Meanwhile in the US, feel the Bern!
Hello, Bill?! Bill!!!!!! Where are you, Bill???? Penny needs your help......
Meanwhile...where's our PRIME MINISTER?
Eh I reckon he's just waiting it out as he knows this is as good as things get for him. Isn't it two terms as leader for the perks? He's already been on the front bench for a fair while too.
I think the party actually could oust him as those rules aren't as strict for opposition leaders, only PM's but they'll let him hang in there until 6 months out from an election before he leaves for family reasons.
Abbott was a nasty negative piece of work in opposition but he was at least passionate about it. Shorten just comes across as a bitchy aunty because I don't think his hearts in it anymore. He would do better to attempt a bit more bi-partisanship rather than Abbot's wreck-everything style as he's too limp-wristed to pull it off.
So the next election is when??? Mid to late 2019? Well 18 months is a loooooong time in politics.. I stand by everything I have said on Burt Shambles. Australia will never warm to a guy that stabbed not one but 2 sitting Labor prime ministers in the back, therefore giving us Abbott and now Turnbull by default.
If I could click my fingers, I'd transfer Penny Wong to the lower house, and make her opposition leader. I don't think there are any S.A bi elections in safe Labor seats coming up??
Tanya is nice, but not PM material... Albo? Well.... Sort of "too likeable".... Tony Burke? Hmmm maybe, but got some baggage..
Dreyfus is a good performer.. No real mud sticking to him.
But as long as Bing Shosby is there, Mal has more than a chance.
I feel like the guy who has just turned up to be a part of an already well developed collective organisation of like minds, and as part of the spirit of social expression of the group I am encouraged to put forward my two bobs worth in order to help fulfil that goal.
Up until a couple of weeks ago I had never got involved in forums. If was just the way it was, sort of like people who use fb and those who choose to go without.
Anyway, here I am perusing along, click on ol mate sheepys statement regarding the Bill from a few years ago. After reading through the excellent commentary I thought it was a good time for a bump.
And so here we are, a few more circuits around the sun, and Labor still has the Billmeister as their leader! Who’da thought.
What’s bizarre yet unsurprising is that the lieberal party have done a labor, and despite leaking like a sieve, have installed a Moron who still polls higher than Shorty as a preferred PM!
Even though, two party preferred does still indicate that labor are ahead taking into account preferences, I have to wonder how much longer can labor ignore the public dislike for Billy as leader of the labor party?
What also make me wonder is why the labor party even bothered a few years ago publicly (and somewhat proudly in a so called example of democracy) involved their own members in the determination of their next leader? Afterall the skewed terms of the process meant that the ‘final say’ was always going to be at the control of the sitting members, not the party faithful. It just turned out to be some sort of sad self serving publicity stunt.
Any improvement to labor’s chances at the next election have not been attained through Shorty’s actions, but by the pathetic actions of the sitting government.
A few questions come to mind…
To what extent (based on previous elections) will identity politics be the chosen weapon that decides the next federal election? (Cue the Kill Bill ads)
Will the focus become more about equality of representation, especially now as Lieberal party big boys club gets bigger by default? (I think it should)
If so, should Bill just hand the reins over ASAP to either, as a guess, imho, Albo or Dreyfuss, or Plibersek, or Wong? (Open to further suggestions)
.... much water under the bridge since this topic was created, the only constant is Shorten is still standing and still leader of a united Labor Party, a Labor Party with plenty of policies to take to the next election. 3 liberal PMs in 5.5 years, who would have guess that?
Maybe the labor party could adopt a theme song? Just a suggestion
I like Tanya Plibersek
But I think labour are in a bit of a tricky spot with regards to changing leaders now.
The recent drama has given them quite a bit of ammunition regarding backstabbing, disloyalty and instability...changing leaders now I think would stop them from being able to use that stuff effectively come the next election
I hope it doesn't cost them...it would be in the..."losing the unlosable election" territory
Balance, I reckon you're right regarding the idea of leadership change. Not a solid plan this late in the cycle, so my guess is they will go forward with Bill, and keep their fingers crossed.
