Interesting stuff

the rubber will hit the road when it comes to the big events.

China taking the right steps, Australia?

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2020/mar/11/australian-grand-prix-thre...

Wally, I've been listening to Norman Swans excellent daily podcast about corona virus.
he mentions the differing fatality rates in different countries.

v.low in South Korea, v.high in Italy.

https://www.geelongadvertiser.com.au/news/geelong/geelongs-first-coronav...

there goes the neighbourhood

surfcoast crew, heads up

And the thursday prior was manic there, the Ms drove past it and no way was she going in. This was at the crescendo of the toilet paper wars.

10 years ago the fashion at Ponds was trakkie dacks and uggies, I scoffed at it then, but now I am nostalgic for that look. Pyjamas on occasion. It was a more simple age.

Joe Rogan Michael Osterholm Infectious disease expert - How serious is Corona Virus - Utube
15 mins taken from #1439

Damn Blowin that was a fine spray. One of them got a similar letter from me when grom, on his first paper round at 13, suddenly was solicited with an 18K personal loan...
.

blow in, on the piss again?

And threatening violence?

I guess being a subscriber cuts you slack on here, which is a polite way of saying when you bleat, they listen, but...

In reality, you couldn't and wouldn't knock the froth of a cappuccino. All mouth and trousers is your vibe.

And as the meme goes, "prove me wrong".

Great call Udo.
Good to see Joe Rogan sourcing someone like that.

"They had faith in us because we told them the truth."

Novel idea.

No probs, Gloria.

And one for the deeply ignorant and/or Joe Rogan demographic.

This made Joe a believer.

And check the comments on there from his cohort!

Sadly, to no avail it seems.

Forget about Joe Rogan, judge his guest instead.

Michael T. Osterholm is an American public health scientist and a biosecurity and infectious disease expert.[1]
Osterholm is the director of the Center for Infectious Disease Research and Policy (CIDRAP) at the University of Minnesota and a Regents Professor, the McKnight Presidential Endowed Chair in Public Health, a Distinguished Teaching Professor in the Division of Environmental Health Sciences, School of Public Health, a professor in the Technological Leadership Institute, College of Science and Engineering, and an adjunct professor in the University of Minnesota Medical School,[2] all at the University of Minnesota.

Gee whiz, Blowin.
You created this thread with the opening manifesto.
“Talking points worthy of further discussion without devolving into insult.”

Wow! Major league creepy projection, blow in.

Again.

And yes, check Rogan's surprise (?) about what Sanders is all about. It's touching in its naivete. Bless.

And the comments on there from his base!

And worthy!

Yet, sadly, to no avail it seems.

ABC WA (Perth) , conversation about future planning and possible (re probable) event cancellations in WA , football games played to empty stadiums, calling off already of some big crowd events , the HBF fun run of some description etc, the wsl event was mentioned as a possible being effected as contestants travel constantly (fingers crossed if not the Margs event id say Gland will be for sure - might save her for one more year before the vultures swoop ). All public servants and school groups banned from overseas travel (which will include the Australian based medical team that was lined up for Gland), pretty much the general virus news but the first wsl mention ive seen or heard thus far

Italy could be worse case scenario, the rapid spread of virus aided with the Italian habit of greeting friends, colleagues and family with a kiss. National quarantine was the only option.

yeah, thanks Mike, I found that story.

So it’s Dr. Blowin?

Great video Steve re the exponential growth.

The reason naming matters, blowin, is because not everyone is as smart and as well informed as you. Like you have so humbly pointed out to stu, people don't have things explained to them properly and the flip side of that is that they are affected by messaging.

Not you of course, you keep yourself so informed of everything that you're on another level and your words are only to be taken at face value.

But since others aren't so astute, you find dumb cunts hassling, bashing and boycotting Chinese people and businesses. Because they think people from China carry this infection because it's from there. I mean, it's right there in the name! Or it should be. But they don't understand the pathology like you do.

So you see, while it's totally not racist to want so desperately to tie this disease to the place it evolved, doing so can fuck things up for a lot of innocent people because so many don't get the full message. And I know you understand that because you explained it so well to stu. The poor people of Australia voted for neoliberalism because they just didn't understand like you do. The poor unfortunates.

