If I was on tour and got labeled the worlds greatest small wave surfer, I’d be pissed and embarrassed and have a point to prove. After being found wanting at Teahupo’o and now at the box...is Toledo better suited to a cat fanciers competition where the old ladies can stroke him? So, what’s the verdict? Pussy or not?
I think toledo surfed unreal in 2017 at mainbreak he really impressed me on the larger days with his style and power surfing, l quite like toledo except how he looks at the judges everyte he pulls an air . He was at Lakey peak before kremas this year and the general consensus was that he was pretty mellow and a good bloke in the water along with his traveling buddies which is unusual for most brazzos , he was even overhead talking about medina and how he hoped he didn’t turn up with his traveling circus. He may have struggled at the box but he’s far from a pussy in waves of consequence. He has really improved the last few seasons and it can’t be easy when you’re about 45kg ringing wet. I just hope brazil produces some decent waves as otherwise it’s extremely boring. I think the rivalry between aussies and brazzos is good and most get along well but of course there is dicks on both sides. Don’t think toledo cares if he’s labeled greatest small wave surfer , the guy usually tries his best.
Pussy is going a bit far but yeah certainly heavy hollow and very solid waves are an area he needs to improve in.
Getting a match up with Jack Robinson was just bad luck, even JJF would have had trouble against him at the Box.
Personally of all the Brazilians Toledo is my fav, just needs to really put some time into his areas of weakness.
If he spends a bit of time and has a crack at a few slabs I think he'll work it out.
Has the skills. I don't think he's a pussy.
I reckon it just hasn't clicked for him yet.
Definitely a pussy. You see it all the time at your local level. Theres pussys with no talent and they just suck. There’s pussys with heaps of talent and totally rip but are always absent on the bigger days, there’s chargers who have no talent but will give it a go anyway, then there’s the elite, chargers with loads of talent, they’re the best. It is what it is. All of us fall into one of those four categories
Well, he looked pretty damn impressive taking those big drops at Bells on the day of the finals. Only JJF and Toledo were air dropping under a cascade of white water on 3x head, or bigger sets.
he pulled into some decent pits at the box and was humble talking about getting owned afterwards. he s no jack robbo and the big sucky stuff looks like a weakness for him but that doesn’t make him a pussy. i don’t think slater’s comment was a backhanded compliment, just a compliment. the greatest *anything* to have ever lived coming from the goat is not bad in an era when medina and jjf are at/near their peak
I don’t think a pussy would hoist airs as high as Filipe is willing to go. It’s dangerous. Airs cause more injuries than big waves for the top echelon. He must have persevered thru thousands of crash landings to get his air game.
Filipe will never be accused of charging too hard.
And this may not appear to matter superficially to his career.
He’s earning huge money and respect for his small wave wizardry. Why try harder ? Why put your body and career on the line just to silence the naysayers who aren’t happy with him just being the best sub-four foot wave rider in history ?
Because surfing isn’t just about performance. It’s also about dedication . And nothing says dedication more than throwing yourself over the ledge in heavy surf.
Think of those underground chargers who wouldn’t get a second glance in marginal conditions, yet who receive the highest levels of respect from the entire surfing world purely for their unwavering commitment. Think Camel.
Then think of how close Jadson Andre came to elevating beyond the air reverse/ nicest guy on tour tag , how close his relentless charging out at the box came to winning over everyone who’s ever dismissed his talents as shallow and two dimensional.
And think how he threw that love away by whinging about the conditions and the WSL , rather than holding his head high and demonstrating that the fans are worth the pain.
Cause let’s never forget that itsthe fans who pay the bills. Pro surfers are first and foremost entertainers. The love from the fans is what keeps them employed.
That’s why Filipe needs to step up. He needs to step out of his comfort zone if he ever wants the respect , the love and the money.
He’s got to start going if he ever wants the quan. A world champ without quan ......no one wants that.
