BAITING, TROLLING, INCITING CONFLICT
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A member who visits a forum only to incite "conflict" will be designated a "troll", and find his/her account temporarily or permanently suspended.
XX maintains zero tolerance for members who create posts intended to antagonize other members.
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From another popular forum .
Fitz I put that out there ages ago, I reckon you’re on the money
Sorry GF, I must have missed that one.
I get busy and take a break from here every now and then when it get's off tap.
I have suspected for quite a while too.
How and why is blowin still here? Indo as well. Who cares. They are and the loosers arent.
I think sypcan is right. Actually I dont know what he says most of the time but hes a smart dude. Smarter than me and the loosers.
The real world. Get on it. Fuck the greeny hippy commy dickheads. Do they even surf?
Geez Goofyfoot, Fitzroy, Blowin, Sypkan. You're all sounding a little, err paranoid. And even a little, dare i say it, obsessive about a certain banned poster. Noticeably obsessive. Kinda weird actually.
Nah bd, no paranoia here, just a s#%t c^*t radar.
Fagto was a smart arse dickhead. Where did it get him?
Poems and shit music and shit politics. He was better posting pictures. Big fan od dumb dumber. Dick. Is Snudfy him? Gutless. Whats wrong with hidden names anyway. Who cares. Blowin had to do it as he said. Dudesweet and carceron dundee. Good shit. Other crap, bad shit. Deal with it loosers.
Nightshift sucks lol
Why did you delete that Adam?
Shakespeare uncool too?
I enjoyed it. Dunno about frank though.
Zen, thought I put it in the wrong thread, I'll do it again just for you.
My favorite from Julius Caesar, when the great Roman General Marc Anthony comes across the dead remains of his hero, Caesar, just after his murder.
"O, pardon me, thou bleeding piece of earth,
That I am meek and gentle with these butchers!
Thou art the ruins of the noblest man
That ever lived in the tide of times.
Woe to the hand that shed this costly blood!
Over thy wounds now do I prophesy,—
Which, like dumb mouths, do ope their ruby lips,
To beg the voice and utterance of my tongue—
A curse shall light upon the limbs of men;
Domestic fury and fierce civil strife
Shall cumber all the parts of Italy;
Blood and destruction shall be so in use
And dreadful objects so familiar
That mothers shall but smile when they behold
Their infants quarter'd with the hands of war;
All pity choked with custom of fell deeds:
And Caesar's spirit, ranging for revenge,
With Ate by his side come hot from hell,
Shall in these confines with a monarch's voice
Cry 'Havoc,' and let slip the dogs of war;
That this foul deed shall smell above the earth
With carrion men, groaning for burial. "
And then Zen, the classic soliloquy of Hamlet:
"To be, or not to be, that is the question:
Whether 'tis nobler in the mind to suffer
The slings and arrows of outrageous fortune,
Or to take arms against a sea of troubles
And by opposing end them. To die—to sleep,
No more; and by a sleep to say we end
The heart-ache and the thousand natural shocks
That flesh is heir to: 'tis a consummation
Devoutly to be wish'd. To die, to sleep;
To sleep, perchance to dream—ay, there's the rub:
For in that sleep of death what dreams may come,
When we have shuffled off this mortal coil,
Must give us pause—there's the respect
That makes calamity of so long life.
For who would bear the whips and scorns of time,
Th'oppressor's wrong, the proud man's contumely,
The pangs of dispriz'd love, the law's delay,
The insolence of office, and the spurns
That patient merit of th'unworthy takes,
When he himself might his quietus make
With a bare bodkin? Who would fardels bear,
To grunt and sweat under a weary life,
But that the dread of something after death,
The undiscovere'd country, from whose bourn
No traveller returns, puzzles the will,
And makes us rather bear those ills we have
Than fly to others that we know not of?
Thus conscience doth make cowards of us all,
And thus the native hue of resolution
Is sicklied o'er with the pale cast of thought,
And enterprises of great pith and moment
With this regard their currents turn awry
And lose the name of action."
"There's the rub"
I did not know that was WS.
There you go.
Nah bd, I dont think one comment make you sound noticeably obsessive about something.
How many comments have you posted in this thread about blowin or Indo d? And for some strange reason can’t bring yourself to type their name most of the time..
If my one comment makes me sound noticeably obsessed then all yours make you sound like a certified stalker nut job wouldn’t ya think?
Nice try though.
Goofy foot, my comments were all directed at Swellnet, and asking for a response as to why there was favouritism in censoring one and not the other. The response still doesn't sit well with me.
All the comments above are little bitches sitting around sniping and talking about someone who's not even here to defend themselves.
