The best photos and videos from Europe's XXL swell

Stu Nettle
Swellnet Dispatch

Here it is, all the (worthwhile) footage released so far from the largest swell to hit Europe in recent times. See comments below for still images and check back as we update the content.

The best footage of Mullaghmore Head yet. Filmed by the BBC so it comes with drippings of non-surfer cheese. Wasn't as big as expected.

Early vision from Nazare. Obvious why no-one ventured out. Plenty of size but.

Belharra. First evening of swell. No surfing but lots of big, clean waves breaking.

Belharra. Lots of waves ridden. Shot from the water. Fuzzy footage.

The best footage from Belharra yet.

A few waves at La Verdad, Spain. Big and clean but a bit meh.

Shane Dorian, Belharra. XXL 'Ride of the Year' entry.

Anchor Point, Morocco.

Comments

Craig's picture
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Craig Wednesday, 8 Jan 2014 at 12:43pm

And some images from around the web:

Nazare by mcnamara_s: http://instagram.com/mcnamara_s

Nazare by sem_len: http://instagram.com/sem_len

Nazare by sem_len: http://instagram.com/sem_len

Peniche by escolasurfpeniche: http://instagram.com/escolasurfpeniche

Photo by sectionbodyboarding: http://instagram.com/sectionbodyboarding

Mullaghmore by northcore_surf: http://instagram.com/northcore_surf

Kernow by jay_mk2: http://instagram.com/jay_mk2

Roka Puta by deflowsurf: http://instagram.com/deflowsurf

Roka Puta by imanolyeregi: http://instagram.com/imanolyeregi

Photo by imanolyeregi: http://instagram.com/imanolyeregi

Donegal by northcore_surf: http://instagram.com/northcore_surf

Anchor Point by frokostjuice: http://instagram.com/frokostjuice

Anchor Point by frokostjuice: http://instagram.com/frokostjuice

Anchor Point by frokostjuice: http://instagram.com/frokostjuice

freeride76's picture
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freeride76 Wednesday, 8 Jan 2014 at 1:21pm

Looked pretty hoaxed out and very underwhelming to be honest.

Anchor point looked like a bog standard 6-8ft S swell day at the Point.

And Belharra is sure no Jaws or Mavericks.

Am I the only one who finds these massive euro-burgers not that exciting too watch?

But Craig, I sure do appreciate the time and effort taken to collate them and put them in one place. Cheers mate.

Craig's picture
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Craig Wednesday, 8 Jan 2014 at 4:19pm

Yeah, they just don't have the amount of waves or coastline that would absolutely ignite if the same swell was hitting around cetrain parts of Australia.

I wouldn't say hoaxed out, looks bloody massive still to me. Underwhelming yes, especially that Belharra wave, but Jamie's paddle bomb is stupidly big!

mundies's picture
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mundies Thursday, 9 Jan 2014 at 6:30pm

I hear you. Belharra burgers. But so much water moving and difficult penetration on a wipeout would certainly require a good set of lungs and entail a good vigorous rag doll.

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fitzroy-21 Wednesday, 8 Jan 2014 at 1:25pm

Mullaghmore was probably the better and whilst the rest where impressive in size, that was about it for me. Mind you, be fucked if you'd see me out there, so kudos to those with the nads that did.

Anything on Mundaka? Did it get any?

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derra83 Wednesday, 8 Jan 2014 at 1:59pm

I agree, though there's something special about a swell that hits eight different countries at once. A collective euphoria and shared feeling that's hard to beat.

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derra83 Wednesday, 8 Jan 2014 at 1:59pm

Check this video. Only 30 seconds, watch it till the end.

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=625773577483265&set=vb.157183714342...

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stunet Wednesday, 8 Jan 2014 at 2:03pm

I only found one video of Mundaka, Fitz. Didn't seem to be shot by a surfer as it was pulled back and not focussed on the waves very well. It was bloody big but and seemed to be breaking off the bank, no barrells. I expect we'll see more and better shot videos shortly.

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fitzroy-21 Wednesday, 8 Jan 2014 at 2:19pm

Cheers Stu.

There has been some pretty impessive shots of serious size and I've found that some of the non-surfing ones have been the best. Would love to have been there to see it live though as photos and footage never really do it justice.

Thanks for keeping us up to date with all the photos, footage and links though guys. Appreciated.

Fitzy

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caml Wednesday, 8 Jan 2014 at 3:16pm

Freeride mate i agree i was expecting bigger but im sure you have underestimated the anchor point pics . That is many times overhead

reecen's picture
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reecen Wednesday, 8 Jan 2014 at 6:17pm

Those Anchor point photos got me going that looks awesome.

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caml Wednesday, 8 Jan 2014 at 3:39pm

Jamie mitchell hasnt let australia down as usual . That pic of him taking off at belharra is massive. Go aussie !

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thermalben Wednesday, 8 Jan 2014 at 3:48pm

Yeah Jamie's wave is phenomenal. How's this zoomed in image from the Billabong XXL site.. what a beast!

mundies's picture
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mundies Thursday, 9 Jan 2014 at 6:34pm

clearly that is not a burger

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kylem71 Friday, 10 Jan 2014 at 7:24pm

thermalben wrote: Yeah Jamie's wave is phenomenal. How's this zoomed in image from the Billabong XXL site.. what a beast!

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kylem71 Friday, 10 Jan 2014 at 7:27pm

what size board is he riding. at least ten of them for the size of the wave.6 foot of the board is out of the water. great shot Aurelian

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zenagain Wednesday, 8 Jan 2014 at 4:05pm

Wow! That aint no mushburger.

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stunet Wednesday, 8 Jan 2014 at 4:07pm

Doesn't make it but, he falls when the board reconnects. It's in one of the videos above. 

Grand effort tho'...

 

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derra83 Wednesday, 8 Jan 2014 at 4:09pm

What's that mean for Billabong XXL qualification??? Does it count.

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top-to-bottom-bells Wednesday, 8 Jan 2014 at 4:10pm

Someone get Laird on the line.

freeride76's picture
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freeride76 Wednesday, 8 Jan 2014 at 4:50pm

where was Laird? Any truth to the rumour he was planning a westerly windina style makeover to compete with Maya?

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mundies Thursday, 9 Jan 2014 at 6:35pm

Thats a new thread right there free ride.

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stunet Wednesday, 8 Jan 2014 at 5:44pm

Loretta Hamilton? I like it...

Bit of demolition work on the Pomgolian foreshore:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-25639777#TWEET1005900

Craig's picture
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Craig Wednesday, 8 Jan 2014 at 5:48pm

Those before/afters are pretty incredible.

Probably been there for hundered/thousands of years and then boom, gone :o

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s-l Thursday, 9 Jan 2014 at 8:42am

I hope Maurice Cole and all the South Oz whingers aren't looking at these photo's.
We don't want to entice people to Go and expose spots in Europe.
I used to paddle all these spots solo years back.
now look at it.
bunch of guys come and take over, just for a photo opportunity.
lost it's soul.

bloody bastards.
i could surf anywhere i want, but belharra was my spot of choice as i hate sucky waves,
and all these heroes come to my fat reef and expose it to all the southAustralians.
bastards!.
hahahahahahaha

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caml Thursday, 9 Jan 2014 at 8:48am

I wonder if this surf was the biggest that the pro crew have ever experienced . Wayne webster told me that twiggy had two boards break at belharra !. His boards are glassed stronger than anyone that iv heard of . He has immediatly asked for custom shape big wave gun 12" x 23" x 4"1/4 . And twig is a 80 kilo guy .

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udo Thursday, 9 Jan 2014 at 8:54am

almost s.u.p dimensions

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caml Thursday, 9 Jan 2014 at 9:08am

Wayne shapes twigs boards by the way . I wonder how big boards will get & how far big wave surfing will go . How big a board can be used succesfully . Goodluck flying with your quiver

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stunet Thursday, 9 Jan 2014 at 9:51am

Jamie Mitchell's beast at the 2:45 mark...

 

 

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mitchvg Thursday, 9 Jan 2014 at 10:13am

By the looks of instagram, Garett Macnamara has been at an industry show in the US???

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stunet Thursday, 9 Jan 2014 at 12:52pm

Fun little vid from Alan Stokes taken somwhere on a (slightly) more protected coast of Pomgolia.

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stunet Thursday, 9 Jan 2014 at 1:10pm

Young Spanish surfer Imanol Yeregi on an absolutely beautiful wave. Big too. Well worth watching this vid.

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Craig Thursday, 9 Jan 2014 at 1:20pm

That first Stoker video is bullshit, so big and perfect!

Second one is cracker as well, big big wave and full commitment.

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upnorth Thursday, 9 Jan 2014 at 1:52pm

Hats off to the guys tackling these waves, probably not as perfect as was forecast but still plenty big enough. Don't think you can really compare the likes of Mullaghmore with Oz, paddling out in those parts in mid winter when its flat is a different beast, to do it in these sorts of waves deserves much respect.

Craig's picture
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Craig Thursday, 9 Jan 2014 at 3:33pm

How's this epic France beachy barrel from Shane Dorian http://instagram.com/p/i6rO0VnOE2/

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dumpy Thursday, 9 Jan 2014 at 5:47pm

thankyou for compiling all this - great to see it in one place!

