Legropes: The Weakest Link

blindboy
Surfpolitik

Every system has a weak link; the point where it is likely to either cause complete failure, or at best, an unnecessary decline in performance.  

If we look at a surfboard as a system the weak link is obvious; the leg rope.  Individual boards have individual characteristics that make them suited to certain kinds of surfers but most surfers are fairly sophisticated consumers and capable of selecting a suitable board.

The basic design of a board then is usually suited to its purpose.  Much the same can be said of fin design.  The range of functional shapes is fairly well understood and suitable fins for a particular board can be discovered by trial and error as the vast majority of boards have interchangeable fin systems.  These various systems for attaching fins to the board are the subject of frequent criticism but, by and large, failure is rare.  In any given surf session the fins are unlikely to be a problem.

Traction between surfer and board, while the cause of occasional misadventure, is usually reliable. A range of waxes for different conditions are now readily available as well as a wide variety of deck pads.  Theoretically it may be better to have the deck covered with some permanent non-slip coating but all attempts to produce and market such a product have come up against the conundrum that the degree of friction has been high enough to irritate unprotected belly skin.  Wax seems to sit in some frictional sweet spot, high enough to provide grip for the feet without being so high as to always irritate skin.

The leg rope though is subject to two serious problems.  The first is tangling.  The surfer getting to his feet can find the leg rope looped around his leading leg, trapped underfoot or stuck between his toes.  All of which are likely to cause loss of performance if not complete loss of control.  Keeping the attachment to the the ankle strap aligned with the Achilles tendon and stretching the kinks and twists out of the rope itself may reduce the risk of tangling but it does not eliminate it.

But these issues are as nothing to the......what can you call it?  String? Boot lace? Blind cord?  Whatever it is, this is not so much bad design as the total absence of design.   Here we are with a thousand dollars worth of sophisticated equipment attached to our leg by a mechanism that is difficult to use, unreliable and, if not used correctly, likely to cause damage and even injury.  Some manufacturers are so embarrassed by this that they do not even provide it with their product.  

It may be that most problems are caused by human error but if we think about that for a moment the people most likely to have difficulty are novices and inexperienced surfers- those who are also most likely to drown or need rescuing if the cord does detach from the board.  Not everyone was a Boy Scout and the correct knot is not immediately obvious. Nor is it obvious that the cord is capable of damaging the tail area of the board.  Does any leg rope manufacturer actually include instructions? Not in my experience!

The solution to both these issues is a total redesign of the attachment mechanism to improve reliability and reduce the risk of tangling.  An entry point to finding a solution could involve looking at how the rope actually orients itself when everything goes right.  The fabric tag aligns with the stringer so a section of the rope trails directly behind the board before looping back to the ankle.  This is probably the minimum drag position so designing the attachment to maximise the chance of the rope taking that position makes sense.   So the mechanism needs to be a light weight, reliable connection, easy to fit and that orients the leg rope to the position of minimum drag and minimum risk of entanglement.  

Anyone up for the design brief?  You probably won't get rich but it would make a lot of surfers happy! //blindboy

Comments

freeride76's picture
freeride76's picture
freeride76 commented Tuesday, 5 Jan 2016 at 9:04am

Sorry mate, you've lost me. You mean the string that attaches the leggy to the legrope plug on the board?
Most leggy;s have this incorporated into the cord/velcro now; it's easy as. If it's shorter than the distance from the leggy plug to the rail you shouldn't get a string pull through the rail.

Tangling? Sometimes. Maybe once a session, maybe not.

I can't quite see the problem.

If I had to give legrope design a scale out of one to ten in terms of impacting my surfing performance I'd give it a 1.

That aside, good to see you back on the horse.

blindboy's picture
blindboy's picture
blindboy commented Tuesday, 5 Jan 2016 at 10:43am

Once a session is really once too often freeride. And yes some ropes do provide an easy fitting string, but many don't. Take a look around and notice how many boards have the string too long. You can blame human error but good design should prevent that. Thanks for the encouragement.

yocal's picture
yocal's picture
yocal commented Tuesday, 5 Jan 2016 at 10:01am

BB I'm thinking along the line that the current solution may be the best available. You could force the leggy tie to be directed backwards, but when the board is thrashing about in the whitewash, chances are that the leggy tie is going to need to be a very flexible joint in every direction possible. I've seen the leggy tie put dings in the tail or tear tailpads before so there's plenty of force being applied.

If the tie is oriented backwards either the housing or the legrope itself then becomes the weak point.

Go deeper Taylor, go deeper!

blindboy's picture
blindboy's picture
blindboy commented Tuesday, 5 Jan 2016 at 11:23am

You could be right yocal and if someone from R&D at fcs wants to tell us they have tried a range of possible solutions and none are an improvement then that would strengthen your argument. Until then I remain firmly of the belief that there is a better solution out there!

yocal's picture
yocal's picture
yocal commented Tuesday, 5 Jan 2016 at 12:09pm

sounds like you have an idea in mind?

