What's what?

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Shatner'sBassoon started the topic in Friday, 6 Nov 2015 at 7:48pm

AN ALL-ENCOMPASSING KALEIDOSCOPIC JOIN-THE-DOTS/ADULT COLOURING BOOK EXPERIMENTAL PROJECT IN NARCISSISTIC/ONANISTIC BIG PICTURE PARASITIC FORUM BLEEDING.

LIKE POLITICAL LIFE, PARTICIPATION IS WELCOME, ENCOURAGED EVEN, BUT NOT NECESSARY.

sypkan's picture
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sypkan commented Thursday, 20 Dec 2018 at 11:52am

identity politics is just politics really.

The problem is the universities etc. developed the idea so much, so so much! With so many bright young upstarts trying to outdo each other, it's now atomised society to such an extent, there's is little commonality amongst tribes to be found.

"...“Identity liberalism banished the word we to the outer reaches of respectable political discourse,” he writes. Lost was the vision of civil-rights leaders, like Kameny and Martin Luther King Jr., who always insisted that they were fighting for the equality, and the benefit, of all Americans. In Kameny’s 1961 Supreme Court petition (challenging the federal government’s ban on the employment of homosexuals), he built his argument on the Declaration of Independence’s promise that the pursuit of happiness is an unalienable right. He insisted that “our government exists to protect and assist all of its citizens,” and he rested his claim on “the interest of the public at large and of the nation as a whole.” By contrast, writes Lilla, “in movement politics, the forces are all centrifugal, encouraging splits into smaller and smaller factions obsessed with single issues and practicing rituals of ideological one-upmanship.” It is hard to think of a clearer instance of that sort of balkanization than a string of initials like LGBTQ, much less an absurdity like LGBTQIAA+."

The irony is, that process imposed a 'not part of the identity olynpics' 'identity' onto those that didn't, or couldn't buy into the whole idea.

A massive irony actually. An attempt to stop all that nasty 'othering', broke shit down so much that another 'other' was created.

"...None of this would matter much if today were, say, 2015, when identity politics seemed like a low-cost enterprise. Now, however, we see its price. So long as the libertarian right and the progressive left fail to speak to the country’s yearning for a transcendent identity, and majorities feel they are being ignored or disfavored, someone is bound to fill the resulting political vacuum. Political analysts and researchers find that resentment of political correctness and identitarian excess drove a lot of voters, including a lot of nonbigoted voters, toward Trump’s toxic version of national identity. When Steve Bannon, one of the Trump movement’s leading strategists, said, “If the left is focused on race and identity, and we go with economic nationalism, we can crush the Democrats,” he knew what he was talking about."

https://www.theatlantic.com/amp/article/576388/

Both sides do it. Always have. It's just that the left overcooked the idea, significantly, by 'empowering' millions and millions of university students who weren't smart enough to do science...

And now they're all empowered by a mcdonalds / barista salary by day. And causing internet kaos by night

stunet's picture
stunet's picture
stunet commented Thursday, 20 Dec 2018 at 9:16am

But what's MY identity???

sypkan's picture
sypkan's picture
sypkan commented Thursday, 20 Dec 2018 at 9:20am

Are you asking me?

You're in more trouble than I thought....

(humour)

Blowin's picture
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Blowin commented Thursday, 20 Dec 2018 at 9:29am

Stu - You’re an Anglo Australian working class fella with a spiritual bent not accomodated by traditional organised religion.

Actually, although your mostly enmeshed in Anglo Aussie culture, I don’t think that so much emphasis should be placed upon the “Anglo “ as the Aussie culture is inclusive of all those who truly adopt it.

And you’re South Side !

Probably more gong than shire by now.

stunet's picture
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stunet commented Thursday, 20 Dec 2018 at 9:30am

Fuck, you're better than Scooby and the gang - you've unmasked me!

Blowin's picture
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Blowin commented Thursday, 20 Dec 2018 at 9:36am

Must be all the Scooby snacks.

My current identity group is those who are also being consumed by an unidentified full body tropical rash which burns like fuck , steals all energy and leaves one slack jawed and mentally blank.

