Peace will never take root

peterb's picture
peterb started the topic in Tuesday, 23 May 2017 at 8:27pm

..... in a society where violence is tolerated.

President Trump, days after signing a multi-billion dollar arms agreement with Saudi Arabia.
Discuss.
No one else is.

AndyM's picture
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AndyM commented Tuesday, 23 May 2017 at 8:40pm

Business as usual Pete.

peterb's picture
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peterb commented Tuesday, 23 May 2017 at 9:15pm

Violence will always take root in a society where where peace cannot be tolerated.
And America will provide the weapons.
Discuss.

happyasS's picture
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happyasS commented Tuesday, 23 May 2017 at 10:26pm

trump has no moral or ethical bone in his body.

hes the sort to completely turn a blind eye when business is involved.

'open for business' was the pertinent reference here in australia. many parallels in my mind.

Gaz1799's picture
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Gaz1799 commented Wednesday, 24 May 2017 at 9:33am

https://www.vox.com/2017/5/20/15626638/trump-saudi-arabia-arms-deal

I'm clueless about middle-eastern bullshit but it looks like a group in Yemen is raging against the saudi's and have the backing of iran? So I'm assuming the US is backing the saudi's to finger iran?

So now they're dropping another $100bil of weapons into the middle east. What could possibly go wrong? It's worked out really well every other time.

peterb's picture
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peterb commented Wednesday, 24 May 2017 at 10:17am

gazi ...
These are the major middle-eastern players whose intention is to establish a nuclear-armed peace in their region in our time.
Saudi + USA + Israel
These are the players their weapons are pointed at.
Russia + Syria + Iran
These are the players sitting on the fence.
Egypt + Turkey

I like it simple.

talkingturkey's picture
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talkingturkey commented Wednesday, 24 May 2017 at 10:38am

"It's not goodies versus baddies, it's baddies versus baddies"

K.I.S.S

I think you'll agree that this savvy, sage and sober assessment pretty much covers all the Middle East bases.

Now who was that particular "suppository of wisdom" again?

peterb's picture
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peterb commented Wednesday, 24 May 2017 at 11:14am

... and not to forget the long-prepared battleground, Iraq.

talkingturkey's picture
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talkingturkey commented Wednesday, 24 May 2017 at 11:41am

Saddam was one bad, bad hombre.

All evil losers.

Yew!

Gaz1799's picture
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Gaz1799 commented Wednesday, 24 May 2017 at 11:43am

I think I prefer it simple too. I'll be honest the middle-east is that cooked I just tune it out now when I see something on it. Life's simpler that way. I remember a time when the name Isis was only used by strippers and Saddam was the only middle-eastern madman we had to hear about.

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peterb commented Wednesday, 24 May 2017 at 12:10pm

Makes you want to love your neighbour.

Mort's picture
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Mort commented Saturday, 1 Jul 2017 at 9:54pm

Peace will never take root, it is a Profound Question. I do not have a Green Thumb, but I have a little bit of understanding about this World.

We can be mean, really, we can be mean. We also be kind, really, we can be kind. I am searchin for the weeds, why they are weeds. I used to piss my Mum off and pull out her nice plants, so I didn't have to pull out the bloody weeds.

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Mort commented Saturday, 1 Jul 2017 at 11:16pm

..-..--..-.

philosurphizingkerching's picture
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philosurphizing... commented Sunday, 2 Jul 2017 at 7:49am

I remember listening to bbc radio in the early hours of the morning and they were playing Trumps foreign policy speech, this was prior to him becoming president.
The one thing that struck me was the number of times Iran was mentioned.

Looks as though the world won't change much for the next 100 years because that's how long the oil reserves will last.

And the corporatocracy wants to own Irans oil.

