Shark situation northern NSW
Cull the journalists.
Yeah goofy...didn't really want to be right...but it's just how it was feeling in the water over the last 10 days or so. The interactions in the water anecdotally from all local crew and in my experiences were the same. Closer and more investigative. I've no idea of what ecological circumstances that had changed or were brought together...it was just a feel. I do really believe that there isn't a group of ocean users who are more connected, in touch with or more exposed to risk than surfers. It mystifies me why our regional voice here is being dismissed by the DPI and other formal bodies.
Do people regularly use that Dorsal site/app would create more anxiety when surfing.
I don't use it personally but word gets passed along the grapevine pretty quick up here at the moment anyway. The app just confirms what we already know...there's sharks in the ocean...but local chit chat on numbers, behaviour, frequency etc. is the most effective prevention we have at the moment.
"It appears that the main culprits at present for attacks in northern NSW may be white sharks measuring 2-3 m. ... an emerging consensus amongst some scientists is that white sharks at this size shift their diet from fish to larger animals and may be learning how to recognise their new food sources."
Hmmm.
From here: http://theconversation.com/shields-and-smart-buoys-new-technology-to-pro...
Also I think it should be said that the biggest sharks 5m+ are thought to keep the smaller sharks at bay , territory rules, a lot like dogs in a way, so by removing the giants may actually encourage more numbers of smaller (3m) sharks, so the calling for a shark cull of the biggest ones may actually create more of a problem
Regarding any and all shark attack theories........ i think we look at it incorrectly. With so little data to interpret (attacks being uncommon and happening in that environment) we take any one piece of it and attach that behavior to a whole species. Judging pointer behavior by the actions of one individual at one point in time is like judging human behavior from some of the silly, irresponsible, very responsible, funny, dangerous, inane things that i or any one of us does. Not that we shouldn't try to comprehend, just sayin......
Mate, could you translate that to Australian please?
lol Megz, i dunno Austrailian well enough......... it'd be no piece of piss.
what seems like fair dinkum is usually furphy.
sharks are clear as mud.
hmmm . Might be taking 'how to use 'inane' in a sentence' a bit too far but I agree with the sentiment regarding an individuals discretions.
There's a series on Youtube that should help you out Wax24.
Good on ya Waxy boy.....
Herein, I shall translate your Seppo language post into the fine Australian linguistic art........
Quote
"How about that shark attack shit mate.!....... Crikey i think it's all bullshit mate! How the fuck do we know.( it's just a big hungry fish....the bastard ) just like the rest of the other big hungry mongrels. Judging the bastards behavior by the actions of one other bastard at one point in time is like telling your mate he's a dickhead for trying to get on to your missus at the barby, while you were being very irresponsible, pissed and funny, playing with the homemade crackers which were bloody dangerous, ......
inane things that i or any one of us does. Not that we shouldn't try to comprehend, just sayin......
I left the last sentence as your original.
Crikey!
Sorry Zen....left that diamond out....
Lmao, geez, guess i have lotsa work ahead of me both in AND out of the water. *insert amazed emoji here
Anyways, i think their intellect is more evolved than we credit it with being and they are very much individuals. Which makes attacks really just a matter of wrong place, wrong time, with wrong animal. No way to prevent it or really understand it. Not that we shouldn't try, just sayin.
No worries Wax24......Just having a laugh, which Aussies love...
You made some good points mate...
Tube- i am at work and can't receive links to youtube or social media. My education will need to wait til morning when i get home, lol.
haha megzee ,,No point telling 'that mate' he's a dickhead for trying it on . The missus probably hates his guts and is just looking for an excuse to knee him in the balls anyway.
As for the homemade crackers , how else can you test the structural integrity of neighborhood letter boxes ?
Megz- i love the humor. Never take humor seriously. Bad for surfing/life.
tubeshooter wrote:No point telling 'that mate' he's a dickhead for trying it on . The missus probably hates his guts and is just looking for an excuse to knee him in the balls anyway.
As for the homemade crackers , how else can you test the structural integrity of neighborhood letter boxes ?
Classic......absolute classic.....now pissing myself laughing......it's about bloody time
wax24 wrote:Megz- i love the humor. Never take humor seriously. Bad for surfing/life.
Wax24 Aussie men love laughing more than our wives......But please don't tell anyone
Sorry to be serious again and also for cramming this thread, but my feelings about them being individuals is the single most thing that flushes that "mistaken identity" bs down the dunny, for me. Yeah, sometimes. Sometimes it seems to be. Other times, they are purposeful, know what we are, and have placed us on the menu. In that moment. Marine bios have a sense of duty to the ocean and sharks are so very important, so they go to bat for em. But we know the real.
Here ya go wax24 , if ya think oz language is difficult try kiwi. 
