What's what?

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Shatner'sBassoon started the topic in Friday, 6 Nov 2015 at 7:48pm

AN ALL-ENCOMPASSING KALEIDOSCOPIC JOIN-THE-DOTS/ADULT COLOURING BOOK EXPERIMENTAL PROJECT IN NARCISSISTIC/ONANISTIC BIG PICTURE PARASITIC FORUM BLEEDING.

LIKE POLITICAL LIFE, PARTICIPATION IS WELCOME, ENCOURAGED EVEN, BUT NOT NECESSARY.

AndyM's picture
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AndyM commented Tuesday, 28 Aug 2018 at 1:26pm

Guy Smiley:

Yep, I viewed "anchor" as an impediment to the progression of our version of democracy as opposed to a "pillar".

So I agree with you in regard to a few things;
- compulsory voting is good
- political donations are a huge problem
- a diverse and indépendant media is essential to a healthy democracy

The second two are extremely obvious.

But, I see preferential voting in the Lower House as another major problem in Australian politics.
Bear with me.
Preferential Voting (PV) has been in use in the Lower House for 100 years - PV was implemented in this fledgling country specifically to create a stable, two-party system.
This may have been desirable then, when the population was highly homogeneous, but IMO it's outdated.

I think an entrenched two-party system as established by PV in the Lower House is a huge part of the political stagnation and susceptibility to corruption and influence we're now seeing.

Also, if you look at countries around the world which have undertaken electoral reform and moved away from PV, you can see the Australia is actually pretty recalcitrant in this regard, but that's no surprise considering how massively PV benefits the two majors in this country.

Proportional Representation (PR), as demonstrated in voting for the Senate, encourages minor parties to win seats, especially parties with support which is geographically widespread.
Basically, PR is more representative of the electorate, while PV is good for theoretically enabling the chamber to act decisively.

At the same time, maybe it's desirable to have differing voting methods for the two houses.

In any case, when you say that "it is noted the only people who argue against ... preferential voting are those on the reactionary right who mount spurious arguments about personal freedoms" I say this is fundamentally incorrect - it is the left who want and would benefit most from Proportional Representation in the Lower House.

GuySmiley's picture
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GuySmiley commented Tuesday, 28 Aug 2018 at 1:47pm

hey andym,

Thanks for your thoughtful reply.

yeah I meant to say those who argue against compulsory voting (CV) when I said preferential voting, my error. It is true I've only heard the right argue against CV. I was in the US just before Trump and those that I spoke to couldn't get their heads around us being forced to vote, if only they were!

I understand your point about the two party system/PV and was once a very big fan of independents, I personally voted for many, but I've changed my mind in that regard. The reemergence of Hanson and other nut cases from FNQ and independents from parties like the hunters and fishers are just too narrow focused for me. I personally think the 2 party system has served us well, that's not to say there aren't problems that need addressing - donations/ICAC would be a good start.

Just a thought, if a third force in politics was possible here would that really be a good thing? With nationalist sentiment in the air perhaps PV saves us from that extreme. Your thoughts?

goofyfoot's picture
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goofyfoot commented Tuesday, 28 Aug 2018 at 1:52pm

Doesn’t take much to get the big fella fired up

Sheepdog's picture
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Sheepdog commented Tuesday, 28 Aug 2018 at 4:19pm

Sometimes, chatting here is like a form of self punishment. Indo, Back to Sco Mo and his pentecostal hypocrisy. As I stated, he uses his faith to promote his political career AND ambitions. You are welcome to use the "look over there" tactic all you like in regards to "if he was a muslim".... Well......
A- He aint
B- my taxes pay his wage, and here he is spouting absolute garbage that I don't agree with, so as a tax payer I'll have my say.
And most importantly, C - the Judeo Christian culture is MY CULTURE, my history. Islam is NOT MY CULTURE. I should be ALLOWED to criticise my own cutlure without the likes of you using the "look over there at that culture" tactic.
The day we are not allowed to criticise or question OUR OWN culture will be the day we join the likes of those that you despise.

Sheepdog

indo-dreaming's picture
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indo-dreaming commented Tuesday, 28 Aug 2018 at 4:32pm

That's an interesting point about the our culture thing, i was actually thinking about this the other day and thought a similar thing about how Christianity whether we like it or not is kind of part of our culture.

It's possibly a fair point, so i will give you that.

I was also thinking why people are so protective of Islam and i think it's because in Australia muslims are a minority group, so the lefts default view is to protect them, although on a world scale they are a majority group.

indo-dreaming's picture
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indo-dreaming commented Tuesday, 28 Aug 2018 at 4:32pm

@sypkan

BTW. Where you going?

GuySmiley's picture
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GuySmiley commented Tuesday, 28 Aug 2018 at 5:10pm

Oh Lord, I pray you grant me my penance on this earth. Your straight to heaven sheepdog!

sypkan's picture
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sypkan commented Tuesday, 28 Aug 2018 at 8:27pm

That is a fair point from sheepdog.

But I still say there's a lot of erraticness and hypersensitivity regarding islam. Yet, generally in conversation, I'm usually one of the first ones to defend islam.

I think where lefty's rub people the wrong way with this, is that if you say anything at all about islam they instantly assume you're islamaphobic and a right wing nutjob, and the usual name calling begins. It is their default position straight of the bat. And if the conversation goes any further (rarely it does constructively) you find they actually know very little about islam, and they are the ignorant fucks they assume you to be. On top of that, they often seem to have never had a muslim friend, same for an aboriginal friend etc. etc. They've bought so much into this identity politics thing they almost idolise 'the other'. A kind of 'liberal exoticism' as stunet so astutely put it in a different context.

And then, on top of that, they are so quick to bag christians at any minute opportunity. This is where identity politics has become divisive. And its kind of silly really as the left shoots itself in the foot isolating potential voters. Especially as many christians have a tendency to vote left, they're not all right wing conservatives. And take it from someone who works in social services, there are a lot of good christians out there doing a great job doing the things most ozzies won't touch with a ten foot pole. Especially amongst new migrants, who the left are isolating before they even get a basic understanding of australian politics.

Having said all that, we really shouldn't have a pentacostal christian PM because they are actually a bit wacky. And sco mo of all people!! The liberal's talent base is surely not that low, close but not quite.

Already been indod, slowly making my way home. I went to your favourite little island paradise, amongst other places. Which was nice, but a bit like paradise lost. Still good, but too many resorts with too many rooms, and too many speed boats, and on top of that, too many boat boats ie. charter boats. Still cool, but I reckon the resorts business model is just about broken. I don't know how they have the cheek to charge $600 bucks a day for that circus (apparently closer to a grand for the new resort), but they're getting away with it...for the time being...