The only thing that 'sprung' to mind for me is something highly elastic that pins the cord toward the tail but can stretch exceptionally if forced in the opposite way. I can't imagine a solution like that would last long before breaking/overstretching though.

Go deeper Taylor, go deeper!

happyasS's picture
happyasS's picture
happyasS commented Tuesday, 5 Jan 2016 at 10:54am

jesus, talk about 1st world problems ;) I doubt there will ever be a soln that eliminates all twisting...any long flexible cord designed to bend in 3 dimensions has some tangling issues. like your power extension cords at home or your headphone leads....just one of lifes many frustrations that we are forced to put up with.

but does the legrope really contribute all that much to drag in the water? seems like such a small dead weight in comparison to the momentum of a human standing on a board.

david-oz's picture
david-oz's picture
david-oz commented Tuesday, 5 Jan 2016 at 3:46pm

As a proud kook, I totally related! ;-)
Few years ago after a long diner with a mix of kitesurfer and surfer friends, I came with the idea of a modified connecting system and a little modification on the rope.

It would be using the standard leggie plug, and force the rope to be aligned with the stringer. The "cross" section of the rope on the first 2 foot of length would reduce loops. And having a base slightly above the board would reduce the drag...

Now if FCS wants to finance the project ;-)

Happy kook

blindboy's picture
blindboy's picture
blindboy commented Tuesday, 5 Jan 2016 at 11:26am

Go ask them David. The worst that can happen is that they will say no.......then steal your idea! More likely they will consider it and give you an honest response. Try them all, there's nothing to lose.

david-oz's picture
david-oz's picture
david-oz commented Tuesday, 5 Jan 2016 at 11:49am

If you know the right person/department to contact? ;-)

Happy kook

blindboy's picture
blindboy's picture
blindboy commented Tuesday, 5 Jan 2016 at 12:16pm

Brian Cregan is co-owner of Ocean and Earth and has an interest in this area. They are at Sussex Inlet down south. Try emailing them.

http://www.pacificlongboarder.com/news.asp?id=3035&category=1

david-oz's picture
david-oz's picture
david-oz commented Tuesday, 5 Jan 2016 at 3:45pm

Brilliant! ;-)

Happy kook

udo's picture
udo's picture
udo commented Tuesday, 5 Jan 2016 at 11:05am

Anyone tried a boogie leash, the coiled up type on a standup board ?

surfer99's picture
surfer99's picture
surfer99 commented Tuesday, 5 Jan 2016 at 11:18am

Why not just learn to surf properly and not use a leggy at all?

thermalben's picture
thermalben's picture
thermalben commented Tuesday, 5 Jan 2016 at 11:25am

Oh, here we go.

blindboy's picture
blindboy's picture
blindboy commented Tuesday, 5 Jan 2016 at 11:29am

Noooooooo! Leg ropes save my life every surf. We would all be smashed by loose boards from those people who can't currently surf "properly" and never will. Not to mention all the groms going for wild airs with a 5% chance of landing them.

rooftop's picture
rooftop's picture
rooftop commented Tuesday, 5 Jan 2016 at 1:27pm

Yes indeed. The next time someone's loose board is spearing towards your kids in the shore break you'll remember why leg ropes are such a good idea.

It's true that it could do with some design improvement though. I'm going to try the coiled body board type just for the heck of it.

surfer99's picture
surfer99's picture
surfer99 commented Tuesday, 5 Jan 2016 at 11:59am

Leg ropes deny grommets the opportunity to learn from their mistakes.

Rabbits68's picture
Rabbits68's picture
Rabbits68 commented Tuesday, 5 Jan 2016 at 12:21pm

Interesting issue you raise BB.

The problem with using a bodyboard coiled leash is that it will straighten out/permanently stretch under the excessive weight of a surfboard. This even happens under the weight of a bodyboard in heavy waves.

However the coiled leash designed for surfboards may be of some benifit if designed appropriately.

Crystal Clear

Craig's picture
Craig's picture
Craig commented Tuesday, 5 Jan 2016 at 12:45pm

Coiled leash would create even more drag IMO, with each coil catching the water.

Also paddling it would create lots of drag under water as well. No good for surfing.

benski's picture
benski's picture
benski commented Tuesday, 5 Jan 2016 at 1:09pm

Coiled leashes also have that rather annoying property of re-coil (until they stretch straight). Using one of those will almost kill you. A square (ish) foam thing skimming at your head is a lot different from a glass dagger.

Rabbits68's picture
Rabbits68's picture
Rabbits68 commented Tuesday, 5 Jan 2016 at 1:25pm

True :)

Crystal Clear

zenagain's picture
zenagain's picture
zenagain commented Tuesday, 5 Jan 2016 at 1:12pm

Coiled leggies had a brief period early 80's. They came and went pretty quickly.

