Submitted by Shatner'sBassoon on Fri, 11/06/2015 - 19:48
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Happy writes "a non-means tested pension.....
jesus. its going to be violence on the streets when clive palmer rolls into the local centrelink."
Happy, if you asked every person would they be happy for Palmer to get a pension if they too were to get $1000 per week, money they AND Palmer have been PAYING, do you think they'd say "ooooh nooo, we dont want our money back!"" ? They'd be dancing in the streets, not rioting. And if people on the big bucks are putting in 7% , why shouldn't they? It's their taxes going into the pension fund, not yours....
BB.... yeah I was unaware of some of this stuff...... I have to say my opinions have been shaken in regards to the pension because of it.... I'd have to say I was wrong...
If Fraser and Hawke had not fucked it, Every retiree of every demographic would now be getting possibly $1000pw pension, with trillions in the fund..... And with this ageing population, could you imagine today if every one over 65 was getting $1000pw? The economy would be PUMPING... No aged people in poverty... Expendable income on caravan holidays... Enough in their pockets for your carbon tax on power!!!! ;)
So yeah...... The great lie perpetuated by Hockey, Abbott, Cormann, even lleyonjhelm must be put to bed....
If anyone is interested in the history of the pension here in Aus, maybe look at :http://www.aph.gov.au/About_Parliament/Parliamentary_Departments/Parliam...
The info here, is coming from One Nations view - not sure how reliable that is. Maybe the Courier Mail is looking for a bit of stir ...
Oner Nations bit - http://arpq.org.au/wp-content/uploads/2013/12/old_age_pension.pdf
Not sure how "reliable" the APG/gov info is either, barbs.... Lots of holes in that.
These people live in a different world to you and I......
wasnt this 500 million contained in something called the Welfare Fund? wasnt the Welfare Fund for everything welfare including unemployment and health? or was it just Pensions?
It seems we just have to believe in One Nations interpretation of the history of the pension here in Aus. That's what the Courier has done. That's what is said above. They are the only party increasing their support level, so they must be right. Some say they are right, let's see how far right they are.
how the courier determines that 500 million back in 1977 is worth several trillion in today's dollars is a little dubious to say the least.
happy, you'd have to also take into consideration the 7.5% tax added on EVERY year from 1977 to now.... Plus investing that money..... Do you know, just the 500 mill, if they had've invested that in Warren Buffets favorite - M& T bank, in 1983, for every thousand, they would've made 3.1 million!! That's not including dividends!!!!!
There's 1.55 TRILLION alone......
sheepdog. the article says nothing about additions every years after and even if it did it would have to take into account that a good portion of the 7.5% would have been spent every year and that welfare spending dramatically increased since late 70's. plus the 7.5 was for welfare (not just pensioners) - the article is a hoax in this respect.
also, the welfare (not just pension) bill in 1977 was 8 BILLION dollars. so when we talk of 500 million being transfered and "lost" in consolidated revenue please also factor in that another 7.5 BILLION was found through taxes that very year. so its really disingenious of the article to insinuate that something belonging to pensioners was stolen.
BTW. none of this means that I think all pensioners are doing ok. my partners olds are on the pension. they own their house. grow half their own food. own a single car. and have a camper trailer. every now and then they get away,nothing fancy. no investments, nothing.
on the whole I believe the full age pension should be lifted to something a little more fitting of caring for people in old age.
here is another article on the same topic.
its interesting stuff.
also you can read about the new taxes back then being sold as pensions! but just used to pay for all manner of things (including the war effort legacy).
apparently the Welfare Fund was being trashed from the day it started.
all i can say is that I hope I never need to rely on it. not that old yet.
Happy, I cannot get back into that article, because Rupert god bless his soul, has now made the article "premium", and only subscribers can access :/
But going on memory (oh oh lol), the article said said what the fund would be worth today. Up to possibly several trillion... If the article was lacking in fine detail about the 7.5% being added every year from 1977 onwards, then hey...... Fact is, it does have to be taken into account yeah?
Now the link I showed you to M & T bank did not include DIVIDENDS..... I'd be interested to know what that total amount would be from 1983 to now.... And of course M & T would not have been the only choice..... Infosys - $1000 invested in 1993 would now be 1.6 million..... Microsoft -$1000 invested in 1986 would now be $740 000......... Bemis -$1000 in 1982 now a staggering $2000 000!!
So, Happy..... Bottomline.... There was a fund.... A big fund.... A fucking big fund for it's day.... And there has been 7.5% income tax from then till now..... Yeah maybe not "several" trillion now..... Maybe not a grand per week for retirees..... Maybe only $700pw..... But jeez, man..... $700 per week for EVERY retiree would crank the economy....
look, i agree. the pension its not enough money. 700 would at least allow a half decent life. even that isnt exactly fun. fuck if I had to go back to living off 700 hundred a week with two kids i would die. i watch my partners olds scrooge on everything. no dinners out, maybe takaway four times a year. grow their own food. never buy any clothes. heck, they even grow pine trees on their own (relatively big block up in Port Mac) and cut down the trees for firewood - yeah hes pretty old school. and i like that about them although burning softwood is a bit of a laugh, yet all of that and they insist that we dont help them except fixing shit broken around the house.
anyhow. there is one group of the community that needs more help its pensioners. heck. people grow old. its life. there is no choice in the matter is there. its the duty of society to look after old people.
