The United States(!) of A

Hutchy 19…..post a pic up of you wearing your MAGA hat? From your posts you are the perfect MAGA candidate.

Nah, most people voted for Trump out of disillusionment with the US corporatocracy. Hutchy is balls deep in cheerleading for Big Business swine.

Bouncing around the town eh Hutchy with all the answers. Your a funny fella aren’t you

soggydog - thanks for the compliment but no I don't have all the answers . I am sure if you had a close look at all my posts would would probably find a mistake in a fact I have quoted as even I have had to correct myself . My opinions are often wrong ( none come to mind ha ha ) . Seems like Biden took my advice last night and bombed a few leaders of the opposition .

Blowin - you are right again . I am a cheerleader for Australian big business . Eg. Cochlear ( bionic ear ) ,
CSL ( plasma products and vaccines ) Wesfarmers ( Bunnings ) , Reece ( bathroom products ) , BHP , JB HiFi , QAN and Flight Centre , Xero ( Tech ) .

Those are some of the really big businesses . Huge cheerleader of Small business as well .

I hope they all do really well in the future ( for Australia's sake )

The US bombed IS-K, not the Taliban.

I know etarip . I am not surprised that you do not know that they are also the OPPOSITION .

I thought you were giving up on this discussion but glad you are back . You said that the US could not bomb the leadership when doing the evacuation . Is Biden wrong ?

As I’ve pointed out before, comprehension doesn’t appear to be your strong point. I’ll leave it at that.

Mate I do find it difficult to comprehend how you are unable to recognise when you are wrong . I put the word opposition in the statement thinking it MIGHT be possible that you would respond telling me I was
wrong . And you did . You should leave the discussion as your comments are not making you look
informed .

At least some are trying to clean up Biden's mess .

Comprised of American veterans and ad hoc groups of current and former US special operators, intelligence officers, aid workers and others experienced in the field, "Operation Pineapple Express" was a highly-coordinated week-long effort to run dozens of covert missions throughout Taliban-controlled Kabul.

One of member of "Task Force Pineapple," combat-wounded former Navy Seal Jason Redman, expressed deep frustration "that our own government didn't do this. We did what we should do, as Americans."

As of Thursday morning, the task force had rescued as many as 500 Afghan special operators, assets, enablers and their families - taking them to the Kabul airport overnight and placing them into the protective custody of the US military. In the 10 days leading up to Wednesday night's covert blitzkrieg, more than 130 other Afghans had been rescued.

Kabul airport bombings the US Marines were killed by US made C4 and Semtex which they left behind when they fled Bagram Air Base in the dead of night
Killed by there own explosives..

At 2:41pm yesterday you were advocating for attacks on Taliban leadership. At 7:42 this morning you conflated Taliban with IS-K. That much is clear to me.

You do comprehend that the 2020 Doha Accord “Peace deal” largely took US targeting of Taliban leadership off the table right? Trump’s deal. US airstrikes were limited to defensive actions in support of the Afghan forces.

I love the name Pineapple Express btw. Some great work there. I reckon there’s going to be lots more stories like that. And many many more that won’t be told.

Etarip . You finally starting to get it .

At 2:41pm yesterday you were advocating for attacks on Taliban leadership. At 7:42 this morning you conflated Taliban with IS-K. That much is clear to me.

I think it is a good idea to bomb ANY oppositions leadership/planners there . I will add now
Al Qaida or any other group that emerges .

The Taliban went on the offensive in March 2020 and broke the terms of the Doha Agreement . Trump responded immediately .

"The group was always a likely culprit. Kata’ib Hezbollah was behind the killing of an American contractor in Iraq last December, to which the US responded by striking members of the group. That prompted the Iran-backed militia to organize a New Year’s Eve protest at the US embassy in Baghdad in which some members got inside the compound, though no American was hurt.

As a response, a few days later President Donald Trump ordered the killing of top Iranian leader Qassem Soleimani — a move meant to signal any threats on, or murders of, Americans would be met with a harsh response."

I really hope this is clear to you as well .

"To be clear, Biden remains responsible for following through on the Trump administration’s policy. Even though reversing Trump’s arrangement would have been more costly than had a better deal been negotiated in the first place, it nonetheless remained within Biden’s power once he took office to change the pace and diplomatic terms of the withdrawal. While he would have risked the Taliban’s resuming attacks on U.S. forces by not adhering to the deal, he could have tried to shore up the Afghan government and perhaps evacuate more Afghans in advance."

Is this clear?

Nice strawman.

Trump hade a huge mistake in agreeing to the Doha terms . The boof head should have known that the Taliban would always support and protect Al Qaida . Agreeing to release the 5000 prisoners was crazy .

