McCoy Four Fins? NOT!

marc atkinson's picture
marc atkinson started the topic in Tuesday, 24 Jul 2012 at 11:02am

So I've just been in contact with Geoff McCoy and he's bummed out to discover guys are playing around with his designs by changing the fin configuration to four fins etc. In Geoff's own words, "If they worked better I would make them but they don't."

I've worked closely with Geoff for different periods of my life since 1971 and he is without doubt the most gifted and knowledgeable board designer I've personally met and/or worked with, yet he also takes the prize for the least understood by the industry he help to build in Australia.

History doesn't record Geoff McCoy in a good light; a man of vision and progressive thinking, he has instead often been portrayed in a less than glorifying light. Knowing him as I do, I have to admit often he is his own worst enemy when it comes to speaking to media and the industry and his sometimes abrupt and abrasive manner often comes back and bites him on the arse as he gets misunderstood and miss quoted etc. Yeah, we've all got our crosses to carry.

But let's get back to surfboard design.....

All you guys out there re-configuring your McCoy's with different fin set ups, do so not understanding the physics behind the design and therefore you're playing with matches and generally your pockets going to get burnt.... it's not cheap to change a board to a four fin just to find out it's not what you were expecting and hoping for. Then you gotta sell it on and the next guy also finds it's a dog and goes around telling everyone McCoy's are fucked boards etc...

Now maybe you can see why old man McCoy gets pissed off.

If you're into Geoff's boards - which is like being switched into an entirely different world of surfing, and let's face it unless you're in that world you don't get to understand the brilliant complexities of it - be careful what you think will work well with McCoy designs. Chances are it won't work as your hoping or as the media is telling you it will work. And the reason it won't is simple.... the board's not designed to work that way.

Now I know there's a whole world out there where you can do what ever you like with surfboards and get told you're improving the design, but that's not Geoff McCoy's world.

I hope I've saved a lot of you a heap of $$$ that you were about to spend ..... Now you can go take your girl out for a night on the town.

Cheers,
Marc

victor's picture
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victor commented Tuesday, 24 Jul 2012 at 11:53am

physics behind mc coys designs?? if youre into geoffs boards its like being switched into a entirely different world of surfing.........be real, any alteration to a mccoy ,addition of 3 or more fins or whatever would have to be improvement....other than mark warren or cheyne horan 20 + years ago,i can honestly say i have never seen any surfer ripping on a mc coy, if you have a link to a surfer ripping on a mc coy please post it..

helmet-not-hose's picture
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helmet-not-hose commented Tuesday, 24 Jul 2012 at 11:55am

Geoff MCcoy can be a precious little poppett. Thanks for the heads up but I think people should do whatever they like wiiith the boards they ride (and have paid for). Surprising as it may be to Geoff he doesn't know everything. You never know people might discover something new about his boards. I'll bet he takes the credit it for it then!

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philosurphizing... commented Tuesday, 24 Jul 2012 at 12:47pm

It is very difficult to come to any absolute definative conclusions about nuggets, one reason being is that we all swing our weight differently when turning, therefore as McCoy has stated his boards suit surfers who are more back footed than frontfooted, therefore if your style is more front footed and you are riding a nugget with a quad setup maybe that is more suitable for that person than a single or a thruster. Maybe aquad makes the board more reactive for a front footed surfer.

Another aspect of the nugget design that gets misinterpreted when a surfer first tries one is they stand a few inches too far forward and therefore do not find the boards true sweetspot, the wider thicker tail allows a surfer to stand closer to the tail and therefore closer to the fins, giving a totally different feel compared to the standard shortboard with narrow tail with a tapered foil profile.
The next board I plan to build will be a nugget with 5 fin boxes so I can experiment with all the fin combinations, the middle finbox will be 12'' so I can try a gullwing fin at the front of the box, and the 4 outside boxes will be full length slotted boxes and not the round fcs plugs which are not strong enough in my opinion.