CryptoKnight's picture
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CryptoKnight commented Tuesday, 28 Aug 2018 at 8:30pm

'Doesn’t take much to get the big fella fired up'

Nah, just an innocent country full of people, the most successful Cultures ever, after 60,000 years of minding their own business, copping the most heinous crimes in history, and genocide, and then watching soul less dickheads trying to pass it off as some absent minded churchies and genuine do gooders giving them, who weren't so good, a real shot at greatness.

Then there's innocent kids being treated like slaves and scum all over the planet. Because its good for sales.

AndyM's picture
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AndyM commented Tuesday, 28 Aug 2018 at 8:41pm

Guy Smiley:

The Count of Mirabeau,  leader of the early stages of the French Revolution had this to say about governments -

"as a whole, the representative body should at all times present a reduced picture of the people, their opinions, aspirations, and wishes, and that presentation should bear the relative proportion to the original precisely."

I don't know if I'd go that far but I support the general concept.

And it seems to me like Proportional Representation does this much better than Preferential Voting.

I'm almost certain I've posted this list before, but systems of PR have been adopted in many countries, including Belgium, Denmark, Finland, Greece, Hungary, Israel, Italy, Luxembourg, Norway, Russia, Spain, Sweden, and Switzerland, so suffice to say (for the most part) that PR can work very well in supporting a liberal democracy.

The main complaint about PR is that it doesn't tend to produce a single party majority - a quick read shows that in 2000-2015, 17 per cent of elections in countries with PR resulted in a single-party majority, while single-party majorities occurred 85 per cent of the time in countries with majoritarian/plurality systems.

Personally, I'd prefer the type of consensus democracy encouraged (demanded?) by PR as compared to the competitive and adversarial politics of a majoritarian democracy which concentrates power in the hands of a bare majority.

But you could be right - we might rue the day we (potentially) gave more of a voice to heathens and rednecks.

It's possible though, that the apparent rise of nationalism is the result of a two-party system which doesn't adequately represent disgruntled people.

If the government actually took on board people's concerns would they be less likely to look for scapegoats?

It's very interesting but in any case it's all academic - Labor and the LNP aren't going to change it.

Did you know that Switzerland has citizen-initiated referenda to change the Constitution?
That's be a game changer.
Jeez, we could even have a Bill of Rights!

Sheepdog's picture
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Sheepdog commented Tuesday, 28 Aug 2018 at 9:44pm

What amazes me is I post about Sco Mo, our new PM, his "speaking in tongues" hillsong church, his hypocritical treatment of children, and within a bees breath, you're all waffling about islam. Classic ostrich behaviour. Head in the sand.
Australians REALLY cant accept digesting what our politicians "are doing for us", aye.
Instead of owning it, we scream "look over there"..... Makes me sick

Sheepdog

indo-dreaming's picture
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indo-dreaming commented Wednesday, 29 Aug 2018 at 7:46am

To be fair although i think speaking in tongues is a bit weird i don't see what speaking in tongues has to do with anything?

It's no more crazy than believing in some man in sky be it God or Allah who controls everything and praying to him/her every day and instead of living your life that you know is real being obsessed with pleasing this imaginary god to get through to another life .

And taking in people and providing refugee and a roof over their head ensuring they are feed and looked after given allowances and all other bells and whistles?

I think in reality they would prefer this than being sent back to Indonesia and having to use their own money to house and feed themselves.

Is it a surprise refugee advocates and refugees will do and say anything to get what they want?

Off course not, you could house them in the Hilton and you would get the same BS, even when housed in Australia we had refugees sewing their mouths shut on hunger strikes, rioting and setting the facilities on fire.

Is it a surprise no matter who is in opposition of a current government they will side with these views, off course not, we know opposition parties will do and say anything to get the public on their side and make current government look bad.

Both parties do it, both parties are as bad as each other.

indo-dreaming's picture
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indo-dreaming commented Wednesday, 29 Aug 2018 at 7:54am

@sypkan

But you stayed at the right yeah?..not the left.

Yeah it is sadly getting a bit like that, seems and sounds like everywhere in Indonesia was very busy this year though.

sypkan's picture
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sypkan commented Wednesday, 29 Aug 2018 at 10:16am

Indod I'm flattered you think I'm such a winner in life I could afford that. Even if I could, my moral code wouldn't allow me to pay such ridiculous rates whilst villagers live in extreme poverty just next door. Not to mention climate change, as it seems it doesn't actually exist in the telos island chain at all, as boatloads of doctors, lawyers and various other professionals (some willing advocates for climate change action one would only assume), and probably some fifo bogans, are whisked up and down the island chain in the nicest of speedboats, with the biggest of motors, using god knows how many litres per day, all in persuit of a fleeting moment of happiness, just to do it all again for the afternoon's fleeting moment session.

Let's just say my trip was a little more modest.

Yeh it doesn't really matter which god/church one belongs to. It's all the same when you strip away the language and culture. And, as a wise tradesman workman once told me, even the staunchest of toughguy atheists still pray when faced with death. So we're all the same.... except those bloody pentacostals, they truly are a bit whacky.

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sypkan commented Wednesday, 29 Aug 2018 at 10:18am

Indod I'm flattered you think I'm such a winner in life I could afford that. Even if I could, my moral code wouldn't allow me to pay such ridiculous rates whilst villagers live in extreme poverty just next door. Not to mention climate change, as it seems it doesn't actually exist in the telos island chain at all, as boatloads of doctors, lawyers and various other professionals (some willing advocates for climate change action one would only assume), and probably some fifo bogans, are whisked up and down the island chain in the nicest of speedboats, with the biggest of motors, using god knows how many litres per day, all in persuit of a fleeting moment of happiness, just to do it all again for the afternoon's fleeting moment session.

Let's just say my trip was a little more modest.

Yeh it doesn't really matter which god/church one belongs to. It's all the same when you strip away the language and culture. And, as a wise tradesman workman once told me, even the staunchest of toughguy atheists still pray when faced with death. So we're all the same.... except those bloody pentacostals, they truly are a bit whacky.

sypkan's picture
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sypkan commented Wednesday, 29 Aug 2018 at 10:19am

Indod I'm flattered you think I'm such a winner in life I could afford that. Even if I could, my moral code wouldn't allow me to pay such ridiculous rates whilst villagers live in extreme poverty just next door. Not to mention climate change, as it seems it doesn't actually exist in the telos island chain at all, as boatloads of doctors, lawyers and various other professionals (some willing advocates for climate change action one would only assume), and probably some fifo bogans, are whisked up and down the island chain in the nicest of speedboats, with the biggest of motors, using god knows how many litres per day, all in persuit of a fleeting moment of happiness, just to do it all again for the afternoon's fleeting moment session.

