Legropes and the law

Stu Nettle
Surfpolitik

In a recent issue of the Byron Bay Echo, a local legal firm, Somersby Laundry Lomax, took out a full page ad targeting surfers. It asked the question: “Have you been injured by a surfer whose board was not restrained by a legrope?”

Then it answered the question in kind: “If so, and you know the details of the surfer at fault, call Somerville Laundry Lomax.”

At first glance, the ad appears quite straightforward: a local business promoting its services to the public. Though considering it’s the legal profession the online response to the ad has included the usual lawyerly slurs about ambulance chasing etc.

There is, however, an ulterior motive to the advertisement; a covert purpose to its appearance. If you read between the lines you may suspect what that is, but if you want to end the guessing game then you can dial the number in the advertisement and go straight through to the switchboard. Which is what I did.

Ben Crawford is a solicitor at Somerville Laundry Lomax, he’s a long time surfer on the northern NSW coast, and he helped devise the strategy of compensating surf accident victims. It was also his idea to run that ad in the Echo.

“You’ll notice, “ says Ben, “that the ad specifies surfers not wearing legropes.” Which it does. It’s not addressing all surf accidents but only those of a particular nature: the surfer hit by a board ridden without a legrope.

I mention to Ben that in 2013 I wrote an article about legropes and the law, and in the process I interviewed a solicitor who told me the NSW Civil Liability Act created “significant hurdles” for injured surfers to recover damages.

"In my view," said the solicitor, "the courts would likely find that surfing is a dangerous recreational activity within the meaning of the Civil Liability Act. That would apply regardless of whether the board rider was wearing a legrope or not."

When I put that to Ben, he agrees that most surfers believe nothing can be done. That the law stops at the tide line. “We believe it doesn’t,” says Ben.

Their confidence rests on the fact that the widely published ‘Surfer’s Code’, turned into a plaque and mounted at most city beaches around Australia, includes the line ‘Don’t let go of your board’.

The Surfer's Code

“That’s an accepted norm in the surf,” says Ben. “It’s the same as don’t drop in.” When the Code was drafted in 2000 by Neil Lazarow the hipster-led fashion of surfing without a legrope wasn’t yet a trend. At the turn of the century almost everyone surfed with legropes, hence no direct mention of it in the Code, yet Ben and his SLL colleagues believe that losing your board because you don’t have a legrope simply falls under the point about not letting go of your board.

Point being, not wearing a legrope is a breach of the Surfers Code of Conduct. But that’s just one matter...

Ben then puts his legal training to work, building the argument, one point after the other, sometimes moving laterally to reinforce the base.

“The Civil Liability Act assumes that surfing has certain risks, such as wipeouts and the danger of rocks, however is it fair to assume that a loose board, one that could easily have been secured by legrope, is an inherent risk?” Obviously Ben and his partners think it isn’t.

“Every surfer has a duty of care to others. What would stop a person wearing a legrope and relieving themself of that duty?” Ben’s not asking me directly but building his case, so I stay silent.

“A legrope costs $30, so cost isn’t prohibitive,” answers Ben. “Plus, I understand the argument about performance, yet you can switch on the WSL and the top longboard competitors are wearing legropes, so it’s not about performance either.”

Clearly Ben and his colleagues believe there’s no adequate reason to not wear a legrope in crowded conditions.

Also, while researching the legalities, the SLL team was made aware of a case heard in Byron Bay District Court in 2014 that bolstered their position. The potted version is that a SUP was rented to a complete novice who took it to The Pass, dropped in on a surfer who subsequently hit rocks while taking evasive action. The victim broke their leg and sought $200,000 damages, and they won. The case successfully challenged the notion that surfing is an inherently dangerous activity.

All of what you’ve heard so far is just one part of a two-fold approach. The crew at SLL are confident enough to make a no win/no pay claim, however, according to Ben, they’re really not in it for the money. A number of staff at SLL surf, including Ben, and they’ve seen what happens at The Pass when people absolve themselves of their duty of care and shun legropes. Thus the ad, which they consider more along the lines of community service.

“We’ll defend victims, if it comes to that,” admits Ben, “however we also thought that legal education was warranted in this case.” And that’s what the ad in the Echo was: public messaging about your duty of care in the surf. Consider it a shot across the bows of anyone who paddles out in crowded surf without a legrope. “There’s no vacuum in the law,” says Ben. “Surfers should know that.”

Ben Crawford and his surfing mates at Somersby Laundry Lomax are hoping their message can alter behaviour. After all, going legrope-free is a recent fashion, it's not entrenched in our culture and can easily be shifted. But for those who won't budge the message is clear: If you surf without a legrope and hurt someone, they can come after you legally.

Comments

D taylor's picture
D taylor's picture
D taylor commented Monday, 25 Feb 2019 at 4:53pm

Hmmm
For context- I wear a leggie and have doe for 35 years
Next you may need to ensure your leggie is in fit order and not out of warranty and / or has no nicks and cuts
Not sure about all of this- however I do get the boardrider not happy with the SUP rider
Wonder if their will be disclaimers in new wave pools ( aka Tullamarine Vicco) ?

Dave taylor

lost's picture
lost's picture
lost commented Monday, 25 Feb 2019 at 5:02pm

I was reminded on the weekend how bloody dangerous a stray board can be. Solid but mellow northern beaches spot where a clubbie board was being washed in sideways towards me and a bunch paddling out. Long live the short board....I was able to duck dive but the mals to my left and right had no where to go. What the hell the fluro singlet clubbies thougjt they were doing I don’t know but certainly not saving any lives and mostly dropping in from the shoulder. At least the sups and mals has legropes on.

knB

isaacday's picture
isaacday's picture
isaacday commented Tuesday, 26 Feb 2019 at 6:12am

Not to mention an out-of-control surf boat originally designed to rescue people but now a water-borne steamroller.

channel-bottom's picture
channel-bottom's picture
channel-bottom commented Monday, 25 Feb 2019 at 5:12pm

But how will the hipsters at Queenscliff cope if they have to be worried about other surfers by wearing a leggie?

"But I never fall off, and I'm never caught inside, and I never let go of my board". But the number of boards speeding to shore with no rider in site causing anyone paddling out to dodge never ceases to amaze me.

I hate the litigious nature of where this is going but if surfers (longboarders particularly at crowded spots like Queenscliff, The Pass etc) continue to put safety of other surfers at risk by not wearing a leggie, they deserve what they get.

JackStance's picture
JackStance's picture
JackStance commented Tuesday, 26 Feb 2019 at 9:54am

Ice + sledge-hammer + legrope-less board makes it to shore = Happy Hippo circa 2019

Breath. Murdoch's empire will one day fail to control our minds.

redmondo's picture
redmondo's picture
redmondo commented Monday, 25 Feb 2019 at 5:21pm

Kooks with no awareness who try to surf beyond their ability are the dangerous ones.

dastasha's picture
dastasha's picture
dastasha commented Monday, 25 Feb 2019 at 5:28pm

OMG
Cue the anti jet ski brigade 3,2,1...
Where does the law stand on the councils responsibility to protect us from sharks
FFS

indo-dreaming's picture
indo-dreaming's picture
indo-dreaming commented Monday, 25 Feb 2019 at 7:08pm

And so they should be posting here, all surfers should be anti Jet ski only place jet skis have in the surf are in waves guys cant paddle or a WSL comp.

dastasha's picture
dastasha's picture
dastasha commented Monday, 25 Feb 2019 at 7:39pm

No place for them in an average public lineup. Sorry but the WSL guys should use their arms. Run back up the beach and paddle out like the rest of us. Jumping off and calling for the ski is a sad way to complete a wave.
But rules, hey?

dangerouskook2000's picture
dangerouskook2000's picture
dangerouskook2000 commented Sunday, 3 Mar 2019 at 7:40pm

I don't blame ya. Debra Soh is hot

dastasha's picture
dastasha's picture
dastasha commented Monday, 25 Feb 2019 at 5:33pm

Ya see a kook coming ya get out of the way. Paddle in to the bowl where they cant get ya!
[email protected] Byron

Vic Local's picture
Vic Local's picture
Vic Local commented Monday, 25 Feb 2019 at 5:33pm

It would be interesting to hear a legal opinion about clubbie row boats in the line up. Those things are staggeringly dangerous and plenty of people have been cleaned up by heavy hard boats with five bodies attached.
Do clubbie wankers have a duty of care too when they take out stupidly unstable crafts?

"angry online, smiley in the brine"

Lanky Dean's picture
Lanky Dean's picture
Lanky Dean commented Monday, 25 Feb 2019 at 5:40pm

Clubbies are dangerous period. In and out of the water!

savanova's picture
savanova's picture
savanova commented Monday, 25 Feb 2019 at 6:04pm

There are clubbies and there are life guards, the life guards are the ones without the beer gut

velocityjohnno's picture
velocityjohnno's picture
velocityjohnno commented Monday, 25 Feb 2019 at 6:25pm

That crapping-in-a-hat story was chilling.

Flashinthepan's picture
Flashinthepan's picture
Flashinthepan commented Monday, 25 Feb 2019 at 6:15pm

Not a legal opinion, but I am not aware of criminal cases. The clubbies you despise are somewhat covered by Good Samaritan legislation. Pro lifeguards, by virtue of their Council employers are an easier target for lawyers, but they usually have higher water competence and more benign rescue craft .

The top end of the clubbie pyramid operates at the interstate equivalent of the Melbourne Club, so is very well connected politically.
There have been civil cases involving row boats and rubber duckies which have been settled quietly and confidentially.