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victor commented Tuesday, 24 Jul 2012 at 12:55pm

that outta do it...........a mccoy nuggett ripoff 5 finner.

top-to-bottom-bells's picture
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top-to-bottom-bells commented Tuesday, 24 Jul 2012 at 1:17pm

Mr Twin Fin doesn't like quad fins? There's some irony in this.

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top-to-bottom-bells commented Tuesday, 24 Jul 2012 at 1:20pm

"Maybe aquad makes the board more reactive for a front footed surfer." Good point Mr P.

marc atkinson's picture
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marc atkinson commented Tuesday, 24 Jul 2012 at 8:02pm

It's a matter of fin design working in collaboration with rail design. The more fins/fin area, the more a rail must be designed to offer release to the water.

McCoy rails are designed to hold water flow (especially the Zots), not release it like you will find on the four fin designs. So the point is you will stiffen the board up by the physics of both the rail holding and fins holding through the manoeuvre.

Of course you may be able to counteract that by reducing fin size, shape etc. Still, I doubt it will do it for you unless your just cruising or racing a wall. But anyway, the point is it's an expensive exercise if it doesn't work for you.

To all you guys into Geoff's boards, I hope this helps you.

Cheers
M

quadzilla's picture
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quadzilla commented Friday, 27 Jul 2012 at 1:48pm

just a few Qs Marc, considering you are commenting on Quad fins.

Firstly, how many quads have you ridden? ? ?

second, how many have you owned? ?

thirdly, what sort of waves have you ridden them in? ? ?

victor's picture
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victor commented Friday, 27 Jul 2012 at 2:01pm

just curious,what would it cost to plug a mc coy board for a quad setup....$100-$120 ???

quadzilla's picture
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quadzilla commented Friday, 27 Jul 2012 at 2:44pm

victor, 6 plugs on ebay are $15 delivered....grind the thruster fin off,leaving the front fins.laminate some fibreglass where the thruster and trailing quads will go.get a holesaw and make 6 holes.glass the plugs in.and away you go.$5 bucks worth of resin tops.then you can have a thruster or a quad...or a quad with the numbster fin that slater used in the recent victory in Fiji.
positioning the quads is a big issue though.McKee puts his closer to the stringer than anyone else.Firewires on the Sweet potato have theirs very close to the rail.Slater follows McKee's method.
Mine have the trailing edge 6" from the tail and 48mm from the rail,leading edge is 90mm from rail.my trailing fin base is 105mm and depth is 100(F4 futures)
My all round nugget goes well as a thruster, but when i first surfed it as a quad it was so much faster and looser than any of the other Mccoys ive owned(27) or friends boards that ive riddden(about a dozen).
My opinion is quading a McCoy is a definite move forward, but its up to the individual to assess if they like the sensation or not.it may not suit everyone but my quad Mccoy is the BEST board ive ever surfed on!

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bman commented Friday, 27 Jul 2012 at 7:17pm

what do you ride victor? Do you rip?

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sidthefish commented Friday, 27 Jul 2012 at 7:25pm

yep, vic rips and can ride anything.

he's just too modest to admit.

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woohcs commented Friday, 27 Jul 2012 at 7:38pm

rode a local shapers 5'8" sorta fishy/hybrib at lombok in april on a head high day, sucky reef heavily quaded...big fins...fckn rocked..same board same fins south east vic, board was a dog! never hurts to experiment

tinsothekneelo's picture
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tinsothekneelo commented Friday, 27 Jul 2012 at 8:20pm

Bloody hell guys...seems all you modern types think that all you do is bung a few plugs in the bottom of your stick, and hey presto, you can be an authority on the fact that the board sucks or not, even if you've mucked up the fins...
Ask a few old kneelo shapers how a quad works...best you know what fins you'll be sticking to it before you shape the thing...then know your stuff about where to put them.
See if you can get Parkesy or Hutchy to have a chat about fin placement (quad or tri) vs board shape/rail design, before you invest hard earned into changing an expensive slab into an experiment. Both of these boys have had plenty of years invested in both!
Surfing Fish for the last 5 years doesn't make you an expert...