Filipe needs to forget his Hurley support love-in and go on a camping trip with Koby Abberton to a heavy wave in an isolated location and learn to charge through osmosis.
Filipe - Help Koby help you
And being the best small wave surfer in the world is limiting yourself to a career spanning the time till the next leap in small wave techniques, which is usually a turn around of about 5 years . You know what happens then ?
blowin , sub 4 feet.....how big was the wave that he did those 2 x airs at J-Bay ....6'....probably one of the best waves ever surfed in competition history and solid J-Bay.
He made a final at Bells in solid surf , surfs Pipe and back door pretty good , and for people who call him a pussy, would love to see you out at the box/pipe or chopes , but then again you might be better than him, yeah right?
agree sharkman. for all the criticisms, filipe’s big carves are only matched/bettered by a few on tour
Seems to be that FT isn't afraid of heavy waves, and he also 'wants' it, a fact proven by his extended stays at Chopes, but it all comes down to him not being that great in the big stuff.
Some surfers are great all-rounders, and some, no matter how hard they try, aren't. At that level it's not enough to simply be good in big waves, you have to perform at the very outer reaches of the scale, and FT's not there.
Also, to Wally's point, go back and look at his 2018 air at Saquerema which shows another kind of ballsiness. There'd be skaters balking at that height and distance.
Blowy, Fellipe aint no ho-dad squidlips.
I’d rather surf Jaws naked, Switchfoot, and coming off a 3 day bender than go camping with Koby Abberton. Ughhh
Lets not also forget , it was only in their mid 20's that Parko and Mick went to Chopes and Cloudbreak to learn how to ride big barrels....at what age did they both become threats at Pipe and in Hawaii??
x 2 Goof.
and take a paper cut to the japs-eye for good measure.
Sharkman- If someone was paying me literally millions of dollars to surf , I had Filipe’s skill set , there was multiple rescue skis on hand and with thousands of people watching me dog sets whilst my professional peers had a go , then too right I’d take off.
Wouldn’t you ?
I wouldn’t be scoring zero heat totals at Chopes.
I’m no charger but I’m not paid to get stuck in. Filipe is. I don’t blame him for not wanting to , but its his job.
Blowin are you still stuck on that heat where Toledo hurt his arm and didn't catch a wave?
Good to know that you would be better than Toledo at the Box/Pipe/Chopes , because if you are not we could call you a kitten!
Are you a kitten, Blowin?
Hey , I don’t really give a fuck whether Toledo catches waves or not. That’s his business.
It’s up to him if he wants to be liable to be the butt of his competitors jokes. But he didn’t seem to enjoy Slater’s little dig at Keramas.
"Lets not also forget , it was only in their mid 20's that Parko and Mick went to Chopes and Cloudbreak to learn how to ride big barrels....at what age did they both become threats at Pipe and in Hawaii??"
I was thinking exactly the same thing the other day when read this thread, early days at Pipe they were like fish out of water.
I’m not bagging Toledo at all. I think he’s the worlds best surfer right now, all things considered. But there’s an unmistakable difference in surfers wanting it, when it’s at consequence. The Slater / Panda heat at the box was a good example. Slater wasn’t really surfing it well in the first half, but he wanted the sets. Cardoso clearly didn’t want them, to my surprise. Surely you’ve see Julian Wilson’s mad spinning eyes when Pipe is heaving? Well Toledo is the opposite of that
Does it really matter? Do all surfers have to love scary waves, or battle bravely to overcome their worst fears?
I think it's quite interesting and refreshing that some are really good in small waves, some are hellmen, some do a bit of both.
Fwiw, on Shoredump's scale, I'm the not very talented guy giving it a go, but there's heaps of room for improvement on both counts. Not sweating it, though.
yeah who cares cause the cream always rises to the top and very few people are good at everything.So i love watching him blow up in small to medium waves and i love watching him take on his own inner demons when its dangerous,but give him credit for what he does well.He ain't no pussy.
