Watch: Comparing Griff and Italo's Final Waves
There was much outrage and speculation when watching the Surf Ranch Final this morning. Swellnet's comment board lit up, as did YouTube's own comment thread, and the traffic was all flowing one direction.
At issue was the scoring, particularly the surfer's first righthander and their first lefthander.
Griffin fell on his first right, so that wave also fell out of the equation, however it's useful in assessing parts of Italo's ride. For one, Italo spends a long time in the barrel, perhaps five seconds longer than Griff, and it's something the commentators remark upon too.
A question: Do long barrels get rewarded the way they do in the ocean?
They used to at the pool. Remember the tube clock? But is that still the case, because if it is then, considering everything else he did on the wave, it seemed a low score.
Griff gets a 7.83, Italo 8.43 - a difference of 0.60.
The first left is where the real injustice occurred. Both surfers scored 8.70. Both surfers spent the same amount of time in the tube and both exited cleanly. Both surfers ended with a flat spin air rev (Italo's slightly higher).
The differences?
Griff did twelve off the top hits, which, if it were points per maneuver, would've beaten Italo's eleven moves.
However, pro surfing hasn't used that criteria since the 70s, and in fact they now reward "variety of maneuvers" - quote marks used because it's taken straight from the Wozzle's rule book. All twelve of Griff's maneuvers were either the exact same - at one point he did four identical turns - or variations on the theme. Twelve metronomic turns.
In contrast, Italo came off the bottom in a wide range of angles: vertical hits, lateral power carves, short rail snaps, and even one fin ditch that saw him riding backwards. An unpredicatble combination of major maneuvers that deserved a significant reward over his competitor.
As mentioned, both surfers get 8.70, yet it felt like Italo should've been 1.50 points ahead, thereby changing the mindset of each surfer going into their final waves.
Now, the second right. Griff finishes a good wave for 9.07. Italo also finishes a good wave - again with a longer barrel - for 8.43.
The difference is 0.64 in Griff's favour. Consider that difference is larger than the first right when Griff fell.
While watching live it felt certain Italo would get, if not a better score than Griff, then at least close to it.
When it came through the score was a shock to watchers and presumably to Italo too who had seconds to recompose, then unsurprisingly fell halfway through his last wave.
Comments
Sorry Fucks given .............zero .
So boring to watch .
Yeah - It is really boring to watch, but looking at the clips Italio was hard done by.
Think the Home crowd cheers may have gotten Griff over the line.
May as well be judging a “world’s best song competition” or “most beautiful woman”. Surfing “connests” are dumb.
connests lol
Can you put griffs right hand 9.07 up against Italo’s second righthander?
I think that is more relevant to the final score and was more starkly incorrect in Griff’s favour aside from the lefts.
Coming....
Done. See above.
Thanks!
:)
WSL need a bad boy, so keep under scoring Italo cause they know he will snap....a board or two.
To me Italo clearly did the better surfing.
Maybe WSL is just trying to manufacture drama or home town hero for the US hooray final. If this is the WSL rationale, it is not professional, it is a commercial decision.
Maybe there are more affluent people in the US to buy products compared with Latin America?
Most of the WSL pros can rip on good waves into any of the finals.
Physical and metal fitness & .....often luck of the waves seem to decide some WSL comp outcomes.
Now it seems judges & WSL staff may need drug testing before a professional surf comp... or be relegated to work at some sloppy backwash onshore surf comp...
Italo just shredded these KSW pool waves so precisely .... he was like an Olympic acrobat perfectly timed or... a master chef slicing and dicing...
Italo deserved at least a 9 or a 10 ... based on the longest deepest barrels, variety of turns & WSL judging criteria
Just compare with how they scored the WSL champs at KSWP in 2018
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2023-05-22/cartel-cocaine-import-australia-b...
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2023-05-22/cocaine-dealers-reveal-inner-work...
Brazil's consumption expenditure (spending$) has been going down
https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/NE.CON.TOTL.CD?locations=BR
US consumption expenditure (spending $) is going up
https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/NE.CON.TOTL.CD?locations=US
Griff, sorry mate Italo smoked you ......wsl hang your heads in shame..
Griff's little straight air at the end of his scoring right-hander was just a lame bunny hop. Think the judges got smoke screened by it, because it was something they hadn't seen. Italos flat spin wasn't crazy either, but definitely more dynamic.
Yup. Even a big name like Gabs has openly criticised the WSL. Will they respond?