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sidthefish commented Friday, 27 Jul 2012 at 9:21pm

last coupla boards ordered from ol mate MILCH in tas, one was a double flyer fishy thingo and I ordered as a quad.

it arrived as a tri. milch reckons makes no diff.

dunno if I can argue, cos it flies.

aunty zuchini has been ridin 5 fin kneelos for years.

sometimes I wonder if KS11 has a lot to do with currrent fin fad cos he's on the payroll of fin Co's ... mmmmmmmm.

conclusion: fucked if I know. still love box singles, especially as I get more old n rickety, somethin' about the glide.

kookster's picture
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kookster commented Saturday, 28 Jul 2012 at 8:46am

I have owned approximately 10 McCoys since about 2007 (Potbelly, Stumpy, All-round Nugget and Lazor Zaps), all thrusters so I can't comment about singles.

I still have one McCoy in the quiver, and will always have one, because they are like butter to ride. Silky smooth, predictable, neutral, they hold phenomenally well and no-one will get more waves than you because of the volume and ability to paddle in early from further out the back. I've taken them on overseas trips and people laugh because they say "that fat arse will never hold in these waves", and I just set about showing them that their pre-conceived notions about what will and won't work is bullshit. They are incredible at holding a rail and sticking hard BECAUSE of the fat arse and the rails.

For the last 12 months I've ridden nothing but quads from a local shaper who does mostly quads. I'm loving the different feeling and a lean back into the performance realm (although I did get the quads de-tuned for an easier transition).

So I'm probably at least partly qualified to comment and I agree McCoys would be completely over-finned as a quad, they would have way too much hold with that rail/planshape. But I haven't tried one so I can't say for sure.

Just as Marc says I know I wouldn't buy one that had been plugged unless I got it cheap, so just be aware you are knocking the resale price of the board.

Geoff's not the only person in the world who believes singles are better than thrusters too, but the masses (me included) disagree.

Geoff doesn't make a board he didn't think will "work". But he's not completely closed to everything like people think. I absolutely guarantee he has tried all different fins combos and if they worked he would use them.

I know he got sick of altering boards for people who then didn't like the outcome of what they had asked for and then he has an unhappy customer through no fault of his own.

If he changed the fin setups he'd have to change the rails, and the plan, and the foil, and the bottom shape and it all goes to shite.

He has a tried and true formula and he sticks to it. Who can't people fathom that that is a good thing? Imagine going to DHD and telling him a vee bottom would work better on something he has made to work with a double concave. He'd say "fuck off you idiot". He wouldn't make it for you because he wouldn't want his name on a board that didn't work. So why isn't Geoff entitled to do the same?

McCoys surf a certain way - I can tell you riding McCoys is something every surfer should do - I learned more in my first dozen surfs on one than I had in the previous dozen years. Until you've ridden a "neutral" board you don't really know how to control one that has performance and release built into it. IMHO

If you want a quad you MUST find someone who has done thousands of them, rides them themself, and knows exactly what fins work in what conditions with what rail/plan/foil.

Just like Geoff knows with his boards.

Massive Kook

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kookster commented Saturday, 28 Jul 2012 at 9:29am

I thought I might explain why I went away from McCoys because the reason is pertinent to this thread.

I’ve found that I’m a rounded pin man. I’m a forward stance surfer and try as I might I couldn’t retrain myself to get back on the wide McCoy tails and work them properly.

So the boards don't work as well for me as a rounded pin quad, a combo which I've found is far easier to turn for a forward stance guy like me.

But I'm pulling the McCoy out of the rack right now and taking her for a glide. I've already got a massive smile on my dial just thinking about riding it. What else is surfing about?