Even more slack jawed and mentally blank .

blindboy's picture
blindboy's picture
blindboy commented Thursday, 20 Dec 2018 at 10:47am

Not smart enough to do science? Well neither was whoever you quoted. Year seven, there is no such thing as centrifugal force.

Laurie McGinness

sypkan's picture
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sypkan commented Thursday, 20 Dec 2018 at 11:21am

I was being facetious blindboy

Most writers probably aren't

truebluebasher's picture
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truebluebasher commented Thursday, 20 Dec 2018 at 11:35am

Teen Super Selfie Hero saves World from Common Cause.
G20 upped the (AA meetings) Armageddon Anonymous.
What looks like Doomsday is a movie set of choreographed advertisements.

Brisbane G20 resembled Zombie Apocalypse Trailer.
Green vegan Bikini Babes/Bobblehead Pollie Clubbies/Nuke crew/Masked Anons
Half on Skateboardz the other running at cops...Cut/Take 22 ...Ok that's a wrap!

GC Stolenwealth Koalas were cuter than Borobi...Chasing Sunrise Sam outta Town.
Bang on cue! Last shopping day Dylan headbuts Copcar screaming Cop bashing.
Comm Games Ghost Town come alive with Mob it did. Deadly-set saved our Town.

Recent Cyclone Owen blowins packed out washed up Theme Parks
We've had chain gangs+ Porpoise Pool waderz + Roof Top Town criers

Viva Le France has 1,000's of Topless Lesbian Mariannes in every shape & colour.
Every Torched Trolley Fire Tunnel emerges Anon +Logo + finger to the Man.
The Athletic Olympic Molotov bearer strikes his pose.

People! These are Hollywood Zombie Apocalypse Billboard Trailerz. [ADZ]
Newsreel highlights the ease of rebellion...Gran rocks up burning her Library fine.
If your name is absent from constitution you're invited as a rebel without a clause.

Game gets ugly inviting seething Muslim/Russian/Hooligans liking what they see.
Things get outta hand real quick! Arc de Triomphe smash up looked like ring ins.

Gold Coast salutes Southern Protest Tour Groups. Has worm turned in your town?

blindboy's picture
blindboy's picture
blindboy commented Thursday, 20 Dec 2018 at 9:05pm

The surveillance state. We know who you are, where you are, who you are with, what you are doing and can take a pretty good guess at what you are thinking.
https://www.theguardian.com/news/2018/dec/20/googles-earth-how-the-tech-...

Laurie McGinness

stunet's picture
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stunet commented Friday, 21 Dec 2018 at 8:41am

For:

"...our identity does matter when we confront many genuine political grievances. Racism, poverty, misogyny, homophobia are, alas, very real problems. They affect us individually very differently depending on how others perceive us - or we perceive ourselves - in terms of race, gender, class, sexuality and the like."

And against:

"as soon as you cast an issue exclusively in terms of identity you invite your adversary to do the same”

Both by the same author, pitched in 'The Conversation's' Friday Essay: Identity politics and the case for shared value

Worth a read.

Westofthelake's picture
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Westofthelake commented Friday, 21 Dec 2018 at 9:35am

Good read Stu, thanks.

"When our identity becomes the principal filter through which we understand the world, however, we can no longer presume that notions like truth and objective facts actually exist. We must instead accept that we live in a world of multiple competing truths, with no agreed consensus about how we might choose between them."

Truth will always be truth, regardless of lack of understanding, disbelief or ignorance. (unless you're Rudy Giuliani)
W. Clement Stone

Blowin's picture
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Blowin commented Friday, 21 Dec 2018 at 9:36am

Yes : Drinking beers at 30000 feet with a good mate as you power towards a tropical wonderland of warm water waves. Then getting an empty flight on the return red eye flight allowing you to stretch out over an entire row of seats and sleep for the duration of the flight.

No : Experiencing an acute allergic reaction to the hardcore chemicals they clean the seats with and seeing your entire body turn into an angry , red inflamed mess .

Go into space with Virgin ?

Fuck that , they can’t even ferry me to Indo without giving me a full serve of love blisters

https://youtu.be/EmGWtg11Vws

Westofthelake's picture
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Westofthelake commented Friday, 21 Dec 2018 at 12:23pm

Sounds like blister love Blowin.

