Australia - you're standing in it

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Sheepdog started the topic in Friday, 18 Sep 2020 at 11:51am

The "I can't believe it's not politics" thread.

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Supafreak Monday, 16 Aug 2021 at 10:57am

The bogan report

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Blowin Monday, 23 Aug 2021 at 12:12pm

Scomo and the LNP using the cover of Covid to destroy regional employment mainstays for Australians. The plantation owners demand their cotton pickers!

Scomo intends to import unskilled labourers from Asia to undermine locals in the fishing, agriculture, forestry and meat processing industries at a start. Where is the ALP? ALP doesn’t care because being woke means that protecting locals = racism. Well, that’s the story they use to cover up their complicity in the neoliberal destruction of Australia and they’re sticking to it! This is the real reason for the punitive vaccine lockdowns….scummo’s masters demand slaves and consumer units ASAP and the only political chance they have to circumvent the Covid story is to vaccinate everyone, let it rip and stop reporting cases. The same tiny case fatality rate of fuck all will then be massaged by the media as acceptable.

“Australia’s long-awaited agriculture visa will offer temporary foreign workers in the sector a pathway to permanent residency for the first time, in a significant shake-up of the nation’s ­migration program…

Agriculture Minister David Littleproud said the visa would create a “huge structural shift” in the sector’s workforce that would boost investment confidence.

“This is about the next generation of migrants who will build regional Australia,” he said.

“We want to build these jobs in regional Australia and build the population and capacity of regional Australia with these jobs. So the pathway to permanent residency is an exciting tool.”

The new visa will be extended beyond horticulture to provide extra workers for the meat processing, fisheries and forestry sectors. It will start on September 30 and apply to skilled, semi-skilled and unskilled workers for a three-year period. Workers who wish to commit to working beyond three years in the sectors would be given a route to permanent residency“

Robwilliams's picture
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Robwilliams Monday, 23 Aug 2021 at 1:51pm

Anything for a Liberal buck. Whats the minimum littleproud would labour for? Investment confidence on an Australian slaves wage. How low can we go?

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Robwilliams Monday, 23 Aug 2021 at 1:52pm

Anything for a Liberal buck. Whats the minimum littleproud would labour for? Investment confidence on an Australian slaves wage. How low can we go?

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Optimist Monday, 23 Aug 2021 at 2:49pm

Th Elon Musk video Simba posted is a must watch and answers many biblical concerns for me personally as my pondering on unanswered questions from the book of revelation regarding the end of this civilisation slowly come to light.
PS loved the Bogan report as well.

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Blowin Monday, 23 Aug 2021 at 3:08pm
Robwilliams wrote:

Anything for a Liberal buck. Whats the minimum littleproud would labour for? Investment confidence on an Australian slaves wage. How low can we go?

We’ve actually been here before so it’s more just a return to the roots of our past. The Scummo Regional Slave Visa is a reworking of the model used by the English monarchy when they shipped their persecuted underclass out to Australia as convicts , with the proviso that if they worked as slaves for a set amount of years they got to stay.

Scummo doesn’t have reeking convict hulks moored in the Thames from which to source the slave labour for his modern day Rum Corps, so he has to find them elsewhere.

If Scummo wasn’t an upstanding member of the Church you’d have to question his character!

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Robwilliams Monday, 23 Aug 2021 at 4:34pm

Exploitation of cheap labour is not raising the bar in a first world country. Why won't Aussies fill these jobs? Surely the anserw lies within our own countries abilities to source from within. Why aren't the positions attractive enough for Aussies to fill. Plenty of work but not enough reward for the modern Australian needs.
Exploitation an't a success story both environmentally and financially. But shareholders returns must continue no matter what.

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indo-dreaming Monday, 23 Aug 2021 at 5:06pm
Robwilliams wrote:

Exploitation of cheap labour is not raising the bar in a first world country. Why won't Aussies fill these jobs? Surely the anserw lies within our own countries abilities to source from within. Why aren't the positions attractive enough for Aussies to fill. Plenty of work but not enough reward for the modern Australian needs.
Exploitation an't a success story both environmentally and financially. But shareholders returns must continue no matter what.

I think in generally most westerners are soft and lazy, im including myself in that.

Fruit picking, vegetable picking is super physical work in the elements and the receptiveness does your head in.

