by decision makers and benefit the beach-going public as well as vulnerable White Shark populations.

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stunet Wednesday, 11 Feb 2015 at 11:27am

Have sent a request to Kent. I'll let you know what his reply is.

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Craig Wednesday, 11 Feb 2015 at 11:28am

Here you go Steve, linked are two articles:

Responding to the Risk of White Shark Attack Updated Statistics, Prevention, Control Methods, and Recommendations... https://www.dropbox.com/s/08pdqz5h47iajs0/12_Curtis%20et%20al_Global%20P...

Public Perception and Understanding of Shark Attack Mitigation Measures in Australia ... https://www.dropbox.com/s/43vng4zgvhlmtth/whiteshark.pdf?dl=0

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freeride76 Wednesday, 11 Feb 2015 at 12:09pm

Couple of interesting quotes:

1: . Thus, attacks in surf zones by
juvenile White Sharks are unlikely to represent an attack scenario supportive of the mistaken identity
theory proposed by Tricas and McCosker (1984) and McCosker (1985).

2: The significant rise in attacks attributed to White Sharks in the 2000s cannot be accounted for
by increasing population and sea-based recreational lifestyle changes alone. The rise equates to
over a doubling of the rate of attacks per million persons since the 1990s.

3:The second, and more common, motivation to attack is hunger. Humans have rarely been consumed
by White Sharks. However, the behavior of White Sharks during attacks on humans frequently
reflects their known predatory behaviors. Predatory strategies and prey preferences
consequently vary depending on where sharks occur. Therefore the behavior of White Sharks during
attacks on humans may not always reflect pinniped-predation strategies. Elucidating the reasons
why White Sharks attack humans across the range of shark habitats and their behavior during and
after attack sequences is a fertile area for new research that may provide some clues as to how to
further minimize the risk of White Shark attack.

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Clivus Multrum Wednesday, 11 Feb 2015 at 1:03pm

We can bandy stats and theories around until the proverbial cows come home but nothing will happen until the Government gets on board - with sane, sensible decisions, made at appropriate times, that reflect the mandate of the people, not insensible decisions made at inappropriate times. For all its faults, at least the WA approach involved Government action. That's a positive step. Not unlike the first step HC Gleeson took on the foot of a well known Peninsula many years ago. Now look at the place!! My view, peeps need to push their local member, and their local elected politician, into every known nook and cranny until we get a better understanding of the situation. Noahs are always out there. What we need is the fat cats in Canberra to splash some cash and gets some answers. Make it rain, Abbott. You've got time.

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liquid-destination Wednesday, 11 Feb 2015 at 1:17pm

I was told by someone that works for the government at the moment on Great White shark research that they estimate there to be 1000 adult great whites on the east coast of Australia. They know this from taking samples and seeing the gene pool. They know how many are related and can estimate the population from there. From memory what determined an adult which is usually over 3 metres is they begin to feed on mammals. He also said their feeding zone is basically just behind the breakers, shallow waters. If we take the east coast being from Fraser to the NSW/VIC border somewhere, that is about 1700kms?? So one adult shark every 1.7kms. Even if it is 1 every 2kms.... Not to mention the "juveniles" that are only 2 to 3 metres long! I was calling bullshit on this but he was pretty adamant about it. If this is the case climbing up ladders ain't so bad after all.

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50young Wednesday, 11 Feb 2015 at 1:24pm

hate to tell you but East coast of Australia is from the tip of the cape to bottom of Vic. closer to 18,000 Klm

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Craig Wednesday, 11 Feb 2015 at 1:31pm

Um, 18,000km is wave over-cooked. From Cape York to say the border is approx 3,500km.

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udo Wednesday, 11 Feb 2015 at 1:23pm

Didn't somebody ..Jaques Coustea or his son estimate there was only 1800 GWS left world wide around 15 years ago
Meanwhile Marouba closed due to large shark sighting.

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udo Wednesday, 11 Feb 2015 at 1:31pm

ABC: are reporting a GWS is responsible for Tadashis death and beaches in the area remain closed.

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simba Wednesday, 11 Feb 2015 at 2:15pm

some might find this interesting....

http://www.csiro.au/Outcomes/Oceans/Marine-Life/CSIRO-shark-research-ind...

As for 15 years ago white nos might have been down but so were humpbacks and now look at the population,wouldnt be surprised if whites and humpbacks have a similar breeding cycle and if thats so theres probably a shit load of small and medium whites coming thru.

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Sheepdog Wednesday, 11 Feb 2015 at 4:36pm

I'd say you're onto it, simba.... And here is something that ties into free rides stats, re' less attacks from the mid 30s/40s through to the 80s, and then a gradual increase from the 80s onwards..... (I still think more ocean users have to be taken into account, but this link does prove interesting)
This link shows whaling peaking in the mid 1930s, and continuing through to 1978 in Australia, when the last whaling stations were closed..... So, between 1940ish and 1978, the whale population was decimated... Whaling for humpbacks was stopped in 1965, when the world population of humpbacks was critical.... 1978 saw the end of sperm whale hunting.....
So...... As of the 1980s, numbers have increased....And in 1986, the International Whaling Commission moratorium on commercial whaling came into place.
http://www.environment.gov.au/marine/marine-species/cetaceans/whaling

But i still think we need to keep our objective hats on...... Surfing is still an incredibly safe pastime....But stuff happens....... More people die from accidents at work, or drink driving, or football, or even getting fat and sitting on a couch.....
Last year, 3 young guys died in a week playing football......
http://edition.cnn.com/2014/10/02/us/new-york-football-player-death/

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Blowin Wednesday, 11 Feb 2015 at 8:11pm

Not to mention that post WW2 more and better boats were available due to war surplus . The war pushing the development of boats along enabled fishermen to hammer stocks with greater efficiency, not to mention the post war population explosion placing more pressure on fish and shark stocks as food. Sharks didn't receive the kind of deferential treatment they receive these days. It wasn't till the green movement gained traction that shark numbers had a chance to recover. Then with the protection on Pointers brought into play.....

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freeride76 Wednesday, 11 Feb 2015 at 8:26pm

I think that is the most logical conclusion.

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mikehunt207 Wednesday, 11 Feb 2015 at 10:08pm

RIP Japanese surfer. But look at yourselves like a bunch of panicing passengers on a sinking ship esp now its on the east coast. There are so many people in the ocean everyday, the surf has never been so crowded in case you had not noticed.Statistically your still way more likely to be killed by a hippo (a hundredfold+ compared to a couple of shark deaths worldwide each year) or even a cow!. But sharks make big news, a journo (real journo ) mate said it was the biggest news story they could get other than homegrown terrorists. Or is it just the sharks have said "fuck these humans are out of control, they are everywhere cleaning all the fish out of the ocean, nobody is safe, maybe we need to cull them". No proof it was a white either.

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bren Wednesday, 11 Feb 2015 at 10:14pm

This is what I hate about surfers... you speculate about what you know nothing about. As a surfer my whole life that has a double degree in marine science, drives boats and dives for a living I know the bullshit you all talk you see a fin, water displacement lr a dark shape and suddenly its a white. Surfers always overcall a sharks size (the ones that bother tp dive), If you bothered to take an interest in what is under the water you will know that sharks don't just explode in numbers its impossible due to the way they reproduce. there are four on the planet that will eat you (i bet you dont even know which ones they are) and any whalers you have seen you are safe as houses around. We are looking for them harder, people are hallucinating them more than ever whilst surfing, and we have more frigged oceans than ever before. Surfing is not your God given right, civilisation ends at the water line beyond that we all enter the food chain and not always at the very top. I have surfed this area for years, there have always been fuckloads of sharks here. If you don't want to accept the risk buy a skateboard.

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seaman-staines Wednesday, 11 Feb 2015 at 10:23pm

I guess it must have been a 3 foot Wobbegong that took old mates legs off in one go then.

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Blowin Thursday, 12 Feb 2015 at 12:58am

Good to have you on board Bren. It's all been squabbling by amateurs till you arrived. You'll have to fill us all in on the reasons for the increased attacks and how we can prevent them . Then you'll have to inform all the other marine biologists that have no concrete explanations either. Don't know why you didn't speak up earlier.

What sort of diving do you do ?

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Sheepdog Thursday, 12 Feb 2015 at 11:34am

" there are four on the planet that will eat you (i bet you dont even know which ones they are) and any whalers you have seen you are safe as houses around."

So you are saying that one is safe as houses around a ten foot whaler, or a bronze whaler? Correct me if I'm wrong, but a bull shark is a whaler, right? Hmmmmm.......
http://www.dpi.nsw.gov.au/fisheries/recreational/saltwater/sw-species/br...

Anyway, the semantics around "there are four on the planet that will eat you" is quite interesting....
Bren, let's get this clear from the start, I'm not for a cull...... Ok..... On the news, a woman just survived a death adder bite, and we're not all running down the road with clubs.....
Surfing and swimming is a recreation where we enter a foreign domain for enjoyment... I think it shows our disconnect with nature that we are so arrogant, we consider killing apex predators that get in the way of a "good time"... We cringe at people shooting endangered tigers, lions, elephants, but when it comes to sharks in australia.... Nimby hypocrites....
Now, your 4 sharks - Tiger, Whaler, white, hammerhead - several types of whalers so 4 is scientifically incorrect.... Blue sharks, makos, threshers, white tips and black tips have been known to attack during deep sea sinking of war ships.... Does that count as "eating"?

