Snapper, Greeny, Kirra. Could the Crowd get WORSE - YEP!
not sure udo
the main thing is the issue, not the people doing this or not doing that
ply the ball-not the player if we want to end up in front on the scoreboard.
i will work thru media and council,
That local club just had its 50th anniversary bash didn't it ? just after the swell fuck must of been a few beer fuelled comments thrown around.
Yeah, but D-bah boys and kirra boys associated as well. Thats why there has to be a united front so it cant be said it's a personal thing, but rather a safety issue. the laws already exist, so this is simply about public education for all. prevention always better than a cure.
Like many others I have done a decent stint living on the goldy and seen the dysfunction of the points firsthand for Mr. Seaman to use this as some sort of justification for using skis is a bit much. Sidfish summed it up best, its not u versus the crowd, its u versus the sweep and the sweep gives the average punter a chance amongst the madness, if the gods are shining on you, for skis to take that away and give the greedy and privelaged more is just wrong.
Good on dave the rave for his input and actions on this topic. But reading your input one can only ask how the fuck can Wayne deane and the mayor be so ignorant and/or inactive? the same goes for the older surfing statesmen of the coast. Personally I'd like to see the public shaming on a trashy current affairs show. I know the coast has a competitive dog eat dog culture but lines have to be drawn somewhere. An old joke springs to mind, whats the difference between the gold coast and a tub of yoghurt? Yoghurt has culture.
Surely there is an ounce of real surf culture left somewhere there on the goldy.
sypkan
firstly, wayne deane is a good bloke who has and is doing heaps of good stuff to get surfing heading in the right direction here. If it wasnt for Deaney, the bays would still be getting flooded with sand and it would have been way harder to get Big Groyne back. he has no ulterior motive mate, but he is not one to be in the spotlight and he will do things his way, underground but effective. He doesnt have to go to meetings with councillors and the like, but he does, why, because he loves this place and he loves surfing. besides, it was someone else i was talking about, who is one of many who are not happy about jet ski's being in the Kirra line up.
Secondly, lets forget about the personalities here, this is about an issue that a) is an illegal practice and b) sets a very bad precedent for surfing everywhere.
Jet skis are too dangerous to be in wave zone near people-period. Their size, weight and potential for mechanical failure and the speed they travel means that they pose a high risk to human safety in a wave breaking zone. Dangerous enough having out of control SUP's or mals in the wave zone, let a lone a motorized craft.
We can also talk about noise and air pollution, wake messing up wave quality, hogging of waves etc etc.
No Surf culture, not in the true spirit of surfing etc etc are all valid points, but the main issue is that of safety, and it will be concentrating on this point that will ensure jet ski's are not allowed near surf breaks while people are paddling into waves, The law already exists, it has to be made known that there are no exceptions to this rule-simple.
sypkan wrote:Like many others I have done a decent stint living on the goldy and seen the dysfunction of the points firsthand for Mr. Seaman to use this as some sort of justification for using skis is a bit much. Sidfish summed it up best, its not u versus the crowd, its u versus the sweep and the sweep gives the average punter a chance amongst the madness, if the gods are shining on you, for skis to take that away and give the greedy and privelaged more is just wrong.
Good on dave the rave for his input and actions on this topic. But reading your input one can only ask how the fuck can Wayne deane and the mayor be so ignorant and/or inactive? the same goes for the older surfing statesmen of the coast. Personally I'd like to see the public shaming on a trashy current affairs show. I know the coast has a competitive dog eat dog culture but lines have to be drawn somewhere. An old joke springs to mind, whats the difference between the gold coast and a tub of yoghurt? Yoghurt has culture.
Surely there is an ounce of real surf culture left somewhere there on the goldy.
Not justifying it, I don't have a ski, I'm one of those getting washed past the groyne waveless. I was just making the point that the sweep was as bad as it gets out there. I would be happy to see the skis gone but in my opinion they don't really affect my ability to get a wave, skis or not the crowds keep coming, you think you are finally in position to get one and boom the next influx is washed through from Greenmount and you're number 46 in the queue again.
