The United States(!) of A
Take the position you held in regards to the potential links between Russia and Trump & the Trump campaign. For a very very long time you mimicked what the right wing media were saying - labeling it a 'hoax'.
There may not be sufficient evidence to prove collusion, but there's loads to demonstrate that it's no hoax.
indo-dreaming wrote:I think there is scepticism towards the election results not so much because that's Trumps angle but just because it's so obvious there was media and other powerful forces like social media that really didn't want Trump reelected and virtually would do anything to ensure he didn't get re-elected.
Just look at how Trump was cancelled from social media a tool that was quite powerful too him in getting his message out there, and then you have the censoring of Hunter Biden story by social media and media.
If it had been Trumps son and not Bidens, do you honestly think social media would have banned the story?
Off course not, it would have been front page news.
Indo, fox news turned down the Hunter Biden laptop story. Can you explain how that fits your theory?
Also, Trump was banned from social media after the election - please explain to me how this effects the election. Was he even banned from any platforms prior to Jan 6 (after the election fyi)? From what I can see all the bans took place after Jan 6.
While you're at it, perhaps you could give me your opinion on the dangers to democracy that arise from the leader of a country deliberately and without evidence undermining the public faith in its electoral process and refusing to accept the results of said election.
JQ -" Take the position you held in regards to the potential links between Russia and Trump & the Trump campaign. For a very very long time you mimicked what the right wing media were saying - labeling it a 'hoax'."
It has recently been proven it was a hoax . You are way behind the times . The Clintons fabricated the story , the FBI knew it was a hoax and they went after him anyway .
Clintons lawyer has been charged .
Your understanding of this issue is woefully poor Hutchy. Miles off the mark.
Fair call on the social media ban date, was listening to an interview the other day and somebody mentioned it, maybe i misinterpreted what was said.
Why didn't they cover Hunter Biden's laptop?
Well...
https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2020-election/here-s-what-happened-when...
"...But the Wall Street Journal and Fox News — among the only news organizations that have been given access to key documents — found that the emails and other records don’t make that case. Leaving aside the many questions about their provenance, the materials offered no evidence that Joe Biden played any role in his son’s dealings in China, let alone profited from them, both news organizations concluded..."
So reliable even Fox didn't want a piece...
Further:
"...An NBC News correspondent sent a letter two weeks ago to Giuliani, seeking copies of the materials.
His lawyer, Robert Costello, granted the correspondent the opportunity to review some Hunter Biden emails and other materials in person. The materials included copies of Hunter Biden identification documents that appeared to be genuine. But without taking possession of the copies, it was not possible to conduct the sort of forensic analysis that might help authenticate the emails and documents...."
So to run that story, at that time, would have meant relying on Rudy Giuliani's word. This is not a good move for anyone looking to retain a shred of credibility.
And in addition, Hunter Biden's activities had already been covered, the media wasn't ignoring them, they just didn't cover it at a politically opportune time for Trump
https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2019/07/08/will-hunter-biden-jeopardi...
It was banned or heavily restricted on Facebook and Twitter.
"Hunter Biden New York Post story being blocked on Facebook and Twitter draws ire of Donald Trump"
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-10-15/why-twitter-blocked-a-new-york-po...
Anyway it all came to mind because i read this the other day, this topic is more Sypkan's speciality though.
"The Hunter Biden Email Cover-Up Is a Scandal"
The Hunter Biden email cover-up may not be the most contemptible example of the modern political media’s corruption, but it is probably the most demonstrable.
Politico reports today that Ben Schreckinger’s new book, The Bidens: Inside the First Family’s Fifty-Year Rise to Power, corroborates much of the New York Post’s pre-election reporting on Hunter Biden’s emails. Two of them stick out: The first is a 2015 missive from a Ukrainian businessman thanking Hunter for the chance to meet Joe Biden — then, still vice president. The second is a 2017 email in which a proposed equity breakdown of a venture with Chinese energy executives included the line, “10 held by H for the big guy?” A Swedish government agency and two people who corresponded directly with Hunter also confirmed the emails.
Of course, the New York Post story already had more substantiation than the histrionic and fallacious Russia-collusion scoops the nation had been subjected to for four years. The Post had reported, in great detail, how it had physically obtained Hunter’s laptop. They had interviewed the owner of the Delaware computer shop where Hunter had abandoned his computer. They had Hunter’s signature on a receipt. The Post had on-the-record sources with intimate knowledge of Hunter’s interactions. And later, the emails were authenticated by forensic specialists.