BD, you're approaching this from the wrong direction.
Swellnet's forums are a sideline to our main business. We're stoked to be able to offer a place where people with a common denominator (surfing) can discuss just about anything in a relatively unconstrained environment.
However, shit happens, and things occasionally go pear shaped. I've been a part of many forums over the years (not just surfing), and have seen this happen almost everywhere, so this issue is not exclusive to Swellnet. It's a human problem.
Nevertheless, when confronted with an issue, there are many ways to respond. In this case, a circuit breaker was needed, because the same old repeptive shit show was starting to wind up again. We simply don't have the resources to babysit grown adults.
I'm not going to write an executive summary on each of the offenders, how their acts contributed (in my eyes) to those particular events, and then justify the decisions we made. Everyone concerned has history going back many, many years. They've all been banned at one point of another in the past (you don't know that, because we don't announce it).
Should we be more pro-active on moderating? Yes, we should. And I'll try to fast track some development tools that will allow us to get on top of these issues earlier, so they're less of a distraction.
But, to be honest I'd rather be spending time and development resources building more surf/weather tools. Y'know, cause that's what we do.
Fair enough Ben, and i do get that side of it.
Just wanna see it fair and balanced.
And yep. Surfing. I hear ya.
"There’s a level of anonymity in social media that is concerning, that people are not making comments under their own name, and they can hide, and I don’t think they should be allowed to hide" said new Home Affairs Minister Karen Andrews this morning.
Looks like we will all be using our real names soon.
(Spencer Chundercock reporting for Swellnet..)
Y'know what? Years ago I used to ponder the question "would people publish the same comments on Swellnet if they had to put their real name to it?".
Over the last few years, Trump, Covid-19 and a whole bunch of other events have shown that yes - people say really stupid things on social media under their own name.
Seems there are no boundaries.
Yep. Far, far worse.
Even some of the notable protagonists on here posted with real names.
tbh, in almost any media I consume, if there isn't a robust below the line community where arguments get called BS on I rarely stick around.
Almost always the best, most interesting and least biased material is found there.
Real names maybe harder for some
Hhmm, I disagree with the "far, far worse" part. I'm speaking broadly here, but aptly applies to Swellnet. Inherently, people are more self-conscious of how they are perceived by their online community if their id/name is attached to their post. Although, feeling self-conscious doesn’t equate to acting rationally. Plenty of research on the matter which supports that theory, not much swinging the other way. Then there are the nutters who don’t give a fuck and post vitriol and abuse, nonsense, bullshit what have you regardless. Could be likely its the same crew who have no issues loading up surfboards or throwing hands over slights in the water? Point being, it really doesn’t matter in the end as you will always get ad-hominem and straight up drivel no matter which way you swing. Should always be the consumers choice, Stab make you pay to comment now. I'd love to see the engagement and overall analytics pre and post decision to go premium. I have a feeling it not pretty. Pay walling your readers voice gives little incentive to engage with that site. There are two interesting theories in media that are worth looking into if anyone has the time: control vs chaos in media. We are well and truly in the chaos age, which the government and corporations like News Ltd detest (Ala Minister for Home Affairs Karen Andrews this AM).
So Ben, just out of interest, what would be your recommendation if you were running Swellnet? Genuine question.
FWIW Stab's engagement is pretty low these days (usually just a couple of comments per article) though to be honest it wasn't much higher prior to going behind the paywall. However, Stab still have a large, active following on Instagram (if that's worth anything).
STAB is dead.
maybe SN would thrive if Ben killed the comments and it became purely a functional/transactional forecasting site?
Yep, Stab's engagement on IG is high. But I’m not too sure they've figured out a way to monetize their profile like teenage influences seem to easily do. I agree comments were on a downward trend whilst free. But then there are plenty of users like me who mainly go to Stab and BG for the comment section but very rarely, if ever, comment. I feel that this segment of the user base would be significant. Stab have paywalled them out, which is fine, ad revenue isn’t what it used to be, something had to be done. I paid for a couple of months, but my feelings for the site changed dramatically, money out of pocket has that tendancy. I now have no issue ever going back as their IG is more than enough. Was thinking about paying $10usd for the Andy flick but still working through that haha. Before all this, I'd visit every second or third day out of seven.
I reckon I would do exactly what you're doing, but as a very last resort, which it appears you have done. Its looks to be a slippery slope. Moderation is costly, ID enforcement drastically changes your products value and crew would probably leave for good. I have a question, has this sort of breakdown, or coming to a head, and subsequent good conversation about the issue happened before? On swellnet that is.
"Stab's engagement on IG is high. But I’m not too sure they've figured out a way to monetize their profile like teenage influences seem to easily do."