"...Shorten is still standing and still leader..."
Yep, that's true, but, is it an assett or a curse?
Is it because they're too shit scared to dump him because of the perceived advantage balance talks of?
Yes, most definitely.
Initially it was because they were too shit scared of showing the public their own ongoing instability. But now, its clearly an advantageous angle over a self imploding liberal party. Is it enough? Normally yes, but with bill...nah...
Bill shorton charisma, is short on everything, credibility, public appeal, verbal come backs, general argument presentation, but most importantly, an agenda and personality. A position, a political personality. He doesn't appear to stand for much at all. No vision. Just ambition. He reminds me of hilary fucking clinton!
That's a bit harsh. I went too far, but it's true. While bill might be a great negotiator, a pragmatist, a good union middle man to mediate between warring interests. No one knows what makes him tick, what vision he really has, what does he believe in?
He appears a good pragmitist. But not a good PM.
"Any improvement to labor’s chances at the next election have not been attained through Shorty’s actions, but by the pathetic actions of the sitting government."
Yep, and don't we all know it. And we can't just pick on bill for this, because if Labor win, it's because of the woeful government we've had, not anything particularly good from Labor. To be fair, they've come up with a couple of new politicies in the last six years, pretty good ones. But when you look at what's happening globally, they've offered nothing of significance or substance.
"should Bill just hand the reins over ASAP to either, as a guess, imho, Albo or Dreyfuss, or Plibersek, or Wong? (Open to further suggestions)"
If he had touch with reality he would.
But it appears even a mild mannered mono-toner like bill has ego ticking away in the background.
"I hope it doesn't cost them...it would be in the..."losing the unlosable election" territory"
What a fuck up it would be if they lose. Be some serious soul searching after that one.
I like Plibersek, but my mate says she's too feminazi - too much patriarchy man hater talk - he might be right.
I'll take anyone but bill!
Personally my choice would be penny wong. Always composed and clear. Slams the opposition in question time without even raising her voice or a sweat. Clearly super smart too.
My mate even likes her too. Interesting Plibersek can be too feminazi but a militant lesbian asian is more appealing. A lesson for politician's and their public record right there.
A lesson in identity politics too!
Not sure oz is ready for a female asian lesbian PM but I am. Can she really do any worse than bill?
BRING ON THE WONG!!
Before blowin slams me, with fair concerns.
There is the china issue with wong...
Nice summary there sypkan. I can picture the catch line.... "There's no time like the Wong time"....I'm sure there's a song there somewhere.
Its not a beauty pageant this political leader thing. Its a united team, stability and good "centre" polices the public want - exactly what Labor has presented under Shorten.
I'm old enough to remember Howard as Treasurer in the Frazer years and early on in opposition during the Hawke/Keating years. Back then Howard had all the charisma on a festering boil. Howard was so unpopular even in his own party that Downer, Nelson and Hewson all got the opposition leader's job before the barrel was scraped .... yet Howard grew in the job and went on to lead the Liberals into power and then 10 years of government (I say all that with clenched teeth).
So Labor have no intention of changing leader before the next election, notwithstanding Shorten's apparent lack of camera appeal. We should all value politicians not for their charisma but for the policies they put forward.
Charisma is a bit of a slippery concept. And while Howard was clearly lacking, he had something.
He also had an agenda, a personality (of sorts), and a pretty clear position. Shorten has none of the above, and is just plain bland.
I plead with Labor, please ditch him now, there's too much at stake this election.
I was willing to give liberals a go, even when abbott was boss. Basically because Labor were in such a sad state of affairs, but liberals have failed on every front, even on the shit you count on them for. They have been abysmal.
This election isnt worrth gambling a sticking point like shorten. Especially because of some new found 'rules' that don't seem to be serving the party well. Swallow the pride now before its too late.
tbh, their policies aren't really that inspiring either
"I was willing to give liberals a go, even when abbott was boss"
You wash your mouth out.
I didn't vote for him.
But I had an open mind...
