What a cringeworthy, spineless response to a change in US legislation which impacts many Australians. Up yours Mal, you pathetic, over-privileged prat! No conviction, no courage, not even enough wit to see where the interests of the country rest.
shhhh. you'll wake up our refugees.
Follows the great Australian government tradition of subservience and sycophancy to the US.
Mark Kenny's article reminds us of Nixon's infamous "grab them by the balls and let there hearts and minds follow" statement and highlights Trump must have Turnbull's firmly clutched in both hands.
If you are wondering where all this arse licking can get us look no further that all the wars Australia has fought "as an alliance partner" dating back to Vietnam.
We need a fiercely independent American free foreign policy urgently.
On this refugee thing the question to ask is do we really want to send them to Trump's America?
So where do the interests of the country rest , Blindboy ?
You got to be kidding me another Trump thread?...How many do we really need?
BTW. I really really hope that refugee resettlement swap deal goes through (even if they don't deserve resettlement ahead of other more deserving refugees seeing they are confirmed country shoppers turning down resettlement in PNG and Cambodia)
Hopefully they can work towards closing Manus and Nauru seeing we now have come to our senses and are turning boats back.(Just like we do to refugees who arrive via plane without a passport and Visa)
its looking shaky indo. but its kind of irrelevant anyhow. australia could well and truly settle them here without sending out a "gates open' message. after all we've been putting them through I doubt we could even pay refugees to come here by boat anymore.
but seriously what do we expect our PM to actually do? hes not going to come out and slam Trump . aside from the fact trump would ignore him, what would it achieve? he'll politely state his position on a matter and step to the next issue.
as for the interests of australia. Turnbull is still pushing to see the TPP and for China to join. hes openly said that he doesnt believe protectionism is in anyones interests. i dont know if this passes our "interests" test, but its certainly in opposition to trump.
BTW, if anyone needs a trump-ectomy. it doesnt hurt. just switch off your phone/laptop.
Trump confirmed yesterday the deal is still on, doesn't mean it will definitely happen but it's a very good sign, he is a business man first politician second meaning as crazy as he may be it's more likely he will stick to his word than a politician, if he had no intentions of doing the deal, he would have said straight out, it wasn't my promise Obama is gone and so is his promises.
Over 13,000 refugees and plenty of people smugglers waiting in Indonesia for any sign that it is time to have another go of getting here, turning back boats is fine when it's a trickle but if it came as a flood one or two boats could sneak to far through to turn back, putting us back at square one, in either needing to put a new lot of refugees in detention or processing them encouraging more.
So never going to happen, even this deal has the risk of a trigger effect and the government will surely step up patrols when it gets close to happening.
"What a cringeworthy, spineless response to a change in US legislation which impacts many Australians. Up yours Mal, you pathetic, over-privileged prat! No conviction, no courage, not even enough wit to see where the interests of the country rest."
Is this about the ban on refugees and that 3 month freeze on 7 certain countries? If yes, how can Australia even consider opening its word hole? I just went through the whole boat people thread in politico, Blind Boy........ Not one comment from you...... Not one.... Where do you stand, and why have you found your selective voice all of a sudden?
Blurt Shitter at the press club today reiterated Labor would NOT be bringing the "illegals" from manus or Nauru here... A flat no....
So I'll stick to my "Manichean tendencies".... And you can do, well, whatever it is you do ;)
Too much happening in the real world (local version) the last few days sheepy. Also a bit hard to follow all the tangents people have taken. I should have time to seriously consider some of the things you have posted later in the week! Oh and yes, I probably was wrong about the reason for Trump's selection of countries.
dunno if it would trigger anything indo. i get your point, but the message to asylum seekers and people smugglers is pretty loud and clear either way where people are settled here there or anywhere. the message being, your going to spend several years offshore, then end up somewhere you didnt think you'd end up. thats gotta be fairly offputting
happy writes "your going to spend several years offshore, then end up somewhere you didnt think you'd end up"
Still a better option than Alleppo, between being a human shield for Isis and a RAAF bomb.... Or a border refugee camp being suicide bombed....
i noticed shorten today was re-highlighting the need for proper/more organised resettlement through the UN. its disapointing that we're still talking about that but not actually doing anything. and the result of course is countries like australia and US getting their back up, while Germany, Turkey, Iran etc foot the responsibility. we are actually going backwards on this issue. in any case the sooner we get our 1500 out of detention and into the US the better for them at least. i think it still leaves about 400 or so that havent been afforded refugee status. very small number. i assume the government just sends them home? not sure exactly if it works that way.
