The United States(!) of A

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factotum started the topic in Thursday, 27 Aug 2020 at 11:12am

Septic Tanks are going to Septic Tank

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groundswell Wednesday, 6 Jul 2022 at 7:22pm

sounds good Udo thanks for the info, i'll give it a try.
Now back to USA talk, i made another thread for wellbeing etc.

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sypkan Monday, 11 Jul 2022 at 3:36pm

'the west' needs to get real smart, real quick...

eat some humble pie, lose the 'exceptionalism' thinking, and reassess its stubborn attitudes to just about everything...

neoliberalism, nationalism, nationalisation... and sadly, energy policy...

fast... we're so stubbornly bogged down, by 'belief' and dogma from certain cohorts and classes, this horse may have already bolted...

https://thehill.com/opinion/international/3545188-have-sanctions-against...

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DudeSweetDudeSweet Monday, 11 Jul 2022 at 3:58pm

The concept of the Nation State is being deliberately sabotaged.

Got to burn everything down in order to RESET.

Our very own Great Leap Forward.

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sypkan Monday, 11 Jul 2022 at 6:50pm

sure seems that way...

"Why Is The U.S. Sending Its Emergency Oil Reserves To China?

Editor OilPrice.com

July 9, 2022, 12:00 am

U.S. SPR release were exported to Europe and Asia last month, including top US geopolitical nemesis in the global arena, China, even as U.S. gasoline and diesel prices hit record highs...

...About 1 million barrels per day have been drained from the Strategic Petroleum Reserve through October, at an unprecedented pace. The drain means SPR inventories fell to the lowest since 1986. US crude futures are above $100 per barrel and gasoline and diesel prices above $5 a gallon in one-fifth of the nation. US officials have said oil prices could be higher if the SPR had not been tapped, and for once they are right. Still, the question looms of what happens to oil prices when the US can no longer sell the SPR amid concerns of a real emergency: we know the answer and the Biden admin won't like it."

https://www.google.com/amp/s/finance.yahoo.com/amphtml/news/why-u-sendin...

absolute insanity

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sypkan Monday, 11 Jul 2022 at 6:54pm

"“The members raise the national security implications of using up our strategic fuel reserves recklessly while other countries stock up, especially China. China has been purchasing crude oil, including reportedly from the U.S.’s SPR, in order to build up its own stockpiles,” they added"

https://www.google.com/amp/s/theprint.in/world/biden-allowing-emergency-...

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frog Tuesday, 12 Jul 2022 at 8:17am

Hunter Biden to run in 2024. Has the media profile, family name, connections, new teeth...

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pcrisp Tuesday, 12 Jul 2022 at 9:17am
frog wrote:

Hunter Biden to run in 2024. Has the media profile, family name, connections, new teeth...

but can he play the piano with his penis like zelensky

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soggydog Tuesday, 12 Jul 2022 at 9:59am
pcrisp wrote:
frog wrote:

Hunter Biden to run in 2024. Has the media profile, family name, connections, new teeth...

but can he play the piano with his penis like zelensky

Loves crack and Eastern European prostitutes. Perfect

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etarip Tuesday, 12 Jul 2022 at 12:05pm
frog wrote:

Hunter Biden to run in 2024. Has the media profile, family name, connections, new teeth...

Biden / Trump runoff 2024

Hunter vs Ivanka. The rock show continues

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sypkan Tuesday, 12 Jul 2022 at 12:45pm
etarip wrote:
frog wrote:

Hunter Biden to run in 2024. Has the media profile, family name, connections, new teeth...

Biden / Trump runoff 2024

Hunter vs Ivanka. The rock show continues

I was gonna say the same... jokingly...

half jokingly... hunter has too much baggage... even for the democrats!

ivanka on the other hand, may have her eye on the prize... hence the distancing herself from the more nutty nuttyness of 'the big steal'...

she'd be a bit of a formidable force I reckon, whilst political dynasties are well and truly on the nose... she brings the things trump and his trumpism got right (which is actually quite a lot, ...if one has the ability to block out all the noise)

...and she's a non climate change denying mother... a 'woman', if I may be so crass... which would diffuse and pretty much make a mockery of much of the democrat's contemporary ip obsessions...

she could kill about 4 or 5 birds with one stone

the reddit crowd might not like it, but the trumpyism would get her over the line I reckon... it's not like they're gonna flip to kamala...

or whatever cooked up ip obsessive stooge they prop up next...

because big joe is clearly done, whether he likes it or not...

whether he's even remotely aware of it or not...

the machine has quite obviously moved with its support / protection racket in the last two weeks or so

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sypkan Thursday, 14 Jul 2022 at 5:18pm

you can fool some of the people some of the time... but you cannot fool all of the people all of the time...

even democrats!

https://issuesinsights.com/2022/07/13/americans-see-jan-6-hearings-as-po...

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batfink Saturday, 16 Jul 2022 at 10:05am

An interesting article Sypkan, but those two questions are loaded dice. The explanatory extrapolation is more than overreach.

But it comes from a journalist. They aren’t good at numbers, and apparently not so great with words either.

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sypkan Monday, 18 Jul 2022 at 10:11pm

"Everything you need to know about the modern liberal media is contained in the following fact. They told us there was a video of Donald Trump consorting with prostitutes, but there wasn’t. And they told us there probably weren’t any videos of Hunter Biden consorting with prostitutes, but there were. The supposedly respectable, ‘reality-based’ media expended far more energy gabbing about a completely mythical video of Trump watching Russian hookers take a leak in a Moscow hotel room in 2013 than they did investigating rumours of real videos showing the current president’s son taking drugs with prostitutes in hotels in Vegas and elsewhere. Fake news about Trump carries more weight than real news about the Bidens in today’s messed-up media.

