Free Speech, comments and the recent High Court decision

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thermalben started the topic in Friday, 10 Sep 2021 at 6:28am

Michael West has produced a great explainer of the recent High Court decision regarding free speech on Social Media platforms. 

Michael and his team have done some incredible investigative journalism over the years, check out his site and please subscribe if you like his work. 

https://www.michaelwest.com.au/

Blowin's picture
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Blowin Monday, 11 Oct 2021 at 4:38pm

The Democrats are doing the same in the US. This is bigger than the LNP.

Vic Local's picture
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Vic Local Monday, 11 Oct 2021 at 5:02pm

Seriously ID, What exactly did I get wrong?
People like Friendly Jordies and Michael West need social media to collect an audience. Scumo's ministers use fake social media accounts to attack their critics, and Scumo has a long history of cracking down on whistleblowers.
These are facts. So ID, where exactly is the conspiracy theory?

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indo-dreaming Monday, 11 Oct 2021 at 5:42pm

Well the ABC article i read was about concerns of social media and the negative effects on peoples lives from trolling and bullying etc.

I didn't read anywhere they are trying to ban or restrict Friendly Jordie's or Michael West social media pages.

Although there really does need to be more accountability on what facebook pages post, ive seen a number of organisations making false and very misleading political related statements on sponsored post, and thought how the hell is this allowed or how do they avoid legal repercussions?

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Fliplid Monday, 11 Oct 2021 at 5:57pm

As long as the legislation targets that aspect of the problem, the bullying and trolling, and doesn't go after legitimate sites by making it easier to start court actions against them.

Also I'd hate to see an outfit like The Betoota Advocate get hobbled!

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Vic Local Monday, 11 Oct 2021 at 6:00pm

"I didn't read anywhere they are trying to ban or restrict Friendly Jordie's"
What planet Indo Dreaming... What planet do you live on? You do realise the Friendly Jordie's producer was arrested by the NSW Police fixated persons unit. That shit is for terrorists, not comedians / journalists. That's an absolutely bloody shameful use of police resources to silence a government critic. That case is going nowhere.
Yes there's a problem with social media pile ons, but there are existing laws (albeit requiring updating) to deal with those situations. Here's the important question for you ID, can you really see Scumo's laws being used to stop social media pile ons like the one on Yassmin Abdel-Magied? or will they just be used on people who say mean things about the government?
You really don't understand how power is used in Australia. Here's a clue. Look at the recent defamation actions by Dutton and Porter. They aren't about punishing the naughty person who said mean things. They are all about warning others to keep their mouths shut.

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indo-dreaming Monday, 11 Oct 2021 at 6:23pm

Um hello we all know free speech doesn't mean you can saying anything about anyone without any consequences, this is not restricted to social media but yeah people seem to think they are free from the law when online, it's fine for us nobodies our reach is small and close to irrelevant, but once you start getting a large number of followers and a profile, it's probably time to start being a bit smarter otherwise karma is going to come kick your arse.

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Vic Local Monday, 11 Oct 2021 at 6:39pm

This government is hell bent on quashing critics, and Scumo's anti-social media agenda isn't aimed at stopping social media pile ons like the ones scum like Ari the wife basher regularly coordinate.
It's just like Dutton's defamation lawsuit against an absolute nobody. It's aimed at silencing or discrediting their political opponents.
Anyone who calls these corrupt dogs in the LNP, "corrupt dogs" could get punished if Scumo gets his laws through. I'd even suggest his laws would be flexible enough so the "truth defence" used in defamation cases doesn't apply.
Scumo's anti-social media agenda is straight out of Trump's "fake news" playbook.

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indo-dreaming Monday, 11 Oct 2021 at 7:09pm

ha ha whatever dude.

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Vic Local Monday, 11 Oct 2021 at 7:20pm

OK champ, you just sleep well in your fantasy land where powerful people don't try and silence or belittle their critics.