Yet virtually the entire censorious journalistic establishment, with the help of tech giants, attempted to limit the story’s exposure by banning it outright, creating the impression that it didn’t meet proper journalistic standards or that it had been planted by Russian spooks. Schreckinger’s own publication ran a piece headlined “Hunter Biden story is Russian disinfo,” written by one of journalism’s leading Russia-collusion fabulists, Natasha Bertrand. The usual suspects, such as Ken Dilanian, suddenly wrote process stories about how they were hamstrung by Republicans. Vox called the Post’s story “nonsense” and asked alleged journalism professor Jay Rosen, the kind of partisan shill that’s been destroying the industry, whether he agreed that progress had been made by sinking the piece before the election. The Washington Post and others “fact-checked” the story with a degree of professional scrutiny they rarely apply to themselves."
Continued : https://www.nationalreview.com/2021/09/the-hunter-biden-email-cover-up-i...
Why do you think Fox chose not to publish it?
I put it to you, that for Foxnews not to publish a story favourable to Trump during an election period, they must have considered it exceptionally weak.
"Take the position you held in regards to the potential links between Russia and Trump & the Trump campaign. For a very very long time you mimicked what the right wing media were saying - labeling it a 'hoax'.
There may not be sufficient evidence to prove collusion, but there's loads to demonstrate that it's no hoax."
mate, it took a lot more than right wing media before I was confident enough to call it s hoax
one had to dig a little deeper, but the sussness was there long before mueller confirmed it
"Indo, fox news turned down the Hunter Biden laptop story. Can you explain how that fits your theory?"
so what are you suggesting?
it is russian misinformation?
the laptop is a hoax?
"While you're at it, perhaps you could give me your opinion on the dangers to democracy that arise from the leader of a country deliberately and without evidence undermining the public faith in its electoral process and refusing to accept the results of said election."
while you're at it... perhaps you could give your opinion how it is ok for the clinton campaign to... 'deliberately and without evidence undermining the public faith in its electoral process and refusing to accept the results of said election' ...and now you're all upset about trump?
for four years mind you... they never accepted the legitimacy of the election of trump... some of you are still unbelievably peddling the russian line / lie...
sypkan wrote:"Indo, fox news turned down the Hunter Biden laptop story. Can you explain how that fits your theory?"
so what are you suggesting?
it is russian misinformation?
the laptop is a hoax?
Go on sypkan, juuust a little further mate, I can see the foundations of your strawman. Go on, you can do it!
indo-dreaming wrote:I think there is scepticism towards the election results not so much because that's Trumps angle but just because it's so obvious there was media and other powerful forces like social media that really didn't want Trump reelected and virtually would do anything to ensure he didn't get re-elected........
This from our learned correspondent who needs a “media basis” website to tell him Murdoch is right leaning and therefore has no issue with the way the Murdoch media promotes the LNP agenda while turning a blind eye to all their rorts, lies, scandals, coverups and mal-administration in govt. Nothing to see here in Australia but the media had it in for Trump.
it's a pretty straight forward question mate...
well three... but they only require one decent answer
let's not flap around the bushes, get to the crux of it...
GuySmiley wrote:indo-dreaming wrote:I think there is scepticism towards the election results not so much because that's Trumps angle but just because it's so obvious there was media and other powerful forces like social media that really didn't want Trump reelected and virtually would do anything to ensure he didn't get re-elected........
This from our learned correspondent who needs a “media basis” website to tell him Murdoch is right leaning and therefore has no issue with the way the Murdoch media promotes the LNP agenda while turning a blind eye to all their rorts, lies, scandals, coverups and mal-administration in govt. Nothing to see here in Australia but the media had it in for Trump.
https://m.
well indo is spot on... for all his amateaurhourish-ness...
ffs, even jack darcy conceded they overstepped the mark!
it was a disgraceful corruption of process at a minimum
you got anything of substance guysmiley?
ever...
you used to...
sypkan wrote:"While you're at it, perhaps you could give me your opinion on the dangers to democracy that arise from the leader of a country deliberately and without evidence undermining the public faith in its electoral process and refusing to accept the results of said election."
while you're at it... perhaps you could give your opinion how it is ok for the clinton campaign to... 'deliberately and without evidence undermining the public faith in its electoral process and refusing to accept the results of said election' ...and now you're all upset about trump?
for four years mind you... they never accepted the legitimacy of the election of trump... some of you are still unbelievably peddling the russian line / lie...