We need to talk about Hunter Biden. Yes, we’ve all seen far too much of the president’s son in recent days, courtesy of the latest leaked videos from his various computer devices. And yet we have to discuss this because the Hunter story – or rather, the fact that the Hunter story took so long to come out – tells us a great deal about the media elites of the 21st century...

...a crack pipe, with two call girls. The women refer to him as their ‘future baby daddy’ and to themselves as ‘naughty whores’. This was filmed in 2018, just nine days after Joe Biden had wired Hunter $75,000. It’s a sorrowful, pathetic video. And yet we are compelled to imagine the global media storm there would have been if it had been revealed that Trump had sent tens of thousands of dollars to one of his sons who then seemed to blow it all on prostitutes and drugs. That would unquestionably have been turned into a frontpage indictment of the moral rot of Trumpism.

The response to the Hunter iCloud leak could not be more different. Amazingly, some in the woke set even wondered if the videos are real. Snopes, once a fact-checking site and now a blatantly partisan media outlet, advised its readers to ‘take individual rumours and memes [about Hunter]… with a grain of salt’. Rolling Stone’s response was to lambast 4chan. 4chan is a cesspit of ‘baseless, hate-fuelled misinformation’, it raged, seeming to hint that the Hunter videos might be misinformation, too...

...And yet some of the recent revelations from Hunter’s gadgets are more serious, more political, and they reach to the president himself. And, strikingly, even that is not being widely discussed...

...What’s more, Joe denied attending a dinner in Washington, DC in 2015 with Hunter’s business associates from Russia, Ukraine and Kazakhstan. Yet emails and photographs confirm he did attend. It’s now also known that Joe met with some of Hunter’s other Chinese business partners...

...Indeed, there is a staggering irony to the liberal media’s muted response to the Hunter / Joe revelations. For years the woke establishment went on and on about Trump’s alleged links with Russia. He was a Putin puppet, they said, planted in the White House by powerful Ruskie oligarchs. Yet these same people have said almost nothing about the revelation that Hunter was entertained by ‘billionaire oligarchs in Moscow’...

...Big Tech has played a role in trying to dampen down public interest in the latest Hunter leaks. Initially, anyone who searched on Google for terms such as ‘Hunter Biden crack’ would be greeted with a message saying: ‘It looks like these results are changing quickly.’ They were then invited to search for further information in ‘a few hours or days’. ‘Come back later’, Google’s automated response instructed. Apparently this was because the info about Hunter could not be verified, yet I don’t recall receiving similar messages when I Googled ‘Trump Russian prostitutes’ a few years back...

...Rumours about Trump were enough to send the liberal media into a frenzy; truths about the Bidens cause them to feel nothing at all. This is how politicised mainstream journalism has become. It now clearly conceives of itself, not as the pursuer of truth, wherever that might lead, but as the defender of the professional managerial elites against the questions and concerns of the populist throng. This is why the Hunter Biden story matters. Not because one sad, unsettled man took some drugs and hired some prostitutes – we can forgive that – but because the media establishment has made it clear to the world that it is more interested in protecting power from truth than speaking truth to power."

https://www.spiked-online.com/2022/07/18/hunter-biden-and-the-corruption...

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adam12 Tuesday, 19 Jul 2022 at 12:10am

As soon as I read "woke" I'm out.
Drivel really.
Hunter Biden was/ is an addict.
Who gives a fuck.
Little Don shoots lions for fun, looks coked off his head every time I see him.
Don Snr snorts adderall. No one cares.
The pee pee tape story got traction because it is salacious and hilarious. Hunter Biden 'stories' only interest people who use the term "woke".
Tucker Carlson v The Rock in '24, or maybe Beto O'Rourke. Kamala is a dud.

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sypkan Tuesday, 19 Jul 2022 at 1:08am

now that's some bias right there...

the issue is the 'misinformation' and the media, not the crack head...

and that the crack head would be the story if it was a trump jr...

if you're not worried that the whole media, big tech, intelligence community megacomplex is lying to you... then good for you...

I don't want to live in that world

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adam12 Tuesday, 19 Jul 2022 at 1:24pm

Sypkan "I don't want to live in that world"
No one does, but here we are.

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sypkan Wednesday, 27 Jul 2022 at 11:51pm

"The recent release of more gigabytes of images and information from Hunter Biden’s laptop adds to the evidence that the all-out elite effort to bury the scandal before the 2020 election wasn’t just to protect Joe Biden, the preferred candidate of the American oligarchy. Sure, the 50-plus senior U.S. intelligence professionals who signed a letter claiming the laptop’s contents were “Russian disinformation” wanted to stop Donald Trump from sending angry tweets at them, but the laptop suggests there was much more at stake.

The U.S. spy chiefs who signed that infamously misleading letter—including John Brennan, Leon Panetta, Michael Hayden, and James Clapper—had directed America’s foreign intelligence services while Biden was vice president and before that chair of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee. They knew what his son Hunter was doing abroad, because it was their job to know what foreign services know about leading U.S. officials and their families, and how it might affect U.S. national security.

But none of these powerful and experienced men, presumably dedicated to defending the national interest, lifted a finger to stop Hunter Biden—and really, how could they? He was Joe Biden’s son, after all. And by doing nothing about him, the pillars of America’s intelligence community became the curators of the Biden family’s scandal...