Found this vid which thought might cheer you up. (Sure that's not you with the sporty haircut?)
https://youtu.be/KMVog-ZPWYQ

AndyM's picture
AndyM's picture
AndyM commented Friday, 21 Dec 2018 at 12:01pm

"We must instead accept that we live in a world of multiple competing truths"

But what do you do when someone's 'truth' is that Hilter fled to Antarctica in a submarine after WW2, how do you reconcile that?

Where do you draw the line between a personal truth (haha) and outright bullshit?

You might say not to worry about it, but my issue is that it seems to have poisoned so much of the current discourses.

I think especially for the Left, it's like one of those Choose Your Own Adventure books where you disappear down a rabbit hole until you reappear gazing at the inside of your own colon.

truebluebasher's picture
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truebluebasher commented Friday, 21 Dec 2018 at 12:19pm

I agree...(good read crew)...cue soundtrack...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MULxjvOyuPo

GuySmiley's picture
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GuySmiley commented Friday, 21 Dec 2018 at 12:40pm

bugger me @westofthelake

I clicked on that link and 15 minutes later I thought I would ended on this and get back to work

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ILNDWCLVnpw

AndyM's picture
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AndyM commented Friday, 21 Dec 2018 at 12:51pm

GS, that was awesome, the acoustics must have been amazing with the brass up on the next level.

Nothing beats a big band or orchestra.

Westofthelake's picture
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Westofthelake commented Friday, 21 Dec 2018 at 2:18pm

Like Andy said, awesome.

It's been about 20 years since a mate of mine introduced me to that song, but seeing it played like this was pretty unique.

Now get back to work GS :)

factotum's picture
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factotum commented Friday, 21 Dec 2018 at 7:37pm

Anyone remember the (Melbourne) Truth?

Anyway...

factotum's picture
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factotum commented Sunday, 23 Dec 2018 at 12:37am

Another (literal) fucking peanut.

https://truecrimenewsweekly.com/by-george-not-another-sleazy-hypocrite-i...

(But let's not jump to any erm, rash judgments, hey?)

Blowin's picture
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Blowin commented Saturday, 29 Dec 2018 at 11:25am

George Orwell was right.

Read some of the language involved here whilst discussing a situation whereby people have had ideas that aren’t supported by the status quo ....the thought police are in full force.

https://www.smh.com.au/world/europe/neo-nazis-get-a-makeover-as-germany-...

Particularly liked the part where the group was described as undemocratic and then it was reported that they were trying to “ infiltrate “ the democratic process by attempting to have their opinions represented in parliament as is the right of every lawful citizen.

Whether you agree or disagree with the opinions of these young Germans , the alignment of the status quo - politics , media , business - is revealed and on full display attempting to prevent an alternative view being promoted.

Is this the true face of democratic freedom ? Our way or you’ll be under investigation? Obviously it is .

PS Since when did rejecting the concept of open boarders become extremism ?

blindboy's picture
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blindboy commented Saturday, 29 Dec 2018 at 11:48am

Of course history suggests that we have nothing to fear from a drift to the rigiht in Germany with explicit racism at its core. I mean what could go wrong! Anyone who is prepared to tolerate Nazism in any form either has no real knowledge of 20th century history or is acting out of ill will. The idea that it is somehow undemocratic to prevent racists spreading their toxic lies, led a previous generation of Germans to cause a global catastrophe.
Yeh I know it has been quiet in the forums lately Blowin, and there is clear vacancy for a provocateur since Blob went back to Biblenet, but neo-Nazis? Really?

Laurie McGinness

Blowin's picture
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Blowin commented Saturday, 29 Dec 2018 at 11:59am

You think opposing open borders is extremism or racist ?

You think opposing open borders makes you a neo - nazi !?!?

You think that a vested interest attempting to delegitimise a democratic movement by calling it undemocratic makes it so ?

blindboy's picture
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blindboy commented Saturday, 29 Dec 2018 at 12:09pm

Did you look at the headline Blowin? "Neo-Nazis get a Makeover...". Getting a PR consultant and dressing up as hipsters doesn't change who they are. You might also like to ask yourself where a group with such a tiny membership gets the money to fund their various high profile stunts.