Let's just say my trip was a little more modest.

Yeh it doesn't really matter which god/church one belongs to. It's all the same when you strip away the language and culture. And, as a wise tradesman workman once told me, even the staunchest of toughguy atheists still pray when faced with death. So we're all the same.... except those bloody pentacostals, they truly are a bit whacky.

CryptoKnight's picture
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CryptoKnight commented Wednesday, 29 Aug 2018 at 12:56pm

Oh dear. The end is clear. Even at the start. They always crack, or get too carried away and spill their guts on the stand. And amidst the crack of the judges mallet, (its advanced), and the horrified gasps from the gallery, they get life. As the credits roll and they are carted away, they crack even more, and threaten to blow everyone and everything up.

The dreamer cracked. The dream is over. Dismissed. Again

'Is it about skin colour or DNA...NO its about culture, thousands of years of culture, something that just doesn't just disappear change quickly overnight.'

Its not hard at all to find the lineal, cultural record of western cultures. Including the poms. No, the maniacal bloodbath has been glorified from every angle, and jammed down the throat of the planet at the end of a gun barrel... or gazillion. Just like its not hard to see the basis of Traditional Indigenous Australian Cultures, with that not even remotely matched 60,000 year plus record. 600 plus different Cultural groups, with all the evidence of Spiritual, family connection, interaction, ceremony, reciprocation, sharing. And all while they cared for this country and planet, for over 60,000 years plus, a success story not even remotely matched ever in human history. The undeniable evidence is all there. Unless you have a real history of ludicrous delusion.

https://www.swellnet.com/forums/wax/381069

'Is it about skin colour or DNA...NO its about culture, thousands of years of culture, something that just doesn't just disappear change quickly overnight.'

Coming down to the colosseum? They reckon virgin slaves will be beheaded whilst being forced to give head jobs to donkeys!! And they will be burning live people and animals to keep everyone warm and excited!!! While the emporer humps his daughter, before pulling the arms and legs off her husband... and then humping whats left!! Look the 8 year old king has decided he wants to hump everyone's wives, and their horses too! After the priests have!! Need a new torture device... hey, how about watching some inquisitions, or a quick witch burning!!! Or zillion... Atomic bombs... try the new nukes!!! On sale now!!! Want some ice... wait, there's better shit!!!

'Is it about skin colour or DNA...NO its about culture, thousands of years of culture, something that just doesn't just disappear change quickly overnight.'

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/12180516/Geography-of-violenc...

Naaar... naaar... ffaaark orf, it wuz vem uvver cunts down on orz aaaye!!! Faaark orf... or eye'll blow yers up!!! Stupe... push ver faaarkin' button!!!

Yes, they'll protest their innocence. aka charles manson. The share trading world writes whole books on dreamer's delusions. It gives behavioral scientists a view into the deluded mind of the self proclaimed, 'intermediate trader' who then becomes an expert and dismisses the most basic rules, like protecting capital (who needs it anyway) and keeping records (who needs them either).

At least there will be visitors blowin' in from time to time. As they search the country through the red mist, in search of the non existent lost maaayte from east of Albany. And other poppins like ones, speaking in triplet. Swill nuts. Goofy ones too. Maybe the waltons? In a nutshell. Perhaps you can teach the guards how to trade?

If I need a new number plate, I'll give you a call.

I'm going to train people, so, I won't be replying in a few minutes, as the dreamer did when he dreamed that he went to work... again... in a nutshell... again

Blowin's picture
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Blowin commented Wednesday, 29 Aug 2018 at 1:35pm

Realsurf has a tard of the year award.

Not much point carrying on with one here as there’s never been any genuine competition for old mate Lifty.

It’d look good on his resume though.

Been getting any waves , Crypto ?

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Blowin commented Wednesday, 29 Aug 2018 at 2:20pm

.

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sypkan commented Wednesday, 29 Aug 2018 at 2:31pm

Speaking of maniacal bloodbaths, and colonisation (economic colonisation anyway), the great interventionists (from both sides of politics of late it would seem) have lost their great leader, and are now somewhat rudderless...

https://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2018/08/28/are_the_interventi...

...and, when you read the grand list of great interventionist fuck ups in that article, one can only think - thank fuck for that.

Trump is a fuckwit, who appears somewhat beholden to russia. Maybe due to 'kompromat', maybe due to common interests, or maybe due to dodgy business dealings - hence him still not producing his tax returns. Personally I think its only the last two.

Whatever it is, all that aside, when you read that grand list of great interventionist fuck ups, one can only conclude that america and the west, are in a position where it is only fitting that they allow some concessions to russia as a superpower in managing the mess that is the current geo-political situation. This is especially the case as russia must literally live next door to this long list of fuck ups while america enjoys the security of a vast ocean.

But the democrats are being defiant and destructive in their handling of the 'russian situation', in all of its forms.

And in addition, they continue to squander any credibility they had left with their contrived trite condolences for john mc cain, their newly found superhero.

Its like the democrats and the NYT just cannot do enough to undermine their already waning credibility (or is that already fully waned, to the point of nothing left credibility?)

https://spectator.us/2018/08/the-new-york-timess-slathering-praise-for-j...

blindboy's picture
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blindboy commented Wednesday, 29 Aug 2018 at 4:44pm

Fair comment sypkan, McCain is acclaimed at the moment mainly for the contrast he provides with Trump. He was an idealist who stuck to his ideals with great personal integrity. Sadly his ideals led him to support the appalling policy decisions that have cost literally millions of lives in avoidable wars. Trump by comparison wouldn't recognise an ideal if it slapped him across the face and has negative integrity, that means not only that he is corrupt beyond measure but that he actively corrupts those around him. The fact that, this far on his stumble through the geopolitical minefield, he has not blown anything up is probably due in equal parts to pure good fortune and the absolute astonishment of the leaders of potential combatants, in the face of his ignorance and buffoonery.

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GuySmiley commented Wednesday, 29 Aug 2018 at 4:50pm

andy, I would suggest that we had consensus democracy (plus/minus) in Australia up until the latter years of Howard. Likewise in the US and in the UK before Reagan and Thatcher. Neo-liberalism pushed consensus aside in the rush for an aspirational world, the politics of exclusion to protect the wealth and status quo of the powerful. This shift was cheered on by big media to sucker people into voting against their personal interests.

