What is freedom of speech?
'It would be fair to say that modern society has accommodated the cultures but clearly to not successfully. In fact 'we are killing with kindness'.'
So, it wasn't bullets, poisons, whips, chains, raping women to death, splattering their babies heads against trees, lying, stealing their land, home, stomping, crushing destroying, decimating everything in sight... it was 'killing them with kindness?
The clan lives! Long live the clan! The march of the zombies.
Again time hasn't hurt North Sentinel Islanders at all. The opposite in fact, they have prospered for 60,000 years, and still are! The only thing that has caused all this 'good 'ol uncle whitey' 'evolution', is his brutish, thick headed, violent (yet kind) choices and behaviour. Racism 101. The 'red mist'.
The march of the zombie!
'Not another wun ov vem farkin' sixty farkin fousand farkin year farkin cunts! 'Ere, I'll show yas what good ol uncle whitey duz wiv ya 60 fousand years yar farkin... cop vis, yar farkin fick 'edded useless farkin' cunts!'
Far be it from me to interrupt this testicle competition, but I have to ask herc
How do you see computers, Internet, drugs, porn and other modern day dilemmas such as the 'haves' and 'have nots' fitting into this reconstructed nostalgic wonderland you seem to be advocating?
All societies black white rich poor developed undeveloped are struggling with these things so your wish list sounds a little fanciful
"So, it wasn't bullets, poisons, whips, chains, raping women to death, splattering their babies heads against trees, lying, stealing their land, home, stomping, crushing destroying, decimating everything in sight... it was 'killing them with kindness?"
Didn't you say you were never coming back?
Why the fuck are you back here?
Anyway, for what it's worth, I agree with your statement.
The past is the past. How would the world ever resolve, move on, co-exist if the past defined the future. With the large number of seperate identity groups or mobs, the way forward is not easy without soverignty or borders. In fact, maybe one of the first continents to evolve a new way.
The past is the past. How would the world ever resolve, move on, co-exist if the past defined the future. This is an answer to you also skyped.
That's another point of view where our 'modern', separatist cultural view differs from the Traditional Indigenous Australian, inclusive Cultural view. The results are also very different, glaringly so. 60,000 uninterrupted years of relative harmony, equality and prosperity, compared to a series of collapsed bloodbaths, blatant, ever burgeoning inequality, pollution, epidemics (crumpled testosterone levels in all male age groups is one also skyped) etc... ad infinitum. Culminating in creating bombs so destructive that one raised digit can blow everything that we can comprehend into smithereens. 'Or, highly advanced evolution', as we call it.'
Even in the most basic scenarios, the past is crucial when defining the future. Say you need a hip/knee/shoulder op for instance. Seems great, but unless you identify and change what it was in the past that created the present (operation required), you'll sooner or later repeat the pattern, the past, over and over. Which is fine if the past has proven to be successful, as far as creating the desired outcome, but disastrous otherwise.
'How do you see computers, Internet, drugs, porn and other modern day dilemmas such as the 'haves' and 'have nots' fitting into this reconstructed nostalgic wonderland you seem to be advocating?'
Again we have Cultures on this planet that have a ridiculously much better track record than us at living harmoniously. And not collapsing. If we were applying for a job interview to fill a position enabling and creating prolonged harmony, equality, longevity, fulfillment, then our culture's application would be binned immediately. So, why not let Indigenous Australians have a say in how to get out of the mess for themselves, have self determination, and see how they fare. And for our benefit, why not totally attempt to understand their Cultures, and learn something that would help us. And thus them.
A large part of the answer to the above, is racism. We can't bear to accept that Traditional Indigenous Australians had, and could have a better grasp of things than us. We still view them as mere flukes. We still view ourselves, despite debacle after debacle, as superior, advanced. Like good 'ol uncle whitey, many Australians still see a prehistoric people shielded by time and events. We still think of them as along the lines of,
'Ugg! Me hungry! Must kill and eat! But first magic pow wow! Now me take woman! Now me tired, must sleep!'
We can't stand to think of them as people who reasoned, discussed, reflected. In a way that was inclusive. People who thought deeply about cause and effect. Who had the ability to take all into account, when making decisions, when deciding on actions. We loathe their obvious success. Because deep down, our 'race', and our bombs are superior.
'Didn't you say you were never coming back?
Why the fuck are you back here?'
Yes, and yes, also agreed.
