I dunno if a different leader would have had much of an effect.
Let’s imagine if Labor has won with a significant margin, as predicted. There are a number of theories that have already been suggested over the last few months, in anticipation of a Coalition loss - for example, not knifing Turnbull, or (after that happened) electing Julie Bishop to PM instead of Scott Morrison. Three leaders in as many years and the associated disunity was supposed to be a Big Thing with this election, and one of the contributing factors to a Coalition loss.
Turns out it wasn’t.
So, I really don’t know if Labor would have fared any better had Albo or Tanya been PM instead of Bill.
No , I mean a real leader. Not any of those other muppets.
Someone who could engage with the people and illuminate a path forward for the nation.
Someone with the charisma to sell a vision of the future.
Someone who’s head didn’t resemble a light bulb would be a start.
Scare campaigns based on lies and deceit absolutely work.
Everyone should stop toying with themselves about wanting real leadership.
"Labor comprehensively failed to sell their messages - changes to negative gearing and tax franking credits were hardly wholesale changes and weren't an attack on Joe Average yet Labor still couldn't make this message stick.
A Shorten thing?
A wider tactical thing?"
A MEDIA THING????
“Someone who could engage with the people and illuminate a path forward for the nation.
Someone with the charisma to sell a vision of the future.”
Sounds like everyone’s expectations of Turnbull (and no, I’m not being facetious).
What a disappointment he was.
Guy - I can’t speak for other people, but I can speak for myself. Bill Shorten was never getting my vote. He’s as bad as Scomo.
A GOOD labor leader would have made a world of difference.
Just imagine how easily a stronger person would’ve owned the chubby suburban fucktard Scomo.
Agree with Turnbull. Same as Obama.
Never give up hope.
Anyone see Insiders today? Cassidy talking to Jo-Berg?
Actually, he interviewed him. Bit late...kinda like other commenters on here...but there you go.
Cassidy actually kept drilling Jo-Berg about his bullshit use of the term 'tax'. Pensioners tax, housing tax...
Too little, too late. Again.
I never know if you people are aware of stuff or not, but Shorten refused the offer to meet face-to-face with Rupert Murdoch this election. A mistake? Releasing a policy suite years ahead...mistake? Putting your costings out there way earlier than previously done before an election...a mistake? Trying to minutely wind back Howard era wealthfare and thus, zealous neo-liberalism...a mistake? Etc. Etc. Etc.
And the Australian electorate has duly reflected and rewarded the Einstein dictum:
“Three great forces rule the world: stupidity, fear and greed.”
The buyer's regret hangover is going to be brutal. Labor is gonna do what to try and get elected now? What lessons to be learnt from this result? Good lessons??
Good for this country as a fucking whole????
A leader? As in someone with a committed team behind them? High ethical standards? A raft of well developed policies to improve health, welfare and education? Someone who had no interest in personality politics? Someone who refused to engage in slanging matches? Someone who behaved with great dignity in all circumstances? Apparently the public preferred a manufactured personality with no policies, no ethics and the most completely negative campaign ever seen in this country. PT Barnum would have been proud. No-one ever went broke under-estimating public taste.
It was Bills to lose...and lose it he did. The public didn't buy his bullshit. I personally didn't think he was a leader either, boring as batshit, no charisma. He was certainly no Hawkey (RIP). Now he was a leader worthy of respect.
Yeah, Hawkie gifted Murdoch the news regime we've been mired with ever since. A little favour.
Whatever it takes.
''''Except at current rates were on track to 50-75% renewables in Australia by 2030'''''
Indo. You will have trouble finding any chart to support that trend. That said, 2018 was a great year for renewables so im certainly not complaining that progress was made. More importantly though the measure of importance here is co2 emissions. I think youll find it just keeps rising and credible projections through to 2030 show that. Population increase is a big issue here.
When we become a republic, we can go full bore on the presidential thing. Strongman a go go.
Erm, except us becoming our own thing is now even further away.
Newsflash: ProMo is announcing his cabinet. A new portfolio has been created. Minister for everything. One man band.
Hail our Prime Marketer, have-a-go-to-get-a-go PROMO!
Australia! You're standing in it!