Proved oil reserves in Iran, according to its government, rank fourth largest in the world at approximately 150 billion barrels (24×109 m3) as of 2013, although it ranks third if Canadian reserves of unconventional oil are excluded.[1] This is roughly 10% of the world's total proven petroleum reserves. At 2006 rates of production, Iran's oil reserves would last 98 years if no new oil was found.

philosurphizingkerching's picture
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philosurphizing... commented Sunday, 2 Jul 2017 at 7:49am

I remember listening to bbc radio in the early hours of the morning and they were playing Trumps foreign policy speech, this was prior to him becoming president.
The one thing that struck me was the number of times Iran was mentioned.

Looks as though the world won't change much for the next 100 years because that's how long the oil reserves will last.

And the corporatocracy wants to own Irans oil.

Proved oil reserves in Iran, according to its government, rank fourth largest in the world at approximately 150 billion barrels (24×109 m3) as of 2013, although it ranks third if Canadian reserves of unconventional oil are excluded.[1] This is roughly 10% of the world's total proven petroleum reserves. At 2006 rates of production, Iran's oil reserves would last 98 years if no new oil was found.

Gaz1799's picture
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Gaz1799 commented Tuesday, 4 Jul 2017 at 11:21am

To anyone who knows middle-eastern politics - do you think the US would be silently backing Saudi Arabia, the United Arab Emirates, Egypt and Bahrain in their plight against Qatar or do they have an interest in Qatar's longevity?

Apparently the US already hosts an airbase there jointly with the USA & the British from the gulf war. Google machine says Qatar has 12,000 defence force personnel in total so they don't really have any kind of military deterrent to add to their tough negotiating stance against the bigger players.

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frog commented Tuesday, 4 Jul 2017 at 9:14pm

The answer to the ME questions are Yes while it is very profitable, Yes if it sells more arms, No if it helps Russia in any way, Yes if it is scary to the US population and europe allowing manipulation of scared sheeple (early ISIS) but No if is a bit too scary and too many heads get chopped off (later ISIS), Yes if if makes nuclear Armageddon seem more likely to justify more arms build up but No (hopefully) if someone is almost about to push the button, Yes if it makes desired bad guys look bad whether they did it or not and No if it allows non US aligned countries make a good quid. Yes if it make Putin look bad, No if it makes him look good, Yes if it leads to good campaign donations, Yes if it helps sell Trump real estate to rich arabs, yes if it creates chaos in countries competing with the favoured nations and no if is leads to peace and prosperity for all.

Quite simple really.

Frogg

Mort's picture
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Mort commented Wednesday, 5 Jul 2017 at 12:47am

You are complicating it. You Dufice.

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Mort commented Wednesday, 5 Jul 2017 at 12:48am

I hate maths.

Mort's picture
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Mort commented Wednesday, 5 Jul 2017 at 12:49am

You dufice.

Quint's picture
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Quint commented Wednesday, 17 Jan 2018 at 7:01am

Peace can't take root while we have John Maynard Keynes financial system (Babylonian banking) that relies on feudalism as a key ingredient. Hence Bitcoin et al.

blindboy's picture
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blindboy commented Wednesday, 17 Jan 2018 at 12:10pm

....or while racist idiots still quote The Protocols of the Elders of Zion.

Sheepdog's picture
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Sheepdog commented Wednesday, 17 Jan 2018 at 4:51pm

On a world scale, we actually live in fairly "peaceful" times. But with the advent of 24/7 media, it may not seem that way. Fear + clicks.
Was a lot more gnarly in 1940, or 1950, or 1970, or even 1980 which had wars between Iraq and Iran, El Salvador, Rwanda, Terrorism in Spain.

Sheepdog

zenagain's picture
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zenagain commented Thursday, 18 Jan 2018 at 12:48am

True Sheepy, if you take Africa and the Middle East out of the equasion and a couple of little skirmishes in Myannmar and the Flips and the northern suburbs of Melbourne, the world is quite tranquil.

Watashi wa metabo oyagi desu.

eat-your-vegies's picture
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eat-your-vegies commented Thursday, 18 Jan 2018 at 9:38am

It’s all about to change soon.
Me thinks.