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bren Thursday, 12 Feb 2015 at 6:00pm

I don't know where you get your information from but its not correct. Hammerheads are not man eaters neither threshers, mako, black tip, or blue sharks. People can be in the water around them quite safely. The other man eating shark is the oceanic whitetip look it up you are unlikely to see it because it patrols the mid ocean. I have been in the water with bronzies that have been up to around the size you are talking no problem. People spend a lot of money to see all the abovr sharks in fact. Bulls are a type of whaler in the reqium shark family as are the oceanic white tips. Surfers see the ocean as a set of ramps to slide along and miss the bigger picture

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udo Thursday, 12 Feb 2015 at 6:35pm

Hammerheads are not maneaters......isn't there 30 odd documented attacks on humans from hammerheads or do they come under the mistaken identity nibble
bren your degrees are they "kellogs" ones ?

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bren Thursday, 12 Feb 2015 at 7:09pm

yeah promise you udo you are the sort of base level intelligence I am talking about. And seeing as I noticed you edited your original reply I will resond here too, delve a bit deeper into what constitutes an attack.

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bren Thursday, 12 Feb 2015 at 7:13pm

please direct any more criticisms at my later post

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Sheepdog Thursday, 12 Feb 2015 at 8:01pm

Bren, no spoilt little uni twat can tell me where to post my reply... I'll conitue to post under where you said bronze whalers are no risk..... That proves to me you have no idea.... here's a fact sheet from the Qld museum, stating several attacks off SURF BEACHES by the bronze whaler..
file:///C:/Users/Kenneth/Downloads/fact-sheet-dangerous-sharks.pdf

You don't really have a degree, do you, bren... I started off respectfully to you, which is what I do, but when i realize I am dealing with someone going through a messy split up, and their self therapy is trolling for a brawl, I generally give them one chance to put up or shut up..... ;)
Here's another link to the bronze whaler, showing 3 out of 10 attacks in NZ are bronzys, and are ranked 6th in UNPROVOKED attacks....

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Copper_shark
You can fool all of the people some of the time, bren...... Go back to school, mate

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bren Thursday, 12 Feb 2015 at 10:17pm

cool sheepdog its obvious you have a hard time reading and have most likely never been to school. The thing about bull sharks and broze whalers is they are both grey and easily mistaken for each other particularly in a high stress situation like a bite. I can see you know how to search google so try typing that in too. Steve Smith, Danny Bucher and Peter Harrison were all my mentors at uni. Thanks for taking the time to respond.

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Sheepdog Thursday, 12 Feb 2015 at 7:11pm

That's just the documented ones, udo.....
I'm sure bren would've jumped off this canoe and scratched his belly

Seen some heavy shit with hammerheads....... I swear they are smarter than what we give them credit for.. had one harass the crap out of me when I was bommie hopping in a little dinghy for coral trout... Followed me all the way back to the big boat....
Bren, In regards to semantics, when you say "eat you", does that mean eat the whole of you, or just a limb? Because 99% of the time, even with whites, the whole body isn't eaten......

At least 32 attacks by black tips.....
5 known attacks by threshers - gotta be pretty unlucky with that species, usually divers losing a chunk due to their smaller mouth..
Mako shark - at least 40 attacks with 3 confirmed fatalities, by the shortfin variety..
Bronze whaler - 20 + attacks with at least 3 fatalities, but due to similar structure to other whalers, more fatalities may be attributed..... Last confirmed fatality was in 2011, Bunker bay....
Bull shark - more attacks than any other shark... many fatalities
Blue shark - 13 documented attacks... 4 documented fatalities...

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Sheepdog Thursday, 12 Feb 2015 at 7:18pm

BTW, bren, no shark is a "man eater"......That's just hollywood headlines.... It's bullshit..... They don't swim around, see a "man", and go "wow... a man.... I wanna eat that man..." A bloke with your credentials should know that... It's mistaken identity.... Otherwise no one would swim in the fuckn ocean, ever.......

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bren Thursday, 12 Feb 2015 at 7:23pm

.

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bren Thursday, 12 Feb 2015 at 7:22pm

again the exact same sort of bullshit stories I would expect from a surfer. Eat you means bite unprovoked. Your shark attacks include spear fishing and collection attacks which are not the same thing as these are in baited condition, and your stats includes planes and boats crashed in the middle of the ocean where "cleaners" show up. Most grey sharks are easily misidentified when the bull shark is the culprit. A lot of these sharks swim past you daily and live a very peacful existence alongside humans. Again direct further cricisms to my later post

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bren Wednesday, 11 Feb 2015 at 10:17pm

and then go fuck yourself

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velocityjohnno Wednesday, 11 Feb 2015 at 11:38pm

Gotta respect solid, scientific debate.

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kaiser Wednesday, 11 Feb 2015 at 10:37pm

Ok bren, here's a scenario. Man is in water, around the line of the breaking waves. No reports of surface disturbance. Man is then hit with one fell swoop of an attack that launches him, having already removed his legs with one bite. Knowing what you know about sharks, what type of shark would you expect is responsible?

The size of shark required to inflict such an attack narrows it right down, then analyse the mode of attack. No sawing, no gnawing... just full blown explosive power

Edit... while typing, SS beat me to it, and added sarcasm... touche

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kaiser Wednesday, 11 Feb 2015 at 10:31pm

Also, reading the stats on shark attacks, it has become evident that Wobbegongs are cranky mofos. Thank Christ they don't have big teeth

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frog Wednesday, 11 Feb 2015 at 10:54pm

A few perspectives:
- surf related internet forum have highlighted / recorded that shark sightings and encounters are way more common than I ever imagined years ago simply by providing a mean to share them with a wider audience
- the number of attacks compared to encounters is very low - sharks observe us but don't immediately think of us as food and are wary of the unknown
- in the process of growing to adulthood, they kill innumerable fish, rays and eventually larger prey - that is their familiar territory and comfort zone
- they are surprisingly stuck in their ways otherwise it would be carnage daily at our beaches.
But a key shift in the equation may be occurring with populations growing leading to:
- confidence in numbers (sharks in higher numbers are often more aggressive - e.g. Reunion Island)
- familiarity with humans (who are not hunting / fishing for them) - Cage Diving, surfers everywhere etc. breeding contempt
A long time ago Phillipe Coustea in the 1960s I think described his only encounter with a Great White in the open ocean when diving. It spotted the strange back clad divers with yellow tanks and evacuated its bowels and sped off out of sight. It looked scared. It would never have seen anything like them ever before.
These days many GW have seen a lot of us and would be comfortable to check us out very closely or worse. The scientists seem to strongly resist the concept that behaviours can change over time and look at the whole issue based on theories of long term behaviour patterns that may be shifting.
No cage diving would help and keeping GW numbers at levels where they are not too prolific. The risk level has shifted up a gear for water recreation. Those ocean swimmers way out off the surf line seem to me to be very high risk.

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velocityjohnno Wednesday, 11 Feb 2015 at 11:43pm

May you have many good waves in the afterlife Tadashi, and in the next life.

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dellabeach Thursday, 12 Feb 2015 at 8:35am

What about we start a thread where shark encounters are reported with information about location, time, tide, wetsuit/surfboard colours,etc. Had Jabez Reitman reported his encounter at Shelley Beach two weeks ago, others, myself included would definitely consider surfing elsewhere for a while. The reports would be one way of giving the heads up to fellow surfers as well as gathering information about shark behaviour. Reporting sightings in the daily surf report would be helpful. Haven't seen any for about a year surfing between Burleigh and Boulders on a daily basis. Gentlemen,who's going to get the ball rolling?

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shaun Thursday, 12 Feb 2015 at 9:57am

Yes, Yes,Me, Me, I will!! Sighted a 5m. white yesterday morning at my local at about 10 am 0.4 meters on an out gong tide, weather -hot and steamy, foggy, creepy, but not uncommon. Better stay away for awhile chaps, stay well away , perhaps you could be link it to the respective areas surf forcasts. ex: offshore with 3 to 4 ft swell with 6ft tiger shark on the sets, to dangerous to surf go lawn bowling.

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udo Thursday, 12 Feb 2015 at 9:17am

bren, nice ...a double degree in marine science and 8 hours after its been confirmed by others with degrees in marine science what was responsible for the fatal attack you write that ?

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freeride76 Thursday, 12 Feb 2015 at 10:52am

I think Bren is making it up.

Or he's incredibly ignorant about which he claims to know so much about.

"A GREAT White shark at least three metres long was responsible for Monday's fatal attack on Tadashi Nakahara, the Department of Primary Industries has confirmed.

The identification was made by a Fisheries NSW shark expert who conducted a forensic analysis of the victim to estimate the size of the shark's jaw and gaps between its teeth.

The expert also studied footage from the Coastalwatch surf website livestream camera trained on Shelly beach, which documented the attack."

No-one said GWS are exploding in numbers Bren, the sober talk here is of a steady increase in juvenile/early adult GWS .

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Rabbits68 Thursday, 12 Feb 2015 at 10:57am

Cheers for posting that factual update FR.

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brutus Thursday, 12 Feb 2015 at 12:58pm

people seem amazed that there are more and more shark attacks on our coasts.....

when you consider that the sharks environment has changed so radically in our lifetime...with overfishing , Fisherman berleying everywhere.watertemps are rising as per " into the red...."......we have been messing with their eco system....be carefull it might come back and bite ya!!