He was terrible. I had a much more open mind about turnball. He was absolutely useless. Sco-mo. I'm not a hater. But I'm done. On their overall performance more than anything.
Hey west of...how about...Australia went looking for Mr. Right...
Ended up with penny wong
Ha ha, which begs the question, How many Wong's make a right?
What can I say...... This was 2015.
TWO elections later......
Pack your bags and FUCK OFF!!! You have given The coalition another 3 YEARS!!!!!
See my post above Sheepy, in Whats What.
Albo might have got them home.
Labor will be asking "What went wong?"
Completely and consistently unpreferred PM for years.
Its time to go Bill, who we couldn't afford....apparently.
Time f o r a change....
But to who?
Mediocre in defeat
As he was in his quest...
Dullest concession speech ever
Nice work bill
You gotta feel for Bill, losing the unloseable.
Hillary should give him a tinkle.
Sheepy, waiting years for his zinger.
Trouble is, from the get-go, this personality politics shit over policy plays further into the US playbook. ProMo even went further with it this election. He had nothing but himself...oh, and trickle-down. Again.
And guess what? He won. Huzzah!
Strap yourself in. We're going downtown.
Did Australia have an 'Apprentice' local show?
The paralllals zen!
Haha. Gotta laugh. How's some of the stuff on here from daze gone by?
"Charisma is a bit of a slippery concept. And while Howard was clearly lacking, he had something."
Full Murdoch-led backing?
And think about the opposite for a sec.
"I was willing to give liberals a go, even when abbott was boss."
The power of corpo PR right there.
Time to get better, surely?
It wasn't just bill that killed bill
Wake up, Syppy, or stop pissing around. You can't be serious.
Or if you are going to have policies you have to ensure people know what they are going to cost, you cant just be vague and say the cost of not doing something is greater. (the climate change deal which was labors big focus)
I was always confused how Labor were favourites, how can people make a decision when they don't have all the information in front of them? especially as we know the economy is always the number one factor.
There was also Green pandering policies that got little media focus that were ridiculous, like the gender BS one, people are getting sick of this type of BS we dont need it or want it.
End of the day, I'm happy to say Factotum but your view is not one that aligns with the majority of Australians, your on the losing side and im happy to say we will never have a Shorten prime minister and even better Scomo now gets a real go.
PS. Didnt put him first, wasn't my plan but on the day decided not to risk it and put him second on the ballot.
Basically indo it's a terrible outcome, the libs front bench are either gone or retired, i reckon oz is going to see a pretty anaemic next three years, but you're right, the alternative didn't sit with mainstream oz. People voted the way they did because simply under labor most people were going to be no better off. Combine that with the Shorten Effect (ha ha) and there you go.
Labor has to stop trying to be all things to all people, stop pandering to these vocal minorities and focus on what brought them success in the first place- the bloody workers! Also sensible economic management, genuine tax reform without penalising the middle class and looking after the environment.
and ffs, elect a leader that is at least likeable. it's true this US style identity politics is toxic but with the nedia landscape we have now and into the future, it's sadly here to stay.
"Labor has to stop trying to be all things to all people, stop pandering to these vocal minorities and focus on what brought them success in the first place- the bloody workers! Also sensible economic management, genuine tax reform without penalising the middle class and looking after the environment."
I think that sums it up very well.
For me the positive is that now Scomo is elected by the people, not just inherited the job, the slate is wiped clean, there cant be any change of leadership and now he has his term to really prove himself.
Personally im stoked to see him given that opportunity, as far as politicians go i find him likeable and much less toxic and honest than most,(complete opposite of Abbott) someone just needs to tell him to keep his religious views behind closed doors.
Indo , funny how you accept Scomo winning but not his Christian beliefs , ever thought that with 50% of Australians who see them selves as christians , might have rejected Bill and some of his comments on Scomo , it's a miracle he won , is that one for the christians?
I think like myself most people can seperate his religious beliefs with his general high quality values, that make him a good person.
Im atheist but many of my values are similar to Christians, good values are just good values.
Most Australians i think can see this.