Aside from a handful of celebrity "influencers" (shit, I feel dirty having used that term), how do you know that "teenage influencers" are actually making money from Instagram? Let alone paying staff, rent, electricity, other biz costs? My guess is: no-one's making any real money from Social Media, other than the platforms themselves.
"there are plenty of users like me who mainly go to Stab and BG for the comment section but very rarely, if ever, comment. I feel that this segment of the user base would be significant."
At the risk of sounding biz-focused, how do you monetise a "significant" audience who doesn't engage, and doesn't pay? Now that advertising revenue is a fraction of what it used to be - and even in years gone by, it wasn't that great anyway - large web audiences can actually be a hindrance, as they drive up costs without contributing any revenue to the business.
"I have a question, has this sort of breakdown, or coming to a head, and subsequent good conversation about the issue happened before?"
Yep, many times. Sometimes discussed publicly, usually dealt with behind the scenes. With variable levels of success.
"My guess is: no-one's making any real money from Social Media, other than the platforms themselves."
I agree. Teenagers were the wrong example and not the one I was looking for. Low hanging fruit. Lots of money being made though Benny. Here is an example from one category and more than likely thru paid partnerships:
Yes, the headline says "celebrity influencers", but take a look at the list, not one world wide or even recognizable name on there.
"At the risk of sounding biz-focused, how do you monetise a "significant" audience who doesn't engage, and doesn't pay?"
Um, I'm not sure you can?
To be clear, this is not really my wheelhouse. I’m offering my subjective opinion based on what I think know, what I see and what I read about; and when it comes to regulation or oversight, my beliefs. My opinions are subject to change regularly with new information or understanding. My beliefs much harder to change, need to be fairly persuasive for them to budge.
"Yep, many times. Sometimes discussed publicly, usually dealt with behind the scenes. With variable levels of success."
Nice. I am assuming this all blows over with time then. The original post I see was from four years ago, yet here we are today.
"maybe SN would thrive if Ben killed the comments and it became purely a functional/transactional forecasting site?"
Why? What would be the rationale? Most people like the comments, and earlier today you mentioned how valuable BTL comments are to your own interest.
I'm personally just going back to the surfing content. It's a minefield in the other stuff.
The commenting under articles on Swellnet for some reason is generally pretty good quality and rarely get's to loose or heated, sometimes the comment section can even be as good as the article (not dissing the articles, but you know what i mean)
And this isn't a universal thing, god look at some sites like Beachgrit, the commenting there is just trash like 13 year old grommet dribble.
Surely from a google perspective the commenting would also boast google rankings as would confirm reader engagement etc
Hey Indo, remember when you made a comment about how there was no female commentary in these forums and I bagged you (because you were looking for a Lauren Southern type of commenter). Well I think you were right and these forums could do with some women to keep the punters a bit more polite and respectful. A lot of women surf and read SN yet none comment and it probably reflects the level of toxic masculinity that creeps in between combatants. I bet a bit of the poison would recede if these guys were replying to females, you would hope anyway.
Unfortunately because I have the kavorka, I have to keep away from most women, so I don't have anyone who I could enrol for SN but I would encourage some of you guys to get some women involved in these forum to sort us all out a bit.
Personally i think the forums are great most of the time ,even with the 'boys' slanging at each other is entertaining up to a point when it crosses over into the repetitive dark side which no one seems to be able to stop or back down from unfortunately ...shame really because in between all the shit there are some good stories to be heard.Swellnet is better off with the forums than without imo.
"The bill vests such a high amount of discretion with the commissioner that she can even apply to the Federal Court for the removal of an entire digital service if there are two instances of failing to remove content restricted under this bill. While the current commissioner may be reasonably exercising her discretion today, the law will live on long after she moves on. If the bill gives the commissioner final say on determining what is offensive and not, then it also needs checks and balances to ensure those broad powers are not abused. Today, the commissioner lacks the same accountability structures as other regulators."
Case in point of the governments disdaine of the chaos theory I mentioned earlier. Numerous topical red herrings provided so that they could justify rushing these laws in without consultation. Nor did they accept not one of the 370 submissions from stakeholders within the digital industry. It's starts with this, what's next?
Wild piece of backdoor legislation this one, slippery slope. Doesn't get much slippery'er.
Stu, only because Ben has made multiple comments that it's not core business and implied it might be more trouble than its worth.
Other sites don't have much commentary and seem to do OK.
I really have no idea. I only know that it's the below the line commentary and the community that interests me.