Oh shit that's right it already has!

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freeride76 Thursday, 12 Feb 2015 at 8:22pm

That POV : that the rise in shark attacks is some kind of karmic payback for overfishing is directly contradicted by the facts Maurice.

The recovery in White Shark populations is directly related to abundant food sources. Inshore commercial fin-fishing effort is quite low across large tracts of NSW, including Ballina. Juvenile GWS are inshore species; they will hang around locally abundant fish stocks and healthy ecosystems.
Pinniped populations across southern Aus are also healthy and increasing. There's plenty of tucker for GWS.
As shark expert and marine biologist Daniel Boucher says:

Marine ecologist and shark expert Dr Daniel Bucher said nutrients from recent rainfall would have poured out of river mouths such as Newcastle Harbour and become a sea cafe for invertebrates.

That would attract bait fish and the food chain could continue up to fish such as tailor, mackerel and tuna, which would then attract the larger fish and sharks.

"It is just the perfect mix of environmental factors," Dr Bucher said. "It is very patchy, and it can change in a day, but while the nutrients and warm water are there, the bait fish will be too.

"It is a good sign the ecosystem is healthy and if the top predators can be supported by that ecosystem, then it is flourishing."

So it's actually the reverse of what your saying.

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brutus Friday, 13 Feb 2015 at 8:42am

Gee FR76 ..I fear for your powers of reasoning....
"It is a good sign the ecosystem is healthy and if the top predators can be supported by that ecosystem, then it is flourishing."

So it's actually the reverse of what your saying.

I am saying that the eco systems have changed......water is warmer ,the eco system that sharks have used to for millions of years has changed a lot in our lifetimes.......like do you seriously belive that the Tuna Mackerel stocks are the same........do you think that a Coral trout caught in Sydney was ah ....not a sign of a change in the eco system...

10 years ago living in WA I have a clear recollection of when the warm current came from down from the NW bringing Marlin and Dolphin fish to yallingup/the Farm...never been seen......Tigers also came down...and then the last 10 years or so...been a few shark attacks over there in the last 10 years....

So FR 76...I offer a changing ecosystem as part reason for more attacks now then before......

Learn to live with ya new mates....man up or give up or move somewhere else !

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bonza Friday, 13 Feb 2015 at 9:34am

Further comments / article in relation to Dr Bucher:

Shark sightings not indicative of shark numbers says marine biologist
Source:
ABC Regional News. 01/21/2015.

Scientific data shows that shark numbers are not increasing, despite several shark sightings on the New South Wales coast.

Beach nets along the coastline indicate an overall decrease in sharks caught over the past 20 years.

Senior Lecturer of Marine Biology and Fisheries at Southern Cross University, Dr Daniel Bucher said the increased interest in shark sightings around this time of year is always overblown.

"The problem with looking at sheer numbers of sightings is that [approach] doesn't take into account the other variable, which is effort," he said.

"That effort refers to how many people were out there, how hard were they looking and how easy was it to see the sharks.

"We tend to forget over winter how many sharks we saw the previous year."

Beach meshing projects in Queensland and New South Wales have consistently reported falls in the population.

"That would indicate that there are actually less sharks now than there were, say 20 years ago," Dr Bucher told 666 ABC Canberra.

Fearful fascination with sharks

Dr Bucher said shark sightings during January had created a fearful fascination among the community.

"We tend to be fearful of things we don't understand too well and cultures that have had a lot to do with the sea have generally shown a lot more respect for the shark," he said.

"People from cultures who don't have a lot to do with the sea are generally fearful."

Dr Bucher said while there has been a significant drop in numbers, the endangered Great White shark is hopefully coming back.

"There is evidence that there are more of the smaller individuals," he said.

"It's going to take a long time to see increases in the five-metre range because they probably live 30 to 40 years to get to that size.

"It's going to take a long time to see the cohort of younger ones get up to the bigger [sharks]."

Dr Bucher said the number of large sharks would always be limited by the food chain.

"The numbers of top predators in any environment are never going to be very big because they rely on a lot of food at the lower levels of the food chain," he said.

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bonza Friday, 13 Feb 2015 at 9:40am

another one:
Marine biologist questions value of shark nets after Newcastle beach closures
Source:
ABC Regional News. 01/19/2015.

A leading marine biologist says the presence of large sharks along Newcastle beaches is proof that shark nets do not protect swimmers.

Newcastle's beaches have been closed for nine days after an adult great white shark was spotted in the area.

There have been several more sightings of that shark and a variety of other smaller species.

There were no confirmed sightings over the weekend, and Newcastle Council is expected to make a decision this morning to reopen the beaches.

Dr Daniel Bucher from Southern Cross University says the presence of sharks in the area is positive news for the region's marine environment.

"Thank goodness it is a relatively healthy one at the moment," he said.

"Healthy environments support apex predators, no wild animal ever dies peacefully in its sleep.

"Tiger sharks and great white sharks, they feed on seals and dolphins and keep those populations in check.

"A healthy environment has large predators, they have their place, we need to live with that."

Dr Bucher says although there has only been one fatal shark attack on a meshed NSW beach since the netting was introduced in 1937, the system does more harm than good.

He says the nets are not intended to be a barrier and simply kill too much marine life.

"I really think we need to look at other ways to limit the impact of sharks on humans.

"That may just mean better beach patrols, the use of drones, and a good warning system to let people know when the sharks threaten.

"Just like is happening in Newcastle at the moment to be able to say well there is a higher risk at the moment because there is a shark in the area, stay out of the water."

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Blowin Friday, 13 Feb 2015 at 4:26pm

So Dr Bucher is saying there can't be more sharks because they're not found in the nets and that sightings aren't reliable evidence.

And Dr Bucher is also saying that the nets obviously don't work because, going on sightings , there are a lot of sharks around and they're not in the nets.

Nice self contradiction Dr Bucher.

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velocityjohnno Saturday, 14 Feb 2015 at 12:58pm

I noticed that. Also noticed he said the ecosystem is healthy around Newcastle, but there are less sharks being caught in the nets ergo there are less sharks, but sightings are up as we are putting in more effort, but despite having less sharks having sharks is healthy as they keep the populations of dolphins etc in check, I think I brained my damage.

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dellabeach Thursday, 12 Feb 2015 at 2:14pm

Shaun, I was seriously hoping that people could honestly report their shark encounters in order to warn and inform others. Of course there will be some people who will lie to personally benefit from fewer people in the water. These people are pricks and best avoided anyway. Coming in from surfing the Pass today at the same time as a local fisho/surfer was beaching his tinny. He said that recently he has never seen so many sharks between the Pass and the Wreck in all the years he has lived and worked here. He also reported very few fish, if any. Just passing on the facts.

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shaun Thursday, 12 Feb 2015 at 9:00pm

Della, sorry mate I have a hard time being serious and as for you insinuating that I am a prick, probably fucken right.
Why is it happening on the east coast? More people, throw more bait in the water and the fish will start biting, bloody logic ain't it.

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velocityjohnno Saturday, 14 Feb 2015 at 1:08pm

Hmmm, very few fish and so many sharks. I am wondering if anecdotal evidence like this is some sort of "new normal". All I can add is a fishing trip up the NW saw us hunted from location to location, 50 to 120 m of water. What would happen is that as soon as you had a fish 5-10m off its reef, something huge would hit you then you'd be wrestling the beast until the (non traced) line snapped. At every location, the first 5 minutes saw a couple of fish come up, and then it was game on. When a Pinky was brought up, a tiger the width of a Cray boat followed it, had a look, brushed my line. The remoras were shoulder high.

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barley Thursday, 12 Feb 2015 at 3:50pm

These things arent endangered anymore so why arent they taken off the list.if you look up any of the requirements for a specie to be endangered i dont think th GW meets any of these requirements. IMO therein lies the problem. All the research done on these animals in 30yrs at least and still only one proven remedy to control their behaviours. When was the last time a scientist or researcher went out to research them without encouraging them with bait, burley or chum? Encourage them to be aggressive. Maybe there is more attacks not for lack of fish but for an increase in shark numbers in specific areas? Also another reason could be the stopping of illegal sharking from our northern counterparts. Maybe they were actually having a hand in prevention by accident?
In SA so far this summer i would say there have been alot less shark sightings so far.sure we get them still but i wouldve thought not as many as previous years. A pod of orcas were recently spotted around my local i will assume its the same pod that killed the shark off neptunes.plus we have had 8 or 9 whales rock up dead on our beaches and a massive leatherback turtle..all of which is very fuckn bizarr...coincedence? I think not

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udo Thursday, 12 Feb 2015 at 5:33pm

I haven but has anyone read Vic Hislops book Sharkman ?

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cuttlefish Thursday, 12 Feb 2015 at 5:35pm

Watched an interesting shark doco a few weeks back that showed that juvenile GWS would attack bouys in the surf zone to test bite.

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Dreamer Thursday, 12 Feb 2015 at 6:17pm

Always enjoy reading articles on here, think Bren can't back up his comments and disappears just like a shark.lol. RIP peace to the surfer, died doing what he loved. I only have one question why are Eastern states allowed to have shark nets and drumlines but here in WA we get ridiculed over here for trying the same. We must be a different species over here, breed tough just like our megalon great whites not like your tadpoles,hehe

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yorkessurfer Thursday, 12 Feb 2015 at 6:43pm

I heard today that the cage diving tours off Neptune Island have had to cancel all bookings because those Killer Orca's have scattered every White Pointer out of the area.
I wonder where all those sharks will be heading next?