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indo-dreaming Monday, 11 Oct 2021 at 7:50pm

The fantasy land, is the land where people like Jordie's think they can say anything about somebody especially high profile people like politicians and that they are exempt from any consequences, it's all people like Jordie's do to get clicks, same deal with Tom Tanku only reason people don't sue him is because he doesn't have much followers.

Personally i think more politicians etc should take a stance and hammer a dude like Jordies with half a dozen seperate defamation cases and send him broke and crazy as looking at his videos im sure there is plenty they could get him on.

It's the same deal with Ben Pennings and Adani, people like him think they can do and say anything and there will be no consequences, so it's good to see Adani finally fighting back a little a handing him a big court cost bill.

They also need to ban fundraising to pay any related court cost if you are being sued for defamation etc.

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stunet Monday, 11 Oct 2021 at 8:06pm
indo-dreaming wrote:

Personally i think more politicians etc should take a stance and hammer a dude like Jordies with half a dozen seperate defamation cases and send him broke and crazy as looking at his videos im sure there is plenty they could get him on.

You'll recall the LNP came in swinging through the early years of their tenure about the threat that Section 18C posed to society.

Interesting comparing all that early posturing and fear-mongering to where we are now, including comments such as this from conservatives encouraging legal means to shut down free speech. So whatever happened to George Brandis' 'right to be a bigot'?

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GuySmiley Monday, 11 Oct 2021 at 8:29pm

What stu said + the moves against NGO’s critical of gov’t policy by defunding, ending tax deductibility status for donations and ending legal protections against law suits from vested 3rd parties.

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Vic Local Monday, 11 Oct 2021 at 9:05pm

"Personally i think more politicians etc should take a stance and hammer a dude like Jordies with half a dozen seperate defamation cases".
I'm actually amazed Barilaro is going through with the law suit. The standard practice is to say something like "His video is a disgrace and I'm keeping my legal options open", only for the defamation action never to happen, and the media moves on.
Porter's defamation case was an unmitigated disaster and the bloke's reputation has been trashed by his own hand.
I'm actually glad some sections of the media are holding our fucked up politicians to account. You on the other hand are cheering on the crooks.
The funny thing is, the conservative media and conservative politicians have had a truly shit run in the defamation courts in the last decade. That's what happens when conservative politicians are crooked and are held to account, and conservative media publishes absolute shit and get their comeuppance.

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Vic Local Monday, 11 Oct 2021 at 9:12pm
stunet wrote:
indo-dreaming wrote:

Personally i think more politicians etc should take a stance and hammer a dude like Jordies with half a dozen seperate defamation cases and send him broke and crazy as looking at his videos im sure there is plenty they could get him on.

You'll recall the LNP came in swinging through the early years of their tenure about the threat that Section 18C posed to society.

Interesting comparing all that early posturing and fear-mongering to where we are now, including comments such as this from conservatives encouraging legal means to shut down free speech. So whatever happened to George Brandis' 'right to be a bigot'?

Hey Stu, It's probably got something to do with the conservative cultural warriors' truly fucked up definition of free speech. Free speech to these dogs starts and stops at saying racist, homophobic, and bigoted statements with zero consequence.
They don't think free speech is the right to call a corrupt powerful person a crook without a backlash.

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wally Monday, 11 Oct 2021 at 9:42pm

Paraphrasing someone else’s comments

This is a Prime Minister who's failed to investigate alleged rape claims in Parliament House or rape claims against his former Attorney General or his use of $1M in mysterious legal fees, or why millions were spent on promised car parks or swimming pools that don't exist or why many millions have been seemingly overpaid as land compensation to various party supporters, but he’s pearl clutching over what Bazza123 from Blacktown reckons.

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Vic Local Monday, 11 Oct 2021 at 9:52pm

"but he’s pearl clutching over what Bazza123 from Blacktown reckons."
gold Wally.
It's like the Herald Sun folk who went ballistic at Dan Andrews not wearing a mask from his car to his press conference, while being oblivious too, or not giving a rat's arse about Porter's million dollar gift. Some LNP donor gets $30 million for a $3 million block of land and these people say meh, but a photo appears on a forum of cyclists riding three abreast or an inclusive toilet sign and they lose their collective shit.
They just have the weirdest most self-centred set of priorities.