:-)

Massive Kook

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quadzilla commented Saturday, 28 Jul 2012 at 10:33am

Kookster,its great u like your nugget and your MORE, however the quad modified nugget is very different to both those boards.a 3 fin nugget goes extremely well imo, but with QUAD fins its like taking the handbrake off.
the statements that you and Marc have made about being"completely over finned" is the opposite to my practical experience.my quad nugget is FASTER and LOOSER, than any 1...2...3 finned Mccoy(designed or shaped)board ive ridden,this experience dates back to the days PRE mCoy...Barry Bennets and Keyos
DESIGNS to FREE your SURFING....get QUADDED

marc atkinson's picture
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marc atkinson commented Saturday, 28 Jul 2012 at 2:11pm

Hi Victor & Quad. Apologies for taking so long to reply to you.

Victor...... The last guy I know who got it professionally done, it cost him $260 odd bucks including fins. He loves the change yet his style doesn't ask a lot from the board. I have ridden his board and for me it locks up off the bottom and top when pushed hard due to the rail design being unsuitable to the quad fin setup.

Quad...... Was there at the beginning of quads with Jack Knight and Glen Winton. Please understand this is not about quads but about changing fin set ups on McCoy's to quads.... It won't suit many, I don't think, and if everyone is up for around $260 to do it, it might be worth a think about.

Marc

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kookster commented Saturday, 28 Jul 2012 at 3:43pm

Quadzilla, well there you go, as I said, I haven't tried a quad McCoy and sorry I actually missed that comment first read through the thread.

Which shape is it? Got some pics?

Massive Kook

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quadzilla commented Sunday, 29 Jul 2012 at 7:36pm

Kookster, sorry my puta wont upload photos onto these sorts of forums.i tried photo bucket and another programme and it just doesnt happen.However, my all rounder nugget was Future boxed by Chaos, cost was $100 according to the guy i bought it from.Very good job,cant fault it. 7/0x21.5x3(1/8).this board could be a one board quiver.
I'm so impressed with the performance improvement i'll be converting many of my other nuggets which include 6/4 potbelly...6/6 allrounder(big nose rocker) 6/8 allrounder .my zot is 6/8 and i'll consider converting that after i ride a friend's who had Chaos put FCS plugs in his.
I'm quite busy right now but i'm hopeful of doing the PB first when i have the spare time.It'll be the method ive outlined earlier in this thread.ANYONE with basic fibreglass skils and a holesaw and grinder can do the job themselves.MOST IMPORTANTLY, i'll be installing 3 sets of plugs so that the board can be surfed as originally designed AND as a quad.
Ive owned this 7/0 for just on 2 months now, initially i rode it as a thruster and it goes quite well,anyone who doesnt like the looseness of a quad would be extremely happy with its performance.Having an inquisitive mind i love trying different fin set ups, hence the quad arrangement.From the first bottom turn i was BLOWN away.
Now, the fins i use are very different to the standard fins.Futures 467s VECTORS are the front fins.Designed for larger surfers with different angles of attack.A very significant CANT increase over the stock standard glassed on fins.The reason i use these fins is that when i explored the Surftech nuggets i found these fins provided the maximum drive and suited my surfing.My trail fins are a F4 on my forehand side and the hatchet 425 thats standard issue with the 467s on my backhand side.So, in effect its a assymetrical fin system. ive used a similar set up in lots of quads in the past.
A frontside turn is performed on yr toes and a backside turn is on yr heels,so ive always wondered Y in this day and age, with so many interchangeable fins, that most surfers are still absolutely symmetrical.Symmetrical works but varying to suit how u want a board to feel is paramount to me.
Some people wont appreciate the differences but thats OK, horses for courses.At this stage, ive ridden waves up to head high as a thruster and Assym quad.So in 6-10ft i cant make a comment.
But, SEND em up HUEY !

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frankenzot commented Monday, 30 Jul 2012 at 1:23pm

Hey Mark,

I think I own the board that started this thread - a modified Astron Zot, with 4 fcs fusion plugs.

I've owned 4 McCoys, 2 were customs - collected through you at Manly.

I've mostly been happy with my McCoys, which is why I keep going back. I really like his single finned boards, they suit my approach to surfing.