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udo Thursday, 9 Jan 2014 at 9:10pm

on surfline Jamie mitchell talks about ' that wave ' and the following flogging.

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southey Thursday, 9 Jan 2014 at 9:29pm

Sterling Effort that ... !? ;-) Mitchell needs to be applauded for going , even though he was probably not quite far enough out ...

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udo Thursday, 9 Jan 2014 at 9:41pm

yep stirling- Mitchell mixup .....had previously just been reading Jamie sterling re kirk passmore death.

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southey Thursday, 9 Jan 2014 at 9:50pm

I'm sure your not the first ..... I reckon Stirling would be proud to have won so many Molokai paddles . And Mitch , refused to tow so he didn't keep getting mixed up ? Stirling and Walsh are cool blokes , shared a wave or two in the NW .

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mick-free Thursday, 9 Jan 2014 at 11:07pm

Couple of amazing photos @

http://www.thesurfchannel.com/slide/top-10-hercules-storm-swell-images/

Southey shared a few sessions with Jamie Stirling last week Dec in Hawaii. He was surfing well and looked pretty fit. Was a nice guy in the lineup. I'm not sure if he went to Europe though.

Interested what J. Mitchell said on net ie another pulse in the arvo and the swell peaked overnight (Monday). I have heard Ben talk about how these massive swells have a possible 2-3 hour window where the waves are at there biggest. Does anyone have data on some wave buoys and measurements for what the swell was doing in the dark?

The Weather forecasters where calling it the biggest storm ever in the Atlantic - bigger than the 1991 Halloween or Perfect storm. What conditions are going to create a 100 foot wave face. Ie. if you have 60 knots blowing over 6000 miles of ocean generating a 10m 19 second period swell, then whats next to get the extra 40 feet??

Has anyone made the measurement on Jamie Mitchell's wave? Dorian says 60 foot.

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mick-free Thursday, 9 Jan 2014 at 11:09pm
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southey Thursday, 9 Jan 2014 at 11:56pm

Mick . Someone wrote Stirling not Mitchell . Hence his name . i still remember that tube he got at Waimea when he was like 16 or something ridiculous ....

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uplift Friday, 10 Jan 2014 at 1:16am
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velocityjohnno Friday, 10 Jan 2014 at 8:05am

Great links and thread. So much to explore over that way. So good to see Paddle-in done like that, on boards like that. Brilliant. (I dunno Caml about how big boards will get but a fellow here surfs a 12' and back in the late '50's they had 11'+ Elephant Guns) If you look at what it did to the coastline, that was a serious amount of energy.

Anyone noticed the likeness of Jamie Mitchell's wave to the Gonad Man comics?

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stunet Friday, 10 Jan 2014 at 8:49am

First vid I've found of Mundaka. Not terribly well shot but there's a few good waves toward the end. It was filmed on the 4th and 5th of January and shows some very big waves coming through. The real big day was the 6th and I'm wondering if the reason there's no Mundaka videos from that day is 'cos it was too big. 

 

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stunet Friday, 10 Jan 2014 at 9:06am

Two waves (one shown above) ridden by Imanol Yergi at Roka Puta in Basque country.

 

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mick-free Friday, 10 Jan 2014 at 9:39am

Great work Stu. Morroco looked like the place to be for the 7th

Twiggy is seen paddling over Mitchell's wave. I wonder if he thought about going the next one.

For all the hype we are not seeing a lot of this documented.

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caml Friday, 10 Jan 2014 at 11:04am

Vjohnno was thinking more like 13-18ft long big wave guns to ride 80ft waves paddle in . Cos thats where theyre gonna take it next few yrs

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stunet Friday, 10 Jan 2014 at 11:09am

Camel...really? 18 foot long boards...?

Not doubting you, I might add, just blown away. Equipment has to keep pace with the ambitions of the new paddle crew, but shit, good luck nursing an 18 foot board off the bottom at maxing Peahi.

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zenagain Friday, 10 Jan 2014 at 11:14am

There's an 8'10" Rusty epoxy for sale just down the road here, 23" and 3"+ thick, it just looks huge on the rack. I can't fathom a 12ft board or an 18ft board for that matter. There's smaller tinnies out there.

Wicked thread Swellnet, hats off to those guys to take on that sort of stuff.

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udo Friday, 10 Jan 2014 at 11:31am

Benjamin sanchis is a bit of legend, from wheres is Sancho nias , backhand tube fest at deserts to having a go at belharra and getting caught under that fucking bomb.

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mick-free Friday, 10 Jan 2014 at 12:04pm

That brings into play Jamie Mitchell and the paddle board technology and adapting that to help catch an 80 foot wave. Seems like those guys got some ideas from this session.

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reecen Friday, 10 Jan 2014 at 12:47pm

The problem when you start going super long it they bounce like bitches when they hit chops. So many variables as well when you want to start trading off paddle speed for stability once you are on a wave.
If you cant get into the things in the first place though you have no chance no matter how stable the board is.
How can you get that first boost to get onto a wave without it being power assisted? Extra waterline length does help, but then you have to control all that extra length.
No one uses the webbed gloves, surely they give some extra paddle thrust?

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zenagain Friday, 10 Jan 2014 at 1:49pm

Good point reecen, I'm very surprised nobody has taken on the Webs. Especially when those waves are moving so fast and every little bit of paddling power counts.

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uplift Friday, 10 Jan 2014 at 2:14pm

You still using the gloves Bigboy/camster?

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stunet Friday, 10 Jan 2014 at 2:19pm

What advice would you give, Uplift? Fifty foot waves just aren't cutting it anymore, I need something bigger. How am I gonna stroke my 11 foot gun into the Unridden Realm?

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uplift Friday, 10 Jan 2014 at 2:28pm

Are you referring to the gloves, which he used for years.

Some guys insult women, making sure they are well out of range when they do, that makes feel a bit bigger and harder.

Or, a snort seems to do the trick for em.

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stunet Friday, 10 Jan 2014 at 2:35pm

This big wave riding lark sounds like a piece of piss - call a distant woman a ho then grunt like a pig.

.....lookout Jamie!

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uplift Friday, 10 Jan 2014 at 2:39pm

Sounds like you have it down.

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stunet Friday, 10 Jan 2014 at 2:46pm

Oink!

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uplift Friday, 10 Jan 2014 at 2:48pm

Back to the question, are you saying bigboy/camel didn't wear webs for years? Or are you him? Or don't you know?

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uplift Friday, 10 Jan 2014 at 3:08pm

I'll take the sound of those chirping crickets, as you haven't got a clue.

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velocityjohnno Friday, 10 Jan 2014 at 3:18pm

Hey Caml 13ft+ sounds like the place to start. A most incredible time to be alive, if those are the goals. Paddling in, Jetski support, flotation vests, modern technology...

Just dug up an article from "Longboard Magazine" Apr/May 1996 in which Hobie Alter's gun collection - 1950's and 1960's longboard guns are profiled. I will rattle off some dimensions:
10'7 x 22.5
10'9 x 22
10'6 x 20.25
10'1 x 20.75
11'3 x 21
15'5 x 22.75
10'7 x 22.25
9'8 x 22.5
11'9 x 21.75
8'6 x 21.5
11'4 x 21
12'2 x 22.5
Hope that helps, that's what they used on the North Shore half a century back.
Gotta say I much prefer a bigger board in bigger surf when testing my (relatively low) limits.

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stunet Friday, 10 Jan 2014 at 3:52pm

15'5 x 22.75?

Reminds me of an old TSJ cover image: Mickey Munoz finish sanding a board for Flippy Hoffman. Can't remember exactly how big it was but think it was 12ft+.
tsj_20-4_marquee-gd_0.png

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caml Friday, 10 Jan 2014 at 5:26pm

part of the idea was because twiggy has never been the guy with the longest board for riding big waves, he influenced board design for mavericks with shorter guns (with hi volume) . so if hes on a twelve ft gun whats a guy like big ben wilko or anyone bigger than twig going to use when its that big? I know plenty about boards over 12ft, for example tom blake in the '30s, in Hawaii there already plenty guns about 13ft, a buddy of mine has already got a sixteen ft gun made by brewer and he also is soon to get the 24ft brewer that theyre making. so with this knowledge I thought what about Jamie Mitchell and the new era of big wave paddling in ? Jamie was using a 'light weight ' 11ft board but he said the lightness may have been partly to blame for him falling . these guys that are paddling are going to keep raising the bar for many years, younger and fitter and they will learn to paddle like Jamie and maybe use longer boards ? that's what I was thinking . to paddle waves like belharra, nazare , cortes and jaws at maximum size . its not going to matter how they bottom turn if you cant catch it . one things for sure ,they are going to keep trying to get a wave bigger than the next guy !

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reecen Friday, 10 Jan 2014 at 5:34pm

Anyone got a pair of those paddle gloves? I would be keen to hear what the time difference is doing a lap of the pool with them on and with them off.
caml, is the 24ft brewer being built for paddling into waves?

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udo Friday, 10 Jan 2014 at 8:41pm

haven't seen a lot of tow footage but anyone think the tow boards being ridden are to short for that size swell ? lot of waves not being made not having enough speed to get around sections or being outrun ?