I guess my point is the place is a mess, if you can't deal with it then it's really not the place for you.
davetherave wrote:sypkan
firstly, wayne deane is a good bloke who has and is doing heaps of good stuff to get surfing heading in the right direction here. If it wasnt for Deaney, the bays would still be getting flooded with sand and it would have been way harder to get Big Groyne back. he has no ulterior motive mate, but he is not one to be in the spotlight and he will do things his way, underground but effective. He doesnt have to go to meetings with councillors and the like, but he does, why, because he loves this place and he loves surfing. besides, it was someone else i was talking about, who is one of many who are not happy about jet ski's being in the Kirra line up.
Secondly, lets forget about the personalities here, this is about an issue that a) is an illegal practice and b) sets a very bad precedent for surfing everywhere.
Jet skis are too dangerous to be in wave zone near people-period. Their size, weight and potential for mechanical failure and the speed they travel means that they pose a high risk to human safety in a wave breaking zone. Dangerous enough having out of control SUP's or mals in the wave zone, let a lone a motorized craft.
We can also talk about noise and air pollution, wake messing up wave quality, hogging of waves etc etc.
No Surf culture, not in the true spirit of surfing etc etc are all valid points, but the main issue is that of safety, and it will be concentrating on this point that will ensure jet ski's are not allowed near surf breaks while people are paddling into waves, The law already exists, it has to be made known that there are no exceptions to this rule-simple.
You're right, the safety issue is the only issue you need to focus on to get some traction with government, greed is seen as good on the Gold Coast.
Fair call daverave, Wayne deane seemed to be a reasonable man way back when I was there. I am just amazed that no one with influence on the goldy has said anything. And I am also amazed that there isn't one journalist around those parts be it surf or mainstream with enough integrity to do a story for the common gpod. And even more amazed the old sea dogs haven't pulled the little whipper snappers into line. There seems to be a lot of people reluctant to speak up, the surf industry isn't that big and powerful is it?
Strange things happen within the power circles of the gold coast.
Only on the gold coast...
Sorry mr. Seaman, it seemed you were defending their behaviour, yes the gold coast is a mess and has been for some time, but for the most part people try to do the right thing, it just those.special people dragging the standards down.
Yeh the goldy probably isn't the place for me, but the influence it has over the wider surfing community it what makes one want to comment
@sypkan
Honestly there appears to be next to no order order out there. I've lived here 8 years and just go about my business and have never had any problems but some of the shit I see blows my mind. I see full blown kooks paddle up to the rock at Snapper and manage to get waves just by being willing to snake. Where else in the world could they get away with this?
I have a friend who will often say something to bring people into line and the rest of the crowd (including locals) seem to look down at their boards awkwardly, too scared to make eye contact in case that is confused with making a stand.
A true surf culture is hard to define on the Gold Coast, a lot of people see the club contest thing as the culture, with contests on every weekend it's easy to see why, and this is where the I don't give a shit about anyone else attitude is established. Sending 5 year olds out to surf off the wall with 3 others for twenty minutes at a time on Saturdays really does wonders for a kids ego, throw the compulsory Billabong stickers on their board and bingo you have a really great sense of entitlement that will last as long as Billabong keep sending stickers (which luckily seems to be only until about 20 years of age and at which point a good portion of these rising stars are not seen in the surf again).
In the meantime the rest of us just keep quiet and go about our business for fear of rocking the boat and making our surfing life harder than it already is.
A few of the main offenders are in the U.S. right now for the Hurley comp , Lewis samuels might have a chat to them.......?
Surfer mag ran some great shots of Kirra that swell .
Mr. Seaman, your observations and tactics are very similar to mine.