Meat worker type jobs are just depressing blood and guts and the stench, they say you cant wash it off, i remember when i was on the dole, they were always trying to get me to apply for those jobs.

You would have to pay Aussies top dollar to get more interest in these areas but then that cost needs to be passed on to the consumer which would mean decent prices rises, and if its exported often needs to compete against other imports.

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indo-dreaming Monday, 23 Aug 2021 at 5:34pm

Repetitiveness not receptiveness, missed my edit window stuck on the phone.

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Robwilliams Monday, 23 Aug 2021 at 6:42pm

indeed. if its not me its someone else's problem and if my own country can't bare the hard ship I can sell it to the hope of the third world. Sounds like a perfect business plan, exploitation or not. Like mexican's crossing the border some ones making a buck

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Blowin Monday, 23 Aug 2021 at 6:56pm

Indo- Australians pay world beating top dollar for everything. Probably the largest cost input of every good and service produced in Australia is the cost of land and housing. Even the local cafe owner needs to pay his huge mortgage on his house and rent on his cafe before he’s in the black each week.

The biggest driver of land and housing cost over the past 15 years is mass immigration. The last year has seen unsustainable and one-off stimulus thrown at the housing market to keep it afloat in the absence of the mass immigration Ponzi. This is why Scummo is so desperate to let it rip and throw open the borders.

The new Slave Visa is another avenue used to prop up the cost of business which is the price of real estate. Without the immigration Ponzi the real estate gets more affordable. Business costs are lessened and the price of Australian wages is affordable.

The percentage of profit which ends up in the hands of labour has been dropping for years , whilst the percentage of profit which has gone to capital has risen. Profits need to take a haircut.

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Robwilliams Monday, 23 Aug 2021 at 7:14pm

How many large agriculture companies lobby Canberra and have offshore tax haven bank accounts? The main players of Australian politics have all been involved in this no doubt. But what has this business conduct given regular Aussie voters and their democratic system. A bit off topic but you can see were i'm going.

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adam12 Monday, 23 Aug 2021 at 7:15pm

Blowin
"Scummo doesn’t have reeking convict hulks moored in the Thames from which to source the slave labour for his modern day Rum Corps, so he has to find them elsewhere."
The Rum Corps was formed in England as a regiment of the British Army sent to relieve the First Fleet Marine Corps. They were not convicts. How the Rum Corps has anything to do with the point you are trying to make about modern immigration policy is head scratching, like a lot of what you say.

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Hutchy 19 Monday, 23 Aug 2021 at 7:35pm

Blowin - no one is forcing anyone to work . Maybe those on the dole that can work should be forced to do community service ,

RW - had a quick think but not one comes to mind . Please give just one name . Australian companies who make their profits here have a great incentive to pay tax in Australia . It allows them to give their shareholders dividends with franking credits . Most shareholders find this extremely attractive .

So I think you are very wrong .

This business conduct has given a lot to our voters through employment , innovation , security , taxes and dividends to mainly retirees .

All groups lobby governments at all levels ! Always have and always will . That's how things are supposed to work . Do you think our governments ae smart enough to work out how things should happen by themselves ? What a novel idea .And not just in democracies . Do you think democracy is bad ?

Unions , health care groups , media , individuals - everyone .

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Blowin Monday, 23 Aug 2021 at 7:52pm
adam12 wrote:

Blowin
"Scummo doesn’t have reeking convict hulks moored in the Thames from which to source the slave labour for his modern day Rum Corps, so he has to find them elsewhere."
The Rum Corps was formed in England as a regiment of the British Army sent to relieve the First Fleet Marine Corps. They were not convicts. How the Rum Corps has anything to do with the point you are trying to make about modern immigration policy is head scratching, like a lot of what you say.

The businesses which play the tune to which Scummo dances are the modern Rum Corps.

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Roker Monday, 23 Aug 2021 at 8:04pm

The 5% unemployed are the Coalition's most essential and valuable constituency. Bulwark against inflation and someone to blame for all the ills of society.