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wally Monday, 11 Oct 2021 at 10:14pm

"but he’s pearl clutching over what Bazza123 from Blacktown reckons."
gold Wally.
That line was stolen mostly intact from RonnieSalt

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Roker Monday, 11 Oct 2021 at 10:57pm

I get it now.

No way a meticulous micro manager such as Dan Andrews just forgets to wear a mask. Ever.

But he knows Neil and Rita et al will incite the populous into indignant outrage with claims of rank hypocrisy. This will in turn provide distraction as he struggles to recall (yeah right) details of incendiary and important (dodgy?) dealings with the UFU and CFA and prepares to spin the resignation of another minister amidst an investigation into industrial scale branch stacking.

Sucked in! He’s a clever politician,

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blindboy Tuesday, 12 Oct 2021 at 10:19am

It will be interesting, if Morrison and Barnabubby get there way and ban anonymous posts, to see which SN posters will be willing to own up to their previous identity.

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Robwilliams Tuesday, 12 Oct 2021 at 1:20pm

spot on wally, more monty python and gra please

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thermalben Wednesday, 13 Oct 2021 at 2:33pm

"Sydney magistrate unimpressed by NSW Police's application to suppress FriendlyJordies videos"

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-10-13/magistrate-adjourns-police-applic...

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andy-mac Wednesday, 13 Oct 2021 at 3:15pm
thermalben wrote:

"Sydney magistrate unimpressed by NSW Police's application to suppress FriendlyJordies videos"

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-10-13/magistrate-adjourns-police-applic...

AndyM's picture
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AndyM Wednesday, 13 Oct 2021 at 3:22pm
thermalben wrote:

"Sydney magistrate unimpressed by NSW Police's application to suppress FriendlyJordies videos"

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-10-13/magistrate-adjourns-police-applic...

""That's a charge? God, it's not even a walk through the park. It's inane," the magistrate replied."

Hahaha!

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blindboy Wednesday, 13 Oct 2021 at 3:24pm

That makes three of us posting the same link.

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AndyM Wednesday, 13 Oct 2021 at 3:28pm

I'd love to be sitting in the public gallery and hear a magistrate say that.

It'd warm your heart.

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Craig Wednesday, 13 Oct 2021 at 3:31pm

Absolutely incredible, such a disgrace the relevant NSW authorities in this instance. How's the spelling mistakes wow!

Blowin's picture
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Blowin Wednesday, 13 Oct 2021 at 3:34pm

Jordies is achieving great things on his crusade.

He single handedly dethroned Bruz and now he’s shining the spotlight on the bovver boy cnts dirtying up our police force.

Legend.

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Fliplid Wednesday, 13 Oct 2021 at 4:16pm

The Murray-Darling videos are a good effort as well, no wonder they are gunning for him

indo-dreaming's picture
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indo-dreaming Wednesday, 13 Oct 2021 at 4:25pm
stunet wrote:
indo-dreaming wrote:

Personally i think more politicians etc should take a stance and hammer a dude like Jordies with half a dozen seperate defamation cases and send him broke and crazy as looking at his videos im sure there is plenty they could get him on.

You'll recall the LNP came in swinging through the early years of their tenure about the threat that Section 18C posed to society.

Interesting comparing all that early posturing and fear-mongering to where we are now, including comments such as this from conservatives encouraging legal means to shut down free speech. So whatever happened to George Brandis' 'right to be a bigot'?

In all honesty i didn't follow that section 18 issue or take much interest in it, just odd listen on ABC radio..

But i think there is a big difference between dragging an individuals persons name or even a business name through the mud especially if it damages their reputation and the negative things said aren't based on anything more than personal opinion.