...It hardly needs to be said at this point that, contrary to media reporting on the left and right, there is no actual investigation of Hunter Biden’s laptop. In August 2020, an FBI agent who played a role in framing Trump as a Russian agent dismissed the laptop as Russian disinformation. This assessment, according to a recent letter from Sen. Grassley, caused the FBI’s investigative activity to cease. It doesn’t matter how damning the laptop’s contents might be, or whether they include child pornography or photographs of Joe Biden cashing checks from China. Whatever investigation might exist is performative, meant to show that the agencies are treating the president’s son like any other U.S. citizen. It’s a Potemkin investigation, obscuring the wasteland that was once the constitutional order before 9/11 legitimized the intelligence agencies’ ruinous attacks on it.

Still, even without a trial, it’s clear that Hunter Biden has enjoyed one of the most maniacally reckless careers in American history. What distinguishes him from real daredevils, like rock stars, test pilots, and terrorists, is that he always worked with a safety net—one billed to the American public, which will continue to pay dearly for the excess his father afforded him.

Outsiders can’t know the character of the tragedies and ambitions that push families together and drive them apart. Maybe Joe Biden thought that facilitating Hunter’s access to dangerous foreign officials and corrupt foreign companies would toughen him up. That would be something like an imperial American version of the Prince Hal path to greatness. Or maybe the psychology isn’t very complicated at all, and it’s just the saddest story about an American political family that will never be told."

https://www.tabletmag.com/sections/news/articles/the-national-tragedy-of...

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soggydog Thursday, 28 Jul 2022 at 1:04am

Which puts some truth to Trumps claim fof a stolen election. Not through voter fraud but through mis-information and suppression of evidence that surely would have influenced voting. I listened to Miranda Devines book “Laptop From Hell’ recently. The Biden Crime Family is as dodgy as they come. Makes the Trumps look like amateurs.

Note; I’ve not often agreed with much of what I’ve read of Miranda Devine. But in this case I think she is on the money.

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sypkan Thursday, 28 Jul 2022 at 11:54pm

"Which puts some truth to Trumps claim fof a stolen election. Not through voter fraud but through mis-information and suppression of evidence that surely would have influenced voting..."

totally!

the election was 'stolen' on so many levels...

why trump entertained the more nutty elements of 'the big steal'... well...

if he shut down guilliani and that nutty sydney powell, he might have gotten somewhere... as usual, he is his own worst enemy...

looking like a clean sweep of both houses in november though

then we may see some action re. the biden crime family...

lets hope so... a decent clean out is all that can save america atm from my perspective...

the 'corruption of process' (as bernie puts it) is so endemic, trump is / was, a neccesary evil

even if nothing comes of it, which is highly likely... as the system protects its own... again...

but, watching the bidens squirm and face the music, will be a sight to behold anyway

I honestly cannot believe the dems went with joe and all his baggage

I honestly cannot believe 'big joe' the man at all actually... such a delusional wanker, who exhibits such extreme hubris... the dude is a tool... in more ways than one...

the dems are about to get what they deserve

and then there's 'our abc', ...not even a peep out of em... still!!

there was once a time, when programs such as four corners would have been all over such outrageous political scandal

now, its just... shame shame shame

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sypkan Thursday, 28 Jul 2022 at 11:59pm

re.

"lets hope so... a decent clean out is all that can save america atm from my perspective..."

some interesting numbers

"...In the meantime, here’s what the poll says:

A majority of Americans say the U.S. government is corrupt and almost a third say it may soon be necessary to take up arms against it, according to a new poll from the University of Chicago’s Institute of Politics.

Two-thirds of Republicans and independents say the government is “corrupt and rigged against everyday people like me,” according to the poll, compared to 51 percent of liberal voters.

Twenty-eight percent of all voters, including 37 percent of gun owners, agreed “it may be necessary at some point soon for citizens to take up arms against the government,” a view held by around 35 percent of Republicans and around 35 percent of Independents. One in five Democrats concurred.

It’s not altogether unreasonable to see such numbers and conclude America is ending. But the good news is that America is not ending..."

https://spectator.org/no-america-isnt-over-revivalist-manifesto/

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Island Bay Friday, 29 Jul 2022 at 4:35am

Wow. Not surprised that there are many, but THAT many?

And I guess that it's already happening in many places, just with tractors and trucks instead of guns.

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frog Friday, 29 Jul 2022 at 5:21pm

In case we forget the Ukraine tragedy. Here is an update that seems credible:
https://original.antiwar.com/William_Walter_Kay/2022/07/25/day-150-of-th...

Quote "Ukraine’s government seems hell-bent of feeding millions of Ukrainians into the wood-chipper. Of course, this isn’t "Ukraine’s" government anymore. This is a Biden Administration subsidiary"

The "woodchipper" has been set up by Russia as they have been forced into a binary choice to either grind out a win the hard (yes brutal) way or lose by the no negotiation stance of VZ even in the face of massive losses . The conveyor belt carrying the "wood" is oiled and fueled by the west.

Press ganging young and old Ukrainian males is now routine. The process is cheered on by World leaders who fly in for photo opportunities before flying home feeling what I wonder?

Warm fuzzies fed by a massive media blitz? Or perhaps a sense of unease at their complicity in their heroic cheering of the fight to the last Ukranian when they know wider Europe was not really under threat?

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sypkan Wednesday, 10 Aug 2022 at 10:57am

the guardian...

'remarkable', ridiculous and laughable as always

https://www.zerohedge.com/political/guardian-accuses-republicans-weaponi...