So yeah, carry on with your conspiracy theories, and carry on thinking the population of China aren't oppressed (they're free!). But remember there's a lot of dumb people out there who aren't as informed as you, and they don't understand your subtle nuances.

#totallynotracistjustalwayssayingthingsthatracistpeoplesay
PS. Every visited Dipther or Whoop or Tubercule or SAR? No I didn't think so. Such a long history of naming conventions...

thats terrible.

Just for context 2009 H1N1 (swine) flu pandemic killed 575 400 people world wide and was most lethal to people under 60.
ie mostly affected young people.

60.8million cases in US alone.

"Stunet thinks that the capture of Australian politics is due to the inherent conservatism and greed of the Aussie public"

You spit it out like it's an insult when it's simply a matter of fact.

If a country gets to vote between, say, a very conservative government and a less conservative government, with many leftish minor parties, and they consistently vote the more conservative party into power, then you can spin it any which way but the truth is they're getting the party they want.

It may not be the case in your echo chamber, and it's definetely not the case in mine, but then I wouldn't be so presumptuous as to project my values over the whole country.

From my vantage point, you're blaming the population for not understanding politics. So what's the next thing you're gonna blame them for, Mussolini? Here's an idea! Maybe just take the vote away from them altogether. Philistines who shouldn't be trusted with democracy...

As for greed, well, if you're an old Labor hack you'd have heard the saying, "always back the horse called self-interest?" It's the same dynamic that guides the market's invisible hand, the same force that propels the whole damn mechanism:

"It is not from the benevolence of the butcher, the brewer, or the baker that we expect our dinner, but from their regard to their own interest."

The Australian public did what all classical economists expected them to. Nothing dismissive or guilt-ridden about it, just human behaviour. They were offered something and they took it. And there lives were better for it. When, a few years later, it was shown to them what those costs were, they still acted in self-interest, and despite AndyM's defence of public apathy around S11, he's wrong: the Greens had Saint Bob at the helm and where never more popular, and the public didn't have "decades of union bashing" they had at best four years, with Work Choices still to come. It's just more head in the sand stuff.

A digression on a Thursday morning...

A lifetime ago I used to follow the Cronulla Sharks. Was a member for a few years, watched every home game, "Get 'em onside, ref!" etc etc... But back then the Sharks were a shit team. Never won. So when it came time to fill out the work footy tips I regularly tipped against them. People used to put shit on me for that, but I could never understand why. My heart wanted them to win, but my head said they wouldn't, and I wasnt gonna throw away the tipping comp on dewy-eyed sentiment.

The Sharks are the Australian public. I want them to be more left, wished they held similar values to myself, preferred it if they didn't always choose self-interest...but the sheer fact of the matter is they aren't that team, and it would be foolish of me to go on wishing them to be something they're not. Unlike you, I see them for what they are and I still love them.

It's a shit simile, footy and politics, but there's some truth to it: I'd rather be totally clear-eyed about things. Understand how things are, not how they should be.

When you arrive at that point, then you can plan a way forward.

Coronavirus officially Pandemic ...
Whats New!
Dutto's Reffo Tents Stimulus Package breathes new life into Oz recession Towns.
*Reusable Plastic Bags (Banned) tbb did tip off crew on that one!
*Reusable Coffee Cups (Binned)
Party Waves (No longer trending!)
Recycleable return goods Queue Jumper outbreak is hoped to end Bog Roll War..
Checkoutchick sacked for refusing Recyclable Toilet Paper Refund.

"All public servants and school groups banned from overseas travel (which will include the Australian based medical team that was lined up for Gland)"

Mike, the Doc and his 'nurse' not going?

Haha, I'll ask Nurse Ratshit today.

Blowin, bit facetious but another reason not to call it "Wuhan Flu" is that it's not actually a 'flu but an entirely different class of virus.

Been reading 'Upheaval' by Jared Diamond lately, the third in his trilogy that began with 'Guns, Germs, and Steel', then 'Collapse', and now this. If there's one salient point, one message that only the thick-as-a-fucken-brick could overlook, it's that rapid political change causes disruptions that reverberate far, far beyond politics and the people that suffer the most are the people who were initially to be helped.