Good answer herc
That's the role I see for aboriginal people going forward
But I think you're a little harsh on the general public's appreciation of aboriginal people and their culture...people aren't that bad
90% voted yes 40 years ago, I don't think many countries could achieve such a unanimous result even now
agree herc. although the part that you don't acknowledge is that indigenous cultures are not one voice. TB is right in that respect. it makes it incredibly difficult even putting aside the entrenched legal difficulties/framework.
i took a bit of read into teh canadian situation since i lived there a while back and it was interesting to read that their treaty situation was far from roses. in fact it seems that the only reason it got up is that the settlers basically conned the indians verbally and then wrote whatever they wanted and got it signed.
so even back then, the concept of just 'giving up land' was far from mutually agreeable. fast forward several hundred years and land is more economically precious than ever. yeah, its not all about land, but it kinda is lets face it. self determination is possible, but it really only works when you have control of something.
I don't think most of the general public mean that scenario skyped, but the original racist conditioning is still in play. As zen said, we should learn, in schools, the truth about Traditional Indigenous Cultures, and why and how they achieved that unrivalled 60,000 year record, if we are serous about reconciling and being more successful in the future. Remember, somehow all those diverse Indigenous Cultures held a common goal, and communicated country wide. In a relatively harmonious, fullfilling way. For 60,000 years. Show them our pride in their unmatched Cultural success. Learn from it. Swallow our pride for once.
But, I agree with sheepdog. What am I doing here.
and, while you're giving straight answers tell us what you think of science and climate change
...or maybe don't ...
I get the feeling here among some there is this romanic notion of what it was like before white fella came and that if we didn't come here, cliché Aboriginal culture would continue and Aboriginal people to this day would still want to live on the land in huts playing didg and doing rock and bark paintings while they tell their kids about the dream time.
Obviously no matter what had happened or who had claimed Australia this would not be the case, and the cliche traditional picture painted I'm sure was only one side of the coin and that traditional life would have been extremely hard and life expectancy very short and that like most traditional tribes there would have often been conflict over things like territory, food, women etc
BTW. Im not at all saying we are some saviours or makes the wrongs of the past right, just thought id make the point that no matter what happened it's unlikely traditional life would continue as was and like most cultures people especially among the young they are not always so interested in tradition culture and are more interested in things outside their culture like music, technology, internet/computer games, movies, drugs, porn etc. (this problem is seen among many cultures for example traditional Mentawai people, were the children as they grow old enough want to move to a city and live a non traditional life)
Yes there have been times in our pass where Aboriginal people were tried to be parted from their culture (just like other areas of the world especially by missionaries)
But IMO in this day and age it's the people themselves that need to keep culture alive and that you can still keep that culture alive when you are living outside of a traditional community.
I see this with my Indonesian wife, when she lived in Indonesia she didn't appreciate her Javanese culture, while now it's very important to her, language, food and things like arts and traditional beliefs and ceremonies/events etc
PS. Not sure if that makes sense?.
Just eat your tartare sauce, then get back to work... Simple, really.
Herc, you have suggested using more of Traditional Indigenous Cultures education in schools. Well, this is already being done - with good results too. But now you need to incorporate the many other laws, cultures into the process of learning. You might want to find out exactly what is taught and how it is taught. This is just one area where there is little agreement for obvious reasons.
Turkey posted a Sleaford Mods review that had more insight applicable to this 'discussion' in two fucking quotes.
"The society I live is mine, open to my voice and action, or I do not live there at all."
"He wasn't being spoken down to; he wasn't being spoken about. He was speaking."
Apply that to the Barunga Statement, the Uluru Statement from the Heart, Galarrwuy Yunupingu's essay in the Monthly, even Noel Pearson in The Australian...actually, apply that to all Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander people of Australia.
As the Uluru Statement from the Heart said in its last paragraph:
IN 1967 WE WERE COUNTED, IN 2017 WE SEEK TO BE HEARD.
Well said Shanter .......
Yeah, a lot of talking for & to & about, not enough actual listening. Time to chill and STFU for a bit. Listen, watch, maybe learn something?
Yes you three are right. The plebs should just shut up and show no interest at all.
Just let some academics and some select aboriginals dictate their vision for all aboriginals and australia, because that has been going so well....
a STFU on a "freedom of speech" thread.
TT. i'll give you credit for that one. not sure you deserve it, but benefit of the doubt as always
In the words of the late great Bill Leak
"By enabling tantrum throwers to re-establish their feelings of moral superiority they can walk away purged, but it doesn't get to the root of their problem: Chronic Truth Aversion Disorder,", he wrote." The CTAD epidemic that is raging unchecked through Australia's social media population is rendering impossible any intelligent debate on serious social issues,...
The reactions of people in an advanced stage of the condition to anything that so much as hints at the truth , while utterly irrational, are also so hostile that anyone inclined to speak the truth understandably becomes afraid to do so".
