Submitted by overthefalls on Tue, 09/29/2020 - 09:03
New Zealand goes to the polls on October 17 to vote on cannabis legislation, which makes me wonder when, if ever, Australia will get to have a say in the matter. Supposing there was a similar referendum in Australia, how would you vote and what would be your reasons?
I would definitely vote in favour of legalising all uses of cannabis. It is high time that the current draconian laws were abolished. I think the benefits of legalisation far outweigh the risks.
I'd vote yes.
Then I'd get a little paranoid, ask the bloke next to me are you as stoned as I am man, then start laughing, dribble a bit of shit and get the munchies. Probably put off what I had to do until tomorrow and after that I'd go to bed and sleep like a baby.
Ha, ha, ha! Very funny, Zen. However, jokes like that don’t help challenge the prevailing stereotype of cannabis users. If anything, the stereotype vindicates the conservative anti-cannabis attitudes and beliefs held by many. Out of interest, what’s the cannabis situation like in Japan, Zen? Does Japanese conservatism extend to cannabis, or is that just another stereotype?
One benefit, alongside a good public health education campaign, would be to provide information to users on the level of THC in the product and hopefully stall the current epidemic of psychotic illnesses in our society caused by unregulated product eg) hydro.
H2O ....I don’t think the regulation will have much effect on mental health outcomes. Some people want to get as stoned as humanly possible and hydro is the way to do this . They will still consume the hydro which I believe has led to a profound increase in mental illness in Australia.
I don’t remember too many people losing their minds to pot back when it was predominantly Aussie bush buds , there was a few but unlike now when mental illness as a result of pot use seems to be quite prevalent .
The criminalisation of pot is one of the most ridiculous and harmful things ever . But the transformation of mull from a cottage industry which is a mainstay of income for the regions and many people on the lower end of the socioeconomic scale into another revenue stream for multinationals and big business is shithouse and will do nothing positive for Australians.
Yeah -I guess the analogy is labelling the alcohol content on a bottle doesn't stop people getting pissed or becoming an alcoholic, but over the years for all the endless talk about the "mental health crisis" no one seems to mention the elephants in the room. The grim reaper campaign was seen as a success with AIDS but cant recall seeing a similar one re the substances we now understand to fuck some peoples brains. Millions spent on trying to fix bad outcomes but little on saying "Hey , this shit might not be for yoü":
OTF sorry I didn't get back to you sooner but yes, Japanese conservatism extends very much to cannabis. The penalities for possession and consumption are excessive imo so it doesn't really make it worth it and I certainly don't see things changing soon. For the record my choofing days are long behind me but every couple of years I may luck in to a sesh or when I travel to a more liberal country (hello Canada).
For the record I think if Australia adopted a Canadian/USA style model of cannabis reform, I don't think the sky will fall in.
everybody who wants to smoke weed already is smoking weed. passing or not passing laws has no bearing on consumption and availaility. any laws only have a bearing on who gets that annual $3.8 billion that australians spend on weed.
should that annual $3.8 billion go to the black market and be untaxed? or should that annual $3.8 billion go to legal shop owners and be taxed? that's all that any vote on legalisation is about.
I agree with you, Chook. However, there’s a lot more to the issue than the economic implications that you mention. Cannabis could be treated as a health issue, rather than a legal one, which would ease the burden that current cannabis laws place on the police, the courts and the prison system. The relative minority of people who suffer from cannabis-induced mental health problems could interact with medical professionals instead of police officers, judges and prison guards, while the rest of us could happily consume the herb without being stigmatised or prosecuted. Imagine being able to grow a few plants in your backyard without worrying about narrow-minded neighbours or police helicopters at harvest time. If cannabis was legalised tomorrow, it would not change my consumption habits, but it would surely make me more relaxed about what I’ve been doing in fear for much of my life. Let’s face it; cannabis prohibition has done far more harm than good.
i spent six months in canada and was there for legalisation (what a great day that was!!!!!!!). these guys made the best edibles...https://www.ouide.ca/cannabis-cbd-thc-edibles
the edibles were my favourite -- reliable, measured doses. very smooth and sustained high. and so cheap -- 10mg was my preferred dose and that cost around $1.75.