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groundswell Saturday, 11 Jan 2014 at 12:10am

I dont think this ones been posted, a long intro best ones start around 1:10.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z5BYcfIORyY&feature=player_embedded

Pretty nice smaller barrel at 2:12 and a few bigger ones earlier..The one that guy pulls back on is damn heavy

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velocityjohnno Saturday, 11 Jan 2014 at 10:42am

Might be the same board Stu. It was glassed red and called the 'Flying Goose'; quoting from the article:
"This board has been places you don't even want to think about. 15'5"?! Shaped by "The Fly" Van Swae and Mickey "Mongoose" Munoz for Flippy Hoffman, who happily put it to work at outside Avalanche, etc. "

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stunet Saturday, 11 Jan 2014 at 2:18pm

Maybe so Johnno, all my mags are in the office so I wont be able to check till Monday. Damn, that's a big board though. I's gotta be hard work wrestling the thing about or trying to stick a late drop. I reckon Reecen's idea has some merit: using webbed gloves or other tools that aide the rider.

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blindboy Saturday, 11 Jan 2014 at 3:33pm

The ancient Hawaiians certainly used boards in the 20ft range......Olo boards.

http://olasul.com/1416969-86

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mick-free Saturday, 11 Jan 2014 at 10:43pm

Kelly as usual is going the opposite, though he's not chasing 60 footers. Interesting tail though.

http://instagram.com/p/jBgURuzbKN/#

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stunet Sunday, 12 Jan 2014 at 8:59am

Good find Mick...

Wondering why we didn't see any footy of Mundaka on the big day 6th January? Well, here's why. Too big:

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stunet Sunday, 12 Jan 2014 at 9:01am

And here's some footy from the next day, 7th January. Still looking a bit raw and 'off the bank'. Some suprisingly bad surfing for crew who are on the sets:

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mikehunt207 Monday, 13 Jan 2014 at 11:36am

The Awooo boards made by Mickey Munoz and the late Jeff johnston made in the yard at Jeff,s Pipeline beach house. They were 12 and 14ft ers, I think 3 were made( Mickey, Jeff and Flippy?) designed for surfing Avalanche (outside Haleiwa) . One is still (or was) hanging on the deck at the Johnston house . The $3 reward for return if lost at sea written down the stringer not a bad idea considering .

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mick-free Monday, 13 Jan 2014 at 12:01pm

MIkehunt207 do you know the best swell direction for Avalanches - the reef seems to face more N to NE - but seems to be a swell magnet. There must be a reason why they made those boards specifically for that wave.

There is a great write up by Surfline of the XXXL Swell and phenonemal upper atmosphere winds @

http://www.surfline.com/surf-news/anatomy-of-a-swell-europe-jan-6-7_105639/

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mikehunt207 Tuesday, 14 Jan 2014 at 11:50am

Avalanche cops the brunt of north swells, it will be couple feet bigger than Laniakeia on same day. It almost breaks on the outgoing water movement from the rip that comes out from the number of breaks (puena , haleiwa, walls and avalanche) reefs feeding into the bay at Haleiwa so lots of paddling out and even more trying to get back in due to rip particularly on outgoing tide. A lot stories of guys rescued hanging onto the outer harbour buoys after losing boards and being sucked out to sea. The bigger it gets the further out the lineup gets. In the late 80,s there was some photos in a surfing magazine from "The Avalanche Experiment" when a bunch of guys took a surfing canoe out there and got destroyed, worth a look if you can find them anywhere.

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caml Tuesday, 14 Jan 2014 at 12:58pm

the idea of the PRO big wave surfers using extra long boards is to just catch the wave and get their photo taken , it doesn't matter if they cannot bottom turn and then fall off . Jamie fell on his wave but the photo captured the attempt and the rest is history ! same like how they are using the inflatable vests and also not using legrope at say belharra or cortes where the board can be retrieved hopefully unharmed. its all about the photo and raising the bar . and the paddle gloves, well I used them for a while but they are very cheaply made and can fall off easily . not to mention they don't look so cool (neither do helmets) maybe that's why the pros aren't using them . years ago it would have been uncool to have jetski assistance, and inflatable vests but now its the norm, so maybe soon they will wear the duck gloves to paddle faster. lots of things are adding to the equipment of big wave surfers so they can catch a bigger wave, that's why tow in became popular. but now its not so cool? people keep trying to get one up in big wave surfing it will continue especially at the moment its a popular profession.

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blindboy Tuesday, 14 Jan 2014 at 1:42pm

The physics of paddle gloves could be interesting. The change in momentum achieved by each stroke is dependent only on the force exerted and the time it is exerted for. It might seem logical that gloves would help but they would have to increase the maximum force the hand can exert on the water without shortening the stroke or slowing the stroke rate. My guess is that to get any benefit it would be necessary to train with them. Putting them on untrained could actually be counter-productive. But it would be best tested by direct experiment. Data anyone?

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uplift Tuesday, 14 Jan 2014 at 2:18pm

I've still got a brand new pair of the exact gloves big boy was using. Wanna test them blindboy?

I never used them, but it was obvious he caught waves much better. When we, or mainly you, rambled about them, you used to complain when you had to surf without them bigl, because you had no purchase on the water, way less paddling power. We used to joke that you couldn't make a late takeoff if your life depended on it... (the death of the 'Rawson'). Not me though, Toddy mainly, as I wouldn't ramble on like that... promise stuup'.

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mick-free Tuesday, 14 Jan 2014 at 2:32pm

Thanks MIkeHunt207 for the info. Crazy amount of water moving out there. Must have been good when that North Swell hit late November, which highlights a good reason to have skis out there.

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blindboy Tuesday, 14 Jan 2014 at 3:20pm

Tricky little test to do accurately uplift, lots of variables, but a simple "with" "without" over 20m would be a good starting point. But what am I thinking that would be science....save the time and energy just ask old Bob what he thinks.

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uplift Tuesday, 14 Jan 2014 at 3:28pm

Ol' Big Boy? From what I saw it was positive, along with the flotation. I promise I won't call you big boy anymore if you tell us.

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udo Tuesday, 14 Jan 2014 at 3:35pm

physiotherapists are horrified when surfers use web gloves.

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uplift Tuesday, 14 Jan 2014 at 3:52pm

Some are horrified when people squat, or deadlift. 'Don't you dare squat!!!!' Then people have to get out of chairs, cars or up out of bed etc . That's all right we'll just put a whole body splint on you. Now try it. Or kids lift weights. Piggy back fights, jumping on each other, wheel barrow races, and school bags full of books and laptops are cool though, as long as they aren't shaped like a weight and strictly monitored using them. That shape, specifically designed for balanced lifting and gripping and the very name will severely damage the kids. Unlike their 49 kilo (there's that magic weight again) mate lobbing on them.

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caml Tuesday, 14 Jan 2014 at 5:14pm

uplift you could be right and paddle gloves are the next big thing for catching big waves , get shane dorian wearing them and see what he can do ? ! but surely if they were that good plenty good surfers would use em . just like all the boogyboarders wear fins on their feet .

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caml Tuesday, 14 Jan 2014 at 5:27pm

reecen , to answer your question about the 24ft board , yes its for paddle in waves not tow in . the guy who has these boards is low profile and not the best surfer ever so you aren't likely to see him at cortes paddling a 100ft wave . hes been using the 16ft around Oahu but it snapped so its being fixed. think the 24ft isn't ready to use yet? will find out and report.

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Craig Tuesday, 14 Jan 2014 at 5:37pm

Caml, doing a bit of digging on loss of swell energy and size due to bottom friction, and unfortunately there's no easy answer besides delving into some ugly and brain hurting math. Will keep trying to find even maybe a simple relationship or scaled down equation.

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reecen Tuesday, 14 Jan 2014 at 6:49pm

Cheers caml, find it hard to work out how that is going to be usefull unless he is trying to catch some big open ocean rollers, like down winding on a paddle board.
You would reckon he would spend a fair bit of time sticking it back together using it in big surf.
I wonder if Dorian had fish fingers if he would have got close to catching that wave that Jamie Mitchell got onto.
That must have burned like a hot iron in the belly sitting their trying not to be disappointed that it wasn't him on that beast.

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udo Tuesday, 14 Jan 2014 at 7:13pm

surely dorian would have tried those gloves ..do the mavericks chargers use them ?
jughead you ever used them ? what do you think do you get that much extra paddle power.

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uplift Tuesday, 14 Jan 2014 at 7:14pm

But what did you think caml, you used to swear by them. Do you reckon they help you catch waves, or not. If you could get a pair exactly what you wanted would you wear them? I hope you're not in the scrub, its stinking hot.

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udo Tuesday, 14 Jan 2014 at 7:29pm

with the finger webs youre gaining approx. another 3rd of your palm size

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uplift Tuesday, 14 Jan 2014 at 8:14pm

'Bob's', banned web glove use in competitive swimming and in triathalons. Please don't tell us that without any peer reviewed studies that's useless, because they might be banned for making anyone using them swim slower.

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caml Wednesday, 15 Jan 2014 at 5:34pm

Craig for example how much swell is lost at m p compared to western x ?surely you guys could make an estimate? Im estimating more than a metre

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southey Thursday, 16 Jan 2014 at 4:30am

Caml ...

Saying too much in here will only get me shouted down ...