@Wax24
RE the individual responses of sharks making them unpredictable
Heard an analogy recently that conveys the danger. If a person were to dive into a stretch of the Lockhart River where saltwater crocodiles are swimming the chance they'd be hunted would be 100%, yet if a person were to dive into waters where Whites are swimming we don't know what their response would be. Some would be curious but harmless, some utterly indifferent, and some may even be aggressive.
This makes it very easy to draft policy around salties. To wit, don't fucking swim there.
But when it comes to sharks we don't know what causes them to change from a big docile fish to a killer, so we take chances and try to live among them. Arguably, it's their unpredictability that unnerves us the most.
Belly fullness and availability of usual prey would be the most important variables that mostly work in our favour. But sometimes not.
stunet wrote:@Wax24
RE the individual responses of sharks making them unpredictable
Heard an analogy recently that conveys the danger. If a person were to dive into a stretch of the Lockhart River where saltwater crocodiles are swimming the chance they'd be hunted would be 100%, yet if a person were to dive into waters where Whites are swimming we don't know what their response would be. Some would be curious but harmless, some utterly indifferent, and some may even be aggressive.
This makes it very easy to draft policy around salties. To wit, don't fucking swim there.
But when it comes to sharks we don't know what causes them to change from a big docile fish to a killer, so we take chances and try to live among them. Arguably, it's their unpredictability that unnerves us the most.
Hi Stu , not sure sharks turn into killers from being big docile fish?
I think that we are just starting to get the eco system back to where it was . Once upon atime there were an estimated 30,000 whales who migrate up the East Coast . in the 1950's to 60's these number were decimated by our whalers , to the point it got down to a couple of hundred whales in the late 60's to 80's.......we now see over 20,000 + whales now making the migration ...increasing by 10 % per year.
https://ceal.lab.uq.edu.au/project/abundance-east-australian-humpback-wh...
So as we are restoring the eco system , and whales numbers are rapidly increasing , so are the deaths of whales and the increase in sharks, as their food source is back .....
The bad news for surfers/ocean users, the East Coast of Australia will have more and more sharks , GWS's/Bulls /Tigers in the future.
The idea that culling GWS's will work, goes against the balance of nature , all you have to do is look at Reunion Island , where in the 60's the local fishermen decimated the population of the reef sharks for their fins for shark fin soup in Hong Kong . The result was total imbalance in their eco system, and the population of Bull and Tiger sharks went through the roof , to where you can't surf or swim anymore.
To me the Bull sharks are a helluva lot worse than GWS's..........there is a simple answer for using the ocean on the East Coast , and that's to use drones .....if you are surfing a spot known to have sharks .
when you go surfing ,and are with a couple of mates .....take it in turns of operating your drone , so you can spot any sharks in the area!
not practical.
drones can't spot sharks unless they are in shallow, clear water over sand bottom.
To be honest , I think smart drum lines are currently the best compromise solution we have.
They give us invaluable real-time data and at least a short term deterrent effect.
No by-catch and no sharks killed.
Not perfect, but better than anything else trialled so far.
Apart from nets and drumlines, which works but at a very high cost to marine wildlife.
A spot "known to have sharks" is pretty much the whole east coast now.
And I disagree about whites vs bulls - there's heaps of bulls in and around ballina and other east coast rivers/beaches compared to whites but it's the whites that are biting.
I've always wondered about the shark-becomes-predator thing Stu. You see it all the time diving, fish that ought to know that sharks might eat them just swimming about chilling right next to them and all of a sudden something changes and they decide they need to make a run for it and hide.
freeride76 wrote:not practical.
drones can't spot sharks unless they are in shallow, clear water over sand bottom.
To be honest , I think smart drum lines are currently the best compromise solution we have.
They give us invaluable real-time data and at least a short term deterrent effect.
No by-catch and no sharks killed.
Not perfect, but better than anything else trialled so far.
Apart from nets and drumlines, which works but at a very high cost to marine wildlife.
FR , not practical??
Well if you look at where people are surfing on the East Coast , seems like there are a lot of sand beaches and clear water , and now crowds are increasing......and going on present numbers , there could be a 50% increase in sharks as the eco system is brought back. Your drumlines only work at certain beaches , what about the rest of all the beaches.....???
wouldn't you feel more secure if you knew you could see if there were any sharks in the surf area....what would you propose for all those surf back beaches ??
I like the idea brutus but like FR says, it's a bit impractical for the average Joe. I mean the average battery life of a high-end drone is only 20 - 30 minutes, and high-end drones aren't cheap.
This doco is a little outdated, but it has some good scientific research in it, which as usual falls a little short on the White Pointers.
Did learn that their (white pointers) greatest field of vision and more specifically their strongest focus of vision is above them, that the largest part of their small brain is responsible for vision, and that they are colour blind, only seeing in a shade of green.