Vic Local's picture
Vic Local's picture
Vic Local commented Monday, 25 Feb 2019 at 6:24pm

The Good Samaritan principle only applies to first aid / rescue situations. Clubbie boats aren't rescue equipment, and paddling them is a sport not some altruistic pursuit to save lives.
And yes, the cubbies are very well connected politically. I'd say 5% of club resources go to surf life saving and 95% goes to beach sport equipment and travel to carnivals. Clubs get a staggering amount of tax payer's cash for what they actually do.
A mate of mine had his arm broken when he was run over by an out-of-control row boat. If that happened to me, I'd definitely be calling a lawyer.

"angry online, smiley in the brine"

JackStance's picture
JackStance's picture
JackStance commented Tuesday, 26 Feb 2019 at 10:14am

True, but whilst we have a youth-obsessed mainstream culture, on the aggregate, in my opinion, the more options for our young ones to engage in physical activity outside (especially in nature/the ocean) the better. They need, we need, society needs, more of these types of activities for young ones, because the corporate psychic invasion and colonisation of the minds and cultures of young (and all) people is relentlessly driving us to extremes: empathy scores in young people at all time lows; self-harm up; drug use at younger ages up; bullying up; objectification of young women up; lateral violence up; and the normalisation of it all.... I think I need some retail therapy to plug the hole.
I'd rather see them kooking out (on tax-payer resources) in natures' clasp, than in malls: unless they're k-grinding corporate assets.
Not saying your mates broken arm, or anyone injured by negligence, is ok by any means, but I am saying that this kind of human interaction, and its resultant all round learning from experience is, in my opinion, healthier than a lot of other contexts available for experience.
Kind regards.

Breath. Murdoch's empire will one day fail to control our minds.

velocityjohnno's picture
velocityjohnno's picture
velocityjohnno commented Tuesday, 26 Feb 2019 at 5:44pm

Great post.

WarriSymbol's picture
WarriSymbol's picture
WarriSymbol commented Thursday, 28 Feb 2019 at 11:35am

Only place clubbie row boats belong is a clubbie museum.

dandandan's picture
dandandan's picture
dandandan commented Monday, 25 Feb 2019 at 5:36pm

Honestly I'll never understand people who make the conscious decision to not use a legrope for performance reasons. I've only ever spoken to 2 or 3 people who insist on it, and they had much bigger obstacles to performance than a leggie.

LeBarry's picture
LeBarry's picture
LeBarry commented Monday, 25 Feb 2019 at 5:43pm

wear a leg rope and be responsible to the other people in the surf, we all see boards lost and its a hazard that we shouldn't put up with, culture needs to change.

Leg ropes don't hinder performance on a mal or any other board (including softies).

old-dog's picture
old-dog's picture
old-dog commented Monday, 25 Feb 2019 at 5:44pm

If it's not on it's not on.

zoddle's picture
zoddle's picture
zoddle commented Tuesday, 26 Feb 2019 at 9:24am

word

freeride76's picture
freeride76's picture
freeride76 commented Monday, 25 Feb 2019 at 5:48pm

I surfed the Pass all summer and it looked to my eye like more hipsters on logs were leggy-ing up.

so maybe the tide has already turned.

Flashinthepan's picture
Flashinthepan's picture
Flashinthepan commented Monday, 25 Feb 2019 at 5:54pm

While I have the ear of real and imagined lawyers…

Does anyone have any thoughts on the law of salvage, next time a valuable hipster mal or clubbie death sled washes ashore near you.

The smart arse in me has contemplated invoking salvage rights, but so far it has just been keyboard warrior bluster. I do ALWAYS feign sincerity and say “did your legrope break?”, and raise the incredulity and aggro somewhat if children are in the firing line.

Interestingly, the construction of the early lighthouses in Olde England was resisted by coastal communities, because salvage rights from shipwrecks was a major source of income.

Salvage law is a potential business opportunity for Byron’s homeless and some Noosa 457s, which could outbid container deposit refunds, but leave no ambulances left to chase.

velocityjohnno's picture
velocityjohnno's picture
velocityjohnno commented Monday, 25 Feb 2019 at 6:29pm

No legal expertise, but one would think if the potential owner is in line of sight of lost board there would be no salvage. Precedent being if you can see the water they are bathers, if out of eyesight they are undies.

JM's picture
JM's picture
JM commented Monday, 25 Feb 2019 at 6:05pm

Good on you Ben. You do what needs to be done.

blindboy's picture
blindboy's picture
blindboy commented Monday, 25 Feb 2019 at 6:25pm

Ha ha flash my line was "Hey mate I've got a spare one in the car if you forgo yours!"

Laurie McGinness

Vic Local's picture
Vic Local's picture
Vic Local commented Monday, 25 Feb 2019 at 6:30pm

Classic blind boy. And if they knock back your leg rope offer, finish with "but you'll look like a dickhead if you paddle out without one".

"angry online, smiley in the brine"

velocityjohnno's picture
velocityjohnno's picture
velocityjohnno commented Monday, 25 Feb 2019 at 6:31pm

This is an important development, here's a link to the surfers' code if anyone wants to share with those learning or unfamiliar:

https://www.randwick.nsw.gov.au/facilities-and-recreation/beaches-and-co...

Walk around G's picture
Walk around G's picture
Walk around G commented Monday, 25 Feb 2019 at 7:06pm

Thanks vj, very clear, consise and easy to understand, in anyone's language. I do however think that we may need to also start sharing it with the over frother's that read a websites forecast, follow it to the letter, then invade and disregard all of the 'surfers code'.

Salty Andy's picture
Salty Andy's picture
Salty Andy commented Monday, 25 Feb 2019 at 6:39pm

Surfing is dangerous as crowds increase some smart surfers are wearing custom molded AndyCaps made with Kevlar and epoxy you can see them at Margaret River. Andy Caps FB You can’t winge to a lawyer if your unconscious in the water.

thebeard's picture
thebeard's picture
thebeard commented Monday, 25 Feb 2019 at 10:59pm

I see your contribution is not at all biased by the fact you sell sinking caps (see what I did there) that probably do f all once a 9.2 double glazed single fin rubs the skull.

Schreinermeister's picture
Schreinermeister's picture
Schreinermeister commented Monday, 25 Feb 2019 at 6:57pm

I look forward to suing the next person who drops in on me, snakes me, asks me if I’m getting any good ones, mentions the tide and it’s affect on our current session, mentions there’s too many kooks out, and says anything relating to Huey, as detailed in the “surfer’s code”.
Get real you bunch of depressed parasites, back to the footy field if you like Saturday sport.
This is embarrassing.

Blowin's picture
Blowin's picture
Blowin commented Monday, 25 Feb 2019 at 7:01pm

Do you ride a log without a leggie in crowds , Schreinermeister ?

Schreinermeister's picture
Schreinermeister's picture
Schreinermeister commented Monday, 25 Feb 2019 at 7:25pm

Sometimes Blowin, when conditions, and my inner monologue, calls me to it.
I also enjoy felafels, steak, beer, incense, female company, prog rock, power tools, 4wd’s, short hair cuts, long hair, shortboards, crowds, and a little alone time now and then. I’m a contradiction, I’m a free spirit.

Do you enjoy the company of lawyers Blowin?

Blowin's picture
Blowin's picture
Blowin commented Monday, 25 Feb 2019 at 7:48pm

Do you know how to throw a punch ?

That dislike of lawyers could benefit all parties if you knock someone’s kid over with an errant 10 foot board.

I’m very far from the type of person who wants to involve the law or legality, but I’m just as opposed to some whitewash cowboy thinking their desire for a hassle free cross step is just as legitimate as someone’s desire that the people around them are respectful of their safety in a crowded environment.

Schreinermeister's picture
Schreinermeister's picture
Schreinermeister commented Monday, 25 Feb 2019 at 8:13pm

Nice work Blowin, I like it when conversations start talking about punching. It’s when we know we’re getting somewhere.

Here are some “Laws” for everyone to digest, and fester on:
- the Pass is a 2 ft log wave, one of the best in the world, that occasionally endulges one’s desire to ride a twin, short fat JS, soft top, plank of wood or someone else’s girlfriend, when conditions allow.
- it’s not a day care center, surf school (except when Rusty does it), wave machine, back packer happy hour bar, wsl 2 +1 cutback surf comp or sup training ground. Except it is all of those.
- this conversation is the surfing equivilant of a disgruntled father playing scooters with his kids in the bottom of a skate park pool when someone’s trying to have a good ol’ session.
- The pass, after the rocks, is a wave for logging. That’s what happens there. That’s what has always happened there, before Internet forums and lawyers seeing surfing as a ‘new market’, and hopefully it will continue that way.

This is embarrassing.

velocityjohnno's picture
velocityjohnno's picture
velocityjohnno commented Monday, 25 Feb 2019 at 9:53pm

All of your laws could be done with a legrope on, except for the skatepark bit.

Schreinermeister's picture
Schreinermeister's picture
Schreinermeister commented Monday, 25 Feb 2019 at 10:01pm

Technically, you are correct.
Except, like logging, looking after kids whilst wearing a leg rope would be far less enjoyable, and arguably more dangerous.

velocityjohnno's picture
velocityjohnno's picture
velocityjohnno commented Monday, 25 Feb 2019 at 10:13pm

Yes; often instructors will teach too without a board nearby - I do wonder if there might be instances when they wish they had one nearby...

I'm technically a hypocrite on this one as I was introduced to logs around 1994 when a girlfriend's father had a couple of originals we started surfing: years of no leggie, no one around cos it was uncool in that area, all the little reef waves that shortboards didn't bother with. It was glorious. A bit lonely, but glorious. 70's single fins in the juice.