Its all well and good for Medina to call out the judges hating on Brazil, however it becomes more interesting when you dig down into the individual judges scoring (and nationality). The Ranch had 5 judges - one each from USA, Australia and Basque Country and two from Brazil.
Comparing the scoring wave totals of Griff vs Italo per judges card.
Brazil A - 18.10 vs 17.50
Basque - 17.80 vs 17.50
Brazil B - 17.80 vs 16.90
USA - 17.20 vs 16.80
Oz - 17.00 vs 17.10
Only the Australian judge had Italo winning, barely, and the Brazilian judges had the highest differential in favour of Griffin...
Excellent intel Stinky and will be completely lost on the sooks. Where do you see this?
You can hover over the scores on the detailed heat results and see what each judge wrote down.
Ok. So this is making news everywhere but we will get any clarity or transparency from the WSL?
Nah.
How are they so deaf to the noise?
Perhaps they have (as the fans have wished for) secretly started deducting points for silly claims?
They'll have to respond and justify. Not sure how though or fess up that they cooked it.
Hey Richie Porter what are your thoughts.....?
The most important variable you haven't taken into account is their stance - we should be comparing like for like; forehand and backhand waves. Invariably, surfing on your backhand is more difficult and there is less variety of turns. As the left and right at Kelly's pond are far from identical, one can only compare turns not barrels.
Griff's backhand left (8.70) and Italo's first right (8.13) had a similarly repetitive repertoire and should have been comparable scores. Notwithstanding Italo's super-long barrel that's not available on the left, I can't see where Griff earned 0.57 points higher.
Italo's second wave also had the same turns, but throw in the mid-wave reverse and dramatic entries into each barrel and you can't honestly say that it should have scored 0.27 less than Griff's.
The counting forehand waves (9.07 vs 8.70) once again had far more variety from Italo - an additional full rail carve and the well-controlled loooong fin drift - yet came in 0.37 under.
Griff may not of surfed it as well but i think he looks a lot smoother and nicer to watch where as Italo looks very forced. Maybe judges getting sick of Brazzo styles, I know I am. Maybe judges starting to look for more stylish surfing. Either way it’s a stupid event maybe more interesting if pool wave was 2-3 times the size
I just watched that comparison and italos claim was way better than griffs.
Case closed.
100% EYV - reckon when the contests are super tight and can't be split, gotta go to the 'claim vision' for each ...(which the Brazo's have em all covered there) ... John John needs to work on his but - the arms low tug on the sleeve just wont cut it if he wants to get through.
eat-your-vegies, I agree. That claim by Griff was just lame, what were the judges thinking? I think the Woz are going to need to go back and re examine the claim criteria.
The correct answer to any questions regarding this comp is: who gives a shit.
You need to look at Italo's second right - same turn over and over bar one in the middle and his last turn. Its exactly what you are bagging Griffs first left - if you watch griffs first left he has a lot more variety than Italos second right, which was -
- First 4 turns all the same
- the first barrel, although long was not deep - he almost wastes time in the 2nd half of the barrel
- Next 4 turns the same as his fist turns - so far the wave is average
- Next turn a Horizontal reverse, the first explosive turn.
- Next turn before the second barrel was a bit average, kind of gets a bit caught.
- Average not deep 2nd barrel and then the last turn although explosive was forced and he kind of gets caught mid turn,
Italo's problem was spending to much time in the first barrel on both rights - he wasted sections, that and bar a couple of turns he was too repetitive.
Simple
Italo would have been better off pulling his pants down and flopping his doodle out on live tv on his last wave as a protest than trying to get a clearly unattainable, predetermined win.
@southernraw - Best comment ever! Gold
Griff told them he was going to take another dump on primetime TV if they didn’t cook his scores- https://www.theinertia.com/surf/griffin-colapinto-aqua-dumped-2-minutes-...
The whole thing is a farce.
Those wave comparison vids aren't great, using different angles and not being entirely synched.
What the vids don't show is Italo surfing better than Griff.
From watching those vids, the clear difference is the surfing between the 2 barrels on the 2nd rights. Can't believe the controversy.
All I know is, I wouldn't want to be sitting in the judge's seat, carefully splitting hairs at a wavepool.
Totally not a bible person, but a verse does spring to mind:
Judge not, lest ye be judged.
For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.
Can we honestly say anyone has ‘variety’ on their backhand?