Totally agree Happy.
Watashi wa metabo oyagi desu.
yeah well said, Happy.
Struth! A 'fake news' flow-chart...
Close to a 'fake news' flow. Seems it came from One Nation - http://arpq.org.au/wp-content/uploads/2013/12/old_age_pension.pdf
And Clive's keen on mining again ?
Casino Mike to retire from politics as of next week. Nothing more said - except for the obligatory union bashing in his resignation letter - so is it a clean exit or will the real reason surface in a few days?
And will his replacement continue the public sell off?
I'll take a punt-
Is it to devote more time to the family?
Or is the shit about to hit the fan ?
Looks like family played a big part..
baird's work did not align with someone's larger commercial interests. same as every other NSW premier in the long line that have suddenly resigned.
"Family illness" played a roll in Casino Mike's decision.....
Well I have a very ill wife...... Wish I could just quit and take care of her, and get my pension in my late 40s like Baird..... Ohhh hang on..... I'm just a deplorable.......
hope your wife gets better and soon.
Ditto sheepdog. A very trying time!
Bye Bye Bairdy!
Nice play on words there BB, surprised I haven't seen it in the MSN.
It's bound to turn up somewhere zen, it's pretty obvious.
Thankyou chook and BB...... Auto immune disease affecting her eyes...... She's now on that ghastly drug called methotrexate.... Can't be cured... Just hoping to control....
That's fucked Sheepy.
whats the disease called SD? if you dont mind my asking.
Sorry to hear that sheepdog. Best of luck to you and your wife mate. That drug can work miracles but gees you gotta keep a close eye out for neutropenia, among other things of course. I'm sure you're across it all anyway but best wishes to ya.
There is another drug that doctors are using for these type of illnesses Sheepy. It's called mycophenelate. It's main use is to prevent rejection in organ transplant patients but has been increasingly used in autoimmune disorders.
Often it is used when methotrexate stops working. It is a lot more expensive but was put on the PBS a few years ago. It has less side effects then methotrexate but still has risks. You should get your wife to discuss this drug with her doctor? Here's a little info on the drug, I'm sure you can do more reasearch?https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mycophenolic_acid
Condolences to all affected by the nutter in Melbourne.
Meanwhile, back at wildlife slaughter central...
Awesome! Russ Hinze would be rubbing his hands together with glee.
So the developer chipped in 60k to the Mayor. I wonder how much more was passed under the table?
Also brings us back around to the question, what is a sustainable population.
Good question. Maybe the most important question we face at present. Can the planet support 9 billion or more? I doubt it with our current systems.
I don't think 7 billion is sustainable long term with western lifestyles being what they are.
Without radical and draconian changes to the first world status quo, I think we will face challenges in the mid term future that will not be mediated by technology that we have relied on for solutions over recent times.
Very true, black duck.... But in the meantime, the last, the VERY last wildlife corridor between Brisbane and the Gold coast is to be bulldozed.... Screw the koalas, screw the future traffic snarls and cesspit urban sprawl.... Money...... That's the go.....
By 2050, both Sydney and Melbourne are projected to have almost 8 million people each.
And south east Queensland will have about 5 million people between Noosa and Coolangatta.
Rally round the flag, boys...yeeeeeeew!
And before I toddle off home, check this comment in regards to tomorrow's holiday :
"Two issues come to the fore in considering a date change for Australia Day: What is the significance of 26th January, and is there a workable alternative?
Historically there is little significance in 26th January. It wasn't when Europeans first arrived (First fleet: 18-20th January, 1788), it wasn't the date a colony was proclaimed (7th February, 1788), and it wasn't the date we were proclaimed a nation (1st January, 1901).
The significance of 26th January is that it was simply the day that the first European settlers moved 10 km up the coast from Botany Bay to Port Jackson (and a lot of the poor buggers couldn't even get off the ship that day).
Australia Day if it's anything should mark a day that unified our nation. The Commonwealth of Australia became a nation on 1st January, 1901. It's original Constitution, however, specifically excluded Aboriginal people from being counted as Australians. This was not changed until the referendum on 27th May, 1967. We should mark 27th May as the true Australia Day, the day when all Australians, including the original ones, were finally counted as Australians."
May needs an Australia-wide public holiday. I'd plump for May 1st as well, but that's just me. Two in a month! Up the worker!
...and it'll do until we become a Republic, and we bugger off that flag (official since 1953/54!) too...unless Scotland renders it useless first!
I think changing the date is completely pointless, it wont change anything, it doesn't change history and it doesn't change the reasons why we celebrate Australia day.
why do we celebrate australia day?