The Necessity of Reparation for Historic Injustices

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bluediamond started the topic in Sunday, 25 Jul 2021 at 1:26pm

Uni assignment i did a few years ago. This is my take on things. I'm sure this will ruffle many feathers. I hope so.
Love Blue Diamond x

The Necessity of Reparation for Historic Injustices

Introduction – Compensatory Justice
Disparities between the standards of living of humans on this planet have long been a part of our history on this planet. From the wealthy nations of the West to the developing and undeveloped nations on this globe, the diversity in the quality of life when viewed from a moral standpoint are without a doubt grossly unfair.
In this paper I will look at why historic injustices do require some form of reparation. I take a strong stance that we are more obliged to solve current injustices than to provide reparation for every act of injustice in the past. In doing this I will first investigate the historic injustice of the Aboriginal people of Australia and I will look at the argument that they are entitled to some form of reparation and why.
I will incoroporate some interesting views from Jeremy Waldron, Robert Nozick and others which will help me slowly build to my conclusion that reparation should be in the form of Non Indigenous Australians surrendering some of our priveleges as a form of reparation.

Historic Injustices to Indigenous Australians:
Australia the continent was well inhabited for many years long before white settlement. It is commonly known that in 1788 Australia was colonised as a country under the rule of the British Empire, with total contempt for the fact that it was already inhabited by a native indigenous race of people.
The way the original inhabitants have been treated, including forced assimilation, execution, stolen families and not even allowed to be recognised as citizens for a large part of white Australia’s history are also well known facts. (Poole, 1999,pp114-142)
There exists now a situation where there is a large divide between Aboriginal and non Aboriginal Australian’s that can be traced back to the moment Australia was invaded by English settlers and the brutal and unfair treatment that has followed.
So at this point now, in 2013 what is the just and fair way to make amends for past actions?
I would argue that a moderate to large amount of reparation is overdue for this nation of people, the Aboriginal people. But there are many challenges to this view point especially that of how much reparation, and what sort of compensation.

Past injustices or present suffering?
One of the questions raised in an issue like this is whether it is better to provide compensation or reparation for past deeds, which have already been done in a previous generation and cannot be changed, or whether it is better to now provide assistance to those who are suffering in their current situations and consider that as a form of moral duty.
To understand this we need to delve a little deeper into this issue and hear some differing viewpoints.
Firstly we need to understand what the best way to provide reparation. How do we judge what is the best way of giving back and how much? Jeremy Waldron states “The historic record has a fragility that consists, …in the sheer contingency of what happened in the past” (Waldron,1992,p5 )
This is saying that we can’t trace every single injustice back to the original act therefore reparation for every act would be almost impossible because it would ultimately be guess work.
In this statement he has an objection from Robert Nozick who believes it is in fact possible to address this problem by “changing the present so that it resembles how the past would have looked had the injustice not taken place” (McKenzie, 2013)
This would be a way to ultimately provide maximum reparation, but is it the correct approach? I believe this is a fairly radical approach, although it does have some merits in the fact it would be working in a positive way for indigenous people, I don’t think it is entirely the right way to deal with these issues but it is on the right track.
Waldron argues that it is based on too many unknowns. “The status of counterfactual reasoning about the exercising of human reasoning of human freedom is unclear”(Waldron 1993,p10)
Which leaves the question somewhat open about the sort of reparation that is required, but provides one clear answer to the key question. Both agree that yes, reparation to some extent is required. But how much and in what form?
Another philosopher who leans more towards Waldron’s views is Kymlicka. He is somewhat more straightforward in his assessment that property rights in particular for Aboriginals would create “massive unfairness” and also he maintains the argument “Aboriginal rights must be grounded in concerns about equality and contemporary disadvantage. (McKenzie, 2013) I agree with both these views but I don’t think they provide any active solutions.