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Craig Friday, 13 Feb 2015 at 12:36pm
yorkessurfer wrote:

I heard today that the cage diving tours off Neptune Island have had to cancel all bookings because those Killer Orca's have scattered every White Pointer out of the area. I wonder where all those sharks will be heading next?

Very interesting news YS, I'd much rather Orcas around rather than Whites.

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bren Thursday, 12 Feb 2015 at 10:35pm

I have seen more logical and meaningful speculation on stock forums for the asx 200. What you are all trying to do is look for a hard and fast way to predict an animal with as complex habits as yourself.
I have seen posts here which seem not to be able to understand that because it was on a sunny clear water day that this was somehow completely unexpected. What conspired that day was nothing more than a usual day in the northern rivers in February. Here are some well known things about the area and sharks.
All the breaks nearby speedies, trestles, angels, backsides, boulders sharps, lennox evans etc have a massive reputation for sharks and over the years I have heard of regular sightings at all of them. Hell whites beach is not named after the sand and the hang gliders see them all the time from lennox. There is no shark explosion, the sharks have always been there this is a massively productive part of the coast, just drive through it with a fish finder.
Shelly itself tends to have a deep water gutter before the wave and is very close to the mouth of the Richmond river which as we know has a massive freshwater output particularly at this time of year when it is wet.
Fresh water floats and the saltwater creeps back in underneath or sits in holes. It's a simple halocline. Any fisherman will tell you this is a good time to fish because the big fish sit in the holes making them easy to find. Things like jelly prawns and their eggs wash out of tributeries of the catchment and the whole place goes nuts for awhile. Whether this happens at the surf break or close by, ingoing tide outgoing tide is not important because it is only a short distance for a shark to swim that is peaked up to hunt.
On top of this, now is the time in this area bull sharks go up rivers to breed and pup. Ask any fisherman the tweed is full of them right now. This means more sharks close to this area.
Geographic location needs to be considered. Yes white sharks tend to follow the whales population up and down the coast, but a lot don't. Whites love shallow water and if you look at where Ballina is it is almost at the extreme east of the country meaning any animals on their migratory routes tend to bottle neck around the corner. Wonder why Byron is such a good place to spot whales? So this also increases the chance of running into a dangerous shark.
At this time of year too when the water is warm down at Ballina it would also not be unlikely to have tiger sharks in the mix aswell. Seeing as 3.5m to 4m is such an arbitrary number when talking about sharks most people can't accurately call the size of a shark by size and tend to overcall. If it was 4m this is too big for a bull but if it was 3-3.5 this would put it in the category for all three. The oceanic whitetip is ruled out because they roam the middle of the ocean.
This was not an unexpected or unusual event, this is a high risk time to surf at this location. Surfers need to view an area not only for the ramps it creates to surf but as part of a whole system that they are not neccerarily a part of and need to make allowances for when and where they choose to surf.
Ballina is shit crowded most days of the week, but the risk is still there and surfers need to accept it. Surfers also need to embrace other appreciations of the ocean. You learn a lot from diving and listening and even more from spearfishing particularly if you are with someone that knows the area. On top of this you would think a creature with so much stigma people would pick up a book and read a bit about them. I hear so much fear and bullshit daily from surfers about sharks daily that could be so easily fixed to make life so much more relaxed about sharks. I heard it recently from a very well known pro that recently visited a wave closeby and was amazed at how little he knew.
We currently have a tagged 4m tiger very close to us that can be tracked online. I am in the water almost all daylight hours, it is a small risk each day but one i accept. I love sharks, I hate that people kill them and I hate that surfers often encourage peoples fear for their own bravado.
What needs to happen is obviously more research, more money invested in organisations like the CSIRO and a more switched on surfing community.

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silicun Thursday, 12 Feb 2015 at 9:20pm

Good to see someone on here with a bit of academic credibility.

Any chance you do book readings bren? The kids at Ballina Public would love to hear some of your books.

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velocityjohnno Saturday, 14 Feb 2015 at 1:20pm

Excellent post. Having marine science/aquaculture majors in the family, I completely agree with forming a total ecosystem view to your surfing, and how it changes over the year.

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Blowin Thursday, 12 Feb 2015 at 8:44pm

Oceanic white tips go wherever the fuck they like when they like. I've seen one rolling around on dry rocks adjacent to five foot of water attempting to eat a hooked trevally at VLF beach at the tip of NorWest Cape.

So Bren, you like spearfishing, but you hate people that kill sharks....which are fish.

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yorkessurfer Thursday, 12 Feb 2015 at 9:25pm
Blowin wrote:

Oceanic white tips go wherever the fuck they like when they like. I've seen one rolling around on dry rocks adjacent to five foot of water

I once saw a large White launch itself onto dry rocks at the base of a cliff in the Bight attempting to grab a surfer who had paddled in and climbed onto the rocks seconds before. A few of us had been watching the late arvo surf and saw the thing hammering towards this guy as he rode the whitewater in.

We started yelling and waving but the surfer was oblivious to what was happening until the shark powered in on a swell and when the wave receded the thing was fully dry for a second or two, thrashing around in a last ditch attempt to grab him. Then the next wave washed over the reef and it was gone.

Then I met this self proclaimed shark expert not long after that who was backpacking around Australia after completing her university studies in Denmark or somewhere. When I relayed that story to her she stated without hesitation in her thick European accent "It was a Dolphin!"

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goofyfoot Thursday, 12 Feb 2015 at 9:56pm

Fuck!!!

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MickyFanny Friday, 13 Feb 2015 at 9:51am

Typical bloody Danes!

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Clivus Multrum Friday, 13 Feb 2015 at 10:32am

Certainly typical of the two Danes I know: Dane Reynolds and Stretch (Dane) Reynolds.

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freeride76 Thursday, 12 Feb 2015 at 8:45pm

Not much fresh coming out of the Richmond now Bren. Fuck all rain around Lismore.
Sure North Creek and Emigrant are discoloured from the coastal showers but you'd hardly call the river running fresh right now.
It's blue as fcuking Tahiti on the incoming.

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Blowin Thursday, 12 Feb 2015 at 8:49pm

.

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bren Thursday, 12 Feb 2015 at 9:00pm

yeah nice one I can see this is like pushing shit uphill and I would prefer to invest my energies elsewhere. I am a vegetarian based purely on altruism, having been a carnivore 26 years of my life I don't force this on others. What I have loved and continue to love is the wealth of knowledge that comes from spearfishing when its done responsibly and not cleaning the reefs of species unknown to the fisher. Sharks are not fish they are sharks, if you bother to read about them they are completely different seperated by hundreds of millions of years of evolution. Start with something called a swim bladder. Have fun with your life Blowin and you too dreamin, enjoy your surfing and hopefully when you grow up you take a bit of this on board and become the sort of surfer I would like to see

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Blowin Thursday, 12 Feb 2015 at 10:21pm

This has to be a piss take.

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Damothediver Thursday, 12 Feb 2015 at 10:28pm

Hi Bren,
I am interested to know what kind of diver you are and where you dive??
I must point out that sharks are actually fish, albeit cartilaginous ( that means that there skeleton is made of cartilage) I dont profess to be some academic genius or marine biologist......I googled it hahaha look for yourself

Sorry mate one last thing..... you are an altruistic vegetarian fish killer??

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lostdoggy Thursday, 12 Feb 2015 at 9:23pm

Anyone have any ideas why Victoria seems to have gone against the grain in terms of fatalities to sharks? More surfers than ever, and more swimmers/bathers also.

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Clivus Multrum Friday, 13 Feb 2015 at 12:34am

A quick stroll around Fitzroy answers that one, Lost Doggy. Victorians have incredibly bad taste. ...check, one, two, is this thing on?

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velocityjohnno Saturday, 14 Feb 2015 at 1:42pm

Ummm, they are there. I have seen a big one while surfing a local beachie. You hear stories of ones coming through some of the name breaks, or being out the back some distance, the odd bump on a board. Like in WA, when Snapper spawn, the juvie whites tend to follow - and like in WA they like areas protected from the prevailing SW/NW winds (Cockburn Sound, The Bay, Westernport). I don't really have the local ecosystems dialled here yet, my only guess is the individuals of the populations that pass by here haven't learned to associate humans with predatory food. Whitetag, I think notes two distinct population groups in Australia, an East and West one, the West one goes as far as Neptunes/W SA then back up to Exmouth. This crew has been introducted to Tuna farms and cage diving. The East Coast, not so much as yet? There are supposedly pupping grounds in Gippsland, some big ones hang around Philip Island for the seals, seal colonies reappear near Cape Otway. Whitetag tracking of Vicco whites was pretty interesting, the beeline from PI to Cape Otway was noted. You hear of them Portland way, as well.

I think one of the SA fishermen who used to post on Swellnet mentioned the SA gilnetting fleet moving to Bass Straight - and at the same time I've heard gummies are coming back in numbers, also Portland Tuna numbers have had big years. Have seen hundreds of dolphins mid-Straight and that was magnificent, a mega-pod. You also hear of the GWS sightings on the NE coast of Tassie, I think a fellow saved his niece from a big beast some years ago.

This is all anecdotal. Not science.