I posted something a while ago about a doco i watched a few years ago that went through a number of different historical attacks, and one of the common themes that kept coming up in all of them, was that the surfers had pissed in their wetties, and it's likely that was what separated them from the pack and got the sharks attention. We've always kinda known that as surfers but i think it's one thing that gets overlooked alot in summarising attacks and the possible reasons.
So with all this in mind, i reckon sharks eyes, stripy boards/wetsuits or camo wetties are definitely the go, but on top of that, i'd be holding that piss in as a priority to avoid detection.
btw if anyone knows that doco i'm talking about (it was in Sth Africa i think) would be great if they could post it here.
Westofthelake wrote:I like the idea brutus but like FR says, it's a bit impractical for the average Joe. I mean the average battery life of a high-end drone is only 20 - 30 minutes, and high-end drones aren't cheap.
Hi Westy , the drones are getting cheaper , battery life getting longer , so what would you do if you wanted to surf a nice backbeach with a few mates....but it's a well known area for sharks......what price would you pay.....4 mates x $500 = security?
Blue diamond...funny story about stripes that look like sea snakes.........they have found B&W striped sea snakes in the stomachs of Tiger Sharks....say this on Nat Geo's shark week , arrived in Hawaii the next week , went surfing with Eric Arakawa at Pupukea.....there were 3 surfers out who all had black and white stripes on the bottom of their bds....I started laughing , Eric asked whats so funny......I asked, what type of sharks attack here in Hawaii......he replies Tigers.....I then tell the story of the sea snakes in Tigers tummy's rather loudly so all could hear....one guy put his feet up on his board , one paddled in, the other just sat there stunned!!!
Whoops! Well I will strike that one off the list then Brutus. Another myth busted on sharks. Cheers for the heads up and saves paddling around in a pretty radical looking wettie.
Dunno brutus. My average surf is around 2-3 hours long so using current technology I'd need about 5 drones to get me through a single surf sesh. And besides if the surf is good enough to get me out there, then I wont be keen on flying a drone while my buds are getting barrelled.
My theory regarding sharks is that it's the ones you don't see that you should be worried about, and if you're really worried about sharks, then it's time to find another sport.
“ one of the common themes that kept coming up in all of them, was that the surfers had pissed in their wetties, and it's likely that was what separated them from the pack and got the sharks attention. ”
Or could it mean that most surfers piss in their wetsuit. I’ve always assumed so. Am I wrong?
To be honest, if there’s three other people out surfing my shark anxiety goes down massively. The anxiety is the major problem, the chances of actually getting attacked are pretty freakin small.
what's that old saying, "only fear , fear?"
@ Bluediamond - Who doesn't piss in their wettie? That old one doesn't feel like it holds much weight to me.
@solitude and @wally. I dunno, but since i watched that i haven't anymore, or if i do, i make sure the wetty gets a thorough washout post surf. Wasn't it Jack Robbo who had a 12 hour surf up North and held on for the entire 12hours of surfing. I read that somewhere... Surely got his reasons!
I stopped doing it.
If you look at other predators in the wild, they seem to hunt and pick off the weaker/easier option from a group. So in my head that translates to paddling in a consistent and strong sort of way, and not slow/tired paddling or flapping about appearing tired and weak. Not sure at all if this works, but it helps my brain a bit.
Jack robbo probably couldn't piss he was that dehydrated. Whatever works for you all I guess.
What a great way to fuck yourself up...Going over the falls at Jack Robbo size Gnarloo with a
full Bladder and landing on your gut ----- One split Bladder spilling Toxic liquid thru your body not a good scenario !
brutus wrote:what's that old saying, "only fear , fear?"
Maybe you're thinking of "Nothing to fear but fear itself"? Which was said by US President Franklin D Roosevelt at his inaugural address in '33.
But for sure without a doubt every surfer has to deal with their own shark demon, in their own way.
My approach is to try to 'not' think about them.
Easier said than done.
After all, it's their home.
Can't wait for my next surf, just love the feeling of freedom in the ocean! Packing the car as I type. Board - check, wettie - check, towel - check, wax - check, shark attack kit - check, drone - check, back-up drone - check, Dorsal site check - check, shark eyes - check, stripes on everything - check, shark shield - check...
"Yeah no worries boys I'll take first shift on the drone . It's absolutely cranking out there and it's probably going to go onshore in the next hour ,,so you guys get into it .".. Noen Ever
miniature hand held homing torpedos - check
I work in hospital so it is common to hafta hold that piss for a coupla hours. I have never had to pee in a session. Just do it before the wettie goes on. Not hard. (specially after ya pee, lol) I dunno if that theory holds water (or piss), but it is a simple, free, thing i can do. Why the heck not?!
What's happening up there?