Plus highest uptake of household solar per captia in the world.
Energy is the main C20 contributor, natural transition to electric cars will help in the transport area, believe the second biggest area for C20 emissions .
Not all bad news, even if ten years from now we discover the theory of c20 emissions isn't linked to climate change, its still all a good thing.
Basically bullshit when people suggest Liberal government isn't doing anything regarding the issue.
Labor tried to use a scare campaign and play the climate change fear card...most people saw through the BS.
Remember this was suppose to be the climate change election?
Biggest mistake was Shorten not putting any figures or indication to more radical change. (that will do little in the world wide scheme of things)
Ha ha ha! Australian emissions are the highest ever and rising faster than Indo's bullshit level. That's LNP climate policy in action!
I think you overplay the murdoch influence...again...
Yes he's a rabid dog, but he does only preach to a certain converted cohort. same as its ever was...the game of politics
As to negative campaigns, there were some pretty rabid 'lobby groups' going after abbott and others. Equal and opposite one might say.
Got their man but possibly missed the bigger picture.
Barnaby describes it best...as he does...
too much attacking the man maybe?
too much eye off ball
You don't see too many people as genuinely disgusting as Barnaby Joyce.
''''if we maintained over the next decade the record rate of both rooftop solar installations and wind and solar farm construction commitments that have prevailed since 2017 then renewable energy would represent 78 per cent of electricity supply across Australia’s west and east coast main grids,” the report says.''''
Yep but that's my point. The measure of time was 12 odd months. Hardly a trend. But granted it's great to see.
Also consider at some point roof installs dont effect the same benefit because you need storage to make use of all the excess solar you made during the day. 50% renewables 'production' is not the same as 50% renewable 'energy' when coal is still running and the grid shedding. Make enough solar during the day and without batteries the grid will need to turn solar off just to remain stable.
Storage a key debate moving forward as well as the grid structure.
Big scalp but. Abbott is totemic of the last ten years of anti-politics. The reason every leader since Rudd - including Turnball - failed to reach consensus was because of the disengenuous retail politics of Abbott. Ironic that he said Hawke was a conciliatory leader as if Tony wouldn't have opposed every single thing Hawke put on the table.
Sorry Syppy, mate, but that isn't the case regarding Murdoch. That's the insidiousness of his reach. The sheer breadth infects all discourse. Conscious or not.
I went through this with Andy an age ago. It's not mere opinion but extensively studied in many countries for many years. It's diminishing slowly due to the internet platforms available to us but his vision still holds mighty sway. Even in the reaction against him. He's a constant.
And he is a cancer.
V.I.s 'common knowledge' proclamations belie this unconscious and insidious power. Constructed and disseminated.
Once aware, we can interrogate rather than regurgitate 'common knowledge' and 'common sense'. These forums are a place to do this. Not through overly didactic opinion, but a teasing out of curiosity, a sly directory nod towards other paths. Pedagogy. People learn and take onboard stuff when they feel they have discovered it themselves rather than being whacked over the head with pabulum. Well, that's my contention, and mission on here. For the most part. Mission may be a strong word.
To paraphrase Godard, behind every image, we must ask who speaks. One handy thing to live by. Especially on here.
I'm rambling. Big night.
Facto , you’re acting like a child.
Lashing out at others because the ALP made themselves unelectable.
As I said , I was a rusted on ALP voter and I should still be a rusted on voter. I certainly don’t want the LNP in power , but the ALP no longer cares to represent me . They’ve made a conscious decision to prioritise people who would like to live in Australia over those that already do.
Don’t blame me , blame them.
And as for your insinuations that people don’t vote the way you want them to due to their personal shortcomings, we’ll mate , maybe it’s time to consider the unthinkable...that it’s you who’s not the sharpest tool in the shed.
Agreed, Labour were once all about the worker and workers rights. Now, they claim to still be that but act in the total opposite direction, that's one of the reasons they lost.