Does smoking weed cause mental illness? I don't think so. From what I've been led to believe, people with any level of mental illness should steer clear of it just as they should steer clear of alcohol and any other mind altering substance.
They already have it in their genetic make up unfortunately and the consumption of cannabis will just exacerbate it. Obviously hydro being the equivalent of, say, 9% alc beer where outdoor weed is standard 4.6% beer will make things a lot worse as we know.
I also believe that (just like alcohol) young people up until they mature should steer clear as it doesn't mix well with a developing brain and no doubt causes damage that wouldn't occur in a fully developed brain.
Other than that, just legalise it FFS! It's 2020 and all the myths that were originally perpetuated about it's use when it was made illegal the best part of a century ago have been proven to be a crock of shit. The old argument that alcohol causes far more damage to individuals and society is true but the powers that be would never make that illegal would they?
So good to hear voices of reason!
why legitimise yet another drug into societies already plagued with addiction?
"...passing or not passing laws has no bearing on consumption and availaility."
sorry, but this is bullshit, if one is emersed in pothead culture in queensland, the availablility and consumption patterns are vastly different to those of people in south australia
the abundance, amount of stigma, and prospects of getting caught create a very different culture all the way down to even how people 'chop' their weed. not to mention the tendency to spark one up in public or not...
old school SA rules are the go, personal smoke and 3 plants in backyard equate to about a $150 on the spot fine ...no big deal...
allowing the governments grubby hands onto the cottage industry blowin talks of is all kinds of dumb
I think the 'mental illness' is more about the proliferation of stimulants (amphetamines and the like) into mainstream party culture
people get all wired up on stimulants, then smoke weed (hydro) double time like there's no tommorow, both on the way up, and on the way down, ...chicken / egg? horse / cart?
plus more people just seem to experience 'mental illness' now generally...
it's a myriad of causes and correlations
I’m glad you raised those points, sypkan. The fact is that cannabis is not physically addictive like other drugs such as alcohol, caffeine and tobacco. Sure, it has the potential to be psychologically addictive but that’s where personal responsibility becomes relevant. The loss of the so-called “cottage industry” would be no big deal; those same people growing cannabis at home to make few extra bucks would have much broader opportunities to make a legitimate living in the cannabis industry. Just look at the booming cannabis industry in Canada and some of the states in America. There are successful entrepreneurs in all facets of the industry, from seed propagators through to dispensary proprietors. As for the money that the government could make from cannabis tax revenue, that is money that could be spent on urgent infrastructure improvements, especially in health and education. That’s how it became legal in Colorado. It was a no-brainer for the punters at the polls. I can see it being just as successful here in Australia.
Totally legal in Canada. Pretty sure they haven't descended into hell. I personally havent smoked pot for 12 years. But just coz I gave away alcohol tobacco and weed doesn't mean everyone has to. I hate these reformed fucks demanding others do as they do.
“There is no debate that marijuana is both physiologically and psychologically addictive,”
Sypo and ringmaster.
"Does smoking weed cause mental illness?"
It can for some. Just like alcohol., I'm sure we all know someone that "snaps" when they drink. Do we ban alcohol because 1 in 50 turn into violent demons that bash/kill their wives or kids or strangers? And alcohol abuse rots the brain, which is a mental illness.
Decriminalising has its bad points too. Young people still have to search for a dealer. They are then exposed to other more dangerous drugs. Not all smokers in S.A have a backyard or spare room to grow the stuff. Making it legal takes away the "maaan I have got any, but here try this"
All you pro weed folk need to have a damn good look at the 1950s documentary "Reefer Madness".
"angry online, smiley in the brine"
AndyM from your link-
"“There is no debate that marijuana is both physiologically and psychologically addictive,” says Aaron Weiner, a psychologist and the director of addiction services at Linden Oaks Behavioral Health, a clinic in Illinois."
Wooooow a private owned U.S addiction clinic cites one report from 2004... The same clinic managed by Mary Lou Mastro, whose husband was jailed in 2015 for fraud.