Its exponential , but more importantly when it gets over 4 ft in eastern places thats when the difference really starts to ramp up . And say any proper groundswell above 15 secs will see the most influence .
From rough memory the strait averages about 50/80M - to perhaps 200M at the shelf in depth , and there is some bathymetry focussing effects , tidal influence . And not so noted varied swell direction due to all the above . And from what has been previously discussed , bathymetrics are " said " to start to be an influence at roughly the wavelength of the swell ( on rough calcs a 20 second interval may travel at 50 Km/s an hour or 13.8 M/sec .... so fealling the bottom at 277M deep ???? Craig / Ben ????
...... The most interesting fact is the change in consistency , with far more consistant ( less variation and " sneak sets " ) at the further east locations . Also i dare say the period actually diminishes also as the size goes up ., due to the bottom friction ( almost a reverse of effects of the distance a swell has travelled to have an influence over swell period ??? )
None of this has actually " been studied " . ( that i know of anyway ) ....
again perhaps those who do have figures or rough ideas could share " elsewhere " ...

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mick-free Wednesday, 15 Jan 2014 at 11:59am

Some interesting notes if you are planning a trip to Nazarre. Seems you need to hire a local lifeguard and have 2 skis in the water if you want to tow.

http://www.theinertia.com/surf/the-nazare-big-wave-iue/

http://www.theinertia.com/surf/tow-surfing-at-nazare-banned-by-police-be...

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caml Wednesday, 15 Jan 2014 at 5:33pm

Southey thanks for that confirmation , and yes I shouldn't be naming places ,that question I posted was far too late at night to be thinking clearly . the Cottesloe bouy of perth w.a. and the rottnest bouy show during a big period swell much lower period at cott than rottnest .about 18sec rott, read 14-15 at cott if I remember correct. its clear we know that there is wave attenuation due to bottom friction but nobody is going to have a go at making some actual estimates in numbers . I have an idea how much it is but I want to see what others suggest so I may get an even better idea.

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Craig Wednesday, 15 Jan 2014 at 5:51pm

We have certain rules and built up knowledge on the size relationships across certain regions and spots around Australia, but to go deeper you really need to look at the maths of it all.

Southey, you're close.

A 20s swell will travel at 55km/h and start feeling the ocean depth at an amazing 312m. This is calculated by squaring the period and multiplying it by 0.78 to get the depth in metres.

And those readings off WA are due to the different way in which the Department of Transport in WA analyse and transform the data.

A swell doesn't lose noticeable period the further it travels from its source (ie come in at 18s around Margs and then 3-4s lower at Rotto), quite the opposite actually until it reaches its theoretical maximum depending on the core winds speeds of the storm. It's the sensitivity of the buoy and also as touched on above, the way the raw data is transformed.

What we can look at is that a longer period swell will start feeling the ocean bottom earlier and fall under the influence of local canyons or sea mounts, focussing or steering away to certain regions due to this interaction.

Each swell period and also direction will act differently, and it's these magic numbers that forecasters world wide would love to know. It would take lots of high resolution modelling to analyse such situations, something we at Swellnet are quite interested in.

Swell modelling and wave forecasting is still a relatively new science and there's still much to be learnt.

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southey Thursday, 16 Jan 2014 at 4:42am

Craig wrote: We have certain rules and built up knowledge on the size relationships across certain regions and spots around Australia, but to go deeper you really need to look at the maths of it all.

Southey, you're close.

A 20s swell will travel at 55km/h and start feeling the ocean depth at an amazing 312m. This is calculated by squaring the period and multiplying it by 0.78 to get the depth in metres.

And those readings off WA are due to the different way in which the Department of Transport in WA analyse and transform the data.

A swell doesn't lose noticeable period the further it travels from its source (ie come in at 18s around Margs and then 3-4s lower at Rotto), quite the opposite actually until it reaches its theoretical maximum depending on the core winds speeds of the storm. It's the sensitivity of the buoy and also as touched on above, the way the raw data is transformed.

What we can look at is that a longer period swell will start feeling the ocean bottom earlier and fall under the influence of local canyons or sea mounts, focussing or steering away to certain regions due to this interaction.

Each swell period and also direction will act differently, and it's these magic numbers that forecasters world wide would love to know. It would take lots of high resolution modelling to analyse such situations, something we at Swellnet are quite interested in.

Swell modelling and wave forecasting is still a relatively new science and there's still much to be learnt.

I actually searched and found what you last said about Swell bathymetry last time after i posted this .
Last time you actually said it was half the Swell wavelength , although i believe it is probably closer to the full wavelength personally . ( Again its new science [ or non existant ] , so we can both quite literally make personal assertions )

Craig , Whats with the 0.78 muliplier is that what you are ascerting as the actual depth or ratio of the wavelength is .... ??? to sea bed depth being felt ??
The square of the period is interesting ...

I obviously converted ( estimated swell period speed -/+ about 50 km/h ) to Metres per second than multiplied by the period ....
Of which at 55km/h i have a depth of 305 M ....

Caml , your burning the midnight oil there . ( or are u currently overseas ? )
I don't use Vic as my only point of reference , as i've mentioned before i lived in WA for awhile .
And what your suggesting was pretty much my thoughts on there . But i did also take note there was a deal of swell refraction partly by shallow gnd to the Nth of Rotto ,and more likely the canyon and to a lesser extent the Leeuwin running down across/ against it .
Did you guys know that the Leeuwin actually spirals around Rotto , it gets dragged in by the western tip and pulled around the southern side before returning back out through the Nth Side .
( Well thats what all the Marine guys i spoke with monitored in Water temp differentials at various water column depths ) Personally i thought the shallower NE side actually suffered from shallower autumn overnight cooling effect .
But back to the subject , I feel that its not just Bathymetry but opposing currents and swell refraction that reduce the Swell periods ( which as Craig and myself pointed out , is opposite to Open ocean observations ) ... but Craig the VIC obs quantify what Caml and Myself are asserting ..

Interestingly it was WA and the Shallowish ( >-500 M ) Shelf west of Margarets , that had me thinking more about this . Especially in more SSW- S swells .....
In Direct West or WSW swells the differences between all the WA swell readings are far less pronounced . It was with this observation that i often scored atleast one wave on Rottnest to others amazement and to others enjoyment Perth and more so that Artificial Reef and the Punters who hit that up , frothing out ...

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caml Thursday, 16 Jan 2014 at 12:44am

Craig. Please re read my comment again re rottnest & cott. Bouys . I didnt say margs. .southey said it and i backed him up that the period decreases due to bottom friction. Isnt that true? Those w.a. Bouys are fine im sure wat u say about them is incorrect. Sure theyre different to the other states Bouys but all the w.a Bouys same style

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Craig Thursday, 16 Jan 2014 at 6:57am

Ah sorry, misread that one. And yes the period does reduce slightly due to the waves slowing down, but I don't think it's a huge and noticeable difference as posted in my previous post. Will have a closer look though.

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Craig Thursday, 16 Jan 2014 at 12:20pm

Further on this, the period doesn't actually change when swells enter shallower water.

The waves slow down and the wave length shortens, preserving the period.

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caml Wednesday, 22 Jan 2014 at 5:17pm

craig this is interesting stuff, a 20 sec period can be moving slow ? slower than a deep water 20 sec period ? I actually thought all 20 sec periods moved the same speed no matter where they are. weird but true hey? and Southey I just read what you said about rottnest and the Leeuwin current . I hadn't noticed your post until now re reading it. well my friend was doing his study at u.w.a. university and he was doing marine biology ,and we talked a lot of stuff, I told him about some of my observations in w.a. like the Leeuwin current having an effect on swell direction . also we discussed why the rottnest swell bouy reads lower than we would expect . so he put these questions to his professor/teacher at the uni. subsequently they did a full study and thesis or something I don't know the name , but any way I have this stuff, a bunch of papers and I believe what it concluded . the Leeuwin current can increase swell size the more south angled the swell direction. westerly swells against the current create eddies and can make the swell direction seem more west in direction if the current is strong . rotto bouy reads lower because the continental shelf to the sou west direction is much larger than the jurien or naturaliste. ie jurien 40 km, rottnest 140 km . nat, I forget ,about 40 km . so with this stuff proven by these scientists I have more of an idea than my earlier suspicions. you said that currents in the bass straight have an effect and im sure your correct . how big is the shelf beyond the m.p.? im still trying to work out how much wave attenuation due to bottom friction is going to affect waves in the' bite'

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Craig Wednesday, 22 Jan 2014 at 5:33pm

Yeah, a 20s swell in deep water will travel faster than when it hits the shelf and starts to slow down.

You wouldn't have a link to those papers/studies would you?

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southey Wednesday, 22 Jan 2014 at 11:22pm

Craig . i hate this method of having to go back through the thread if quoting or replying . Was far better when you could quote and it went to the end of the thread . ( sure if people read through the entire comments later its easier to read , but whilst its happening too much gets lost ..... )
perhaps quotes and reply's could be set up to go to the end of the thread as in time of post order , then after say a week or two or whenever have them automaticly adjust ... ) its hard when i spend time having to see where something is at , especially when its complex ....
anyway .....
caml , please be reminded that I'm younger than you ( not by much ) and are not formally qualified like Ben & Craig . so everything i say is from observation , overhearing others , or reading ( but not so much science papers ) maybe one or two but more to do with climate studies not Oceanography . anyway i have a strong recollective mind , so shit i'm interested in sticks in my head when i hear it , read it ....
To confirm yours , mine and your mates theories . check the buoys in WA next time there is solid period west swell or close to it . and you'll see that Naturalist but mores so Margies or in the middle of that coast , can actually be smaller than Rotto and or Jurien , due to that ridge of continental shelf direct west of the SW tip. But also the Leeuwin and the rotto trench actually focus swell in , and the end of the trench is only 10-15kms west . again these are only my thoughts ...
as for the bight , well i believe it would only be shear distance , perhaps as much as 500kms depending on swell direction that would impede swell strength in large , long period swells . Jeff is probably as good as any person to ask about there , due to his years of experience and also the fact that he's also spent time around near KI and a little beyond where he would of known the swell size differences first hand .