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Robwilliams Monday, 23 Aug 2021 at 8:17pm

I agree but why not disclose in a transparent way the money received pre election time rather than after. I believe in a transparent democracy that serves it people with out hiding hidden agendas or securing the next election at a cost to it's electorates. Lobbying has high jacked the voice of reason and response to some regard. Free media and scrutiny is essential in a democracy. I love my country but not the deception with which we are sometimes lead. Tax havens benefit the mega wealthy of first world but don't allow democratic countries to reach their full potential or evolve to a better state of wellbeing efficencey. Of course dividends are important to share holders but that shouldn't come at a cost to local communities. They work amongst. If people see big business dominating in unethical ways to which they become burdened with they should ask why? Some of our ministers are making a meal of it. yes they received office through democratic vote but that don't always make their actions right. Democracy is the voice of the people wether I like it or not. Democracy in it's purest sense sometimes can't deliver. When democracy fails or becomes miss used people loose faith. I don't have a Ag company that I know of but considering how big some of the multi national companies are i don't doubt the use tax havens. Australian government has been failing on a number of recent issues hence scomos difficulties at the momment and with the regions calling him out. I see the Australian cotton industry as a major player in the detriment to down stream equality in the ag sector both environmentally and community wise. But any thing for a buck right

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Robwilliams Monday, 23 Aug 2021 at 8:36pm

If a democratic system fails to keep up with the world it opperates amongst it might be time to review some laws and make some pro active changes. Legislation and law reform has not kept up in this regard. I don't have the power to implement these changes. Some would debate nothing needs to change but I see differently in amongst my communities

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Hutchy 19 Monday, 23 Aug 2021 at 9:09pm

I agree with you 99.99% Rob . All donations should be scrutinised and preferably before elections but this will probably lead to bankable IOU's with payments made the day before an election .

Tax havens should be banned and most Australian companies with businesses here do not use them . I really can't think of one . BHP has just announced it is getting rid of its listing in the UK ( which may have reduced the tax they paid ) as they want to reward Australian investors with more franking credits . They were not allowed to favour Ozzie investors over investors in BHP PLC .

The companies and people who use them ARE doing the wrong thing imo . Avoiding their social responsibilities . Many are big tech and mega wealthy people who can afford a fair tax rate ( eg Bono ) .

A 50% rate is not fair and offers way too much incentive to avoid . When Maggie Thatcher lowered the tax rate in the UK to a fair level all the experts were amazed that the revenue increased as people did not have the incentive to use havens like the Channel Is and Trusts . Warren Buffet doesn't use them although Bill Gates has set up a Foundation that does reduce his tax ( a lot ) .

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Blowin Monday, 23 Aug 2021 at 9:58pm

A 50 percent tax rate is more than fair. Super profits shouted taxed accordingly.

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groundswell Tuesday, 24 Aug 2021 at 5:48am
Robwilliams wrote:

Anything for a Liberal buck. Whats the minimum littleproud would labour for? Investment confidence on an Australian slaves wage. How low can we go?

When i first moved to Perth i was offered a job in a nursery as i like growing chillies and the odd mull plant and thought it would be a good job for me. I was also building aeroponic systems for a local hydro shop for some extra pocket money.
Anyway i was only paid $16.00 an hour in 2015 as a 37 year old nursery hand who happened to be a security technician/electrician. I couldnt work in security technician job any more as the company i worked for to finish my apprenticeship gave me bad references due to my mental health and that was 8 years of my career so i had to include them as an old employee.
I had the bad reference for my mental health situation. Anyway i was a well experienced electrician/security tech who used to get $35 an hour now getting $16 i could live with that but i wasnt allowed to use my phone at work untill lunch time (which i use for telling the time) i had a lot of people trying to call me and would spend 30 minutes of my whole lunch break speaking to people who called.
My supervisor was a good bloke but $16 an hour is just shit money and its legal. i was better off on the dole and selling hydro setups for cash.dole is $800 a fortnight i was earning $630 a week as a nursery hand, after an extra $90 i put towards superannuation thats $540 a week. piss all for a hard job and a lot of responsibility (looking after 6 huge greenhouses,weeding, fixing roofs etc and the health of each plant, potting / fertilizing clones and mixing soils with a tractor among other tasks.
I left there as i started smoking again (being sent to hospital for schizophrenia for 5 weeks also) came back from hospital to find out they are replacing me with another guy, who also realized they were ripping him off, after a week he left too.
As a forklift driver i was getting $30 something an hour and bought a 1989 suburu liberty with four days pay.
unreal money for a fun job with other good staff.Maybe a bit of danger to the job but at least they pay well. The money in horticulture business is just crap, they sell millions of plants a year and only offer $16 an hour to needed staff, fucking bs.
Even working at Bunnings would be better than that.At least there staff are happy or seem to be.
It just sucks that for anyone starting out in a new career path are ripped off before they learn the trade
especially apprentices or trainees.A lot of businesses see the people who take those positions as cheap labour and put way too much responsibility into their hands for what they are paid.