I guess you missed the part where Obama went to Trumps inauguration, something Trump didn't have the moral fortitude to do himself when the tables were turned mind you.
Here's Joe Biden certifying Trumps election:
https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/congress/despite-objections-congress-ce...
Here's Obama handing over the presidency to Trump:
https://www.dw.com/en/obama-cites-excellent-conversation-with-trump-in-f...
Here's Hillary Clinton's concession speech:
https://time.com/4564480/read-hillary-clintons-concession-speech-full-tr...
"...Last night, I congratulated Donald Trump and offered to work with him on behalf of our country. I hope that he will be a successful president for all Americans. This is not the outcome we wanted or we worked so hard for and I’m sorry that we did not win this election for the values we share and the vision we hold for our country...."
Here's the DNC statement on the results of the 2016 election:
"...We urge President-elect Trump to put the divisive rhetoric that guided his campaign aside and stick to the pledge he laid out in his victory speech last night to unite the country. After this fierce campaign, now is the time for leaders from both parties to strive in good-faith to bridge our deep political divides, and work together in service to our one United States of America...."
https://democrats.org/news/dnc-statement-on-the-outcome-of-2016-elections/
Here's a statement from Nancy Pelosi shortly after Trumps election win:
https://www.speaker.gov/newsroom/pelosi-statement-on-2016-election
"...As President-elect Trump indicated last night, investing in infrastructure is an important priority of his. We can work together to quickly pass a robust infrastructure jobs bill. Our first responsibility is to protect and defend the American people; we must do so in a manner that is strong and smart, and that honors the sacrifices of our men and women in uniform.
“I congratulate President-elect Trump and his family, and pray for his success...."
I guess for the professionally aggrieved, none of that constitutes an acceptance of Trump as president. But for anyone with even a modicum of objectivity, it's pretty clear.
Here's evidence of Russian interference in the US election:
https://www.intelligence.senate.gov/sites/default/files/documents/Report...
Now the above link is pretty hard to digest and is pretty heavily redacted, but wikipedia provides a reasonable summary.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_interference_in_the_2016_United_St...
Here's a Russian national whose been charged in relation to election interference:
https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/russian-project-lakhta-member-charged-wir...
Here's a 37 page indictment of 12 Russian nationals in relation to election interference:
https://www.justice.gov/file/1035477/download
An excerpt:
"...Defendant ORGANIZATION had a strategic goal to sow discord in the U.S. political
system, including the 2016 U.S. presidential election. Defendants posted derogatory information
about a number of candidates, and by early to mid-2016, Defendants’ operations included
supporting the presidential campaign of then-candidate Donald J. Trump (“Trump Campaign”) and
disparaging Hillary Clinton. Defendants made various expenditures to carry out those activities,
including buying political advertisements on social media in the names of U.S. persons and
entities. Defendants also staged political rallies inside the United States, and while posing as U.S.
grassroots entities and U.S. persons, and without revealing their Russian identities and
ORGANIZATION affiliation, solicited and compensated real U.S. persons to promote or disparage
candidates. Some Defendants, posing as U.S. persons and without revealing their Russian
association, communicated with unwitting individuals associated with the Trump Campaign and
with other political activists to seek to coordinate political activities. ..."
Here's a 29 page indictment of 11 Russian nationals in relation to having of Democratic party computers:
https://www.justice.gov/file/1080281/download
An excerpt:
"...3. Starting in at least March 2016, the Conspirators used a variety of means to hack the email
accounts of volunteers and employees of the U.S. presidential campaign of Hillary Clinton (the
“Clinton Campaign”), including the email account of the Clinton Campaign’s chairman. 4. By in or around April 2016, the Conspirators also hacked into the computer networks of
the Democratic Congressional Campaign Committee (“DCCC”) and the Democratic National
Committee (“DNC”). The Conspirators covertly monitored the computers of dozens of DCCC
and DNC employees, implanted hundreds of files containing malicious computer code
(“malware”), and stole emails and other documents from the DCCC and DNC. 5. By in or around April 2016, the Conspirators began to plan the release of materials stolen
from the Clinton Campaign, DCCC, and DNC. ..."
So there's some evidence for you Sypkan. So what you've said there, 'without evidence' is a ridiculous lie, really stupid, even by your standards.
