Flyer: Never Met A Lineup I Didn't Like

Stu Nettle
Flyer

A little riff on lineups…

By ‘lineup’ I don’t mean the sight of breaking waves as they feel the ocean floor, but the lineup of surfers, the pecking order, the crowd of people who surf a particular wave, many of them regulars, and how they arrange themselves into a hierarchy.

The surfing lineup is a social construct. We build it and continually reshape it.

Though we take it for granted, the lineup is a marvel of the modern world. The rules that govern it have evolved organically, they apply nowhere else in society, and lineups are self-regulating, there’s no need for outside intervention, so if a surfer transgresses the rules, deliberately or otherwise, they’re quickly set straight by other surfers and order prevails.

Surfers occasionally get a bad rap from mainstream society but the lineup is a model of co-operation. It’s an example of how people with conflicting values - be they politics, religion, or the thousand other things humans argue over - can get along when a system serves them.

Yeah, there’s loopholes and gray areas and wriggle room, and they’re willingly taken advantage of, but for the most part lineups work.

This week the Lennox Head surf community was split when the World Surf League proposed to run a surf contest there this coming Easter.

Personally, I’m neither here nor there on the matter, it’s not my place to say. However, many Lennox locals did voice their concerns, both for and against the proposal, and the community was pitted against itself.

Of the events last week, that was the most disheartening sight.

Like African colonists, the WSL favoured one tribe over another setting up a cycle of disharmony, and though it wasn’t the Wozzle’s intention, they lobbed a big friggen spanner in the Lennox lineup. Group differences were brought to the fore.

The issue was settled amicably and hopefully there’s no lingering resentment from either side. It was a reminder that we’ve all got different opinions and values, and even the beliefs you’d think all surfers would share - such as how a local wave should be utilised - can split us into different camps. Make potential enemies of us.

But if the surfers of Lennox can again paddle out to the point and order prevails, then the lineup has done its job.

- Stu

Proposed Lennox Head contest dumped by Council

A last-minute proposal by the usually slick WSL was leaked to the public which allowed local opposition to get a toehold. In a bizarre meeting, Ballina Shire Council gave short shrift to the Woz. Read More >

Breaking: WSL Rejects Toonalook Invitation To Host ‘CT Comp

After being turned away at Lennox, the WSL received a surprise proposal by Toonalook Shire Council to host a CT event at Toona Point. Even more surprising was that the Wozzle rejected it. Read More >

Trade vs cyclone swell, a real time example

Never mind the textbooks, people, this is happening in real time, right now. Cyclone swells may get all the glory, but its trade swells we should be looking out for. Why? Allow Craig to explain...  Read More >

A Different High – Tom Carroll and Meditation

Quiet reflection and perpetual frothing make for strange bedfellows. Read how Tom Carroll brings the two world's together. Read More >

Unearthed Toonalook Diaries Rewrite Australian Surfing History

The contents of a musty old suitcase discovered under Barry Cornell's floorboards shed new light on Australia's surfing history. Prepare to be shocked. Read More >

Watch: Dane Reynolds // Not Today

No talking, no lifestyle, just eight solid minutes of Dane on the tools at his local and it's well worth your time. Read More >

Comments

freeride76's picture
freeride76's picture
freeride76 commented Monday, 8 Feb 2021 at 12:42pm

"Of the events last week, that was the most disheartening sight.

Like African colonists, the WSL favoured one tribe over another setting up a cycle of disharmony, and though it wasn’t the Wozzle’s intention, they lobbed a big friggen spanner in the Lennox lineup. Group differences were brought to the fore."

It's hard to take at face value and in good faith any assertion that the WSL had no intention or didn't realise the extent of community opposition to the proposed comp, considering there was a precedent with the Rip Curl Search Proposal in 2008.

At that time Starkey was a surf administrator, CEO of Surfing QLD. He would have been very well aware of a huge swell of backlash to the event.

Neither innocence or ignorance are plausibly deniable answers to the Woz approach.

Which makes it even more unsavoury the way it was attempted to be decided behind closed doors, with even token community consultation clouded in deceit.

Anyhow from many perspectives here, the result: a community banding together was heartening, not disheartening.

And people accept there are differing opinions to their own.

BBrowny's picture
BBrowny's picture
BBrowny commented Monday, 8 Feb 2021 at 2:00pm

What's the feeling been like in the lineup since the announcement? Have you shared it with surfers who were for the competition?

freeride76's picture
freeride76's picture
freeride76 commented Monday, 8 Feb 2021 at 2:49pm

it's been good, and yes.
everyones been getting waves.