The club contest stuff is shit, every weekend claiming an already scarce resource and encouraging rock ape behaviour. But its the same across oz, if they want a break to themselves then go where there is no people, simple.
sypkan wrote:Yeh the goldy probably isn't the place for me, but the influence it has over the wider surfing community it what makes one want to comment
+1, Yep the fuck you attitude will spread, Gold Coast sounds more like Brazil every day.
sypkan wrote:Mr. Seaman, your observations and tactics are very similar to mine.
The club contest stuff is shit, every weekend claiming an already scarce resource and encouraging rock ape behaviour. But its the same across oz, if they want a break to themselves then go where there is no people, simple.
Still I bet you couldn't beat the record I witnessed at DBah one weekend where they had 3 separate contests running at once. Yeeeewwwwww!
Goldie aint that bad. Just don't get all butt hurt when you get faded from time to time. Generally I find the attitude in the water a lot better than less populated spots, simply because you can't afford to get too precious about your waves and your priority. Most people on the coast understand that you win some and you lose some. Small town surfers tend to get so worked up when they weren't going to make a section and someone jumped on it so they start yelling and carrying on like they own the ocean. On the goldie most people just shrug it off and go find another one because they know that sooner or later they will brain snap and do it to someone else.
*not condoning skis in anything under 8' surf
@ mk1
You summed it up perfectly, it's the only way to enjoy yourself out there. On the bright side you never have to wonder whether anyone saw that last tube because there were 6 guys paddling for the wave the whole time you were in there!
Here's a plan we've been hatching at Swellnet and would like to hear what you fellas think:
At the beginning of the Goldy surf season we'll release an article stating that on the first good day at Kirra a videographer will film all of the surfing and any illegal PWC activity, with a view to using the footage of illegal activity. We communicate this to the surfing community as widely as possible. It won't be a hollow threat, Swellnet will pay a videographer to film the action then give the footage to us. At the end of the day the videographers job is done, he collects his money and has no more attachment to the project. Their name is never released. If illegal activity is caught on film we'll trim the offending footage, record rego numbers etc, and then take it to the authorities. Meanwhile footage of paddle surfers getting barrelled can be edited into a clip.
The idea is that by communicating it first we send a warning. However if that isn't heeded then we actually back it up with action.
Thoughts? Criticisms...?
Yep its a good idea but it shouldn't take swellnet to do it...Tate,Young etc are aware whats going on and for some reason will not enforce QLD law .......will it take a death or serious accident and a investigation on Australian story 12mths later before any thing is done !
From a legal view where does this put Tate, Young, and waterways in the event of a death.
Freeride and co got it stopped on there pointbreak an hour south , Steve how much effort was that ? didnt see any articles about it - did the law get broken after it was a no ski zone or they all got the message.
@ Stu, I see no reason not to if you guys are willing to do that.
@ Seaman, I ordinarily feel no need to defend gold coast surfing to those who have forsaken it ("just keep quiet and go about my business" as you say) but I'm willing to state that I've seen worse attitudes to sharing the lineup come from small town, east coast surfers with more waves at their disposal.
udo wrote:Freeride and co got it stopped on there pointbreak an hour south , Steve how much effort was that ? didnt see any articles about it - did the law get broken after it was a no ski zone or they all got the message.
I think all the tow crews went out and brought Ceasar Thundercats when they said no jetskis.
stunet wrote:Here's a plan we've been hatching at Swellnet and would like to hear what you fellas think:
At the beginning of the Goldy surf season we'll release an article stating that on the first good day at Kirra a videographer will film all of the surfing and any illegal PWC activity, with a view to using the footage of illegal activity. We communicate this to the surfing community as widely as possible. It won't be a hollow threat, Swellnet will pay a videographer to film the action then give the footage to us. At the end of the day the videographers job is done, he collects his money and has no more attachment to the project. Their name is never released. If illegal activity is caught on film we'll trim the offending footage, record rego numbers etc, and then take it to the authorities. Meanwhile footage of paddle surfers getting barrelled can be edited into a clip.