In this case the attack was said to even be "vile and racist"
https://www.news.com.au/national/nsw-act/politics/nsw-deputy-premier-joh...

Compared to say having a negative view's about a group of people, and having the right to dislike and express that dislike to some extent.

BTW. Most people are bigots in some way even if they admit it or not, go have look in the religion thread and have a look at openly bigoted views of Christianity and Christians, most find that acceptable but if you had a bigoted view about Islam or muslims etc, the same people with bigoted views about Christianity/Christians would cry foul

It is hard to know where to draw the line though and get the balance of having the right to not like someone or some group and express the view to some extent but also not cross a line where you are being outright hateful to the point your opinions can case damage to them etc

Some of the lines are obvious, but some shades in between harder to make a call on.

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stunet Wednesday, 13 Oct 2021 at 4:27pm

Swellnet: Cool by association.

1:00 min.

Blowin's picture
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Blowin Wednesday, 13 Oct 2021 at 4:33pm
stunet wrote:

Swellnet: Cool by association.

1:00 min.

That was pretty fucken funny

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Johknee Wednesday, 13 Oct 2021 at 4:34pm

haha 100% accurate!

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Craig Wednesday, 13 Oct 2021 at 4:44pm

Haha so good!

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Roadkill Wednesday, 13 Oct 2021 at 4:50pm

Gold!!!!!! An instant classic.

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simba Wednesday, 13 Oct 2021 at 4:54pm

awesome ....and a couple of cameos by swelltonians

blindboy's picture
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blindboy Wednesday, 13 Oct 2021 at 5:47pm

Better be careful. They are watching! It was actually a bit dated so I reckon the next episode will have middle aged men in their bedrooms bent over their phones.

Vic Local's picture
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Vic Local Wednesday, 13 Oct 2021 at 10:22pm

Hey Indo Dreaming,
Just a little tip. Probably best not to sink the boot into Friendly Jordies on a free speech thread. It makes you look very silly. The lawsuit and police actions against Shanks and his producer are going so spectacularly wrong for Porkie Bruz and the fixated persons unit.
I suspect the defamation action and criminal charges will get dropped and Shanks and Kristo will walk away with a big cash settlement and an even bigger smiles.
And Bernard Colleary had a big win too recently. Porter's defamation case against the ABC was a spectacular own goal and then he slammed the ball into the back of his own net again by taking $1 mil in anonymous cash.
One thing that is very reassuring in Australia is our judiciary. They simply aren't tolerating the LNPs anti-democratic shitfuckery anymore. The courts still hold the good old-fashioned definition of free speech of speaking truth to power. The conservative's idea of free speech, that starts and ends with consequence-free minority bashing isn't cutting it in court.

etarip's picture
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etarip Thursday, 14 Oct 2021 at 7:45am
blindboy wrote:

Better be careful. They are watching! It was actually a bit dated so I reckon the next episode will have middle aged men in their bedrooms bent over their phones.

Middle-aged? You’re probably being generous there blindy.

Blowin's picture
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Blowin Thursday, 14 Oct 2021 at 7:48am

Middle aged? I heard that Blindboy is writing his posts on the just released Commodore 64 he got for his 80th birthday.

blindboy's picture
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blindboy Thursday, 14 Oct 2021 at 7:53am

etarip I was working on the average age. I am older than that....but am still in good working order with all original parts.

etarip's picture
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etarip Thursday, 14 Oct 2021 at 8:02am

Ah, wasn’t a directed comment blindy. I’d guess the kids would see the majority of the commentators on here as ‘old’. Myself included.

Blowin's picture
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Blowin Thursday, 14 Oct 2021 at 8:08am
etarip wrote:

Ah, wasn’t a directed comment blindy. I’d guess the kids would see the majority of the commentators on here as ‘old’. Myself included.

There would be plenty of young surfers on here who just are not interested in a 50 page argument over the current definition of Left Wing interspersed with 25 pages of bickering . Or was that 50 pages of bickering and 25 pages or arguing?