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Hutchy 19 Tuesday, 24 Aug 2021 at 9:37am

Blowin - Have you ever paid 50% and if so for how long . It is now 45% for every dollar earned over
$180k . Large companies in Australia only pay 30% .

Many very working Australians who earn $180k + ( doctors , builders , electricians , miners etc etc ) do not make super profits . After paying the home loan , schooling fees , medicare levy and the fucken surcharge , GST etc etc there is not much left over to save for a rainy day .

Enough of the class warfare imo !

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Hutchy 19 Tuesday, 24 Aug 2021 at 9:56am

Blowin- as you either didn't read or understand my previous post I will point out again that as the 45-50% rate is unfair it gives an incentive to find ways around it . The very rich pay experts to find ways to legally reduce their tax rate . This also makes the experts rich . Tax havens , trusts , foundations etc .

Thatcher reduced the rate , people though it fair , paid the tax and tax receipts went up !!!

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AndyM Tuesday, 24 Aug 2021 at 10:07am

Haha, cry me a river for those on $180k P.A.!

It's you who's engaging in class warfare right now.

Straight out of the LNP playbook Hutchy.

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Craig Tuesday, 24 Aug 2021 at 10:03am
AndyM wrote:

Haha, cry me a river for those on $180k P.A.!

Straight out of the LNP playbook Hutchy.

Right!

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GuySmiley Tuesday, 24 Aug 2021 at 10:10am
AndyM wrote:

Haha, cry me a river for those on $180k P.A.!

Straight out of the LNP playbook Hutchy.

That’s “taxable” income too after the accountant has declared every permitted deduction through the company books and overarching discretionary family trust with its distributions (all under the point at which tax is payable of course) are also considered.

You serious have to wonder, that false (dishonest) logic is the very same that allows Morrison to say its low to average income earners are those most effected on any moves against negative gearing etc ....... it also allows very wealthy people to claim govt subsidies for services like child care!!

It’s all a fraud that thinking

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Blowin Tuesday, 24 Aug 2021 at 10:21am

Yep. I paid top tax rates for years. I didn’t enjoy parting with the money and it infuriated me the way the government just funnelled it to their mates whilst needed services went underfunded. But that’s the price of living in a world class social democracy.

Just get your head around it and move on , give unto Caesar that which is Caesar’s , death and taxes etc.

Tax avoiders thought I was a mug but it’s about being a decent citizen and reciprocating for all the benefits that society provides. If you like the philosophy and reality of our safe and secure nation then you’ve got to put your money where your mouth is.

All your talk of reducing business tax rates and Thatcherism makes you sound like a greedy creep.

The idea that people who want to avoid tax are mollified if the tax rate is reduced is immediately disproven when you discover that most large companies pay zero tax at all. Many companies are sitting in positive territory when you factor in government subsidies and grey area corruption.

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stunet Tuesday, 24 Aug 2021 at 10:29am

Amazing to think that during times of war, America's highest tax rate has gone as high as 90% to support the national interest.

Except for the recent wars - then it dropped to 30%.

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Cacadajy Tuesday, 24 Aug 2021 at 11:39am

Unfortunately our system that requires citizens and businesses and corporations to pay tax to contribute to all of the shared things and sevices we all enjoy resembles a Favela in Rio. A million different shapes and colours cobbled together with a million different pieces of weird shit attached to and hanging from it.

The cause, Different Government's amending and bending it to suit their policies and beleifs. Then a couple hundred thousand tax lawyers and accountants and shit tonne of selfish greedy people pick at it and push it and prod it and smear it with crap to create openings and tears and grey areas. Then the pollies have to throw some paint on it over here and over there to cover a gap or smudge made by said lawyers and accountants etc. But only those gaps and smudges that suit the ruling pollies agenda.
And on and around it goes until is is an ugly mismatched cobbled together shitshow.
No 1 person can fully understand the whole thing any more because it has been manipulated and stretched by a million different hands. It is impossible to comprehend with certainty.