The idea is that by communicating it first we send a warning. However if that isn't heeded then we actually back it up with action.
Thoughts? Criticisms...?
great idea, lets hope it doesnt get to this. Hopefully common sense will prevail and people will see its not safe or sustainanable. Could be solved by asking this simple question, "What would happen if everyone did it". Can you see the image, burleigh jetski's, currumbin jet ski's, kirra jet ski's, snapper/greenie jetski's- your local firing- jet ski's- aaargh- ugly shit that.
I agree with Stu, give them the opportunity to stop and change their behavior. Word should get around that it is not OK. If any clowns decide "fuck it" and continue, well, they have been warned and the next step is down the legal avenue.
Legal action might scare the little guys but it wont stop the high profile players who can afford to pay fines.
Stu, good idea but wonder why the responsible authorities / people are being let off the hook.
My suggestion is to go to Tate / Young now with the idea and in the hope you get them onboard. This has the advantage of adding strength to your position (if jet skis know it will be filmed and that Tate / Young are onboard they will be less inclined to offend) and it sheets home responsibility to where it truly belongs i.e. Tate and Young
If Tate / Young resist the idea, that information in itself, is useful and proceed with the original plan anyway. At least you will know what you are up against and you can design your plans/actions accordingly.
Lastly, in the spirit of free enterprise how about selling an appropriately designed protest Tshirt on your website!
dastasha wrote:Legal action might scare the little guys but it wont stop the high profile players who can afford to pay fines.
'Cept as Fitz noted in a comment earlier, lose your PWC license in QLD and you also lose your driver's license.
floyd wrote:If Tate / Young resist the idea, that information in itself, is useful and proceed with the original plan anyway. At least you will know what you are up against and you can design your plans/actions accordingly.
Good idea Floyd. Not so sure about the T-shirt though...
Just phone up Tracy Grimforsure..... "Surfrage"!!! "Jetski madness!"'
Some "close up interviews".... Foreboding music in the background..... Camera zooms in on concerned reporter.... Archival footage of surf/jetski injuries.... Parents crying out "what about the children!!!!!"
Grimforsure finishes by saying "We contacted the council and the police but both declined to comment.... Up next, how exercise is killing YOUR kids"..... And Obesity, the new disease more dangerous than smoking........."
Does any body remember the bumper sticker
Save a whale, harpoon a jet ski
T shirts, posters (at the boat ramp), an old japanese whaling boat moored just outside.....
Apart from sex, the two most powerful drivers of human behavior are greed and fear. Greed is what puts those skis in the lineup, only fear can get them out.........
Sheepdog wrote:Just phone up Tracy Grimforsure..... "Surfrage"!!! "Jetski madness!"'
Some "close up interviews".... Foreboding music in the background..... Camera zooms in on concerned reporter.... Archival footage of surf/jetski injuries.... Parents crying out "what about the children!!!!!"
Grimforsure finishes by saying "We contacted the council and the police but both declined to comment.... Up next, how exercise is killing YOUR kids"..... And Obesity, the new disease more dangerous than smoking........."
love your work big fella,
"then After that, the Bigdog, denies all allegations from a raving madman, who says he was attending afternoon mass while the hi jinks were supposedly going on. Grandma found near death from exhaustion."
lol..... Hey, rave.. tried dropping u another line..... Maybe dodgy email.... Try emailing me.... You'd remember my last name.. You definitely know my first name.. I aint putting my email up here... I'm sure my feckn crazy ex has poked her head in lol.... But anyway, if my last name is biscuit and my first name is jimmy...... the email would be [email protected]... Capiche?
Cheers, man
Whaaat welcome back ol son, throw us a legal angle on this towing can you .
Sheepdog wrote:lol..... Hey, rave.. tried dropping u another line..... Maybe dodgy email.... Try emailing me.... You'd remember my last name.. You definitely know my first name.. I aint putting my email up here... I'm sure my feckn crazy ex has poked her head in lol.... But anyway, if my last name is biscuit and my first name is jimmy...... the email would be [email protected]... Capiche?