Watashi wa metabo oyagi desu.

thermalben's picture
thermalben's picture
thermalben commented Tuesday, 5 Jan 2016 at 1:18pm

How about the Sidewinder leggies - anyone remember them?

Can't find a pic anywhere on the internet; will have to get Stu to trawl through the magazine archives for an image.

What a stupid idea!

rogg's picture
rogg's picture
rogg commented Tuesday, 5 Jan 2016 at 2:07pm

Did you mean one of these? Terrible kitesurf legrope that retracts? Big, heavy. Usually attacked to your harness. Better off on a kite with nothing.

https://www.google.com.au/imgres?imgurl=http://www.powerkiteshop.com/ima...

thermalben's picture
thermalben's picture
thermalben commented Tuesday, 5 Jan 2016 at 2:14pm

Very similar, but I'm relying on a 25-year-old memory. Will have to find the pictures in an old mag. 

Craig's picture
Craig's picture
Craig commented Tuesday, 5 Jan 2016 at 1:27pm

Image from Zen showing damage to a new tailpad by the leggy rail-saver..

Lanky Dean's picture
Lanky Dean's picture
Lanky Dean commented Tuesday, 5 Jan 2016 at 5:31pm

Zen, did you keep the piece that came off? I have had this happen a few times before and i just super glued it back to the board. Actually after the first surf on a board with new grip i check to see how well the adhesive has taken/ bonded. If i see any places where it has not taken i glue the edges of the pad to board with the super glue. Works a treat!

zenagain's picture
zenagain's picture
zenagain commented Tuesday, 5 Jan 2016 at 6:28pm

Nah Dean, i would have but it floated away before I noticed.

Watashi wa metabo oyagi desu.

rooftop's picture
rooftop's picture
rooftop commented Tuesday, 5 Jan 2016 at 1:36pm

What about one that can extend quickly and easily, but then slowly contracts or coils so you don't get the sudden spring recoil action of a spiral leggy? In theory it should give you freedom of movement when taking off, will not extend more than necessary when riding a wave, thereby minimising drag, and in a wipeout situation it extends far enough to offer you some safety. By the time you've paddled back out it will be short again and less prone to tangle.

I realise this is all just concept-based and I have no idea about materials etc.

Craig's picture
Craig's picture
Craig commented Tuesday, 5 Jan 2016 at 1:40pm

Personally, toe/leggy tangle happens very rarely, maybe 1/100 waves?

And I've never had the black shoe-lace thingy come undone ever. Had the board damaged by it a few times but that was because it was too long.

I think there's no major problem and hence no major fix needed.

mibs-oner's picture
mibs-oner's picture
mibs-oner commented Tuesday, 5 Jan 2016 at 2:10pm

I think the leggy tangling problem could be solved by the way they are packaged. They sit folded on themselves for god knows how long wrapped so tight and no matter how much you let it sit in the sun before you use it (which every chance deteriorates the durability) there is always those kinks to it. Why not start with a basic fix to tangles by packaging with a gentle loop?

Mibs

thermalben's picture
thermalben's picture
thermalben commented Tuesday, 5 Jan 2016 at 2:22pm

I enquired about that exact issue when we got the Swellnet leggies done, and it caused many problems (I couldn't see why though).

Seems that most manufacturers are stuck on the standard packaging - whereas I would have though a perfectly round coil would be be fine for packaging, and ideal for surfers who need to use it straight away.

I should have persisted a little more.

salt's picture
salt's picture
salt commented Wednesday, 13 Jan 2016 at 11:13am

Hey Ben that reminds me, you gonna make anymore leggies? I got one a few years back and its still going strong, at a good price too!

Benny101's picture
Benny101's picture
Benny101 commented Tuesday, 5 Jan 2016 at 2:35pm

It looks to me like the above leg rope has been installed incorrectly making the. String longer than neccasary thus causing damage to the rail,

zenagain's picture
zenagain's picture
zenagain commented Tuesday, 5 Jan 2016 at 2:44pm

There is no rail damage, it's shadow and it's my board with the stringy thing attached correctly. The rail saver ripped the heel pad off second surf when it was brand new.

Watashi wa metabo oyagi desu.

weak man's picture
weak man's picture
weak man commented Tuesday, 5 Jan 2016 at 2:42pm

I get toe tangle from the leggy a few times every session, its really annoying and looks bad when I cant get my legs wide enough and do a feet stuck together bottom turn. I often experiment with the leggy a little loose on the ankle to try and keep it free from my front foot. Not sure if this keeps it running away from my front foot though.

silentp's picture
silentp's picture
silentp commented Wednesday, 6 Jan 2016 at 9:02am

Are you wrapping the legrope around the board after a surf and leaving it like that till you surf next? this is a surefire way to have tangling problems as the legrope maintains memory as a it is coiled and will catch your feet regularly

prickly

udo's picture
udo's picture
udo commented Tuesday, 5 Jan 2016 at 3:05pm

Zen, I think you have left a gap between the 3 heel sections when you glued it down leaving a gap where the leggie could slip in and tear one section off ?

zenagain's picture
zenagain's picture
zenagain commented Tuesday, 5 Jan 2016 at 5:24pm

Udo, scuse the late reply.