Laurie McGinness

Blowin's picture
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Blowin commented Saturday, 29 Dec 2018 at 12:33pm

And you might like to ask yourself if a head line is always representative of the absolute truth.

Or why a newspaper would utilise illogical and conflicting slander in order to present a neutral staging of facts as is their mandate ?

Here’s a hint .....the newspaper is as dodgy and biased as the Germans it’s slandering. The truth lies in the middle.

An inalterable truth is that opposing open borders makes one neither an extremist, a neo nazi or a racist.

Despite what the ever honest msm will tell you.

My reason for posting it was not to encourage or promote the Germans , it was to point out the way the MSM frames their opinion as incontrovertible fact and to highlight the way they’ll build a case against those that threaten the status quo.

blindboy's picture
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blindboy commented Saturday, 29 Dec 2018 at 1:01pm

"Several Generation Identity activists have a past in avowed neo-Nazi circles......."

In terms of immigration if you have an aging population, a skill shortage that cannot be filled by other European nations, and low unemployment then stopping all immigration is a recipe for low growth and recession. I doubt that is really what a majority of Germans want. Groups like Generation Identity attempt to deceive the public by ignoring reality and pretending that the economic problems are caused by immigration.

Laurie McGinness

Blowin's picture
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Blowin commented Saturday, 29 Dec 2018 at 1:16pm

So the only alternative to open borders is stopping all immigration is it ?

Sounds like the Germans aren’t the only ones attempting to deceive the public.

Blowin's picture
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Blowin commented Saturday, 29 Dec 2018 at 1:17pm

Skills shortages !!!!!

Classic.

Blowin's picture
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Blowin commented Saturday, 29 Dec 2018 at 1:21pm

So if several of the Germans had a past in Neo nazism - allegedly and unsubstantiated, of course - you accept that ALL of these Germans are neo nazis ?

Therefore if several sharks have eaten people , then ALL sharks are man eaters.

Is that right ?

Your logic must be sound , surely ?

blindboy's picture
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blindboy commented Saturday, 29 Dec 2018 at 1:45pm

Open borders?
" Immigration to Germany as a non-EU-citizen is limited to skilled or highly educated workers and their immediate family members."

As for the rest, you can do your own fact checking, as is usual for those disputing a position. If you claim that the organisation is not run by people with a neo-Nazi background, you need to provide the evidence. Similarly with skills shortages.

Laurie McGinness

AndyM's picture
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AndyM commented Saturday, 29 Dec 2018 at 2:32pm

Very first comment after the article -

"A true liberal democracy has the strength to withstand hearing dissenting opinions. In fact that is what makes it strong."

I'm of the opinion that sunlight is the best disinfectant.

blindboy's picture
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blindboy commented Saturday, 29 Dec 2018 at 2:38pm

I agree Andy, but in this age of misinformation the sunlight struggles to reach many areas. We have individuals and groups presenting carefully cultivated images to the public while keeping their true agendas close to their chests. This is a particular problem with right wing groups as they have had not only decades of practice, but also decades of dserious corporate funding. Democracy depends on everything being on the table for voters to see. The right has spent billions trying to do the exact opposite.

Laurie McGinness

Blowin's picture
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Blowin commented Saturday, 29 Dec 2018 at 2:43pm
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Blowin commented Saturday, 29 Dec 2018 at 2:47pm

Funny that BB looks for the hand behind the curtain with those opposed to open borders , but fails to do the same for those in favour of it.

That was the entire point of my initial post , but BB has chosen to ignore it.

The paper has sided with globalisation/ internationalization but presents its opinion as facts and an imminent and unopposable future .

If you oppose it you’re an extremist.

You don’t find this policing of thought alarming?

blindboy's picture
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blindboy commented Saturday, 29 Dec 2018 at 3:09pm

Yep Merkel opened the borders temporarily in a refugee crisis. What would you have done? Watch them die across the border? It also helps to remember that a significant part of the continuing flow of refugees from the Middle East into Europe was caused by the invasion of Iraq by an alliance that included European countries. The moral position therefore has always been that those nations responsible for destabilising the entire region through an act of gratuitous stupidity, should take responsibility for the refugees generated by it. I am always amazed that so much bullshit can be swallowed so easily. Look at your organisation's complaint about the Islamisation of Germany, when 5% of the population is Islamic.