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lostdoggy Saturday, 14 Feb 2015 at 3:55pm

I know they're out there. Have seen them myself and also a number of dead seals with nice big chunks taken out. Just referring to the relative lack of attacks compared to somewhere like WA.

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LukeHS Thursday, 12 Feb 2015 at 11:01pm

Meanwhile the current Federal government have slashed 27mill from the CSIRO funding for 2014-15 and a projected 114mill over the next 5yrs. So much for the smart country let alone safe and prosperous. http://www.news.com.au/finance/economy/million-government-funding-cuts-t...

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brutus Friday, 13 Feb 2015 at 9:15am

luke...this could be a ploy by our great surfing PM .....to try and reduce the number of surfers by GWS...hehe

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50young Friday, 13 Feb 2015 at 9:23am

Brutus, you could be right, everything he does seems to bite him on the ass, so here's hoping :)

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freeride76 Friday, 13 Feb 2015 at 12:25pm

"So FR 76...I offer a changing ecosystem as part reason for more attacks now then before....."

Makes no sense Maurice. If so we'd see an increase in attacks across the board. Ecosystems are changing in Victoria too right? Why no attacks there?
A changing ecosystem actually means nothing. Ecosystems are constantly changing.

Changing in which way? It might mean changing in the positive, in which case more food for sharks.
You seem to mean changing in terms of a degrading ecosystem. If the marine ecosystem here was degrading we'd be seeing less sharks, not more.

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brutus Friday, 13 Feb 2015 at 4:42pm

ahh FR76......so a changing eco system .....makes no sense and actually means nothing...ahh you for real or just pullin the pud?

tell the polar bears they don't need ice anymore........or that the great barrier reef is dying , but it won't affect the eco system when it dies...???

you don't think a changing eco system affects the animals in it?

Seems like there have been a lot of attacks in WA/East coast/SA....we hade a guy bitten here at winki a couple of years back, we have Tuna now in Portland.......we now see Orcas/humpbacks/dolphins and sharks at Bells........but we are used to em...I grew up on the west coast and have seen big whites all my life......

hows this one then...sharks have been around for..millions of years.....then their ecosystem changed....surfers started looking like seals about 50 years ago...now there's more surfers yummmmm...this might just be the start of sharks seeing surfers as food......

Eco systems are constantly changing......but ours is changing before our eyes....c'mon FR76....enough of the silliness!

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wellymon Friday, 13 Feb 2015 at 12:36pm

Been following this thread for awhile, I myself don't have too much to say as IMO its already been said here by many posters.

Here is an interesting link a good friend sent to me regarding cage diving around Stewart Island in the deep South of NZ.
Hope the link works...?

https://www.facebook.com/StopSharkCageDivingNearStewartIsland

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mick-free Friday, 13 Feb 2015 at 3:38pm

http://www.3news.co.nz/tvshows/campbelllive/shark-cages-divide-stewart-i...

nice welly here was one of the clips from that facebook page

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simba Friday, 13 Feb 2015 at 4:03pm

Yeah Welly and Mick to me its a no brainer,training sharks to look at us as a food source.........but fuk it think of the money................

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madwax Friday, 13 Feb 2015 at 2:21pm

Bren said: "This is what I hate about surfers... you speculate about what you know nothing about. As a surfer my whole life that has a double degree in marine science, drives boats and dives for a living I know ....."

Bring back Bren! Bren, please don't go - we can start a Bren page! You are swell nets answer to Corey Worthington!!!

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Dave Drinkwater Friday, 13 Feb 2015 at 2:23pm

RIP mate, i live across the road from where the attack took place. Whats totally weird i said hello to him in the surf just the day before.

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theween Friday, 13 Feb 2015 at 4:11pm

Do all the shark-huggers out there still thinking culling is a bad idea?

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morris Saturday, 14 Feb 2015 at 6:04am

Cullings a great idea mate and eventually it will be our only choice to save this already overcrowded world, who should we start with? The disabled, the poor or the unemployed?

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brutus Friday, 13 Feb 2015 at 4:43pm

yes I think culling is great...the GWS are doing a great job......

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quokka Saturday, 14 Feb 2015 at 11:13am

that's a fucked and completely insensitive comment

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brutus Saturday, 14 Feb 2015 at 12:18pm

quokka ....you want to cull sharks based on your emotional reaction to someone being killed by a shark...I am sorry I am not as emotional as you and want instant revenge and believe an emotional reaction is what is needed.....

what I said was in reference to " a culling comment" ,which I find insensitive....

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quokka Saturday, 14 Feb 2015 at 8:53pm

There's no defending a comment like that

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coopersshoot Friday, 13 Feb 2015 at 6:43pm

Hey Brutus,would you be so flippant with your comments if it was one of your hotshot surf star mates that got chomped ?

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seaman-staines Friday, 13 Feb 2015 at 6:54pm

I'm still failing to grasp the level of respect so many have for sharks, we have the ability to kill them if we need to. What is wrong with that?

Hopefully my Orca buddies keep up the good fight and clear these Great Whites out, there is some thought that they kill the GWS for fun, how do shark lovers feel about that?

"But it's nature!" they cry.....oh but so are we.

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stunet Saturday, 14 Feb 2015 at 8:49am

I can understand where you're going with this SS, yet at the same time it's a fundamentally flawed argument. Today Swellnet published an article that shows more then 8 million tonnes of plastic are thrown in the ocean each year. Clearly this cannont continue without drastic, perhaps terminal, effects on many, many species.

Yet it's us - humans - who are throwing the plastic in the ocean.

So, following your line of reasoning, it's 'natural' and hence acceptable to be discarding plastic in this way and in this maginitude.

The 'we're part of nature' argument encourages laissez faire behaviour and provides an excuse for all sorts of clearly detrimental practices. Not something I want to see, and I don't imagine you would either.

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Blowin Saturday, 14 Feb 2015 at 10:47am

A fundamentally flawed concept that we are part of nature ? Huh ?

I wouldn't say you are extending his line of reasoning . Cognitive thinking is also part of the humanity that nature has granted us through evolution. If we realise that our littering is detrimental to the environment then we will find ways to prevent it. It's a form of evolution .
Protecting the sharks initially came from humanities ability to adjust its course reactively to provide the best result for ourselves and the world on which we depend through being intrinsically involved.
Maybe one day we may also determine that too many sharks would be ultimately non beneficial for humans.
Arrogant ? Maybe. Unnatural ? Definitely not.

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quokka Saturday, 14 Feb 2015 at 8:55pm

It's called Darwinism

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seaman-staines Saturday, 14 Feb 2015 at 11:40am

My view is one of putting our survival as a priority, polluting the oceans could have an adverse affect on that so it's stupidity that we continue to do so, it also affects plenty of creatures that have no adverse affect on our life. I am by no means a person who takes killing something lightly, I feel guilt and taking the life of an animal for food but this makes me appreciate it as a source of life for me and my family and I try to be as conscientious about my decisions as practicable.

I just don't see the point of missing opportunities to reduce an obvious risk whenever we have the chance, for example a large shark hanging around the scene of a fatal attack.

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bum_acid Saturday, 14 Feb 2015 at 12:15pm

'Putting our survival as a priority' sort of goes out the window when you're talking about a bunch of middle class white dudes with a shit ton of leisure time to burn by surfing.

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freeride76 Saturday, 14 Feb 2015 at 2:04pm

He was a Japanese bloke living a humble working class life but thanks anyway for your completely irrelevant comment.

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bum_acid Sunday, 15 Feb 2015 at 3:03pm

I'm sorry but who is calling for the culling of GWS?

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seaman-staines Saturday, 14 Feb 2015 at 4:00pm

And I forgot being middle class and white was a crime.

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bum_acid Sunday, 15 Feb 2015 at 3:15pm

the only crime is thinking that blasting some shark from a boat will automatically reduce the risk of attack.

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udo Friday, 13 Feb 2015 at 7:15pm

Bren, so is Whiteshark a food delicacy for Orcas....are they targeting fins, heart, liver or any organ in particular ...or killed and left .

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barley Friday, 13 Feb 2015 at 8:24pm

How fucking obvious can the answer be? Man has culled everything else in the ocean but the apex predator is protected..how fucking dumb is that? Sure we have fucked the system buttou cant just protect the one dominant specie.thats retarded! Marine biologist/scientists are retarded.bren your full of shit...you have said that there isnt a shark explosion yet you say hangliders of lennox see them all the time and the rivers are full of them..you scientists are half the problem!!chumming them up then teasing them so you can do what?you havent found out fuck all about them except where they live.no one is saying wipe them out but fucken hell where is the common sense?

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theween Friday, 13 Feb 2015 at 9:02pm

Hear hear coopers, s-s and barley! Hopefully sanity will prevail and we start to protect OUR OWN for a change.

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quokka Saturday, 14 Feb 2015 at 8:59pm

Second that. My how majority opinion has changed since the culling argument arose during the WA drum lining policy. Good to see some fricken common sense.