Now is where I should offer some solution or area's of improvement etc.

But I am clueless when it comes to a system of taxation where if people/ business/ corporations are willing to pay large amounts of money to creative accountants and lawyers that system of taxation can be manipulated and shaped to ensure that person, business corporation that paid a large amount of money can contribute the absolute weenyist teeniest amount of money to those shared things and services that we all enjoy.

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AndyM Tuesday, 24 Aug 2021 at 11:49am

Might be worth mentioning that the median Australian wage is around $50k p.a.

So unless I'm mistaken, half of the population earn less than that.

Now that's food for thought, especially when you think of the reality of entrenching a working poor.

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Hutchy 19 Tuesday, 24 Aug 2021 at 12:24pm

Fu.. Me Blowin . I bag you for your inability to read ( comprehend ) my posts and you then post -

"All your talk of reducing business tax rates and Thatcherism makes you sound like a greedy creep."

Where is your mind at with all the BS you write . I have NEVER once said business tax rates should be reduced . Never talked about Thatcherism and only pointed to the FACT that by reducing the tax rate to a fair level , people were prepared to pay it and tax rev went up . You seem like a stupid creep !

Speaking of Caesar I highly recommend Colleen McCulloch's series of books about him ( it is more than 10 pages Blowin so maybe not for you ) . Revered in Italy , she was/is the worlds greatest expert ( hooray - just thought of another expert I can believe in ) and her books are a personal favourite .

I am guessing Blowin that if you could have afforded a sleazy tax advisor you would not have paid that tax . I think everyone who earns money should pay some tax to enjoy the feeling of contributing .

0-18k now no tax . They should pay 5% ( ? ) 18-45k now 19% say 15% , 45-120k now 32.5 say 20% , 120-180K 32.5% say 25% and 180+ now 45% say 30% ( the same as businesses pay ) .

Ban trusts , tax havens for residents etc .

Like Thatcher's idea I would bet our tax revenue would increase dramatically .

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Cacadajy Tuesday, 24 Aug 2021 at 1:50pm

I think those taxation rates are fair.

It isn't really the salaried and PAYG earners that exploit our malleable Swiss cheese tax system and dubious instruments and locations to avoid contributing a few bucks though.

It's those individuals and businesses that can afford the fees for unscrupulous accounting and legal strategies of tax avoidance that need to be incentivised through lower rates. And they need the toys they play with like complex trust and business structures etc etc etc. taken away from them.

Absolutely impossible to actually do though. Would be utopian to have all people, businesses and fat corporations pay tax on the actual real income generated by any and all activities in Australia.

Be good to see Google pay tax on the money they receive from selling my highly dubious and thoroughly unsavoury internet browsing activity.

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Hutchy 19 Tuesday, 24 Aug 2021 at 4:23pm

I think it could and should be done Caca . If only someone had the proverbials like a Maggie , Churchill or Keating .

Give 5 years grace to all the trusts etc and one year for havens to unwind them . Also increase allocated pensions from zero to 10% with 30% on incomes over say $500k or maybe lower .

If I was emperor ( only would want the job for 10 minutes as" power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely " ) would also keep Keatings franking credits , cut taxes dramatically on vices like smoking , gambling and alcohol ( I don't gamble or drink ) and cancel stamp duty on property purchases .
If I had more time to think about it I am sure I would do a few other things as well in the 10 minutes .

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Hutchy 19 Tuesday, 24 Aug 2021 at 4:46pm

Before you have a go at me Blowin about Thatcherism or whatever I am only taking about the individual's ability to make a decision they believe in without the mainstreams support . They all have big gonads !

I guess you do to . Something is stopping the blood from getting to your brain . Sorry ! A poor joke .

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indo-dreaming Tuesday, 24 Aug 2021 at 5:07pm

I know little about tax but i think your right Hutchy imagine paying 45% in tax at that rate your basically having half your money stolen from you, i dont blame people for doing anything they can to reduce their tax.