Craig's picture
Craig's picture
Craig commented Monday, 8 Feb 2021 at 2:54pm

By the end of the week nearly everyone I spoke to was surfed out and more than content. I checked the Ox on the low Saturday and drove away from silky clean, shifty 4-6ft sets. A little busy and would be all over it if not content myself. Instead turned the car south home.

milesp's picture
milesp's picture
milesp commented Monday, 8 Feb 2021 at 4:13pm

Timely read, as the 'social construct’ appeared to be a little broken at the my local yesterday. Admittedly, it was a sunny Sunday and pumping. But over 40 in the water on the peak and all hungry for waves after a week of wind. Some ugly behaviour and defiantly not the normal vide experienced by many mid-week regulars.

spiggy topes's picture
spiggy topes's picture
spiggy topes commented Monday, 8 Feb 2021 at 4:39pm

Stu appropo your likeable line-ups...

Thursday last was a big day for me and Lennox played its part. I saw my eldest son for the first time in 14 months and on the way back from the Ballina fishmongers I checked Lennox for old times' sake.

It was soft NE corduroy all the way but not huge and very likeable. I remembered my first go out there in '73 when it was a brisk 6-8ft and I thought I could do a Greenough and take it on with a mat (remember Surf-O-Planes?). After a 2 hour flogging which much amused my mate I felt strangely euphoric and satisfied. There were six of us out.

However what I really loved about Thursday was watching and listening to the 12 year-olds hooting, screaming, laughing and whingeing when they fell off. They were at least half of the lineup and brought joyous relief. It felt really good, just like my local after the winter school buses empty out. 

I returned on Saturday to watch my son surf after my deeply unsatisfying battle with Brunz. My lad is skilful and strong and tore into the 6ft sets from the now way bigger but slightly confused swell. But the only sounds I heard from the lineup were from two ignoramuses yelling for the sake of it, sounding like Cronulla rioters trying to drive out the visitors   My son wasn't bothered but lamented the disturbance of an otherwise lovely but busy session. For me, the magic had left without closing the door.

I loved surfing there, Burleigh and Greenie too, but the rewards are a memory now. It's not the crowds but the insufferable ignorance that drives me away. Everywhere is crowded, accept and adapt. Share the joy, not the aggro. A contest won't kill Lennox, though it's cut up pretty bad as it is.People who happen to live somewhere and claim entitlement are stricken by anger, greed and envy brought on by ignorance. The only ones who can legitimately claim some location ownership are blackfellas and in my experience, they are very happy to share - a great deal. Lennox won't be inundated, getting out and in without seeing your best stick munted is challenge enough. The greater challenge is to accept and share. I've never surfed a top break that was exhausted before I was.

bluediamond's picture
bluediamond's picture
bluediamond commented Monday, 8 Feb 2021 at 5:36pm

Hear Hear Spiggy. Great writing, great reading.

Spuddups's picture
Spuddups's picture
Spuddups commented Monday, 8 Feb 2021 at 6:54pm

Not everywhere good is crowded aye.

surfstarved's picture
surfstarved's picture
surfstarved commented Tuesday, 9 Feb 2021 at 9:29am

My first time out at the Point was in (or around) 1990 - school surfing on a Wednesday afternoon. I had a middling session then managed to pick up a dozen or so sea urchin spines in my feet on the way back in. I had many memorable moments out there after that, but it was an inauspicious start. I thought the crowds were bad back then and I can only imagine what they're like these days.

Don't let the bastards grind you down

clif's picture
clif's picture
clif commented Tuesday, 9 Feb 2021 at 12:43am

"for the most part lineups work" for a chosen few and as long as you follow "our" rules. obey and "we" may permit you a wave.

"Don't try. That's very important: not to try." Charles Bukowski

stunet's picture
stunet's picture
stunet commented Tuesday, 9 Feb 2021 at 7:38am

"Furthest inside has right of way."

"The surfer up and riding has the right of way."

"Paddlers should avoid the breaking waves when paddling back out."

Near enough universal rules and I'm yet to see a better system. Got any suggestions?

surfstarved's picture
surfstarved's picture
surfstarved commented Tuesday, 9 Feb 2021 at 9:30am

"don't be a c#nt"

Don't let the bastards grind you down

Pops's picture
Pops's picture
Pops commented Tuesday, 9 Feb 2021 at 9:57am

add:
"Don't snake"
"Fella waiting longest has right of way"? (more relevant at a shorter wave than at a point break if he's way down the line...)