Here's a fact check of the final lie in your post:
https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2020/nov/24/jody-hice/did-democrat...
sypkan wrote:"Indo, fox news turned down the Hunter Biden laptop story. Can you explain how that fits your theory?"
so what are you suggesting?
it is russian misinformation?
the laptop is a hoax?
What am I suggesting? - Merely that at the time, the story was not reliable, to publish it meant relying on Rudy Guiliani's word, which has proven to be absolute shite.
Is it Russian misinformation? - Wouldn't have a clue.
The laptop is a hoax? - Also, no idea.
What's your theory on why Fox didn't want it? TDS?
but where's the collusion?
any normal person accepts russia did their best to interfere in the election, any normal person accepts that china and the US do exactly the same, it's the game, they're all at it...
what about four years of 'the resistance'?
bona fide democrat representatives that never let go
the russia russia russia... the pee tape... the kompramat... the banks... the loans...
it was all a fabrication...
and even when mueller couldn't find a single thing resembling collusion... (which truly is the most surprising thing of all...) ...the narrative continued... it's still going on now, for some...
even as clinton and steele get exposed as the true conspirators...
with minimal media coverage...
again...
the true story buried, while the 'conspiracy' got endless hourly coverage for four years or more
it's next level corruption of process
and it's bloody dangerous, for a host of reasons
"What am I suggesting? - Merely that at the time, the story was not reliable, to publish it meant relying on Rudy Guiliani's word, which has proven to be absolute shite."
not really, it seems the fbi knew exactly what was going on, but they were part of the problem... if journalists did their job, it wouldn't have been that difficult to confirm
"Is it Russian misinformation? - Wouldn't have a clue.
The laptop is a hoax? - Also, no idea."
well your one of the few nutty ones still holding onto this line, as I said, even jack darcy has conceded it's legit
the biden's don't even deny it ffs
"What's your theory on why Fox didn't want it? TDS?"
fox isn't as simple a one eyed organisation as many like to conveniently portray it as, especially regarding trump... there's plenty of never trumpers in there... and I dare say the fbi influence also played a role
Sypkan - you are a shameless liar.
Mueller found plenty of things - he indicted a bunch of people close to Trump
https://time.com/5556331/mueller-investigation-indictments-guilty-pleas/
No, he didn't find enough to prove collusion - but that is NOT what we are talking about here. I have never said or made the argument that there was collusion. You have, how ever, called it a 'hoax' I have provided literal reams of evidence to the contrary.
Not to mention the efforts made by Trump and his associates to obstruct the investigation (which constituted most of the indictments for his associates), which no doubt hindered Muellers ability to gather evidence.
What about Russia Russia Russia - yeah exactly, as I showed and mentioned before, there was and is loads of evidence.
Minimal media coverage of the Clinton lawyer being indicted??
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2021/sep/16/michael-sussmann-clinton...
https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/lawyer-firm-represented-clinton-campaign...
https://www.reuters.com/world/us/us-grand-jury-indicts-lawyer-who-repres...
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-58591969
There's 4 major news outlets covering it, less than 3 minutes of searching.
Is it embarrassing for you how easily you are manipulated by grievance peddlers? As an adult it should be, it really should be. It's really goddamn pathetic.
sypkan wrote:"What am I suggesting? - Merely that at the time, the story was not reliable, to publish it meant relying on Rudy Guiliani's word, which has proven to be absolute shite."
not really, it seems the fbi knew exactly what was going on, but they were part of the problem... if journalists did their job, it wouldn't have been that difficult to confirm
"Is it Russian misinformation? - Wouldn't have a clue.
The laptop is a hoax? - Also, no idea."
well your one of the few nutty ones still holding onto this line, as I said, even jack darcy has conceded it's legit
the biden's don't even deny it ffs
"What's your theory on why Fox didn't want it? TDS?"
fox isn't as simple a one eyed organisation as many like to conveniently portray it as, especially regarding trump... there's plenty of never trumpers in there... and I dare say the fbi influence also played a role
How can journalists do their job is Guiliani wouldn't provide the material for them to check it appropriately?
Holding on to what line? That I don't know? What an insane wild partisan position. I genuinely don't know, I haven't spent hours reading about it.
"Sypkan - you are a shameless liar.
Mueller found plenty of things - he indicted a bunch of people close to Trump"
mate, it was a pretty lame rap sheet for the extent and scope of the investigation...
they found a couple of hackers guilty of incompetence basically
collusion was the call
the investigation was extensive and outrageous, and they nailed a coupla hackers...
