What's what?

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Shatner'sBassoon started the topic in Friday, 6 Nov 2015 at 7:48pm

AN ALL-ENCOMPASSING KALEIDOSCOPIC JOIN-THE-DOTS/ADULT COLOURING BOOK EXPERIMENTAL PROJECT IN NARCISSISTIC/ONANISTIC BIG PICTURE PARASITIC FORUM BLEEDING.

LIKE POLITICAL LIFE, PARTICIPATION IS WELCOME, ENCOURAGED EVEN, BUT NOT NECESSARY.

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happyasS commented Thursday, 28 Feb 2019 at 5:59pm

Pretty dissapointing to hear a former PM of Australia voice his support for Pell. Maybe he's just old and senile now, the alternate is that he's always been so inclined to blindly devote himself and ignore what's been staring the country in the face for decades.

simba's picture
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simba commented Thursday, 28 Feb 2019 at 6:07pm

yeah cant believe howard, he more or less said he didnt believe the victims.....rather believe a ped, what a cockhead....

simba

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GuySmiley commented Thursday, 28 Feb 2019 at 6:16pm


sypkan's picture
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sypkan commented Thursday, 28 Feb 2019 at 6:45pm

I honestly cannot see where I said anything at all about doing nothing about climate change "in plain english" and then walked it back.

I was talking about pell and co. trying to influence the conversation. Suggesting they were out of line even.

But you go ahead and interpret whatever want from that...

simba's picture
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simba commented Thursday, 28 Feb 2019 at 6:44pm

So you can see what a struggle it must be for the victims when you have the so called guardians of Australian politics taking sides with the peds/church....sleep with dogs wake with fleas........i hope there is a hell.

simba

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sypkan commented Thursday, 28 Feb 2019 at 6:58pm

on a related side note, I think it's most interesting that no. 3 in the catholic church goes in direct opposition to the narrative of the pope on climate change. Really really interesting! one would think that's a position somewhat forbidden considering the expectations for the faithful to fall in line on every other issue.

Apparently there's a rift between the pedo branch and the pope branch of the catholic church. A rift that may well fall in line with other ideological positions within the church it would seem.

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GuySmiley commented Thursday, 28 Feb 2019 at 7:28pm

Your spot on sypkan illustrating how conservative Pell is and that speaks volumes on the position taken by his political supporters

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GuySmiley commented Thursday, 28 Feb 2019 at 7:55pm

You’re spot on sypkan illustrating how conservative Pell is and that speaks volumes on the ideological positions taken by his political supporters

blindboy's picture
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blindboy commented Thursday, 28 Feb 2019 at 8:08pm

Play word games if you want sypkan but this what you said.

“portraying capitalism versus socialism, and commensuretly, environmental action versus no action, as good versus evil is a step too far, way way too far.”

The only plain English interpretatation of this is that it is wrong to portray no action on climate change as evil. It may be that this is not what you meant but it is exactly what you said. Personally though, I think that it is what you meant. It is a classic example of a manipulative text. It presents an unreasonable position (that not acting on climate change is morally acceptable) in a way that makes it sound as if it is those doing the right thing (proposing or taking action) who are wrong for making false allegations. Totalitarians around the world have used similar tactics for generations.

“You've got to stop seeing the world as us and them blindboy. Just because someone likes to question groupthink and tribalism doesn't mean they're not on board.
It might just mean they're concerned about the nature of the debate. In terms of it being isolating and hypocritical rather than it being mustering and leading in it's nature.”

If you genuinely believe that you need to think much more deeply about what you say because, sorry to be the one to tell you, but there has been no scientific debate about climate change for a long time now, just vested interests and those foolish enough to believe their propaganda, undermining attempts to get governments to actually FUCKING DO SOMETHING!

Laurie McGinness

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sypkan commented Thursday, 28 Feb 2019 at 8:22pm

But tell me guysmiley is it more about god or coal (business)?

For abbott? Howard? Pell? Scomo? Bolt?

It changes, and it's both, but they seem to have different key motivations.

sypkan's picture
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sypkan commented Thursday, 28 Feb 2019 at 8:24pm

Geez you're making plain english real complicated there blindboy.

So far of the mark I don't think there's any point explaining it to you.

blindboy's picture
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blindboy commented Thursday, 28 Feb 2019 at 8:36pm

No mate probably not, particularly because you can't. It's so fucking typical, throw toxic shit out there with a veneer of respectability and then pretend that it was all some kind of misunderstanding. Not for a second mate, you knew exactly what you were doing. And if my analysis is too fucking complicated for you to follow maybe you should stick to talking about simple shit.