Fleazool's picture
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Fleazool commented Thursday, 18 Jan 2018 at 11:05am

Humans have been fighting since before cocky was an egg.
It's natural selection. Only difference is now we can tweet about it.

factotum's picture
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factotum commented Sunday, 28 Apr 2019 at 5:26pm
Westofthelake's picture
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Westofthelake commented Sunday, 28 Apr 2019 at 5:39pm

Good read facto.

Where do I sign up?

For the counter-recruitment that is.

factotum's picture
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factotum commented Sunday, 28 Apr 2019 at 5:57pm

Right here, Westo.

"Ask not what Swellnet can do for you - ask what you can do for Swellnet.”

Oh, and your country and the kids and some shit.

Ape Anonymous's picture
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Ape Anonymous commented Monday, 29 Apr 2019 at 10:45am

A buddhist would say "ignorance, stupidity and greed are the devil". Has anyone seen peace in themselves?

sypkan's picture
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sypkan commented Monday, 29 Apr 2019 at 12:56pm

"A buddhist would say "ignorance, stupidity and greed are the devil". Has anyone seen peace in themselves?"

A couple of times, when in the desert or the indonesian jungle. When I'm far enough away from the news that ignorance is bliss. Far enough away from the stupidity of all those eurokooks, that things seem truly blissful. And far enough away from the contemporary competition of consumerism that a battered up old surfboard is all I need and that ugly greed is gone...

Truly zen-ful!

I've read enough about buddhism to know this isn't what you mean. But to also know, that this is probably as close to nirvana as I'm ever likely to get without seriously dropping out of modern society.

How about you anonymous ape?

Ever truly found that inner peace without all that 'stuff' we all have and want in modern society?

factotum's picture
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factotum commented Monday, 29 Apr 2019 at 1:32pm
Blowin's picture
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Blowin commented Monday, 29 Apr 2019 at 2:36pm

Did you read the comments on your link ?

The Conversation as representative of academic excellence is very greatly lacking.

factotum's picture
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factotum commented Monday, 29 Apr 2019 at 2:41pm

Yeah, you're Right, it's definitely no Blowipedia.

sypkan's picture
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sypkan commented Monday, 29 Apr 2019 at 2:56pm

"...BBS’s rhetoric takes its cue from other populist anti-Muslim movements around the globe, claiming that Muslims are “taking over” the country thanks to a high birth rate. It also accuses Muslim organisations of funding international terrorism with money from Halal-certified food industries. These aren’t just empty words; in 2014, one of their anti-Muslim protest rallies in the southern town of Aluthgama ended with the death of four Muslims."

Replacement theory, straight outa tarrents playbook...

And, halal cerification processes funding terrorism, straight outa everyone's anti-islam playbook...

I heard a muslim on the abc say there is a small element of truth to this so called 'conspiracy'.

These are all just territorial wars, where 'religion' is the group's identifyer and hope giver. Even for the most peaceful of religions.

Christians, muslims, buddhists, everyone, needs to stop using this jihadist/crusader type language and realise what war everyone is actually fighting - a territorial one, and a battle for resources.

Globalisation and it's overarching philosophies have tried way too hard to fulfill their idealistic dream. Encouraging too much change way too quickly for most people. Everyone needs to back off a bit and let cultures and countries do their own thing for a while.

Which would mean the 'davos class' and the hilary clintons of the world practising a little self reflection....which don't seem to be happening anytime soon....

Blowin's picture
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Blowin commented Monday, 29 Apr 2019 at 3:04pm

Nup. It’s a religious war.

Mothers don’t pack their kid’s backpacks full of explosives and detonate them in order to secure a bigger allocation of neighbourhood resources for them.

sypkan's picture
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sypkan commented Monday, 29 Apr 2019 at 3:23pm

hmmmm good point...
One would normally argue (and this used to be the argument) that these are poor people with nothing to live for, being taken advantage of.