These days I tend to think in terms of duty of care, care for others, "brothers' keeper" kind of stuff.

Blowin's picture
Blowin's picture
Blowin commented Tuesday, 26 Feb 2019 at 6:08am

Shreinermeister, my point is that you can continue to surf your log through crowds of people sans leggie if you please, but do try to remember your insouciance towards legal recourse when the outraged father of a child you’ve injured with your wayward barge is punching eight shades of shit out of you in the shore break.

Schreinermeister's picture
Schreinermeister's picture
Schreinermeister commented Tuesday, 26 Feb 2019 at 7:03am

Hahahahahahaha. Nice work Blowin.
Vintage soccer dad mentality teaching his kids to punch people.
“Should only take “one punch”, son. Maybe a couple more for good measure. Now off you go, out into the world to make a difference.”
Glad to see you’re so committed to public health initiatives for the greater good of our fellow humans.
Keep fighting the good fight mate. This is a worthy cause.

Schreinermeister's picture
Schreinermeister's picture
Schreinermeister commented Tuesday, 26 Feb 2019 at 7:13am

Also, may I request you apply your methodology to Ed next time he’s out being a menace? Maybe we’ll get lucky and you’ll take each other out.
Or do you only select androgynous young men to physically assault, tough guy?

Blowin's picture
Blowin's picture
Blowin commented Tuesday, 26 Feb 2019 at 7:44am

I haven’t threatened you at all. It won’t be me doing the punching , it’ll be the father of the ten year old girl you’ve destroyed in your pursuit of freedom.

Say what you like , fact is that there’s lots of innocent young kids playing around that don’t deserve a board to the face from some pretender who wants to kid themselves that they’re Mctavish in ‘61.

If an appeal to your commonsense isn’t working , maybe you should factor in that there are regular , happy people out there who WILL react like Ed if you hurt their kids.

And it’s when your jaw is wired up and you’re eating your meals through a straw that we will discover just how opposed to legal action you are.

It’s not about tough guys , it’s about hurting children playing......what don’t you understand ?

Are learning difficulties an androgynous young guy thing ? Maybe try loosening the man bun , allow a bit of blood flow to your brain.

channel-bottom's picture
channel-bottom's picture
channel-bottom commented Tuesday, 26 Feb 2019 at 10:42am

Schreinermeister - Out of curiosity, what is your local break? No specifics if you're not comfortable, just general location?

velocityjohnno's picture
velocityjohnno's picture
velocityjohnno commented Tuesday, 26 Feb 2019 at 8:47am

A quick reply, I don't know if you have children, but there exists in both men and women a very strong reaction of defence when those children are threatened. A scene at the beach with boards out the back and kids playing inside can transform from everyone chilling into something quite adversarial and scary in an instant if a parent sees a child threatened. I'm no tough man at all, but the only time I ever went completely ape shit in the surf was when a learner released a board in front of my niece riding a wave, hitting her and knocking her off. The scream was what did it - hard to describe as rational and legal thought left my mind. Luckily the fellow was sent in with very strong words rather than violence. I would argue this is an innate reaction rather than a culture of machismo ("don't have an opinion unless you can back it up with punches").

The flip side is the love and encouragement and nurturing of kids in little safe surf zones, everyone loves to see a grom zooming along a wave, it speaks to the best in all of us. Those safe surf zones exist in parallel with what makes a fun, summer log wave.

Yes those groms might grow up to be Chad Rippa and be really arrogant themselves, but if we show the right path and protect and care, they will have this as a cornerstone of their surfing.

I would be loathe to pay out on the younger crew who make longboarding look so beautiful (if I want to see good rail surfing with proper bottom turns and proper trim and style I will pick up 'Pacific Longboarder' rather than 'ASL') - but perhaps in the future luck will bless them with children of their own; if I'm out there I'll be protecting them as if they were mine. I was lucky to be introduced to Aloha from a man who learned it via the Duke as a small child - the care and love of kids surfing is something we can all enjoy, and we can think of how to protect, mitigate risk to them, and enjoy our waves at the same time. That last point goes for everyone - middle aged guys on shortboards with leggies, learner Euros on midlengths, loggers, vapeshifters, any demographic you care to name.

Schreinermeister's picture
Schreinermeister's picture
Schreinermeister commented Tuesday, 26 Feb 2019 at 12:12pm

Ok. I’ll wear a leg rope.

Ralph's picture
Ralph's picture
Ralph commented Wednesday, 27 Feb 2019 at 1:43pm

:)

bluediamond's picture
bluediamond's picture
bluediamond commented Thursday, 28 Feb 2019 at 2:58pm

Speaking of embarrassment...the pus is a beginners and kids wave. Wear a legrope if you want to take it more seriously than that.

memlasurf's picture
memlasurf's picture
memlasurf commented Tuesday, 26 Feb 2019 at 7:53am

Theres your problem right there....Prog Rock.

Blowin's picture
Blowin's picture
Blowin commented Tuesday, 26 Feb 2019 at 8:00am

I think prog rock could be the root cause of most of the world’s ills.

JackStance's picture
JackStance's picture
JackStance commented Tuesday, 26 Feb 2019 at 10:23am

Gary Willis: Nightclub

Breath. Murdoch's empire will one day fail to control our minds.

Liquidline's picture
Liquidline's picture
Liquidline commented Monday, 25 Feb 2019 at 7:14pm

The argument of the surfers code being the accepted norn could not be further from the truth, at the pass.
The excepted norm at the pass is that every one of those codes will be broken on every wave.
If your an accepted norm kinda person, surf at an accepted norm break

Liquidline's picture
Liquidline's picture
Liquidline commented Monday, 25 Feb 2019 at 7:19pm

Performance wise I’ve seen mick fanning throwing buckets on a soft top. Performance is therefore not a valid excuse for chooseing to ride a fibreglass board over a soft top. Soft tops are safer, don’t be a wanker riding a fibreglass board putting safety at risk

Liquidline's picture
Liquidline's picture
Liquidline commented Monday, 25 Feb 2019 at 7:25pm

As for salvage rights, I think you’d likely end up salvaging your teeth from down your throat if you tried that on

ringmaster's picture
ringmaster's picture
ringmaster commented Monday, 25 Feb 2019 at 8:32pm

That would really depend on who you are, tough guy.

freeride76's picture
freeride76's picture
freeride76 commented Monday, 25 Feb 2019 at 7:26pm

There's something to that argument, at least at the Pass.
I started riding a softy at the pass and felt heaps safer.

even without a leggy it's not going to kill a kid or hurt someone.

dastasha's picture
dastasha's picture
dastasha commented Monday, 25 Feb 2019 at 7:43pm

Softys are fun. You can get plenty of waves in the crowd.
But it doesn't come off the bottom well. Or off the top haha

velocityjohnno's picture
velocityjohnno's picture
velocityjohnno commented Tuesday, 26 Feb 2019 at 9:07am

A note on the softies - they still have hard parts. With some, the bottom plastic is still a hard surface. There's also a trend to replace the slightly flexible plastic fins (that can still hurt) with proper finboxes and regular FCS or futures. Now those fins hitting someone can cause as much damage as if they were in a glass board, I've seen it.

Elliedog's picture
Elliedog's picture
Elliedog commented Monday, 25 Feb 2019 at 9:44pm

This has been the most exciting forum on Swellnet for me ever. All bases covered. In my humble opinion..... where a fuckin leggy. I cannot see anyone... hipster or non hipster feeling great about killing a kid through head injury with a log

Luba

Stupot's picture
Stupot's picture
Stupot commented Monday, 25 Feb 2019 at 9:48pm

Is there now a potential market opportunity for jet ski legropes me asks?

Unemployment isn't working...

mackdog's picture
mackdog's picture
mackdog commented Monday, 25 Feb 2019 at 10:16pm

I think the solution is pretty simple. If a 10 ft log comes bouncing through the whitewater putting the safety of other surfers and kids at risk. Retrieve it, kick out the fin and hand it back. Legropes are much cheaper than fins.

morg's picture
morg's picture
morg commented Monday, 25 Feb 2019 at 10:59pm

I hope Ben and co can get the duty of care message entrenched. IMO everyone should be wearing a leggy when it’s crowded. A couple of summers ago a hipster’s lost log hit me and broke my ribs. I couldn’t surf for 8 weeks because the wanker didn’t wear a legrope. I respect everyone’s right to wear a legrope or not, but not when they are potentially dangerous to others.

Common Tata's picture
Common Tata's picture
Common Tata commented Tuesday, 26 Feb 2019 at 12:34am

Seems we've come full circle, back in the day pre modern leggy post, rope hole drilled in ya fin and hanky around ya ankle, we had the rubber leggy with metal button. Trouble was it was new and most surfers were used to doing a flick off and those rubber boys use to catapult straight back at you. After a guy who drowned from having an epileptic fit in the water was reported of being killed by his leggy Manly council tried to ban leggies and for a while the police use to come down the beach to tell people they were about to be outlawed. Unlike surfboard registratiom of the 60's the law never came into effect. First year they became popular I went against the trend dunno just didnt like the feel of being anchored. Soon became a convert though after as a teenager ordering my first custom from Barry Bennett's going to Avoca and first wave losing my board to the rocks, by the time I got to it, it was totally pinged and dinged beyond surfable. Been a leggy convert after that for the last 45 years,

rooftop's picture
rooftop's picture
rooftop commented Tuesday, 26 Feb 2019 at 3:19am

My pet topic and I missed it by 46 comments! Jeez, slow off the mark today.