Maybe, but I've been doing that for years with my tail patches- splaying out the sections to give a little extra width. Usually they start deteriorating from the front back but this was the first time I've had a piece of heel pad rip off. Sometimes they've popped up and I have to stick them down again but never one rip off and only second surf on it to boot.

Maybe just got it in the sweet spot? Who knows?

Watashi wa metabo oyagi desu.

kaiser's picture
kaiser's picture
kaiser commented Tuesday, 5 Jan 2016 at 3:20pm

Swivels at the board end and also the ankle end help with twists/ tangles. Some leggies only have one swivel, usually at the board end. Also good quality stainless parts so it doesn't corrode and stop moving freely

Viccar99's picture
Viccar99's picture
Viccar99 commented Tuesday, 5 Jan 2016 at 3:24pm

Go to Bali and talk to jeff Alexander, he has 50% of the design issue solved years ago. He has a design with the current leg rope that avoids snapping the board and rail...... True and tested in ulu's

udo's picture
udo's picture
udo commented Tuesday, 5 Jan 2016 at 3:41pm

Pic of him on inertia..at fuckn massive outside corner.shit.

caml's picture
caml's picture
caml commented Tuesday, 5 Jan 2016 at 3:36pm

Eliminate the rail saver totally . Thicker & shorter cord too

pointy's picture
pointy's picture
pointy commented Tuesday, 5 Jan 2016 at 5:44pm

I remember ye olde days when leggies were still newish. They used to fly back and knock your head off and also only lasted about 6 - 8 months.

The current ones are a much better product.

The tangling around your feet could maybe stopped by using a stiffer urethane - but that may create other issues with their stretch and recoil...

udo's picture
udo's picture
udo commented Tuesday, 5 Jan 2016 at 6:49pm

8 inches of heatshrink tubing added plug end of leggie - from the swivel bulb outwards [without railsaver] may stiffen it enough to keep it clear of feet ?

pointy's picture
pointy's picture
pointy commented Tuesday, 5 Jan 2016 at 6:45pm

that could be a simple fix

chickenlips's picture
chickenlips's picture
chickenlips commented Tuesday, 5 Jan 2016 at 5:51pm

Get a reel problem! Can we kill sharks again!? Fin soup! Yummy!!

evosurfer's picture
evosurfer's picture
evosurfer commented Tuesday, 5 Jan 2016 at 8:26pm

Seriously!!! I'm from the era of curtain line and hankies with the rope tired to a drill hole thru the fin if it didnt rip your fin out it tore your ankle off or ripped your fin out and your here saying o gee my leggee got wrapped around my foot once or twice. F - - - me get a grip no wonder we are breeding the softest kids cry babies don't upset the kiddies world in history. Yes they can break and cause a bit of a problem but 99.99% of the time they save our and every bodies arse. I'm truly dumfounded by this.

IF im not surfing im racing

blindboy's picture
blindboy's picture
blindboy commented Tuesday, 5 Jan 2016 at 8:39pm

I got a laugh out of that evo.

Coaster's picture
Coaster's picture
Coaster commented Tuesday, 5 Jan 2016 at 10:42pm

Agreed, the current legrope is a huge improvement on the original improvised gear. We used to use a dog collar instead of a hanky. And some kind of fisherman's knot to attach the cord to the hole drilled in the fin. I don't think there was ever a risk of pulling out the old glassed-in fin. But the blind cord had a bit of stretch in it and you had to stay under a little longer to avoid a board to the head after a wipeout.

blindboy's picture
blindboy's picture
blindboy commented Wednesday, 6 Jan 2016 at 9:10am

I copped a broken nose that way coaster. Those early ropes with blind cord through the middle were deadly.

blindboy's picture
blindboy's picture
blindboy commented Wednesday, 6 Jan 2016 at 9:13am

......deadly in its literal non-indigenous usage.

rule303's picture
rule303's picture
rule303 commented Friday, 8 Jan 2016 at 7:13pm

evosurfer wrote: Seriously!!! I'm from the era of curtain line and hankies with the rope tired to a drill hole thru the fin if it didnt rip your fin out it tore your ankle off or ripped your fin out and your here saying o gee my leggee got wrapped around my foot once or twice. F - - - me get a grip no wonder we are breeding the softest kids cry babies don't upset the kiddies world in history. Yes they can break and cause a bit of a problem but 99.99% of the time they save our and every bodies arse. I'm truly dumfounded by this.