The Solution?
So if its not handing back all of Australia’s land to the original inhabitants that is the most appropriate way to deal with past injustices, then what is?
I look at the current country I grew up in, as a white Australian. I ask myself why I never had Aboriginal friends growing up, no understanding of Aboriginal culture and why my basic understanding of Indigenous Australians is mostly 200 years old. I look at our flag, a symbol of a nation that stole a country from its original inhabitants, with no recognition of the Indigenous people at all on it. I see that Australia considered Indigenous people as less than people until only 40 years ago and I see the way that Indigenous Australians live a completely separate life to the way of life I know as an Australian. I see that the only indigenous politician I am aware of is a former Olympian and it is because of this fact of her sporting status that I know this. I see no collective power or representation of Indigenous Australians and I see non Indigenous Australians,( a culture built on a history of stealing a land and mistreating its people) still taking, taking as much out of this land as they can, with little to no regard of sharing or giving to the original inhabitants. I see a government that says lots of words about ‘closing the gap’ and bringing the living standards of non- indigenous and indigenous Australians closer together, but apart from nice words, there is no conviction, no follow through, just assimilation , and all that still remains are injustices.
As stated by Sparrow, “Continuity gives rise to responsibility on part of present generations of Australians for our history”.(McKenzie,2013). Although deeds happened in the past beyond our control, what we do now to either ignore, or rectify these issues will reflect on us in history. So if we choose to do nothing, we are contributing to the history of the mistreatment of non- indigenous Australians. And this is simply unacceptable in my opinion.

Conclusion
So what is fair? I believe that the way forward is a surrendering of some of our privileges as non- indigenous Australians. The simple fact is it was morally wrong without a doubt what has happened in the past. And it is also morally wrong without a doubt to ignore these facts and not offer some form of reparation in the present. But how much?
I think that going back to Robert Nozick’s argument is a start. I think Nozick is wrong to make the present resemble the past in every aspect. But I do think that it would be reasonable to restore some aspects of the way things should be. The things that happened in the past were out of our control and we can’t go back to changing the way things were. But we could change the way things are.
For some examples. Why not give at least 50% of political power to indigenous people? It surely would be a fair thing to do considering this is their country. Media control. 50 percent. Industry. Realestate. The list goes on. Why do we not acknowledge the indigenous people on our flag, or better still use their flag? Why is Australia still a part of the Commonwealth when it serves little purpose to any of us and serves as a constant reminder to Indigenous Australians that they are still controlled by the original invaders. These to me are fairly simple reparations that would have minimal impact on Australia as a whole. Perhaps, it would alter the way we live but I think it is our responsibility, morally to forfeit some of our privileges for the greater good. Basically a little bit goes a long way.
In closing, it is a fact that a huge injustice occurred to the Indigenous population and suffering continues to this day. There is no easy solution to such a burden of pain. I believe the only solutions are for the non- Indigenous population to take responsibility and sacrifice our own way of life to bring about an overall equality. Sacrifice is not an easy word. But it all comes down to right and wrong. We are in a position to give, in this current generation. What are we so scared to lose, that was never ours in the first place??

Bibliography
McKenzie,C.”Prof” (2013), Lecture, Historic Injustices and Indigenous Rights, Macquarie University
Poole, R. (1999). Nation and Identity.Routledge, London, pp.114-142
Waldron,J. (1992). ‘Superseding Historic Injustice’. Ethics, 103 (1), 4-28

References
Poole, R. (1999). Nation and Identity.Routledge, London, pp.114-142
Waldron,J. (1992). ‘Superseding Historic Injustice’. Ethics, 103 (1), 4-28

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GuySmiley Tuesday, 18 Oct 2022 at 4:26pm

Look out @info is changing the goal posts again

Hey @info your village called….

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Supafreak Tuesday, 18 Oct 2022 at 4:26pm
indo-dreaming wrote:
Supafreak wrote:

@indo , are you say that the military weren’t used in the frontier wars ? that you also refer to as “ so called frontier wars “

The incidents that the umbrella term Frontier wars, involved indigenous people and settlers and police and yes people you could classify as military. (brain fade forgo what they are called in that era)

I guess you could even say indigenous warriors with shields and spears were also military.