They should have taken them all out and put them in that nice prison that Obama kept open after promising to close . Guatemala prison .

Stawman ? I have been called that before on this site . It was from also from someone who had NFI and was unable to respond with reason .

I am sure I will get the response again and look forward to it . I interpret it as UNCLE .

;-)

A smile doesn't cut it with me etarip . Makes you look dumb . But you can respond in any way you like .

Righto champ.

Island Bay wrote:

"well it's all about the content , but it doesn't change the facts that the USA/Allies will now have to work with the Taliban against the radical extremist Terrorists....try reading the article you might learn something?"

I will, Brutus. Read it.

to us the Taliban look like radical extremists....ISIS-K think the Taliban are soft and there have already been fire fights between the Taliban and ISIS-K.....
the attacks at the airport were ISIS-K and the drone strike that killed a planner/commander would have been done with the Taliban and the US Military.

But since when were the Taliban not "radical and extreme"?

etarip wrote:

What question do you want answered? Just spell them out for me again. The only ones I can see were
1. why can’t I admit that Trump had power over the Taliban? I’ve explained that I don’t think he did. That view is shared by range of people including HR McMaster, his former NSA, which was Roker’s link I referred to. He didn’t have power over them - he gave them exactly what they wanted. Same as his ‘deals’ with North Korea and Turkey.

2. How many attacks has the US carried out on Taliban leadership in the past 14 days? That’s the inverse of the question I asked, but whatever. I’d say no attacks by the US on Taliban leadership. That would be the height of military ineptitude to do that mid evacuation.

The US was conducting air strikes against the Taliban as late as early august. These were in support of Afghan troops defending Kandahar and Lashka Gah. But their effect was acknowledged as being limited at that time. The utility of airstrikes pretty quickly evaporated once the Taliban took control of Kabul.

3. You’ve (kinda) asked why Biden didn’t tear up the Trump deal and do something different?
I think I’ve answered that too - would have involved more troops, extending the timeline further or recommitting to combat operations. Political suicide.

Sorry mate, you now think the US should have kept a presence, vis a vis South Korea? Right. We’ve opened the portal to weirdness. What fkn planet are you on? That was an option with a functioning Afghan government that had some geographic control and a functioning military.

Etarip , having fun with hutchy yet LOL ?

Trump never had any power over the Taliban. In May there was to be a negotiated meeting in Doha between the Taliban and the US Backed Afghani Govt to discuss the withdrawal of troops ...and the Taliban didn't turn up as there was nothing to discuss. They already had an agreement that the USA would withdraw , end of the war and the rebirth of the Afghani Taliban Govt.

We lost the war , the Taliban won , and now we have the old story of "what collateral damage is acceptable ?"
Yes there will be innocent civilians killed , yes there will be stories of allied collaborators and their familiy's being dealt harsh justice ...and yes China will help them as they will have a business partnership and not a " democracy based political system" which WE all think is the best for humanity.....it was never going to work in Afghanistan , 100's of billions of $'s wasted , loss of life huge ...the list goes on.

.time will tell how it all pans out....but we must concede , that the whole 20 years was a waste , except for all those who made fortunes off the misery of war...and we know who they are but at least now we can sit back and observe....

A really great film about how the USA got into Afghanistan is "Charlie Wilsons War"...true story how a budget of $1m went to a billion and how the USA helped the afghans defeat Russia....

Brutus - glad to see you coming to etarips rescue . Great to see a thoughtful post .

I think your post is 100% right . The only thing that I thing I would point out is that the Taliban did pause when Trump responded/bombed quickly . Even Biden has admitted it . His bombing of their leadership ( and anyone other leader/planner ) acted as a short term deterrent . Now Biden is doing the same but way too late .

Same that the US has no power over Russia . But by having nuclear war heads in NATO countries pointing at the cities where the leadership live means Russia will not do everything they want to .

Please Hutchy , do not respond to my posts as we agreed!

Another excellent piece from Stan Grant, drawing the distinctions between Islam, Islamism and Islamic exceptionalism

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-08-29/kabul-bomb-isis-k-biden-taliban-n...

stan truly is the man!

not scared to tell it like it is

"...Each generation of Islamist movements has been more austere, more brutal or fundamental than the last."

you won't see those ip fawners laying out such harsh realities

they won't even utter the word 'Islamists'...

"...Hamid calls this Islamic exceptionalism: it is not like the West and will not be like the West. Islam, he says, "is distinctive in how it relates to politics, Islam is different".

good to see him quoting this guy, his 'narrative' may be a little incovenient... but reality is like that...