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sypkan Wednesday, 10 Aug 2022 at 11:00am

taibbi...

onto the hard truths and reality as always

"...Pulverizing! Hold that thought.

We’ve reached the stage of American history where everything we see on the news must first be understood as political theater. In other words, the messaging layer of news now almost always dominates the factual narrative, with the latter often reported so unreliably as to be meaningless anyway. Yesterday’s sensational tale of the FBI raiding the Mar-a-Lago home of former president Donald Trump is no different.

As of now, it’s impossible to say if Trump’s alleged offense was great, small, or in between. But this for sure is a huge story, and its hugeness extends in multiple directions, including the extraordinary political risk inherent in the decision to execute the raid. If it backfires, if underlying this action there isn’t a very substantial there there, the Biden administration just took the world’s most reputable police force and turned it into the American version of the Tonton Macoute on national television. We may be looking at simultaneously the dumbest and most inadvertently destructive political gambit in the recent history of this country..."

https://www.zerohedge.com/political/taibbi-welcome-third-world

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DudeSweetDudeSweet Wednesday, 10 Aug 2022 at 3:33pm

This is so heavy.

Just think….those around Biden knew exactly what he was like as they pushed him towards the Presidential run. Anyone care to take a shot at convincing me he’s not an obvious puppet?

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velocityjohnno Wednesday, 10 Aug 2022 at 4:21pm

Hey folks, question: did Pelosi trip to Taiwan occur without Biden knowing/consent?
Are we looking at different factions doing different things within dems? However it is, it sure poked the panda's nest.
Not really following it over there since that election, happy to let clown show be clown show as anticipating that foreign/mil policy will be consistent.

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sypkan Wednesday, 10 Aug 2022 at 5:11pm

"Hey folks, question: did Pelosi trip to Taiwan occur without Biden knowing/consent?"

well, one can assume he knew... not him in particular... he doesn't know if he's arther or mc carthy... but his people knew... his 'minders' knew....

they tried to stop it, which just added to the impression of of incompetence / division / cluelessness...

"Are we looking at different factions doing different things within dems?"

most definitely, ...if one was inclined to 'believe' the 'russian misinformation' on hunter's laptop... that so clearly showed that 'the big guy' and son are totally conpromised on all things china... one might assume 'beijing biden' is totally on a different page than pelosi about all things china...

or, he just saw it as reckless and unnecessary...

conveniently, column A and B?

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Roker Wednesday, 10 Aug 2022 at 5:54pm

But Nancy sure showed those young whippersnappers - who art not without ambition- a thing or two. Not, of course, suggesting that Nancy would risk escalating global insecurity in order to shore up her post mid-terms position as speaker/minority leader.

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etarip Wednesday, 10 Aug 2022 at 7:03pm
frog wrote:

In case we forget the Ukraine tragedy. Here is an update that seems credible:

You’re on the Amnesty train then frog?

The ‘wood chipper’ is only in operation due to the illegal and unprovoked invasion of a sovereign nation by a neo-fascist autocratic state. I’m guessing you’re aligned with the solution (final?) that Putin’s mob are suggesting that Ukrainians just lay down and take what they had coming to them?

Another one of the muppet mob that are hellbent on denying Ukrainians any degree of agency to choose to resist invasion and annexation. Another muppet who can only see the current conflict through the binary lens of US-Russia competition.

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etarip Wednesday, 10 Aug 2022 at 7:06pm

Syppo, out of all the discussions about what this FBI warrant, signed by a Trump appointed judge and executed by the FBI under an Trump appointee, that’s the one you pick!?! and of course, Hunter Biden’s laptop makes an appearance!

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etarip Wednesday, 10 Aug 2022 at 7:27pm

You know that the hallmark of third world regimes is that politicians are above the law, right? Not subject to it?

Now, it would be scandalous if the search was executed without a warrant. That would be some third world shit. But, clearly there was a warrant. And that warrant must have been approved on the basis of some evidence. The other piece that will be interesting is whether this was directed at the WH level or executed under an extant authority. I have read that the recovery of these classified docs has been an ongoing effort, frustrated at times by a degree of obstruction and intransigence.

Now, whether you (or Tabbibi) think the removal of classified documents is ‘trivial’ or not is irrelevant, really. How would (should) the apparatus of national security respond to any other citizen removing and holding classified docs? Funnily enough, it’s treated seriously by all states. Australia’s recent form on similar cases is illustrative.

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sypkan Wednesday, 10 Aug 2022 at 7:50pm
etarip wrote:

Syppo, out of all the discussions about what this FBI warrant, signed by a Trump appointed judge and executed by the FBI under an Trump appointee, that’s the one you pick!?! and of course, Hunter Biden’s laptop makes an appearance!

not sure what you are getting at there etarip...

so I will be clear on my position, the warrant no doubt has some substance - how much? ...we will see...

some precedent? ...quite the opposite...

the warrant ("must") have some substance... according to the press we are supposed to trust...

fair enough, ...my take... it refers to a pretty minor 'crime', that pales in significance to prior administrations...

but it is a very useful conduit to indiscriminately clean out trumps whole house, of boxes and boxes of documents, that no doubt - if examined closely enough - could possibly incriminate trump in other ways

...in order to do what they have been trying (unsuccessfully) to do all along... with a litany of FBI indiscretions etc...

get trump! ...and put him out of 'the business' once and for all...

once again, just like russia russia russia, mark 1, 11, and 111... and two impeachments... etc. etc. ... the only surprising thing, is, and will be, if they cannot make a substantiative case - its trump after all!

but hey .... they've failed 5, 6, or 7 times at least already by now...

so either, they are totally incompetent...

trump ain't that bad...

or, they are all so twisted and full of hate from tds, they cannot think straight, and therefore continually fail to be able to make a decent case as they cannot see the forest for the trees...