Laurie McGinness

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stunet commented Thursday, 28 Feb 2019 at 8:42pm

A lot of what gets typed up and thrown out here are thought bubbles, concepts tried on for size and maybe thrown back on the rack if they don't stack up, so I really don't think clinging to lone sentences serves anyone well.

indo-dreaming's picture
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indo-dreaming commented Thursday, 28 Feb 2019 at 8:49pm

100% true Stunet

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blindboy commented Thursday, 28 Feb 2019 at 9:02pm

...... and I always believed thought bubbles were there to be popped. Bubble away people!

Laurie McGinness

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sypkan commented Thursday, 28 Feb 2019 at 9:33pm

It seems blindboy you have me pegged as some alt. right climate denying internet terrorist. I'm sorry to say but your view is more paranoid and conspirarional than that of the true alt. right internet terrorist.

"“portraying capitalism versus socialism, and commensuretly, environmental action versus no action, as good versus evil is a step too far, way way too far.”

The only plain English interpretatation of this is that it is wrong to portray no action on climate change as evil. It may be that this is not what you meant but it is exactly what you said. Personally though, I think that it is what you meant. It is a classic example of a manipulative text. It presents an unreasonable position (that not acting on climate change is morally acceptable) in a way that makes it sound as if it is those doing the right thing (proposing or taking action) who are wrong for making false allegations. Totalitarians around the world have used similar tactics for generations."

Nah.

I was saying that for pell to portray...

... capitalism versus socialism, and commensuretly, environmental action versus no action, as good versus evil is a step too far, way way too far.”

The rest is your paranoid delusions.

“You've got to stop seeing the world as us and them blindboy. Just because someone likes to question groupthink and tribalism doesn't mean they're not on board.
It might just mean they're concerned about the nature of the debate. In terms of it being isolating and hypocritical rather than it being mustering and leading in it's nature.”

If you genuinely believe that you need to think much more deeply about what you say because, sorry to be the one to tell you, but there has been no scientific debate about climate change for a long time now, just vested interests and those foolish enough to believe their propaganda, undermining attempts to get governments to actually FUCKING DO SOMETHING!

Mate, there's been heaps of scientific debate, and the models and projections have gone all over the place. Saying that doesn't make me a denier, it just means J want scientists to be accjountable. They've done themselves no favours in this regard.

I'd like governments to actually do something too, but both sides have failed miserably for 20 years for various reasons. Will is waning...possibly waned.

Ironically, or ideally, individual participation is through the roof, with take up of solar and renewables, yet you bemoan individual responsibility.

Just different perspectives blindboy. It doesn't mean I'm the enemy.

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indo-dreaming commented Thursday, 28 Feb 2019 at 10:22pm

"I'd like governments to actually do something too, but both sides have failed miserably for 20 years for various reasons. Will is waning...possibly waned."

I don't agree...Blindboy likes to paint a picture of despair, but change is happening and governments both Liberal and Labor have helped.

Just look at how many people have roof top solar now and water tanks and if you build a house you need to get very high energy ratings, government both liberal and Labor have helped with incentives and rebates for these things,

Then look at the wind farms popping up...its happening but it has to be a gradual change and we are not going to close down coal powered power plants that still have a life span.

Its all about balance and the market will decide the future and it already is.

Even Labors pink batts scheme was a good idea, it's just a pity the industry wasn't regulated.

There is areas that government cant change and people must change though, like just our consumerism, need for high energy...like how many of you are sitting in A/C reading this?

(its sticking hot, but no AC for me)

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GuySmiley commented Friday, 1 Mar 2019 at 11:01am

That's a big question sypkan and most likely beyond my thinking, but in the best SN tradition I'll give it a crack!

The common ground for Pell and his conservative political supporters is likely to boil down to a shared broad conservative view of the world and its tradition institutions mostly certainly coupled with a deep suspicion/opposition to anything seen as progressive and/or erosion of the existing power held by {EDIT} church and/or: state; monarchy; capital. The battle of institutionalised theology and conservative political power over secularism and progressive political and social reform. The nature of political debate in Australia for the last 2 decades on any number of important political issues reveals how this "battle of ideas" has played out.