After hearing about the hissy fit trump allegedly threw at big mal on the phone over this refugee deal I have to wonder if he really is the spineless prat blindboy was calling him earlier.
I've always assumed him to be as soft as wet cardboard & if the deal falls through I'll continue to assume the same, however maybe soft old mal has a bit of mongrel in him yet? For all we know he's a regular Kevin Rudd when no one else is looking.
I bet the prospect of trump shafting him over this deal definitely gets his cravat in a twist.
I hope for the sake of those refugees they can sort their shit out one way or the other.
Gazza, got a cat?
A Mate in the States comment:
"Usually, the American broadsheets could not give a fuck about US-Australia relations. That this is in WaPo just shows how batshit crazy this was."
Dont agree at all Happy, anything can be a trigger no matter how small change of policy, change of government etc people smugglers would be very convincing and
im sure refugees could easily be sold that now is the time to make a move.
And if they could even get to Manus or Nauru despite what the left want you to believe the majority of refugees would much rather be living somewhere like Manus or Nauru living at or close to a developed country standard, with everything provided free of charge, food, shelter (running water, electricity even AC and flat screen TV's, Hot water etc) medical care, legal advice, phone, internet, clothing, even a spending allowance.
Yes they are living in limbo, but at some stage they have to be dealt with.
Those not in that position never have to be dealt with and may be in limbo for the rest of their lifes, stuck in a third world refugee camp without running water, electricity, any mod cons living in tents, at best basic staples provided, I'm sure many die of preventable disease etc because of lack of medial care.
Or for those refugees stuck in Indo, they still need to spend money to survive, they can not legally work and from what I've seen in Indonesian press numerous time and is never reported in Australia, refugees are not wanted in Indonesia and refugees are generally not viewed in a positive light by locals especially African refugee's, an example http://www.thejakartapost.com/news/2016/11/14/group-threatens-to-burn-re...
oh well..... This shit can happen when you demonize refugees... Australia led the world on this... We have had our marine "border wall" in place long before anyone else. Trump is just catching up, and now it's biting the Australian government on the arse.
Meanwhile men women and children are still locked up like dogs.
Could be in NZ by now.....
Except they are not locked up 80% of refugees on Nauru live in the community and those at the centre are free to come and go 24/7.
Since May 2016 those on Manus are also not locked up and can go into town when they like.
All refugees in both centres have also turned down resettlement deals in PNG and Cambodia country that are signed to the refugee convention and have been long before we had offshore detention centres.
They are also free to go home at anytime as some have in past when situations change, the government even provides financial packages to asset them in resettling.
This isn't the action of a statesman or leader. Trump cares not that we have lots of vital military bases on our soil that immediately puts us at risk in the event he upsets someone anyone with nuclear weapons. Time to wind all that back, time to start the removal of all this hardware.
Australia now has a once in a generation opportunity to develop a independent (America free) foreign policy just like New Zealand has.
Haha good article turkey I knew there had to be some dirt on him around somewhere. I remember also hearing that Kerry Packer made a threat on mals life when he shafted him over the fairfax deal 20 years ago and mal arced up said "we'll you'd better not miss coz I won't!"
"Except they are not locked up 80% of refugees on Nauru live in the community and those at the centre are free to come and go 24/7."
Soooo believing..... So trusting.....
Most of them are too terrified for fear of bashings and rape.
Wrong quote from me, that's Nauru not Manus(PNG) two very different places.
But i do agree on the point in regards to PNG, PNG was a silly place to put a detention centre and i do agree it's not a safe place for refugees to be resettled or even mingle in the community, it was only opened up to get around the legal problems last year, it wasn't opened up earlier like Nauru because really it's not safe for refugees to mingle in the community.