Im just agreeing with taibbi... if they haven't got their shit together and ducks in a row... this time! ...finally! ... this will be the dumbest, most unscrupulous, and most dangerous thing they have done yet!!

after quite a list of dumb, unscrupulous, and dangerous things...

tell me one thing, you really still believing / pushing that hunter's laptop is russian misinformation?

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sypkan Wednesday, 10 Aug 2022 at 7:45pm

"How would (should) the apparatus of national security respond to any other citizen removing and holding classified docs?"

ask hilary and co.

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etarip Wednesday, 10 Aug 2022 at 7:48pm

Not sure what I’m getting at? Sorry, there’s been all sorts of speculation and relatively qualified opinion, with detail on the warrant process, classified documentation handling requirements, etc etc, but the only one of interest to you is the one that criticises the MSM for selectively quoting sources…

I’m pretty sure that the warrant will specify what they’re looking for and there will be a record of what was taken. That’s the process. I’m not a lawyer (you’re not either I’m guessing) but my understanding is that warrants aren’t fishing expeditions.

Speculation of the chance of prosecution aside, I found this a useful prompt on the basis and process for the warrant / search.
https://www.wired.com/story/trump-fbi-raid-mar-a-lago/

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etarip Wednesday, 10 Aug 2022 at 8:00pm

Hillary and Hunter. Of course.

Hillary was investigated. Documents were found. That’s on the public record. The decision to prosecute or not is a different matter.

Hunter Biden’s laptop? Russian misinformation? I don’t know. It’d be a pretty complex operation if it was. But it’s clearly not the smoking gun that you and Tucker want it to be.

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adam12 Wednesday, 10 Aug 2022 at 8:44pm

Trump has the receipts for what they took. If it was nothing he would have published them, or the warrant, on Truth Social already. It looks like the FBI has got Meadows to flip. Trump lawyers told him to cut all ties to Meadows two days before the raid. Trump is stupid enough to keep incriminating evidence. Garland and Wrey are both competent and aware, Trump is going down, jail time, civil war or not. Other matters too, he's under oath on civil matter before NY AG tomorrow, other States coming for him, insurrection, treason and sedition charges notwithstanding. The Trumpanzees go crazy but it's an Epstein ending I predict.

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sypkan Wednesday, 10 Aug 2022 at 10:25pm

someone say epstien?

seriously, is there anyone in this incestuous cesspit that isn't compromised in some form or another...

https://www.zerohedge.com/markets/judge-who-signed-mar-lago-search-warra...

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sypkan Wednesday, 10 Aug 2022 at 10:30pm

"Hillary and Hunter. Of course."

of course of course...

I honestly cannot understand how anyone can be so dismissive of such matters

its totally relevant

especially when politics is all about precedent...

the clinton / biden families have set some pretty low bar precedents

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frog Wednesday, 10 Aug 2022 at 11:30pm

Etarip, listen to this interview from 13.50 for a non-amnesty non-muppet, hard nosed assessment of the Ukraine / Russia situation by an ex CAI operative.

There is media narrative and hope and there is the reality of a large opponent who has decided it must win.

The whole interview is interesting by the way and very wide ranging.

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etarip Wednesday, 10 Aug 2022 at 11:54pm

Donald Trump appointed Judge Bruce Reinhart to the position, and he began serving as a judge in 2018.

Corruption!

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etarip Wednesday, 10 Aug 2022 at 11:56pm
sypkan wrote:

"Hillary and Hunter. Of course."

of course of course...

I honestly cannot understand how anyone can be so dismissive of such matters

its totally relevant

especially when politics is all about precedent...

the clinton / biden families have set some pretty low bar precedents

Epic whataboutery.
The precedents. Jeebus. Where to start?

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etarip Thursday, 11 Aug 2022 at 12:08am

Frog, I’ve spoken to lots of people about Ukraine. Including a number of people who’ve been there in the past 6 months. I’ve got a sense of the geopolitics. I’ve read the realist perspectives. Mearshimer et al. I’ve read the hand-wringing Russian apologists. I’m not buying it. I’ll listen to the podcast tomorrow.

My view. The Russians have over-extended. Ukraine survived for long enough to mobilize (close to 1 million) and have maintained enough combat power to shift to the offensive. Whether they have enough to succeed remains to be seen. But things will get worse for Russia from here on. That’s not ‘hope’, that’s what’s going to happen.

My biggest fear is that Russian forces will orchestrate an incident at one of the currently occupied nuclear facilities in Ukraine on the way out. That will be a catastrophe and would be the only thing to trigger a direct external intervention.

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Jelly Flater Thursday, 11 Aug 2022 at 11:22am

Haha… etarip
‘I’ve spoken to lots of people about Ukraine’ blah blah… ;);)

Russia are sitting pretty.
You need to understand Russians first.
Also you need to consider and have a proper gauge on the historical context of Zelensky and his corruption and the continued incessant meddling of the USA and nato in the region.

Now… I am no Putin apologist or supporter, let’s get that clear. Show us, though, your understanding and experience of the Donbas etc.
Consider the facts. Also consider the facts of western imperialism and coercion and blackmail that has existed since the end of WW2.

Yes, we dropped a few bombs in Japan and killed a bunch of innocent ppl. Maybe an appropriate response to such events as pearl harbour etc but really just a flex - and a big one at that.
The desired effect was achieved.