Wear a leggie you nongs, or I'll make you lick the wax off it then rub it in chilli and surf it naked.

Optimist's picture
Optimist's picture
Optimist commented Tuesday, 26 Feb 2019 at 4:07am

Keep the lawyers out of the sea or it will come back to haunt you and follow Mack Dogs advice instead.

Spuddups's picture
Spuddups's picture
Spuddups commented Tuesday, 26 Feb 2019 at 5:21am

I think I've mentioned this before, but on Planet Spuddups non-legrope wearing hipster fools who can't control their boards in crowded conditions would be lined up and shot.

goofyfoot's picture
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goofyfoot commented Tuesday, 26 Feb 2019 at 5:54am

Yeah I think optimist has hit the nail on the head.
I’m not keen on seeing lawyers becoming involved in the surf, but as someone who is about to have a kid if they were injured by someone who had no care for others in a busy lineup you wouldn’t be getting your board back and depending on the reaction to that maybe a little wrestle afterwards.
It’s not that hard, just wear one

groovie's picture
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groovie commented Tuesday, 26 Feb 2019 at 5:54am

Well some interesting opinions here. Surfers code is sensible in the line-up however a surf in Bali with a few beginner Euros leaves a lot to be desired regarding surfing etiquette ( even with leggies on). Used to surf The Pass back in the early 80's before the backpacker invasion, these days don't even think of diverting off the M1 to Byron! Leggies make sense in crowded line-ups , it is just common courtesy.

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spencie commented Tuesday, 26 Feb 2019 at 6:51am

Good on the lawyers for doing something proactive about the egotistical wankers who put everyone else's safety in jeopardy. How about showing some personal responsibility. And on the topic of the Pass only being a longboard wave (whilst it mostly suits longboards) it can be great to surf on a shortboard too under the right conditions, coming from the experience of living there for 30 years.

easterly

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lostdoggy commented Tuesday, 26 Feb 2019 at 8:00am

To be fair, the guy that said it was a log wave also said it can be a shortboard wave under the right conditions as you say.

"the Pass is a 2 ft log wave, one of the best in the world, that occasionally endulges one’s desire to ride a twin, short fat JS, soft top, plank of wood or someone else’s girlfriend, when conditions allow."

dimdim's picture
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dimdim commented Tuesday, 26 Feb 2019 at 8:00am

In regards to calling for more regulations in the surf "Be careful what you wish for !"
Once lawyers get involved authorities get involved.
Remember that J Walking is an offence and when Abbott was PM cops in inner Sydney were enforcing that law.
I wear legropes.
I don,t think the Pass is an ideal place for little kids to learn how to surf. A few surfing dads will disagree with me on that one.

belly's picture
belly's picture
belly commented Tuesday, 26 Feb 2019 at 8:59am

If the Pass isn't a good place for littlies to learn what would be the next best alternative in the immediate area?

I grew up in Vic and had a plethora of gradual slow moving waves to learn on. Now a permanent resident of southern nsw and having a young one approaching learning age the east does not seem beginner friendly to me.

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dimdim's picture
dimdim commented Tuesday, 26 Feb 2019 at 9:17am

Wategoes maybe. Not being a parent I have never felt the need to introduce a young one into the water.
Maybe they would be better off doing some other sport until the discover surfing themselves.
Then again I hear the soccer parents can get quite violent these days.

Blowin's picture
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Blowin commented Tuesday, 26 Feb 2019 at 8:02am

No one wants lawyers or the law within cooee of surfing and you’ve got every right to surf without a leggie if you want .....I certainly do at times.

But just don’t do it in places where you’re jeopardising other people . Australia is way too big to ever need to do so anyway.

JackStance's picture
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JackStance commented Tuesday, 26 Feb 2019 at 10:34am

Law of the land.
Natural justice.
Karma.
Conscience.
A fair go.

Law v Justice.
The prior is mostly about upholding capitalism, and the latter is what seems to be the feeling that all of us here.

Breath. Murdoch's empire will one day fail to control our minds.

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stunet commented Tuesday, 26 Feb 2019 at 10:52am

It's worth pointing out that during my conversation with Ben Crawford from SLL, he pointed out that in 2000 there was a Surf Forum held in Byron Bay, commissioned by Griffith Uni and Surfrider Foundation and attended by various luminaries and surfing elders, amongst them Ian Cohen.

According to Ben, Cohen was staunch in his belief that laws shouldn't encroach on the surf zone. Paraphrasing: "The tribe needs to sort things out themself." 

Contrast that to Cohen's 2018 statement to the ABC about the growing danger of going legrope-free in crowds:

"I actually think we're going to need some sort of patrol thing, like lifesavers with their flags patrolling for safety," Mr Cohen said.

"Have a whistle and say to a person, 'look you're acting like a ratbag, you either get out of the water or we call the police'."

Mr Cohen said the growing trend that gave some surfers "an extra sense of freedom" was nothing but "selfishness".

It seems Ian Cohen has given up on the tribe looking after itself. So if 'tribal law' has failed, then what comes next?

Clearly, the lawyers at SLL believe real litigation - or the threat of it - will work.

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saltyone commented Tuesday, 26 Feb 2019 at 11:24am

Confirms the point we need tribal law! Won’t work unless it’s the whole tribe not just a few . Look at Hawaii - great tribal law without need for cops / legal practicioners. I see it as Cohen asking for more to join tribe and getting frustrated that people are being too complacent and not taking into their own hands but rather only wingeing about it on the internet or wanting legal teams to take over . Classic example of an ever growing apathetic and powerless society

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joesydney commented Tuesday, 26 Feb 2019 at 8:29am

What about wax? Can I elect to surf without wax? I find it cramps my style and messes up my chest hair.

udo's picture
udo's picture
udo commented Tuesday, 26 Feb 2019 at 8:37am

Would be about 1 in 100 incidents SLL would take on as No win No Fee.

saltyone's picture
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saltyone commented Tuesday, 26 Feb 2019 at 8:36am

How about just adding to the surfers code - “always wear a leg rope in crowded surf” with an image and also using the platform of surf reports to add in - just like it’s sometimes added in to slip slip slap on hot days etc to also write something like “make sure you also have a leggie on if the surf is crowded “It’s good to have these articles but why not just also have it written more often to drive the message home on a more personal and direct but friendly way .. sending the message that’s it’s NOT cool to be ropeless when a head could be severed ! Go for it Ben

JackStance's picture
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JackStance commented Tuesday, 26 Feb 2019 at 10:36am

"This surf report is brought to you by RipCurl"

Breath. Murdoch's empire will one day fail to control our minds.

Liquidline's picture
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Liquidline commented Tuesday, 26 Feb 2019 at 10:13am

A question for the protective fathers out there. Are you riding a soft top in the surf when kids are about.
They are safer after all

JackStance's picture
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JackStance commented Tuesday, 26 Feb 2019 at 10:38am

My children live in a bubble, have never seen the ocean, or tasted chocolate, and only eat broccoli and eggs.

Breath. Murdoch's empire will one day fail to control our minds.

tango's picture
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tango commented Tuesday, 26 Feb 2019 at 10:44am

As a father of an 11yo girl who loves her surfing, I'm always aware of what the various kooks are doing in the lineup but we have had a few near-misses. Perhaps I'm a bit of a kook, too, putting her in a couple of situations in crowds where she could get hurt, but everywhere she'll ever surf around here has kooks on all manner of craft so I figure better she's out there with me helping her understand how to stay out of the way and read things. I haven't really been able to differentiate the potential harm caused in crowds by any craft - heaps of people do stupid things regardless of what they ride.

I also find it can be therapeutic to simply and subtley help a stray log on its way towards the rocks - sometimes they just refuse to go straight at them - rather than risk losing your temper and getting into a blue.

While I'm a firm leggie-wearer, I'd make 2 extra points:
- I wonder where the issue of liability/at fault rests. If you watch the footage of Noosa/Goldy from last week, you will see muppet upon muppet paddling the whitewater line (or for the bloody shoulder) and get right in the way when sets come. How much fault can be attributed to someone running the gauntlet paddling out and getting generally injured or specifically hit by a stray legrope-free log?
- in my work on coastal issues, my observation is that everything to do with the coast is becoming more focussed on legal matters like duty of care, liability, compensation, etc. I would love surfing to stay free of it, but the writing is on the wall in flouro. Denying it is a bit like a climate-sceptic, making it harder to do anything to save the furniture once the shit hits the fan. Because surfers value autonomy so much, it's pretty unlikely that anyone will get organised to beat the imposition of legalese arising from some half-wit without a leggie seriously injuring someone.

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andosbf commented Tuesday, 26 Feb 2019 at 12:36pm

Wear leg ropes not top buns, brain damage isn't cool and broken ribs or a broken jaw can take you out of the water for months. Legal action is the only way to stop or discourage this selfish and dangerous behaviour hipsters think they are entitled to.

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sirboonie commented Tuesday, 26 Feb 2019 at 11:02am

a couple of near misses with guys riding foils at the Alley recently

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goofyfoot commented Tuesday, 26 Feb 2019 at 11:12am

"I also find it can be therapeutic to simply and subtley help a stray log on its way towards the rocks - sometimes they just refuse to go straight at them " - from tango.

ha ha ha ha
I am just picturing this now, just a gentle push, a soft guide to see it on its way

ron's picture
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ron commented Tuesday, 26 Feb 2019 at 11:23am

Seems like a bit of a Mexican standoff here.

