The Necessity of Reparation for Historic Injustices

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bluediamond started the topic in Sunday, 25 Jul 2021 at 1:26pm

Uni assignment i did a few years ago. This is my take on things. I'm sure this will ruffle many feathers. I hope so.
Love Blue Diamond x

The Necessity of Reparation for Historic Injustices

Introduction – Compensatory Justice
Disparities between the standards of living of humans on this planet have long been a part of our history on this planet. From the wealthy nations of the West to the developing and undeveloped nations on this globe, the diversity in the quality of life when viewed from a moral standpoint are without a doubt grossly unfair.
In this paper I will look at why historic injustices do require some form of reparation. I take a strong stance that we are more obliged to solve current injustices than to provide reparation for every act of injustice in the past. In doing this I will first investigate the historic injustice of the Aboriginal people of Australia and I will look at the argument that they are entitled to some form of reparation and why.
I will incoroporate some interesting views from Jeremy Waldron, Robert Nozick and others which will help me slowly build to my conclusion that reparation should be in the form of Non Indigenous Australians surrendering some of our priveleges as a form of reparation.

Historic Injustices to Indigenous Australians:
Australia the continent was well inhabited for many years long before white settlement. It is commonly known that in 1788 Australia was colonised as a country under the rule of the British Empire, with total contempt for the fact that it was already inhabited by a native indigenous race of people.
The way the original inhabitants have been treated, including forced assimilation, execution, stolen families and not even allowed to be recognised as citizens for a large part of white Australia’s history are also well known facts. (Poole, 1999,pp114-142)
There exists now a situation where there is a large divide between Aboriginal and non Aboriginal Australian’s that can be traced back to the moment Australia was invaded by English settlers and the brutal and unfair treatment that has followed.
So at this point now, in 2013 what is the just and fair way to make amends for past actions?
I would argue that a moderate to large amount of reparation is overdue for this nation of people, the Aboriginal people. But there are many challenges to this view point especially that of how much reparation, and what sort of compensation.

Past injustices or present suffering?
One of the questions raised in an issue like this is whether it is better to provide compensation or reparation for past deeds, which have already been done in a previous generation and cannot be changed, or whether it is better to now provide assistance to those who are suffering in their current situations and consider that as a form of moral duty.
To understand this we need to delve a little deeper into this issue and hear some differing viewpoints.
Firstly we need to understand what the best way to provide reparation. How do we judge what is the best way of giving back and how much? Jeremy Waldron states “The historic record has a fragility that consists, …in the sheer contingency of what happened in the past” (Waldron,1992,p5 )
This is saying that we can’t trace every single injustice back to the original act therefore reparation for every act would be almost impossible because it would ultimately be guess work.
In this statement he has an objection from Robert Nozick who believes it is in fact possible to address this problem by “changing the present so that it resembles how the past would have looked had the injustice not taken place” (McKenzie, 2013)
This would be a way to ultimately provide maximum reparation, but is it the correct approach? I believe this is a fairly radical approach, although it does have some merits in the fact it would be working in a positive way for indigenous people, I don’t think it is entirely the right way to deal with these issues but it is on the right track.
Waldron argues that it is based on too many unknowns. “The status of counterfactual reasoning about the exercising of human reasoning of human freedom is unclear”(Waldron 1993,p10)
Which leaves the question somewhat open about the sort of reparation that is required, but provides one clear answer to the key question. Both agree that yes, reparation to some extent is required. But how much and in what form?
Another philosopher who leans more towards Waldron’s views is Kymlicka. He is somewhat more straightforward in his assessment that property rights in particular for Aboriginals would create “massive unfairness” and also he maintains the argument “Aboriginal rights must be grounded in concerns about equality and contemporary disadvantage. (McKenzie, 2013) I agree with both these views but I don’t think they provide any active solutions.