I really wanted to try a wide tailed quad after watching Neal Purchase Jnr on his quartets. I wanted to dip my toe into the waters and see how they go, without splashing out on a new board.

Two hundred to get the board professionally modded (120 for fins and plugs, 80 for installation), and I've still got the original set-up.

Have I made it a better board?

"Better" is so subjective. The quad McCoy that you tried Mark, that your customer was so happy with - you didn't rate it at your performance level. Your take is different than the owner.

I'll always enjoy what the Zot can deliver as a single in the right conditions. But now I've got something different as well, and whilst it's still early days, I can see the possibilities and potential for my level of surfing. Interestingly, I also have a McCoy thruster in my garage and it's never piqued my interest when I've ridden it, as much this quad set-up.

It's a shame that if I really start to like this set-up and want to get a board designed as a quad from the ground-up that I can't go to Geoff.

If you or Geoff want to contact me directly, feel free. You can get my contact details from Geoff.

Phil Morgan

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moore commented Monday, 30 Jul 2012 at 11:09pm

The single most effective thing anyone can do to their McCoy is to directionally sand the bottom and rails to get rid of that gloss - no need for that extra drag

I know that Geoff is of the mind that multi finned boards are slower, using the example of pushing the same board across still water and adding fins to each respective push of the board. The quickest is no fins, getting slower with each fin. However, this does not really reflect what happens across a wave (boards rarely travel flat across the surface, even when going 'straight')and does not take into account other variables such as fin shape, surface area, cant, toe etc.

A while back I had a little McCoy single and a Richie Pavel Speed Dialer quad around the same size. The difference in natural trim speed and drive was remarkable - the Pavel being significantly faster and more responsive to rider input, whether overhead and barrelling or waist high and mushy.

It's a shame that Geoff discredits the quads. One thing I've learned as I've got older is that you can always learn some more

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moore commented Tuesday, 31 Jul 2012 at 6:45am

It's also somewhat condescending to suggest that the majority of surfers are not aware that each design aspect of a board works alongside the others as a whole.

The Jobson Twinzer set up could also work well with those wide convex bottomed round tails. Highly unlikely to get one from Geoff though!

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marc atkinson commented Tuesday, 31 Jul 2012 at 7:27am

Hi Frankenzot,

There is little doubting that when pushed the Zot converted to 4 fin will lock up 'cause the rail's designed to work like a fin on those Zots, so it will do what its designed to do, which is hold. But mate I would change that thruster over to quad if it's not setting you off as a thruster for a truer quad ride than what you will get on a Zot conversion. And yeah, I do agree it would be great to go into those areas with Geoff.

I note Quadzilla has converted a big guy nugget. Again that rail is much more suitable to a conversion.

Fact with surfboard design is most of us don't surf well enough to really test out the complexities of the surfboard design we are riding that the great shapers give us. So as it mostly does, it comes down to what feels good to our own individual read on a wave. And that's where those experienced guys in the surfboard Industry do their best to match boards, fins and shapers to the surfing public. So therefore this thread.

And also let's not forget the many positions guys place the fins RE: quads. Truth is it's a complex world this surfboard design business. My personal take is if you've found something you love, surf it.

Obviously skill and experience will be playing the greatest factor on who can go where on what. Higher skills will place greater demands on design factors. Like I mentioned a little earlier, when pushed the conversion I rode locked up. Therefore in design terms, the degree may vary, but what happened to one will happen to another, all those Zot conversions will lock up, so I say to all you McCoy owners thinking of spending your hard earned: It's not really what the boards designed for.