I use to employee someone and earn as much as i could, but now i dont bother it's just all to much of a hassle, id rather just work alone and earn less with less hassles and paper work etc

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Vic Local Tuesday, 24 Aug 2021 at 5:17pm

"imagine paying 45% in tax at that rate your basically having half your money stolen from you"
And yet, I bet you a billion dollars indo dreaming doesn't mind driving on tax payer funded roads, attended a tax payer funded school, was born in a tax payer funded hospital, got a tax payer funded vaccination, and didn't send his job keeper payments back.
"stolen from you" is just hard right gibberish.

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Cacadajy Tuesday, 24 Aug 2021 at 5:49pm

You haven't hit the hardest one - Negative Gearing.
Apparently hits middle income go getters pretty harshly.

Investment properties are important cause there's plenty of renters out there that need something to rent. And the broader, more diverse range of landlords out there the better I reckon.

But come on. If you can't cover some losses on an investment you can't afford the investment.

And on the other side if you made too much money from your usual occupation and you're not happy with your tax exposure. Simply throw in a new stove, maybe replace that functional yet weather worn roof or even a fresh coat of paint at your investment property. Not a very big increase in property value individually but cumulative??? And you made a loss on your investment so poof goes your tax problem.

If I invest 5k in a coupla pounds of Macca's finest bush bud, bag it up into ounces ready to make a profit on my investment.

But the boys come around and we get on.
2 weeks later we've smoked a quarter of it, traded another quarter for slabs of Bundy and Cokes and that hottie Nicole came over one night and distracted us with a rendition of Basic Instinct while her older brother Colin flogged another quater. So I sell the last 7Oz for a loss of 3k.
Can I offset that against the tax payable on my income from my job as Finance Minister in the QLD Government?

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indo-dreaming Tuesday, 24 Aug 2021 at 6:00pm
Vic Local wrote:

"imagine paying 45% in tax at that rate your basically having half your money stolen from you"
And yet, I bet you a billion dollars indo dreaming doesn't mind driving on tax payer funded roads, attended a tax payer funded school, was born in a tax payer funded hospital, got a tax payer funded vaccination, and didn't send his job keeper payments back.
"stolen from you" is just hard right gibberish.

Firstly i dont pay 45% tax, i pay a much lower more reasonable fair rate.

It's not the concept of tax that is the issue its the rate nobody should be paying 45% in tax there is nothing at all fair with having almost half your money taken from you, no matter how much you are earning.

It's like Hutchy says it encourages people to try to avoid paying it, i think a lot of what he says is true.

But i dont expect some marxist/communist/socialist to understand.

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Vic Local Tuesday, 24 Aug 2021 at 6:38pm

Does someone else want to teach shit for brains the concept of marginal tax rates and a tax free threshold? I just don't have the energy for it today.

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GuySmiley Tuesday, 24 Aug 2021 at 6:48pm

Hey Hollywood, I know you love your resurch so check out how the tax burden (as a percentage of total tax paid) has increasingly fallen on individuals since, let’s randomly pick a date, how about since 1990 coinciding with the start of Howard’s PMship and Australia’s folly with neoliberalism (which you were defending just the other day).

You will find companies (private and ASX public companies) now only pay a fraction of what they once paid ..... all in the country one trillion $AUD in debt.

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Craig Tuesday, 24 Aug 2021 at 6:53pm

Yeah Indo, tax rates in Australia are progressive.

IE if you earn $200k you don't pay 45% on that $200k. You pay 0% for first $18,200, 19% on the next lump from $18,201 to $45k, 32.5% on the next lump from $45k to $120k and then 37% from the amount of $120k to $180k and 45% on the remaining $20k.

So it averages down the tax rate below that 45%.

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etarip Tuesday, 24 Aug 2021 at 7:33pm

Jeez, stop with the facts people.
It’s all about the feelz, remember.

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indo-dreaming Tuesday, 24 Aug 2021 at 7:34pm

It's pointless giving VL a reply as is just a complete tosser.

But thanks Craig, but i know full well how the tax system works.

Moving the tax free threshold from memory 13k to 18k was one of the best things Labor did

Once you reach 180K people still pay 45% on every dollar earnt after that sure you can look at it all evening out, but thats not reality, the reality is you are still having 45c of every dollar taken from you, im never going to have that problem but god it must suck.

I just agree with VL that the rates are too high and just encourage high income earners to try to avoid paying tax.

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Craig Tuesday, 24 Aug 2021 at 7:36pm

I love how this thread has now somehow turned to tax talk. Ha.