He who hesitates is lost

clif's picture
clif's picture
clif commented Tuesday, 9 Feb 2021 at 8:07pm

None of those operate in a social/cultural vacuum.

"Don't try. That's very important: not to try." Charles Bukowski

freeride76's picture
freeride76's picture
freeride76 commented Tuesday, 9 Feb 2021 at 8:32pm

Could you expand on those last 2 comments Clif?

they are a bit cryptic for me to understand what you are getting at.

clif's picture
clif's picture
clif commented Tuesday, 9 Feb 2021 at 9:04pm

Well, I have always found that people's access to, practice of, and knowledge of those codes is influenced by social, cultural, and economic factors and that influences how the codes will play out in any given lineup during any given session. I agree, those codes can equate to an equitable sharing of a limited resource but so could many codes of life if we understand them as only objective and outside of the influence of those factors. People make judgement and interpret lineups and those codes based on these factors during a session and colour them with amendments/annotations much more often than not - see the many commentary threads about lineup etiquette on swellnet coloured with racism, nationalism, sexism, classism, and more. They rarely play out in any pure sense. Another example (and just throwing this out there for thought) comes from the question: who do those codes most benefit? An experienced surfer who has had the privilege of access to waves on a regular basis unaffected by socio-cultural-economic- bodily (e.g. disability) hurdles others have had to overcome to surf. Those who have come to dominate most lineups have a much bigger 'bank' of waves and fun and skill level. One could argue that an equitable code of sharing of resources should see those surfers surrender more waves to the others so that they can bank the waves of fun and skill the dominant surfer already has under their belt due to privileges. This makes me think that those codes equating to an equality of sharing is not necessarily an objective good. So, how are the codes "Furthest inside has right of way."; "The surfer up and riding has the right of way." influenced by the factors above? Do they work for everyone? For example, a surfer may not be able to go deep/inside due to the baggage of those factors?

"Don't try. That's very important: not to try." Charles Bukowski

Blowin's picture
Blowin's picture
Blowin commented Wednesday, 10 Feb 2021 at 7:47am

meritocracy
/ˌmɛrɪˈtɒkrəsi/
Learn to pronounce
noun
noun: meritocracy
government or the holding of power by people selected according to merit.
"progress towards meritocracy was slow"
a society governed by people selected according to merit.
plural noun: meritocracies
"Britain is a meritocracy, and everyone with skill and imagination may aspire to reach the highest level"
a ruling or influential class of educated or able people.
"the relentless advance of the meritocracy"

Solitude's picture
Solitude's picture
Solitude commented Tuesday, 9 Feb 2021 at 6:57am

Lineups are fascinating and I think it takes a deal of emotional intelligence to read them well, particularly those of which you are new.

My local lineups are interesting and varied and it depends on the conditions. For the most part the line up is very mellow.

On certain days there are quite a few women and up and coming girls that really make for a much more mellow and fun surf. Some days it’s the old boys and others it’s young rippers from the local boardriders.

Where I live the spots are all very sand dependent which acts as a kind of refresh/reset of a lineup when conditions change. All depends on where the bank is or where people choose to surf.

Change is the constant, it never gets boring.

spacebucket's picture
spacebucket's picture
spacebucket commented Tuesday, 9 Feb 2021 at 10:02pm

Re: Interesting lineups and crowds. Lucas weekend we shared macking waves and lineups of either 80% bodysurfers or just 2 or 3 with no other soul in sight. It was truly all time for us and fairly uncommon.
Thurs and Fri prior at a popular nsw spot that should be a shitshow.. Great vibes, decent number of board riders & plenty of waves for all.
When it grew and strong water movement there were big rides a bodysurfer lives for there to take.
Great to have avoided any runaways from the circus, good times ARE there. Even here.

tango's picture
tango's picture
tango commented Tuesday, 9 Feb 2021 at 8:14am

The lineups down here have wild variation depending on the season. It's a busy place most of the time, unfortunately, and low numbers in the water are rare, especially when there's been hype around a swell. Most places have their regulars with their regular time-slots and the rotation works pretty well if it's not too busy. Sure there are a few pricks in the water who will burn people or snake, and there's always a couple who froth a bit and catch a few extras, but there's generally a fair bit of order.