Alternatively, it maybe be informative to consider the actions of these people and not the institutions they represent. Pell, a senior spiritual leader of the catholic church, has acted more like a seasoned politician across a range of political debates and latterly lying criminal while Abbott, the political pugilist, has let his faith clearly override his electoral responsibilities on the very same issues. Look at Pell you see Abbott, look at Abbott you see Pell.

{EDIT} There is absolutely no doubt Pell's conviction and jail for pedophilia is a massive blow to the conservative forces in Australia and most likely elsewhere. For one it seriously erodes the narrative of this form of conservatism. It also tells powerful conservatives they are not beyond the law they may have otherwise thought they were immune to and it tells the general public to stand up for what is wrong.

Only my opinion coloured by my political bias.

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Sheepdog commented Thursday, 28 Feb 2019 at 10:29pm

I think it was on the drum where I saw that they were both inspired by B.A Santamaria

Sheepdog

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GuySmiley commented Thursday, 28 Feb 2019 at 10:35pm

Yes, that's right Sheepdog. Abbott openly acknowledges Santamaria's role in shaping his early political life.

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sypkan commented Friday, 1 Mar 2019 at 7:48am

""I'd like governments to actually do something too, but both sides have failed miserably for 20 years for various reasons. Will is waning...possibly waned."

I don't agree...Blindboy likes to paint a picture of despair, but change is happening and governments both Liberal and Labor have helped.

Just look at how many people have roof top solar now and water tanks and if you build a house you need to get very high energy ratings, government both liberal and Labor have helped with incentives and rebates for these things,

Then look at the wind farms popping up...its happening but it has to be a gradual change and we are not going to close down coal powered power plants that still have a life span.

Its all about balance and the market will decide the future and it already is.

Even Labors pink batts scheme was a good idea, it's just a pity the industry wasn't regulated.

There is areas that government cant change and people must change though, like just our consumerism, need for high energy...like how many of you are sitting in A/C reading this?

(its sticking hot, but no AC for me)"

Yep your right indod, and it's kind of what I was saying. The public are on board, and governments have had to react. Be it begrudgingly or wholeheatedly they are reacting to demand.

Even scomo's (turdball's) snowy 2.0 is a reaction to the public's willlingness to accept renewables. They need to harness all that potential now, be silly not to, begrudgingly, belatedly.

Blindboy is all doom and gloom because his davos mates have let him down. He wants the big world government solution. I thought it was the way too for a while, but big world government is so yesterday.

Need to engage individuals, whilst we should be able to rely on governments to address such issues they've proved themselves incapable.

Fukn hot here too. No air con too, air con is there, sitting dormant, by choice! (and apparently we're the RWNJs)

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blindboy commented Friday, 1 Mar 2019 at 7:39am

Ah twisting the night away with sypkan

"Mate, there's been heaps of scientific debate, and the models and projections have gone all over the place. Saying that doesn't make me a denier, "

Yes it does. Any current debate is around how much and how soon. Same old, same old denier shit. Squirming around the issue.

"Blindboy is all doom and gloom because his davos mates have let him down. He wants the big world government solution. "

More shit, putting words in my mouth. I have never said anything like that.

Laurie McGinness

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sypkan commented Friday, 1 Mar 2019 at 9:28am

"Yes it does. Any current debate is around how much and how soon. Same old, same old denier shit. Squirming around the issue."

So please tell me why I sat in the heat last night rather than flicking the switch on the air con? Air con that would've used way less power than the solar panels on the roof would've created during the day, but that's the choice I made anyway.

Am I a denier?

A denier of my own comfort maybe.

""Blindboy is all doom and gloom because his davos mates have let him down. He wants the big world government solution. "

More shit, putting words in my mouth. I have never said anything like that."

Well, you're not shy about putting words in people's mouths, just look up the page a bit. Besides, one has to make assumptions about you guys because youse give nothing away. You and facto especially, and others, all you do is bag shit out of everyone and everything whilst never giving a firm position on anything. FFS you guys won't even acknowledge if your a liberal or socialist. Or social marxists or third way stooge. So one has to make assumptions on the actual positions you're coming from. Once again, you guys are never shy about making assumptions about people’s motivations. With the gravest most damning character assessments coming out. Then you get all uppity and offended when someone throws it back on you. It's pathetic.

You guys either have no ability at objectivity at all, or your willing to campaign so hard you don't care if you look ridiculous. If you're so passionate about climate change where's your criticism of labor and adani? It's a fucking disgrace the both ways position they're trying to have it on this issue, but where are you? Silent in the shadows...again. My friend went to protest the labor convention, she feels so passionate about it, good for her. What's your position blindboy? Nothing, silence, so I'll make assumptions, again.