No leg rope at super crowded spots isn't ideal at best and can be genuinely dangerous at worst however teaching a kid to surf at a spot with 100 punters and as many skill levels, leg rope or not, could be categorised the same.

I doubt actual statistics exist but would guess 9/10 surf injuries caused be another persons board would have a leg rope on it. A 10 foot log with 10 feet of rope is still a 20 foot radius. How many people are in that distance at the Pass? For the few stray boards ive seen hit people there would be 50 ive seen run over, speared, ditched in front of, wipe out on take off, etc etc all with legrope that hit people.

The only guaranteed fix to this problem is don't teach little kids to surf at the Pass even if every surfer was wearing a leg rope.

D taylor's picture
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D taylor commented Tuesday, 26 Feb 2019 at 11:47am

Y

Dave taylor

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garyg1412 commented Tuesday, 26 Feb 2019 at 12:37pm

Simple solution to this 1st World problem is to move south of 40 degrees where beards are for warmth, man buns are covered in hoods and carrying a (leashless) log through kilometres of bush to access surf is unheard of.
Location, Location, Location.

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Spuddups commented Tuesday, 26 Feb 2019 at 2:17pm

Ha ha, I was just down in bottom of the South Island last week. The day I left it was snowing on the mountains and was 10deg tops at the beach. Didn't see too many hipsters down there. Mostly just sea lions, penguins and orcas.

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gavin007 commented Tuesday, 26 Feb 2019 at 12:51pm

I had an interesting case this summer. Was crowded as and I'm paddling out. Some DH on a mal (could just have been a short board) instead of surfing around and behind me (which there was plenty of space and time to do) decides he has to stay on track nose-riding the board. Crosses right in front of my path. There was less than three feet in it, which was way too close. If he hit me, would he have breached his duty of care?

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Willliam commented Tuesday, 26 Feb 2019 at 1:37pm

Always paddle for inside big Gav. Stay away from the open face. Sacrifices must be made.

Or be way out wide.

gavin007's picture
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gavin007 commented Tuesday, 26 Feb 2019 at 9:38pm

Thanks William. Yes that is an option, a foam ball on the head is better than a board! If caught in the traffic zone, I usually paddle in a straight line so that the surfer can predict where I will be and I often put my hand up to get the surfers attention to make sure he's seen me. Would be curious to know what the situation is with a surfer who's remounting his board after falling on the previous wave. I guess my rant is I'm seeing more and more surfers not giving a rats about the safety of other surfers in the water - Duty of Care...

Luke02's picture
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Luke02 commented Tuesday, 26 Feb 2019 at 1:29pm

Why don't we collect these leashless boards out of the surf … a nice new mal awaits. Possession is 9/10ths of the law??

wax-on-danielson's picture
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wax-on-danielson commented Tuesday, 26 Feb 2019 at 2:47pm

What about when someone cuts someone in half with one of those new foil boards?

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tango commented Tuesday, 26 Feb 2019 at 4:01pm

BTW, Neil Lazarow tells me that he wasn't solely responsible for the development of the Code. He got it from Roscoe Kermode in WA and adapted it (with his permission) into a simpler version, and then got Coastcare funding to make the posters and stickers. Surfing Australia then took the idea some years later and made signs at beaches and used the Surfrider logo (which I'm not too sure was done with Surfrider’s permission or acknowledgement).

Roscoe's originals are works of art.

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Halfscousehalfc... commented Tuesday, 26 Feb 2019 at 4:45pm

Bit of a sad state of affairs if litigation is the answer....this is not the USA. Surely there’s a better solution. If we start opening Pandora’s box, next a simple drop in will be deemed harassment and intimidation.... what’s next.? We survived this long without litigation... the pass has been surfed without leggie for over 50 years and accidents happen. I think signage and educating people is the answer not suing some young bloke for 50 grand

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ringmaster commented Tuesday, 26 Feb 2019 at 4:52pm

" the pass has been surfed without leggie for over 50 years and accidents happen."

It has, but in 2019 the number of people in the water at just about any surf spot has increased exponentially. A loose board bouncing along in a line up years ago with 10 people compared to now with 100 people jammed into the same space.

Everyone's a 'surfer' these days.

Halfscousehalfcockneyfullaussie's picture
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Halfscousehalfc... commented Tuesday, 26 Feb 2019 at 5:13pm

Yeah I hear your point, I just don’t think litigation is the answer

Gary G's picture
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Gary G commented Tuesday, 26 Feb 2019 at 7:32pm

Once you’ve tried it once, Gary just can’t imagine why anyone would choose to ignore the strap on option.

It just makes the whole thing that much more pleasurable for you and your water sports companions.

You and me, Gary, ain’t nothing but mammals so let’s do it* like they do it on the aerobics channel

*faceys

Halfscousehalfcockneyfullaussie's picture
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Halfscousehalfc... commented Tuesday, 26 Feb 2019 at 7:35pm

Too shay

truebluebasher's picture
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truebluebasher commented Wednesday, 27 Feb 2019 at 12:24am

Wow! Hot Topic & a great read thru all comments as usual.

Have we the time to examine all eras of leggies good & bad ?

1820's Convict Surfers were confined by Leg irons looping Vine to walk the Surfcraft
1920's Surfboards injured Surfers leading to Surfboardriders being confined in Flags
1970's Sock Leggies increased crowds & now drop ins were common place.
1990's Boardrider's lazy leggy bailout transforms into raging Cyclonic Hills Hoist
2007 Legropes are banned from Wave Pools (Including [L] surfers)
2005 Drop ins on Bodybasherz leads to tourniquets/Lynchings/Bladed Rodeo
2013 Bodybasherz voted to reign in the Lynching Party. (Tug on drop-ins leggy)
2010 Hipsters log jam the line-up
2015 Wavepool Pro Surfer's leggie freezes up lower half of body in Athletes Arena.
2015 Legropes save gramps being zapped by lethal hot wired Shark Shield board.
2019 Several washed up Surfboards tie up Cyclonic rescue mob for hours.

Possibly help your Lawyer if the Surfers Code was half right...It should read...
[Remember No Surfing between the Black & White Flags]~(atop the Surfboard sign)
B/W Flags <[10m buffer] > Red/Yellow Fags is very much banned to Surfcraft)

Please forgive me for speaking out of turn but the code seems 100% jock!
*Paddle Wide/* Paddle Hard/ *First to their Feet / *Don't let go of your board
Code selfishly caters to Boardriders but totally disregards all other surf-forms. MeToo!

Sunday morning darts with dad-Go Hard Son! #%*! .."Carry on Son, he'll come good!"

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dandob commented Wednesday, 27 Feb 2019 at 7:55am

I had an incident two weeks ago where I got caught behind a section and pushed towards the beach on a mal with a mates young daughter paddling out right in front of me. Guarantee that if I wasn't wearing a leggy the board would have brained her at full speed.
Doesn't matter how good or lucky you think you are.... wear a leggy.

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thermalben commented Wednesday, 27 Feb 2019 at 8:04am

Not sure if this was posted above, but we did a follow up piece (to the initial 2013 article) in 2015: "Longboarders, legropes, and a dirty big laceration".

The reaction to this topic has by and large remained relatively unchanged over the last six years.

https://www.swellnet.com/news/surfpolitik/2015/02/13/longboarders-legrop...

Walk around G's picture
Walk around G's picture
Walk around G commented Thursday, 28 Feb 2019 at 6:08pm

What happened to the madness vid of the pass? Why was that pulled? I thought it really demonstrated this issue......

thermalben's picture
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thermalben commented Thursday, 28 Feb 2019 at 7:32pm

We haven’t pulled anything. Which vid are you referring to?

Walk around G's picture
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Walk around G commented Friday, 1 Mar 2019 at 9:29am

Oh, there was a vid someone posted in a very recent thread of 'kook' chaos at the pass, people running each other over, no legropes on etc. and a hipster with a mo. Was entertaining and ultimately why the descussion about legropes started. I can't find it anymore........

Walk around G's picture
Walk around G's picture
Walk around G commented Friday, 1 Mar 2019 at 12:11pm

Any ideas Ben..... I believe the thread also mentioned the legal add prior to stu's 'Legropes and the law' post.....

stunet's picture
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stunet commented Friday, 1 Mar 2019 at 12:17pm

Think that was in the forums, G. Cant recall which thread but AndyM posted it.

Walk around G's picture
Walk around G's picture
Walk around G commented Friday, 1 Mar 2019 at 12:22pm

Oh OK, I'll search there. Cheers, thanks

Blowin's picture
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Blowin commented Wednesday, 27 Feb 2019 at 8:17am

Stay aware , this is what you’re up against out there:

“3. Ride a wave at Bondi Beach

Surfing is an iconic part of Australian culture, and Bondi Beach is the preferred hotspot for both amateur and professional surfers alike. Don't worry if you don't have the right gear - you can hire what you need offshore. And if you don't know one end of the surfboard from the other, there are also surfing lessons available if you are willing to hit the waves.

Just don't be put off by the surfer dudes doing Eskimo rolls around you, because with a bit of practice, you will soon be kickflipping with the best of them!”

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savanova commented Wednesday, 27 Feb 2019 at 9:07am

In Indo a few years back I did the step off bail after not making a section, some how my leggie managed to return my board nose first into my own leg requiring a dozen of Indonesia's finest stitches and sending me home 4 days into a 3 week stay. Who do I sue?

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ringmaster commented Wednesday, 27 Feb 2019 at 4:22pm

^^^ Ketut.