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southey Friday, 13 Feb 2015 at 9:40pm

On the subject of Orca 's .
It was probably in the last 10 years that people have seen more of them in Vic waters .
However a lot of this has come with the abundance of amateur fishos with more coin to spend on more reliable rigs , which In turn they have been going further and more often off the far west coast of Vic . But in saying that people are seeing them more and more well up into bass strait .
So perhaps the more sighted larger whites that have been seen in the last few years up the East Coast have been ex vicco's which were muscled /scared from their local by orcas .
If correct and SA is now seeing similar sightings of Orcas , then this can only spell bad news for WA ....
Bren , Brute etc ..... Even Kent and Barry Bruce admit humans no fuck all about GWS, s mating , growth rate and adult lifestyles let alone average lifespan ...
To all that think that water users need to be more in tune with their surroundings especially below the surface . I've got news for you , we aren't and never will have gills .
Unless your some sort of freak free diver and spear fish at massive depths for lung bursting spells , then your cheating , be it tank of even hooker . Then your as connected to the ocean as Kenny Powers and his ski .
Don't get me started on cage operators !
As I've said before Brute , it's easy for you to get all stoic and be benevolent .
You and your generation have had the luxury of your prime in pastime/living being carried out when the oceanic waters ( from lack of regulation and environmental protection ) have been at an ebb in systemic diversity , health and stock .
All GWS prey is flourishing , be it the resurgance of Southern Snapper , Tuna , Nz fur seal , Rays , Dolphin and now whales ..... If Orca's didn't enter the fray , then we may have seen eventual medieval monster stories becoming more prevalent !
Lastly it's hard to argue against the NSW net stat .

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barley Saturday, 14 Feb 2015 at 1:49am

5yrs ago tuna was never sjghtd @yorks..now its a 200grand weekend..cleaning up..evn licoln tuna crew going to ki..700ton. But hey what do we know..not as if we out there live and breath?

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freeride76 Saturday, 14 Feb 2015 at 6:58am

Thanks Southey for injecting some common sense into this debate.

People who keep saying "oh it's over-fishing, we're eating their food so they are eating us" have got no idea.

While it's true that world-wide over-fishing is a problem in Australia we have for the most part very well managed fisheries and lot of inshore demersal and pelagic fish species are at very healthy levels.
You mentioned the recovery of southern snapper stocks, as well as the big recovery in SBT.
On the east coast australian salmon (arripis trutta)--probably the favourite food for juvenile GWS are very, very abundant. Especially after commercial fishing for them was more or less ceased after the closure of the Eden cannery.
Tailor are also very abundant and population is growing with reductions in bag limits and spawning closures off Fraser Island. I've got four mouths to feed. I need four fillets, two fish. It normally takes me five minutes to get a feed of tailor off any of the local rock platforms. They are not scarce.

Theres' plenty of tucker for whites to feed on inshore. Which is why the things are here.

Now, they keep seeing a 4metre shark in aerial patrols off Ballina. No-one is surfing. There's a reasonable possibility it could be the same shark. It could even be the same rogue predator that took the poor pommy out in water just overhead in Byron last year.
Whats the point of spending thousands of dollars taxpayers money running choppers all day to find and identify a large shark hanging around, possibly and probably a man-eater without having any logical plan to do something about it?
That makes zero sense.

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seaman-staines Saturday, 14 Feb 2015 at 7:10am

...and if Mr Orca came and knocked Miss GWS off for a bit of fun then everyone can marvel at what a great spectacle it was because you know ummm that's nature man.

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simba Saturday, 14 Feb 2015 at 7:58am

Ive said this before and imo if there is a 4 meter white hanging around in the same area where an attack has just happened you dont have to be Albert to figure out that it was more than likely the culprit.A high powered rifle from a chopper is all you need,its not culling a million innocent sharks its called getting rid of the culprit,common sense.As in the byron attack a white was seen hanging in the same area for quite a while after wards.I dont believe in shark culls but when its obvious you do something about it straight away not talk about it.

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quokka Saturday, 14 Feb 2015 at 11:22am

I agree simba but even when it's almost blatantly obvious that the shark(s) hanging around are the culprit(s) and something is done about it the vocal minority pipe up and start whinging and bitching again. Case in point was Esperance, they drum lined straight after the attack and caught two GWS's...and fuck me did the shark lovers start howling about that...I can't comprehend these dickheads that put a fish before people.

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brutus Saturday, 14 Feb 2015 at 10:01am

FR76.....you seem to be just hell bent on proving that its not the changing eco system that is responsible for GWS's and other sharks increasing their attacks on surfers!

Based on your own personal fishing observations ....you have formulated a theory that its not a lack or change of food.......or as you mentioned a previous post has nothing to do with a changing ecosystem.

ah Climate change seems to be off the Australian/FR76 menu.....and then affects that come with it.......

50 years ago there were NO surfers in the water...Fast Forward to today sharks are evolving in testing these new bodies in the water......the might be a food source...look like seals......boogie boarders look like turtles.......hmmm.....

then advent of surfers , is change in an ecosystem......

coopershoot....I am guilty of not being flippant,but being a realist...really sad when someone dies......if I had a choice of being eaten by a shark while surfing or dying in Hospital of cancer, its an easy choice.........

I have a different reality to most in seeing kids who have never lived their lives yet.....bald headed and trying to survive another couple of mths....go and spend a couple of mths in a cancer center....

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Rabbits68 Saturday, 14 Feb 2015 at 11:11am

Your "reality" comment that GW are doing a great job of culling (in reference to humans) was unnecessary & in poor taste & you still stand by it!! What next, a "reality" comment in regards to the job cancer is doing on kids??!! Fuck me Brutus, I like a lot of what you have to offer but your last couple of efforts have been pretty ordinary...

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shaun Saturday, 14 Feb 2015 at 11:55am

Geez mate its a forum and its just a discussion, you guys get too sensitive, none of you new him, freeride goes to the service, he's never even met the guy, why would ya go, just to be seen to care? Get over it fellas guy gets chowed by a shark and a couple of babies are born with that minute, life goes on.

In the carpark down the surf someone mentions poor bloke gets chowed , someone else makes a very bad joke and the others laugh, that's reality, most of you guys I would say are reacting differently in real life than you are on the politically correct swellnuts , Least brutus doesn't change his persona for the net!

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Rabbits68 Saturday, 14 Feb 2015 at 12:51pm

Yeah nice try Shaun. Paint it however you want & however it makes you feel better. Must be nice for you knowing that you & Brutus are the only contributors to Swellnet forums that don't change there personas from real life carpark convos. Legends...

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southey Saturday, 14 Feb 2015 at 3:07pm

Well that sets that straight thanks Morris , oops I mean Shaun.

Brute , it sounds like seeing kids with cancer has taught you a valid
Lesson . Being that life is precious and we should make the most of it
and cherish every moment and everyone . One life , even an old Krusty
surfers is worthwhile fighting for .
Even extremely young kids , deserve a father or mother to provide ,
for them nurture them , and teach them the right ways of the world .
So I truely emplore you for finding this empathy within you .
Perhaps you could also spend time with the kids , siblings and families
of those that have already been taken in such a " noble way " .
Basically I couldn't give a fuck about myself , and the way I have lived
for the first 35 years of my life is a testament to this .
After becoming a father to two boys , I've since had a sobering reminder
that my life , success / longevity and health has much influence on close
family and friends . So not so selfish anymore , to " go early " leaves so many
scars behind .

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brutus Sunday, 15 Feb 2015 at 8:48am

Southey..I do have enormous amount of empathy for surfers who die in the surf ,whether is be drowning or shark attack.

I am not blinded though by emotion /anger and call for culling and any other knee jerk/emotional reactions as others have done here.

I t seems that a lot of people here are worried about my lack of empathy,by me not wanting to jump on the big bad shark culling movement.

I come up with the idea that sharks eco-systems have changed and maybe whats happening now is the new "norm,"........and get howled down by some very emotional postees.......

Instead of attacking me.....lets keep the stories and ideas coming about the current state of play in our backyards and the increase in sharks everywhere!

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Rabbits68 Sunday, 15 Feb 2015 at 10:45am

Brutus, I also agree that the ocean ecosystem has changed etc (as I stated previously), but let's be clear, your not getting howled down for that opinion, it was your casual human culling comment that upset a few posters. You've made your feelings clear as have the rest of us. We move forward....

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brutus Sunday, 15 Feb 2015 at 12:10pm

the human culling comment was a bit insensitive....and was not meant offend......and for someone who believes that human culling happens everyday called abortion.....is an abomination ...........I possibly value life more than most!

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quokka Saturday, 14 Feb 2015 at 9:02pm

Are you pumping Brutus Shaun?

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brutus Saturday, 14 Feb 2015 at 12:27pm

Rabbits..the whole culling debate is an emotional knee jerk reaction...that's my opinion based a lot on whats been said here by the Culling mob!

as far as my insensitive comments about culling humans by GWS ...well it might be happening.....and someone dying from a shark attack is unlucky ,but compare that to kids fighting and dying from cancer is a big leap........I feel empathy for a surfer dying in the surf......but what a way to go.....

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Blowin Saturday, 14 Feb 2015 at 12:35pm

You're right Brutus. What a lucky guy. Dying traumatically through extreme violence. Bleeding out on a beach 3000 kms from his birthplace without time or opportunity to see his loved ones once more and tell them he loves them .

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brutus Saturday, 14 Feb 2015 at 12:41pm

I didn't say Lucky Blowinit upya A............I just don't get caught up in all the emotional crap you do......

he died surfing.....when a shark hits you there is just a thud...body goes into shock ,no pain......a real bummer.......what a way to go....or crushed in a car accident .....??