Amongst many case studies, Diamond holds Australia up as a shining example of slow change, especially how we overcame post-war structural issues.

So two things...

No-one has yet proposed what a re-nationsalised, protectionist nation would look like. I'm theoretically for it, but I'm not so dewy-eyed to believe we can achieve that AND maintain our current standard of living. Where are the people explaining how they'd raise the additional taxes? Or what line of argument they'd use on the people to convince them a bigger government is necessary? How would they run the newly-formed public businesses in a market environment? How would we cope with the economic shocks - recession and all it entails - as the country shifts to another economic model?

Who is gonna convince the populace to take a hit, maybe a few hits, for the country?

Can someone point me in the direction of this debate? Some links, URL's etc etc?

As much as I want Australia to shift that way, I can't yet see it, and at the same time I'd also would be wary, knowing how raid change gets abused by power-mongers and people end up in a worse place than before. Hence, knowing exactly "how things are" beforehand.

So then, slow change, which is what Labor were bringing in at the last election: hitting the brakes on many of the neo-lib tools, curbing corporate plunder, redistributing wealth, raising corporate taxes, increasing public spending, but the Australian people, as it turned out, didn't want that.

You can say what you want about why Labor lost, but their policies were on the table, able to be read just as you and I could read them. Yeah, yeah, charisma-free Bill blah blah blah....like John Howard was fucking Errol Flynn. It's a flat out cop out.

At some point you have to appreciate that the people aren't fucking idiots and they got what they wanted. Labor's cards were on the table, the biggest change in a generation, the safest way to realise that change.....and the people didn't want it.

I still want change, still pushing for it, but I don't hear anyone arguing for reality, and anyway, the final say happens at the ballot box. If people don't trust democracy, then go live somewhere that the chosen few speak for the entire population - like China.

wuhan flu, which album of theirs is the best you reckon?

I liked their single 'Dance Hall Days'.

Gaby will be forced to apply his own anusol ! Event cancelled

The word from the Woz is no word.

Swellnet's own Deep Throat has an empty load.

There's Wu and then there's Wu!

damn you, zen, for putting that song in my head!

Here's a quote for y'all...
WHO director-general Dr. Tedros Adhanom Ghebreyesus: "We are deeply concerned both by the alarming levels of spread and severity and by the alarming levels of inaction."

And another quote, for the other topic:
"Don't put your trust in revolutions. They always come around again. That's why they're called revolutions. People die, and nothing changes." (Terry Pratchett, Night Watch).
I'd lean towards Stu's read that a slowly-slowly approach would be needed for anything to change without many being worse off; though I am admittedly naive when it comes to politics.

with the utmost respect stunet, you are doing exactly what facto does, ...blame the public because they didn't vote for his shit product

as andym pointed out, the average joe has little idea of the big econimic agenda that has been imposed on them from above. it has been imposed by stealth, a bit by bit chipping away at the valuable safety nets and social institutions that we once had, average joe is too busy working his arse off to maintain his palace of dreams, a palace that gives him some semblance of false satisfaction and feeling of winning to realise the bigger forces at play

the left haven't had an economic argument since god knows when. maybe hawke keating did, and prior to that, they literally were a bunch of 'commies' with an economic argument to suit, but now they've literally got nothing. they rolled over and accepted free market ideology, took the cash, and now they've got nothing. smoko's got nothing, he's an anomomally, but his side usually has something... no matter how shit...

because the left rolled over, conceded, capitulated, ...gave up. they focussed all their energies onto other stuff. we all know what...