Bill linking his "truth" to fact on "serious social issues" is in itself a massive leap off faith.
Truth is a pretty subjective notion I would have thought when compared to actual facts.
For those that wish to say STFU. I can't help but think how Ms Prior was led down a path where the 'others' knew what the outcome was. How they put her out to dry, to embarrass her, to make her future difficult to say the least. No support here for this poor idigenous lady.
Is that best one could do - STFU ... well.
Ha ha, you guys...
Just for you close-readers out there maybe I should've added (in CAPITALS):
Yeah, a lot of talking for & to & about ALL ABORIGINAL AND TORRES STRAIT ISLANDER PEOPLE OF AUSTRALIA, not enough actual listening to ALL ABORIGINAL AND TORRES STRAIT ISLANDER PEOPLE OF AUSTRALIA. Time to chill and STFU for a bit. Listen, watch, maybe learn something from ALL ABORIGINAL AND TORRES STRAIT ISLANDER PEOPLE OF AUSTRALIA?
Just trying to tune in to their voices through the white noise on here.
Keep calm and carry on, freedom warriors.
Bill muthafucken Leak! Forget Godwin's Law and Hitler and shit, we've got the Leak!
Poor bugger banged his head, went a bit doolally, and then went full-Rupert. Never go full-Rupert.
Tiny job market in the media though. Tinier still for cartoonists. Gotta keep in sweet with whoever will take ya. Stake out a market. A point of difference. Gotta pay the bills.
Unless you wanna end up like Larry fucking Pickering!
Too bad, so sad, that Leaky had his finger on the wrong pulse - Murdoch's! What with the age and viagra, Jerry will render ol' Rupe deader than Bill. Sooner rather than later.
Lest we remember.
Now, here's some real pulse, freedom fighters!
Here's some news for you Talking turkey, just like any race or ethnic group in the world
ALL ABORGINAL PEOPLE DON'T HAVE THE SAME VIEWS OR OPINIONS.
And as far as I'm aware there is no Aboriginal people or Torres strait Island people here, you either want too discuss the topic or you don't, if you don't then take your own advice and STFU.
You guys are putting on a fantastic display of why we now have trump
"Truth is a pretty subjective notion"
"Keep calm and carry on, freedom warriors."
Back on the 'Treaty' thread merry-go-round.
"Y'know, those "blackfellas" apparently want a treaty or something...how does it effect ME?
What would you give up for THEM? I don't like THEM trying to split up MY Australia. I, ME & MINE, don't think it's, y'know helpful, FOR ME. AND MINE. AND THEM! Don't you agree, MY fellow country-MEN?
ME. ME. ME.
But, but, but...that's not ME. I don't want to (snigger) "point the bone" (get it, get it?) BUT... etc etc etc blah blah BULLSHIT."
Forget the white noise, here's one for ya Indo, you can do an Aussie version.
How'd ya like your coffee?
"You guys are putting on a fantastic display of why we now have trump"
Soup-Can, hang on, let's cut to the chase, can I call you Shit-Can, actually, what is a 'Shit-Can'? A septic tank! By Donald, I've got it!
For the sake of brevity, let's just call you Seppo, and be done with it!
Anyway, Seppo, I'm not eligible to vote in the USA. Apart from you, who is? I mean, you are, yeah?
Trump love trumps reason.
Are 'we' responsible for Hanson then?
Dude, what happened to you, man? Did you get beaten up by union thugs one time like Tony 'the black' Barber?
Or just a thug like Blowie, but like a 'lefty lynch mob', small 'l' liberal one?
Maybe not physically even but psychologically, y'know in a 'snowflakey' kinda way?
Couldn't cut the mustard at uni? Couldn't get in?
Whatever. God blast America. And you too, Seppo.
LOL. STFU. SJW.
Keep fishing Shanter you'll need a bigger piece of bait than that.
Mate, you're already stuffed and mounted on the wall!
At Herc's place!
The ball's over there
I think you might be thinking of Blowin, I've only replied to one or two of Hercs post, no offence to Herc but i normally dont even read his post or just skip over them real fast, especially in the Treaty thread it was like he made one post then cut and pasted it twenty times and just rearranged the order.
Indo, maybe go back and read the one with the pictures in the 'Treaty' thread. I just did. QI.
The ball's over there"
That doesn't even make sense. You trying to play hoops again, homie?
White men can't jump or something.
All you do is attack people. And the ball is rolling away...somewhere, way over there...but you can't see it
you won't even engage in any discussion, on anything, just casting judgements, from rapunzel's high tower of moral superiority
Toeing the Clinton line for 12 months, with no discussion at all, through some pretty significant developments. Just slurs at people and sources
You are peak identity politics, personality assassination and nothing else. Lighten up man
Let down your hair
@TT Yeah i re read it, and i did actually read that one before as it seemed to stand out from the others and it was well thought out and although i don't agree with all he said that was one of his better post in that thread.