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Craig Thursday, 23 Jan 2014 at 7:05am

Yeah does get a little tricky, I agree.

We'll hopefully have a "jump to newest post" button to help out soon.

RE the Bight, depening on direction it could be a solid 500km of shelf from the W/SW or only 2-300km if from the SSW.

As Southey said, Jeff would be the best on this one, would be great to have a better buoy network out there though!

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caml Thursday, 16 Jan 2014 at 1:25am

Cott beach has very shallow offshore bathymetry , ( for those that dont know)

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southey Thursday, 16 Jan 2014 at 4:22am

A bit warm there caml ?

I'm Working through the night here to escape the heat . ;-)

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caml Thursday, 16 Jan 2014 at 6:50am

Yes southey ! Can hot weather affect moods ? Full moon too...

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Craig Thursday, 16 Jan 2014 at 6:54am

Southey, it is half the wavelength of the swell period that the swell starts feeling the bottom. A 20s swell has a wavelength of 624m or so. It's gravity * period ^2 / (2 * pi)

 

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southey Thursday, 16 Jan 2014 at 8:24am

Craig ,

You have me perplexed .... ( Most probably because I'm looking at it from another angle ??? )

A 20 second Interval Swell by definition ( travelling at 55km/h ).......will have wavelength of ....

55,000 M travelled per hour ( divide by 3600 to get into seconds ) = 15.28 M per second .
which if you are correctly counting the entire wavelength will be 20 ( Secs ) x 15.28M = 305.6 M wavelength ......... are you sure we are talking about the same thing .? or perhaps your open ocean swell actually travels at 110 km/h ?????? Surely not ????

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Craig Thursday, 16 Jan 2014 at 9:51am

Read explanation below:

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Craig Thursday, 16 Jan 2014 at 12:06pm

Southey, got a little mixed up sorry.

So the individual wave speed of a 20s swell is 110km/h but waves travel in groups, and the group velocity is half of this, so 55km/h.

The wavelength is as I explained above, 1.56 x period^2 which is 624m. And the swell starts to feel the bottom at half of this, 312m.

So a 20s swell will travel in deep water at 55km/h and start feeling the bottom and slowling down slightly once it reaches a depth shallower than 312m.

A 10s swell travels at 28km/h and starts feeling the bottom at 78m.

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southey Thursday, 16 Jan 2014 at 4:51pm

Craig wrote:

Southey, got a little mixed up sorry.

So the individual wave speed of a 20s swell is 110km/h but waves travel in groups, and the group velocity is half of this, so 55km/h.

The wavelength is as I explained above, 1.56 x period^2 which is 624m. And the swell starts to feel the bottom at half of this, 312m.

So a 20s swell will travel in deep water at 55km/h and start feeling the bottom and slowling down slightly once it reaches a depth shallower than 312m.

A 10s swell travels at 28km/h and starts feeling the bottom at 78m.

Hmmmm ,
I thought i was the only one in here with a License to completely Bamboozle everyone ?????

The only way that i could invisage a singular wave within a train of swell traveling twice the speed of the others was if there was a outlier than ran from the rear of that swell train , through the rest of them then return its energy back through a counter return path below them ..... Is this what you are trying to show .... Either that or there is a 4th dimension to this , and or the early start / slash nightshift has fried my small brain ....
If the first is true I'm sure there are Big wave surfers world wide lining up to try and work out this rhythym ???? Image sitting out there and Knowing when to expect that Rogue wave that hits every hour or so in the first True size Pulse of a swell . Maybe I'm staring to get it now , thats why the outliers arrive first even though in the swells inception they ran through each other ..... ??? I still reckon that depth / wavelength theory should actually be elastic , it would make more sense ... As in it would change depending on the Size ( height of the swell in unison with the Period ) ..... ?
I have a feeling , We maybe putting others to sleep here ...... ;-)

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Craig Thursday, 16 Jan 2014 at 4:59pm

Haha, no this doesn't have to do with fore-runners, that's explained here: https://www.swellnet.com/news/swellnet-dispatch/2011/04/28/why-swell-tra...

The way waves travel through the water is quite interesting. They actually are always moving from the back of the wave train to the front and then fading and going to the back again.

A great analogy is bike riders racing around a Velodrome. The rider at the front powers on until he gets tired, then drops to the back and the next rider takes pole position and so and so on.

This is how waves travel in groups through the ocean :)

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southey Friday, 17 Jan 2014 at 9:17pm

Craig wrote: Haha, no this doesn't have to do with fore-runners, that's explained here: https://www.swellnet.com/news/swellnet-dispatch/2011/04/28/why-swell-tra...

The way waves travel through the water is quite interesting. They actually are always moving from the back of the wave train to the front and then fading and going to the back again.

A great analogy is bike riders racing around a Velodrome. The rider at the front powers on until he gets tired, then drops to the back and the next rider takes pole position and so and so on.

This is how waves travel in groups through the ocean :)

Right so now Huey wears Lycra ... and is a M.A.M.I.L ..... he's lost all street cred in my eyes ....
Also he and his mates obviously stop at the many urban latte' shops and thats why the rural areas receive more grunt and the urban / semi urban surf spots down here are soft ....... yes OC i'm lookin at you ...

But seriously I've never trusted Pt NPN buoy for direction and period , but maybe i will for period ... although the surface winds there will not give exact conditions of most surf spots .
anyway if they are travelling slower but at the same period , this explains the ( stalled / stacked to the horizon ) on bigger days . But surely the size must also have to do with that . Otherwise we would have corduroy during 20 S period , 3ft swell that is often around in summer .... or are we only talking about swell periods at the peak of the swell ( consistant ) as opposed to the forerunners or decaying ultra long distance swells ... ?
Do long period small swells , actually stay as like forerunning conditions and hence there are less
" hipster hueys " in their Peloton ... ie you can't see much on the horizon as there is only a couple there ....
If the swell period theory was the only part of the " feeling the bottom " theory , then smaller swells would wrap the same which has been evident and pointed out by sunbay in the other thread you linked to , but really its the wavelength , which actually shortens as the swell slows from bottom friction . So infact the force / mass / inertia or momentum of a larger " height " swell will take further distance for bottom friction to slow it down and shorten its wavelength . So in local cases the 300- 400 k's from the shelf will almost disperse or wear down the smaller swell so it loses more energy easier than a macking swell which continues to " pile up " and march in . ?????
I hope that this is not to hard to read , as it hurt my head moving from there to the keyboard ...

the next thing is i propose that maybe the swell period goes up on a decaying swell which is wrapping into more favourable wind regimes further Nth in the strait , which inturn could make it lose far more strength to bottom friction . Which would explain a strong offshore in those necks of the woods , actually abating the swell faster ..... ? or are we still going to ignore local obs that a strong offshore either redirects or actually " knocks down " a decaying swell faster in shallow waters .... ?
anyway its been enjoyable discussing .

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caml Thursday, 16 Jan 2014 at 7:20am

Craig if that swell in the Atlantic recently was measured with a bouy im familiar with . How many metres would it be ? & per?

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Craig Thursday, 16 Jan 2014 at 10:06am

That is impossible to answer as you need the raw data first, then a program (which we don't have) to transform the data.

This is why you can't compare accurately swells that register in WA, to swells that show up in SA and Vic on the BOM buoys, and to swells that measure on the East Coast as they are all different buoys/use different transforms and display the results differently.

If we had one buoy network Australia wide run by one organisation using all the same buoys we could start to do this, but in the meantime you can only really compare swells that are showing up on a similar buoy network.

Unfortunately there seems to be no historical data for the Atlntic buoys managed by NOAA: http://www.ndbc.noaa.gov/

Back in the other thread Mickfree and Ben mentioned some numbers, I'll go dig them up.

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Craig Thursday, 16 Jan 2014 at 10:41am

All I've got is this quote from Mick:

mick-free wrote: Buoys off Ireland went up 20 feet to 40 in two hours. Be interesting who makes it where for this swell. The North Shore has bad winds for the whole week so maybe some of the Big wave guys head over..

Not sure if that was Hsig or Hmax rising to 40ft, I'm guessing Hsig, which is a very large 12m+

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mick-free Thursday, 16 Jan 2014 at 2:20pm

Caml thanks for sharing your insights enjoy reading yours and Southey's comments.

There is a copy of the buoy jump on the XXL facebook. I read it as average wave height 12m (6 hours of consistent 36 - 39 foot swell). not sure but when I checked the buoy I'm sure it was 18 - 20 seconds.

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10152142680520619&set=a.40793728...