The takeoff at the box is often 'easy' when the swell direction is right, but still on maybe more than half of the waves, the roll-in isn't available. You can see that Jack Robbo knows it intuitively. I notice in the comps- its clear when someone hasn't spent time there & don't seem to be able to pick the roll-ins. There's plenty of wide ones which look & are un-makeable from the roll-in point. So they sit further down the line toward the worst & hollowest part of the wave & pay the price.
You may also remember that A.I. was shaking with fear and shit scared to throw himself over the edge at Chopes when he first surfed it and he was Hawaiian, grew up in waves of consequence. Look what happened to him, mastered the place.
A couple of lines of Bolivia's finest probably helped with those shakes Fitz.
I guess the difference with AI is that he went anyway though. Fil didnt.
Where does culture kick in...if at all?
Actually GF, Filipe went.
From Filipe’s instagram. Frame : @baronisfilms
Holy shit !
I’d like to tender a retraction of my earlier comments.
The heat that he sat there and didn’t catch a wave he didn’t, but yeah that’s a bomb
Hard to make the point about being scared when it's during a heat and priority tactics and all sorts of shit are going on.
In 2011 Yadin Nicol didn't ride a single wave during the final of the US Open against Slater and it had nothing to do with wave size, either too big or too small. He just dropped his bundle tactically.
He’s definitely working hard on his Achilles heel, his fear of heavy waves, and he deserves credit for it.. He went a solid one in his most recent pipe heat as well.
Definitely not a pussy. Has work to do, but the dude's pure class.
Yeah nah Stu, agree to disagree on that one, look I’m a massive fan of his but he pussed out in that heat.
Like others on here have said, he’s been working on it and good on him. If he makes that a strength of his then he’ll nearly be unstoppable. I’m hoping he does because his skills and reflexes are incredible, I’d love to see him packing massive tubes all over the joint. He’s my favourite Brazilian easily
Actually I don't even know which heat you're referring to I just felt like arguing for the sake of it.
Pretty sure I'm right but...
Me either, but I think I’m still right
Damien Hardman struggled his whole career with waves of consequence and won a world title. At big pipe or sunset he really didn’t like being out there and it showed, funny thing was at big pipe one year he was letting everything go and then finally took a wave 10-12 ‘which he surfed realy well. Most guys on the tour these days charge hard but the box caught a few out as they hadn’t surfed it before, doesn’t make them pussies , Italo’s first wave everat the box was a gem and there wouldn’t be many surfers in the world who could claim a wave like that first time out. Medina a few years ago struggled at the box and some labeled him a pussy , then he went on to charge and win chopes. Alot of people have knocked Toledo big wave performance in the past but all I can see is a guy that keeps improving with age and dedication.
That’s kind of the crux of the argument, that Dooma can actually surf large pipe really well, but as you say, avoided it.
Filipe has the talent to get a wave like Italo at the box, but we didn’t see it did we, why, because he didn’t go. Don’t mistake that with couldn’t go.
I’ve watched through Filipes heats that Teahupoo comp that are readily available on WSL. I’m not really sure what happened inside Filipes head that day, but in all fairness, he did go plenty of waves on bigger days during that event. The heat in question did have a bit of rawness about it though. I don’t think it’s a problem though to discuss his obvious fear. What I’ll concede is the P word is probably a bit harsh, but like I said it is what it is. I’m not about to defend Mark Mathews air game either.
I’m a completely shit surfer, no talent, but I’m still out there on large and heavy days having a go. Not going sets in heavy waves will cost any CT surfer heats according to the criteria. Pretty sure Filipe himself came out and admitted that he’s trying to get more comfortable in heavier waves, after releasing the footage of that Teahupoo bomb. So he’s already admitted it himself. To me, admitting that publicly, that was the moment he began to win the battle. I’m one of his biggest fans, have been for years
Respect where respect is due. That drop to barrel against Kelly yesterday. Oh my god, there is no denying the kitten is growing into a lion. Go Filipe
The barrels that Kelly and Toledo were catching were mind blowing.