"...Of course there are Muslim countries that are democracies — albeit of varying quality — among them Indonesia, Malaysia, Pakistan, Turkey. Many millions of Muslims live in majority Christian countries in the West, and like all other faiths and ethnicities embrace a multicultural pluralism."

just for a bit of balance... they'te not all nutty...

I had a muslim workmate writing a PHD, his whole argument was islam needs to adopt the mellow indonesia successful model of islam and democracy. I told him (politely) that was a bit naive and fanciful, the cultures are worlds apart... his brain seemed to have a little click.. but I was surprised he even went there, considering he was from south east asia

more oz uni ideological dollars well spent...

"...But Islamism is different. Islam is the faith, while Islamism is a modern political movement."

leave it alone to blow itself up in the middle east, and concentrate on stopping it's spread elsewhere...

contemporay policies and politicians have done the exact opposite, empowered the muslim brotherhood, and facillitated the spread of islamism through western sponsorship of the saudi's and their all corners penetrating wahabi pesantran petro-dollar racket

Hey Brutus, good summary. I think I said yesterday it’ll be interesting to reflect on this in 6 weeks, months then years. I genuinely hope that the moderate faction of the Taliban prevail in the upcoming internal power struggles. But I’m not optimistic. On the other issue, H19, I’ll be following your lead from here on in cobber. Got better things to do with my life tbh.

Syppo, on the history of Saudi Arabia’s export and sponsorship of Wahhabism there’s a great book by Tariq Ali called ‘clash of fundamentalisms’. It’s dated but I’ll try and track down a summary or something more recent. It’s like the Pakistan quandary you posted the other day. Erstwhile ally on paper…

Really ? It should only take you a minute to copy and paste that agreement . From memory I suggested you don't READ my posts and always ask for proof of the comments sources .

Extremely happy to be proven wrong !!!!

Also extremely happy to not respond to your posts even where you prove to have no idea of what you are talking about . It will save me a lot of time .To enable that to happen I think it fair that you not mention me in your posts . I will do the same .

The last thing I hope to say to you is that I do hope you can provide some realistic suggestions on how we can reduce resentment in the aboriginal community ( as I have asked numerous times ) . Blue Diamonds suggestions of giving a 50% vote in parliament's and 50% of our industry are not realistic( as I have also pointed out ) . Saying sorry and giving more money will not work . I would love to hear the suggestions and will be their strong advocate . I will do anything to help reduce what I believe is a national disgrace and the suffering of the aboriginal communities .

Etarip very happy to have the same agreement with you as I offered to Brutus .

Also extremely happy to not respond to your posts even where you prove to have no idea of what you are talking about . It will save me a lot of time .To enable that to happen I think it fair that you not mention me in your posts . I will do the same .

And you think things will be clearer in 6 weeks ! Not even in 6 years is my view .

san Guine wrote:

Another excellent piece from Stan Grant, drawing the distinctions between Islam, Islamism and Islamic exceptionalism
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-08-29/kabul-bomb-isis-k-biden-taliban-n...

great article as usual from Stan....there is one point though that needs clarification/discussion....Taliban as terrorists......??

The Taliban have never shown any interest in anything but Afghanistan . Sure they Helped Osama and El Qaeda , by hiding them......but has the Taliban actually tried to enforce their political / religious ideology on any other country like we do?

over a 20 year period, We tried to force democracy on them and even supplied and trained a 300,000 Afghan army , but there was no conviction , no real belief in what we tried to deliver to them.....thousands of years of Afghan culture overcame the wests quest to establish Democracy....and really when you think about what's just happened .....how did we even get sucked into the USA's revenge for the Twin Towers.....??

.

While I am waiting for your response Brutus I will respond . As I said I am very happy to be a man and offer an apology if I am mistaken .

Are the Taliban terrorists you ask . If anyone aides or abets a criminal they are committing a crime as
well .

" Sure they Helped Osama and El Qaeda , by hiding them...."

I hope that answers your question ?

Just remember, if you bomb someone long enough and hard enough, they will see the error of their ways and eventually embrace Western liberal democracy.

Proven fact.

Hey Brutus, agree. it’s a word that does need some clarification. The Taliban would have best been described as an insurgent movement but it made full use of terrorist tactics against the Afghan population, government and international institutions, in addition to guerrilla warfare attacks against the Afghan police, army and foreign forces. Terrorism is both an appeal to emotion and a description of tactics. What’s overlooked sometimes is that there’s a legal aspect to calling someone a terrorist too, as that’s deemed a criminal issue in many countries thus denying them legal rights as prisoners of war, and their cause political recognition. Hence, Gitmo. Calling it an insurgency or a civil war elevates it to “Non-International Armed Conflict” by Red Cross definitions.

https://www.icrc.org/en/doc/assets/files/other/opinion-paper-armed-confl...