Spot on zenman!
On all fronts
Terrible outcome, with the lamest liberal front bench ever, gutted and abandoned by a divided party searching for its soul. The party"s a shambles (was) until the buoyancy of victory hides their incompetence...for a while...
But they won.
Or moreso, labor lost the unlosable election, billary's trump moment, turns out 'it's not his turn'. A clear policy agenda of status quo with a few rotting carrots didn't win over the electorate...ohhh the parallels...they're endless...
The swing shows something much deeper than a lame, still, bill still.
"A clear policy agenda of status quo"
Where have you been the last twenty years?
I know you think Labor should cast the whole neo-lib thing aside, but newsflash: the constituency wants that even less than what Labor offered - which was the biggest change AGAINST the status quo since '96.
Perfect is the enemy of good.
(cue superficial definitions of 'perfect' while the concept sails overhead)
We're full steam ahead on the neo-lib agenda now, for the foreseeable future.
No mainstream party can take anything even mildly redistributive to the electorate after this repudiation.
Any action on climate change or movement towards better environmental outcomes is dead in the water for a generation as well.
The thing is most people don't want change, they want certainty and they especially don't want change foisted upon them. Labor couldn't articulate that. I admit i was wrong when i said Labor was light on policy but FR is right, climate change came a distant third when most people are faced with an uncertain future financially. People want the power to control their own destiny and in that change can only come within.
Anyways, waves today and the sun is out.
Catch you blokes this arvo. Have a good one.
"Any action on climate change or movement towards better environmental outcomes is dead in the water for a generation as well."
Except at current rates were on track to 50-75% renewables in Australia by 2030 and the energy sector is the main cause of C20 emissions, and like it or not, we will transition to electric cars in the next decade.
Really not a huge difference it's just all done without the labor hype and fear.
"I know you think Labor should cast the whole neo-lib thing aside, but newsflash: the constituency wants that even less than what Labor offered - which was the biggest change AGAINST the status quo since '96."
You've lost me Stu - how has this election been anything but a decision to continue with the status quo?
"No mainstream party can take anything even mildly redistributive to the electorate after this repudiation.
Any action on climate change or movement towards better environmental outcomes is dead in the water for a generation as well."
This much is clear.
At the same time, as Zen said, Labor comprehensively failed to sell their messages - changes to negative gearing and tax franking credits were hardly wholesale changes and weren't an attack on Joe Average yet Labor still couldn't make this message stick.
A Shorten thing?
A wider tactical thing?
Labor came to the election with heaps of policies. Meticulously crafted with the precision that only comes with six years of hard work.
And the public didn't buy it
They were selling shit
3 elections offering the same shit
A lot changed it that six years
labor didn't. hardly the radical reform agenda that's been sold to us
lame, bland and not convincing
Even if labor had the better policies, they didn't sell them well, a woeful campaign. So clintonesque
The public didn't buy it because it was going to cost some of them money - negative gearing, franking credits, discretionary trusts etc etc. The old horse called Self Interest.
Bollocks. It was a scare campaign. Those who voted for their franking credits have condemned single parents and the unemployed to another three years of poverty. Those who voted for negative gearing voted to maintain the steady increase in homelessness. Those who voted for coal mining jobs condemned future generations to an even bigger mess than the one they will already inherit. And they all voted for tax avoidance, further disadvantage to public schools and a big increase in the influence of the toxic right.
The public didn't buy it because it was going to cost some of them money - negative gearing, franking credits, discretionary trusts etc etc. The old horse called Self Interest."
I know stunet, and the worst part about it is, all that shit would've only affected a small number of people, but labor even failed to sell that.
TBH I think it's more about out distatste for change.
Ending neo-lib thinking is fashionable but the reality is we're still going full steam down that sinkhole. Even moderate offers like what Labor put on the table are unpalatable.
True Syppo, the number of people those changes would have affected was disproportionate to the response, so either people believed the scare campaign of Labor didn't sell it well or both.
A decent leader could’ve gotten the ALP from unelectable to potentially electable on the policies they had.