One man’s substance is another’s BS. I don’t need to engage here to know how I feel about Trump, America and it’s ingrained inequity, it’s failed economic model and its blundering foreign policy. In truth, like so many other things I just hope I’m long gone before the excesses are all played out.
mate, the only thing that is pathetic, is that you cannot appreciate the clinton scandal would have rolling 24 hour media coverage if the players were reversed
"How can journalists do their job is Guiliani wouldn't provide the material for them to check it appropriately?
Holding on to what line? That I don't know? What an insane wild partisan position. I genuinely don't know, I haven't spent hours reading about it."
the real story is the fbi spreading the russian misinformation lie
that's where the journalists should be doing their job
sypkan wrote:mate, the only thing that is pathetic, is that you cannot appreciate the clinton scandal would have rolling 24 hour media coverage if the players were reversed
I guess that's what your false grievance narrative directs you to believe.
I assume this is as close as we are going to get to you admitting that you are a shameless liar and Trump-russia is no hoax and the Democrats did acknowledge Trumps election win.
You really are 110% committed to the narrative aren't you Sypkan.
Trump lovers should just move to the US where they could join in the latest madness.
https://www.pedestrian.tv/news/save-australia-protests/
BB - we missed our chance as Biden is now in charge .
As you correctly point out he has created ( and I don't want to join ) the "latest madness ".
Because you love Trudeau , does that mean you are moving to Canada ?
The US ISM survey was a better than expected and very strong 61.9 and there were very consistent themes:
Labour shortages , supply chain disruptions , increasing raw material costs and materials hard to source .
Inflation may be transitory , but transitory may be a VERY long time .
"I guess that's what your false grievance narrative directs you to believe.
I assume this is as close as we are going to get to you admitting that you are a shameless liar and Trump-russia is no hoax and the Democrats did acknowledge Trumps election win.
You really are 110% committed to the narrative aren't you Sypkan.
geez you're going hard with this shameless liar bullshit. ...the shameless liars are the democrats and the american media that for four years denied trump was a legitimately elected president
the shameless liar is hilary clinton who started the russian collusion brianfart the moment she lost the election, because she couldn't accept she was such a corrupted woeful candidate she lost to a buffoonish reality tv gangster...
the shameless liars are the fbi and various other government agencies, who have done everything within their powers and beyond to subvert the course of democracy
the shamess liars are the rachel maddows, and the whole team at cnn, who talk a lot like you... despite a massive years long government wide investigation, with pretty much the whole establishment media / government / dark money apparatus on side, desperately trying to find something, anything... on trump... and only struggling to find some dismal petty charges on some dismal petty players...
it was a bloody shambles in terms of results, not least because it's the criminal donald trump we're talking about, combined with years and years of hyperbolic 'bombshells' and 'walls closing in' ... only to come up with the biggest nothingburger ever... a nothingburger with a steaming pile of shit next to it that no one wanted to look at, ...and anyone that did was gaslit, belittled and labelled a conspiracist etc.
again...
only to be proven correct...
again...
it was a shameless incredible waste of resources and public good will, that served little purpose beyond a bit of therapy for bunch of shattered sky screamers who couldn't accept reality...
but yeh mate, you keep going with that narrative...
donny would be proud...
donny lemon that is...
GuySmiley wrote:indo-dreaming wrote:I think there is scepticism towards the election results not so much because that's Trumps angle but just because it's so obvious there was media and other powerful forces like social media that really didn't want Trump reelected and virtually would do anything to ensure he didn't get re-elected........
This from our learned correspondent who needs a “media basis” website to tell him Murdoch is right leaning and therefore has no issue with the way the Murdoch media promotes the LNP agenda while turning a blind eye to all their rorts, lies, scandals, coverups and mal-administration in govt. Nothing to see here in Australia but the media had it in for Trump.
I use media bias check website to show a non bias view of where certain media sits otherwise people like you, write off any media links they dont agree with as far right-wing and questionable, while claiming the media links you provide are without bias and sit in the centre.
You obviously dont like me exposing that.
Anyone else see the irony of American christian conservative voters from those rust belt states supporting Trump and his political movements dangerous drift to fascism especially as it flies in the face of the values their religious beliefs “should” be and the the military service history of their communities fighting fascism in WW2?
Smiley - Are you trying to deflect ? That is the irony here today .