When I was sub 35 I hardly gave a rat’s about that stuff and life was better for it.

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blindboy Thursday, 14 Oct 2021 at 8:31am

Still an option.

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brutus Thursday, 14 Oct 2021 at 8:32am
Blowin wrote:
etarip wrote:

Ah, wasn’t a directed comment blindy. I’d guess the kids would see the majority of the commentators on here as ‘old’. Myself included.

There would be plenty of young surfers on here who just are not interested in a 50 page argument over the current definition of Left Wing interspersed with 25 pages of bickering . Or was that 50 pages of bickering and 25 pages or arguing?

When I was sub 35 I hardly gave a rat’s about that stuff and life was better for it.

ah yes ignorance is bliss....

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Craig Thursday, 14 Oct 2021 at 1:03pm
Vic Local wrote:

And Bernard Colleary had a big win too recently.

That's great news, I've met Bernard a few times, a fellow mountain lover and backcountry explorer.

indo-dreaming's picture
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indo-dreaming Thursday, 14 Oct 2021 at 6:45pm
Vic Local wrote:

Hey Indo Dreaming,
Just a little tip. Probably best not to sink the boot into Friendly Jordies on a free speech thread. It makes you look very silly. The lawsuit and police actions against Shanks and his producer are going so spectacularly wrong for Porkie Bruz and the fixated persons unit.
I suspect the defamation action and criminal charges will get dropped and Shanks and Kristo will walk away with a big cash settlement and an even bigger smiles.
And Bernard Colleary had a big win too recently. Porter's defamation case against the ABC was a spectacular own goal and then he slammed the ball into the back of his own net again by taking $1 mil in anonymous cash.
One thing that is very reassuring in Australia is our judiciary. They simply aren't tolerating the LNPs anti-democratic shitfuckery anymore. The courts still hold the good old-fashioned definition of free speech of speaking truth to power. The conservative's idea of free speech, that starts and ends with consequence-free minority bashing isn't cutting it in court.

There's a huge difference between sinking the boot into someone on a forum than actually creating videos to attack peoples character that half a million people will possibly see and then actually make money from it.

Democracy or free speech isn't about having the right to intentionally defame somebody in this case apparently even racially, i dont care if you are a conservative or a Greens leader or whatever, you should be able to live without constant personal attacks or false claim or racial slurs or videos that might incite direct hate towards you any your family etc

If it goes in Jordie's favour id expect the courts decided he didnt cross the line, but it's a dangerous game to play, next time the courts might see things differently.

In regard to your last sentence, it's not just a conservative thing you yourself are also constantly attacking minority groups, they are just minority groups that you feel are fair game.

Vic Local's picture
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Vic Local Thursday, 14 Oct 2021 at 6:58pm

Indo Dreaming, I'm not overly concerned about the defamation action against Shanks. I believe he will win it on a fair comment / truth defence. People say things about politicians all the time. If they get it wrong, there's consequences. That's how the system works. While I like Friendly Jordies' work, I was not impressed with him focussing on Barilaro's Italian heritage, which is largely irrelevant and he provides so much other material to work with.
The much bigger issue is the violent arrest of his producer on what certainly looks like trumped up charges. The request to have Friendly Jordies remove YouTube videos by the same police department is just straight out of a dictator's playbook. I also believe this course of action will result in a massive humiliation for the police involved.
We will find out in a few months.

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Constance B Gibson Thursday, 14 Oct 2021 at 7:14pm
freeride76's picture
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freeride76 Thursday, 14 Oct 2021 at 7:37pm

Wonder if he means it.

or is just putting out a bit of performative woke signalling to keep the dogs at bay.

No judgement either way.

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Constance B Gibson Thursday, 14 Oct 2021 at 7:42pm

If you've been attuned for all these years, there wouldn't be any wondering involved.

Speaking of wondering, I wonder what Albini would make of the term "performative woke signalling"?

No, don't answer.