this was all fine for a while, but when you put all your eggs in one basket you tend to miss the stuff on the peripheries, the not so squeaky wheels, the quiet ones ...stewing away, and now the left has been blindsided

worse, whilst all that cash was flowing, from deregulation and privatisation, the politically active were getting all that they wanted for quite some time. it was like a social cause christmas for a period, as ngo's sprung up everywhere and were showered with cash, in the neoliberalisation of what was once the governments work - social causes and the well being of the people

this all worked rather well for a period (any big change does- it moves the cash and creates opportunity) but now I would argue it has become counter productive, as a bunch of well meaning but not that bright (or ethical) people are entrenched in a private system of competition for survival. it has created some incredibly perverse outcomes like 60 odd, or something like that, different ngo's operating out of a two bit town like wilcania. 60 different organisations competing for browny points and contracts in a very small town. even if every single person of those 60 seperate operations had the bestest of best intentions, the human condition means there will not be the best outcomes from such dispersal and competition between resources.

this is just one example, this has happened right across the board, health, poverty, uni's, housing, disability etc. etc., .... the abortion that is ironically called 'the job network'.

then there is the corruption of the uni's, the proliferation of bullshit courses, the study for study's sake mentality (not all bad), the 'you can be whatever you wish' dogma (again, not all bad). the divisiveness of ip, combined with the massively widening economic gap, means that what is top priority for some, is totally meaningless and even offensive to others...

economics, and the people, were left to fare for themselves in a laissez-faire bunch of systems and ideologies

meanwhile, nut cases like facto, had to put all his socialist utopia yearning energy into the new game in town, ...identity politics, meaning he gave up on the initial globalisation resistance and became a useful idiot for globalisation version 2.0. all that zeal and energy had to go somewhere, so a bunch of zealots have developed a bunch of shit ideas in a vacuum thinking that will serve society well ....well....

it worked for a while, ...now, not so much...

the left needs an economic argument!!!!

that's why trump won in the us, yet the left there are stumbling down, staggering drunk down, the same old road

it also lead to brexit, yellow vests,, smoko, and the unrest in many countries across the world

it ain't the people, it's the shit sandwich they've been sold time and time again. a sandwich that was always shit for some, but now is just plain rotten...

average people don't know the microbioligy of a rotting shit sandwich, but they know it when they see it, not least because they can smell it...

WHO totally corrupted by china

it is the wuhan flu

naming convention makes it so

Totally. Swine flu, MERS, SARS, such a consistent naming convention.

That Spanish flu that didn't begin in Spain. Such consistency.

Oh wait...

why no fuss about the feelings of the people of the village called ebola?

because ebola village couldn't afford to buy WHO that's why....

don't be so fucking ignorant

WHO were called out ages ago for being bought by china, not just about names

more fucking weasal words from the neoliberal machine

wuhan flu it is

Labor wasn't helped by big Clive.

Total horseshit, sypkan.

Blaming the public...did you read my posts or just see them as another opportunity to burrow deeper into your own pre-conceived arguments?

I'm not 'blaming' anyone. I'm accepting of the fact that we collectively, and many times over, have voted a certain way, which is far and away the best means of gauging public sentiment. 

When, in 1999/2000 protestors resisted globalisation, the vast majority of people willed it on. Heard of flogging a dead horse? The will of the world was going one way, you can either fight forever and become bitter or you can accept change. Think the Dalai Lama has thing or two to say about that...

For people like you to say "they should've kept fighting" is, to be frank, a gutless comment. You weren't there, you don't know the costs, so it's all hindsight and value judgement to you. Forever right in your pulpit twenty years removed.

Moving on...

I'd also like things to change, however I don't yet see anything concrete...anything even remotely firm, being offered by the alternative press.

How about you stop with the exclamation points, and answer how, in as practical sense as possible, the questions I posed above.

For convenience I'll repeat them:

How would you convince the country to raise additional taxes? (as foreign investment slows and the govt grows the welfare state and increases public spending)
How would you convince them a bigger government is necessary?
How would you run the newly-formed public businesses in a market environment?
How should we cope with the economic shocks - recession and all it entails - as the country shifts to another economic model? (make no mistake, there will be blood - economic or otherwise)
Who is gonna convince the populace to take a hit, maybe a few hits, for the country?

Don't answer with the feelz, outline an argument with as much reliance on real world examples as possible, or human behaviour as we know it.

That, when completed, will be the "left's economic argument!!!!"

Aye, Flow.

Samantha Maiden has a lot to say about that. For the crew who keep banging on about Labor's mistakes, go and read her new book.