I posted this the other day, there was a flurry of posts around the same time so I’ll stick it up here again.
https://www.atlanticcouncil.org/blogs/new-atlanticist/how-the-taliban-di...

It describes the Taliban campaign in military terminology of operational art, which is essentially the ‘ways’ in the ‘ends, ways and means’ discussion. And, going to your point Brutus, it articulates the Talibans unwavering objective as political victory. It discusses their intertwining of information warfare and the role of negotiations as supporting their military operations endstate. Short article and light on the jargon.

AndyM wrote:

Just remember, if you bomb someone long enough and hard enough, they will see the error of their ways and eventually embrace Western liberal democracy.

Proven fact.

https://www.audacy.com/connectingvets/news/inside-america-failed-afghan-...

Hearts and minds etarip.
Hundreds of thousands of them.

Good posts etarip .

Like so much in life it depends which side of the fence you are on .

One mans terrorist is another is another mans friend .

The Germans in WW2 would have thought the French underground were terrorists .

etarip wrote:

I posted this the other day, there was a flurry of posts around the same time so I’ll stick it up here again.
https://www.atlanticcouncil.org/blogs/new-atlanticist/how-the-taliban-di...

It describes the Taliban campaign in military terminology of operational art, which is essentially the ‘ways’ in the ‘ends, ways and means’ discussion. And, going to your point Brutus, it articulates the Talibans unwavering objective as political victory. It discusses their intertwining of information warfare and the role of negotiations as supporting their military operations endstate. Short article and light on the jargon.

excellent article ......just shows how much better organized the Taliban are , their use of social media was key to destabilizing the Afghan forces , Trump was completely sucked in and actually gave the Taliban an advantage with his exit deal.....
all in all a complete shit show from us , and a very organized Taliban. Now we can see a few other War Lords making noise about being the opposition now, so back to what it was warring factions of Afghani's.......
The USA is holding nearly $10b in currency reserves....you can bet there is some negotiations already taking place to let all Americans out , to spot for the U S military so the US drones can hit the ISIS-K.......
the sad part is in another couple of weeks no-one will care anymore about all the Afghani allies that helped the West....and a new Afghanistan will be born with the help of China!

AndyM wrote:

Just remember, if you bomb someone long enough and hard enough, they will see the error of their ways and eventually embrace Western liberal democracy.

Proven fact.

Bora Bora..........

I'm not sure how Bora Bora compares to Afghanistan and Iraq and other places that have has "democracy" and "freedom" bombed into them.

AndyM wrote:

I'm not sure how Bora Bora compares to Afghanistan and Iraq and other places that have has "democracy" and "freedom" bombed into them.

oops Tora Bora ....sorry about fossil memory slip......

Haha, that makes more sense.

AndyM wrote:

Haha, that makes more sense.

for a bit of an explanation , I am trying to get to france in Oct , so have been chatting in French to quite a few mates....Bora Bora is actually on my bucket list....and Tora Bora definitely not......poit was lotta bombs dropped on Tora Bora....didn't stop the bloody Taliban.......in fact one could argue actually galvanised them into who they are today!

"didn't stop the bloody Taliban.......in fact one could argue actually galvanised them into who they are today!"

Exactly, my whole point.
American arrogance and hubris on display again.

Open question to the Swellnet commentariat:

Name one conflict the USA has been directly involved in (boots on the ground) since Vietnam that has left the country invaded better off and the world a safer place.

If you choose to nominate one please give your reasons.

And that’s not even mentioning proxy wars and trade sanctions/embargoes.

Sorry too busy to do the necessary research but may maybe Croat-Bosniak War and Ugandan Bush War ?

sort of related to the 'proxy wars' Andy M - I'm looking forward to digging into a book I picked up the other day. 'Surprise, Kill, Vanish - the definitive history of secret CIA assassins, armies and operators'.

cannot recall exactly how, but I remember discovering it through a random search related to following up some discussions on a swellnet thread, maybe this one? Or maybe someone here recommended it?

Had a quick look and not sure that an official US force was sent to the C-B War . Thought that the UN sent a force ( including US soldiers )there but not sure . A group of foreign fighters helped the Bosnians which included Americans .

A small group of US soldiers were sent into Uganda by Obama .

Yeah we struggle to find one so the question that follows is what is it about US foreign and military policy that always gets it so wrong?