Fukn labor stooges.

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Flashinthepan commented Friday, 1 Mar 2019 at 10:04am

Here’s a feel good story for the day (if the link works - the formats and compose tips link is firing blanks):

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-03-01/compulsory-voting-federal-electio...

Oi, oi, oi. It’s almost enough to impel me to get a southern cross tattoo and an
“If you don’t love it, leave it” sticker for the car – but not quite.
Australia is a bit stuck in second gear though, thanks to Howard-Costello and Sir Prince Tory Tony.

As per my moniker, I’ll only be on these forums for a short while. While I actually hate surf forecasts, this site is the best for them – cue cognitive dissonance.

Most of the contributors here are great, but many internet forum comments are dominated by angry outraged pessimists. If you're not one of them, there is a life to be lived. Apart from checking the dreaded forecasts, I’ll soon disappear back to my life of family, surfing and work, with increased confirmation bias regarding what those austere protestants (I’m not one of them) said about idle minds.

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factotum commented Friday, 1 Mar 2019 at 10:40am

Stunet:

"A lot of what gets typed up and thrown out here are thought bubbles, concepts tried on for size and maybe thrown back on the rack if they don't stack up..."

A comment from 2016 on page 28 of this thread:

"...check out how people use the threads on here. They run the full gamut. Some rant, some rave, some abuse, inform, reflect, entertain, lie, question, seek knowledge, seek to give knowledge, make connections, seek to make connections. And all done hastily, or not."

Actually, there's some interesting stuff back there. Worth a revisit.

https://www.swellnet.com/comment/518256

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GuySmiley commented Friday, 1 Mar 2019 at 11:10am

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factotum commented Friday, 1 Mar 2019 at 11:19am

From 22nd Feb, this thread:

"Instead of your usual on-the-run stuff maybe more haste and less speed is in order? Unless you want to treat the threads only as a mind-mapping scribble pad as others do.

Up to you of course. Most of us are time poor. Especially those of us in gainful employment.

Not really my cup of tea or m.o. on here. In the main. Hard yards have been done, or are being done, elsewhere."

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factotum commented Friday, 1 Mar 2019 at 11:18am

Guy Smiley, when Tones ends up head of the new Conservative party (after the historic split of the Libs - fissure opened up, so to speak, by George Pell of all people - that sends them into the wilderness for a generation), our man Abbott will appoint his good buddy Cate McGregor to that role, or something similar. Obviously they'll have to work on a new portfolio name. Minister for Women is too, you know, girly?

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loungelizard commented Friday, 1 Mar 2019 at 12:18pm

surprised at howard's lack of judgement not abbott who i think is terminal on this one, but seems a long bow to ascribe personal failings to a (conservative) cause. the alp has a uniquely proud history of kiddy-fiddlers , d'arcy, wright, the ork, bob collins, bernie finnigan... an endemic/ structural problem? keen to hear from the usual party barackers!

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I focus commented Friday, 1 Mar 2019 at 1:52pm

Howard was / is a dog, his judgement waned when the 3 close advisers jumped ship before and during the election Howard was thrown out.

In other words Howard is far from an intellect he needed some one else to give him direction.

Howard was however aggressively ambitious even as treasurer under Fraser he helped make Hawk / Keating look like geniuses when they rolled out the reforms that Howard failed to do so.

On a positive Howard wasn't one for being shy he would always turn up for an interview and passing guns laws against the wishes of his own constituency but for the better good.

Personally I will never forgive him for "No Work choices" and his attacks on the union movement.

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sypkan commented Friday, 1 Mar 2019 at 2:18pm

o factobum, the only guy with the audacious audacity and over inflated self worth to quote himself more than he quotes anyone else. That's besides that other uppity fellow of course - though I'm sure even he did it to take the piss out of himself as much as anyone else.

Mate that's great that your gainfully employed and stuff, getting paid to push your dogma, I mean agenda - sweet gig - good for you, honestly.

But if you're gonna come on here with your ridiculous one eyedness, you've gotta be prepared to answer criticisms.

You're right people come here for many reasons, I come here to waste time at work with discussions on surfing and politics What you do is not discussion. What you do is present exactly the same inpenetrable obtuseness that you complain of christians presenting.