It's actually a decent point to look a it that way though, but as i said I'm happy to acknowledge both as wars, but if you acknowledge conflict between indigenous people and colonialist as wars, then you also have to acknowledge conflict between tribes as wars too.

As Seeds did above which painted himself into a corner.

The frontier wars are not commemorated at the Australian War Memorial in Canberra. The Memorial argues that the Australian frontier fighting is outside its charter as it did not involve Australian military forces. This position is supported by the Returned and Services League of Australia but is opposed by many historians, including Geoffrey Blainey, Gordon Briscoe, John Coates, John Connor, Ken Inglis, Michael McKernan and Peter Stanley. These historians argue that the fighting should be commemorated at the Memorial as it involved large numbers of Indigenous Australians and paramilitary Australian units.[58] https://military-history.fandom.com/wiki/Australian_frontier_wars. Just curious indo if you watched the series on SBS …. Australian wars ?

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indo-dreaming Tuesday, 18 Oct 2022 at 4:30pm

Like i said guy, everybody knows when people start throwing around insults its because they are defeated, they dont have a counter argument, if you had a decent counter argument, you'd jump on it.

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seeds Tuesday, 18 Oct 2022 at 4:53pm

I’m not defeated. What a cop out. What a pathetic self serving comment.
Everybody knows blah blah etc etc and yes Indo it is etc not ect off course

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GuySmiley Tuesday, 18 Oct 2022 at 5:08pm

You still don’t get it do you @info unlike any other person on these forums you can’t just make complete and utter shit up, present it as fact and then expect people to constructively engage you in a “proper discussion”.

If it looks and smells like bullshit, well, it’s bullshit and nothing you’ve offered up here is worthy of a considered reply. Again!

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indo-dreaming Tuesday, 18 Oct 2022 at 6:23pm
Supafreak wrote:
indo-dreaming wrote:
Supafreak wrote:

@indo , are you say that the military weren’t used in the frontier wars ? that you also refer to as “ so called frontier wars “

The incidents that the umbrella term Frontier wars, involved indigenous people and settlers and police and yes people you could classify as military. (brain fade forgo what they are called in that era)

I guess you could even say indigenous warriors with shields and spears were also military.

It's actually a decent point to look a it that way though, but as i said I'm happy to acknowledge both as wars, but if you acknowledge conflict between indigenous people and colonialist as wars, then you also have to acknowledge conflict between tribes as wars too.

As Seeds did above which painted himself into a corner.

The frontier wars are not commemorated at the Australian War Memorial in Canberra. The Memorial argues that the Australian frontier fighting is outside its charter as it did not involve Australian military forces. This position is supported by the Returned and Services League of Australia but is opposed by many historians, including Geoffrey Blainey, Gordon Briscoe, John Coates, John Connor, Ken Inglis, Michael McKernan and Peter Stanley. These historians argue that the fighting should be commemorated at the Memorial as it involved large numbers of Indigenous Australians and paramilitary Australian units.[58] https://military-history.fandom.com/wiki/Australian_frontier_wars. Just curious indo if you watched the series on SBS …. Australian wars ?

No i havent watched it, sounds interesting.

Yes some think it should some think it shouldn't, like i said I'm not against it being acknowledged i just believe if you are going to included the conflicts contained under the umbrella term of frontier wars, then you also need to acknowledge and provide a place for the long history of indigenous vs indigenous conflict/wars.

Thats the problem with all this truth telling stuff its often far from truth telling, it more just acknowledging one aspect of history often not talked about, but generally fails to acknowledge the other aspects like pre colonial indigenous violence, or in colonial era or even violence today.

Real truth telling is exposing all the bit's people dont want to talk about or keep hidden, not just picking and choosing the bits that suit one groups views to create a narrative wanted.