It is true our politics right now is adversarial and angry. There are great problems with our current system but its looking like Labor will be in government for at least a decade after the next general election so lets see what they do. They are promising an ICAC. On the other side, I foresee a massive split so we might get two parties there, a liberal-like party and a ultra right reactionary party.

indo-dreaming's picture
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indo-dreaming commented Wednesday, 29 Aug 2018 at 7:39pm

Crypto i think you often misunderstand me, nobody is ever painting indigenous people or culture as all negative, more just like any group they have positives and negatives in their culture.

100% some of the positives are "Spiritual, family connection, interaction, ceremony, reciprocation, sharing"

These are aspects of their culture that have also persisted, because good or bad these things don't change overnight especially in cultures that have changed very little over time and especially in circumstances where community's are almost cut off from outside influence..

And 100% correct as a western society many of our culture hasn't changed at least on a government type level, yeah our governments still stick their noses in others business and conflicts and are pretty war mongering.

As individuals and communities i think we are more open to change through, for instance on issues like how we view genders and how we treat each other or what is acceptable in society these things have changed greatly over the last 30 years or so. (that's not to say it's all roses)

Would it be of any surprise that communities that are remote and virtually cut off from mainstream society, change at different rates than the rest of society though?, and would our culture and indigenous culture been at the same view to begin with on certain issues/aspects especially social issues?

IMHO no, IMHO they may change at different rates and i think it's fair to say Indigenous communities in many areas may be behind or outdated in what we as a modern day more liberal community expect these days.

This theory could be easily tested by comparing rates of different issues with remote indigenous community's to those indigenous communities in other areas of Australia that are not so cut off and have more influence from mainstream society.

In theory the more remote indigenous communities should then have different attitudes and higher rates of certain things (domestic violence towards women, rape etc).

BTW. Im not saying this is fact, this is just my theory, thoughts & opinion and an interesting discussion on a forum.

Edit: Doing some reading confirms my thoughts, will only post this link as i know you guys don't like the Australian etc

https://www.creativespirits.info/aboriginalculture/people/domestic-and-f...

And yes it seems even in Indigenous communities, the rates are higher in more remote communities.

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indo-dreaming commented Wednesday, 29 Aug 2018 at 5:47pm

@sypkan

You are from the Peninsula ya?

Yeah it's sadly changing, but its still paradise, the waves are important and always better with less crowds, but the place and people haven't changed much.

CryptoKnight's picture
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CryptoKnight commented Wednesday, 29 Aug 2018 at 7:57pm

The thing is, Indigenous Australians don't need any more boots. Its like constantly pointing out a rape or abuse victim's failings. I don't like using the word victim, but Indigenous Australians were totally the innocent party. No guilt whatsoever. They copped enough. It was heinous by any stretch of the imagination what our 'founders' did to them . Their reward for 60,000 years of caring for this country, and hence, this planet. For never having attacked their neighbours, not in the slightest, in any way. Plenty of isolated cultures bombed out.

The language is clever. Its a huge field of study. It was always carefully constructed to remove and shift blame. The same as 'she was raped', compared to 'John Davis raped and violated her'. 'She was totally innocent', compared to, 'I heard she had slept around, we found a vibrator under her bed.'. It is entrenched, the use of that style of language, the effort to write them out of history. Or, more accurately to the point, to erase our wrong doing and shift blame and guilt. I won't go on, because I'm certain you get it.

I never said they were perfect. But, I stand 100% behind my description of their not even remotely matched success. Look what we claim, with our bloodbath background, and 200 year track record here alone. Imagine if we could brag about 60,000 years of non collapse, and an environmental track record like that. It would be trumpeted all over the place.

The whole Mabo thing exposed a lot.

http://www.csdila.unimelb.edu.au/publication/misc/anthology/article/arti...

'The next paragraph of Cook's secret instructions from the Commissioners for Executing the Office of Lord High Admiral of Great Britain is the one most relevant to this paper. It contains phrases and words that have been the subject of debate off and on over the last two hundred years. The paragraph reads:

You are also with the Consent of the natives to take possession of Convenient Situations in the Country in the Name of the King of Great Britain; or, if you find the Country uninhabited take possession for His Majesty by setting up proper marks and inscriptions, as first discoverers and possessors. (ibid).

In Cook's travels up the east coast of this continent he saw numerous Aboriginal peoples, their camp fires and their smoke. He tried to meet with them on occasion, but his efforts and those of his men were generally repelled. He and his officers fired shots at the Aboriginal people, and pursued them from the beaches into the nearby hinterlands on occasion. Some Aboriginal people had been on Cook's ship 'The Endeavour' and he, along with his officers and a Chief from Tahiti who joined the expedition (Tupaia), had attempted to communicate with them in English and Tahitian. (In fact, had any of Cook's party been able to talk with the Aboriginal people events may have unfolded very differently).

In his journal entries Cook continued to note the presence of people along the coast, and finally supplied an often quoted description of the inhabitants once he had finished exploring and was making his way to Batavia:

From what I have said of the Natives of New Holland they may appear to be to some to be the most wretched people upon Earth, but in reality they are far more happier than we Europeans; being wholly unacquainted not only with the superfluous but the necessary Conveniences so much sought after in Europe, they are happy in not knowing the use of them. They live in a Tranquillity which is not disturbed by Inequality of Condition: The Earth and sea of their own accord furnishes them with all things necessary for life, they covet not Magnificant Houses, Household-stuff &c, they live in a warm and fine Climate and enjoy a very wholesome Air, so that they have little need of Clothing and this they seem to be fully sencible of, for many to whome we gave Cloth &c to, left it carelessly upon the Sea beach and in the woods as a thing they had no manner of use for. In short they seem'd to set no Value upon any thing we gave them, nor would they ever part with anything of their own for any one article we could offer them; this in my opinion argues that they think themselves provided with all the necessarys of Life and that they have no superfluities. (Beaglehole 1955, p395-399).

One could wonder then why then Cook stood on the crest of the hill on Possession Island and

...now once more hoisted English coulers and in the name of His Majesty King George the Third took possession of the whole Eastern Coast from the above Latitude (38º South) down to this place by the name of New South Wales, together with all the Bays, Harbours, Rivers and Islands situated upon the said coast...(op.cit.p387, emphasis added).

Cook's decision to claim possession of this portion of Terra Australis for Britain is the underlying catalyst for the subsequent settlement and development of Australia. Why he claimed possession of the land history does not tell us. Clearly it was in literal breach of his orders as the land was not uninhabited.'