Hutchy 19 wrote:Smiley - Are you trying to deflect ? That is the irony here today .
Huh? You think Trump and his movement is something other than fascist in nature? Wow, I didn’t realise here in AU believed his batshit.
Smiley - here in Oz as in America a lot of people thought Trump had SOME good ideas . Not everyone listens to the media and believes it . It might surprise you but we take the time to see what they really say and do . You probably think this is strange but it is true . You need to get out of your small circle .
Hutchy 19 wrote:Smiley - here in Oz as in America a lot of people thought Trump had SOME good ideas . Not everyone listens to the media and believes it . It might surprise you but we take the time to see what they really say and do . You probably think this is strange but it is true . You need to get out of your small circle .
Hutchy - care to name a few. I'll start the ball rolling:
1) Buying Greenland for strategic reasons.
2) ??
Not sure if a good idea has ever come out of a far right political movement* so please enlighten us hutchy ....
* when the Republican Party (already further to the right than it ever been given the Tea Party influence) bypassed it’s regular ultra conservative nominees to put forward Trump as its presidential candidate the last vestiges of creditability were lost .... what was predicted played out and a lot more.
China trade war , getting Nato to pay their way , trying to build a wall , not starting a real war , promoting US business and thereby creating jobs especially for Blacks , unravelling the mess of Obama Care , trying to do what he promised ( very new approach ) , being consistent and not pretending to be one thing and then doing the opposite ( think Rudd ) , speeding up the delivery of covid vaxes and that's only Trump in 4 years .
What did Obama do in 8 years other than read well off a teleprompter ?
Lots of other good ideas out of the right .
"Lots of other good ideas out of the right ."....but nothing that comes to mind just now?
Ask for enlightenment get bewilderment WTF
The most important idea of the right is Capitalism which is really just economic freedom hence why goes hand in hand so well with democracy.
"Lots of other good ideas out of the right ."....but nothing that comes to mind just now?
Private ownership?
indo-dreaming wrote:The most important idea of the right is Capitalism which is really just economic freedom hence why goes hand in hand so well with democracy.
or not!
Capitalism only works with a socialist backstop ...when there's recessions/depressions Govt's have to intervene with Govt money......Capitalism allows lobby groups that put the profit first to control Governments.
Private ownership probably predates any political system that we would recognise. As for capitalism the mainstream view is that it was just a formalisation of natural behaviour related to trade. More to the point, in both cases, is that you are going a long way back. Economic freedom is more accurately laissez-faire since virtually all capitalist economies have had some degree of regulation.
For the sake of truth and accuracy can you please distinguish between right-wing politics and that of the far to extreme right the republicans have become over the last decade under the influence of the Tea Party and Trump.
Excuse me for pointing it out but there is a world of difference.
the right don't need good ideas, they are 'conserving' the status quo by definition
the problem is, it seems the left are all out of good ideas too, hence the current political shitstorm...
apart from renewable energy, which as an influential idea is probably about 30 years old, i honestly cannot think of any good ideas the left have had since...
that's some slow-mo progression
they're in suspended animation
the right don't need good ideas, they are 'conserving' the status quo by definition
the problem is, it seems the left are all out of good ideas too, hence the current political shitstorm...
apart from renewable energy, which as an influential idea is probably about 30 years old, i honestly cannot think of any good ideas the left have had since...
that's some slow-mo progression
they're in suspended animation
" the right don't need good ideas"
Well that's a stroke of luck seeing no-one has yet been able to demonstrate that they have ever had one. You also seem to be confusing right wing politics with conservatism when right-wing governments are anything but. They interfere in markets (fossil fuel subsidies) change financial regulations and tax regimes (negative gearing, franking credits). They also have massively increased security legislation reducing our legal rights and virtually destroyed our right to privacy. Conservative, in a pig's arse!
BB - "seem to be confusing right wing politics with conservatism when right-wing governments are anything but."
My view of right wing politics is definitely conservative . That is why in Australia the right is called the conservative party . You need to watch the ABC .
I mistakenly forgot to mention Trumps GREATEST achievement . He kept Hillary and Bill out of the White House .
Hillary would make Biden appear to be wonderful . I am sure that Bill and his mates like Epstein and Harvey would have thought the WH would be a wonderful location for their parties .
The policies of the current government are based on neoliberalism, but call them whstever you like. We often don't know what you are talking about anyway, so no great loss to add a little more confusion into the mix.
Septic Tanks are going to Septic Tank