I concur only 3 issues I have ever had with a legrope was before the days of rail savers were the legrope would destroy a rail,(problem solved) sure you may stand on it occasionally big deal, lift your foot.(problem solved). I once had a 10ft legrope (too long and not floaty enough it was a gift) that got wrapped around a coral head at a paddle out keyhole in indo in large waves resulting in the board and me being sucked out underwater while the legrope was firmly placed around the coral head, resulting in detachment of legrope and a trip across the coral for myself and board separately.
Seriously changing legropes is like reinventing the wheel, it serves its purpose companies are just looking for a way to sell a new and improved version to make money .

Blowin's picture
Blowin's picture
Blowin commented Tuesday, 5 Jan 2016 at 8:53pm

As Caml said - short and thick

Never wrap your leggie around your board - provides kinks and nicks from your fins.

Ocean and Earth make the best leggies going.

Welcome back BB.

penmister's picture
penmister's picture
penmister commented Tuesday, 5 Jan 2016 at 9:01pm

You can get a heavy duty leash in pumping surf and the power and the energy will rip the velcro straight off your ankle...get a comp leash and the leash will snap before the velcro comes off...i think they need to work on the velcro part....

evosurfer's picture
evosurfer's picture
evosurfer commented Wednesday, 6 Jan 2016 at 6:38am

Really all this my biggest issue is I can only get 7m thick rope from all the major brands.
My ideal leggie is 8m by 6ft,7ft and 8ft for different types of solid surf. I also find most people use a to thin a leggie in solid surf then whine when they snap. DER. As for comp
leggies don't even go there, you show me on your gps watch the speed difference.

IF im not surfing im racing

freeride76's picture
freeride76's picture
freeride76 commented Wednesday, 6 Jan 2016 at 7:39am

I bought a brand new O and E leggy , supposedly the strongest one in the world. Took it to G-Land. First wave got caught padding back out and had to bail the board....leggy snapped.
Took it back to the shop and they replaced it FOC.
Next big swell at the Point got caught inside with brand new leggy and the fucking thing snapped again. Board trashed on the rocks.

Maybe a bad batch but I now use the local manufacturer, Surf Aids , out of Byron.
No dramas.

Robin Masters's picture
Robin Masters's picture
Robin Masters commented Wednesday, 13 Jan 2016 at 11:59am

I've been using Surfaids in Byron for years for my leggies (and board covers) never had a problem. And Aussie made!

penmister's picture
penmister's picture
penmister commented Wednesday, 6 Jan 2016 at 8:28am

Ive gone there.they a lighter and you cant even feel them on..only use a gps in my car ..i had problems with ocean and earth too...

blindboy's picture
blindboy's picture
blindboy commented Wednesday, 6 Jan 2016 at 9:08am

I always suspect a nick in the rope if it breaks. It doesn't take much to lose 90% or more of the strength. I wonder what the maximum strain is for 7mm?

blindboy's picture
blindboy's picture
blindboy commented Wednesday, 6 Jan 2016 at 9:12am

.Whoops wrong place

evosurfer's picture
evosurfer's picture
evosurfer commented Wednesday, 6 Jan 2016 at 10:02am

I break a lot more surfboards and seen more boards broken than leg ropes.
So where is the weakest link?

IF im not surfing im racing

caml's picture
caml's picture
caml commented Wednesday, 6 Jan 2016 at 10:47am

I have 8,9 & 10 mil cords , there's drag no doubt . U can go much faster with less legrope dragging . I told yas the rail saver can be removed & not a single commenter has acknowledged it haha . Eg why would a pro need a rail saver its over manufacturing that has fooled everyone . Way less drag - more speed

blindboy's picture
blindboy's picture
blindboy commented Wednesday, 6 Jan 2016 at 10:56am

Good point about the rail saver caml. If the string is the right length the rope itself shouldn't cut into the board......or should it? Can't say it's ever happened to me but then again I have probably been using rail savers for the last 20 years. And I agree about the drag. This came up once before so I got a leg rope, looped it out over a swimming pool and pulled it back with a hand on either end, I didn't put a strain gauge on it but there was definitely a significant amount of drag.

wellymon's picture
wellymon's picture
wellymon commented Wednesday, 6 Jan 2016 at 11:04am

The rail saver is another link in the system ie, That could potentially fail.
I hear what you're saying Caml.
Were they designed so that the force from your 7-8mm dia leggie won't cut through your tail ?

IMO when you rig things with load involved, it is best practice to keep a minimum of links in the system.

Our brains are too small at the moment to comprehend the reality of what's happening in our forests . We're only just waking up so to speak . The big problem is we think we know everything, we are specks of dust on a timeline and we know nothing .

caml's picture
caml's picture
caml commented Wednesday, 6 Jan 2016 at 3:18pm

wellymon wrote: The rail saver is another link in the system ie, That could potentially fail.
I hear what you're saying Caml.
Were they designed so that the force from your 7-8mm dia leggie won't cut through your tail ?

IMO when you rig things with load involved, it is best practice to keep a minimum of links in the system.