The Solution?
So if its not handing back all of Australia’s land to the original inhabitants that is the most appropriate way to deal with past injustices, then what is?
I look at the current country I grew up in, as a white Australian. I ask myself why I never had Aboriginal friends growing up, no understanding of Aboriginal culture and why my basic understanding of Indigenous Australians is mostly 200 years old. I look at our flag, a symbol of a nation that stole a country from its original inhabitants, with no recognition of the Indigenous people at all on it. I see that Australia considered Indigenous people as less than people until only 40 years ago and I see the way that Indigenous Australians live a completely separate life to the way of life I know as an Australian. I see that the only indigenous politician I am aware of is a former Olympian and it is because of this fact of her sporting status that I know this. I see no collective power or representation of Indigenous Australians and I see non Indigenous Australians,( a culture built on a history of stealing a land and mistreating its people) still taking, taking as much out of this land as they can, with little to no regard of sharing or giving to the original inhabitants. I see a government that says lots of words about ‘closing the gap’ and bringing the living standards of non- indigenous and indigenous Australians closer together, but apart from nice words, there is no conviction, no follow through, just assimilation , and all that still remains are injustices.
As stated by Sparrow, “Continuity gives rise to responsibility on part of present generations of Australians for our history”.(McKenzie,2013). Although deeds happened in the past beyond our control, what we do now to either ignore, or rectify these issues will reflect on us in history. So if we choose to do nothing, we are contributing to the history of the mistreatment of non- indigenous Australians. And this is simply unacceptable in my opinion.

Conclusion
So what is fair? I believe that the way forward is a surrendering of some of our privileges as non- indigenous Australians. The simple fact is it was morally wrong without a doubt what has happened in the past. And it is also morally wrong without a doubt to ignore these facts and not offer some form of reparation in the present. But how much?
I think that going back to Robert Nozick’s argument is a start. I think Nozick is wrong to make the present resemble the past in every aspect. But I do think that it would be reasonable to restore some aspects of the way things should be. The things that happened in the past were out of our control and we can’t go back to changing the way things were. But we could change the way things are.
For some examples. Why not give at least 50% of political power to indigenous people? It surely would be a fair thing to do considering this is their country. Media control. 50 percent. Industry. Realestate. The list goes on. Why do we not acknowledge the indigenous people on our flag, or better still use their flag? Why is Australia still a part of the Commonwealth when it serves little purpose to any of us and serves as a constant reminder to Indigenous Australians that they are still controlled by the original invaders. These to me are fairly simple reparations that would have minimal impact on Australia as a whole. Perhaps, it would alter the way we live but I think it is our responsibility, morally to forfeit some of our privileges for the greater good. Basically a little bit goes a long way.
In closing, it is a fact that a huge injustice occurred to the Indigenous population and suffering continues to this day. There is no easy solution to such a burden of pain. I believe the only solutions are for the non- Indigenous population to take responsibility and sacrifice our own way of life to bring about an overall equality. Sacrifice is not an easy word. But it all comes down to right and wrong. We are in a position to give, in this current generation. What are we so scared to lose, that was never ours in the first place??

Bibliography
McKenzie,C.”Prof” (2013), Lecture, Historic Injustices and Indigenous Rights, Macquarie University
Poole, R. (1999). Nation and Identity.Routledge, London, pp.114-142
Waldron,J. (1992). ‘Superseding Historic Injustice’. Ethics, 103 (1), 4-28

References
Poole, R. (1999). Nation and Identity.Routledge, London, pp.114-142
Waldron,J. (1992). ‘Superseding Historic Injustice’. Ethics, 103 (1), 4-28

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etarip Sunday, 17 Oct 2021 at 10:22am

I understand is as Dogs are pack animals, not racist. If you’re not part of ‘their’ pack, then they don’t like / trust you. If their ‘pack’ is predominantly Indonesian or Caucasian or whatever then they react to ‘others’. That’s compounded if the vibe of the humans to another group is hostile or fearful.

We don’t expect dogs to rationalise this. I definitely expect humans to. And I can’t stand humans who encourage it.

Our 2yo Kelpie is smart as a tack. Rescued from a farm a year ago and had some anxiety issues. She’s taken a while to get used to our friend from down the street who has severe cerebral palsy. He comes to hang out and play with our kids, taking them through blindfolded games etc. It’s been a journey.

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indo-dreaming Sunday, 17 Oct 2021 at 10:41am
Supafreak wrote:

@indo , my wife’s family dogs won’t come near me or let me pat them . I can feed them meat instead of the scraps the family gives them and they still bark at me and always keep their distance . There is only one other white guy in this area , a retired Australian married to my wife’s aunty . Dogs treat him the same way . I’ve always been a dog lover and generally like you , win them over pretty quickly. I had a little dachshund when I lived there that I had adopted from a bloke who was mistreating it , great little companion, unfortunately some wild beach dogs ripped his throat out .