The lie of Terra Nullius is real. The lie of depicting the peaceful, happy, content people Cook described above as vermin, animals is real. Surely you can understand the consequences. They didn't want to know about his boats and toys, as some ignorantly rant about. They rejected them, until they were forced into positions of utter devastation, shock, horror, desperation, and lack.

The 'cultural' lineage I pointed out of the grotesque, manaical violence, and bloodshed that has shaped the british 'empire' is real. Impossible to hide. Argue over the accuracy of accounts, the results speak for themselves.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_mentally_ill_monarchs

We glorify it. Almost disgusting, unbelievable depravity at times. By no means can we take the high ground when assessing other cultures. Who wants that fucking shit to go on one second longer. We have modernized much of it. Its old news in our lineage, so we just figure it must apply to all.

https://www.smh.com.au/national/viewing-death-disturbing-new-genre-of-sn...

https://www.theverge.com/2012/6/13/3076557/snuff-murder-torture-internet...

We have destroyed immense amounts of what Traditional Indigenous Australians nurtured and fostered. Our home now. Just fucking maybe, with all their ridiculously long, beyond doubt superior management of the land, our planet, and considering seriously the ability for so many diverse Cultural groups to live and interact without collapse and annihilation, we could get off the high horse of lies and violence used to usurp them, and perhaps learn at least something from their example?

Of course Indigenous Australians want to move on. Under their terms. One being, the truth. As bad as it is, the truth is freeing. I see it all the time in my work. Its a corner stone of it. Face the reality of being overweight/unfit/drunk/smoker/injured, whatever, and you will change. Deny it, justify it, hide it, play it down, change won't happen. There is nothing to fear in the truth, and everything to gain. Look around at the planet. Society. Tell the truth. Call out lies and liars. Get off the high ground, the still warm mountain of bullet shells. 60,000 years is an insane record.

And, those maps of violence, yeh, they are a bit inaccurate. By the day.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-07-27/map-of-indigenous-massacres-grows-...

Give all of us here the truth. Pay homage to the First Australians, and their work. To make really better decisions and a real home. No more boots in the guts, accidental or not.

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sypkan commented Thursday, 30 Aug 2018 at 1:39am

I'm originally SA indo. Currently based WA.

Nice one crypto.

See you can be a useful cunt, as opposed to being, well...you know, just a .... , you're also a funny cunt, its part of your nasty cunt routine. But too much nasty cunt makes for a not so funny cunt. Balance grasshopper.

Interesting stuff about the language. I imagine it ties in a bit with aboriginal peoples very different view of shame. I cannot claim to understand it, as it all seems very subtle. Subtle but very different, across many contexts. It also seems to get them in a lot 'trouble' (for want of a better word) in white man's eyes, in terms of education, work, and comfrontations. Interesting stuff.

This is where we are very racist, expecting blackfellas to just instantly conform to white man's ways. And this is where crypto is right about us viewing the world through very racist eyes. Which is also very subtle, and doesn't convey well, especially the way he tries to explain it with an aggresive manner. All that PC stuff, not so important, but if you could get people to understand the important racist stuff we'd be getting somewhere.

Sadly most of the people screaming racism all the time don't even get it. They've just been brain washed into superficial knee jerk reactions. And it doesn't seem to be getting us anywhere.

Interesting stuff also in this guardian article. I always wrote tony abbott off as being worse than john howard, way worse. But it seems he has some redeeming features. His clumsy language not being one of them.

Abbott's clumsy language is indicative of this more subtle racism.

https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2018/aug/29/in-1788-it-was-no...

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simba commented Thursday, 30 Aug 2018 at 5:48am

Well said Crypto.

simba

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indo-dreaming commented Thursday, 30 Aug 2018 at 8:16am

Agreed t was actually a good post, it was on topic with substance and without abuse or non relevant topics etc

Although I'm more interested in the causes of current problems in Indigenous communities and how they can be solved, to do that you need to understand why they have developed or possibly always been there to start (although not to the degree seen now).

Personally i don't agree with common theories they have developed because of white fella,(marginalisation and dispossession, loss of land and traditional culture, breakdown of community kinship systems and Aboriginal law, entrenched poverty, racism)

100% these aspects make things worse especially with alcohol thrown in, but the reality is the areas with less white fella influence where tradition is strongest are the areas with the biggest problems.

Personally i can't see anything ever changing, I don't think change can come from the outside it needs to come from within, otherwise the only other way is to basically force the communities into our own world and way of life, which Abbott basically tried to do by closing down these communities.

Which i can't believe he even suggested, and pretty crazy that the current government could even suggest of appointing Tony to the role of indigenous affairs, its almost like a pisstake.

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sypkan commented Thursday, 30 Aug 2018 at 11:49am

I think change is coming slowly indod, or at least it was, as elders - generally the women - have had enough, enough of the domestic violence, enough of seeing kids die, enough of seeing useless men corrupted by grog, enough of being second class citizens in their own country. They have stood up and initiated change from within, and were generslly getting somewhere. Then the ice came, which kind of changed the dynamics. I don't know how big of a problem it really is, but it sure ain't helping.

"Personally i don't agree with common theories they have developed because of white fella,(marginalisation and dispossession, loss of land and traditional culture, breakdown of community kinship systems and Aboriginal law, entrenched poverty, racism)"

All these things have had a huge influence, but I tend to agree their influence is over stated as the whitey do gooder academics desperately grasp onto causes and hopes. I recently saw an excellent presentation from a blackfella (who seemed totally uninterested in PC-ness by the way). He said that the second largest australian government department is the department of aboriginal affairs. Second only to the department of defence. Think about that for a miniute. I'm not sure if he was refferring to employees or budget, but either way, that's gotta be a failing system. A system that is no doubt employing blackfellas, and no doubt a heap of whitefellas, with lots good people and good intentions. But no doubt with lots of gravy train riders from both sides as well.

The standard MO has been to focus on preserving and encouraging aboriginal culture. A noble cause, and a worthy one, but when that is all you're doing I think you leave the situation a little wanting. And, you leave aboriginals a little vulnerable in the modern world. Vulnerable to all the problems impoverished white australian communities face, all the vices, all the easy ways out. And, to be brutal, the whitey academics come across as museum curators, tending to their little exhibit.

Noel pearson talks of 'the poison of welfare'. The leftys write him off, because he was john howards bitch, and because you can't talk about the dole in any context, be it blackfella or whitefella. But it is a huge contributing factor. And I don't intend to judge blackfellas when saying that because there's more to the story. Whiteman took the aboriginals off of their land, took them away from their means of survival, and put them in reservations, making them dependent on the government for food and shelter. Whiteman created this mess of dependence which has become culture. And as we all well know, culture is difficult to change.