It's a real bad mix Papuans don't take any kind of shit, they are such strong minded people and violence is almost a daily part of life in PNG they have some of the highest levels of domestic violence and sexual based violence in the world (hence why there is now only men at Manus)
And many from the middle east countries look down on very dark skinned people, although it hasn't been reported in the media rumour is incidents in the past have been over racial slurs etc.
If any of those refugees ever set foot in the US I will be amazed. Trump will vet them out of existence.
Trump is just following a certain trailblazing country really, BB.....
"we will decide who comes to this country and the circumstances in which they come."
Perhaps if you and the like had've shown the same venom and backbone towards Howard, Rudd, Gillard, Abbott, Turnbull AND Shorten instead of concentrating on other countries immigration policies, those people would be settled here, or at worse NZ.....
But guess what, BB..... they are still locked up.... With Shorten's blessing..
hopefully this triggers our government to realise that we need to be more involved in refugee solutions at the source to ease the influx pressures on those more willing countries. the problem isnt going to go away and now with countries like britain and the US moving more towards protectionism measures the problem will likely get worse. already the IRAQ military forces are slowly losing bits of ground to ISIS. and similarly with the Taliban in Afghanistan. to pull out of the middle east would be a disaster blowin. when you've committed you have to follow through.
...or you & the like, Doggo?
I've been copping it in the neck since I was harrassed at the anti Iraq war rally in Coolum, in front of Alex somlyay's office waaaaaay back when, turks.... Goons in suits and dark glasses, taking pics and intimidating all of us.... Been fighting the good fight even here...... If you are bored, troll through politico.... You'll see.....
Hold the phones! THE transcript has been hacked/leaked by Anonymous!
Malcolm TURNBULL: Good morning, Mr President.
Donald TRUMP: Good evening. They tell me it’s evening where you are. That’s a terrible system. Different time zones make it very difficult to do business. From now on, it’s daytime in Australia, got it?
TURNBULL: Yes, sir.
TRUMP: I’ve talked to so many countries today. Some of the most terrific countries. Countries you’ve never even heard of. I’ve had the leaders of over five hundred countries all pledge their support to me. No other President has had that many countries behind them. It’s a beautiful thing.
TURNBULL: And naturally, the people of my country extend their best wishes for a smooth—
TRUMP: [muffled] Steve, put that TV back on CNN. I don’t care if you just like his little moustache, stop watching your videos in the oval office. Use one of the TVs in the bathroom. Don’t disturb the peacock.
TURNBULL: As I was saying, Australia is committed to—
TRUMP: Hold on. [muffled] Reince, what’s the deal with Australia? Do they like me? Uh huh. Right. [clears throat] My people say that Australia changes leaders every two years. Your government is very unstable, very unstable.
TRUMP: That’s fantastic. We’re trying something similar here. Have you heard of “the rule of law”? It’s a complete disaster. Just a mess. We’re getting rid of it. Drain the swamp, that’s what I say. We’re draining the swamp. You should drain your swamp too. Get the corruption out of there. Put your own people in.
TURNBULL: Well, something you and I could bond over is the media has been hounding me to disclose my financial contributions to my own party…
TRUMP: You GIVE money to your party? That’s a sucker deal. Have you ever read The Art of the Deal? I wrote it, apparently. Name’s on the cover and everything. Second best book next to The Bible. Actually, probably first best book. Bible’s out of copyright. Terrible failure. Can’t make money that way.
TURNBULL: The contribution was important in order to secure re-election. It was only a million or two, nothing significant.
TRUMP: What the hell kind of leader are you? Here’s what you do: get one of your hotels. You have some hotels, right? I think I stayed at a Turner when I was in Australia. Nice place. Not as nice as Trump Tower. You hold all your events at your hotel, then send them the bill. Done. You’ve just made money off this deal and you get to be leader of a country. That’s a tremendous deal.
TURNBULL: Well, I don’t want to disclose my contributions because I’m trying to put myself across as a man of the people. I don’t want people to find out how rich I am.