Yeah it's weird.

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views from the ... Sunday, 17 Oct 2021 at 11:11am

When some of us lads do a trip away together, between ourselves we become the most rascist, sexist, mysogynistic, homophopic, amoral, abusive shitheads we can be.
And we laugh our heads off at what filth we can plumb.

P.S. And the lads includes a man of colour and a father of a gay son.

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Hutchy 19 Sunday, 17 Oct 2021 at 2:13pm

Brutus - I have commented , as demanded , on how I read , a long time ago , its genesis .

A reaction to Chinese land practices in the NT. I also said it wasn't brought in to throw the First nation people out . I also said IF it was directed solely at our first nation people in would have been brought in much earlier .

As the expert please tell me how I am wrong . ( Notice the please ) .

Don't be rude expecting me to do research . I wouldn't do it to you or expect you to tell me everything .

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etarip Sunday, 17 Oct 2021 at 3:10pm

I’m pretty sure it was primarily a response to Chinese Immigration on the goldfields in the late 19th century. Nothing to do with aboriginal peoples. They had other discriminatory laws for that, and the official view was that they were dying out anyway.

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tubeshooter Sunday, 17 Oct 2021 at 6:25pm

I think behaviour can be bred into dogs ,Hunting dogs have traits bred into them , any pig hunter knows to get stock from other hunting dogs , they just seem to instinctively know what to do with very little training ,. Same with working cattle sheep dogs etc.
We had to re home a blue heeler pup that was just off the rails when our aboriginal friends visited. It was fucking embarrassing . It actually came from a litter from a farmer in Walgett.
I'm not 100% sure if it get's ingrained in their DNA somehow , but from my experience , it's definitely plausible.
Many dogs are still trained to be aggressive towards aboriginals out west though ,and the methods , which I won't outline here, are ugly , and so are the people who use them.

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bonza Sunday, 17 Oct 2021 at 7:45pm
Hutchy 19 wrote:

Bonza - perhaps you will understand this example ?

State sponsored Terrorism versus terrorists that just happen to be based in a country .

A MASSIVE difference .

We have and will go to war against a State that deliberately sponsors terrorism .

And you write this abuse . "Their ancestors are alive today hopefully not reading your gutter talk for cheap thrills. Have some heart mate."

There are ancestors of the government leaders who you accuse of committing genocide alive today . I hope they are not reading your views .

How is your idea going to put up knee high fences up to stop cane toads ? Now that is a cheap thrill comment .

Hutch. Cane toads need water to breed. Cane toads are very good at at traversing large distances fast. They are not good at jumping. The migration of toads south and west is inevitable. What we can do is slow their migration to help out native species adapt to their presence. One way to do that is prevent their access to waterways. Large tough sedges and grasses around your dams for example are a good way of doing that as it slows and prevents their access effectively. If you can use a knee high hessian material this also works.

You’ve been sitting on that for weeks. You could have googled that in seconds but as usual you just wanna fight.

Lastly that comment about colonial ancestors. What a arsehole comment.

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bluediamond Sunday, 17 Oct 2021 at 11:53pm

Racist dogs eh? Sounds about where this convo should be at. Like i mentioned above with the names i mentioned. And a great time to leave.
Yep, I reckon my work here is done. Flight BD leaving the building...btw...you're spot on Goofyfoot. I'm a fuckwit. I judge myself harder than you ever could, but at the end of the day, we're just internet voices. But i haven't based a big chunk of my adult life on reading every single swellnet post like you proclaimed to have. So what does that make you? And for what it's worth, Indo was yapping away at me for days before that post. He could have posted a pic of him gardening and i would have written him off. All about context. But you love your impulsive potshots. All good!
BTW. Hutchy41. You are the invasive disease that will bring swellnets forums to it's knees. It's not sustainable to have a know it all who know's nothing continually shooting everyone down at the knees, regardless of their incomplete grasp of facts and your unwillingness to comprehend and actually engage in learning. It's a brave new world of Swellnet with Hutchy48 taking the reigns. Good luck all. I'll be back but not in this climate of self indulgent posturing over an issue that should be an innate part of our spiritual growth as civil, compassionate beings.