“These forums are a place to do this. Not through overly didactic opinion, but a teasing out of curiosity, a sly directory nod towards other paths. Pedagogy. People learn and take onboard stuff when they feel they have discovered it themselves rather than being whacked over the head with pabulum. Well, that's my contention, and mission on here. For the most part. Mission may be a strong word.“
Easily the most condescending and misguided thing I’ve ever read on Swellnet
And I don’t mean that the approach wouldn’t work in some instances , such as if the disparity between intellects was great . But you’re obviously not the man to do it and if you honestly think you’re smart enough to “ tease someone’s curiosity “ on here you are very mistaken. As a representative of the ALP do you really think that you should be telling , as opposed to listening , at this particular moment? Maybe pay attention to what the electorate wants , rather than trying to ‘ slyly ‘ sway their uneducated minds ( vomit ) to the erroneous path that an unrepresentative class of professional politicians imagines is the way forward.
Anyway , don’t beat yourself up about the loss. It’s shit to see Scomo in power , but everything passes.
Seriously request ...please consider what I say about myself wanting to vote the ALP back into power . I’m not the enemy. I am working class through and through.
Perhaps ask your fellow party members to consider how to resecure the working class vote you previously had a strangle hold over. Stop blaming the voters for their shortcomings when it’s the ALP shortcomings which are lacking. Listen to the people. Less career politicians living in a bubble.
We need each other - the workers and the ALP. Together , United , we will never be defeated.
Disunity leads to Scomo’s shit smeared nappy atop the Iron Throne.
On other matters: I got called a racist today during a discussion about politics when I suggested the immigration rate should be lowered. I also said Australia is a multicultural country which was met with scoffs and derision that I'd apparently not travelled enough to know what "multiculturalism really is". How's that for a line in condescension? This all happened in the park across the road while our kids played together. I could only hold it in for so long, so I gently told her to "get fucked" and walked off.
That last bit wasn't cool so I sent a text apologising and got browbeaten in reply. Not one shred of remorse for calling someone a racist, which hugely pisses me off and is going to make things uncomfortable as my eldest son is best mates with hers and I coach their soccer team - i.e I see her all the time.
Later I was trying to keep my mind off it by swinging a heavy tool at an innocent piece of wood when a scream rang through the neighbourhood. A scream I recognised. Ten seconds later another scream. I went outside to locate the screams when the neighbour - not the one who called me a racist - came running up the driveway holding one of my twins. Apparently they were playing with a piece of wood with nails in it and my bloke stepped on a nail - first scream - then the kid whose house it was came to help and he also put a nail through his foot - second scream. Both of 'em barefoot and bleeding.
Just spent the arvo up at Bulli Emergency holding my son's hand while listening to the breakdown of the election on the box. Li'l bloke got the wound all cleaned up, blood tests done, antibiotics, advice, and we walked out of there, him on my shoulders, without even flashing a Medicare card.
Things like that still blow me away.
But on every other front....fuck, what a day.
thats a bummer Stu.
the facts are really clear, Australia is the most multi-cultural nation on Earth.
If you want to text her back.
One other thing that has always intrigued me.
Chloe Shorten is a babe.
How the hell did old Electricity Bill snare her?
He must have some kind of ticker somewhere?
“ This all happened in the park across the road while our kids played together. I could only hold it in for so long, so I gently told her to "get fucked" and walked off.”
Brave man talking politics in the park. Glad you gave it to her. Accusations of racism aren’t far off kiddie - fiddler level wrongdoings amongst those so inclined to throw it around. It’s revealing just how brainwashed people have been when they throw it around so casually.
Treading on nails is shitful. Worse if it’s some one else treading on a nail you’ve left in a bit of timber. I reckon you’ll denail everything now . Good practice.
Medicare- Australia’s still got it. The good thing going on , I mean. Rumours of our societal ruination are a bit premature yet.
I thought that very same thought about Chloe Shorten this morning, Freeride.
Whatever he’s got , he keeps it well hidden.
Blowie, the proof's in the pudding mate. Same old horseshit regurgitated on here most days. Even now. Even by you. Via where?
As I said before, post Hawkie valedictions, I never voted for his party during his days in power. Didn't need my vote. Though if I was eligible I would've gone all the way with his party in 83. He wasn't a god by any means.
In my world, the Libs go last in the HoR whatever electorate I've lived in, and they never even get a glance in the senate ballot. Call it informed and lived experience. The best and only combo. True class consciousness. A term worth looking up.