Now that's fine if that's your trip, or your brief, or whatever, but it becomes incredibly frustrating and tedious, and one has to question just how productive for your cause you're actually being.

Yeh sure keep your anonimity so you don't blow the gig with labor, or the greens, or new matilda, or whoever you're 'writing' for these days, but occassionally you've got to give something of the self, or you just cannot be taken seriously. Seriously!

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blindboy commented Friday, 1 Mar 2019 at 5:24pm

From The Monthly Today newsletter ...... yep there is still good journalism available.

With the imminent resignations of Defence Industry Minister Steve Ciobo and Defence Minister Christopher Pyne, the Morrison government is now holed below the waterline and listing heavily. Coming hard on the heels of former foreign minister Julie Bishop’s resignation, and the departure of ministers Kelly O’Dwyer, Michael Keenan and Nigel Scullion, the perception that the government is sinking is getting harder to dispel. Ciobo was demoted in the wake of the attempted coup against former prime minister Malcolm Turnbull, in which he supported challenger Peter Dutton, and his resignation would indicate that the federal Liberal Party has not healed the wounds of August.
Ciobo’s departure comes at an inconvenient time – as Australia is poised to finally clinch the long-awaited free-trade agreement with Indonesia, which Ciobo helped negotiate when he was trade minister, taking over from Andrew Robb in early 2016. It is too early to start preparing the political obituaries, nonetheless a succession of free-trade agreements – with China, Korea, Japan, and followed up with the Trans Pacific Partnership – was one of the few policy achievements the government could credibly claim. Ciobo can hardly take all the credit, given his short tenure, but he can claim some. With his departure, the government’s ranks get thinner.
Prime Minister Scott Morrison attempted a daring rewrite of history in February, arguing that the big myth of the 2013 election was that Labor got thrown out because it was divided. No, Morrison argued, Labor lost because they were a terrible government on every score. The PM has a stake in this line of argument, because he wants to distinguish the last six years of the Abbott-Turnbull-Morrison turnstile from the six preceding years of the Rudd-Gillard-Rudd turnstile.
It is easy to see, from Morrison’s point of view, having held the immigration portfolio both in Opposition and in government, how Labor’s track record looked disastrous. But in other policy areas, Labor did a lot: avoiding recession through the financial crisis (even if the Coalition will never give them credit for it); rolling back WorkChoices (which even the Coalition acknowledged had gone too far); setting up an economy-wide carbon price (a level of policy difficulty the Coalition cannot even come at); establishing a visionary, full-fibre NBN; setting up the NDIS and needs-based school funding; delivering a national apology … it goes on. Much of that work, either shunned or unravelled by the Coalition, now lies ruined or distorted beyond recognition.
By contrast, the Coalition’s policy failures on show, just this week, include: Home Affairs Minister Peter Dutton scraping the bottom of the bottom of the barrel, warning that sick asylum seekers transferred here for medical attention will lead to Australians being “kicked off” waiting lists for healthcare and public housing, which the PM defended today as “simple math”; the PM’s gobbledegook in response to a question about why the independent panel process for board nominations established under the Australian Broadcasting Corporation Act was ignored yet again: “So, the Labor Party set up a process, we have followed that process, but where I don’t believe that process actually meets the requirements, then the government of the day has the ability to make the right appointment and that’s what I have done today”; Australia’s greenhouse gas emissions continuing to rise, as the government relaunches the Abbott-era Emissions Reduction Fund to near-universal disdain; and the punitive ParentsNext [$] program, which has seen welfare payments cut off for desperately needy single parents, leaving them and their children with nothing at all. A budget surplus built off inflicting that sort of pain is something to be ashamed of, not campaigned on.
They’ve stopped things and axed things and cut things – even had a legislative bonfire in the parliament – but what has this government come up with for the good of the nation that will endure? Very, very little.

Laurie McGinness

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Blowin commented Friday, 1 Mar 2019 at 5:41pm

“The Free Trade Agreements one of the few policy achievements the government could credibly claim....”

Well there goes your claim for journalism with a claim on integrity, BB.

Anyone who thinks the free trade agreements benefit a single Australian without an offshore tax haven are kidding themselves.

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blindboy commented Friday, 1 Mar 2019 at 5:59pm

Yeh Blowin we know and respect your isolationist position but, as you know, I disagree and so do a large number of other Australians.

Laurie McGinness

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Blowin commented Friday, 1 Mar 2019 at 8:55pm

You think it’s isolationist to ensure a living wage by excluding the access of a minimum wage labour market such as Indonesia ?