Personally I’ve read a lot of interesting commentary and learnt plenty of new things through what is posted on here. Like “kavorka” never heard of it but now I wish I had it
I like the fact that on swellnet people can abuse each other and say whatever. Even if I do think VL is a stupid c**t. What's next, gender and diversity inclusiveness rules? Let stupid guys be stupid guys and have some fun. Please, DONT sanitise swellnet!
Yeah it would be good if there was some female commentary for some balance, and not just one token poster.
Thinking about it though kind of makes sense why there isn't, most guys here seem to be on the other side of 35+, i guess younger crew stick to social media, so if it was the same for females then its very rare to come across females surfers in that 35+ age range, obviously much more younger female surfers in the water these days though..
Although judging by social media OMG sometimes some of the most toxic comments can be from females, so who knows.
On surfing being somehow especially toxic.
I just read a piece on the London Review of Books.
I think, we can agree, a bastion of genteel, elite discourse?
Below the line: straight into a vicious ad hominem attack on the writer, followed by a toxic all in brawl.
Generally speaking, we're doing fine.
Bastions of civility with the occassional bad tempered flare up.
"I really have no idea. I only know that it's the below the line commentary and the community that interests me."
same here, nothing against swellnet's... cough cough 'aervices'..., but aside from curiousity, they have become pretty much redundant to me... I don't know why I care what surfers think, but it's interesting, the politics, the perspectives... and the stories of course
I forget who was saying surfers aren't ' ...a bunch of commie greenys...', but I disagree, generally... with the professionisation of surfing, yes it attracts all sorts now, but generally I reckon most surfers are still on the traditional left of politics, and have a keen sense of environmentalism
what I see to be happening now, is a split in those who buy into the contemporary cult of identity politics, and those that don't, which is particularly interesting for me, because I'm right down the middle on this particular issue, mainly...
I like the heated debates, I don't mind the loose shit giving, I especially like it when one of the regulars throw their toys out from the cot... but I don't like the nastyness, the stalkyness that developes, and the incredibly childish, contradictory, personal attacks, but I do love some of the hypocrisy and irony... sometimes... in s self destructing, schadenfreude, kind of manner...
but as many have said, this forum ain't that bad, relatively it's good, and constructive, especially considering the colourful characters surfing attracts, so I really don't get what all the whinging is about sometimes, toughen up, princesses...
re. constructive, one of those climate change threads was particularly constructive, excellent information being amassed, even some sort of consensus developing... then the toy throwing started...
then the thread disappeared...
a real shame from my perspective
Never understood the toughen up princess jibe.
I mean I do - girls are weak chuck them in the creek- but then I don't especially now.
Actually I dont know what the cult of identity politics really means either. But I'm just a dumb surfer hippy throw back.
Modern kid talk is just mutton dressed up as lamb.
Too many contradictions.
Enjoy the ride fellas.
well like most things in life stuart liddle, you have a choice...
'toughen up princess'...
can be seen as largely gender specific and totally sexist (your choice)
or, you can take it as largely class based and loose (my choice)
or, a bit from column A and a bit from column B (the reality, if such a thing exists...)
tbh, I used to hate the term, but it seems everyone has become so feeble, weak and pathetic, I've been driven to it's worth...
"Actually I dont know what the cult of identity politics really means either. But I'm just a dumb surfer hippy throw back."
just enjoy it then stuart, it's a great place to be...
The 'harden up princess' for some unknown reason in our family was always 'harden up buttercup'.
Gender neutral and only offensive to particularly sensitive gardeners.
Rabs68. Hang in there legend!
I like the sharing of ideas - can learn from any of you here, no matter what your politics. Kavorka - always thought that was pheromones, but perhaps it really is a mystical power.
When it comes to the site and the information presented - I love it. I loved the very early internet weather/swell prediction (eg Blackheath weather for the LWT) and Craig and Ben not only do that, but provide great articles and thorough explanation - opportunity for discussion. The articles on coastal landscape, such as sand flows, marram, etc are the best. Finding a 'sense of place'.
If there is any criticism, it's that the site is probably a little East coast oriented, and conventional shortboard oriented. That's where the market/numbers are? I understand the flip side (hulls, singles, longboards) is probably oversupplied on Insta or FB, but no interest in those forms of social media. The interview with Zac from WA was great btw, yes, west oz shapers and industry are much quieter (don't share, don't say, don't blow trumpet - it was very hard to be taught channels for eg!) and the experience is more raw. Smooth lines surfed radically in powerful waves. Think I've taken the quietness on board.
On here, it's great to be able to share a view - especially if you tend to live more quietly for whatever reason. With the new laws on the horizon, I'm no longer sure linking interesting articles, silly links, or expressing certain views, will not be penalised. It would be great to clear this up.
Edit: kudos for broadcasting the Noosa longboards btw