The extra flies in the ointment for a smooth lineup come from two main quarters: the VALs and the 20-35yo blokes who can paddle well but are still in the very early intermediate journey. Few of these crew seem to have spent any serious time investing in understanding the progression and have little hesitation in paddling out at crowded and/or name breaks and proceeding to throw a spanner in the works by ignoring almost every morsel of surf etiquette, sometimes simultaneously. How you educate these people on how a lineup should function is beyond me, as there are just far too many of them now. It makes several places pretty dangerous and others a compete shitshow where the good spots have at least three muppets on every wave.

BTW Stu, I can't agree with the "up and riding has right of way". If this were the case, the loggers, mals and SUPs would be entitled to everything, which I note is often how some of them behave (Declaration: I ride them all too).

And Sol, without wanting to sound sexist, and trying hard not to be, I'm not sure the vibe is all that improved with women in the water. Perhaps there are different views on this, but I think a while back it may have been the case. My experience over the past couple of years is that there are lots more women venturing into the water now, especially on logs/longboards, and few of them are spreading good vibes when a set wave comes through - it's more often than not just the same old hassle. My wife has surfed around here for over 20 years and she agrees wholeheartedly.

Blowin's picture
Blowin's picture
Blowin commented Tuesday, 9 Feb 2021 at 8:25am

I surfed around a few chicks on longboards recently and some of them were right carnts. Dropping in is disrespectful wave theft regardless of what’s between your legs . I watched one chick drop in every single wave she caught after paddling her log straight past 90 percent of the lineup. She would have paddled around everyone except the takeoffs out the back were obviously too steep for her. Every time she dropped in she’d give a cutesy apology to the hapless victim which rendered them unable to express frustration and then she’d be straight out burning someone else.

A quiet remark about how big her arse looks when she’s surfing in front of you would’ve worked wonders I reckon.

Solitude's picture
Solitude's picture
Solitude commented Tuesday, 9 Feb 2021 at 9:54am

Totally different scenario around here. Nearly all are on shortboards and all from really good local families. So the effect it has is lots happy chatter, way lower levels of machismo and generally a good sharing vibe. As mentioned, this is in only certain conditions. Like the waves, every week is different.

Blowin's picture
Blowin's picture
Blowin commented Tuesday, 9 Feb 2021 at 10:12am

I’m only talking about a small minority of the girls. Most are happy just like the blokes. Only one was doing the serial pest thing.

Girls aren’t better or worse or stick to any stereotype I don’t think. Just surfers like the rest of us.

tango's picture
tango's picture
tango commented Tuesday, 9 Feb 2021 at 12:36pm

I agree - once you're in the water everyone is a surfer and the sexes are generally no better or worse than each other.

The one thing I do see that pisses me off is some blokes, often very average surfers, giving the girls an extra hard time hassling, paddling around them, etc. Much more than they do to the blokes, perhaps because they think they're unlikely to get put in their place physically. Strangely nobody seems to do it to my wife when I'm around, but if I'm not there there's always some male failure paddling around her and snaking etc. I'd encourage everyone to call these pricks out when you see it and tell them to pick on someone their own size. Don't be scared - they usually do it to groms too.

Blowin, I'm not sure going the backside angle would be all that helpful, but I'd agree with your implicit point that the girls who drop in and then apologise batting eyelids are right down the bottom of the food chain.

walter-r-white's picture
walter-r-white's picture
walter-r-white commented Tuesday, 9 Feb 2021 at 8:57am

I'd say the line up is just like society. Everyone knows how it should operate if it is to function at its best and yet there will always be two things: (1) a minority of c*nts who know they can break the rules and get away with ruining everyone else's time and (2) the feeble majority who know they should call the minority out on their BS but just don't have the spine to do so.

Don't take me too seriously.

Spuddups's picture
Spuddups's picture
Spuddups commented Tuesday, 9 Feb 2021 at 7:16pm

It pretty much ruins a surf for me if I have to have words with someone. I hate doing it. I told this learner Gumby who kept snaking everyone in the lineup just before Christmas to pull his head in and he just about burst into tears. Made me feel like a right carnt. So Fark that, I just won't bother getting riled at spots where learners and intermediates are able to exist. It's just not worth it. Tune one of them one day then the next day there's another ten of the fuckers in the lineup. It's the definition of a pointless exercise.

freeride76's picture
freeride76's picture
freeride76 commented Tuesday, 9 Feb 2021 at 11:25am

I don't see a minority of cuhts being the problem.

Like Tango, I see cluelessness and zero idea of surf etiquette being the far more pressing and dangerous problem.