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indo-dreaming Tuesday, 18 Oct 2022 at 6:28pm
GuySmiley wrote:

You still don’t get it do you @info unlike any other person on these forums you can’t just make complete and utter shit up, present it as fact and then expect people to constructively engage you in a “proper discussion”.

If it looks and smells like bullshit, well, it’s bullshit and nothing you’ve offered up here is worthy of a considered reply. Again!

And what exactly have i made up????????????????????????????????????

Quote what i have made up?

My discussion point is about the case that if the frontier wars are acknowledged and given a place in the war memorial, then why shouldn't the long history of indigenous on indigenous wars be acknowledged and also given a place in the memorial???

And i havent as yet heard a decent case as to why, if anyone has come close its Supa definitely not you or Seeds that have only reverted to personal insults and its a very well know fact this is what people do when that have no counter argument, that's not bull shit thats a well known fact.

BTW, Its something you do quite regularly not to just to me but other's like Spkan or Blowin, any time you read something you dont like its just post a silly video or name call.

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Supafreak Tuesday, 18 Oct 2022 at 6:34pm

@indo , Have a look at Australian Wars , 3 x1 hour episodes , it’s a warts and all doco that left me with a variety of emotions, none that were good. I think everyone acknowledges that there were wars amongst the indigenous Australians before the British turned up , same with the Native American Indians . Not sure what your point is for including them in the Australian war memorial is though.

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seeds Tuesday, 18 Oct 2022 at 6:43pm

The opening scene had some pretty suspect native gibberish. Ooga booga I think whitey mcfuckhead interpreted it as but it was really complex in the end.
https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=arse%20hat

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bluediamond Tuesday, 18 Oct 2022 at 8:42pm

This is an interesting one.
Reinharts reply not surprisingly....shes already thrown 300million at the local indigenous crew so shut the hell up, play netball and don't bite the hand that feeds!!!
Been some interesting and refreshing commentary on it in the WA media last few days. Its a curly one.
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-10-18/pressure-building-for-diamonds-ne...

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indo-dreaming Wednesday, 19 Oct 2022 at 7:51am
Supafreak wrote:

@indo , Have a look at Australian Wars , 3 x1 hour episodes , it’s a warts and all doco that left me with a variety of emotions, none that were good. I think everyone acknowledges that there were wars amongst the indigenous Australians before the British turned up , same with the Native American Indians . Not sure what your point is for including them in the Australian war memorial is though.

Warts and all is good will watch it.

The question is more why wouldn't these wars be added???

Once they have that means all loose ends will be acknowledged and the acknowledgement or all wars involving Australians will be remembered.

A war memorial i guess does a number of things.

1. It acknowledges wars/conflicts that Australians fought in and it educates people.

2. It's a sign of respect and remembrance for those Australians that fought and died.

Thinking about it more, i think all indigenous wars both frontier and between indigenous should be in the same war memorial, not seperate to me the symbolism of one country and one people is important, to seperate in a seperate memorial does the opposite.

BTW. I dont think most people know about wars and conflicts between indigenous people, especially these days, even here there has been people try to claim before colonisation it was a peacefully utopia, to even suggest it was not these days makes you a target.

Anyway you and me have done this conversation pretty well, maybe we should try to just leave it there and agree to disagree if we must rather than start going into done before territory and things get heated.

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GuySmiley Wednesday, 19 Oct 2022 at 11:41am

FFS

Is wilful ignorance a thing these days that passes as acceptable behaviour?

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indo-dreaming Wednesday, 19 Oct 2022 at 3:27pm

Judging by your comments then yes 100%

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GuySmiley Sunday, 30 Oct 2022 at 8:50pm
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Supafreak Tuesday, 1 Nov 2022 at 8:33am

.