Research, Andy.... Do better, son.
If physical addiction to cannabis amounts to withdrawal symptoms such as insomnia and irritability, then I don’t think we have too much to worry about. In over thirty years of regular use, I’ve never had a problem going without it for any period of time, whether it be days, weeks or months. Of more concern is the potential for cannabis to cause mental health conditions such as schizophrenia in people with a genetic predisposition. I imagine that legalisation would involve a degree of regulation, especially with regard to potency levels and public health warnings, in much the same manner as the government’s regulation of the alcohol and tobacco. The mental health risks associated with cannabis are no worse than the physical and mental health risks of alcohol. Cannabis should be legalised and regulated in the same manner.
yeh, I think mental illness and weed causation is pretty small, minisculely so...
but as I said, combined with modern society, modern strains, and a wider acceptance and use of party drugs, some people are all over the shop
I actually think the mental illness is more about the party drugs, some crew just go too hard, and the harder you go... the harder you can go...
at least weed and alcohol you just fall down or fall asleep, eventually...
party drugs are super dangerous for young minds. I find the legitimisation of those much more troublesome. and the much pushed pill testing at raves and parties etc. is a very misguided middle class way to deal with the problem...
speaking of weed... how bloody annoying is that grass popping at the bottom of the screen, ...constantly!
fair enough, pop up and fuck off, but constantly?
these advertising cunts have no idea, and no shame...
"Marijuana use can lead to the development of problem use, known as a marijuana use disorder, which takes the form of addiction in severe cases. Recent data suggest that 30% of those who use marijuana may have some degree of marijuana use disorder.18 People who begin using marijuana before the age of 18 are four to seven times more likely to develop a marijuana use disorder than adults."
"“Definitely, yes,” cannabis is addictive, says Ruben Baler, a health scientist at the science-policy branch of the National Institute on Drug Abuse (NIDA). “About 10% of people who use marijuana run the risk of addiction,” Baler says. “The risk goes up if you use it frequently.”
Furthermore, according to a NIDA statement, “data suggest that 30% of those who use marijuana may have some degree of ‘marijuana use disorder,’” a term recently rolled into the pot lexicon in an as yet confusing attempt to recognize a spectrum of use from relatively harmless to harmful, and to snuff out the stigma of addiction."
Fair points all round
Only issue i can see is with drug test for driving, do they have basic roadside test yet that actually determine how much THC you have in your system like they do for alcohol.
Or is it a case of you smoke a joint a day ago and the test still shows you have THC in your system
You would kind of want that sorted out before you legalised it.
Otherwise how do you work it?
Otherwise i dont really care each way, never been a big pot smoker but use to love growing a few plants, most mates were huge pot heads, but funny thing is now we are older almost all of us rarely smoke, even the guys who punched cones as soon as they woke up.
Funny one, Viclocal! Your reference to “Reefer Madness” reminds me of an enlightening book “Cannabis - A History” by Martin Booth. My takeaway from reading it is that the US government’s prohibition of cannabis did not originally stem from a desire to improve public health outcomes. The reasons were more political. Other countries where cannabis was an integral part of culture had no choice but to follow suit or suffer trade sanctions. Nearly a hundred years later, most of the world is still hamstrung by US government commissioner Harry Anslinger’s political aspirations.
Another good book is "The Emperor Wears no Clothes", I think by a guy named Jack Heror. Not sure if I got the author or title right.
Read that years ago and goes right into detail how hemp was used commercially and it's gradual steps towards criminalisation and the reasons why and how it could be used today.
Was an interesting read back in the day.
Pot man, they were the days, the road trips with the wife packing cones while you dodge roos, it made me drive like a nanna. No drug testing back then. Now the ads say we will get you long after the high has gone or about 24 hours post grill, they treat it the same as ice or cocaine, loss of license and huge fines. Some of our neighbors had to take their kids out of the local school as they reckon half the kids are on ice, now that's the real problem. Cheers.