Cheers,
Marc

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quadzilla commented Thursday, 16 Aug 2012 at 7:46am

i know of 4 different Azots that have been modified because the owners thought they could get more performance.the first one was set up as a thruster(fcs plugs) with the box fin overhanging the end of the box, meaning the base of the fin has a cut out.his report is that its much better in small weak waves but he reverts to the single in powerful waves.the 2nd guy had future boxes installed and used 4.25 side fins with a 6 inch centrefin.he was amazed at the"completely different" sensation he got.the 3rd guy, has Cheynes stafin in the box with FCS longboard sidebites(gl/gx size).a much better board for him,was his comment.
Frankenzot is the 4th and most interesting because ive ridden FZ as a zot(standard gullfin),and my Zot is the exact same dimensions bar being 1/4inch wider.Fzot will be tested with ALL the first 3 configurations when QZ and FZ have a swap,but also with many other set ups due to the amount of FCS variety available to us.
Currently, my quad nugget has the futures hatchets as the trail (quad)fins...providing a super loose sensation but substantially less drive than with the F4trailer(asymmetrical set up).its ideal for the weakest of swells.
QUAD up and FLY!

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moore commented Thursday, 16 Aug 2012 at 8:20pm

Hey QZ, do you make any other mods at all? E.g. Sand the edges/rails to work with the new fin setups?

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quadzilla commented Friday, 17 Aug 2012 at 7:10am

gidday M,ive been thinking about your comment about wetrubbing the gloss & thats going to happen.Probably half of my mCoys have been glossed & i think that the matt finish does provide a slicker ride.Yesterday i jumped on my 6/8 thruster nugget(wetrubbed)and it is a slightly different sensation.i was thinking of 400 or 800,whats your opinion?

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moore commented Friday, 17 Aug 2012 at 5:05pm

400 will do the job.

Let us know the results

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quadzilla commented Tuesday, 21 Aug 2012 at 8:50pm
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quadzilla commented Wednesday, 22 Aug 2012 at 3:43pm

this week marks the launch of 3Dfins, a new direction in fin shape.look them up on facebook or twitter.Last year i saw the test pilots taking apart some great 4-6ft long lined up point break waves. so much extra speed from a standard thruster shape, cant imagine how they'd affect a flextail.they may even make a nugget go FAST !

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darrendobbie commented Thursday, 23 Aug 2012 at 8:11am

Im afraid there is nothing mystical about a rolled bottom. They push water and take your surfing to a plateau that sits a little below the intermediate level. As Victor said early on.. do you see anyone ripping on one? The number of people I have had come through and ask what can you do to improve the way this nugget surfs? The answer is..Don't surf it, as this seems to produce the greatest improvement in a nugget owners surfing experience.

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morgan_the_moon commented Thursday, 23 Aug 2012 at 12:18pm

Cheyne Horan won the 1999 world masters riding a McCoy nugget. It might be the masters, but I'd still suggest he'd be riding at a level above intermediate and against stiff competition.

McCoys - it seems you either love 'em or hate 'em. But I reckon they DO work and shouldn't be dismissed as a Mini Mal alternative.

It's a shame he won't apply his knowledge to some current tech, different fin configs, etc.

moore's picture
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moore commented Friday, 24 Aug 2012 at 2:30am

Hard to get any decent footage of Cheyne surfing in that comp....

I think it was at Lacanau or Biarritz and he was riding a 6ft trifin Nugget

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moore commented Friday, 24 Aug 2012 at 2:35am

Anyone know this bloke? He seems to make a good fist of surfing his McCoys

http://lyttlestreet.wordpress.com/?s=mccoy

Image

freeride76's picture
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freeride76 commented Friday, 24 Aug 2012 at 9:48am

Shane Herring on a McCoy nugget circa 98/99

Image

Image

Cheyne. Lennox Head.

Image

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sidthefish commented Friday, 24 Aug 2012 at 10:19am

don't fucken tell me freeride is back.

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darrendobbie commented Saturday, 25 Aug 2012 at 6:50am

Damn, there's photos of 3 guys ripping on nuggets. I guess that outweighs the number of guys ripping on thrusters, mals, boogies and goatboats.

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stunet commented Saturday, 25 Aug 2012 at 7:59am

"Damn, there's photos of 3 guys ripping on nuggets. I guess that outweighs the number of guys ripping on.. goatboats."