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truebluebasher commented Wednesday, 27 Feb 2019 at 5:43pm

tbb has been hit by well over 500 surfboards still attached to riders leg
Never once have I been hit by a Surfer's loose board.
Loose surfboards in the line up are easy to read whereas humans are volatile.

Here we go tbb is naturally advocating a safer no leggy less crowded line-up?
Well not quite! Sure i'm against drowning in a sea of surf product.

During last big wave event Lifeguards could back me to free surf point 2 point.
Yet I'm branded a rusting hulk banned from dipping a toe in the ocean.

Least abled requiring $1000's surf aids to surf Point 2 Point are given free tickets
Surfers snapped Leggies lost boards & up to 100 needed rescuing.(Maybe more!)
Resulting in washed up boards & searches billing us $100,000's easy.
I could've of said I told you so!

I mentioned above a most serious meeting of Bodybasherz from far & wide (2013)

1)If you are wearing a legrope & drop in on a bodybasher you are likely to kill him/her.
Unbeknown to Boardriders their legrope trails up the face to Loop basher'z arm.
Any slight turn then torniques said arm. Resulting in a wipeout of the two parties.
Tremendous force near amputates if not de-fleshes or reddens the bodybasher'z arm.

2)Should surfer's legrope centre the waveface then it loops over bodybasherz head.
Now combine dog collaring with waterboarding to near drown the basher.
This is so horrid even to relay to you all. I bloody well hate it! (Near death experience)
Now consider if drop-in surfer wipes out at that very moment. (A public hanging!)

3)Late take offs/cutties end in collision almost finishing off Bodybasher (Bad enough).
Surfer's legrope then hog ties Basher to underside blades mincing away in the barrel.
This is standard mutilation procedure of basherz resulting in a year's recovery.

Everyone of these war crimes are attributed to Drop-in boardrider'z (leg ropes)

2013 Bodybasherz voted 100% [3 STRIKES] Leggy Tug as a last line of defence.
Needless to say our plan has a flaw...["You're F....n dead c..t !"] {R.I.P} Basherz.
Seems that the drop in crew are mostly made up of sensitive type murderers.

Boardriderz have their head in clouds rarely do they surf inside out.
Rail riding the Bunning's Cart thru- set wave 4 then back to the trolley bay.
Boardrider sails clear skies ahead as deeper back the basher is hangin' on for dear life.
"Don't mind me...Just press flush at the Plumbing isle thanx mate."

Perhaps I am Anti Leggy?
I'd rather think I was more pro lineup awareness.

Never assume your safety strategy doesn't harm local fauna & flora.
Quite obviously surfboard leggies are a clear & present danger to prone surfers.

Are we to assume that all Surfers with Leggies drop-in on us more... just to kill us.
I must ask! Who knows any surfer so mean to even consider doing that....
Look away! 6 Boardriders on 6 waves dropped- in to thwart my mercy dash to shore.
Everyone of them wearing a legrope! Their legropes never made them care any less.

Sure i do get harmed in a sea bodybasherz between the flags.(Occasionally serious)
SLSA insist that my harm increases with each step toward the WSR.

Here's a list of the biggest line up dangers to a freesurfer in WSR (waves aside).
1)Drop ins with leggies (In order- Chix/Saltz/Groms/Boogerz/Others)
2)Darting Dads (Spearing Groms)...("Ouch! Stop it! Double Ouch!")
3)Drop-ins without leggies (Hipsters)
4)Learner Paddle & Bail Swingsets
5)Upturned taught Leggy [L]board (To a basherz Eyeline a 5 clawed Beartrap )
6)Loose Surfboards(Light) Bladed-Unpredictable on windy days
7)Loose Surfboardz (Heavy)Nippers/Hipsters (Duck & cover)
8)Selfie Sticks (Up my Arse)
9)Drones (Pull outta my forehead)
10)Wide Supperz/Jet Ski mow downs(Dive Deeper)

No argument that with each new surf product the less Surfers care for each other.
Rich & Famous Jet Skis riders now break laws faster than Surfboardz.

Codes & gear must pass wider surfing community test.(No more marine debris)
Swellnet board swap is a good place to start.

dandob's picture
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dandob commented Wednesday, 27 Feb 2019 at 10:00pm

Does anyone on here speak truebluebashernees? You seem to have a great depth of knowledge but I can never for the life of me figure out exactly wtf you are saying, which is a pity, because I'm sure theres some deep insight buried under all the pseudo- pidgin babble.

Truth is though I pretty much skim past your posts because I can't access them.

I've battled through the jargan and semantics of two university degrees but I'm lost most of the time.

savanova's picture
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savanova commented Thursday, 28 Feb 2019 at 11:27am

2nd that

GODS QUAD's picture
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GODS QUAD commented Thursday, 28 Feb 2019 at 1:32pm

3rd that.

All I can think is: it must take so long to formulate these ramblings and next to nobody ever replies. What do you get out of it?

truebluebasher's picture
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truebluebasher commented Thursday, 28 Feb 2019 at 4:14am

dandob is kind to call it knowledge but that would be a painful way to learn.
As you said a great depth of local knowledge is essential to any language.
It is a rare upfront language spoken amongst Local Gold Coast Punkz/Basherz

Local surfers split in 1980...99.9% went fluro our lot were outcast as Punk/Basherz.
When I say Punk it means 'Original' on Gold Coast + Basherz mean No surf product.
This allowed ex skegz to still surf but as Originals/Basherz as in truebluebasher.
As a surfboard denies freedom & voids originality it was a no brainer. Win! Win!
Sure we were often set upon & ambushed ever trapped by 100 strong skegz.
Punk Basherz usually go 1000 miles an hour at your local gig. You can't keep up!

Should really read like a Punk Song of Basher'z localized Protest Lines.
Immortalizing local Skeg fuck ups as Track Listings on Blooper Punk LP
Fine if you got Bi-polar...Completely exhausting if you haven't.

Bands like The Strand our band Social Cancer,Chicken Skins,Blister(carry said lyric)
Once united to fight off local skegz who spat & jeered our local upstart Punk bands.
Falls short of hatred more like laughing in their face at what they become. Plastics!

Reading above I introduced a few new song titles based on real life drama.
(Darting Dads) Dads line up picking off an easy target like Basherz (Bodysurfers)
Spearing weaponized Kidz to take me out then get a reward for little to no effort.
To me that's a whole 3 hr surf session of last rites each & every lineup.
To the reader a 1 second protest slogan buried as last minute plea to end the killing.
Knowing full well that Darting Dads are gearing up with ever sharper dart sets.

A fuckfit thought it was fun to film me with a selfie stick! I said please Stop!
His Selfie stick ended up in my arse.(True)

A fuckwit thought it was fun to film me with a drone! I said please Stop!
Drone blades struck my forehead.(True)

I can't put a spin on that! It writes itself. I simply record the events as a protest.
Again knowing this will get much worse & none here believe otherwise!
Punk/Basher is the most dangerous combo as both are prime targets.
You need thick skin to be one or the other or fuckin mental to be both.

Park the Bunnings cart in trolley bay is just that. Swap with 'surfcraft & Line-up'.
Few would know the difference. Buy it/Sell it -They can't fake surfing with or without!

To be brutally honest after 40 years it best records surfing's fall from grace.
You can & can't easily access it ...That's the point as it's meant to bury in your face.
It does expand into key words sung out of place as a verse in musical format.
Yes! Like that Angels Song...you know the one...now you got it!
Locals may wade thru it where as outsiders might drown.(Larger than life it is!)

gcuts's picture
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gcuts commented Thursday, 28 Feb 2019 at 7:53am

Coupla thoughts n comments:

Good to see the real and IMO correct legal side of the 'no legrope' issue finally being put into the spotlight. Simple terms - duty of care. But, as the lawyers dude says, you need to be able to identify the fuckwit who didn't wear a leggie ... how do you get that? As a civilian, what right do we have to demand, obtain, the persons fuckwits details? By the time the Police get there, old mate fuckwit can be long gone ... so, yeah, maybe get is car rego? But, if he rides a bike? Follow him (or her)? Then what, you gotta prove it was his / her board that caused the injury? How? What evidence you got?

I'll put it out there now, we who hate these fuckwits need to support each other. Help each other if injured. Team up and confiscate the board until Police arrive. Track and locate the fuckwit board owner, and help Police locate them if fuckwit leaves the beach. It's time we stood up to these fuckwits!

Now, the flip side.

If a legrope breaks? What then? Who is responsible for the injury? The surfer, or the legrope manufacturer? Surfer did the right thing and wore a legrope but it broke ... was it in good condition? Who determines?

Let's follow this through ... let's say a broken legrope is a manufacturer issue. That is, broken leggie is cause of injury because surfer 'did the right thing, attempted to do right thing, but product failure causes injury' ... Logic that flows then is, manufacturer product liability insurance policy will go up in premiums, so well, yeah more costs to manufacturer, and so price of legropes will go up! We all fucking lose because of these fuckwits who do not want to wear one.