Yeah, I'm an outlier in my own country. Politically as well as culturally. I know that. A lot of us are, but never a majority. Here's an analogy. A cultural one. And a Seppo one if we're feeling a bit Trumpy (as if he's any kind of answer to strive for). Seinfeld. I was a fan. Still am. It was an anomaly. Almost a miracle it got made at the time let alone garnered a second season. Too 'out there' for American network television. And their perceived public. BUT look what eventually happened.
Another one. The Seppo music I listened to in the 80s. Deemed unlistenable and unbroadcastable to commercial ears. Until the end of the decade and Nirvana.
Good and strange and seemingly unpalatable things can get a look-in and happen if people are given the opportunity to experience them. The opportunity part is the crux.
That's my belief. It's why I give a shit.
spykan mentioned Joyce above and his interview last night.
Said it all that interview. Very illuminating. The man who fucked over his family, his staffer and his water portfolio on TV gloating about how Labor got it so wrong and how they could have been in government.
So for Barnyard, like so many of his LNP colleagues, it's all about gaining power at all costs and nothing to do with what's good for the country.
Has there ever been a lesser principled man in federal politics?
As a foot note we got to hear late last week who benefited from Barnyard's $80 million water buy back. The person in question is an old mate of Angus Taylor no less.
Would anyone be surprised if he got the Nats head honcho gig again? Yes, things are that fucked.
"Has there ever been a lesser principled man in federal politics?"
Richo. Whatever it takes. Part of the Hawke team.
A horrible little prick. In real life too.
But the Beetrooter beats him by a florid flurry.
Fake equivalence is a fucker.
stu. I think you got it right (before the apology) "racism" is a vile accusation, I am sure unwarranted in your case and I think you would find it particularly offensive. it demands a response, I. think "fuck you " or your sotto voce "get fucked" are completely appropriate. I wouldn't have apologised but its pretty reasonable of you to have tried to. for her to further dump on you is crap. she is a miserable ****. I would tell others your side of the story and treat her as politely/distantly as you can
Yep. Sage advice from the Lizard.
Nah, only joking.
I reckon a safer bet would be to take anything the Lizard says about most everything and do the polar opposite.
As an aside, did you rate Ayres as Adelaide's coach back in the day?
The fact that even in Shurltes home state Victoria, Labor couldn't perform, shows that something was NOT right. That people voted for instability over instant bill?
Hats off to Warringah tho.
Bob Brown and his merry anti adani touring hipsters didn't help things in Qld for Labor. If there's one thing cane toads hate, it's southerners driving into town telling them they're backward. TBH no one likes that. Imagine a bunch of Qlders driving into Sydney demanding you bring back live music lol.
Then there was "taking salt out of vegemite".... Fucking hell..... You can take pickles off the burgers... But you communists start fucking with vegemite, shit's gonna get real.
FFS all they had to do was remind Australia of the bullshit. Instead Labor created their own. And to make climate change the go to subject on the last week??
PENALTY RATES PENALTY RATES PENALTY RATES!!!!
A VOTE FOR SCOTT is a VOTE FOR BARNABY!!!
PAY BACK THE MONEY CLIVE!!
Now excuse me while I indulge in some late night vegemite on toast..... With butter...
You can afford butter?!
Damn silver spooner Sheepie.
It's dripping in our house.
OK Bills gone and it will take days to work out all the ways their campaign went wrong.
I'm brought to a quote by Steve Bannon, where he quipped in an interview he could steal all the working class votes of the US Democrats and keep them for a generation (paraphrased).
I reckon the same thing might have happened here, given QLD, Tas, WA. I know dedicated ALP boomers in the family who have worked hard, now have multiple properties and just voted Lib for the first time in their adult lives. Come from very strong ALP families of long ago. In fact whole families voted Lib, including the boomers parents who are old school working class men. It was the negative gearing and the dividend imputation for these guys, maybe the family trust stuff as well, so totally economic.
So in QLD we saw the ALP vote plummet in certain electorates, and the ON and Palmer parties rise. These preferenced the Lib, and Lib took the seat. Added to the economic sensibility of wanting a job and some security, the 'touring hipsters' and inner city attitudes bought to the area really put noses out of joint?