Lessening the drag is why it should be done welly nothing to do with the rigging / breaking strain . Suprisingly no cuts during countless hours used

50young's picture
50young's picture
50young commented Wednesday, 6 Jan 2016 at 11:14am

before rail savers there were plenty of leggie cuts through the tail of boards, back in the 80's the rail saver was a piece of seat belt material, at least they are alot narrower now.

caml's picture
caml's picture
caml commented Wednesday, 6 Jan 2016 at 3:14pm

50young wrote: before rail savers there were plenty of leggie cuts through the tail of boards, back in the 80's the rail saver was a piece of seat belt material, at least they are alot narrower now.

Yes

caml's picture
caml's picture
caml commented Wednesday, 6 Jan 2016 at 11:52am

Thanks bb good topic to discuss ! My point is a major improvement that I tested plenty . Results worked fine for me , no cut ever from cord , & pro surfers doesn't matter if they get the odd cut , the fins systems are often damaged so why not the odd cut ? Im not saying to do this in powerful surf , I used boards up to 10ft without rail saver so I could go faster in indo mostly . For small waves its an improvement that is going un noticed

uplift's picture
uplift's picture
uplift commented Wednesday, 6 Jan 2016 at 1:26pm

Well, the science, the physics, and even history highlights a much weaker link. As highlighted by an elite scientist, and athletic trainer:

"Almost every surfer I've ever trained lacks adequate leg strength. They are literally weak in the part of the body that provides some serious propulsion. I think traditionally people have thought strength training meant getting injured or getting heavy, or getting slow, but there's no scientific evidence for any of that. Stronger people get fewer injuries because weak things break. That's just physics.

http://mobile.surfline.com/#!/surf-news/inside-australia-s-surf-training...

A scientific study created a historical image where the pins of the average eeeleeete surfee were compared to the average petite female model's.

Despite the often used disguise (thank God for boardies!!!) it can be easily seen that the eeeleeeete surfees pins are tiny, extremely feeble in comparison to the petite model's.

In fact... truuuuuuwful historical fact... I have seen many instances where legropes have proven much stronger than eeeleeeete surfees pins. Often when an errant gust of wind whipped an offending leggy against the 'pins' of such eeeelllleeeete surfees, they literally snapped like toothpicks. Even striking down a hapless gorilla boy, a pretrained ant, nods, frosty, van vanity... pistol junior... the list is endless really...

In fact one session as I was threading my leggie cord through the leg rope plug, I heard a desperate screeching in the car park, and when I looked up to see what was happening, it was pointed out to me that I had threaded an eeeleeeete surfees pins through the thing!!! As history would have it, I can't remember who it was, possibly van vanity, perhaps jarvis, maybe nods or frosty, or even little camsless, well, they all looked the same to me...

Ta.

Craig's picture
Craig's picture
Craig commented Wednesday, 6 Jan 2016 at 1:32pm

Haha, this is gold.

blindboy's picture
blindboy's picture
blindboy commented Wednesday, 6 Jan 2016 at 3:16pm

Great link uplift, I might have a look next time I am up that way.

uplift's picture
uplift's picture
uplift commented Wednesday, 6 Jan 2016 at 6:52pm

No doubt you'll find it interesting blinder, maybe mutually beneficial for you both, and surfers also, regarding your journalistic talents.

uplift's picture
uplift's picture
uplift commented Wednesday, 6 Jan 2016 at 6:56pm

In regard to weakest links, you might glean some usefull info here too. I personally don't agree with some stuff she writes, but she often highlights usefull info.

http://www.agelessforever.net/anti-aging-news-blog/muscles-not-just-for-...

blindboy's picture
blindboy's picture
blindboy commented Wednesday, 6 Jan 2016 at 8:54pm

Thanks again uplift I am off on a surf trip from Sunday but will be back in training as soon as I get back....got slack over Xmas!

the-u-turn's picture
the-u-turn's picture
the-u-turn commented Wednesday, 6 Jan 2016 at 1:40pm

Good to see your prose back on SWN BlindBoy. Shining the Dolphin torch on an important matter.

The U Turn
...a little Aloha goes a long way.

sandy's picture
sandy's picture
sandy commented Wednesday, 6 Jan 2016 at 1:59pm

I like to use a figure 8 on the cord, sits nice, never comes undone, and doesn't jam. If you tie it right it can be quite nice and snug even with thicker cord

caml's picture
caml's picture
caml commented Wednesday, 6 Jan 2016 at 3:11pm

A leg rope could detach a leg

evosurfer's picture
evosurfer's picture
evosurfer commented Wednesday, 6 Jan 2016 at 6:18pm

Only time I have noticed or felt drag was when I used a 20ft leggie at Waimea
it would grab let go grab again and flick free again was a little off putting and
there was drag besides that time never noticed any drag so I say long live
the leggie because without it I would be dead.