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Supafreak Tuesday, 1 Nov 2022 at 9:03pm

https://iview.abc.net.au/video/NC2201H173S00. Outback Tragedy 7.30 report

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bluediamond Saturday, 5 Nov 2022 at 11:34am
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Supafreak Monday, 28 Nov 2022 at 7:17pm

Hardly surprising from the nationals.

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bluediamond Monday, 28 Nov 2022 at 7:47pm
Supafreak wrote:

Hardly surprising from the nationals. https://twitter.com/senatordodson/status/1597131954713165825?s=46&t=WxMt...

Ha! Yep saw this. My thoughts exactly. Seems we're moving nowhere fast.

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indo-dreaming Monday, 28 Nov 2022 at 7:59pm

What a speech six minutes and no notes, clear concise and on point, amazing women.

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Supafreak Monday, 28 Nov 2022 at 8:11pm

Yes you must be proud indo , pity that First Nation people don’t feel the same way about JP as you do.

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andy-mac Monday, 28 Nov 2022 at 8:36pm
Supafreak wrote:

Yes you must be proud indo , pity that First Nation people don’t feel the same way about JP as you do.

Pat Dodson had some interesting points when interviewed on ABC this afternoon regarding JP.

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Supafreak Monday, 28 Nov 2022 at 10:27pm

. I think Rob nails it , get JP to do the talking so it doesn’t look racist. She doesn’t mind being a puppet if the price is right .

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seeds Monday, 28 Nov 2022 at 11:17pm

I think she’s going to realise one day when her political life is over that she was used. She’s entitled to her opinions and they may be valid to some but these National crackers couldn’t really care about her opinion in the end. They’re only looking to sure up their vote in their regional electorates regardless of whether the voice gets up or not.
Who would be worried about listening to a voice that has no legislative power? Seriously who?
People who think they have something to lose!
Claiming it would be better off to be regionally dealt with. Why? So it can be shut down as quietly as possible?
Why can’t individual regions have a national voice concerning matters that affect them individually? Why can’t all mobs have, collectively, a national voice on matters that affect them all?
If this doesn’t happen it’s just a continuation of the old power imbalance and the archaic view that the (majority of) well to do white establishment patronisingly decide what’s best for the the the poor old incapable aboriginal.

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stunet Tuesday, 29 Nov 2022 at 8:54am

"I think she’s going to realise one day when her political life is over that she was used."

Not sure that's a valid point. Politicians, by their nature, are used: they're the voice of the people. Just how representative they are is open for debate, but they're all 'used'.

My default setting is to resist the voice to parliament but I'm eager to see just what it entails and how people will see this playing out in five, ten, fifteen years.

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andy-mac Tuesday, 29 Nov 2022 at 8:57am

Noel Pearson...... Telling it how it is with National Party.

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seeds Tuesday, 29 Nov 2022 at 9:32am

I don’t mean used by the people. I mean, as Noel Pearson suggests in the news this morning, used by the IPA etc.

What are your concerns about the voice Stu?

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stunet Tuesday, 29 Nov 2022 at 10:05am

That it, potentially, divides more than unites. From what I gather it'll be a device used to restore balance - I mean, it wouldn't be needed if we all shared the same standard of living.

So, in a conceptual way, it'll be similar to other social devices, such as, say, quota systems. But where quota systems are understood to have a temporary time frame - lifting minority groups so the younger generation can "be what they see" then voided once parity is reached - introducing legislation is a more permanent measure.

I'm not rock solid on it, but I feel like it's a false path towards unity. I don't think it'll make matters worse, but I also don't believe they'll make them better.

TBH I need to read more about it. Recently my wife explained how some NT laws were catching more Indigenous than white and following a very subtle redrafting of the laws Indig crew weren't being carted off for minor matters. I expect prior consultation, such as The Voice, will correct matters such as that.

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Supafreak Tuesday, 29 Nov 2022 at 10:34am

For anyone interested in what Noel Pearson had to say on abc radio . https://www.abc.net.au/radionational/programs/breakfast/noel-pearson-bla...