Marko's picture
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Marko commented Thursday, 28 Feb 2019 at 8:14am

I brought this up recently in Noosa, and got overwhelming support for bringing the issue to light. It is only a matter of time before someone gets seriously injured or worse. The Kooks seems to play in the kid areas of Noosa, and seriously believe it is everyone else's fault that their boards hit people!
www.surfingrules.com.au

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gcuts commented Thursday, 28 Feb 2019 at 8:33am

^^^ That website :)

Wendal's picture
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Wendal commented Thursday, 28 Feb 2019 at 8:30am

Can see the problem here...
If a skater or bike rider ghostie the bike/board and it hit you ?
Surely there’s been a precedent on these cases.

surfdog1's picture
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surfdog1 commented Thursday, 28 Feb 2019 at 10:08am

Been surfing since 1959. No leg ropes and folks taught young surfers how to paddle around a break instead of thought the break to avoid accidents. Folks learned how to swim before taking up surfing. Now most believe that a leg rope will save their lives, keep them from drowning. This is not the truth and leg rope manufactures say so on their products. To bring litigation into the argument is just kook lawyers trying to make a buck and sound all righteous and safety conscious and caring about their community. Teach the children how to swim, how to read the Ocean and know when it is safe for them to paddle out. Ban leg ropes and watch the crowd become smaller. This does not make anybody any richer and might even cause some companies to downsize their production levels.
Surfing for me and many others is about stepping off the land and leaving our fucked up world behind for a while. Enjoy a bit of peaceful recreation not competition or fame and fortune.
Enjoy and be safe out there.

What, me worry?

Marko's picture
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Marko commented Thursday, 28 Feb 2019 at 11:07am

Banning Legropes would be funny to watch, these kooks would still think they are surfers... but they would need rescuing as well as their boards smashing through the line up.

jez's picture
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jez commented Friday, 1 Mar 2019 at 10:03am

"don't let go of your board" - easier said than done in any serious waves. How about "look behind you if you have to ditch your board" (with leggy of course)

Jezdawg

LeBarry's picture
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LeBarry commented Friday, 1 Mar 2019 at 12:47pm

im still convinced leg ropes need to be worn by all. all good/real/respected surfers understand surf etiquette the others are just pretending

Walk around G's picture
Walk around G's picture
Walk around G commented Friday, 1 Mar 2019 at 3:13pm

AndyM...... post that crazy pass vid in this thread, clear as day that leg ropes should be worn after seeing that carnage.

AndyM's picture
AndyM's picture
AndyM commented Friday, 1 Mar 2019 at 5:01pm

I didn't post this originally but I don't suppose it matters.

https://www.facebook.com/watch/?v=805269796502181

It's almost certainly not The Pass, I'd say it's California.

Just about the dumbest bunch of fuckers I've ever seen!

loungelizard's picture
loungelizard's picture
loungelizard commented Friday, 1 Mar 2019 at 5:45pm

really laugh out loud funny that one. i watch it over and over..

Walk around G's picture
Walk around G's picture
Walk around G commented Friday, 1 Mar 2019 at 5:56pm

Yeh, probably too solid for the pass....but I'm sure it's close to what's going on there these days. Thanks for putting it up.

PCS PeterPan's picture
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PCS PeterPan commented Friday, 1 Mar 2019 at 3:58pm

SLL's details are now in my "CONTACTS" .
Surfing with no leggie means two things to me , your a self indulgent kook on a stupid log who thinks trimming and boring sllllooowww gentle turns looks cool . Or a deluded
goose on a shortboard in gutless waves , thinking that by taking off your leggie makes your board go faster .

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The unknown surfer commented Saturday, 2 Mar 2019 at 3:23pm

Hi all,

This is an interesting subject, I can each side of the argument because I am a surfer, a father, a kook lawyer ( I'm asporting that term) and I even spent a lot of time learning to surf on a 1960's single fin transformation board with no leg-rope, often with a MP or Duke style fantasy. I would like to say for the record I did this before it was cool and now evidently not so cool, it was simply the only surfboard I could afford at the time. I also have to say that when a surfer once said to me that I was dangerous out there because the swell was around 5 ft I got out immediately. So I would suggest to anyone with a problem with a surfer with no leg-rope, bring it up directly with the alleged hipster in question. I also have to say I have stopped a number of various boards, most notably a surf ski and a SUP from hitting my son at the beach. Alternatively, I have moved our spot accordingly because of a said risk or a fisherman deciding to cast near us or a millennial with a spear gun and a camo suit right near us or a kite-boarder (they seem super dangerous to me, with the cords of death and all). The beach is full of potential human born dangers. A couple of years ago in the season of the shark attacks, a guy came out in a jet ski and encircled a few surfers and I with burlei, I said 'are you right mate!', he looked at me incredulously and fanged it down the beach leaving us in a circle of blood and guts. Anyway, I wanted to know if there was merit in the notion of someone suing for negligence and if the Civil Liability Act would excuse a non leg-roped surfer.

The Civil Liability Act NSW gives the answer to whether surfing without a leg-rope that results in an injury is capable of being a tort (something you can sue for) of negligence. It is found in s 5B, general principles.

5B General principles
(1) A person is not negligent in failing to take precautions against a risk of harm unless:
(a) the risk was foreseeable (that is, it is a risk of which the person knew or ought to have known), and
(b) the risk was not insignificant, and
(c) in the circumstances, a reasonable person in the person’s position would have taken those precautions.
(2) In determining whether a reasonable person would have taken precautions against a risk of harm, the court is to consider the following (amongst other relevant things):
(a) the probability that the harm would occur if care were not taken,
(b) the likely seriousness of the harm,
(c) the burden of taking precautions to avoid the risk of harm,
(d) the social utility of the activity that creates the risk of harm.

In the case of a lose board colliding with someone, that is a risk that is foreseeable. The risk is not insignificant because a loose board could break bones, potentially lacerate and potentially knock out or even kill someone. In the circumstance, in general, of surfing, but perhaps specifically, whether it was larger surf or if kids were at the shore, most surfers take the precaution of wearing a leg-rope, and therefore it is the reasonable standard. But to address the criterion of s 5B (2), the probability of harm occurring if a leg-rope is not worn is relative to conditions eg, presence of kids at the shore, learners, groms, elderly surfers, wave size, size of crowd and skill and experience of the surfer. Generally, it could be assumed the more crowded, the higher the chance of injury. The likely seriousness of harm is as many commenters have stated, mortal peril, as one could imagine a Malibu colliding with the head of a swimmer or surfer. The burden of taking the precaution of wearing a leg-rope is non-existent, it is a cheap item and easy to install. The social utility (the value for the majority) of surfing without a leg rope (which creates risk) is non-existent.

In legislative interpretation it is important to look to the general purpose or principles sections usually found near the start of the Act or amendment before narrowing in on specific sections. This is because the general principles have a greater weight and a singular section should not contradict them unless specifically mentioning so. In this scenario, looking at Division 4 and Division 5 of the Act, without looking at the general principles of the Act might give the impression that a surfer without a leg-rope would not be responsible for an injury caused by their negligence, but, this is not the case.

The determination of the level of liability is dependent on the circumstances, besides what has already has been mentioned there is one other major point to consider, if the victim is surfing and knows the risks or are they simply swimming by the shore. Because despite that it is clear that not wearing a leg-rope is shown to annul protection of The Civil Liability Act by s 5B in most circumstances there is still potentially an argument that not wearing a leg-rope is safe in some circumstances and if an injury did occur because of that , there would be protection from Division 4 and 5 of the Act. There are lots of other scenarios to take into the scope of liability and the amount of contributory negligence.

Be excellent to each other.

truebluebasher's picture
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truebluebasher commented Sunday, 3 Mar 2019 at 5:39pm

Law is the Law but let's say the truth was presented before the Courts. What then?

Hawaiian Lifeguard Brian Keaulana (Surf Survival) reveals the opposite to be true.

"The leash is one of the biggest contributors to injuries."

http://www.surfline.com/surf-news/forget-sharks,-this-is-how-you%27re-re...

(Surf instructors say every surfer will likely be Injured by ones own board).

(Surf Survival): Surfer's injury statistics from [473 cases]
How?... 55% by own board / 18% Ocean Floor / 11% by someone else's board
By what?... Fins 41% / Rails 21% / Nose 14%
Injury?... Face 24% / Feet 20% / Head 17% / Legs 16%

Legrope injuries are not broken down in online paper...
(Represented by Surfers blogs +News titles contribution)
Legropes...
Rebounds are #1 cause of injury (Head injuries)
Coiling feet into razor sharp fins (Feet injuries)
Drop-in entangles boards & riders
Spin Cycle mincing (Fins cup then pin limbs to seafloor @ 30kms/hr grinding 100m)
Garotting /Lynching / Torniquete / De fleshing / Amputation {tbb told yer so!}
Snagged on Rocks for repeated sets {tbb has rescued 2 surfers snagged on rocks}
Snags on reefs (Drownings)
Tombstoning (Drownings) {tbb has rescued 4 surfers}Note: By releasing legrope!

tbb will unveil Surfer's Honour Roll surrounding surfcraft related Death.
Please note I have protected the names {R.I.P}
The purpose is to honour our fallen Watermen as our guiding light.
With true swellnetonian's respect...silence will follow...

The most recent deaths by stray surfcraft were at Kurrawa Aussies SLSA #1 patrols
1996 Surf boat Collision / 2010 Surf Ski / 2012 Paddle Board

The most recent 'serious' non fatal 'Stray Surfboard' collisions.

Jan/8/2010 The Pass Byron Bay 10 y/o(Surfboard tip fractured boy's skull.)
Mob raged on about Mals & Crowds. (Cops say neither had anything to do with it!)
*World's #1 Surfers/Shapers have long called for rounded noses on Boards.

Feb/12/2018 Newcastle Beach 49 y/o (Surfer's Fins sliced open the face of swimmer)
Newcastle/Manly/Bondi Flag swimmers are hit by leashed Surfers very seldom strays.