IF im not surfing im racing

caml's picture
caml's picture
caml commented Thursday, 7 Jan 2016 at 10:48am

Of course nobody on these threads have noticed leggie drag , plastic fins , wax on the bottom of the board , fin in backwards , vaseline on the wax , paint as suncream , doesn't surprise me !

blindboy's picture
blindboy's picture
blindboy commented Thursday, 7 Jan 2016 at 11:11am

I can beat that caml, I surfed a whole session on the quad with the quad fins on the wrong side, flats to the rail and didn't notice anything different! It wasn't exactly perfect conditions, quite a bit of chop on the face etc......well that's my excuse and I'm sticking with it!

chook's picture
chook's picture
chook commented Thursday, 7 Jan 2016 at 3:46pm

i have a cunning plan...

caml's picture
caml's picture
caml commented Friday, 8 Jan 2016 at 8:22am

Haha .yep bb

evosurfer's picture
evosurfer's picture
evosurfer commented Friday, 8 Jan 2016 at 10:37am

what a great idea I'm sure some on here would go for it judging by some of there comments.

IF im not surfing im racing

Stink Bompton's picture
Stink Bompton's picture
Stink Bompton commented Friday, 8 Jan 2016 at 2:58pm

http://www.surfline.com/gear/gear-review-xm-tangle-free-leash-checking-o...

Mate has one of the sliders. Swears by it. Never has a tangle.
Personally i'm still skeptical, as the only tangle i really get is from seaweed on dumpy beach breaks, and mates ripping off you leash, grabbing you leash to stop you duck diving or catching waves to stir shit when the waves are off.

caml's picture
caml's picture
caml commented Friday, 8 Jan 2016 at 3:34pm

If u went in a paddle race & you wore a leg rope with rail saver & wax coating it all , you will find u have to paddle harder than the ppl who aren't wearing one

chook's picture
chook's picture
chook commented Friday, 8 Jan 2016 at 3:56pm

dammit! stupid drag inducing, tangling legrope put some decent cracks in my board's tail ... i double glassed it with 6oz last time.

sharkman's picture
sharkman's picture
sharkman commented Friday, 8 Jan 2016 at 4:11pm

try XM legropes , tangle free , used them for 3 year up to 15' , never broken one and never get 's tangled
http://zaksurfboards.com/tag/xm-legropes/

x

udo's picture
udo's picture
udo commented Friday, 8 Jan 2016 at 4:18pm

Where have I been,why have I never heard of these ?

zenagain's picture
zenagain's picture
zenagain commented Friday, 8 Jan 2016 at 4:22pm

How does the 'slider' work? Thay look good.

Watashi wa metabo oyagi desu.

rule303's picture
rule303's picture
rule303 commented Friday, 8 Jan 2016 at 7:36pm

only 3 issues I have ever had with a legrope was before the days of rail savers were the legrope would destroy a rail,(problem solved) sure you may stand on it occasionally big deal, lift your foot.(problem solved). I once had a 10ft legrope (too long and not floaty enough it was a gift) that got wrapped around a coral head at a paddle out keyhole in indo in large waves resulting in the board and me being sucked out underwater while the legrope was firmly placed around the coral head, resulting in detachment of legrope and a trip across the coral for myself and board separately. (Problem solved dont use crappy 10ft leashes on coral reefs)
Seriously changing legropes is like reinventing the wheel, it serves its purpose companies are just looking for a way to sell a new and improved version to make money .
As for the coiled legropes that were popular for goatboats in the 80's and there spring coil return forget it.
If your legrope destroys your gorrilla grip take it off use wax (problem solved)

caml's picture
caml's picture
caml commented Friday, 8 Jan 2016 at 7:55pm

Coiled leggy aint gunna work forget it

caml's picture
caml's picture
caml commented Friday, 8 Jan 2016 at 8:15pm

Amateurs need rail savers . Pros dont need them in smaller surf - Over manufacturing

happyasS's picture
happyasS's picture
happyasS commented Friday, 8 Jan 2016 at 8:16pm

a rail saver affecting paddling performance???? get in a pool and measure the difference over 50m. it'll be 2/5ths of fuck all....and even less so in surf conditions.

rule303's picture
rule303's picture
rule303 commented Friday, 8 Jan 2016 at 8:29pm

Just had look at the slider why not drill a hole in a couple of beer bottle lids if you feel the need for this product at least you can play the lagerphone for entertainment for everyone in the lineup
"This can range from the mild annoyance of getting tangled up, standing on the leash, or a missed wave to a pretty darn painful leash between-the-toes experience. All of which gets exponentially worse in large surf. "
Seriously. That painful leash between the toes experience WTF.
My 7yr old today " dad I hate legropes ." Why son ." It hurts my toes "

rule303's picture
rule303's picture
rule303 commented Friday, 8 Jan 2016 at 8:38pm

Got caught up in all the bullshit on the forum back to important stuff
FACT : still using a 20 yr old ocean and earth 8ft legrope is that a record or can some beat it.,

caml's picture
caml's picture
caml commented Sunday, 10 Jan 2016 at 10:26pm

rule303 wrote: Got caught up in all the bullshit on the forum back to important stuff
FACT : still using a 20 yr old ocean and earth 8ft legrope is that a record or can some beat it.,