TRUMP: Oh yeah, I’m the same. I’m much richer than I let on. I said I’m not releasing my tax returns because the world isn’t ready for a trillionaire. [muffled] Trillion is bigger than billion, right? Which is bigger? Someone get Jared, all questions about numbers go through Jared. Steve, you’d better take off your hood before he gets here.
TURNBULL: Mr President, I want to bring up the refugee deal Australia made with the United States under Barack Obama…
TRUMP: Obama, terrible President. The worst. Weak on terror, ineffective. It was a very sad thing to watch. But I think he liked me a lot. We had great chemistry. The highest chemistry. At least two million. [muffled] Jared, what’s a high number in chemistry? Two million is good, right?
TURNBULL: As you know, President Obama agreed to take over a thousand refugees we have in detention.
TRUMP: Terrible deal. He should have called me, I do the best deals. We’ll take ten thousand refugees, or the whole thing’s off. [muffled] What? I thought refugee was the name for Australian currency. Hold on. Martin, like I said, we’re not taking any refugees. No chance, no how.
TURNBULL: President Trump, the deal we made—
TRUMP: You’ve got some bad hombres in that part of the world. What’s Australian for hombre? Steve says it’s hombro. You’ve got some bad hombros over there. Your whole country is falling apart. The crime is terrible, just terrible.
TURNBULL: Actually, our crime rate is relatively—
TRUMP: Here’s what we’ll do. We’ll honour the agreement, because I honour all of my agreements, I’m a very trustworthy person. Some think I’m too trustworthy, they say Donald, you’ve got to stop being so trustworthy, I can’t handle trusting you so much, but that’s just who I am. So I’m going to honour the agreement, but that just means we vet them. And I’m talking extreme vetting. You know I’m all about extreme vetting. Everybody knows it. We do background check, foreground check, we put their children in jail, we kill their parents, we waterboard them for a year or two, and then we let them go. Not inside our borders, we’ll send whatever’s left of them back to you. Those are the terms.
TURNBULL: I understand. The important thing is that I’m able to go on television and tell everyone the deal is still on.
TRUMP: I order you not to tell them that.
TURNBULL: I’m sorry, Mr President, but I don’t take orders from you. Unless your name is Her Majesty Queen Elizabeth, or Governor-General Sir Peter Cosgrove, or Scott Morrison, or Peter Dutton, or George Brandis, or George Christensen, or Corey Bernardi, Pauline Hanson, Alan Jones, Andrew Bolt, Leigh Sales, Waleed Aly, uh… I’ve forgotten the rest. But I don’t take orders from you. Unless you tell me otherwise.
TRUMP: This is the worst phone call I’ve ever had in my life. [muffled] Steve, send some troops into Australia. How far south of Mexico are you guys?
TURNBULL: Uh, right under it. If you look at a map, we’re called El Salvador. That’s Australian for “Australia”.
TRUMP: We’re coming for you. I’m going to watch some TV now. [muffled] Steve, you said one more phone call and I’m allowed some TV time, right? Reince, hang up this phone.
That was pretty fucken good, Parrot.
If Sheepy had his way we'd be living the German dream regarding " refugees ".
More idiocy from Blowin.... Get a world map.
Speaking of world maps, did you know there is over 50 countries in the world signed to the refugee convention that are closer to places where most refugees come from like Sudan and Syria etc than Australia is.
Start counting http://reliefweb.int/sites/reliefweb.int/files/resources/505187992.pdf
Looking at a world map, you can also start to understand why New Zealand and Canada can take the approach they do, they are furthest from where refugees flee and to get to these countries you must bypass other developed countries (for Canada USA and for Australia, NZ)
Indo, I've noticed you are very well informed on matters to support your arguments here on our country's tough refugee policies. You seem to always make multiple comments on any development etc. Why the interest? Do you have a job in the area? or do you belong to a political party or an organisation or group with a special interest in refugee policy?
Sheepy, World map just illustrates how far people will travel, not whether they'll come or not .
Unless you've got a different map than I do ?