The difficulty with remote communities is the lack of opportunities and outside iinfuences. They are a little cocoon of blackfella culture (generally good) infiltrated with whitefella vices (no generally, just flat out bad). But the whitey academics are so beholden to their little mesuem exhibit model, they are unwilling to consider any alternatives.

All this seened fine circa 1988. When australia was a very different place, with a treaty on the horizon, but now, as technology and globalisation have changed everything, its all starting to look like a bit of a pipedream.

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CryptoKnight commented Thursday, 30 Aug 2018 at 12:31pm

FFS

"Titles are simultaneously the most difficult and the easiest symbols of authority to acquire. To earn a title normally takes years of work and achievement. Yet, it is possible for somebody who has put in none of this effort to adopt the mere label and receive an automatic difference" Cialdini 181)."

'swillnuttus maximus'... or swillnut in a nutshell.

Remember sypkly poppins when you so boldly swillnutted about your high achievements in Indigenous studies and colonialism. Yet, you come up with the tripe below?

'Interesting stuff about the language. I imagine it ties in a bit with aboriginal peoples very different view of shame. I cannot claim to understand it, as it all seems very subtle. Subtle but very different, across many contexts. It also seems to get them in a lot 'trouble' (for want of a better word) in white man's eyes, in terms of education, work, and comfrontations. Interesting stuff.'

Something's not adding up sypkly. Its a huge researched and applied topic, pretty basic if you are truly actually studying warfare, invasion, genocide. The Romans were masters. Like I said, serial killers dressed up like the fucking waltons, fuck, the most dangerous kind. Bibles, still everywhere. Propaganda, can be disguised as marketing too, especially nowadays. Monster budgets. Even the very foundation of our constitution... even the befuddled, intermediate but expert little christian soldier (private spud peeler) dreamer is wondering.

The 'best' schools swear by it. Bit of maniac roman bullshit blurbed across the front means a lot. Brain dead morons marvel at the collosseum, buy a nice postcard. Morons. 'Hey, wow, you's are standing right where that young lassy got fucked by zebras before they torched her!!! Geeze the emporer and his boys and girls gave her few good 'ard reamin's leading up to it too!!! Oh what a day!!! What a wonder!!! What an empire!!! What a memory!!! Onward christian soldiers!!! We'll save yas... the Nungas need us now!!!

Did you happen to notice where that huge, unmissable maniacal blob of violence and bloodshed is on those maps sypkly? And how there was none in Australia, except recently, gee whiz, the big blob is splattering down there now, as well. More and more and more and more as the big blob, the expert in lying its guts out propaganda war machine gets sprung. The big blob likes the balance just the way it is too.

sypkly, you're the guy who's wife says, 'gee, I'm a bit worried about Jenny, she's going on a picnic with that ivan guy that they just let out.' 'Its ok love, I've had a great, civilised chat with ivan, and I really think he got my brilliant reasoning and civilized logic dear.' Newsflash... body of girl found in forest. Nup, some people love setting cats on fire sypkly, some people love humping babies, and some cultures love fucking and killing everything, any way they like. They like that balance. You talk all nice to them if you want sypkly. that doesn't work. Check the blob, the map, where it is now. Fuck it off. Serial killers don't deserve nice. It doesn't work.

So we get to the dreamers racist, serial killer crap. The brave little christian soldier, hiding behind the tanks and bombs. Sinking the boots in.

"Titles are simultaneously the most difficult and the easiest symbols of authority to acquire. To earn a title normally takes years of work and achievement. Yet, it is possible for somebody who has put in none of this effort to adopt the mere label and receive an automatic difference" Cialdini 181)."

You are making your fucking text book, ludicrous, 'intermediate' but expert share trading joke look like the work of a genius with this latest shit dreamer. FFS.

Remember this?

'Is it about skin colour or DNA...NO its about culture, thousands of years of culture, something that just doesn't just disappear change quickly overnight.'

Now, who was the last culture to use genocide... oh look the blob is here... yaaaayyy!!!

'I finks it haz nuffink to do wiv hundruds ov yeers orv genorcides and stuff... our maniacal blob will sayve vem from awl vere wars and woman basherin stuff... i fink... expbertwy'

Fried any cats lately dreamer? sypkly poppins has got the coals ready!

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sypkan commented Thursday, 30 Aug 2018 at 1:52pm

I didn't "...boldly swillnutted about your high achievements in Indigenous studies and colonialism...". That's you putting words in people's mouth's again, as you guys love to do. So objective, so learned, so above that human condition of bias, that you know everything because of your (flawed) theories, and people with real world experience know nothing. You come across as that feminist chick debating jordan peterson, who got slaughtered btw. Who's so blinded by ideology and their own world view they cannot recieve any non corresponding information. Your theory (and feminist theory) challenges the notion of absolute truth, yet you don't adhere to the theory, neither did she, bloody hypocrits of the highest order!

I was just pointing out that your not the only one on here intelligent enough to play the academic system's classes in conformity enough to gain HD's. I only went there because you keep harping on about it. Just like turkeyman used to try and belittle anyone bold enough to challenge the status quo, by saying unversity geeks are everything, and nothing else matters. What happened to wholistic thought? Seeing the big picture? (where r u btw turkeyman? I really do miss you - not even being sarcastic). Or are you turkeyman? Or is turkeyman your lovechild as I once suggested.

Anyway I digress into the crypto vortex again. I don't dispute anything you have said cypto, though you're getting so cryptic, again, its difficult to know what you're actually saying crypticknight.

So, if we accept that european culture is warmongering and dominating, seeking territory to spread its self deluded supremecy of culture (which I do). And, we accept that aboriginal people practiced a relatively beautiful culture, happy to tick away peacefully in it's own baxkyard without the inclination to dominate (which I do) (for 60 000 years ...apparently....I heard somewhere). We are now at this point in history, driven by technology, where european culture is the dominant culture, with most honkeys seeing the error of their greedy colonist past ways, and that's what we have to work with.

This is where we're at, with all it's flaws and shortcomings. No matter how much you wish, and how much biased text you read, we're not going back to the indigenous wonderland of the past. What's the way forward oh biased wise one?

And are you willing to move back to your honkey homeland and leave the aboriginals to there own devices?

Because...as they say...everrything else is academic...and somewhat idealistic, to the point of being counterproductive. We need real solutions. There's a lot of goodwill on here in seeking them, but frankly, you keep arguing about the same old shit that ain't gonna happen. And you keep claiming people deny the history. Which is bullshit. Most people are not that ignorant, they are pragmatic...cue ivan milat response...again!!