They are all trying wack the most crisp, critical backhand snap that they can - the only variety is the degree in which they time it or not. Other minor bit of variety is the backhand carve owing to a fatter section.
That’s it, backhand surfing. Has it really
progressed since Occ is in the 90’s?
Totally agree.....maybe since Wayne Lynch on that yellow board in a 'Day in the Life'
Maybe Griff had better wave selection?
Haha Gold!
Ha ha
Especially at night when the tide went out
Interesting comments regarding forehand, backhand.
Poor, biased, corrupt judging. Returning to Trestles for the finals, Griffs home break that no one wants to watch. Clearly this year is scripted. Griff at the top of the table and sitting well placed for a finals appearance at his home break.
Italo surfed light years ahead of Griff in the final. The speed and power were polar opposites!? I am yet to see a single comment to argue Griff's case. Absolute wrought judging and the WSL needs to make statement. The only truth here is the WSL is forcefully trying to create drama in the sport.
Italo points out couple of groupies he's going bang after one of those rides, -
the Wozzle are prudie I tell ya..
I didn't think the scoring was that far out. At Bells he got robbed. A bit of prudie parochialism par for the course. Griffs the new man-child.
Thanks for putting this together Stu, It does help checking it all out side by side. There is indeed some discrepancies from both sides there hey, the Wozzle once again gets caught in the hype of whoever they are feeling at the moment. I watched the Make Or Break show thing and It fully shows the head judge walking up and down the room kind of filling the judges' heads with some pre-scoring opinions. Maybe that's how it has always been, I don't know, but I thought the judges would be in their booths with headphones on completely zoned out focused on the comp. Cheers guys.
I never understood how the judges need so long to put a score in, nor how they have to have a head judge guiding them to the score.
See wave, score wave.
Most of us can see a wave and without a replay have a fairly accurate idea of what the score would be.
Replay should only be if 2 surfers are riding at same time and should only be viewed once in realtime at that..
Go with your gut.
Shouldn't be hard to interpret good surfing as it happens.
It's almost like they're having to build a script of storyline around each score in the context of the heat, contest, year, who upset them at the last contest.....
Honestly, most of the crew on the live chats here seem to guess the scores before they drop after just watching the wave live so why the long delays for the paid pro's?
Thoughts on EE VS GM ?
WSL 1 SN outraged viewers 0.
if they ain't talking about you, they ain't talking about you.
The way the brazos carry on someone hand out the violins en mass
From stinky wes above...
Comparing the scoring wave totals of Griff vs Italo per judges card.
Brazil A - 18.10 vs 17.50
Basque - 17.80 vs 17.50
Brazil B - 17.80 vs 16.90
USA - 17.20 vs 16.80
Oz - 17.00 vs 17.10
Never expected that from 2 Brazzo judges... would be great to know what an independent observer thought who was at the pool. Maybe Griff looked faster in real life.
Let's put a live mic on the head judge like other sports. That would be very interesting
If you want to know where the differences are, it's the turns leading into the tube on the lefts (from 0.28 seconds in the vid), and all the turns between the 2 barrels on the rights.
I can't believe that people think that this was a clear win to Italo.
Judges certainly make mistakes, but they appear to have gotten it right this time.
Well that's just your opinion though isn't it?
And the judges'...
Yep. You'd make a good WSL judge!
They can't see the difference either.
I (and they) can see the difference. It's you that can't.
And 99 percent of the surfing population, but it's you that seems to understand good surfing better than everyone else as you keep pointing out.
On the left, Griff does four utterly identical turns, while on the right there's very little difference either. The first two or three are the same, then some extension. But for comparison, none are the full rail face carve that Italo did on the left, nor the finner which Italo also did.
Crisp surfing for sure, but cookie cutter stuff.
They are not 'utterly identical'. There is variation in the timing and positioning of the lip, and the degree of rotation through the turn, and they are all linked.
Compare to the 4 turns Italo does leading into the barrel, the finner where he has to grab his rail and is caught in reverse, a crappy fat reo, a very meh tail carve, and then a good snap. Variety is only part of the criteria. You still have to do good turns/manoevers.
Italo got some better turns on the outside, and his barrel was better, which is why they got the same score.
Maybe diving is a model worth looking at???
Execution: The dive itself. Form: A judge watches for proper mechanical performance, technique, form, and grace.
Entry: The entry into the water is significant because it’s the last thing the judge sees. Judges favour a graceful, vertical entry along with a minimal amount of splash.