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Blowin Saturday, 14 Feb 2015 at 12:58pm

You're actually on the money in some regards Brutus, regarding the lack of pain...or so we imagine.
But I just keep visualising dying a lonely death on the sand or worse, in front of loved ones that don't have the capacity to just slip away to the next world.
To be honest, I've always thought it preferable to die from shark attack than heart attack - here lies Blowin, died from too many schooners and bags of chips ie from being a fat cunt.
But then I thought about the unimaginable horror that some one such as Ben Linden endured. Watching a massive shark approach and decide upon the most effective way of killing you, of which you are utterly helpless to prevent. And it freaks me the fuck out.
Each to their own I guess.

PS - The whole name calling thing ? Like Shaun says, at least try and be funny. Otherwise we both look like knobs.

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brutus Saturday, 14 Feb 2015 at 1:32pm

hey blown...not so sure you get to see the shark when it hits you....I watch every program I can on sharks....just watched one which was about shark attack survivors....and none of them saw the shark coming...just a huge bump/thump .......

I actually relax in the water knowing if its my time...I can't do anything about it.....same as a heavy wipeout.......

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Sheepdog Saturday, 14 Feb 2015 at 4:09pm

I reckon the sound of screeching tyres, crunching metal, an engine being pushed onto you chest and your legs turned to mince, a car horn, people screaming, and the distant sound of a siren would be pretty bad, blowin..... Happens every day... And to think last year was the lowest death count in ages - only 1155 killed..... Only 3 killed per day...
I wonder how many were maimed for life?

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Blowin Saturday, 14 Feb 2015 at 4:21pm

Terrible stuff Sheepy. If I have to die it'll be sitting comfortably in a beanbag wearing track suit pants whilst all my friends and loved ones wish me well .

I used to imagine that I'd like to die like a Viking , but seeing as how I don't live like one I think I'll be happy with comfort , love and a lack of pain if that's possible.

You listening to this Huey ?

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Rabbits68 Saturday, 14 Feb 2015 at 12:42pm

Your words not mine. Glad you feel empathy for people dying in the surf, clearly I midunderstood your "GW are doing a great job of culling" comment....

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freeride76 Saturday, 14 Feb 2015 at 10:29am

Just paid respects to Tadeshi at ceremony. Very moving. Lot of people there. RIP Tadeshi

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blindboy Saturday, 14 Feb 2015 at 10:54am

One of the links back there was some research which found that the smallest floating object in a group was the most likely to be attacked. Not sure how valid it might be but if you think there are sharks around it might be worth waiting for a bodyboarder to go out! No offence intended.

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Rabbits68 Saturday, 14 Feb 2015 at 11:04am

The stats don't back that up BB. Out of all the attacks (without having them on hand) the number of body boarders is less that stand up surfers as I recall.....

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blindboy Saturday, 14 Feb 2015 at 11:13am

Page 489 first paragraph. Not gospel just the results of one experiment.

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/content_link/qMaXLafM3oUlbD98bPogAgEJy...

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simba Sunday, 15 Feb 2015 at 4:59pm

Apparently it swam under a booger to get him,so there goes that theory about the smallest object.

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Rabbits68 Saturday, 14 Feb 2015 at 11:02am

Fatal GW attacks aside. I don't know the factual history but I inderstand that several decades ago it was thought/proven that GW numbers had dramatically reduced to the point where it was considered detrimental for the ocean ecology & a ban was placed on catching them. Fast forward to now, given we now have greater technology to measure & understand the issue (or do we?), has there ever been a recent "call" made that suggests that too many GW is as detrimental to the ocean ecology? Or as BB suggested, this out of proportion number (if it is) will just sort it self out over time. My point being can humans assist the GW population in a way that will also potentially reduce GW shark attacks on humans. A win/win so to speak. Lots of "ifs" I know......

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blindboy Saturday, 14 Feb 2015 at 11:39am

The available evidence is insufficient to support any policy Rabbits. As I think I said somewhere back there, you have about a ten times greater chance of drowning. Rationally any effort to make surfing safer should focus on that. Shark attacks are so rare and our knowledge of shark behaviour so poor it is hard to know where to start in terms of further research, let alone policy.

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blindboy Saturday, 14 Feb 2015 at 12:38pm

I wouldn't trust the technology yet but it is a reasonable line of research.
http://www.sharkmitigation.com/clever-buoy-new.html

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chin Saturday, 14 Feb 2015 at 1:08pm

I can see that system being pretty good BB, once they refine it.
Looks like It will always be limited to patrolled beaches though.
It would never be deployed in more remote places, and nobody to send the text message to anyway.

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brutus Saturday, 14 Feb 2015 at 1:58pm

they have this up at Santa barbera....when I go to the ranch...there is an app which tells you where the tagged big whites are......and as the Ranch has the Channel Islands outside of it...lotsa big GWS.....everytime we go up ...always a couple within a miles or so........but ya gotta tag em......

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blindboy Saturday, 14 Feb 2015 at 2:22pm

brutus this system is for picking up any shark from its sonar signal rather than just the ones that have been tagged. If it can be made to work reliably it could significantly reduce the risks wherever it was installed.

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coopersshoot Saturday, 14 Feb 2015 at 3:02pm

Brutus ,i am also a realist and i don't need to go to a cancer ward to find empathy , don't see the correlation between a shark attack and people with cancer,apart from the fact that we all die .Life cut short is sad and even more so when kids are involved,i have grandkids. I believe in destiny. Plenty of people in the ocean 50 years ago ,just not on craft ,i agree that we possibly look like a food source, black wetties ,boogers ,mat riders ,and i don't agree with culling,that was an absolute disgrace in WA ,achieved nothing apart from the fact there was quite a few a different species of sharks happily coexisting with everything else in the ocean until they became the losers in land based politics.

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Dreamer Saturday, 14 Feb 2015 at 5:23pm

Just don't understand why eastern states is allowed shark nets and hooks , while we in WA can't have either and get ridiculed for trying.

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brutus Sunday, 15 Feb 2015 at 8:56am

coopershot.....I did not find empathy in a cancer center......what it did was make me realize was how brave these kids are and to see smiles on kids faces because they just found out they have a couple of mths extra....puts life in perspective...

we surf we know the risks....hit by your bd,knocked unconscious....box jelly fish,sharks etc...we all know the risks , but get down right emotional and angry because "our" environment that we play in bites us , (pardon the pun) then we want to change our environment ..........I just don't buy into the emotional culling debate....

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seal Saturday, 14 Feb 2015 at 4:27pm

Some observations that I have seen over my past 50years of living and surfing on the NSW Nth Coast & SE Queensland that may or may not be of any value to the conversation.
Sharks used to be killed regardless of type , size or number by whoever caught them until they became protected. The tailor runs during the season were amazing to see and in fact it was easy to catch a feed of fish (bream,tailor,whiting etc) off the headlands and beaches most days of the year up until about 20yrs ago but now not so easy and we hardly see the schools of tailor in the numbers we once had. There is a fairly large increase in migrating whales close to the coast in the nth coast area.
The bait schools aren't near as plentiful either so maybe with these things happening and the shark population recovering it is making them come in closer more often looking for a feed.
When I was a kid I used to dive around Byron and Lennox during the mackerel season and we'd see the odd shark, mostly whalers and tigers but occasionally a white. Now days though, a mate I used to dive with who still gets in at times down that way, reckons there is a lot more sharks and quite a few days he won't get in the water or get a fish in the boat because of the shark action and more whites amongst them.
Weather that's an indication of more sharks, less food for them, so chasing what there is harder or what I don't know but if more people get taken while surfing in the area then maybe knocking a few of the buggers on the head might be in order.
I don't mean wholesale slaughter but chase down the culprit if at all possible as I hear there's a 4m shark been seen quite a few times in the Ballina , Lennox area that's in all probability the one that killed the surfer at speeds. Sure you won't stop the possibility of an attack but you may cut it down and give people a little piece of mind that something has been done to try and make things safer.
Do we let a dog who's mauled someone continue on its merry way?
Maybe we have to treat a shark who's mauled someone the same way if we are pretty certain it's the culprit.

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mick-free Saturday, 14 Feb 2015 at 7:16pm

Seal I have no evidence that I can produce but you will find thats exactly whats been happening in SA on the quiet.

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Sheepdog Saturday, 14 Feb 2015 at 5:59pm

Blowin wrote - "Terrible stuff Sheepy. If I have to die it'll be sitting comfortably in a beanbag wearing track suit pants whilst all my friends and loved ones wish me well .

I used to imagine that I'd like to die like a Viking , but seeing as how I don't live like one I think I'll be happy with comfort , love and a lack of pain if that's possible."

Mate.... There's a great old lyric to a great old song....

"And the best that you can hope for is to die
in your sleep"........ ;)

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mick-free Saturday, 14 Feb 2015 at 7:18pm

Hows the velvet voice of Kenny Rodgers.

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coopersshoot Saturday, 14 Feb 2015 at 6:05pm

Dreamer ,i wasn't ridiculing the wesr for what they did ,just what a pointless exercise it was.Ive always said i would be quite happy to have the nets and drumlines on the east coast removed .Who knows if they have prevented any attacks,I'm guessing bugger all. After the swimmer getting done at byron and the big noah still hanging around ,i wouldn't have a problem if it had been taken out if it was possible Seal.