You know what happens if we don’t ?........We get paid like Indonesian’s !

A race to the bottom. Indo’s Think they’re killing it on 500.000 rupiah per day( $50/day ) .....but the Aussies have to pay an Australian mortgage at these rates ie ...they’re fucked.

BB - You don’t even know who your globalist for anymore. It certainly ain’t the workers.

Or.....

Maybe you do know and the blue collar people are just unfortunate collateral damage in the race for pure rule by the ultimate beneficiaries of neo liberalism.....the owners of the robots.

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blindboy commented Saturday, 2 Mar 2019 at 1:36pm

Blowin, Morrison and company would love your argument. The real cause of low wages are the structural factors explained below ....... and yeh yeh it's The Guardian, but the data is real and until you nominate a source you are prepared to accept then I would be wasting my time to seek other sources for you to pooh pooh!

“ Last year the sense that workers were losing out while companies profited reached a peak when company profits grew by 22% – the second fastest annual growth in the past 30 years, while total wages and salaries grew by just 1.4% – the slowest growth outside of a recession or the GFC. “

“ In March last year, nominal GDP grew by 6.8%, off the back of soaring profits from the mining sector and booming iron ore and coal prices – the fastest annual growth for four years.
At the same time the annual growth of wages and salaries dropped to 1.7% in trend terms – the worst growth ever recorded outside of six months during the GFC and nine months during the 1991 recession. ”

“The workers at Australian Paper are being offered a wage rise over the next four years that would average just 1.6% per annum – at a time when the government is predicting the average prices of goods and services will rise 2.5%.
It is also an issue that public sector workers are dealing with. Earlier this month the Australian Public Service Commission announced that future EBA’s covering APS staff would be limited to a wage growth of 2% – meaning the government itself has signed off on delivering its own workers a real wage fall.
That hardly sits with the treasurer’s prediction that “consumers will start to see their real wages growing in line with their productivity again”. “

https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2018/mar/01/whatever-happened...

Laurie McGinness

AndyM's picture
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AndyM commented Saturday, 2 Mar 2019 at 5:14pm

As expected, free trade agreements have pros and cons...

https://www.thebalance.com/free-trade-agreement-pros-and-cons-3305845

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sypkan commented Saturday, 2 Mar 2019 at 6:55pm

yellow vests...

"...While the media’s conspicuous blackout of coverage is partly to blame, the deafening silence from across the Atlantic in the United States is really because of the lack of class consciousness on its political left. With the exception of Occupy Wall Street, the American left has been so preoccupied with an endless race to the bottom in the two party ‘culture wars’ it is unable to comprehend an upheaval undivided by the contaminants of identity politics. A political opposition that isn’t fractured on social issues is simply unimaginable. Not to say the masses in France are exempt from the internal contradictions of the working class, but the fetishization of lifestyle politics in the U.S. has truly become its weakness..."

feitishization and unimaginable indeed (still unimaginable to some)

"... The idea of a shadowy world government isn’t exclusively adhered to by anti-establishment conservatives and it is right to suspect there is a worldwide cabal of secretive billionaire power brokers controlling events behind the scenes. There is indeed a ‘new world order’ with zero regard for the sovereignty of nation-states, just as there is a ‘deep state.’ However, it is a ruling class not of paranoiac imagination but real life, and a right-wing billionaire like Robert Mercer is as much a globalist as George Soros.

Ever since capitalism emerged it has always been global. The current economic crisis is its latest cyclical downturn, impoverishing and alienating working people whose increasing hardship is what has led to the trending rejection of the EU. Imperialism has exported capital leading to the destruction of jobs in the home sectors of Western nations while outsourcing them to the third world...

...in response to its unprecedented debt crisis manufactured by the International Monetary Fund (IMF), the Greek people elected the Coalition of the Radical Left, SYRIZA, to a majority of legislative seats to the Hellenic Parliament during its 2015 bailout referendum. Unfortunately, the synthetic alliance turned out to be anything but radical and a Trojan horse of the establishment. SYRIZA was elected on its promise to rescind the terms of Greek membership in the EU, but shortly after taking office it betrayed its constituency and agreed to the troika’s mass privatization. Even its former finance minister Yanis Varousfakis admitted that SYRIZA was a controlled opposition and auxiliary of the Soros Foundation."

dodgy fucking soros, even yanis is in on the soros bashing now!