But increasingly it is evident that these people are wealthy, very wealthy, and quite often the benefactors of a western education. As was the case with one of the sri lankan bombers, september 11 attackers, and the mastermind of it all himself...osama bin ladan...

But I still say that too much change too quick in a rapidly globalising world is the problem.

People are feeling that their cultures, and that their very existence is being threatened...

Honkeys, brownies, everybodies...

Velocityjohhno was all over it in his identitarian post....which he was ridiculed for...of course....

indo-dreaming's picture
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indo-dreaming commented Monday, 29 Apr 2019 at 3:16pm

The comments are better and more revealing than the article.

If you know buddhist are fighting back and using violence anywhere, you know there is a damn good reason why.

For further reference and common sense.

General Social issues: Rita Panahi & Lauren Southern
Indigenous issues: Jacinta Price and Anthony Dillion
Gender: Debra Soh.
Islam: Armin Navabi & Brigitte Gabriel
Population: Dick Smith

factotum's picture
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factotum commented Monday, 29 Apr 2019 at 3:22pm

Fuck-a-duck! One helluva topic. It's brought the three stooges back together!

Nyuk Nyuk Nyuk!

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factotum commented Monday, 29 Apr 2019 at 5:05pm
indo-dreaming's picture
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indo-dreaming commented Monday, 29 Apr 2019 at 5:32pm

For further reference and common sense.

General Social issues: Rita Panahi & Lauren Southern
Indigenous issues: Jacinta Price and Anthony Dillion
Gender: Debra Soh.
Islam: Armin Navabi & Brigitte Gabriel
Population: Dick Smith

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velocityjohnno commented Monday, 29 Apr 2019 at 5:38pm

hey hey sypkan, of course I'm all over it, and of course it will play out that I'm right on this one. Don't mind if I am ridiculed, they are part of a dominant ideology having its foundations washed away by events. I am right because history is cyclical, not linear, and people's psychology does not change despite technology changing; and thus circumstance seems to rhyme. Have a look at the last time globalism decayed away, that one was the end of the Pax Britannica earned by Nelson and Wellington and shuddering from the turn of the 20th century (Chamberlain's 'Imperial Preference' marked a turn away from the open global trade and interaction), taking a big hit with the Titanic, and via some terrible miscalculations of statesmanship, descending into all out war by 1914.

You know that you are annoying when you can make Buddhists turn to violence.

factotum's picture
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factotum commented Monday, 29 Apr 2019 at 6:22pm

I know how you blokes like a good anecdote...

Man, Buddhist monks are annoying. Jeez, the time I had to sit next to this chain-smoking fucker on a bus from Luang Prabang to Vientiane! I had the window seat and he wouldn't even acknowledge my existence let alone move an inch when I wanted to get out for a breather. Even when I offered to swap seats. Even when I had to climb all over him and farted in his general direction. Not on purpose.

Quite comical, actually.

This sort of stuff, not so much...

http://sea-globe.com/the-sound-of-silence-sexual-abuse-in-cambodias-budd...

Fucking religion, hey?

As for that identitarian bunkum, the lessons of history count for nothing? Can't be nipped in the bud?

Even gasp, on here!!!!

Rather than paying it dubious lip-service?

Yeah, I'm looking at you Avi Yemini fan-boy.

Actually, while you're here Curls, do you ever critically question or state a counter-argument or even take the piss outta your ghetto-dog homies in the real world when they spout tired old shit? Or are you a nod along to get along type?

Surely, not a believer?!

zenagain's picture
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zenagain commented Monday, 29 Apr 2019 at 6:39pm

I caught one of those long speed boats from Luang Prabang to Vientienne about 20 years ago (you know the ones- maybe an old exposed toyota 4 cylinder, no exhaust, long trailing prop). It was a hoot.

Twas sat in the pointy end on the way back from Europe once with half a dozen orange robed monks, they had all the tech.

Good business religion if you can get in to it.

Watashi wa metabo oyagi desu.