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Hutchy 19 Monday, 18 Oct 2021 at 7:36am

Bonza - all the cane toads I have encountered were VERY good hoppers . Knee high fence no problem .

Your inability to read and comprehend is legendary .

I said -"There are ancestors of the government leaders who you accuse of committing genocide alive today . I hope they are not reading your views ."

You said "colonial ancestors ".

Please try harder to avoid simple mistakes .

Blue diamond - SN is much stronger that you realise . So many good things on it . Smart people realise they don't have to read comments from people they don't like .

I wish I could say I will miss your abuse .

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Hutchy 19 Monday, 18 Oct 2021 at 8:12am

Blue Diamond - I know you won't leave SN for long and I am happy about that .

I am probably much older than you and so have a bit more experience . My job requires me to know a bit about a lot of subjects . Issues I want to know more about I do a bit of quick research .

There is an old adage that after doing an hours research on a topic you are an expert compared to most others who haven't .

People who are quick to abuse me or are overly judgemental I do probably shoot down at the knees to quickly . I am also not the only one . I believe I was way to quick to react when I first joined SN . It is my first go at social media .

I think I am getting a bit better at it as I am used to being abused now and have a very thick skin anyway . I am learning and always strive to .

I maybe a disease but unlike Covid you don't need to go into lockdown . I am easy to avoid .

Good luck to you .

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seeds Monday, 18 Oct 2021 at 8:17am
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Hutchy 19 Monday, 18 Oct 2021 at 8:35am

seeds . I have never measured there hop height . The article said they are unable to jump very high . Is knee high very high ?

I might be wrong and Bonza might be onto something . Maybe we can build a low wall across Australia ?

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GuySmiley Monday, 18 Oct 2021 at 10:21am

@BD, I valued your thoughtful contributions here on SN where fact bumps up against fantasy on a daily basis. Hope you continue to fight the good fight, cheers mate.

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Hiccups Monday, 18 Oct 2021 at 10:54am
Hutchy 19 wrote:

There is an old adage that after doing an hours research on a topic you are an expert compared to most others who haven't .

Ah yes. That classic old adage.

Wtf are you smoking?

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brutus Monday, 18 Oct 2021 at 11:12am

Hutchy, like BD that'll do me......it's all getting a bit dumber than dumb.......sometimes when I talk to you and try and get you to read links , or do a bit of research....well it's a one way street....as you can tell I love actually looking for the links/ information which means I am learning all the time...that's the point of forums for me, is learning , creating opinions based on the facts/stats at hand......
SN seems to have turned into Right and left......I have learnt a lot , but my Global business's are calling.....good luck with your shallow general knowledge....

I will leave you with , for me , a bit of humour that for me is a descriptive of Donald Trump and his right wing supporters and in this case a guy running for State legislature who was on the Dons International Rapid Response Team........." if we take all the boats and ships out of the water/oceans this will stop Sea Level rise!".....I think he injected himself with bleach....or once again we see trump supporters /workers in the bottom of the IQ ladder...just like don!
https://au.news.yahoo.com/pro-trump-candidate-suggests-taking-063650844....

Hutchy 19 wrote:

Brutus - I have commented , as demanded , on how I read , a long time ago , its genesis .

A reaction to Chinese land practices in the NT. I also said it wasn't brought in to throw the First nation people out . I also said IF it was directed solely at our first nation people in would have been brought in much earlier .

As the expert please tell me how I am wrong . ( Notice the please ) .

Don't be rude expecting me to do research . I wouldn't do it to you or expect you to tell me everything .

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seeds Monday, 18 Oct 2021 at 11:15am

He’s licking toads me thinks Hiccups
The high jumping variety

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tonys-shirtfront Monday, 18 Oct 2021 at 11:30am

Traits of a Narcissistic Psychopath:

-grandiose sense of self-importance
-lives in a fantasy world which supports their delusions of grandeur
-needs constant praise and admiration
-sense of entitlement
-exploits others without guilt or shame
-frequently demeans, intimidates, bullies or belittles others

Sounds like an accurate description of somebody on here....