However, Russia hasn’t forgotten the 23 million ppl they sacrificed to defeat the nazis - for us. Russia turned the tide of the war beyond our comprehension and this arrogance of the west continues today…

Tell me - from Korea, to Vietnam, to both Iraq wars, Afghanistan and Syria ( just to name a few) when has the US been ‘successful’ or won a war ??? Really ;);)

Can you explain the relentless toppling of foreign governments or executions of foreign political leaders around the world - whether it be in South America, the Middle East, Africa or Asia? ;) Can you explain the weapons provided to destroy and wreak havoc upon innocent civilians of sovereign nations every where and anywhere in the world that the US sees fit according to ‘their’ rules?

Ukraine is another proxy war that the US has enabled and facilitated and (wait for it)… caused. And now we are in the grips of another propaganda effort to sway the general public’s minds into believing that there is another ‘just cause’ to fight in order to uphold ‘freedumb’. ;););)

The Ukraine is toast. Meanwhile, paint ya fingernails blue and yellow and change your Facebook profile pic to incorporate the Ukrainian flag ;););)

What Russia is doing is not good. I get it. Yet it is impossible to ignore the big picture. We also find it impossible to see things from the Russian perspective…

Consider - relative to the whole ‘special military operation’ Russia speaks of - how is it different to the insane machinations of our own state sanctioned propaganda? Remember those WMD’s ?? ;);) Remember how the west armed and created ‘Islamic terrorism’ by funding, weaponising and training ppl (think Bin Laden etc) to fight the Russians in Afghanistan. Facts.
Remember though ? ;);) How did that end up ? ;);)

These are just the operations we know about. Imagine what else is really going on … ;);)

So… yeah, let’s send billions of dollars of weaponry and aid to another ‘oppressed’ country whose sovereignty has been so wildly obstructed and affected by an ‘illegal’ invasion. ;);) Yeah! We’ve never invaded a sovereign country, never destroyed functioning societies and cultures…

Good luck trying to convince anybody otherwise.

Russia will push on. Maybe try talk to ppl actually living there - not just ‘visiting’. How convenient. There is a big difference. Talk to ppl living in Poland and Germany, for example ;);) They may also have interesting perspectives ;);)

Meanwhile, we sit pretty here thinking the US will back us up eventually when the time comes. The US military has been stretched for a while now, they can’t defend Taiwan. It is impossible in an event with China that they could bring any real resistance and successfully defend Taiwan - a couple of aircraft carriers and a navy fleet - look geographically and tell us if realistically they can hold their own from the sea ;);)
Good luck with that.

Russia are showing they’ll do whatever they want. China will eventually do the same. It is time for the west to acknowledge and have the balls to concede that they have to change their approach.

I don’t agree or support any Russian or Chinese ideology or doctrine. What is occurring is wrong on all fronts.

And nobody actually can state that ‘things will get worse for Russia from here on. That’s not hope, that’s what’s going to happen’.

That is hearsay. That’s an opinion based on what? What’s going to happen is ‘we have no farkn idea’…. ;);)

Atleast get that bit straight ;)

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etarip Thursday, 11 Aug 2022 at 6:20pm

JF, good rambling rant. Great deal of irrelevant comparisons. I’m not going to justify Russia’s actions with those of any other state. Wrong is wrong.
So…. You understand Russians? What’s your basis for that? Seriously… where do you get this insight?
NATO meddling…. Fark, here we go again. 2 countries admitted in the past 15 years, total population 2.5 million. What wa there imminent threat to Russia from Ukraine again? The trigger for NATO’s expansion at the request of Sweden and Finland was… Russia’s invasion of Ukraine.
Russia sitting pretty? Righto. Let’s wait and see. Not what I’m seeing from a military perspective. Things can’t get worse for them? I can’t say that? Really? I reckon things have gotten progressively worse for them over the past 6 months. Look at their objectives. Constantly being revised, downwards. They’re losing territory faster than they’re gaining it at the moment. Do you see any irony in the fact that pretty much as you wrote that rambling diatribe, Russia lost at least a dozen planes sitting on an airfield 200km from the front line? The most aircraft lost on a single day in this conflict so far. But, I can’t say that things are going to get worse for Russia? OK…

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Jelly Flater Thursday, 11 Aug 2022 at 9:23pm

etarip
You can say whatever u want ;)
Ready for another rant ? ;);)

What I can say about Russians is that the people of Russia are not exactly the Russian government and they are a proud and strong people (and this could be said for any population anywhere relative to their homeland….) Try notice, though, the distinction between homeland and country ;);)

If u wish to study the process of the break up of the Soviet Union and understand the concessions Gorbachev was willing to go along with (for his ppl) you will soon see that the west has continually gone back on its word and backtracked on numerous ‘deals’… Go on, delve a bit deeper into nato’s history and discover the nitty gritty of not only it’s financial and military contributors but also it’s aims and promises. Have they been true to their word and are they being held accountable exactly ? ;);)

Russians have a strength of will and determination comparable to the Chinese. The difference, in comparison to us in the west, is that they haven’t lived for the last three or four decades in decadent opulence and with the ability to have self determination. Sanctions are nothing new and having lived for generations under conditions applied by outside forces has only strengthened their resolve. Only in the last decade have things turned - and it’s not just about material wealth - it’s about leverage on the world stage… and now militarily, things are on the up because of their stranglehold on resources and Europe’s dependence on gas etc. (meaning the cost of war is now a feasible option).