Its you that has the supremecy complex and no one else. You, are worse than anyone on here.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=NJ9Fiv21qdY

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Terminal commented Thursday, 30 Aug 2018 at 2:26pm
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CryptoKnight commented Thursday, 30 Aug 2018 at 3:42pm

'I didn't "...boldly swillnutted about your high achievements in Indigenous studies and colonialism...".'

'And... I've tried to avoid spruiking my academic record, you're not the only one with a string of HD's to show off.'

Swillnut bullshit artist.

Dismissed again.

'Lets discuss heart surgery'. Sure, I know a lot about that, I'm highly qualified in the field.

'Fuck orf yew... corz eyme sykko poppins, bigg deel, corze eyme arrr faarkin quolafyde faaaarkin swillnut!!!' Annnd i gort a faaarkin rreewl lyve art aye!!!'

Idiot.

Whose the new stooge? The little christian dreamer has assembled a real little clan of redneck stooges.

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indo-dreaming commented Thursday, 30 Aug 2018 at 4:27pm

One half decent post and its back to the same same recycled post and insults and abuse.

Anyway this conversation is getting pretty boring, yes it's easy to get sucked into the vortex.

In regard to academics, in my experience most lack real life experience, id rather listen too what someone who has lived and knows a topic first hand has to say, than someone who believes they know it all and knows best because they did a degree or learnt what they know from a book or some other academic.

Politics is a great example of this, imagine how much better off Australia would be if politicians actually understood from first hand experience the issues they deal with.

It always confuses me how we can have leaders and minister overseeing areas that they have no experience in, like mentioned above Tony Abbot being appointed minister for Indigenous affairs. (or whatever the tittle is)

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CryptoKnight commented Thursday, 30 Aug 2018 at 4:41pm

Bitcoin Boogy 3... now playing!!!

https://www.swellnet.com/forums/wax/381069

"Titles are simultaneously the most difficult and the easiest symbols of authority to acquire. To earn a title normally takes years of work and achievement. Yet, it is possible for somebody who has put in none of this effort to adopt the mere label and receive an automatic difference" Cialdini 181)."

That bitcoin delusion is text book material. what a total, ludicrous, delusional debacle... starring:

'In regard to academics, in my experience most lack real life experience, id rather listen too what someone who has lived and knows a topic first hand has to say, than someone who believes they know it all and knows best because they learnt so much from a book or lecture.'

Your googled, 'intermediate' expert 'experiences' and judgement are proven to be fucking ludicrously stupid. In a nutshell.

'There is Indigenous leadership on these questions that is both visionary and practical. In 1987, Kevin Gilbert, a Wiradjuri man, produced a comprehensive critique of Australia’s claims to sovereignty, and the need to recognise the sovereignty of Indigenous peoples.

Irene Watson, a Tanganekald and Meintangk Boandik legal scholar and professor, points out that crises such as climate change are a call for a new relationship between Indigenous and non-Indigneous Australians and our environment. She shows how Indigenous moral and relational values provide a sound basis on which to build those new relationships.

Victoria Grieves, a Warraimaay historian, foresees a Republic of Australia based on the sovereignty of Aboriginal peoples. She says:

Australia could achieve absolute decolonisation and shared sovereignty and live up to the reputation we like to have, as a nation deeply concerned with human rights and social justice.

It is wrong-headed to think of “embracing” Indigenous peoples. Those with a western heritage must relinquish their arrogance, rewrite the distortions of their history, and place Indigenous interests at the forefront of social, economic and political concern.

We need to look beyond symbols to restitution: compensation, reparations and resource sharing. Indigenous peoples, through seeking a treaty, invite us to share in building an honourable future. Surely we can agree that Australia is worth it.

https://theconversation.com/indigenous-treaties-are-meaningless-without-...

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velocityjohnno commented Thursday, 30 Aug 2018 at 5:20pm

Sounds very similar to what was proposed for South Africa in 1994. How is that working out?

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indo-dreaming commented Thursday, 30 Aug 2018 at 5:48pm

Remote indigenous communities are as close as we have come to Indigenous self governess, where Indigenous culture is at its strongest, it's also the most problematic areas for a whole range of issues.

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CryptoKnight commented Thursday, 30 Aug 2018 at 5:54pm

Are we in South Africa? Dealing with Indigenous Australians?

60,000 years. 600 plus, different Cultural groups. Cultural success not even remotely matched ever, in human history.

'Those with a western heritage must relinquish their arrogance'

Bitcoin Boogy 4... 'fuck yer capitul aaayyyee'... 'intermediate' expert dreaming coming to a cinema near you!!!

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indo-dreaming commented Thursday, 30 Aug 2018 at 6:03pm

BTW If all humans came out of Africa including Indigenous Australians, what happened to the original Africans?

Aren't todays Africans from these first group of humans/homosapiens?

If so wouldn't this make them the oldest groups of humans/oldest culture?

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CryptoKnight commented Thursday, 30 Aug 2018 at 6:10pm

Bitcoin boogy 5... swillnut, intermediate, intermediate expert... BTW, fark ver farkin taxaychin and farkin numbas an shite!!!

Carry orn swillnuttin'

'Those with a western heritage must relinquish their arrogance'

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indo-dreaming commented Thursday, 30 Aug 2018 at 6:23pm

Bitcoin booggy 6

Maybe i shouldn't believe everything i read on Swellnet forums?

Not that it's important who's the oldest, its not some kind of competition, but this kind of makes more sense https://www.independent.co.uk/news/science/worlds-most-ancient-race-trac...

"The San people of southern Africa, who have lived as hunter-gatherers for thousands of years, are likely to be the oldest population of humans on Earth, according to the biggest and most detailed analysis of African DNA. The San, also known as bushmen, are directly descended from the original population of early human ancestors who gave rise to all other groups of Africans and, eventually, to the people who left the continent to populate other parts of the world."

And this interesting read http://www.convictcreations.com/aborigines/oldestculture.html

Just a snippet:

"The Out of Africa theory of human evolution proposes that humans evolved in Africa and started spreading across the globe around 200,000 years ago, reaching Australia around 50,000 years ago. For reasons that can be debated, a myth has emerged that the descendants of those humans that first arrived in Australia have a longer continuous culture than those that arrived in Asia, Europe and even those that never left Africa. In a sense, it is a myth that proposes that one branch is longer and older than the tree.

The myth has been proliferated by people such as former Australian prime minister Kevin Rudd and magazines like Australian Geographic, which wrote in 2011:"

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CryptoKnight commented Thursday, 30 Aug 2018 at 6:31pm

Bitcoin boogy 6... the 'intermediate', expert google... Nort vat ittts impootint aye, butt eyell neva buye farkin bitcoynes aye... aye howze mee farkin bitcoynze aye!!!