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Hutchy 19 Monday, 18 Oct 2021 at 11:31am

Brutus - some more general comments .

You have asked me questions , which I always try to reply to , and often I don't get a response eg genesis of White Australia policy .

I have read most of the links suggested by you and others and am often saddened at what I read eg Uluru Statement ( what a missed opportunity to make positive changes , how is the referendum going because I haven't heard anything about it ) .

You , unfortunately , are fixated on the past . You are showing every day your resentment of colonialism , capitalism and Trump for example .

I am fixated on the future . I look at the past to ensure I don't make repeated mistakes .

I know I can't change the past . I want to have the courage to change myself and issues I can affect NOW so the future will be brighter .

I apologise that my way of communicating is interpreted by you as " a bit dumber than dumb..."

Definitely not my intention .

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stunet Monday, 18 Oct 2021 at 11:38am

Hutchy,

Everyone is suffocating under piles of your overzealous yet underwhelming opinions.

You win every argument based on nothing but volume.

Can you just back off, mate?

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seeds Monday, 18 Oct 2021 at 11:42am
tonys-shirtfront wrote:

Traits of a Narcissistic Psychopath:

-grandiose sense of self-importance
-lives in a fantasy world which supports their delusions of grandeur
-needs constant praise and admiration
-sense of entitlement
-exploits others without guilt or shame
-frequently demeans, intimidates, bullies or belittles others

Sounds like an accurate description of somebody on here....

He did reveal the other day that he’s a Dutchman. Same same as you described Mr Shirtfront

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Hutchy 19 Monday, 18 Oct 2021 at 11:42am

You are funny Tony .

"-needs constant praise and admiration"

All I get is abuse with many swearing , calling me a drug addict , and constantly trying to intimidate me .

It doesn't work as I hope you have noticed .

This comment may be right if changed slightly -"-lives ( change to- comments on SN ) in a fantasy world which supports their delusions of grandeur "

You need another Psychological description .

I hope , unlike your picture , the cupboard is not bare .

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GuySmiley Monday, 18 Oct 2021 at 12:12pm

@bluediamond
@brutus

again your thoughtful contributions here were greatly appreciated, I’m sure by many not just me.

I would encourage you to both to stay while simply ignoring those who are here for less than noble reasons as irritating the petulant pisshands can be.

it’s a worthy fight

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gragagan Monday, 18 Oct 2021 at 12:36pm

Agreed GS, much appreciated

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Hutchy 19 Monday, 18 Oct 2021 at 1:05pm

Stu - I have only commented today to people you have sent a post to me ( except where I congratulated Craig on his La Nina work ) or have abused or had something negative to say to me .

Others defend themselves with much greater vigour , swearing and abuse than I do and I am the ONLY one you tell to back off . Is this because you don't like my opinions ?

All other posts were facts or others opinions that I thought may be of interest .

Seeds - I said my mother was born in Holland .

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seeds Monday, 18 Oct 2021 at 1:18pm

No diff Dutchy. It runs in your genes and explains a lot

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Hutchy 19 Monday, 18 Oct 2021 at 1:23pm

VERY happy my genes . Mum provided a very good seed seed .

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san Guine Monday, 18 Oct 2021 at 1:42pm

Boomshanka

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Hutchy 19 Monday, 18 Oct 2021 at 1:51pm

SG - Hilarious .

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san Guine Monday, 18 Oct 2021 at 2:32pm

Hutchy,
Yes, but nothing to do with this thread...The Necessity of Reparation for Historic Injustices

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Hutchy 19 Monday, 18 Oct 2021 at 2:48pm

SG - I mentioned my Dutch heritage in post responding to some normal abuse about having NFI about the racial abuse of White Wogs .

Happy to see your very funny video about my genes .

Levity , like a good surf , can break a cycle !