Breaking news...... PM dawg has just announced he has pulled out of the refugee deal with the USA, as he does not want to cause President Trump and his new administration any problems in it's first months of Office.. PM Dawg has said processing of the refugees will begin immediately, and will be settled in Australia and New Zealand, on the proviso refugees move to farming areas that cannot find enough pickers.
Trump tweets "Australia .... Good peeeeeeple....
Shortly after, Pm Dawg announces all service personel will be pulled out of active theatres in Afghanistan, Iraq, and Syria, as "we have to put Australia's security first. ""We can't go fighting other people's battles" Dawg said. When asked about how the USA will respond to this, PM dawg said "My concern is stability in our region of the world, and better relations with our neighbours. "
Pm Dawg has also cancelled the French sub deal, and naval building will be started again in Adelaide. He also hinted at becoming becoming a nuclear armed country... Pm dawg said "these are testing times. My goal is for Australia to become a defensively self sufficient nation non reliant on any treaty or alliance. We owe it to ourselves. We have our own uranium... We need jobs... And in the next 20 years a lot of things can happen.... So it is best to look at all possible scenarios."
More to come.....
Hey Dog, couple of questions -
Do you have a limit on the number of refugees annually allowed into Australia?
If the U.S. brings trade sanctions against Australia as retribution for not being their lickspittle, and the Australian economy subsequently shits itself, how will you address this?
Sooooooo blowin, you're telling me that "ease of travel" has nothing to do with the choice where someone will go? Spare me...... You can walk to europe from syria.....
And the shit fight between Russia and it's allies against the USA and its allies over the Syrian pipeline to europe has a lot to do with the whole mess.... These are the countries that should be picking up the pieces... Germany, france etc are taking part in the war.... So are we.... They should morally take refugees..... So should we......
If you want a moral leg to stand on, don't go to war...... You can then yell from the soap box that those bombing the place should lift their game and provide sanctuary under the laws of the geneva convention
For sure Sheepy , that's the only reason all those Bangladeshis ....ooops , "Syrians" are in Germany.
Cause it's a lot closer than Greece.
Wait a minute...
If PM Dawg - do you realise the extent of my indulgence typing that ? - builds it , they will come.
No matter how far.
You must have a lot of fruit needs picking just taking in the 50,000,000 Syrians that will come from Nigeria alone.
"Hey Dog, couple of questions -
If the U.S. brings trade sanctions against Australia as retribution for not being their lickspittle, and the Australian economy subsequently shits itself, how will you address this?"
Firstly, we are currently at war, Andy..... Don't forget it..... It is easy to forget, with our government not speaking about "operational matters".
So before I'd get to "numbers" with the Australian people, I'd put it right in the front of their minds that WE ARE AT WAR, and are currently bombing the middle east. A very large portion of the Australian population seem oblivious...
Now, there was a major lie by Abbott.... 50000 he said arrived in one year.... Thats absolute bullshit..... The largest year was a bit over 17000, which coincided with 3 horrific theatres - the iraq insurgency, the cleansing at the end of the Sri lankan civil war, and the start of Syria.... So of course the number of refugees in 2012 and 2013 were always goind to be big... And of course now the numbers are smaller, with Sri lanka settling down.
Back to our participation in Syria. What do you think is a fair number of syrians, considering we're bombing the place, Andy? There are currently 5 million syrian refugees outside of Syria... 4.5 million of them are in Turkey, and turkey is boiling over.... No one is helping turkey with the bill.... They have been crying for more financial assistance... So I'd look at a 2 pronged solution. 2.5 mill to remain in Turkey, with financial help, an agreement struck between all participating in the war. 2 million refugees then need NOT a permanent home, but asylum until Syria is sorted... (most refugees want to go home when there is peace you know).
The whole of Europe is involved in the war basically.... Russia, USA, Australia, Canada, even freakn venezuala... Middle eastern countries.... So lets say 20 countries.... Do the math.. 2 million, 20 countries... Countries with larger participation in the war take a larger amount etc etc ......
So I'd say take 75000 asylum seekers over 3 years..... Granted temporary residency... 25000 a year , Andy.... For 3 years...... At the same time, pull out of the war..... And I'd ask these refugees that are in a position to help with fruit picking etc...