Yeah no rule thats unbeatable ! Hope you didn't jinx it !

mikehunt207's picture
mikehunt207's picture
mikehunt207 commented Saturday, 9 Jan 2016 at 7:01pm

I have a bag of leggies that are perfectly fine with the exception of worn out string that connects rail saver to the swivel. In the past I have even taken said rail savers to Bali to get restrung by boardcover maker over there. No way to buy said peice in Aus. Easily got 100 mtrs of black Da Kine cords rolled up in a bag. That is the weakest link in my opinion.

asharper001's picture
asharper001's picture
asharper001 commented Sunday, 10 Jan 2016 at 1:45pm

Had plenty of legropes over the years, and maybe just lucky but never had a failure of any kind....... until this morning. Surfed a northern NSW beachie, 4ft maybe 5 on the infrequent bigger sets. First wave, finished off in the shorey and just ducked back through the whitewater and felt the little twang and knew straight away. Thought it was going to be the string as noticed when putting the leggie on this morning was looking just a little worn (not too bad though). Was surprised that it gave away at the ankle strap before the swivel. Luckily had a backup board and legrope in the car so swapped legrope over (keeping the same string).

I have to admit, I never provided any maintenance (straightening the rope, washing/rinsing swivels, checking for nicks) on any legrope. If it started to look a bit ratty, that's when I would change over and get a new one. Most last a few years.

Just to add, I've never had any damage to any board from anything relating to legropes.

caml's picture
caml's picture
caml commented Sunday, 10 Jan 2016 at 10:22pm

Yeah

roubydouby's picture
roubydouby's picture
roubydouby commented Tuesday, 12 Jan 2016 at 9:56pm

http://ogd.me/the-wedge/

Saw this today. Get rid of rail savers all together and be done with tombstones.... 'parently.

Results may vary.

caml's picture
caml's picture
caml commented Tuesday, 12 Jan 2016 at 10:43pm

Thats right roubyd good find . There was one of those type things in the board gerry lopez gave me in g.land 1998 & I used it without a railsaver the whole time and felt that lack of drag & never damaged the tail either . First time seen that plug ever & from then on I always eliminated railsaver on any board if it was a fast wave . That enabled me to make waves with less drag , it was probably that brand of plug

roubydouby's picture
roubydouby's picture
roubydouby commented Sunday, 17 Jan 2016 at 5:16pm

Can you remember how it went regarding the tombstoning? The claims are that cause you're pulling from the very end of the tail, the board doesn't anchor against the water. That'd be a pretty handy feature if it worked... think of the amount of times you can't get your board back quickly enough and you have to cop a couple on the head.

Results may vary.

Jonathan Halloran's picture
Jonathan Halloran's picture
Jonathan Halloran commented Sunday, 17 Jan 2016 at 6:43pm

Wots wiv orl this leggie bashing? Didn't a leggie save Mick last year? Haha

But seriously, the only problem with leggies, I find, is that the board ends topside under (yeah I went there) 50% of the time :'(
Otherwise its a bit of a non issue. A real "first world problem" like HappyasS said. Still, I'm fascinated by the medium's role in innovation here. Good stuff!

udo's picture
udo's picture
udo commented Friday, 2 Sep 2016 at 9:08pm

Silvercord surf leash.

udo's picture
udo's picture
udo commented Sunday, 11 Sep 2016 at 12:25pm

Smart Leash Co - all legrope parts sold separately, replacement urethane e.t.c
and are Interchangeable with major brands.

crustt's picture
crustt's picture
crustt commented Sunday, 11 Sep 2016 at 12:53pm

Big wave leash 8ft, bit short IMO. :-)

udo's picture
udo's picture
udo commented Wednesday, 10 May 2017 at 9:50am

Anyone tried the legropes from ISC - Independant Surf co ?
$30 for a 6ft shorty free shipping in aust.

udo's picture
udo's picture
udo commented Monday, 19 Mar 2018 at 2:52pm

FCS-
New 'Freedom' legropes $60

udo's picture
udo's picture
udo commented Monday, 19 Mar 2018 at 3:15pm

FCS-
New 'Freedom' legropes braided cover over a standard looking urethane core...and a dodgy looking attachment at the railsaver -$60
Needs Essentials standard 6ft - $25

Clam's picture
Clam's picture
Clam commented Monday, 19 Mar 2018 at 3:20pm

Cheap leggy = extra swimming

udo's picture
udo's picture
udo commented Monday, 19 Mar 2018 at 3:46pm

About4yrs so far from a Swellnet legrope.
Only wish Benjamin would sell me another iknow you have a box full at the back of the office !

udo's picture
udo's picture
udo commented Thursday, 6 Dec 2018 at 11:14am

Surf resQ - A new legrope repair device...a plastic bulb that instantly joins your broken leggie together..can be stored in your anklestrap .