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GuySmiley Monday, 18 Oct 2021 at 6:00pm

To my knowledge I’ve only ever worked with one person of Dutch heritage. He was a senior manager and at the time I was a pleb so while I had little to do with him personally his reputation preceded him everywhere he went. The way he expressed himself and acted to staff and clients was so bad he was universally disliked. One way he used to “impose” himself was to walk into a meeting with clients with his right hand down his pants adjusting himself before pulling it out and insisting people shake his hand. He went through secretaries who were always in tears at his poor treatment. I tell this story as I was in a heated meeting once where other junior managers confronted him with his poor behaviour, it was a very willing affair that went straight over his head with seemingly no understanding how his behaviour impacted on others His defence repeated time and time again while smirking ? “... but I’m only a simple Dutch social worker”

After the meeting it was open warfare. He used binoculars to spy on couples rooting in the high rise hotel across the road most days behind his closed office door. The hotel manager was contacted, given the sordid details along with the State Manager’s name and phone number. The hotel then hired a private investigator to photograph the manager spying through his binoculars and within a week he was sacked and the department had the biggest Friday night’s drink session that was talked about for years. This guy seriously hadn’t a clue how his exceeding poor behaviour and expression impacted poorly on his staff and clients.

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indo-dreaming Monday, 18 Oct 2021 at 6:08pm

Funny Hutchy that you and me both have Dutch heritage and we are the two token conservatives here, but the Dutch are generally thought of being quite progressive in many ways legalised prostitution, relaxed drug laws etc

What's up with that?

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seeds Monday, 18 Oct 2021 at 7:09pm

I think you’re father and son

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bluediamond Tuesday, 19 Oct 2021 at 12:54am

Thanks GS :)

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brutus Tuesday, 19 Oct 2021 at 9:48am
indo-dreaming wrote:

Funny Hutchy that you and me both have Dutch heritage and we are the two token conservatives here, but the Dutch are generally thought of being quite progressive in many ways legalised prostitution, relaxed drug laws etc

What's up with that?

Indo couldn't resist ......yes there is a progressive part of Dutch culture , but also a dark side called the Afrikaans/Boers.....which as you know was , wait for it ......was colonialization of South Africa, and still to this day Afrikaans of dutch descent are seen as the creators or mainstay of Apartheid .
So yeah it's pretty obvious you and Hutchy are cut from the same cloth, but Indo , you actually are very strong in your opinions because of your sources of Information.....
Just so you know a few people behind the scenes have contacted me and ask that I keep posting about Indigenous affairs , and what we are currently learning about "our" history , and the debunking of myths on people like Tom Wills/Batman etc.......so here's an interesting one from the Age...about how all the stories about indigenous issues etc have been told by whitemen, which of course is only one side of the story...
It's a very well written article about the Age newspapers coverage of indigenous affairs , how not so long ago , to put an article about indigenous issues on the fron page , meant low sales of the paper....to how now, there is a very strong climate in Australia in addressing our First peoples issues , by seeing History from their point of view.....very exciting times as their voice gets stronger and now the majority of Australians are open minded enough to re-educate themselves on Australia's history and what affects a revised history means for all of us!
Hutchy I am not going to answer you , as I don't believe you have anything to add here in the way of opinions ....
https://www.theage.com.au/national/victoria/the-age-s-truth-indigenous-s...

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Constance B Gibson Tuesday, 19 Oct 2021 at 2:34pm

"I think you’re father and son."

Hahaha, Seeds! Bingo!

Hutchy 91 is id in 20 years!

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Hutchy 19 Tuesday, 19 Oct 2021 at 2:48pm

More like brothers in arms imo . No one is 20 years older than me and still surfs .

Brutus wrote - " Hutchy I am not going to answer you ,"

I don't care ! Etarip has already confirmed my memory is still ( sometimes ) working well .

As usual you resent a former colonial power actions . A lot of countries to resent Brutus . If I thought it may make a difference I would give many examples of how the Dutch welcomed the persecuted .

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Constance B Gibson Tuesday, 19 Oct 2021 at 4:22pm

Speaking of colonial powers, here's an investigation into our first lot here in Oz, the British:

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/oct/17/slaughter-in-indonesia-bri...

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brutus Tuesday, 19 Oct 2021 at 4:43pm
Constance B Gibson wrote:

Speaking of colonial powers, here's an investigation into our first lot here in Oz, the British:

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/oct/17/slaughter-in-indonesia-bri...

yep I think the last paragraph explains it well..."According to Prof Scott Lucas of the University of Birmingham, the declassified documents show that: “Britain was prepared to engage in dirty deeds which ran contrary to its purported values.” They reveal, he says, “how important black propaganda was to give the illusion that Britain could wield global power – even if many people might be killed for that illusion”.
100,000 + people killed in the name of the Colonial Empire.....