Cheers, man
hey Sheepy you telling me your " feckn crazy ex" doesn't know your first and last name? lol
holy shit... 50young!!!!!! What have I done!!!!!!! If you hear of a murder in southern tas,,, You know I fucked up big time lol!!!!!!
Hahaha, FAIL SD.
Yep..... Pitched, drilled, and a saltwater enema (which btw is more appealing than my ex)
Shaun.......Old boy......
Sheepdog wrote:lol..... Hey, rave.. tried dropping u another line..... Maybe dodgy email.... Try emailing me.... You'd remember my last name.. You definitely know my first name.. I aint putting my email up here... I'm sure my feckn crazy ex has poked her head in lol.... But anyway, if my last name is biscuit and my first name is jimmy...... the email would be [email protected]... Capiche?
Cheers, man
yes me understand fully, mate, not going into it, but not going to email you, want you to have nice peaceful life, nothing to do with your ex mate, great memories with you brother, thanks for posting the photo's, so happy you changed course mate and really proud of you, be happy brother. Never let the truth get in the way of a good story- Rule 1- journo manifesto.
That's a good idea Stu. It is not about goodies and baddies. Some point out, quite correctly, if we were all offered a lift, we would all be pretty tempted to say, OK, just this once, if it's legal, wow, that's great, look if you happen to have a spare spot next time, in the interests of research, maybe I would be amenable, just the one more time you understand...
It's still wrong, in 4 to 6 foot surf, with 95% paddling.
stunet wrote:
floyd wrote:If Tate / Young resist the idea, that information in itself, is useful and proceed with the original plan anyway. At least you will know what you are up against and you can design your plans/actions accordingly.
Good idea Floyd. Not so sure about the T-shirt though...
Rashie would be better.............
wellymon wrote:Shaun.......Old boy......
Under the bridge mate.............
Stu, firstly I think its awesome you guys are also prepared to try and create real change. I guess its all about taking that first step. I just wished that a respected local created exactly the ethos you are proposing and it wouldn't then require your time, effort or out of pocket.
Its called leadership...and I'm afraid seemingly there's a lot more people following the fools than creating the leadership required to keep the place's zoo like atmosphere controllable.
I'd still like to see a quiet approach to the likes of those Sth End Locals/Pro's mentioned above to see if they can resolve the issue they've created to manage their own mess rather than Swellnet as an official third party. Seemingly an unreality on their part but I hope I'm wrong? My 2c worth.
Unfortunately some of the pros / surf industry employees/ cashed up surfers have adopted the line
" You can't do todays job, with yesterdays methods and be in business tomorrow"
Great forum Swellnet.
finback wrote:Unfortunately some of the pros / surf industry employees/ cashed up surfers have adopted the line
" You can't do todays job, with yesterdays methods and be in business tomorrow"
Great forum Swellnet.
And.... Golf courses make great motorcross tracks but that doesn't mean its legal and/or socially acceptable to ride on them!
.,.
Jetskis aside, as the Kirra groyne reshapes the sandflow, hopefully things become better... As I said earlier, things were a bit calmer when Snapper, rainbow, greenmount, Kirra, and 2nd groyne were all separate breaks... Crowds were still insane at times back in the 70s/80s, but the segregation of the breaks split people up.... Pick and choose..... The sand pumping/superbank has been a curse in disguise....
Used to watch MP, PT etc out at backwash snapper.... It often wouldn't link into Rainbow, where a separate crew would gather.... Then just in the corner at rainbow, it'd go wonky, and right next to the Greenmount rocks was a rip where us grommets would jump in and be at the greenmount takeoff, which was a perfect wave for us little guys, very similar to 1st point noosa..... Bellyboarders, surfmat riders would litter Coolangatta beach, which would look like Mooloolabah..... Sometimes it even had banks, and a heavy rip left next to kirra groyne...... Then..... When the swell got big, kirra would come to life...... The gatta had soooooo many options..... The "superbank" fucked it.......