Have a good study also of how much Russia has profited from the price of gas that they supply to several countries in Europe. (Germany being the largest consumer) Since the beginning of the Ukraine conflict, for a start, Russia has made more profit from their supply of gas to Europe than the cost of the war so far! ;);) Get that ;) They can lose twelve planes a day as long as they have the land corridor established from the ‘motherland’ all the way to Crimea ;)

Just as we’ve grown up forever fearing and treating Russia as an adversary and the ‘bad guys’ - how do you reckon the US is regarded from the other end? Whether it’s through actual political fear mongering or entertaining fiction like Rocky movies or Rambo or Top Gun etc, we have in our collective psyche a false representation of an ‘evil’ empire that actually has a rich culture and history that is just different. (Now don’t get started about Lenin or Stalin or whoever - we conveniently disregard our own atrocities and colonial genocide to suit ourselves)

I have encountered and still associate with people of Russian heritage. Some of my other closest friends grew up in east Berlin (not exactly Russia itself but Russian Germany nonetheless). Their insights and personal experiences (good and bad) shed light on the brutality of the Cold War era and the hardships faced as a result of being at the mercy of oppressive regimes, on both sides. The west has only been ahead in their ability to manipulate their self image - as in doing things under the guise of ‘liberation’…

I in no way condone or find Russia’s actions justified. They are not losing territory. Check the maps since the invasion began ;) Also, why are you ignoring the Donbas and the context within this conflict? The Ukrainians have a bit to answer for there - as does the US.

Now… consider Russia trying set up bases or supplying arms in or near to Mexico ;) You know, that place beside America ? How would the US respond if Russia began interfering in the ‘region’.
Another ‘irrelevant’ comparison but really, maybe not if u wish to see past what u only wish to see ;)

Now…. let’s also not start on military objectives ;););) or revisions downwards!
Any comparisons there in regard to Afghanistan as just the most recent military failure of the US. They are running the show and we have been dragged into something unnecessary as a result. Again. They are the masters of failed objectives and downward revisions… haha… the irony ;)

Until we learn from our mistakes we’ll repeat them. After all, conflict and war are not viable from our end unless we are profiting from it. And are we? ;);) If we can rebuild Ukraine then maybe… A big maybe. They owe a lot of countries a lot of money ;);) In the meantime, Russia is still calling the shots and we just whinge and try blame what’s going on there for our own economic failings ;)

The irony is on you ;)
So go on… explore the whole Donbas debacle. Explain away how the sale of Russian gas hasn’t contributed to and funded the war and enhanced Russian capabilities ;)

Objectives aside, the Russians can change things up all they want - we do that ;) Europe shares the blame for this and it’s great to try pretend you haven’t done anything to contribute to something when it’s highly plausible the narrative is another false effort…

Oh the irony ;)
Carry on ;);)

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Jelly Flater Thursday, 11 Aug 2022 at 9:41pm

https://m.

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etarip Thursday, 11 Aug 2022 at 10:57pm

You’re all over the shop bro.

You don’t know Russians, but you’ve read a couple of books? And you know some Germans? Well blow me down with a feather! And the Russians, they’re just like the Chinese, who have a proud sense of motherland. Where do you get those books again?

I’ve read plenty too. I get the post cold-war period. I understand it, I get a sense of Russia’s insecurities (not lack of security). The Russian Federation is an anachronism, a fiction, like most empires. This war is hastening its demise, not securing its future. Why the false equivalence with whatever the West has done or not done? We’re talking about this war. Your comparisons seem to point to a justification. Classic bit of whataboutery…

Having a cash flow doesn’t resolve your inability to replace your lost capabilities in a timeframe or a scale that you need. Russian gas has given them money, not capability. Different things. Cash rich, asset poor. Whatever. You get that, right? Unless you think that Putin and Shoigu can just wander down to the local Sukhoi shop and pick up a couple more jets off the showroom floor. Or just ‘build’ some more cruise missiles, or a new cruiser. It’s even more basic than that. You can have all the artillery ammunition in the world, but if your guns barrels are all shot out and haven’t been serviced in 6 months you simply can’t get any degree of accuracy, which you need to overcome with increase rate of fire, which needs even more ammunition. And what a system… don’t even get me started on the fragility of their logistical system. Why do you think the Ukrainians are targeting ammunition and refined fuel depots? And high tech air defence and electronic warfare systems.? Because they’re just not replaceable.

Now, what cash does give you is the ability to pay soldiers on lucrative contracts [or private military companies) then compensate their families when they die. But it’s all for naught when they’re not furnished with the accoutrements of 20th century warfare, let alone 21st. So, you end up chewing up your best troops. Russias VDV airborne forces have virtually cease to exist.

You’re right on one thing. Russia is not ‘losing territory’. Not Russian territory. Never has been, because they’re invading a sovereign country. But, if you read my point, it was that Russian forces are losing more ground in Ukraine on a daily basis than they’re gaining. They control less this week than they did last week… and that’s going to accelerate. Because they’ve culminated. I don’t think the Ukrainian counter offensive has started yet. Now, I don’t think they’re going to get the Russians back to the Feb 2022 borders, let alone the 2014 borders, but Russia hasn’t got enough to hold what they’ve got. They’re going to have to make some decisions.

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Jelly Flater Friday, 12 Aug 2022 at 12:43am

Haha … yes … the shop.
The US weapons shop. Still open for business ;);)

Just to refresh - I associate with Russians.…Russians who still have family in Russia and Ukraine. ;);) -Lifelong friends who speak Russian, still travel to Russia. They are all against the war, by the way.