The speed , intensity and unpredictability of those waves were incredible to watch.
It's about risk and opportunity isn't it?. Risk offers both danger and opportunity. What drives a surfer to take-on big waves in dangerous locations ? Is it their id, ego or wish to be respected, proving something to themselves and everyone else about their courage and skill ? or is it just personally powerfully inviting to test their luck and skills; Perhaps like Pike and others 'way back then' before 'ultra' short boards created new science it was as far as they could go.
Skill, courage and physical and mental fitness are not the only determining factors of staying alive in giant waves, though they would help. I'm not first to ask whether risking death or paraplegia or other damage what draws people to perform and others to watch at Pipeline or the other big 2 or 3 most dangerous spots?...or a few places here.
Why in any event are they being publicly judged ? There's no re-run if you break your neck getting off on your dopamine/adrenaline. Is public criticism characterising 'pussys', a result of surfing commercialisation or a projection of critics' real or fantasised courage?
My view is to admire people for what they do well perhaps even for resilience and give them credit for knowing their limits, not putting others at risk.
I remember once upon a time a young Slater was labelled a pussy in waves of consequence, a small wave trickster with no power. Look how that panned out...… Nowadays the general consensus is that he's most threatening when it's solid.
I'm not a fan of perpetual rotations, but I've noticed that is changing. His approach is definitely maturing. Plenty of time left to develop the big wave game.
Great insightful comments...waiting for the world to change...
All Seven Seas Summits are now retro fitted with Ski Lifts.
Extreme Weather Events are self policed from inside out nowadays.
Ticket to jail if you leap from a waterfall,rock slide,cliff jump,rope swing or toe dip.
Bodysurfers,Life Guards even Boardriders are now banned from Hazardous Surf.
Just as WSL athletes are now outlawed from Code Red & Big Wednesday.
WSL surfers must now sit & wait for Big Surf to settle.(Including big wave bullies)
In fact the Biggest Wave Bullies are the ones calling time on the comps.
Big Wave Tour has halved & halved again due to 'record breaking dangers'.
'All' 2018 WSL 'Big Wave' Tour events were halted or cancelled due to 'Big Waves'.
Almost as if they can't squeeze a Tsunami into a snowdome or egg timer?
Sponsors sue if you don't paint the line then sue big time if you cross it. (Catch 22)
Yes Ok...but tbb is forgetting our Big Wave Award heroes!
Not Really! As they too must read a rule book bigger than our swellnet bible.
For a start 'No' WSL tour surfer is 'technically' permitted to ride the largest wave.
Winning kamikaze surfer wins tea & biscuits on the WSL Big Wave bypass tour.
(Big Wave Wipeout 'Invitational')...WSL decide who wipes out & on which wave!
Nothing remotely sinister about WSL remodeling the World as Toledo sees fit.
Subtle reminder that Brazilians hold both Mens & Womens Big Wave Records.
So three years on from this thread.....anyone changed their opinions??
I don’t think he’s a pussy.
But not worthy of a world title if he won’t have a crack where most of the rest of the CT will.
I reckon you nailed it lostdoggy. I think he's become a bit of a whipping boy for the whole final 5 thing at Trestles and someone to direct our discontent at as surf fans. But really, it's the system that's allowed that. To not have the final event in a wave of consequence if you're going to use that format is ridiculous.
Having said that, it wouldn't hurt him just to turn around and go on a couple of bombs...even if he does what Caio did on a few and just take the drop and go straight. Just get the confidence up. He seems paralysed by fear, which i'm sure we can all relate to at one time or another.
Well the Woz have set the course for the next iteration of the Dream Tour and it includes Pipe, Sunset, Margs, G'Land, and Tahiti, and new changes mean he can only drop one of those events to count on making the finals.
Unless he turns over a new leaf, and fast, he's run his last world title race.