Dupont, a large American company started about 100 years ago may have had a massive influence on the original outlawing of cannabis in that country (and therefore the rest of the Western world). Pretty sure they patented the first synthetic textiles which instantly made hemp their main competitor.
How do you kill off a competitor? Have enough influence to create legislation making it illegal.
As always for people/organisations with power.....it all gets back to money.
It wasn’t just Dupont that had a political influence; media moghul William Hearst also supported the criminalisation of cannabis for the much the same reason, except Hearst was heavily invested in cotton.
tbb nominates Agnes Water for WSR...
Noosa & Goldie Surferz just got served by younger Bro!
Not to be out done on WSR lego' Agnes Water blows our tiny minds.https://www.wannasurf.com/spot/Australia_Pacific/Australia/QLD/Central-Q...https://www.pacificlongboarder.com/files/CompClub/agyagnes.jpg
Agnes Water 400m Beachcomber'z Sweep
Crew salutes frontline suicide mission during Covid...(Super Job!)
Among the garbage is Broken Surfboards...(Must have Big Waves now?)
7 Sept 2020 sweep upends 18 bongs
7 Oct. 2020 sweep upends 67 bongs
Yes indeed our Qldurrz were stoned enough to take a photo (Yep! With thongs!)https://www.abc.net.au/cm/rimage/12743662-3x4-xlarge.jpg?v=2
Agnes Water Bongs SD = 1 bong every 6 metres (Does that Sound safe?)
Doubt if tbb could manage the full 400m Agnes Bong crawl ...maybe crawl 50m?
Surf Hang allows a million Pow Wows but strictly no Fog Banking.https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-10-08/50kg-of-rubbish-hauled-from-agnes...
Let's say Qld WSR's embrace Surfie Hippy Culture...
Then aren't Qldurrz rewarding false prophets in Goldie & Noosa Jocks
tbb pow wows WSR smoke signals from Agnes Water to Nimbin.
Fly right over the Jock's heads with old school Airwaves.
Nov 7 2020 (Live Webcast) Agnes Water Bongs Pro sweep...(In yer dreams!)
Premier forks out $3m Qld Tourism Funding for tier 1 Event.
Fark! Wouldn't that just rate the pants off a WSL non round lay day...All say Aye!
Qldurrz are taking bets from the Crew... How many should Agnes do [_], [_][_][_] ?
Shh...Don't go bursting the boss's bubble!
[ Qldurrz Orchy Form Guide ]
Note Amber said she swept up bigger hauls?
2006 tbb's Goldie Bluelight Disco sweep.
12 bongs + Bra + Bundy + 20 Breaka'z + Wot condoms? Never saw 100's nor any!
Yeah! I know, tell us! Qldurrz get all the best events! (Ain't none gonna top this!)
tbb is droolin' for Angus Beach Sweepstakes!
To think Oz Beach Debris Cards don't even have a Bong Category is Mind Blowing!
Just roll up the rubbish Beach Debris Cards & put them inside the Bongs...Sorted!
Great fishing, huge muddies TBB, very very ordinary surf.
Years and years ago I almost contemplated taking over the lease of the 'gourmet' pizza joint there.
Hard to say now if it was the right decision. What I can tell you was not buying a beachfront block of land
for $60k at the time was a bad decision.
Nice one TBB. That first pic (5/3/04) took me back in time. Surfed the point that day for 6 hrs straight. The best part was that most of the roads were flooded so out of town crew couldn't get in!
And the photo was taken by Vlad who lived across the road from his Pizza place Zen! That photo was his pride and joy up on the wall!
We just had a legalisation referendum over here this weekend. We’ll find out the result in a couple of weeks. The polls beforehand were showing nearly a dead heat. Interesting times.
results of the nz referendum on legalisation will be released on oct 30. looking very very close.
i can't believe anybody would vote to continue with how things are....cheap weed readily available in an unregulated market that sells to youngsters and funnels billions of dollars a year to organised criminals in an untaxed black market. but it seems lots of people think that's a good thing. it's a long wait till the 30th to find out.
Let’s hope it swings in favour of legalisation. It might lead Australia along the same path.
So there is a Back to the Future IV...so knew that...