So ALP has gone after immigrant vote and as they draw many of their career politicians from the uni scene they go the diverstiy LGBTI... intersectionality climate change path, and neglect what was their core of the old working class. It's even got to the CMFEU ads showing everyday people stating how hard it is to make ends meet, with no discussion apparently about the influence of turbo immigration on working class wage rates (hint: it suppresses them). So... working class can and will be poached.
Lib side seemed to be 'cult of Scomo'. It's super effective.
tbh not happy to see the result as it will be a continuation of the Big Australia crush loading of the country and attack on its environment and this would happen no matter which of Lib or Lab got preferenced into power; but at least it won't feature the great changes the ALP presented - and the migrant parents visa thingy to hit Medicare over the head. First time I ever voted for a non major Lib/Lab/Grn.
I wouldn't have apologised, I'd have copped the slur and seen them next week and saw what happens. We roll on with our scars and develop wisdom through suffering it seems, and yes you lose people and you gain them into your life and your family's life. Anyway, small minded lady.
Just seen new little family members running around & my heart is filled with joy.
just a minor correction: most of the Stop Adani convoy were old women.
not inner city hipsters.
The reaction from the locals was the same regardless
vj whatever people might think, if they decided their vote on franking credits or negative gearing, they are not working class. These days the working class are those in areas like retail, aged care, child care and hospitality and the under employed.
Are you saying I’m not working class ?
Better late than never i guess, Labors costings on their climate change policy.
vj (and sheepdog) pretty well sum it up.
Who would've thought ....people don't like being judged by inner city hipsters... or inner city once hippy now inner city, middle class, grandma hiptsers...
Bit of a pattern?
re. vj's post,
bill shorten fully embraced what he thought to be an old school class stoush. A return to labor class war days, fuck we were even sold that shit on here from one of his main propoganda-ists. He thougt it was 'his time', as the conditions were right for his side...
But he even fucked that up.
Trotting out antique language like 'the top end of town' and other relics he showed, ironicly, just how out of touch he actually is, rather than connecting to many of the working class.
I think most people know people like vj's negative gearers, bit of luck, some hard work. And whilst they may well not be technically working class anymore, they certainly are not 'the top end of town', and they certainly do not want to vote for LNP!
but they did...
I guess the silver lining is Abbotts gone and we wont lose our weekends and utes.
The working class does not now, nor ever has, nor will at any time in the future, include those of pre-retirement age living off their investments.
Funny Get Up wasted all their money getting Abbott out and then an independent gets in.
And then the way things have turned out, its actually a bonus for Scomo to not have Abbott around.
"The working class does not now, nor ever has, nor will at any time in the future, include those of pre-retirement age living off their investments."
Nope. You're right, but he even managed to lose that argument too! smothered in the white noise....
Well I'm not a rusted on Labor voter but I personally thought it was a vote for reason and fairness. Nothing more, nothing less. Felt to me like we had reached a juncture where there was self-reflection about the effects of growing inequality and overconsumption, from kids who will never be able to afford houses, intergenerational environmental issues, the time bomb of the gig economy (no superannuation), to the evergrowing underclass and the inherent social issues that will bring, and I hoped we'd vote to fix those problems.
"Poverty exists not because we cannot feed the poor but because we cannot satisfy the rich."
I felt like there was an awareness that our future depended on material modesty and wealth resdistribution, but if the debriefs are to be believed people instead opted for further draining the tax base through dubious means (negative gearing, discretionary trust funds, corporate loopholes, franking etc etc) in the name of self interest, and all that will come at a social cost. I don't believe for a second that corporate tax cuts will achieve it, in fact they've been proven to accelerate inequality.
The outline of a plan away from the neolib slowdive was there, and I thought it was well argued. I'm dismayed that after all that, and after all that's at stake, people turn it into the equivalent of reality TV popularity contest. A party that had the balls to put all their policies on the table and veer away from the approaching brick wall gets shafted because he - just one person - doesnt have appeal.
Elections: Semi-regular reminders of how out of step I am with the public.
I'm starting to wear it as a badge of honour.