Professor Rebecca L. Cann, together with her colleague Alan C. Wilson, previously claimed that humanity can be traced to people living “about 200,000 years ago, probably in Africa”. But she later revoked that claim, declaring that “Mitochondrial DNA puts the origin of Homo Sapiens much further back and indicates that the Australian Aborigines arose 400,000 years ago from two distinct lineages, far earlier than any other racial group.” [2]

'Research by other scientists supports the theory that Australia’s Aboriginal people did not descend from ancestors in Africa or Siberia, but Australia.

Source: https://www.creativespirits.info/aboriginalculture/history/how-old-is-ab...'

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CryptoKnight commented Thursday, 30 Aug 2018 at 6:50pm

Bitcoin boogy infinity... 'Those with a western heritage must relinquish their arrogance' intrastin shite corz i'm jarst makin senz orv weye vey neederd genercidin' an shite, an weye weeze shuld bee vere bozzof evrywun aye!!!

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indo-dreaming commented Thursday, 30 Aug 2018 at 6:52pm

Ha ha....Maybe we should just post the whole page instead of cut and pasting the bit that you like.

Aboriginal history is the only history that grows both ways - forward into the present and backwards into the past as new scientific methods indicate that archaeological sites are much older than originally thought.

The origin of the Aboriginal people of Australia is not entirely clear. Some studies link Aboriginal people to the first African nomads or to Siberian ancestors [1].

One study determined that Aboriginal people descended from the first people to leave Africa up to 75,000 years ago, reaching Asia at least 24,000 years before other human migrants. Traversing into Australia “must have demanded exceptional survival skills and bravery,” said one researcher [1].

Studies published in 2016 confirm a migration out of Africa and place Aboriginal ancestors as the oldest continuous civilisation on Earth [6]. The extensive study of Aboriginal people’s DNA dates their origins to more than 50,000 years ago and shows that their ancestors were probably the first humans to journey across Asia and cross an ocean. The findings also show that these Aboriginal ancestors remained almost entirely isolated until around 4,000 years ago.

[Australian Aboriginal people] are probably the oldest group in the world that you can link to one particular place.

—Prof Eske Willerslev, evolutionary geneticist, University of Copenhagen [6]
Another study found that a primitive group of humans descended from the Neanderthals and migrated from Siberia to tropical parts of Asia [1]. They contributed DNA to Aboriginal people in Australia along with present-day New Guineans and an Aboriginal tribe of the Philippines. This mixing of genes was reported to have happened 44,000 years ago, before Australia separated from Papua New Guinea.

As scientific methods evolve they place the origin of the Homo Sapiens in Australia—not Africa.
Professor Rebecca L. Cann, together with her colleague Alan C. Wilson, previously claimed that humanity can be traced to people living “about 200,000 years ago, probably in Africa”. But she later revoked that claim, declaring that “Mitochondrial DNA puts the origin of Homo Sapiens much further back and indicates that the Australian Aborigines arose 400,000 years ago from two distinct lineages, far earlier than any other racial group.” [2]

Research by other scientists supports the theory that Australia’s Aboriginal people did not descend from ancestors in Africa or Siberia, but Australia.

Source: https://www.creativespirits.info/aboriginalculture/history/how-old-is-ab...

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indo-dreaming commented Thursday, 30 Aug 2018 at 6:54pm

So basically we have no idea, and no one can agree.

Probably more likely, we all came from the source out of Africa though, rather then different places, otherwise Indigenous Australians could be very different to other humans totally different species.

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sypkan commented Thursday, 30 Aug 2018 at 7:11pm

Hardly "bullshit" cryptokunt.

I was just explaining why I went there. It was because I was provoked. You, on the other hand, needed no provoking, you just like to make it all about you.

And, I was just clearing up that I said nothing about my studies being " ...in Indigenous studies and colonialism...". Those were your words, put in my mouth...again!

Even though that was a component of my studies, I said nothing of the sort. I was just clearing up the bullshit actually.

So I'll just leave you to talk to yourself...again!

And about yourself...again!

You do seem to have a little issue there cryptokunt. Daddy not pay you enough attention as a kid perhaps?

You're like a ten year old autistic boy. Look at me...look what I did...I'm the best...and on, and on, and on.... At least you've developed your special interest I guess. But you really could do with some self development to go with it.

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CryptoKnight commented Thursday, 30 Aug 2018 at 6:59pm

Bitcoin boogy infinity... 'Those with a western heritage must relinquish their arrogance' intrastin shite corz i'm jarst makin senz orv weye vey neederd genercidin' an shite, an weye weeze shuld bee vere bozzof evrywun aye!!! an i gort farkin redneck maaaytes aye!!!

[Australian Aboriginal people] are probably the oldest group in the world that you can link to one particular place.

—Prof Eske Willerslev, evolutionary geneticist, University of Copenhagen [6]
Another study found that a primitive group of humans descended from the Neanderthals and migrated from Siberia to tropical parts of Asia [1]. They contributed DNA to Aboriginal people in Australia along with present-day New Guineans and an Aboriginal tribe of the Philippines. This mixing of genes was reported to have happened 44,000 years ago, before Australia separated from Papua New Guinea.

As scientific methods evolve they place the origin of the Homo Sapiens in Australia—not Africa.
Professor Rebecca L. Cann, together with her colleague Alan C. Wilson, previously claimed that humanity can be traced to people living “about 200,000 years ago, probably in Africa”. But she later revoked that claim, declaring that “Mitochondrial DNA puts the origin of Homo Sapiens much further back and indicates that the Australian Aborigines arose 400,000 years ago from two distinct lineages, far earlier than any other racial group.” [2]

Research by other scientists supports the theory that Australia’s Aboriginal people did not descend from ancestors in Africa or Siberia, but Australia.

Source: https://www.creativespirits.info/aboriginalculture/history/how-old-is-ab...

Carry orn swillnuttin'

I'm off to train people... so I wont be posting... I won't just be bullshittin' I'm off to work... then posting on and on... at work... bullshit artist!!!

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indo-dreaming commented Thursday, 30 Aug 2018 at 7:18pm

Sorry Herc reality is we really don't know but seems most believe the out of Africa theory.

So again it's more opinion then fact, just like your perfect utopia pre colonisation theory where violence didn't exists that i debunked and you back peddled on..

BTW "Those with a western heritage must relinquish their arrogance' Maybe you should take your own advice.

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happyasS commented Thursday, 30 Aug 2018 at 8:11pm