Doc hotwires tbb's rusting unfathomobile..
Bursts Qld's bubble ...then orders...
Agnes Water Mystic Gourmet Pizza with Secret Herbs & Gold Top Mushies.
Comes with yer own choice of Orchy Bongs from the fridge... "cheers zenagain!"
zenagain tokes on his $60K Agnes Water Mystic Gourmet Pizza Joint.
Doc: "OMG zenagain!...during 2020 XXXX -19 you're gonna sell heaps of these!"
"All of yer Orchy bottles will be lining the Shore!"
"Who wouldn't want a Pizza Joint...it's the perfect combo!"
Interrupted as Vlad impales Fitroy 21's Big Friday on zenagain's Mystic Pizza Wall.
Select herbs'n'mushies, roll up a Good Vibes Pizza & light one end...start tokin'.
Magic Happens! Great session crew...tbb's got the munchies.
I think I've said this once before but I remember after school being heaps nervous and almost shaking buying a bottle of Orchy
I'm sure the sweet old lady behind the counter was on to us- even though she didn't show it.
ps- I wanna go for a ride in TB's unfathomobile.
If you put your pre rolled joints in your fisherman’s friend packet it makes them menthol.
Cannabis whether it's illegal or not doesn't make an ounce(hurhur) of difference to me personally. It's really not hard to get Cannabis that's over 20% THC, grown well and will send you too the moon, you can even go on clearnet sites like leafedout FFS.
Where it does make a difference is to society. Now we police and punish which has 2 big problems. People are going to do what they want and when you punish a portion of your society (like the gays with wanting to marry), you're saying, oh you work 38 hours a week as a Dr, cleaner, shelf stacker, whatever it may be that you do that enriches all our lives. Well, I don't give a shit about you, you can't smoke Cannabis or we'll lock you in a cage. Why would we want to alienate members of our society for reasons that don't hold up to logic? People are going to do what they want and if it doesn't negatively affect anyone, stand out of the fucking way.
2nd major point. I've been to Uruguay and seen how legalisation plays out in reality and also California, but it was only medically legal there. In Uruguay, it didn't seem like any more people smoked than now in Australia, no minors were smoking, just that they could smoke outside and do things like watch the sunset, play cards, drink tea and shit like that with a joint. The worst thing in Uruguay were all the cigarette butts on the ground and I thought if they all moved to cannabis, that would solve that issue as well! All the fear based arguments don't play out in reality, but I digress. The big issue is now we PAY millions as a society for a facist force to enforce laws that make no sense and make our society weaker and less inclusive. That's not even the worst. The worst is that we pay millions AND the money goes to the black market, mostly with legit criminals. Legalisation is a double economic whammy and our Police can start working on real crimes.
As for the addiction, yes you can get comfortable smoking all day. I've also personally thrown up the first day of withdrawal one time, although I stopped coffee at the same time, which wasn't smart so there's an argument for very mild physical addiction. But even taking the worst case, which is the one I've listed, the amount of benefits outweighs it by far, even moreso if you bring alcohol into the comparison. Cannabis will make you a more thoughtful, compassionate, intelligent human and is that really the worst thing in this day and age?
Legalising Ayahuasca and Mushrooms under medical direction, if necessary, would really revolutionise our society as well. Unlike Cannabis, you only need to do those substance once to change your life for the better and instantly solve whatever problem you've created for yourself in your own mind. That's not hyperbole either, try it yourself and let me know if I'm bullshitting.
Reckon I'd vote for legalisation but I'd do so with a fair degree of caution. People say you can't get addicted to mull, so I don't know what you'd categorise me as. Hopelessly devoted? I spent a good five years either going hard on it, or trying hard to get off it, and my head was rarely in a good spot with classic schizophrenic symptoms arising at times.
I fully understand the health and economic issues around legalising it, and I also understand it doesn't have quite the cachet it once did, but as the father of a kid with an addictive personality and an anxious disposition, I have reserves about his ability to cope.