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seeds Tuesday, 29 Nov 2022 at 10:38am

“I expect prior consultation, such as The Voice, will correct matters such as that.”

This is how I see it. I don’t think we have to over think things.

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indo-dreaming Tuesday, 29 Nov 2022 at 1:07pm
seeds wrote:

I think she’s going to realise one day when her political life is over that she was used. She’s entitled to her opinions and they may be valid to some but these National crackers couldn’t really care about her opinion in the end. They’re only looking to sure up their vote in their regional electorates regardless of whether the voice gets up or not.
Who would be worried about listening to a voice that has no legislative power? Seriously who?
People who think they have something to lose!
Claiming it would be better off to be regionally dealt with. Why? So it can be shut down as quietly as possible?
Why can’t individual regions have a national voice concerning matters that affect them individually? Why can’t all mobs have, collectively, a national voice on matters that affect them all?
If this doesn’t happen it’s just a continuation of the old power imbalance and the archaic view that the (majority of) well to do white establishment patronisingly decide what’s best for the the the poor old incapable aboriginal.

Sorry but that makes no sense at all.

Im sure she is extremely happy to be given a platform and have her voice supported by the party on this issue by doing so it's a huge boost to her profile and her voice on the issue, i highly doubt she will feel used now or in the future.

Quite the opposite, imagine how she would feel if she was ignored by Nationals or LNP now or through her career and then post politics thought, what if i was supported by these parties ??? especially on indigenous related issues.

I dont know her future political aspirations but to me it seems she is growing in stature and confidence and is only 41, so if she has support from parties like Nationals or LNP and wants to keep going in politics and can tough it out, i think she has a good chance she will move from The Country liberal party to either Nationals or LNP and go further in politics.

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seeds Tuesday, 29 Nov 2022 at 1:45pm

Well we will have to see her local support at the next election. I see a lot of white fellas supporting her because her views align with theirs but not too many aboriginals. As Stu stated there isn’t enough information about the Voice yet to make an informed decision and yet here we are already with the Nats publicly shitting on it. Why couldn’t the Nats wait on this? Does the CLP support Jacinta’s views? I haven’t seen that anywhere. I suppose they do. I don’t know.
On another note I wonder the voter turnout in the remote aboriginal communities or even Alice or Darwin? I’d suspect apathy and low numbers. Anyone know where to find stats like this.

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bluediamond Tuesday, 29 Nov 2022 at 6:51pm

Hey @indo. Just for the sake of debate, could you mount an argument as to why the Australian government shouldn't be entirely made up of indigenous Australians?

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goofyfoot Tuesday, 29 Nov 2022 at 6:55pm
bluediamond wrote:

Hey @indo. Just for the sake of debate, could you mount an argument as to why the Australian government shouldn't be entirely made up of indigenous Australians?

Can you mount a reason why it should be?
We’re a pretty multicultural society arent we? Shouldn’t our parliament reflect this?

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bluediamond Tuesday, 29 Nov 2022 at 6:56pm

Yes mate @goofy.
A very simple one. This is their land and their country. Always was and always will be.

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bluediamond Tuesday, 29 Nov 2022 at 6:59pm

Sorry @goofy, didn't see the second part of your post. For sure we are, and i'm all down for multiculturalism, but when it's a painstaking struggle to get and indigenous voice in parliament, and as Stu pointed out, will cause division, then why not just flip the whole thing on its head, and give the reigns to the owners of this country and let them decide how they want to run it? And obviously this reeks of idealism and romantacism but i'm just making the point that why are we always looking at it from what the whitefellla thinks indigenous crew should be ''allowed'' to have and what powers they're 'allowed' to recieve.

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Supafreak Tuesday, 29 Nov 2022 at 7:19pm

Pretty funny watching the nationals nationally having different views and support. Littleproud has blown this by prematurely taking a side that not even all his party agree on . WA nationals sticking with the yes vote . Like it was said in parliament today, its up to the Australian public not politicians. I think Noel Pearson’s summed up littleproud perfectly, what a dressing down that was .