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shoredump Thursday, 16 Jan 2014 at 6:47pm

Craig wrote: The way waves travel through the water is quite interesting. They actually are always moving from the back of the wave train to the front and then fading and going to the back again.

That's really interesting, what are the physics that make that happen?

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sunshine Thursday, 16 Jan 2014 at 7:10pm

hahaaar,the Gloves. best used, but not abused. supercharge everything about your bigwave session... including the wipeouts.. :]]]

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mitchvg Thursday, 16 Jan 2014 at 11:27pm

Was someone asking about Vis on this thread? Just saw a vid, can't post it though sorry...
He was driving a Jeep onto a plane, seems like he's been too busy flying his B52 between BBL matches to surf the Nth Hem.
:-P Nah he's sick but.

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caml Friday, 17 Jan 2014 at 11:10am

thank you for the swell bouy data mickfree .I had searched for info all over the net but didn't have anything I believed. often forecasts are mixed up with realtime bouy data for measurements . im a believer in hindcasts, always checking the real data with what had been forecast so I can get a good feel for fine tuning my next forecast. that info mickfree is more believable than other stuff I saw around the sites, usually I would have googled the actual irish sea bouys like m2-m6 off Ireland but I missed the chance because I was chasing surf .my friend fergal told me he paddled mullaghmore and the period was bigger than the usual, but he doesn't take any notice of anything hyped up . all the west aust bouys seem to all be similar type, and then the tas and s.a. type bouy the same . so i can compare data from cdc and sorrel, true craig ? and all the west oz bouys can be compared to each other (within w.a.) true ? it would be my mistake what I said about the rottnest and cott bouys period reading . making assumptions without enough proof, likely because I don't often check the cott bouy for period because it is not a place im interested in . the one time I saw it it was reading less a period than rotto (and the other w.a. bouys) but a one time discrepancy isn't enough to make a definite observation . its possible the swell hadn't arrived there ,being further east or any number of reasons that I cant explain, it was just a one off occaision. but, when theres is a big period in w.a. all the bouys , jurien ,rott,nat,albany,esperance can be showing same period size, and I say that after reading them for many years . so I would think they are all calibrated the same. recently I have been using the w.a. bouys and cdc for studying swell in the bight area and as craig has said the bouys aren't the same ,but it is very easy to understand . simply the s.a. bouy is more sensitive and reads period a fraction higher and swell height a fraction higher . craig did you say that big swell period (for example 20 sec) will not reduce due to bottom friction ? at perth beaches ,Cottesloe (for example) the water is 20-40 metres deep all the way to rottnest island (20km) , then there is the continental shelf beyond that . did you say that the swell period can be just as big there as the other deep water places ? sorry ,lotsa questions , wont be surprised if they aren't answered . usually ask my friend whos a surfer/marine biologist and he supplies the answers, hopefully the swellnet forums will continue to provide good info ,thanks .

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Craig Friday, 17 Jan 2014 at 5:38pm

Yep, you're right there Camel, you can compare the WA data together and also compare the South Oz CDC data to the Tassie Sorell data.

And the CDC and Sorell buoys are much more sensitive to the longer period swells.

I'm guessing the WA buoys would be just as good, except the way the data is presented and analysed, it doesn't show up those larger periods.

And 20s swell period will lose a small amount of size and energy due to the bottom friction, but the period will remain intact when it hits the coast. This is preserved by the waves slowing down while the wave-length decreases, keeping that 20s period.

So yes a deep water 20s period swell will still hit Perth beachies with the same 20s period.

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caml Friday, 17 Jan 2014 at 6:41pm

Roger that Craig , the w.a. Bouys will show big periods but only on the directional bouy . Ive seen it show 20 sec . The stored data graph is so much lower though & the highest ever seen was 16 or 17 . Thanks for decipher my mess

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caml Friday, 17 Jan 2014 at 6:48pm

Craig can u please explain why the w.a. Bouys graph translates to such low periods ? Wats the logic there

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uplift Saturday, 18 Jan 2014 at 6:04pm

'What advice would you give, Uplift? Fifty foot waves just aren't cutting it anymore, I need something bigger. How am I gonna stroke my 11 foot gun into the Unridden Realm?'

Well stuup' seeing as you asked, and as no one has broached the subject.

The obvious is, if its the biggest wave, as in all other sports, if you go up a weight class, as Richie Vaculik quickly discovered, you need to be bigger, stronger, faster. Build muscle. Then train it at whatever endevour you choose. If the goal is to also replace the skis, where the biggest donk offers the biggest performance,

http://www.yamahawaverunners.com/fxcruisersvho

the same applies to the paddler. As the boards/chop/wind get bigger, that is a massive advantage too.

For instance, when big bo... opps, I mean camster wanted a go on my McCoy nugget at blacks, he got a rude shock. The board was custom built for me at 110kg, and I used to always talk to Geoff about how I loved squatting, deadlifting etc, so he catered to that making the board. I still remember his shock at being unable to control it at all, and he referred to it as a 'bucking bronc'. Another time, at the Hotspot, ramjet wanted a shot on my Delta Designs 'Antman' 'spaceship' model,

http://www.iap.net.au/~delta/antman.htm

that Marty again custom built for me, and which was the loosest board I've ever had. It was deluxe on the east coast, and for waves like the Hotspot on most days. Thinking it would be really loose, ramjet was helpless, and couldn't turn it. Which resulted in an afternoon of the whole pack, (not me though thermal) sledging him out of the ocean. Those (drinking) strawman, surfer legs. This has nothing to do with me claiming anything, other than when the boards were much bigger than they were used to, they were helpless.

The best surfer I've seen at blacks, Toddy Archer rode huge boards, as he himself was around 6'5", and much bigger build/weight than most surfers. In fact when he first arrived in town with quiver on the roof, many people thought he was a windsurfer. Yet, he threw them all over the shop, wherever he wanted. There have been comments on here about chop, wind, momentum etc where weight/strength/power is a definite advantage, highlighted by the advantageous, much increased weight of tow boards.

So, rather than see someone like Dorian use gloves, although that may be good, I'd love to see the bigger, stronger, faster, and so even more resiliant, and even more confident Dorian. People may site the performance that can be obtained from lightweight motors, like Formula One engines, however, that, just like in athletes in sports where huge forces are involved, ie, the biggest waves, biggest, heaviest boards, comes at a huge price, longevity and breakdown frequency. Those engines are lucky to last a couple of races. When the ab divers, who can afford anthing, need a high performance, but powerfull, fast vehicle, also super reliable and tough, day in, day out, the biggest, strongest V8 beast gets the job done. Same in the skis, as previously highlighted, Yamaha boast that their top model is the biggest engine.

The solution is fairly simple in one context, but extremely difficult in another. All that is needed is a barbell, shitloads of weight, a really strong chinning bar, dip bar and chin/dip belt. When the shitloads of weight feels easy, too light, the job will be done. 'Bob's' your uncle. Bosu's, fitballs, elastic bands, Professor Heidi Fluergendeislers 'Core' training guide should all be used only as extra weight to lift.

The big wave world may one day produce athletes that rival any from any sport, and thus attract the same recognition, and ultimately salary. Rather than has been the endless history of surfing, surfers reduced to constantly claiming that they would dominate in other sports, other athletes from other fields may be the ones to feel insecure enough to claim that they could dominate at big wave riding.

Big bo... oops camster, I noticed your total, pleading horror at the thought that Dorian and others may have used ski assistance and then entered their waves in a paddle contest. Find somewhere to sit my 'friend', as what I say next may shock you to the 'core'. There actually are some types, we'll politely call them 'sneaks', who will do anything for a buck. Contracts, signatures, friends, handshakes, their word, mean nothing to them when the chance of a fast buck arises. Some even wear it as a badge of honour, the 'evolution, survival of the fittest' thing. Sneaks alive! Watchout!

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mick-free Saturday, 18 Jan 2014 at 11:30pm

Maybe they were checking on the guys in the lineup, when that set arrived. Caml I am surprised Twiggy was under-gunned as he had all his boards ready in Punta Galea for the comp before xmas. Unless a few were broken in that comp as Skindog Collins and friends were all riding his boards as British Airways wouldn't take them on the plane.

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caml Sunday, 19 Jan 2014 at 5:39am

Twig was on a 10"0 very undergunned and has 3 new 12"0 ft chasers on order

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caml Sunday, 19 Jan 2014 at 12:31pm

hey mick I think twig took a 9'0 and 10'0 to the contest at punta g . probably because that's all he was going to need for the contest size surf . he told me via email that he was very undergunned on a 10'0 that was too small and too light . maybe he also couldn't get a bigger board on the airlines ? I don't know but he has ordered 3 twelve ft superheavy weight chasers from his three shapers from various places around the world . I guess that's so he has them located in different areas . I know he has boards ready waiting in many places where he intends to surf big waves . uplift you have a good memory and you reminded me that I did try to use your board one day in small 3ft surf I think and that's true I couldn't cope with the amount of floatation ! I bet I could now but , I actually have boards that im sure would have more litres volume and are bigger . for example 10'10 x 21 7/8 x 3 7/8 . that was back when I was about 26 yrs of age and far more unfamiliar with riding boats as I am now . now that im older slower and heavier ! big boy as you say ? another nickname I don't understand ? way back I remember u calling me the lotus and I didn't know wat that meant either . these days toddys boards wouldn't seem so big as theres at least ten boards over ten ft long being used in the area . im pretty sure the paddle gloves just look that bit too silly for any pro surfers to use , but a few years ago wearing a floatation vest would have looked stupid but it seems to be accepted and not to be heckled at now . I retracted my words about the ski assist because I didn't want to wrongly think or even suggest maybe the worlds best big wave surfers were 'cheating' . the time I witnessed it being done in Australia was when a few of us were paddling 18ft waves and two of australias best big wave surfers were fully maximising a ski ability to put a paddle surfer in the area so they could paddle a wave . then one of the rides was entered in last years Oakley big wave awards . but hey Im not the judge and who cares ,they can do what they like . sponsored surfers really have to produce the goods so there jobs can be at stake if they don't produce . I don't care ,and I like seeing pictures of surfing extreme waves.