Onto the "USA trade"..........
There wont be trade sanctions from the USA...... I just got trumpy out of a jam..... And when announcing the pull out from the middle east, I'd go "full backhanded compliment" to the great man child....... "I was listening to Donald about fighting other peoples wars and then getting nothing in return, and you know what, Donald is right, he's sooooo right... So when opec recently decided to cut production, therefore increasing costs for Australian primary producers, I thought hey here we are putting our lives on the line, and the middle east just shafted our farmers, our truckies, Trumps farmers and truckies too..... So, we're out....
Trump just got trumped lol
"You must have a lot of fruit needs picking just taking in the 50,000,000 Syrians that will come from Nigeria alone."
that reads like a 7 beer 4 cone comment
So you were on the barricades were you sheepy? Disrupted Parliament on the issue maybe? You want to make smart arse comments speculating about what others didn't do, of which you know nothing, maybe you should tell us what you did. Write a stiff email to your local member was it?
Just remember Dog, we're either with them or against them.
And also if Trump gives you a backhanded compliment, with hands like his you'll hardly notice.
No job in the area and i guess I'm a swinging voter.
Im not sure why I'm interested in the issue, i think it's something that's developed over time the more you research and learn about the topic the more you realise that the truth is rarely talked about or shown.
It's just this horrible very left and very right view both of which is based on emotion and not commonsense or understanding of the issue, the media and government are a big part of this problem.
turnbull is hanging his hat on this deal. whats going to happen if it falls through?
If it doesn't happen, the government should really bite the bullet and say you have three choices return home, be resettled in PNG or be resettled in Cambodia you have to pick one otherwise we will pick it for you.
We have paid millions for these deals it's crazy that it was given as a choice to begin with.
If it breaks international law, so be it, whats going to happen, basically nothing.
The root of the problem of all this is how unrealistic and outdated the Refugee convention is, Turbull should show some balls and get with Trump and both countries should say unless it is updated to fit in with this day and age both Australia and the USA will part from it and cease having a refugee intake.
BB - "So you were on the barricades were you sheepy? Disrupted Parliament on the issue maybe? You want to make smart arse comments speculating about what others didn't do, of which you know nothing, maybe you should tell us what you did. Write a stiff email to your local member was it?"
I told you what I've done...... Open your fucking eyes, mate
And another thing, BB, unlike you, who NEVER commented in the boat people thread, i did..... And I stand by what I wrote back on 12/2/2015
"Last time I checked, the 9/11 bombers flew into the USA... This shows that any 1/2 decent would be terrorist aint gonna risk their lives and spend 2, maybe 3 years on a perilous land and boat journey from the middle east across the Indian ocean via Indo, via a detention centre.... They would simply get false documentation and come through the front door, like the 9/11 bombers..... Governments have to stop appealing to the underbelly of Australian opinion... And stop using imprisoned children as a pawn... A really shameful episode, that will be judged poorly by the sands of time......"
@Indo, thanks ... common sense/truth are usually the first casualties of politics. Like regional processing centres first suggested by Labor when in government but fiercely opposed by the LNP all because it would have worked and therefore remove the wedge.
Just read your 7.47 post Indo ... to say I am shocked that someone would suggest that is an understatement. You are welcome to your view, its certainly not mine nor is it the direction I want Australia to go down. No further correspondence entered into.
@sheepdoog, BB & others ...... there is some irony with this Trump thing .... Australia's biggest leaner, former Australian Treasurer and now our Ambassador to America, Joe Hockey is going to have to earn his taxpayer funded salary for once. And here he was thinking that the Ambassador's job would be a well paying doddle on top of his lifetime parliamentary pension.
indo. i agree that the international processes by which refugees are afforded protection are very outdated. but those processes are created within the UN. and only so when member states of the UN put forth agenda to change them. australia is a member state. so what are we doing to change anything?
although i completely disagree (for various reasons) with people turning up in boats, Sheepdog is right about the fundamentals. if we are partaking in military action overseas then we are partaking in the whole package which includes refugee fallout.