Blowin's picture
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Blowin commented Monday, 29 Apr 2019 at 6:42pm

VJ - have you got a link to what you were saying on identarianism ?

factotum's picture
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factotum commented Monday, 29 Apr 2019 at 6:46pm

Haha Zen, did the same sort of boat ride myself down the Mekong mid 2000s! Once done, never forgotten. Don't forget your helmet! Apparently the slow boat was the less comfortable option!

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zenagain commented Monday, 29 Apr 2019 at 6:51pm

Totally, we did the slow boat for the first leg and it was fun for about 10 minutes.

Watashi wa metabo oyagi desu.

factotum's picture
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factotum commented Monday, 29 Apr 2019 at 6:59pm

Did you stay in some dodgy swampy 'village' overnight?

indo-dreaming's picture
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indo-dreaming commented Monday, 29 Apr 2019 at 7:22pm

No religion and it's people are perfect, which is no surprise seeing religions are just human created concepts followed by other humans.

But give me Buddhism any day over any other religion, with Hinduism coming in second.

Personally I take my hat off to the Buddhist standing up for their people and countries, too many countries (including Indonesia) have been overtaken by Islam.

Imagine how good Indonesia would be if it was still majority Hindu and Buddhist, such a shame.

For further reference and common sense.

General Social issues: Rita Panahi & Lauren Southern
Indigenous issues: Jacinta Price and Anthony Dillion
Gender: Debra Soh.
Islam: Armin Navabi & Brigitte Gabriel
Population: Dick Smith

zenagain's picture
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zenagain commented Monday, 29 Apr 2019 at 7:35pm

I did, and have to correct, we slowboated to the first place, dumpy swampy village, over dinner agreed to all chip in and get the speedboat to Luang Prabang and then bussed it to Vientienne (that was a nightmare in itself). I think the village was called Pakbeng, i can't recall. I do recall an old fella giving me a shot of some local spirit. Thought the bugger was trying to poison me.

Good times.

Watashi wa metabo oyagi desu.

sypkan's picture
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sypkan commented Monday, 29 Apr 2019 at 7:45pm

"...Actually, while you're here Curls, do you ever critically question or state a counter-argument or even take the piss outta your ghetto-dog homies in the real world when they spout tired old shit? Or are you a nod along to get along type?

Surely, not a believer?!"

Interesting you ask that question factobum, because, anongst the homies, I usually play your role.

You know - the annoying, condescending, politically correct, belittling know it all - trying to keep the deplorables in line...

But with recent developments, say in the last 15 - 20 years, well at least after a couple of years following september 11 anyway, the position of 'the annoying, condescending, politically correct, belittling know it all' has become increasingly untenable.

From my warped perspective - and I am a true believer in some parts of post modernism - this is a result of the fetishisation of identity politics as much as anything else.

Yes the 'muslim situation' has deteriorated significantly in that time, so I think it's only natural people start to ask questions. But the answer to those questions from 'the annoying, condescending politically correct, belittling know it all' types has only been to double down on those annoying condescending tactics that clearly weren't working anyway - and haven't worked for quite some time...

So no I'm not a 'believer'.

I'm a pragmatist. To be honest I couldn't give a shit about 'replacement theory', and a heap of the other associated bullshit. And, while I'm being honest, I'm a bit of an aussie cultural cringer at heart. The type of folk blowin rails about vehemently. But, I have come to agree with blowin somewhat, especially in regard to people having the right and need to enjoy some form of natiionalism and identity. I also agree with him that the 'white guilt' perspective on things has been taken way too far, way way too far. Along with a heap of other oversteps from the contemporary left.

So nah, definitely not a believer, not even close.

I'm a true believer in multiculturalism if anything.

I just think the contemporary 'left', and its over- fetishisation of identity politics in university culture over the last few decades has done more to undermine multiculturalism than to preserve it, despite their pious righteousness.

So that's me factobum. Care to share something of the 'self'....

Enlighten us with your vision perhaps?

Please! please!

(I really am tiring of asking...)