"...The mysterious Bilderberg gatherings are still held to this day under notorious secrecy and are frequently the subject of wild speculation. One can imagine a topic behind the scenes at this year’s meeting would be how to address the growth of anti-EU ‘populism’ and uprisings like the gilet jaunes. Hitlerite expansionism had been carried out on the Führer’s vision for a European federation in the Third Reich — in many respects, the EU is a rebranded realization of his plans for empire-building. How ironic that liberals are clinging to a multinational political union founded by fascist colluders while the same economic bloc is being opposed by today’s far right after its new Islamophobic facelift."

Ironic alright!

"...While nationalism may have played an instrumental role in Brexit, there is a manufactured hysteria hatched by the establishment which successfully reduced the complex range of reasons for the Leave EU vote to racism and flag-waving. They are now repeating this pattern by overstating the presence of the far right among the yellow vests. Such delirium not only demonizes workers but coercively repositions the left into supporting something it otherwise shouldn’t — the EU and by default its laissez-faire policies — thereby driving the masses further into the arms of the same far right. Echoes of this can be seen in the U.S. with the vapid response to journalist Angela Nagle’s recent article about the immigration crisis on the southern border. The faux-left built a straw man in their attack on Nagle, who dared to acknowledge that the establishment only really wants ‘open borders’ for an endless supply of low-wage labor from regions in the global south destabilized by U.S. militarism and trade liberalization. Aligning itself with the hollow, symbolic gestures of centrists has only deteriorated the standards of the left participating in such vacuousness and dragged down to the level of liberals.

https://www.mintpressnews.com/why-frances-yellow-vest-protests-have-been...?

GuySmiley's picture
GuySmiley's picture
GuySmiley commented Saturday, 2 Mar 2019 at 6:50pm

FTAs

Isn't trade mean't to be free anyway?
If all countries had FTAs what advantage would there be?
Are FTAs just part of the neo-liberal lie of globalisation?

.... but my main beef is the way FTAs sign away a country's sovereignty to make laws affecting commerce e.g. our cigarette packaging laws wouldn't now be possible.

In summary, I'm not buying it.

Blowin's picture
Blowin's picture
Blowin commented Sunday, 3 Mar 2019 at 7:47pm

“For the first time since they shared the St Alipius presbytery at Ballarat in the 1970s, George Pell will be back under the same roof as the worst of the worst. He and Gerald Ridsdale will have so much to catch up on.” - The brilliant David Marr after Pell was taken to prison.

Classic

AndyM's picture
AndyM's picture
AndyM commented Sunday, 3 Mar 2019 at 8:18pm

What do you think Blindboy, as a proponent of FTAs, do the benefits outweigh the drawbacks?
I would have thought that they were obviously part of the neoliberal lie, dressed up as, well, I really don't know what - the benefits only really flow in one direction, and that doesn't seem to be in the direction of Joe Average.
You seriously think the TPP is a good thing??

Blowin's picture
Blowin's picture
Blowin commented Sunday, 3 Mar 2019 at 8:52pm

The reason that lowering EBAs works is because there’s a surplus of labour. You’ve mistaken effect for cause , BB.

When labour is in short supply , businesses compete with one another through wage increases to attract the best employees. When there is excess slack in the labour market then wages offered goes down and workers are still attracted due to competition for work.

So your argument says nothing. It actually proves my point.

And holding the government up as the ideal employer is never a good idea , they’re as bad as anyone.

BB - I’m not sure how you can read the link you provided and not come away with the obvious answer. The expert economist writing the piece fails to comprehend the reality of wage stagnation. He can’t understand why it’s occurring. He says as much ...he’s fluxxomed because unemployment and wages have disconnected from their traditional coupling . He also manages to avoid the elephant in the room of massive labour injections into the economy. Surely this omission raises a red flag in your considerations ? When you inject hundreds of thousands of illegal and undeclared workers into the country on top of promoting skilled migrants to work as baristas , hairdressers , taxi drivers etc etc

Mass immigration REPLACED work choices. That’s all you need to know.

I could tell you a story of how work in the Pilbara mines was flooded with overseas workers due to a confected labour shortage scam and the same jobs are now paying about a third of what they were then and are now casual ! But still the mines are trying to push the wages lower by crying out for more foreign workers using the same labour shortage routine they had such success with last time.