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uplift Sunday, 19 Jan 2014 at 11:17pm

Thats funny camster, you aren't even old! You could be in your prime! Stop lifting 'goons and start lifting weights instead!

Are they cracking those huge boards off the lip, and throwing them around at booming blacks like Toddy?

The jetskis/positioning/sneaks thing has gone over your scone too. Reminding you about sponno's burning 'mates'... you shouldn't be so shocked, its a breaking point style thing.

I

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caml Sunday, 19 Jan 2014 at 11:26pm

No they dont wield like ant

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goofyfoot Monday, 20 Jan 2014 at 7:18am

Do you do any type of flexibity training such as yoga or stretching uplift as well as lifting weights? Serious question by the way.. Can you touch your toes?

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mick-free Monday, 20 Jan 2014 at 12:14pm

Here's the video of the two waves with Mitchell on the first one.

http://www.location-cote-basque.com/surf/belharra/surf-belharra-jamie-mi...

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Craig Monday, 20 Jan 2014 at 12:42pm

Jeez, that front on angle is very underwhelming, looks half the size!

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southey Monday, 20 Jan 2014 at 7:29pm

I presume you are just talking about what a bad angle it is " underwelming " as waves previous to both probably hide bottom 1/3 of Jamies wave , and the follow up maybe even half of it . Also it looks like you can just make out something going over the falls on the " Titanium one " .... heheh

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Craig Monday, 20 Jan 2014 at 9:47pm

Yeah, totally different to the paddling in your face, if you were out there angle!

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uplift Monday, 20 Jan 2014 at 12:38pm

Yeah goofyfoot, but not much as a seperate part of training. I really like everyone doing my version of the cat/cow style of thing several times daily though. And hanging off a bar, pulling knees up. I'm 60, and I have to be able to demo what I say. Touching toes... its an embarrassment to our culture that that is considered difficult. A really good regime increases flexibility. if you are serious, have a good look at this.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LU8FYEJkvSQ

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nLNzd_FcThs

Do you think you could get in these positions, with no weight? Because most people I test, which includes many top athletes can't get anywhere near it. Throw weight into the equation, no where near the weights used here, and it gets much, much worse. Most fail miserably, due to lack of flexibility.

The modern marketing buzzword is 'functional'. 'Functional training', 'functional flexibility'. Most of it is simply catering to people's, our culture's adopted laziness. What good is being able to get into 'positions', yet not be able to cope, unable to move, or support, with load. No functionality. Endurance is a funny one too. If I put 100kg on the back of a marathon runner they have zero endurance. Zero. No functionality.

Every exercise I prescribe, I design to maximise functional range of motion, under load. But naturally, that is progressive, just like load/weight. I like using several kettlebell exercises too, but only for advanced trainers, as they are too easy to bludge in otherwise. Turkish getups, done super slowly, are a great functional flexibility tool, as are explosive swings. But, I don't let anyone I train near them, until they master other things.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G-_yZlzyhfc

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UQZg_vXWmJw

Think about flexibility. Real fitness. Picture this. Our distant ancestors asleep, on the ground. A predator approaches, something like a lion. Boom suddenly there it is, in the midst of the sleeping people, looking for a meal.

Excuse me! Just wait a minute! We haven't even had time to do our warmup! sit down while we go through our routine. Assume yoga positions everyone... just relaxe, slowly...

The only reason that we are here today, is because the exact same body as we have, didn't need all that. In fact needing it would have caused extinction.

The biggest mistake is confusing learning a skill, with developing fitness. It is rife. Surfing is a skill. To get better, and better, countless hours of practise can't be matched.

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udo Monday, 20 Jan 2014 at 2:01pm

Uplift what do you think of wes bergs training ?

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uplift Monday, 20 Jan 2014 at 3:18pm

Udo, its an entirely different approach to what I would use. I guess the test would be, if measuring fitness/strength increases, use simple tests accepted by most regimes, ie max squat, max standing jump, max military press, 100m sprint time, 5 mile run time. Train for 3 months, test, 6 months test.

I prefer to seperate skill training and fitness. So at the end of my fitness/strength sessions it wouldn't be at all possible to surf. The only way you could surf after them, is if you didn't work very hard in them. Which is a waste of time if you want to build muscle.

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southey Monday, 20 Jan 2014 at 7:42pm

Uplift , that first video is classic ... is he wearing sandles / thongs ????
And old mate in the fore ground bare feet ..... I'm sure these guys would kill it at Blax ....
Please remind me this is a surfing website .....
Caml , at any point in time , could Still Bourne actually surf reasonably well , ie tight snaps in the pocket etc ect .?

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uplift Monday, 20 Jan 2014 at 8:28pm

Souffle', yeh, bare feet, and thongs, easy when your not freaking about snapping your feeble, fucked back like a tooth pick, with some serious weight over your head. Core strength. Very revealing. You'd be quickly exposed.

Its a surfing website souffle', did you actually have to do two days work straight again... so do you want me to remind you where you are again, and what day it is again.

As for my surfing in Camsters eyes, I could have some fun and post the fax camster sent me once. But I haven't got the heart to do it to either of you. How'd you go at blacks souffle', honestly can't recall seeing you there, or hearing about you.

Better still, why don't you just ask your mate 'The Kid', Carl Beadham souffle'.

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southey Monday, 20 Jan 2014 at 9:09pm

Only surfed Blax twice , once when i was young and i was intimidated . The second time it was puss . But that doesn't matter , coz i never said i was the world champion of anything , unlike ya good self ..... Besides as your mate Jeff knows Blax ain't the be all and all of that region .... and That would be Karl B , i haven't seen him since 2006 ?? or 2010 . Your face looks familiar , but honestly not something that stands out , obviously you didn't make taht much of an impression like Pete T , maybe in your Day , but that was probably pre thrusters . Anyway " Hearing " about somewhere there or anywhere is not what I'm about , at some stage i held my own with most ..... Perhaps you have some old Super 8 footage of you tearing some place to pieces , perhaps you don't .The only time I've got footage was at a crappy beachie , but i think i did alright . Perhaps we could share some ..... Your pretty handy with youtube , although with all that " Glory " , you supposedly have reigned on this earth , still yet to see anything of your Sporting accomplishments .

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uplift Monday, 20 Jan 2014 at 9:34pm

Pete T, yeh helped him in the gym years ago when his ankles were fucked and folding over like bits of cardboard. The guy Toddy, 'ant', that camster and I were talking about was supposed to have surgery on both knees, but I talked him out of it and fixed that through weight training. He then got the best pit of his life... at poxy blacks. My friend I mention here heaps, saved Pete's dad's surfing life. I have kept plenty of people surfing that would have had to stop surfing, through weight training. This is a surfing site, and I know tons of surfers with fucked backs, knees, shoulders etc who would benefit heaps about learning about training. Even slater is riddled with injuries. At the age you are, your whining about once was's, nothing like that occured to me, because of weight training. I only have a few shots people took a few years ago. We were totally anti cameras. Sounds like you're heading for a big one, what ya drinking tonite?

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caml Monday, 20 Jan 2014 at 9:39pm

wat was the color ,year,make,model of car i was driving?

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goofyfoot Monday, 20 Jan 2014 at 9:40pm

This could get interesting^^^^^

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southey Monday, 20 Jan 2014 at 9:49pm

caml , i was asking you what you thought of Uplifts surfing .... ?!

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southey Monday, 20 Jan 2014 at 11:46pm

craig , you may have missed this with the " new " format of replies regardless of time of post re entering mid thread .........

Thoughts ?!

southey commented Friday, 17 Jan 2014 at 9:17pm
Craig wrote:Haha, no this doesn't have to do with fore-runners, that's explained here: https://www.swellnet.com/news/swellnet-dispatch/2011/04/28/why-swell-tra...
The way waves travel through the water is quite interesting. They actually are always moving from the back of the wave train to the front and then fading and going to the back again.

A great analogy is bike riders racing around a Velodrome. The rider at the front powers on until he gets tired, then drops to the back and the next rider takes pole position and so and so on.

This is how waves travel in groups through the ocean :)

Right so now Huey wears Lycra ... and is a M.A.M.I.L ..... he's lost all street cred in my eyes ....
Also he and his mates obviously stop at the many urban latte' shops and thats why the rural areas receive more grunt and the urban / semi urban surf spots down here are soft ....... yes OC i'm lookin at you ...