My other friends from east Berlin I mentioned grew up under communist rule so it’s about what I have learnt from their experiences…

These aren’t ppl I’ve just met or barely know… just to put it in context ;)
This stuff is not from a book… most people have a deep connection to their ‘motherland’ in regard to one’s heritage and often the longer the culture the deeper the roots. Quit your assumptions.

Advanced weaponry… high tech stuff… yep it’s good for warmongering and hyping up your own ;) I’m trying to highlight the power of a people’s will and determination…
It cannot be underestimated nor ignored.

How did our advanced weaponry go in Afghanistan ? ;);) (oh it’s now in the taliban war chest) And I mentioned things like Vietnam and Korea - relative to how a false sense of supremacy can bite you ;) These examples are relevant because US foreign policy is actually all over the shop and the western war machine doesn’t learn from its mistakes. It just sells more weapons ;);)
Wrong is wrong right?

You also keep ignoring the Donbas ;)
Vital reference points there…

Also how’d we go against the Russians in Syria? Cue Wagner group and the like ;) Let’s not be too glowing about our military ‘achievements’ and weapon systems just yet. There is nothing commendable or impressive about having inside military knowledge of battlefield strategy or logistical hardware systems or supply and efficiency of ammunition/guns etc.

Siri might even have the last laugh;) Half the weapons we’ve sent to Ukraine have gone missing or been destroyed en route before getting to the frontlines anyway… As I said, this is a proxy war. And another conflict that will certainly have ongoing repercussions.

We have a repeated pattern and rich history of invading sovereign nations and we have an obvious tendency to not allow anyone else to do the same. It’s hypocritical and actually a massive factor in why the future is now fraught with uncertainty. It is arrogant to pretend we haven’t contributed massively to what is occurring and disgraceful to assume anything good will come from our interference. It is denial and convenient cherry picking to ignore this.

As you stated earlier…. You’re ‘not going to justify Russia’s actions with those of any other state’.
Wrong is wrong.

I agree. What we’re doing in Ukraine is wrong. What the US and Russia is doing is wrong… and what Ukraine is doing is wrong too.

That’s the main point here. Please don’t go into military hardware comparisons and perceived Russian troop ability critiques…. Let’s concentrate on and be realistic about our own inadequacies first and clean up our backyard - your own whataboutery is of an impeccable military grade standard (great word) …from a book maybe? ;);)

All war is farked. Good people exist in all races and cultures and all governments are run by shady elites who send good men to die on all sides.

No such thing as winners.

Good luck to you… bro ;)
Only time will tell…

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etarip Friday, 12 Aug 2022 at 6:48am

Well, I’m glad you’ve cleared up that wrong is wrong and that this war is unjustified. At least we can agree on that. As for how it’s conducted, thats probably where we’re going to continue to disagree.

Y’know that’s funny in this conversation? You repeatedly leave Ukrainians out of it. Like they don’t matter. Like their sense of nationhood is fiction. It’s the basis of their will to fight. The import of weapons underpin their ability to win, and it’s not just from the US either.

And Europeans. West, central and Eastern varieties. Like they’re irrelevant, when they’re not.

As for whether knowledge is commendable or not… if you’re using it as a basis for informed assessment, it’s gotta be better than ignorance. You made a couple of statements that I’ve contradicted, with reasoning. The military balance in Ukraine is shifting. It’s not just about the weapons, but they matter.

Finally, Wagner and Syria? Do you know much about that?
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Khasham

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Jelly Flater Friday, 12 Aug 2022 at 7:39am

Your words :

- ‘The Russian federation is an anachronism, a fiction, like most empires. This war is hastening it’s demise, not securing its future’.

Ummm… nothing like the US empire? And this statement is not applicable to the west ? ;);)

Our ‘empire’ is fiction personified. It is the blueprint of fiction ;)

- And here lies the ignorance. Once again accusing the ‘other side’ of what is simply applicable to us as well -
and entirely possible in reference to our participation…

The war won’t hasten our demise ? ;);)
But yes it will make our future more secure… how can you be so sure? ;);)
Try lose the bias.

Oh, yes and let’s go all Wikipedia on ‘facts’… kinda like the glee ‘over a dozen’ Russian planes destroyed - you can try inflate and exaggerate all you want ;)

Wasn’t it actually nine … ;)

And who really cares of those ‘stats’. It’s propaganda and you know it. Both sides suppress and modify to suit individual needs. Conflating figures or having supposed ‘commendable’ knowledge is an effort in diverting attention away from ignorance… It’s part of military strategy to influence and affect morale.

And its ‘funny’ - supposedly I’ve left Ukraine outta this? Really ;);) I’m sure I’ve mentioned zelensky and his corruption and what that represents for Ukraine and the interests he serves are not exactly about the Ukrainians ;);)

One word… Donbas.
Who’s leaving shit out and avoiding stuff ;);) It’s clear as day… Donbas.

I am aware of where some of my mates families grew up and lived ;) I’m privy to what their children have endured. I’m not taking sides. I’m not supporting nor finger pointing. I’m highlighting an obvious truth. Why not go all wiki on the azov battalion ? ;);) ….ooooops ;)

So where exactly is your clear and informed assessment ? ;)

Try. Give it a crack….
- Donbas.

And have you ever been to Russia ? I’ve travelled and stayed extensively there - with Russians. Also with Ukrainians who live in Poland. No books…

And disagreeing on the apparent issue of how ‘war is conducted’ ? ;);)

No excuses… wrong is wrong right ;)

Again. …Good luck ;)
All the best to you.