Hey BB - You know when you’ve argued climate change with a denier for so long that you just start to say “ look , if you’re not part of the solution, you’re part of the problem and your indulgence of the vested interests who benefit from the obscuring of the truth is actively working against the truth. “

Well , that’s the stage you’re at now with your denial regarding the effects of mass immigration on wages. You are officially part of the problem with your outright refusal to accept the reality.

PS - Quoting the guardian for a position on “ Big Australia “ is like quoting the IPA for same.

Blowin's picture
Blowin's picture
Blowin commented Sunday, 3 Mar 2019 at 8:46pm

You know FTA’s are above board when the likes of Andrew Robb are pushing them through as stealthily as possible with as little oversight as possible.

Tells you all you need to know about that.

AndyM's picture
AndyM's picture
AndyM commented Sunday, 3 Mar 2019 at 9:26pm

I found this video of BB changing his position on Australia's unprecedented levels of immigration.

blindboy's picture
blindboy's picture
blindboy commented Sunday, 3 Mar 2019 at 9:31pm

Yeh except I don't deny that immigration has an influence on wages, I just want it seen in the context of the numerous other factors which you ignore no, DENY! You are oppressing the workers of Australia by drawing attention away from the factors that are really screwing them by constantly throwing up the furphy of immigration. The big end of town love it when they suck in fools to do their dirty work!

Andy I didn't think you would be old enough to remember Happy Days. What was it? Afternoon repeats after school?

Laurie McGinness

Blowin's picture
Blowin's picture
Blowin commented Sunday, 3 Mar 2019 at 9:33pm

I don’t deny that they’re other factors at play, but as stated in the link you posted , none of them accounts for the scale of wage stagnation.

You’ve got to remember BB , I’ve actually experienced it happening live and in real time , not as some remotely interesting theoretical situation. That’s why I’m so positive about the causation and how I KNOW you’re wrong.

AndyM's picture
AndyM's picture
AndyM commented Sunday, 3 Mar 2019 at 9:48pm

In the late 70s when I wasn't riding my Malvern Star dragster or swapping Kiss cards, I was watching Happy Days BB.
And Sesame Street.

So do you think FTAs are a good thing?

indo-dreaming's picture
indo-dreaming's picture
indo-dreaming commented Monday, 4 Mar 2019 at 8:21am

Speaking of Malvern star bikes.

Bought my 5YO daughter a new bike for her birthday the other day from Kmart, was less than $100. (only about $70 from memory)

Funny thing is in the very early 80s when i was about 6 i also got a new bike from Kmart a BMX the hot new thing and i remember the price $99 because i got the slightly smaller one, i remember my neighbours got the $120 ones that were a little bigger. (i remember looking in the catalogue for weeks before i got it, Kmart was also the big new thing then as was shopping centres)

Almost 40 years on and bikes at Kmart are still the same price or even cheaper, that is some crazy shit right there.

Meanwhile other things in OZ have inflated in price to crazy levels, i remember at school taking about $1:20 and putting it in the brown bag with my order written and id get back a pie, a drink and donut, probably be about $10 for all that now from a corner shop/milk bar

Yes i know al the reasons why...but still pretty crazy.

blindboy's picture
blindboy's picture
blindboy commented Monday, 4 Mar 2019 at 9:48am

We’ve become so used our econocrats’ neo-classical way of thinking that we don’t see its weaknesses.

It’s saying that, if the problem is weak demand, the cause must be weak supply, and the solution must be faster productivity improvement, which can be brought about only by “more micro reform”.

This ignores the alternative, more Keynesian way of analysing the problem: if the problem is weak demand, the obvious solution is to fix demand, not improve supply.

Since the global financial crisis, the developed countries, including us, have suffered a decade of exceptionally weak growth.

We’ve had weak consumer spending because of weak wage growth, the product of globalisation and skill-biased technological change, which has diverted much income to those with a lower propensity to consume.

With weak growth in consumer spending, there’s been little incentive to increase business investment rather than return capital to shareholders.

It’s this weakness in business investment spending that’s the most obvious explanation for weak productivity improvement.

That’s because it’s when businesses replace their equipment with the latest model that advances in technology are disseminated through the economy.

Our econocrats are like the drunk searching for his keys under the lamppost because that’s where the supply-side light shines brightest.

Ross Gittins is the Herald’s economics editor

Laurie McGinness

AndyM's picture
AndyM's picture
AndyM commented Monday, 4 Mar 2019 at 12:11pm

BB, despite your claim that it was good journalism, I take it that you actually don't agree with what was written and you don't think FTAs are a good thing.