Pump the sand further out to sea..... Watch Kirra do a phoenix... Bring back the options....
spookypt wrote:Stu, firstly I think its awesome you guys are also prepared to try and create real change. I guess its all about taking that first step. I just wished that a respected local created exactly the ethos you are proposing and it wouldn't then require your time, effort or out of pocket.
First step before 'Affirmative Action' Stu would be to conjure your journo skills and run an interview with the likes of Rabbit, or some of the other woodwork at Snapper and Kirra boardriders. Show them the footage and get their opinion on how it should be out there. Surely there is some sense among these guys and half the lads with the skis are affiliated with the clubs in some way.
Hey Stu you have Occy's ear to batter with questions all next week, he's about as local as you get at Cooly these days... Surely he has an opinion on it?
Swellnet, I hope you don't mind me cutting and pasting this link from another page I stumbled upon today..... But here's a couple of exerts from this article written 12 days ago.
Quote 1 Phil Gallagher:
"This will piss a few people off I’m sure, but if you owned a ski or had a buddy with one you scored yesterday, plain and simple. The sweep and pure length of waves meant ski assist was critical if you wanted to get waves."
and
Quote 2 Phil Gallagher:
"Its a pretty hostile dog on dog vibe in the water to be honest. Guys are getting burnt every wave and some pretty dangerous moments also which make you cringe watching. Guys are getting tired and frustrated paddling against the sweep and then they look out to some guy recalling his 30 second tube to his mate on a ski heading back for another run and their blood just boils. Sitting on the ski shooting, you just hear guys yelling all over the place and little hot spots flaring up. I try to just document the wave and not get involved with it all."
http://stabmag.com/gallery-mick-fanning-joel-parkinson-dean-morrison-at-...
Message......so to get the best out of surfing Kirra and get wave after wave of 30 sec tubes and tell ya mates as you get dragged out for another while burning everyone trying to fight the paddle battle....BRING YOUR SKI's.....
PHUCK ME does this shit have no end!
the comments on that article speak volumes of the sentiment of your average punter, or Alf Stuart or Toadfish anyway.
So with everyone's (or should I say some more than others) arms weary from last weeks swell event a few mates and I got to thinking over the weekend.
There's been a bit of flack over the net about certain well known locals using ski's to the benefit of their respective wave count. Certainly a few of those "amazing" barrels were assisted on entry and with the crowd as it was, I'm not sure how the jet ski rules apply (?). So, seemingly as they don't for some...my mates decided this.
We're not south end locals but surf down there when, as was the case last week, there wasn't a lot of other options and with the media calling it best ever for such a long time who could blame us being bees to the honey pot.
So, we all decide to throw in some money to the total of say $100k = Say 10 jet skis +/- worth. We rent each ski at a hourly intervals. Say 8 hrs for each 10 hr day conservatively at $500ph giving each client 10 waves + for the hour. At 8 clients per day x $500 an hr = $4000 x 10 skis = $40k x 4 days = 160k!!!
Lets deduct fuel, rego, insurance (what insurance?) misc crap and lets say we use up all the $60k that's left. That's till leaves us 361 days of the year to make money and piss off everyone on the east coast.
Now the irony is, none of us are advocating this should be done BUT if some crew can, pro or not, than surely all crew can.
I didn't get burned by any ski's during the last swell, but a few did. Andy Mac and Co are pushing for the area as a surfing sanctuary surely everyone here who gets the benefit of its use should be entitled to the same opportunities. Its either going to be sore arms for all or we'll end up with everyone having jet ski assist (like the example above) instead of only the few now who IMO shouldn't. I personally think the pro guys should set this example or otherwise they may be sorry for the trend they started.
Just a thought I'd throw out to all. Flame suit on................
Spookypt