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Vic Local Tuesday, 24 Aug 2021 at 8:34pm

"but i know full well how the tax system works"
Really Indo-dreaming why did you say "I know little about tax" and then type "nobody should be paying 45% in tax ..., no matter how much you are earning."
You can't blame Craig for explaining the tax system to you when you make those types of statements.

Australia's tax system is so skewed to people with capital, investments, and businesses. There are so many deductions and concessions available to high income earners, they typically end up paying no or fuck all tax compared to wage earners.

Don't expect anything to change anytime soon. Australians are easily scared whenever a new tax is proposed (carbon tax) or a ridiculous rebate is up for the chop (franking credits). We are going to have a hopelessly complex and very unfair tax system for a very long time. And then the voting public crack the shits because we don't have Greek taxes and Scandinavian social services.

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indo-dreaming Tuesday, 24 Aug 2021 at 8:43pm

Sorry that last line should read agree with Hutchy.

Vic Local wrote:

"but i know full well how the tax system works"
Really Indo-dreaming why did you say "I know little about tax" and then type "nobody should be paying 45% in tax ..., no matter how much you are earning."
You can't blame Craig for explaining the tax system to you when you make those types of statements.
.

Because i know little about tax outside of the basics,.

When i said "no matter how much you are earning" i meant more in it doesnt matter if you are lucky enough to be earning $200K or $500K, you still shouldn't be having almost half of what you earn at some stage take from you, its just not fair its basically just legal theft so can totally understand how those people go to great efforts to find ways to reduce tax they pay.

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Craig's picture
Craig Tuesday, 24 Aug 2021 at 8:45pm

Don't you think people earning $200-500k should be using some of that wealth to put back into the community etc by taxes Indo? It's not going to bother them that much if they earn that much.. And if it does then they need a bit of a reality check re spending on things they don't need.

indo-dreaming's picture
indo-dreaming's picture
indo-dreaming Tuesday, 24 Aug 2021 at 9:03pm
Craig wrote:

Don't you think people earning $200-500k should be using some of that wealth to put back into the community etc by taxes Indo? It's not going to bother them that much if they earn that much.. And if it does then they need a bit of a reality check re spending on things they don't need.

100% they should but just not at rates so high, like i said i dont know a heap about it, i dont know how other countries do things, but could imagine if there was a system where everyone paid 20% and it was made much harder to reduce tax, you would possibly earn a similar amount as people wouldn't go to so much effort to reduce tax because its a more reasonable rate.

I dont think just because people earn a lot more they should pay tax at much higher percentage rate, as they will always pay a lot more tax anyway because they earn a lot more.

The real problem though is not money raised, it's more how money is spent its just misspent, but you see this problem at all levels council, state, federal

I just watched this video on the montague bridge in Melb, the ones Trucks always get stuck under and they spent 800K on some rubber warning things, it's just crazy...but like i said you see at every level, i see it with my local council too.

JQ's picture
JQ's picture
JQ Tuesday, 24 Aug 2021 at 9:06pm
indo-dreaming wrote:

It's pointless giving VL a reply as is just a complete tosser.

But thanks Craig, but i know full well how the tax system works.

Moving the tax free threshold from memory 13k to 18k was one of the best things Labor did

Once you reach 180K people still pay 45% on every dollar earnt after that sure you can look at it all evening out, but thats not reality, the reality is you are still having 45c of every dollar taken from you, im never going to have that problem but god it must suck.

I just agree with VL that the rates are too high and just encourage high income earners to try to avoid paying tax.

I'm with you Indo, it must be just horrible to pull in $180k+

The old 'tax rates are too high, it encourages tax avoidance' argument is just nonsense though, an argument that can and will be restated pretty much regardless of the tax rate.

Those who reap the greatest rewards from the complex structure that society creates should be expected to pay more for its upkeep.

That said, I'd much rather see the tax brackets stretched out a bit, indexed to inflation and then new ones added for the super wealthy. People pulling down millions a year should be heavily taxed.

Vic Local's picture
Vic Local's picture
Vic Local Tuesday, 24 Aug 2021 at 9:21pm

JQ, I'd like to see low income tax rates indexed to inflation but not the CPI. The index should be on a basket of essential goods and services that low income earners have to use.