I see the entitlement mostly on the shoulders of those who have no skills/knowledge and not even enough of a clue to realise they are clueless. Yet they still feel they are deserving of paddling out into super crowded lineups at A grade waves.

Once that clueless number gets too high then chaos and Darwinian struggles ensue.

I'd much rather a line-up with a couple of shouts then a lineup where it's 50/50 if the next set wave will land me in emergency because some clueless kook is either in the road throwing a board or dropping in.

I surf both types of lineups regularly.

Order, as far as I can tell after surfing all over the world, benefits almost everyone: see Spiggys son for exhibit A. He had a ball tearing up 6ft point surf.
Chaos, likewise makes everyone into a selfish cunt. See Superbank/Kirra on the last swell.

Blowin's picture
Blowin's picture
Blowin commented Tuesday, 9 Feb 2021 at 11:42am

Hypothetical :

You are surfing a crowded wave and observe a bloke hassling flat out. Whilst waiting out the back you realise that he is in pole position and you are in second place. Despite feeling unease towards him you strike up with a pleasant little “ Getting any good ones ? “ and he responds in a deep German accent that it’s very crowded and hard to catch waves and that he wishes everyone would leave.

What do you do ?

Pops's picture
Pops's picture
Pops commented Tuesday, 9 Feb 2021 at 11:48am

More info needed... Am I a long-term local? Is he? Do I know anyone else in the lineup? Does he? Is he reading the ocean well and being selective, or paddling for everything that moves? Does anyone else seem to have the shits or just me?

Some of the above might change what I'd do, but first instinct is to try to fake him into a mediocre wave then sit in pole position til a good one comes...

He who hesitates is lost

Blowin's picture
Blowin's picture
Blowin commented Tuesday, 9 Feb 2021 at 12:12pm

He’s just a gronk hassling everyone cause that’s the only surfing world he knows I’d say. Cant really surf. You don’t have the shits cause he’s not trying to take your waves ....yet.

This hypothetical is based on a recent encounter I had and I’m curious to see how others might react.

Hiccups's picture
Hiccups's picture
Hiccups commented Tuesday, 9 Feb 2021 at 12:36pm

If you didn't burn him and/or give him an earful, then you must be rather different IRL. This is a clear cut, burn him then explain why situation.

tango's picture
tango's picture
tango commented Tuesday, 9 Feb 2021 at 12:43pm

If they're a serial pest and blowing decent waves, one of my coping strategies is to let them carry on and sell them a dud. I don't condone dropping in but if they've blown a couple in a row, someone who's been patient usually figures enough is enough and if there are words, the pack will normally back the one who went and point out the hassler's transgressions.

bonza's picture
bonza's picture
bonza commented Tuesday, 9 Feb 2021 at 4:02pm

mention the war?

spiggy topes's picture
spiggy topes's picture
spiggy topes commented Tuesday, 9 Feb 2021 at 12:15pm

Verlasse jetzt, bitte

Island Bay's picture
Island Bay's picture
Island Bay commented Tuesday, 9 Feb 2021 at 1:23pm

Raus, du beschissene scheissdreck arschloch! Bist du bekloppt?

Basil's picture
Basil's picture
Basil commented Tuesday, 9 Feb 2021 at 1:27pm

I totally agree Stu! I think line-ups are a triumph of human organisation. I can't think of another self-regulated human endevour, where a limited resource is allocated among a group of selfish (in the kindest sense), mainly men, without word or explanation, in a changeable and relatively dangerous environment. Imagine a game of footy without a ref or a very strict set of rules? Everyone remembers when the line-up doesn't work but forgets all the times it does.

Basil

batfink's picture
batfink's picture
batfink commented Tuesday, 9 Feb 2021 at 10:33pm

I’m a little with clif on this one, if I understand him. I suspect, as surfers, we can dolly this up a bit, thinking ‘oh, how spiritual I am, I’m in the water and dancing on water,, grown adults just doing it for the sheer sensual pleasure,’, yada yada yada.

Do we kid ourselves, a bit?

Here’s an alternate thesis. It is entirely Darwinian out there, survival of the fittest (which is quite a subtle theory which is often misunderstood)

While waves are plentiful, it’s all bonhomie, how good is that, no, after you, chipmunks bullshit. Really, you gave the other guy the wave because your having a rest after taking the previous 6 waves and didn’t see him seething while you did it.

But if waves (resources) are plentiful, then everyone relatively gets along. We can kid ourselves that this is some kind of spiritual awakening, but it ain’t, it’s just everyone getting their fill, and maybe you didn’t notice that some have much bigger appetites than others.