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goofyfoot Tuesday, 29 Nov 2022 at 7:24pm
bluediamond wrote:

Sorry @goofy, didn't see the second part of your post. For sure we are, and i'm all down for multiculturalism, but when it's a painstaking struggle to get and indigenous voice in parliament, and as Stu pointed out, will cause division, then why not just flip the whole thing on its head, and give the reigns to the owners of this country and let them decide how they want to run it? And obviously this reeks of idealism and romantacism but i'm just making the point that why are we always looking at it from what the whitefellla thinks indigenous crew should be ''allowed'' to have and what powers they're 'allowed' to recieve.

Yeah sorry about that BD I added the second part 10 seconds after I posted the first bit.

Yep I hear what you’re saying, to me there’s no easy answer that’s for sure.

I think if you’re born here, eg. You and I, then we have as much say as anyone else that’s born here. That’s just me and it’s a tricky subject. Obviously one that’s very close to your heart.

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bluediamond Tuesday, 29 Nov 2022 at 7:35pm

Cheers for your reply @goofy.
Yeah it's definitely a tricky subject. It's never felt like my 'home' but i was born here. I do feel like i belong here but i don't feel like it's my country.
My above post is just a way to look at the argument/debate from a different perspective and imagining everything the other way around, flipped on it's head.
Australian society suddenly would probably be willing to accept a 50percent non indigenous/settler government quite readily if that was the reality..., which goes all the way to my original post at the beginning of this thread about how i believe the Australian government should be made up of at least 50percent indigenous Australians, as should media control as should land ownership.
But yep, there's no easy solutions, but a changing perspective is probably a key element from the one that's persisted for the last couple of hundred years.

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truebluebasher Tuesday, 29 Nov 2022 at 9:37pm

Jacinta : "Learjetsetting Linda dripping with Gucci > Darkens the Dirty People!"

Indigenous Minister Linda : "Wotz a Gucci? ...I don't got that...does that mean I'm not dark enough yet!"

Jacinta : "We should all be forced to model PM Howard's super villain eyebrows...outta my way you!"
https://img-s-msn-com.akamaized.net/tenant/amp/entityid/AA14EDvu.img?h=0...

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11479959/Anthony-Albanese-defen...

Q : 'Just when did the endangered Indigenous Gauccian Tribe die out?'
A : 'Experts bizarrely believe they never went outta fashion!'
Museum Exhibit A : "Feminist Face of Gucci remodelled as The Indigenous Youth Parliament PM."

https://www.smh.com.au/lifestyle/life-and-relationships/i-still-want-the...

Jacinta delivers an Apology to "Last Season's People!"
Obvious to all that Jacinta's scary (PM Howard's eye brows) still need a bit more teasing!

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seeds Tuesday, 29 Nov 2022 at 9:46pm

One of your best as it wasn’t (tl;dr)
Very funny

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indo-dreaming Tuesday, 29 Nov 2022 at 10:50pm
bluediamond wrote:

Hey @indo. Just for the sake of debate, could you mount an argument as to why the Australian government shouldn't be entirely made up of indigenous Australians?

Firstly i think it's great that we have many indigenous people in parliament and not just that but indigenous people with a diverse range of views from people like Jacinta Price or previously Warren Mundine, to independents like Jacqui Lambie to even people like Lidia Thorpe, even if im not a fan of her, diversity of views is a good thing.

In regard to the whole government elected being indigenous technically, i guess it's possible if Indigenous people ran in every seat and got voted in, but chances of it happening you would expect are like one in a zillion.

Obviously we live in a democracy where every Australian can run to be elected that is over 18 (some possible restrictions on criminal charges etc) and all Australians over 18 can also vote.

And we are all Australians no matter our ethnic backgrounds or skin colour so obviously it would go against our values and id even expect the law to discriminate and only give one ethnic group in Australia the right to run for government or the right to vote.