But seriously I've never trusted Pt NPN buoy for direction and period , but maybe i will for period ... although the surface winds there will not give exact conditions of most surf spots .
anyway if they are travelling slower but at the same period , this explains the ( stalled / stacked to the horizon ) on bigger days . But surely the size must also have to do with that . Otherwise we would have corduroy during 20 S period , 3ft swell that is often around in summer .... or are we only talking about swell periods at the peak of the swell ( consistant ) as opposed to the forerunners or decaying ultra long distance swells ... ?
Do long period small swells , actually stay as like forerunning conditions and hence there are less
" hipster hueys " in their Peloton ... ie you can't see much on the horizon as there is only a couple there ....
If the swell period theory was the only part of the " feeling the bottom " theory , then smaller swells would wrap the same which has been evident and pointed out by sunbay in the other thread you linked to , but really its the wavelength , which actually shortens as the swell slows from bottom friction . So infact the force / mass / inertia or momentum of a larger " height " swell will take further distance for bottom friction to slow it down and shorten its wavelength . So in local cases the 300- 400 k's from the shelf will almost disperse or wear down the smaller swell so it loses more energy easier than a macking swell which continues to " pile up " and march in . ?????
I hope that this is not to hard to read , as it hurt my head moving from there to the keyboard ...

the next thing is i propose that maybe the swell period goes up on a decaying swell which is wrapping into more favourable wind regimes further Nth in the strait , which inturn could make it lose far more strength to bottom friction . Which would explain a strong offshore in those necks of the woods , actually abating the swell faster ..... ? or are we still going to ignore local obs that a strong offshore either redirects or actually " knocks down " a decaying swell faster in shallow waters .... ?
anyway its been enjoyable discussing .

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grog-an Tuesday, 21 Jan 2014 at 6:21am

Gather 'round y'all, have I got a great analogy for youse. Anyway it was an amasing clean swell quite a few years ago at b****s, on a Saturday too, 6ft+, a lot of onlookers, not too many out considering what a deluxe day it was.. Anyway this young guy rocks up mid-morning, hungover, he doesn't mind a drink. Checks it out, strikes up a conversation with a few of them, asks them if they've been out, none of them had. He's a bit cheeky this guy and says to one of them "forget your board again ****?" "No, I snapped it on the last swell you little smartarse" " what? The week before last?" "Yeah" " oh yeah which day?" "Ahhhh, the Thursday" " really? I was spent a few hours in the water that day, took the day off work, it was pretty good, but didn't see you out" "Oh Well, Maybe it was the Friday, who cares! You think I'm lying or sometin'? I'd be out out there today if I had a board" "yeah ****, I know you would, I've probably got a spare board in the car you could use" "nah, wrong size" "didn't tell you what size it was??" "Look you little scrawny runt, you're not even fit" "what? Never said I was" "if you think you're so fit and strong lets go and do a beep test and see if you beat me" "what are you talking about?? I just want to go for a surf, I'm not going to do a beep test" "yeah, pussy, knew you weren't up for it, I'm fitter and stronger than you, pro surfers aren't even elite athletes, they're not fit either, nfl players and black muscley guys playing in children's playgrounds are heaps fitter than pro surfers" "****, I don't give a shit about pro surfers! I don't even follow the comps! I just like going surfing, I don't give shit how fit I am! as long as I can get into a few of these bombs today that will be good enough for me, maybe you need to go and see a doc and get on some meds" "look, doctors don't know anything, just the other day one told me I couldn't eat a dozen eggs a day, what an idiot" "whatever, I'm going for a surf. See ya"
It was hilarious, this young cocky runt really got shown up, turned down the challenge of a beep test, instead to go out and get pitted. Knew he couldn't keep up and didn't want to be shown up and embarrassed. Yeah, he might have got some good pits that day, but he got on the piss the night before, went and ate a burger with the lot and a bag of chips after his surf and probably went to the pub again that night. Didn't even know he wasn't fit enough to be surfing those waves. What an idiot.
Meanwhile, **** went home and got up to 16.5 in a beep test, followed by a few sets of burpies. He sure showed the cocky little runt... Hilarious stuff

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grog-an Tuesday, 21 Jan 2014 at 6:24am

Anyway, the moral to that story is; when b****s had any size to it! MR b****e was usually around at walkers or not surfing at all. Always had a deluxe excuse though....

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caml Tuesday, 28 Jan 2014 at 12:09pm

craig I don't have a link its just a report on paper but I will ask my friend when I talk next. will see if I can get some more info about it . when are you going to start the topic about swell bouys of Australia ?

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Craig Tuesday, 28 Jan 2014 at 12:19pm

Thanks Camel, Ben and I are putting together stuff on the buoy network around Australia.

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southey Tuesday, 28 Jan 2014 at 12:36pm

Craig , when your discussing or looking at the WA stuff , perhaps if Ben knows Rabi Rivette ? ( WA body board charger who works for BOM ) he was also involved with Fluidzone . Of the people i've spoken to he is probably the most knowlegeable ( educated and observant of buoys ) of WA surfers when it comes to swell DS , Metro and Rotto .... If he doesn't know him , i can try and introduce him on FB , if he likes .

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thermalben Tuesday, 28 Jan 2014 at 12:55pm

Yeah, I know Rabi (I bought the FZ website off him many years ago). Been watching his work with the BOM for many years.. very knowledgable fella! The WA buoys are operated by the WA Department of Transport. I've met with them in person a few times over the years. 

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southey Tuesday, 28 Jan 2014 at 2:47pm

not sure of the DPI guys but Rabi' knows his stuff plus has always shown up at the right time over that way .... he was always looking for long period swells for certain bombie's .... and used to keep in touch with a few friends to get local obs to backup data . you wouldn't pick it , but he is a sadistical barrel fiend ..... seen footage of him at Massive One Palm & surrounds . Of all the waves you'd think a booger would avoid due to down the line speed required ..... not too mention heavy waves closer to home .

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mick-free Tuesday, 28 Jan 2014 at 9:42pm

Southey Massive One Palm - is it safer when its bigger like over 10 foot? Usually you hit the reef on the second roll.

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southey Tuesday, 28 Jan 2014 at 10:11pm

Never safe Mick . Even the guys that have done the most time there ( Travis & Co. ) get fucked up regularly , its a sadists wet dream . There are do's and don'ts but I'll leave that up to the guys with more experience there to elaborate as there are things about there mainly conditions that are pretty tight lipped . From what i gather the bigger , the more water washes over the reef on the first wave of the set ....!? , which is the general rule there at any size First wave you don't wanna fall .
One ex lid mate , who is now a GOOD standup ( at tube riding anyway )reckons its better bigger as your further from the dry reef . But i think he may be hinting that it loses some of its intensity as it breaks a little wider . Unlike Napalms which is downright suicidal in SOLID swell and or lower tides .

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caml Tuesday, 28 Jan 2014 at 11:09pm

Best at 6_8 maxes at 10_12Ft . Second section is the true next dimension

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caml Wednesday, 29 Jan 2014 at 3:10pm

yesterday the swell was up in w.a. so I checked the bouys and took note of the cott bouy . late in the arvo the period showed bit over 16 @nat , bit under 16 @rott,and about 15 @cott . not sure why ,maybe strong seabreezes shortened the period up coast further north ,fresher wind ? anyhow will keep observing . theres been two major swells of late in w.a. (4 m ) last few weeks that were bigger than forecast , I think captured fetch played a part . swellnet forecasters notice that ?

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Craig Wednesday, 29 Jan 2014 at 3:29pm

I'm guessing you're looking at the mean wave period Caml.

If so then yes local windswell from seabreezes would drop this value, and this is the problem with the WA buoy output. If they showed peak period then this wouldn't be affected by local windswell and would be great for tracking and comparing swells up the coast.

Yeah, yesterday's forecast for Margs was 6-8ft, but we had reports of 6-10ft NP with 12ft sets at more exposed coasts.

Is this what you saw caml? Any info regarding under/overcalls for an area greatly helps us adjust our algorithms and is more than welcome.

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caml Wednesday, 29 Jan 2014 at 5:26pm

craig , actually you would be astonished , cow bommie was just starting up about 20 ft yesterday . that swell had just enough of every facet to get the cow booming . of course normal breaks may have been much smaller . also, the w.a. bouys , I keep hoping to learn from you and the sn team? . im not looking at the mean period , that certainly is the part of the w.a. bouy data that is worthless . I look at the peak period, always , you have to look at the directional graph to see it ,and there is no hindcasting data for that either . one forecast said 3.5 metres @ 15 but yet realtime it was [email protected]+ sec. that's the second swell in weeks that was above what was predicted the other one was 9th of jan . i use metres to talk swell height because that's what aust bouys use . feet is just somebodys opinion i find ,less accurate unless your very familiar with that persons guage .

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Craig Wednesday, 29 Jan 2014 at 5:43pm

Ah I see now, never noticed the period rings there! So you match the end of that arrow with the period, and it is the peak period? Very interesting.

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caml Thursday, 30 Jan 2014 at 4:45pm

yeah craig that's funny because I was finding it difficult to discuss and that's why , now you know ! but the period guage isn't as sensitive as the other bom ones we discussed . but I have seen it at 20 sec but if it was on the bom bouy it coulda been 22+ . the updates are not very uniform either and are separate at time of update . I have studied them for yonks and correlated , hindcasted and know the character .