Our surfers list may be read in context with 'Surf Survival' findings applied.
Noting Legrope + ones own board as the starting point for answers.
Would they be with us had their boards been released at time of impact?
No one directly saw fellow surfer's final moments but we can Honour them!
What astounded tbb was just how many surfers have fallen in this spirit... {Salute}

(2013-2018)(Following male surfers were killed 'with' own board)

9 June 2013~The Pass Byron Bay 36 y/o (Hit in head by own board)Police:No crowds
The masses again screamed for legropes & to ban hipsters?

11 Aug 2014~Island of Sumbawa 27 y/o (Dumped on Reef)
5 Sept 2014~Sorga Beach Lambock 48 y/o (Hit by heavy Wave)
5 Oct 2014~Sunshine Beach Noosa 26 y/o (Knocked unconscious on sandbank)
5 Nov 2014~Surfer's Point Prevelly 51 y/o (Fin chopped leg Artery)

25 Aug 2015~South Sapora Mentawai Is 54 y/o(Caught inside,body/head smashed) Note: fellow surfers found board no longer attached...(Perhaps he was snagged?)

20 Jan 2016~Turners Beach Yamba 54 y/o (Hit smack bang on the face-unconscious)
18 Feb 2016~Broadbeach Gold Coast 36 y/o (Bodyboarder freefalls/Tombstones)
Tombstone: Surfers weight on leash reverse anchors board (TS) denying resurface

2017

23 April 2018~Padang Bali 34 y/o(Wipeout breaks board-Surfer unconscious)
21 Aug 2018~Little Avalon NSW 62 y/o (Legrope hooked on Reef-Drowning)
19 Dec 2018~Rainbow Bay Gold Coast 70 y/o (Hit the Head by own board)

~~~~^~~~/\~~~//``~~~/(C..{ R.I.P )*

truebluebasher's picture
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truebluebasher commented Monday, 4 Mar 2019 at 12:13pm

{R.I.P}

Cheers to Swellnet for webcasting and sponsoring Noosa Festival of Surfing.
This festival wouldn't exist if legropes were enforced or be pretty boring with leggies.
Past highlight reels don't sell leggies.

I doubt you'd win any of the el primo oldschool surfing trophies by wearing one.
More than likely trip over yourself trying.

Move onto the future of surfing & we also see leggies are banned in Oz wave Pools.
Oz Aloha Surfhouse (No Leggy rule).Surf Oz Groms in Wavepools (No leggy rule)
Not to be confused with (self governing) Wave Parks/Wave Lagoons/Surf Lakes.

The microcosm of Wave pool arenas will no doubt redefine attitudes to crowd safety.
Machinelike Wavepools afford little to no time for unravelling leashes.
Legropes weaponize surfboards in impact zone thus denying urgent Lifeguard assist.
Wipeout! Clear the skid pan. As WA surfhouse boards flow to return chute > gutter.

No time for standing there staring at headlights with board anchored in line-up.

No doubt future safer return chutes will return waveboards to take off zone...
This rules out hard pointed boards becoming weapons thru-out the Water Park
One of the reasons OZ water Parks weeded out previous hard rail Toboggans.(2005)

Few here would consider leggy wrangle & tangle slowing crowded 'Wave Pools'.
'Wave Parks' are less crowded & usually more expensive. Wear leggies if you like!
Mindful each ranch wave you block may cost your surf buddy a couple $100 bucks.

Some surfers selfishly blockade 1/2/3 set waves while anchoring down in Prime Time.
(A lame board 6ft x 2ft) vs (Armed tripwire space station orbiting 20-30ft wide )
Which wreck is easier to navigate piloting a 30km/hr surging beast?

Is there time enough for leggie twirling in future crowded A frames & Point breaks?

Will surfing adopt over crowded no leggy Pool Rules for overcrowded Point line-ups?

Will Surf Industry tie up...coming of age Wave Pool market with his & hers legropes?

Those celebrating classic surfing don't wear leggies!
Future world has already raced ahead prohibiting leggies!
Here & Now can't safely say we're better off with leggies!

(Legropes in Olympics)
Fully abled Olympic Surfing athletes unsportingly restrain lower body movement.
Then should 'Waist-down' disabled surfing be reclassified as a Paralympic Sport?

Apart from nippers boards in Flags I've never seen a riderless surfboard claim anyone.
Fools may injure slightly by catching them mid flight so to return them to the Skegz. Seeing people hit by leashed Boardriders. I've lost count after 1,000's upon 1,000's.

Superbank with 100 rogue Surfboards or Superbank with 100 rogue boardriders?
I feel safer at Superbank with 1,000 rogue Surfboards over 10 rogue boardriders.
Even return washed up boards if you like, during dreamtime Superbank runarounds.

tbb started in sock leggy era & I am not anti leggy just the drop-in leggy entitlement.
I understand that many preach safe surfing & we all must wear leggies to bed.
Either we give it a rest or wake up to the fact the world has moved on.
Safety begins & ends with surfers above all products. (Leggies can't buy safety)

If I had to rate the real usefulness of the legrope.
I reckon it would rate right up there with Dodgem Car Seat belts.
I never said as useless as shit as crew already had that much figured....surfjustsurf

PS:(Free tip)
Surfers get fined for losing boards on Hwy never for steering boards into the Flags.
Yet drivers are protected inside cars whereas Swimmers have no protection.
Clearly the law values cars higher than people...Care for a dip!

TheMaharadscha's picture
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TheMaharadscha commented Tuesday, 5 Mar 2019 at 3:53pm

Saw the ad, and tis article completely changed my perspective.

Solid write-up

- I like to party -

Troz's picture
Troz's picture
Troz commented Wednesday, 6 Mar 2019 at 12:35am

I surfed for 20 years without a leggie and no one said a thing. But the last 5 years or so since swellnet did the original story I've copped so much grief ive had to wear a leggie again. FU swellnet the leggie is off and FU haters go back to playing tennis and talking litigation.

evohan's picture
evohan's picture
evohan commented Wednesday, 6 Mar 2019 at 5:25pm

what happens if you get hit by a board that the leggie has broken or still has a person attached ? Risk is out there at all time. I hate the long swim for my broad when i break a leggie

river's picture
river's picture
river commented Wednesday, 6 Mar 2019 at 7:57pm

To all the cool dudes that dont wear leg ropes at crowded breaks especially waves where kids surf piss of ya poser wankers . If anyone hit my kids or my wife with an out of controll log then i hope they would expect the punch that was coming their way . Onya Ben its a shame it had to come to this but someone had to reign in those fake ass falafal munchin hipsters . And Ben your a legend for teaching me and crispy to skate when we were grommets down the grange .

Dmason

Womble123's picture
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Womble123 commented Friday, 29 Mar 2019 at 2:21pm

is that Crispy of Island fame?

AndyM's picture
AndyM's picture
AndyM commented Friday, 29 Mar 2019 at 1:11pm

"The Byron Shire Council is looking at ways it may be able to legislate to force people to wear legropes while surfing crowded breaks.

Councillor Cate Coorey told the ABC she had first-hand experience of the dangers posed by loose boards at The Pass in Byron Bay.

She is putting forward a motion at today's council meeting calling for a pubic safety awareness campaign around the issue.

Councillor Coorey said the practice of not wearing legropes was too dangerous to be ignored."

https://www.facebook.com/ABCNorthCoast/photos/a.109194915768412/22852735...

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tango's picture
tango commented Thursday, 4 Apr 2019 at 10:05am

We've just spent a couple of weeks in Noosa watching the carnage unfold on the points when longboarders lose their boards. There were probably more direct collision, runnings-over and bailed board incidents than people getting cleaned up by a leashless stray board. Mind you, when the leash-free boards went loose they caused pretty severe damage.

In 2 weeks we saw one other person on a log with a leggie, despite there being a great many internationals, wannabes and kooks being in the water all thinking they were Harrison. I was dodging people and trimming just behind the curl on a 1ft wave when a european woman let her board go in front of me and cracked me with a rail across the shinbone. One foot and still couldn't control it.

And therein lies a key part of the issue to me: the good loggers really are exceptional in their control and a leggie would be completely in the way with some of the stuff they do, but the other 95% have no such control and they are 99.9% of the risk.
But that still doesn't mean that an F1 driver should be able to fang through streets at 160kmh.

truebluebasher's picture
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truebluebasher commented Thursday, 4 Apr 2019 at 2:03pm

Endless supply of leashed maniac Go Pros notching board deck with paddlerz tally..
Pros be too lazy to mow down 1 victim if they had to wade 5 yards to fetch weapon.
Toddler tethered Pros yo-yoing drones as they Jetski jump into bikini booths.

Surf Products are to blame for increasing violence into the lineup...No hiding facts!
WSL Majestic Ocean Pro makeover theme of back alley thugs mugging a punter.
Wake up & sniff the Jetski fuel in the line-up. Pro's order & abuse evil mod cons.

Decades on... the news rarely heralds "Ghostrider claims Topless Body."
Sea of surf product is now norm where a single leashed skeg can repeatedly clobber.
"Sorry! I Didn't see ya again for the third time in a row now mate!"...5 x actually Ouch!

Simple! Strive for Zero harm upon fellow sea life or keep the shit out of the ocean.
Sure! Wind it up on a stick then sling shot Grandma...still doesn't make it alright.
Call it Visual pollution or Toxic Shock weapons it has no place in the Ocean.

We the living kind say Surf is nature's playground..add nothing...Surfjustsurf
Same Truckload of Zombies keep blowin' the sweetest #1 intergalactic gig..

Uncoil leggie & pack up the beach, declutter Hwy all the way back to the kitchen sink.

Off rails / Off grid...simply surf how you dream with no limits ~ just fly & be free!