In my opinion in an ideal world those in parliament would also reflect the make up in society for example if 50% of the population is women and 50% men it would be great to also have that mix in parliament.

It would even be great to see Australians of all types of ethnic backgrounds in government in similar percentages to seen in the Australian community be it Asian, Indian, African, European, Middle Eastern and of course indigenous decent.

But for the Australian government to be made up of just one single ethnic group of Australians be it Asian, Indian, African, European, Middle Eastern or Indigenous decent, well i think that would be undemocratic and wrong on so many different levels and id expect not many people would disagree with me.

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Supafreak Wednesday, 30 Nov 2022 at 10:19am

https://www.abc.net.au/radionational/programs/breakfast/nationals-opposi.... Nationals' opposition to the Voice 'extremely disappointing': Ken Wyatt. He says he took a "detailed" report with a model for a Voice to parliament to the former Coalition cabinet, twice.

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AndyM Wednesday, 30 Nov 2022 at 1:15pm

What an embarrassment, what a national disgrace.

Hopefully this is another nail in coffin of the Nationals as an electable political party.

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Supafreak Wednesday, 30 Nov 2022 at 6:51pm

Smiling happy people FB2736-D0-3490-4753-9110-CA82-F4-AA8-B58

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AlfredWallace Wednesday, 30 Nov 2022 at 8:09pm
Supafreak wrote:

Smiling happy people FB2736-D0-3490-4753-9110-CA82-F4-AA8-B58

Hey Supafreak. Now there’s a ‘motley crew’ if I’ve ever seen one. Totally disgraceful. It includes one ‘coconut’, I’ll leave it up to you to try and find out the context of that word. AW.

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Supafreak Wednesday, 30 Nov 2022 at 8:12pm

White inside I’m guessing. No one looks particularly comfortable in that photo.

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seeds Wednesday, 30 Nov 2022 at 10:11pm

Wiki
In January of that year, Greens Lingiari candidate George Hanna had shared a racist meme attacking Price, referring to her as a "coconut" (an ethnic slur). Price described the post as despicable, and called for the Greens to disendorse Hanna, but the Greens refused.[17] Aboriginal activist Steve Hodder Watt accused Price of hypocrisy, and published messages in which Price referred to him as "white".[18][19]
ps George is indigenous
https://www.sbs.com.au/nitv/article/a-greens-candidate-apologises-for-ra...

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bluediamond Wednesday, 30 Nov 2022 at 10:06pm

Cheers for your above reply @indo. obviously we have pretty strong opposing views but can see theres some common ground there.
Yeah was just a hypothetical for a different perspective.

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indo-dreaming Thursday, 1 Dec 2022 at 7:44am
AlfredWallace wrote:

Hey Supafreak. Now there’s a ‘motley crew’ if I’ve ever seen one. Totally disgraceful. It includes one ‘coconut’, I’ll leave it up to you to try and find out the context of that word. AW.

You do know the term "coconut" is a racial slur???

Obviously the meaning is they appear black/brown on the outside but white on the inside.

While still demeaning and offensive no matter who says it, just like the N word you might be able to get away with it if you are a person of colour, but if your white it's a racial slur arguable a racist remark.

It's wrong and backwards on a number of levels.

Firstly you are implying that someone doesn't think or act a certain way based on a racial stereotype of how you believe an ethnic group should act or think(which is racist in itself), your propagating the idea that there is only one correct way for an indigenous person to think or act, instead of being individuals who like all of us should be free to think and act how we like without being limited by our background or skin colour.

It's damaging for both indigenous people and others to think this way,

For example, imagine in a remote Indigenous community if the local mob thought this way and a young girl had dreams of going to the city and being a doctor or a politician but all her life her mob was continually putting her down saying she is a coconut and not a real aboriginal person and just wants to be like white people, would it help her succeed or would it eventually wear her down and dampen her dream and see her settle for less.?