All that said, it feels like an issue who's time will eventually come.
stu, ...the situation in which you couldn't control your weed smoking was a situation that occurred when weed was illegal. so, clearly weed being illegal does nothing to help with that problem.
the choice between legal and illegal weed is not a choice between an australia with no weed or an australia with weed readily avaialble.
it's choice between keeping things how they are -- weed cheaply and readily available but totally unregulated with huge profits going to organised crime.
or a regulated market, like aclohol.
It should be totally illegal and the penalties increased to multiple years imprisonment for possession.
What kind of a world would it be if people were free to burn a naturally occurring plant and inhale it into their own bodies for whatever reason they decided ?
Makes me shudder to think about.
I say we are on the right path when we allow strangers to dictate what someone is permitted to do with their own body and mind even if it has zero harm on those around them.
I completely endorse the concept of armed men breaking down doors and violently apprehending someone who chooses to quietly spend a couple of hours exploring their perspectives of the world by eating a cookie and perhaps peacefully listening to some music with friends.
Laws regarding marijuana use have been written without any mandate from our society whatsoever and if they are not obeyed then people should have their lives destroyed by being denied liberty , ostracised from the community, fined hefty sums of money and prevented from being able to travel or obtain employment.
Yes....I am taking the piss. But there is no piss take as comprehensive or as ruinous as to deem personal possession and consumption of marijuana as illegal.
"I spent a good five years either going hard on it, or trying hard to get off it, and my head was rarely in a good spot with classic schizophrenic symptoms arising at times."
You obviously recognised that it's not good for you in the long run Stu due to what you wrote in the above quote. I've got a couple of mates who no longer indulge for the same reasons.
I've always believed that smoking weed is generally fun and harmless except under the following circumstances:
-you are predisposed to mood swings/depression/schizophrenic type symptoms in your life already.
-you are still in your teen years and therefore your brain is still developing.
-you have an addictive personality and therefore hoover the stuff down pretty well all day/every day. Moderation is key like nearly everything in life.
Just my opinion after many years of observation of people that have been part of my life.
Yeah I know, Chook. I guess I just included that as a counterweight to the view some people have that it's completely harmless, or the moral relativity argument that it's not as bad as alcohol etc.
Legalising something changes, not just it's legal standing, but it's cultural status, and at the moment I understand where everything sits. That'll change if it's legalised.
Like I said, I'm for it, just not gung ho about it.
Three out of three for me, Ringmaster.
If you’d eaten chocolate / watched TV / drank Diet Pepsi / whatever with the regularity , dedication and continuity as you’d smoked bongs you’d have experienced some very ugly side effects also.
Legalisation doesn’t mean increased consumption does it ? Anyone got any studies / evidence to counteract this opinion ?
"Legalisation doesn’t mean increased consumption does it ? Anyone got any studies / evidence to counteract this opinion ?"
Don't think so, though it's the crux that conservatives use to fight legalisation: that legalisation means more availability and hence more consumption.
As Chook said, kids will always get it. I never had a problem getting it, and I never blinked at breaking the law, and I doubt much has changed in attitudes since.
EDIT: My reservation is not knowing what the public attitude will be towards mull after legalisation. Borne of the unknown I guess.
The hydro vs bush/garden varieties of cannabis debate is interesting. The form of cultivation does not change the genetics of the plant and therefore it's ability to produce the active ingredients eg THC and CBD. So really there should be no difference in the strength of the product except those arising from the advantages of growing indoors. That aside what definitely has changed is the average strength of the cannabis being grown, generally it's much stronger. This has occurred primarily through selection and breeding work in Europe, Canada and the USA. So my take on this situation is stronger cannabis has lead to an increase in the potential negative consequences of cannabis use which in turn is further increased by the frequency of cannabis use. Meaning you use strong cannabis daily you are at a higher risk of experiencing the negative consequences eg mental instability, paranoia, social isolation, relationship and work issues. Don't get me wrong I'm all for legalisation, it would be much better for everyone if it was 'treated' as a health issue. The criminalisation of cannabis has harmed a lot of people. But beware it is a drug and like a lot of drugs it's habit forming and there's nothing good about any drug habit.