Laurie McGinness

Blowin's picture
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Blowin commented Saturday, 29 Dec 2018 at 3:55pm

My organisation ?

But my answer is no, I wouldn’t have opened the borders .

blindboy's picture
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blindboy commented Saturday, 29 Dec 2018 at 4:18pm

No care, no responsibility. Doesn't sound like a policy to bring peace and prosperity.

Laurie McGinness

Blowin's picture
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Blowin commented Saturday, 29 Dec 2018 at 4:34pm

Nothing to do with not caring , just don’t have to jeopardise your country in order to look after others.

If you truly believe that the extreme right has been reinvigorated by the influx of millions of migrants then you’ll ascede that it’s the decision to let them in unfettered which threatened peace in Germany.

blindboy's picture
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blindboy commented Saturday, 29 Dec 2018 at 4:51pm

Not sure that immigration is the only driver of the far right I think they are driven by a wider social conservatism based in a misguided view of the past and an impossible vision of the future. But with around 8% of the German population with an immigrant background it is hard to see why it is unreasonable to accept refugees from the region you helped destabilise resulting in literally millions of deaths as well as those terribly inconvenient refugees.

Laurie McGinness

AndyM's picture
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AndyM commented Saturday, 29 Dec 2018 at 5:38pm

BB I find it fascinating that you are such an exemplar of left-wing illiberalism.

Where does your censorship start and end?

blindboy's picture
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blindboy commented Saturday, 29 Dec 2018 at 6:03pm

What censorship Andy? The only thing I can think of is that Facebook removed their page. Well you can understand that in light of present revelations they might be sensitive about the role of a political organisation working across national boundaries. Me? Their Facebook page was probably nothing more than an echo chamber anyway.
Other than that it is not censorship to expect that professional standards are maintained in mass media. There is legislation about this I believe. Me, I can't believe that so many otherwise capable people are so easily deceived into supporting policies that are against their own best interests.

Laurie McGinness

Blowin's picture
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Blowin commented Saturday, 29 Dec 2018 at 6:14pm

How long before fishing is so restricted that you may as well not own a rod ?

Another result of mass immigration.

Can’t wait to hear how it’s only sensible that we abandon an essential life skill that we’ve practiced since we crawled from the oceans ourselves because it’s in the greater good .

We’ve got to share the load remember !

blindboy's picture
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blindboy commented Saturday, 29 Dec 2018 at 6:26pm

Aaaah! Yes the old change the subject strategy!

Laurie McGinness

AndyM's picture
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AndyM commented Saturday, 29 Dec 2018 at 7:01pm

BB I'm not talking about Facebook. I said that sunlight is the best disinfectant and you fundamentally disagreed with me, primarily because you feel that these people have had too much practice at being duplicitous.

There's only one conclusion I can draw from that, and that's that you support some kind of censorship.

It's funny, I don't entirely disagree, I mean why should the media give air time to, say, politicians who are lying about the existence of anthropogenic climate change.

My point is, it becomes very tricky deciding who gets to say what.

Ralph's picture
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Ralph commented Saturday, 29 Dec 2018 at 7:05pm

Speaking of censorship. Has Blob been shut down or did he leave voluntarily following an overload of personal abuse from the "progressives"?

blindboy's picture
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blindboy commented Saturday, 29 Dec 2018 at 7:11pm

I just described the situation Andy. I didn't propose any particular policy to deal with it. In fact censorship is probably bottom of the list in terms of effectiveness. If I had to propose a policy it would probably be strategies to increase transparency around all the players, media, politicians, social media etc. If people know who is paying they can usually work out if the information is valid. In terms of the right, they have made an enormous effort to reduce transparency so they can pass off their propaganda as fair comment.

Laurie McGinness

AndyM's picture
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AndyM commented Saturday, 29 Dec 2018 at 7:56pm

Thanks for clarifying BB

Blowin's picture
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Blowin commented Saturday, 29 Dec 2018 at 8:00pm

The right has sold the left a dud and now the left is doing the right’s dirty work .

blindboy's picture
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blindboy commented Saturday, 29 Dec 2018 at 8:06pm

Care to clarify Blowin, not sure what you mean.

Laurie McGinness