Agree Sypkan i also re read some of the last page of that treaty thread and all Shanter seems to want to do is stir Blowin up and attack him, what do they say "play the ball not the man"
Indo writes "Agree Sypkan i also re read some of the last page of that treaty thread and all Shanter seems to want to do is stir Blowin up and attack him, what do they say "play the ball not the man"
Now that there is gold I tells ya... Blowjob, one of the biggest firestarters , name callers, instigators here, and you say that sharts should play the ball?????
Gold, Indo....... Gold.....
Im not saying Blowin is perfect IMO he should have just let it go and not played the game Shanter wanted to play but look back to the last page or two of the Treaty thread and then page 8 (i think ) of this thread, Shanter just goes on and on and IMO is still trying to bait and stir up people.
I think Blowin is hilarious. Right, wrong or otherwise, i think this site would be poorer without him. Lots of other contributors too, that's why I like SN.
"Play the ball not the man"
Fuck, the ball is caked with shit, misshapen, dead-flat and useless.
Actually, so is the 'man'.
So how then can this ball be rolling away?! A bit late trying to kick and drag it into the long grass now, hey boyz?
And Seppo, we know you've already gone peak-Trump - fanboy club of one on here - but now you're slipping further into peak-Blowie ie full of SHIT!
"Toeing the Clinton line for 12 months with no discussion at all, through some pretty significant developments."
Me? Bullshit. Total and utter.
Dude, your time-line is fucked up for starters. I haven't been around for friggin' months!
And what is the 'Clinton line'? What does it even mean?
Do you even know yourself??
Anti-Trump doesn't make you Pro-Clinton. Anti-Clinton doesn't make you Pro-Trump.
Except in your world.
You slapped on too much dumb Clinton-hate and then painted yourself into a Trump corner.
Where hate trumps all reason. No thinking required.
Too bad, so sad.
TRUMP! TRUMP! TRUMP! TRUMP! TRUMP! TRUMP! TRUMP! TRUMP!
From the halls of Montezuma to the shores of Tripoli...
"Now that there is gold I tells ya... Blowjob, one of the biggest firestarters , name callers, instigators here, and you say that sharts should play the ball?????
Gold, Indo....... Gold....."
"Im not saying Blowin is perfect IMO he should have just let it go and not played the game Shanter wanted to play but look back to the last page or two of the Treaty thread and then page 8 (i think ) of this thread, Shanter just goes on and on"
Yeah, I've read all that. It's not the Shatner I remember, but it is worth a read. Old Blowie's own words are used against him.
It feels like an 'intervention' of sorts. A heads-up for us all? Freedom of speech in the Google era carries a lot of responsibility.
I wouldn't use the term 'intervention' myself ...well, perhaps ironically.
You were singing from the Clinton songbook, still are
Love trumps hate
of the whole movement, so much hate
Prove me wrong, Seppo.
Or join Blowie in "the movement"...
The BULLSHIT movement.
That love definitely trumps reason.
Say what you want about Bill Leak, , But he didn't hide behind a cloak of anonymity . I think a comparison to Hitler is a little harsh, but that's just my opinion. Rejoicing in his death is a little over the top and not really warranted in my view ,but go ahead anyway..This forum is hardly a think tank on any level..anyway sorry to interupt , carry on regardless. I'll just "STFU"
Make it quick too, Seppo, ya dumb cunt, I've gotta blow this popsicle stand. Real life awaits.
I'm not holding my breath so as a parting shot to all you Freedom Riders, a pertinent article:
So I googled " Shatner's bassoon " as you requested :
Nice scarf btw. Really going for that " Where's Wally / Harry Potter look eh ?
How's that working out for you ?
Best you scurry off to real life .
And of course by " real life " you mean the 7:00PM all stops to Penrith , no ?
Blowie, you know that says a whole lot more about you, than it does me.
And I'm not talking about your IT skills, or lack of, maaaate.
Smart-arse = dumb-cunt. Flip of the coin.
Come in spinner.
So your response is :
"I know you are , but what am I ?"
Is that an effective reply where you're from ?
Or does it paint you as the overwhelmed slack -jaw as much there as anywhere else ?
I'm genuinely curious.
A minutes silence please people. It appears Shatner's Bassoon may have permanently retired to that blonde brick , four bedder in the sky adjacent to Nor' West Sydney.
Travel well , you sly cock knocker , travel well.
just more BBM i see.