There is self regulation, no doubt. We are social animals, and your appetite is dependent on crowd numbers, wave numbers, general feelings before you hit the surf, how long the missus gave you before you have to pick up the kids etc. Another major factor is how much it will destroy the whole experience if you get in an altercation, physical or verbal. None at all, you might just act like a bastard and think everything is hunky dory. If it would destroy your experience, you will avoid it like the plague and accept less waves, or lesser waves.

In times of plenty, the lion sits quietly around the water hole with the lamb, the giraffe and the rhino. All is peachy.

But in times of drought, no swell for 6 weeks, crowds at record levels, warm water seeing every numpty out there, things unravel pretty quickly. It starts with the sneaky, the guy who fades right but goes left, just to make sure you don’t take off. The chatterer who strikes up a conversation and then paddles 3 metres past you and claims the next wave, the ‘oops, I didn’t notice that I was directly in front of you and thus made it impossible for you to take off without drilling a board up my arse’, the mate who gets in your way so his mate can get your wave. Seen ‘em all, done a few of them.

Then the sneaky makes way for the downright aggressive. The blatant drop in, the snarl as they paddle past you, the call for ‘locals only here mate’, and ‘why don’t you fuck off’, then the physical aggression.

Don’t kid yourself. This is no more self regulating then a queue at the lunch counter, and often much less.

Just a thought!

clif's picture
clif's picture
clif commented Tuesday, 9 Feb 2021 at 11:57pm

ah. this explains things well!

"Don't try. That's very important: not to try." Charles Bukowski

batfink's picture
batfink's picture
batfink commented Tuesday, 9 Feb 2021 at 10:31pm

A recent example, well, from around September last year. A local but not well known spot, somewhere between Sydney and Old Bar. Really, only the locals look there. Gorgeous early Spring day and unusually not a drop of wind, apart from a hint of offshore, all day. Sunshine, 2-3’ and occasionally 4’. I’m third guy out, and the waves get better, and before too long there are 6-8 guys out. You’d think that’s ok. Everyone is cool, there are a few places to sit but one area is clearly the best of the beach break. Pretty much everyone on a short board.

Old guy paddles out, (60’s, but fit, all silver hair), he’s on a sleek 11’ or so ocean liner. He paddles past everyone and takes the best wave on every set. Often enough he gets it, surfs just past everyone and flicks off to make sure that he’s furthest out to get the next set wave, even though everyone else is getting 100 metre plus rides.

I have no doubt this guy thinks; 1- he’s the best surfer out there so deserves every wave, 2- he’s the local so deserves every wave, 3- I’ve seen him very rarely in 25 years surfing here, so I don’t think he’s any more local then anyone out there, but there is a bit of an entitled mal crew in these parts, just usually not at this wave.

I also have no doubt that this guy paddles in eventually thinking; 1- how much fun was that, 2- wasn’t it great the way everyone shared the waves, 3- isn’t this such a spiritual dippy-shit pursuit that makes us all feel wonderful, we are so self regulating.

Look, I had a great surf, it was a memorable day, got some great waves, but probably missed a dozen or more that this prick paddled past me, sat just outside where I was sitting and the took the best wave of the set.

I also have no doubt that this guy riding a f#*king ocean liner would have been pissed if someone came out and took all his waves by towing in on a jetski. But he had no inkling he was being a number one arsehole in a group where everyone else was playing by ‘self-regulated’ social norms.

There’s always a dick out there. :-). And they rationalise away their poor behaviour in the same way they do on land. Human beings are a hopelessly flawed species, I look forward to the new overlords.

freeride76's picture
freeride76's picture
freeride76 commented Wednesday, 10 Feb 2021 at 7:40am

and not one person out there called him on it?

Yeah, it turns into Calhouns behavioural sink from time to time (too many rats in a cage) but I'm always amazed how it does work. How people do manage to share that limited resource.

And I think Clif laying on the full blown Identity Politics mumbo-jumbo is close to total BS.

just based on my experience.

Who does it benefit?

it benefits those who put the time in at a particular spot, like almost any human endeavour.

clif's picture
clif's picture
clif commented Wednesday, 10 Feb 2021 at 9:36pm

I wrote a detailed response and thought: sod it. You leapt straight into playing reactionary against so-called about identity politics to trot out the meritocracy trap. How could people possibly have different experiences to you?! It must be bs!

"Don't try. That's very important: not to try." Charles Bukowski