Well, actually...

freeride76's picture
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freeride76 commented Saturday, 25 Aug 2012 at 8:48am

No offence to your theory Mr Dobbie but in my 35 years surfing that carving top turn done by Herro on a 6'0" nugget remains the finest example of perfect surfing I've ever witnessed. Look at it. The form, the power, the speed, the style. It's flawless.

In a very real sense it was the last great flowering of a genius talent before it was consumed by the demons.

I feel privileged to have witnessed the union of that great talent with a magic surfboard.

Personally I enjoyed the McCoy period just prior to the nugget when he was making these fuller dimensioned shortboards during the heyday of the anorexic potato chip. They went unreal.

as you were.

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moore commented Monday, 27 Aug 2012 at 8:51pm

Hey freeride, where did you get those photos from? Do you have any video footage? Herro was unbelievable.... It would be a fine day to see him back, healthy and ripping again.

It would be good to see some close-up pics of Herro and Horan's boards. I know that Cheyne liked a hard edge quite far up on his small-wave boards, but you would have a hard job convincing Geoff to do that for the regular punter, I reckon.

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marc atkinson commented Tuesday, 28 Aug 2012 at 8:24am

There are over three thousand who have checked this thread out now and I felt there are points made by some that should be addressed for those looking at this thread for facts and information.

There are very few people who have dedicated their entire working life to the gathering of knowledge in surfboard design and surfing technique .... Geoff McCoy is one of them. This is simply because surfing is so young. Really surfing is only one lifetime old .... Think about that, we've only been gathering knowledge in this area for one lifetimes worth. Not long in the scheme of things.

So how many out there of you have given everyone of your days to surfboard design and the study of surfing technique? Yet there's many who claim true knowledge?

It's true that many try Geoff's current designs and find fault with them ... as what happens with every surfboard design. So why do some of you go so hard to discredit Geoff when you don't even understand what he is doing.

Does anyone rip on a McCoy? Anyone asking such a question does not know surfing no matter what they tell themselves. There are great surfers all over the world riding Geoff's designs that prove his boards work great .... One of our Aussie champs is one of them.

I think it was Shakespeare who said "men fear what they don't understand ": and here's where all negativity arises.

If you don't understand something, how can you begin to appreciate what it is, what its capabilities are? How can you go about utilizing its design factors? How do you come to understand how it should be surfed?

Let's examine ourselves: How many surfers dedicate everyday to surfing, surfboard design, understanding surfing technique and the physics behind both? Not many. Most everyone just goes surfing and doesn't know how they make a board turn, whether they are a back foot or a front foot surfer and who knows and understands the relative techniques that are applied to get a surfboard to turn?
And without knowing such things about ourselves as surfers we go out to buy a surfboard listening often to sales guys who really know no more than the guy trying to buy the right board from him. It's a recipe for disaster and often is.

Geoff's Nugget designs are primarily for backfoot surfing and if you don't surf them off the backfoot your going to be in all sorts of bother trying to ride them. But put them under someone who is naturally a backfoot surfer or someone who understands that they are backfoot surfboards and can make the suitable adjustments in their surfing technique and you will find no problems. Hence those loving and disliking the nugget design.

Now, the surfboard is not designed with a roll bottom as it has been suggested. Again the human art of not knowing but willing to pass comment is practiced in such statements. Geoff has come up, through all his years of designing, with the most complex bottom design ever put on a surfboard and in my personal experience the best. He calls it the Loaded Dome and it is as far removed from a roll bottom as Pluto is from the sun. Never in the near twenty years of the Loaded Dome development have I ever experienced it pushing water. In fact the opposite, it glides over water, as its designed to do.

There are many guys out there shaping and selling surfboards and claiming knowledge, myself included, but the only shaper I know truly possessing a full range of knowledge about what they are creating and why, is Geoff McCoy. I recommend that if anyone on this thread wants to know about McCoy surfboards you go to the source and give the man himself a call. He knows more about his designs than those making some of the comments on this thread, wouldn't you reckon.