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coopersshoot Saturday, 14 Feb 2015 at 6:05pm

Dreamer ,i wasn't ridiculing the wesr for what they did ,just what a pointless exercise it was.Ive always said i would be quite happy to have the nets and drumlines on the east coast removed .Who knows if they have prevented any attacks,I'm guessing bugger all. After the swimmer getting done at byron and the big noah still hanging around ,i wouldn't have a problem if it had been taken out if it was possible Seal.

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Dreamer Saturday, 14 Feb 2015 at 6:40pm

cheers coops, no offence taken more dumbfounded why we are different. Ok they didn't catch any gws but heard they did get a few straightened hooks up ocean reef way.

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quokka Saturday, 14 Feb 2015 at 9:12pm

The Govt fucked up because the lines were in at the wrong time of year. Would have been interesting to see the reaction if a GWS had been caught...there would have have been some serious moaning from the huggers I bet.

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freeride76 Saturday, 14 Feb 2015 at 9:02pm

There's nothing irrational or emotionally knee jerk in reaction to selective culling if a large shark has taken up residence or semi-residence and on balance of probabilities poses a clear and present danger to human activity or has already caused harm or a fatality.

Thats a sane response to a clear threat.

Unfortunately, when it comes to shark mitigation the only method with a proven track record is a combination of netting and baited drumlines.
That's a matter now of well documented fact in NSW, QLD and South Africa.

Sonar could be something for the future. Capetown has a shark spotters program which employs people to station on high vantage points and spot for sharks. That would be expensive but could work.
http://sharkspotters.org.za/

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brutus Sunday, 15 Feb 2015 at 9:12am

FR76..now that's an interesting thought....a large shark taking up residence,or semi-residence and pose a threat...........who actually judges the shark to be guilty?

I watched a program on 15' GWS that had been tagged in South Africa.........then the GWS went for a cruise....from SA ,up past the Maldives,then swam parallel about 500K's off the Indo coast....came into the coast at Xmouth,swam down the coast to Cape Lewin,thurned left and swam all the way through the Bight.....thru Bass straight up the East Coast to the tip of the Great Barrier reef...turned around and retraced it Fin Steps.......all the back thru Bass straight and that's where they lost the tracking device.

Until I saw this show....I always thought GWS's were territorial....as we grew up with sightings/attacks and the shark legends from the fishermen.....

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barley Saturday, 14 Feb 2015 at 9:30pm

Surprised no company has come up with a rambo knife style combo for ya surfboard..if a shark ever goes ya you pull the thing out and stab the fucker..make a million bucks i reckon!!

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Blowin Saturday, 14 Feb 2015 at 10:03pm

Personally, I'm going to start surfing with a power head tipped trident like King Neptune employs .

Let's face it, even burdened with that thing, my style couldn't get any worse.

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barley Saturday, 14 Feb 2015 at 10:40pm

I have a friend that just went out shooting and he shot the gun and the scope kicked back and cut his eye. How funny is that!! We told him we wear pants out in the country not skirts!!

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Rabbits68 Sunday, 15 Feb 2015 at 11:55am

What a survivor!! Unbelievable will to live.

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Blowin Sunday, 15 Feb 2015 at 12:57pm

That was fucked. Mr Pollard, best wishes to you mate.

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brutus Sunday, 15 Feb 2015 at 1:05pm

Amazing tale of survival...and yeah he really fought to get to the beach...

it does raise an interesting point though...if you are surfing by yourself in area renowned for GWS ......is that a bit irresponsible ...??

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mtown Sunday, 15 Feb 2015 at 2:27pm

I surf in that area out to the bight and back to Albany.
Most surfs are by myself and some are a fair way out.theres a wave in this area a lot further out.it might be irresponsible but it is one of the greatest experiences you can have. I accept that I may have this sort of run in.i don't understand all of these people who think they have a right to be safe from everything.its life shit happens ,unfortunately it some times dose happen to you.
Sounds like a lot of people on here would be best taking up a new past time.ive said it before if you are scared don't go out,some times i don't even when it's pumping.because it is the ocean and sometimes animals in it want to eat you.its not that hard to understand.sad that this man has died.
The fear on this forum thread is out of control you all just "feed "of each other's fear working yourselfs up like a pack mentality.im glad a don't meet any of yous where I surf as I am shore yous would ruin the experience.

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bum_acid Sunday, 15 Feb 2015 at 3:16pm
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yorkessurfer Sunday, 15 Feb 2015 at 3:29pm

Just yesterday the beaches were closed at Surfers Paradise and Kurrawa on the Goldy after a 4 metre shark spooked one of the local clubbies paddling on his ski. And that stretch is protected with nets and drumlines!
http://www.mygc.com.au/news/shark-sighting-closes-surfers-paradise-beach/

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udo Sunday, 15 Feb 2015 at 8:06pm

60 minutes now fellas interview with Sean Pollard -attacked by 2 GWS.

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Rabbits68 Sunday, 15 Feb 2015 at 11:37pm

One of the most powerful survival stories your likely ever to see. Amazing people (attack victim & rescuers) on many levels. Good luck to all of them...

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theween Monday, 16 Feb 2015 at 8:09am

Endangered species my arse!

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udo Monday, 16 Feb 2015 at 11:56am

bren , you watch 60mins last night ..?

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Craig Monday, 16 Feb 2015 at 1:07pm

60 minutes special, absolutely horrific. What a recovery and great work by his rescuers.

http://www.9jumpin.com.au/show/60minutes/stories/2015/february/great-whi...

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freeride76 Monday, 16 Feb 2015 at 1:11pm

That was heavy.
Two sharks?

That's been a documented pattern in one other WA attack (the one at Lefties) and in South Africa.

Heavy courage under pressure.
Thank the good lord those people on the beach knew what to do to stop the bleed-out.
I think that other bloke who was stalked at Esperance was just lucky that GWS didn't go him.

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udo Monday, 16 Feb 2015 at 2:02pm

Peter Clarkson ab diver was also taken by 2 GWS at Coffin Bay and a few others in the Adelaide gulf waters 2 sharks were involved.

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Craig Monday, 16 Feb 2015 at 2:26pm

Well the Peter Clarkson death seems suss as regarding shark attack, but yes Nick Peterson was done by two.

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udo Monday, 16 Feb 2015 at 3:05pm

Very suss, just re read the coroners report !

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Craig Monday, 16 Feb 2015 at 3:11pm

Yeah, remember all the convo here.. abalone diver death 2 sharks mystery

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yorkessurfer Monday, 16 Feb 2015 at 2:36pm

That's right Craig. Nick Peterson was taken by two Whites at West Beach in Adelaide in 2004.
But shark experts claimed that the witnesses were confused as White Pointer Sharks are solitary hunters. However those who saw the attack were certain there was two.
http://www.smh.com.au/news/National/Sharks-kill-teen-as-friends-watch/20...

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brutus Monday, 16 Feb 2015 at 3:00pm

looks to me ,another myth that GWS are solitary hunters has been exposed on these bds.......

I think one of the surfers killed at Lefties was also 2 x GWS.....?

proof what do we really know about the GWS's.....??

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caml Monday, 16 Feb 2015 at 3:20pm

Maybe the orcas scared the 12ft pointer that just swum past blacks an hr ago. Bolted from neptunes and swum north . Probably wrong but just a random guess

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goofyfoot Monday, 16 Feb 2015 at 7:48pm

Were you in the water when you saw it Caml? You still see many around that area?

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southey Monday, 16 Feb 2015 at 8:56pm

Brad Smith who was taken at Noisies . Was two sharks . One adult GWS the second was not official but was believed to be a juvenile white by some witnesses . When I say that , apparently Brad put up a fair fight before he lost . R.I.P.
Whether or not the Sharks worked in unison or perhaps the juvenile has ago and the adult decided to take over ?!?
As for everyone's favourite Orcas ....
I wonder what sort of carnage a pod would cause if they happened to jump into a Tuna pen , or even get caught up trying to have a go at the " dead wood " in the predator net , whilst on tow .
You would think they would be too smart to get stuck in the predator net , but perhaps smart enough to " rob " from the main nets themselves !!!?

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caml Monday, 16 Feb 2015 at 9:32pm

Gfoot no i didnt see it .it swum under one of the locals .southey i can remember the stories of 2 sharks being one was a bronzie but i never believed it and still dont know details .

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mothart Monday, 16 Feb 2015 at 10:08pm

Two of the guys in the water today at blacks where also involve in the last big 'visit' in the area.

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madwax Tuesday, 17 Feb 2015 at 11:36am

Just to put this thread into perspective a swimmer drowned at Avoca beach yesterday but hardly received a mention. There is footage of two whites taking a surfer of his board whilst riding a wave on you tube. They definitely do it from time to time.

RIP Tadashi - I hope your last wave was a good one. Much respect and thanks to the surfers and others who were on the scene to assist.

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Shatner'sBassoon Tuesday, 17 Feb 2015 at 7:31pm

I think Werner Herzog offers some sensible perspective:

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Shatner'sBassoon Wednesday, 18 Feb 2015 at 7:12pm
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Blowin Wednesday, 18 Feb 2015 at 7:59pm

Sorry Brinkley, as much as I'd like to agree with someone as pretty and earnest as yourself, I don't believe there is such a thing as balance in nature. It's a human construct. Nature is what nature is.

Apart from that she's got some cool stories. Hands up who doesn't want to see an Orca smash a pointer ?

Great life ahead of her...

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mundies Wednesday, 18 Feb 2015 at 7:23pm