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Hutchy 19 Tuesday, 19 Oct 2021 at 5:44pm

Interested in anyone's opinion on which country would have been a better option to colonise Australia ?

Choice is from Spain , Dutch , Portugues , Belgium , Chinese , Japanese , Americans , French , Germans and probably another country I have failed to name .

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indo-dreaming Tuesday, 19 Oct 2021 at 5:51pm
seeds wrote:

I think you’re father and son

Ha ha i was actually going to make a similar joke myself.

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indo-dreaming Tuesday, 19 Oct 2021 at 5:52pm

@ Brutus

To be honest for now i really don't have much to add to this conversation it feels like it's run its course and just running around in circles or turning into back and forth niggles.

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bluediamond Tuesday, 19 Oct 2021 at 7:53pm

The conversation has run its natural course.....until now. That's why this thread was started.. This conversation is only just starting. And ots gonna be raw and bring up some stark realities of where we fit in. Embrace the fear, embrace the darkness. No way forward without it. Anyone read the 400 pages yet. Its sll there.
Sorry, I'm not here. Apologies.

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Constance B Gibson Tuesday, 19 Oct 2021 at 8:01pm

Yeah, positive things are afoot. You've gotta believe!

And don't let the bastards grind you down!

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bluediamond Tuesday, 19 Oct 2021 at 9:33pm

:-D Cheers Constance. Legend.

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etarip Tuesday, 19 Oct 2021 at 9:39pm
Hutchy 19 wrote:

More like brothers in arms imo . No one is 20 years older than me and still surfs .

Brutus wrote - " Hutchy I am not going to answer you ,"

I don't care ! Etarip has already confirmed my memory is still ( sometimes ) working well .

What the hell are you talking about?

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Hutchy 19 Wednesday, 20 Oct 2021 at 7:20am

Etarip . Midnight Oils's song is relevant for your comment - Short Memory .

"I’m pretty sure it was primarily a response to Chinese Immigration on the goldfields in the late 19th century. Nothing to do with aboriginal peoples. "

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etarip Wednesday, 20 Oct 2021 at 7:55am

Yeah, I thought that was what you were referring to. You might want to get your memory checked.
You said it was to do with: “A reaction to Chinese land practices in the NT”

I said I didn’t think it had anything to do with that. But you just keep on keeping on if that floats your boat.

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indo-dreaming Wednesday, 20 Oct 2021 at 7:54am
bluediamond wrote:

The conversation has run its natural course.....until now. That's why this thread was started.. This conversation is only just starting. And ots gonna be raw and bring up some stark realities of where we fit in. Embrace the fear, embrace the darkness. No way forward without it. Anyone read the 400 pages yet. Its sll there.
Sorry, I'm not here. Apologies.

Im sorry i dont agree, i think things will just run the same course and little will change, it will just be more of the same for a very long time maybe forever.

It's not politically correct to dig deeper and its a much harder route to take, change will only ever happen around almost all indigenous issues if the blame game stops and personal ownership is taken and the rose coloured glasses are taken off. (instead of being painted with more rose)

It's not unique to this issue it's the same for any issue for a group or individual, if you aren't honest with yourself and the issue and own it and take personal responsibility, it's almost impossible to move forward and deal with the problems, others can offer help and help to a degree but in almost all cases change needs to come from within.

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Hutchy 19 Wednesday, 20 Oct 2021 at 8:16am

Ind - I agree 100% with your post !

Etarip - I read a detailed account on what happened in the NT . It was a long time ago .

Your nastiness is so common on this thread and site .

Seems that we were both a bit off the mark .

https://www.britannica.com/

The Australian colonies had passed restrictive legislation as early as the 1860s. This was directed specifically at Chinese immigrants, but later a popular cry was raised against the increasingly numerous Japanese—especially after Japan’s victory over China in the 1894–95 Sino-Japanese War—and against South Asians and Kanakas (South Pacific islanders) as well. Fear of military invasion by Japan, the threat to the standard of living that was thought to be presented by the cheap but efficient Asian labourers, and white racism were the principal factors behind the White Australia movement.