By the way, Geoff doesn't just design backfoot surfboards. Though I often ride and appreciate his Nugget designs, I am naturally a front foot surfer so often prefer to ride his front foot designs when riding his boards ... which I often choose to do simply because they are a unique expression in surfing.

M.

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quadzilla commented Tuesday, 28 Aug 2012 at 12:52pm
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quadzilla commented Tuesday, 28 Aug 2012 at 12:57pm

ok, i'm not sure that the previous link will get to the interview with GM.

So, www.switch-foot.com

then clik newsletters

then scroll down to august, and amonst the subject matter is an interview about objects idiots and fools...lol....

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morgan_the_moon commented Tuesday, 28 Aug 2012 at 3:22pm

What year did Geoff McCoy start designing and selling thrusters?

It's a serious question - we know that Simon credits Geoff with the inspiration for the planshape of the first thruster, and we all know that Geoff saw it as inferior to the single fin design.

..and what led Geoff to start producing thrusters? In Geoffs experience an inferior product which didn't best suit his designs? Was it market pressure?

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moore commented Tuesday, 28 Aug 2012 at 5:20pm

Hi Marc,

I don't think anyone would accuse Geoff of not being a free thinker or dedicating his career to designing better boards to surf.

But this fact is not mutually exclusive to anyone else having an understanding of how the boards under their feet are working for them. Personally, I would definitely say that I have dedicated much of my life in the same line of thinking, occasionally when I should have been thinking of much more important things, it has to be said!

Geoff is indeed an interesting and humble bloke to speak to, but I think a few of us may just wish that, every now and again, he would entertain the odd idea coming from the punter and incorporate his knowledge into that idea; the quad experiments by some riders are just an example of this.

On the other hand, I can understand his reticence; you would have a hard job commisioning a portrait artist to paint a landscape, for example.

Plenty of folk love their McCoys, which is great. I think I would certainly try another myself when the time comes.

There's also plenty of shapers around these days who will listen to their customers, trust their judgement and make a true custom board for them. This is good, too. It's not a bad time to be a surfer, wherever in the world you live.

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marc atkinson commented Tuesday, 28 Aug 2012 at 5:41pm

Interesting questions Morgan.

As I said earlier I've been working on and off with McCoy since 1971 with his then side man Peter Lawrence and it was then I was given my first McCoy three fin design. But back then it was a very different board to what Simon came up with. I can't remember why it all got put on the back burner, but it did. I had that board for ages so I must have liked it. But I do remember sanding the side fins out at some stage and going back to the single. Again I can't remember why.

Geoff never has been against multi fins, remembering he was once called the twin fin king and you can bet your life someone somewhere stuck a back fin in behind those twin fins. But in terms of Thrusters he was making them from the get go, though his personal preference leans always toward single fins for that feeling that only a single can give to riding a wave.

M.

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marc atkinson commented Tuesday, 28 Aug 2012 at 6:16pm

Hi Moore

With what Geoff is doing now it is almost impossible for him to create a custom as your suggesting as with his designs he is designing for complete neutrality from his boards. So any suggestion that compromises this effect of neutrality he has to dismiss to keep moving toward to the goal. When Geoff says things like it doesn't work, what he is really saying is 'it compromises the purpose of my designs'.

Bottom line with old man McCoy is he is pursuing an ideal that his life has taken him to. I've often said to him he has painted himself into a marketing corner, but when it comes to surfing he is totally focus on his energy theory which calls for this neutrality in surfboard design that he strives for.

This past year I have been off working on designs with Rob Fenech and having a great time exploring other areas, but this week I've got two new McCoy's coming and am frothing like a grommet.

Cheers
M.

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moore commented Tuesday, 28 Aug 2012 at 8:13pm

Fair do's, Marc.

You certainly can't knock McCoy for not being passionate about what he does or for not sticking to his guns.

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quadzilla commented Tuesday, 28 Aug 2012 at 8:59pm

talking about GUNS, the Waimea and Maverick regulars are using quad set ups, i suppose they havent heard that the gullfins are faster!