DUMP on Trump

southernraw wrote:

goofyfoot wrote:

seeds wrote:

The problem I’d have is if the nasty ranga got shot it would demonstrate Australia has become America. No Australian wants that.

Since CK got shot and this thread turned into what it currently is, this is the best thing I’ve read on here.
The US is a serious basket case, and it’s just reinforced how lucky we are to live here.
Yeah a lot of people are doing it tough in Oz currently, I’m sure everyone on here knows someone who is struggling, my own family members included, but I still wouldn’t want my kids to have been born and grow up anywhere else.

Goofy!! You're alive. Was slightly concerned about ya. Happy to hear! Hope you're going well.

All good here @southern!

Thanks man. You to.

Can't wait for cherries! Our tree yet to sprout it's summer leaves. Two years ago we were getting 1.5kg off each limb, best tree ever invented!

Scouring the pro Trump news sites, a headline that he's thinking about designating Antifa a terrorist organisation. And that Vance and Miller (I think) were in charge of the response so it looks like respond they will. It's all very partisan - both ways. See Spanish Republic, as before.

be good to fire up the Building Surf thread, @goofy.. any pics? @AW needs a bit of fun-not-chore motivation atm.. we all probably do, coming out of winter.

How good are summer cherries!

velocityjohnno wrote:

Can't wait for cherries! Our tree yet to sprout it's summer leaves. Two years ago we were getting 1.5kg off each limb, best tree ever invented!

got a boy and a girl tree, @VJ..? or good bee population and cherries in the area?

southernraw wrote:

actually bad example to be honest because that's saying gun violence is ok, which i don't think it ever is. But say he kicked him in the nuts and put his tackle out of action for good. Again, shit example, i'll leave now.

That ain't no political assassination.

goofyfoot wrote:

southernraw wrote:

goofyfoot wrote:

seeds wrote:

The problem I’d have is if the nasty ranga got shot it would demonstrate Australia has become America. No Australian wants that.

Since CK got shot and this thread turned into what it currently is, this is the best thing I’ve read on here.
The US is a serious basket case, and it’s just reinforced how lucky we are to live here.
Yeah a lot of people are doing it tough in Oz currently, I’m sure everyone on here knows someone who is struggling, my own family members included, but I still wouldn’t want my kids to have been born and grow up anywhere else.

Goofy!! You're alive. Was slightly concerned about ya. Happy to hear! Hope you're going well.

All good here @southern!

Thanks man. You to.

Ahh great to hear.

AndyM wrote:

southernraw wrote:

actually bad example to be honest because that's saying gun violence is ok, which i don't think it ever is. But say he kicked him in the nuts and put his tackle out of action for good. Again, shit example, i'll leave now.

That ain't no political assassination.

Yessss....exactly why i realised a terrible analogy. My bad.

basesix wrote:

be good to fire up the Building Surf thread, @goofy.. any pics? @AW needs a bit of fun-not-chore motivation atm.. we all probably do, coming out of winter.

I’ll see what I’ve got @base.

Fanning the flames and piling on the left.
@base, you mentioned above that it was a ploy to play us against eachother.
Not sure i misunderstood your post, but....
Gotta disagree. These are the 2 highest people in power creating a narrative of the other.
The division starts at the top.
Also Vance's claims of the Left having the highest incidence of violence, is factually incorrect. 70% plus of political violence has been perpertrated by Republican fanatics. 4% by democrats.
Not that it should actually matter. It's not the problem.
The problem is the mouth pieces creating it.

It's not left v right. It's Trumps MAGA against the other. If you're not MAGA you're the other, and the easiest way to stereotype you, is as part of a imagined conglomerate, the left.
Which is probably what you were hinting at @ base! haha

said it flat out, @SR. They want everything reduced to a submissive march, rather than a conversation: Left, right, left, right, left, right, left, right, left, right.. all the way to 'the promised land' and 'freedom'.

goofyfoot wrote:

basesix wrote:

be good to fire up the Building Surf thread, @goofy.. any pics? @AW needs a bit of fun-not-chore motivation atm.. we all probably do, coming out of winter.

I’ll see what I’ve got @base.

How was G-Land this year ? I think you were walking into a huge swell .

Gotchya!! Having a shocker this arv :-(

Feel for you, with your deadlines.. don't get too caught up in procrastination! (like we all do).

I think i will admit i've succumbed too much to the passion and swayed from the compassion today.
Something i'll try to be aware of.
I have my reasons, i've come under personal unprovoked attacks from extreme right wing religous extremists in my 'friends' circle this week and it set off a trigger.

No pun intended.

ahh.. hawthorn supporters..? it'll all be over soon..

hahaha!! Grrrrr you said the word!! Huck huck hok!!

basesix wrote:

Is it a political assassination, @AndyM? was john lennon's?

dude was an influencer.. (albeit a very political one, but not voted in to office,
or having to answer to anyone) shot by a crackpot who's motives aren't known.

I'd be a little mindful of the comparisons chosen at this point -
and the divisive rhetoric.. usa is such a sick swampy minefield
of politics defining every moment and event and tragedy.

can mental illness, cult of personality, generational poverty, hate speech, detachment from reality, social media silos, an impoverished health care system, get a look in? let alone responsible gun ownership.

.. seems super convenient for those wanting to control from the top if the prols and plebs want to make everything us-and-them political, neh?

I think for sure it's a political assassination.
Kirk was overtly political and totally partisan.
Like Malcolm X, MLK and Ghandi, you don't have to be voted into office to be assassinated for political reasons.

As for "can mental illness, cult of personality, generational poverty, hate speech, detachment from reality, social media silos, an impoverished health care system, get a look in", some of those were what I was talking about when I said I'd care if Jacinta Price was assassinated.

Supafreak wrote:

goofyfoot wrote:

basesix wrote:

be good to fire up the Building Surf thread, @goofy.. any pics? @AW needs a bit of fun-not-chore motivation atm.. we all probably do, coming out of winter.

I’ll see what I’ve got @base.

How was G-Land this year ? I think you were walking into a huge swell .

Hey supa, it was a great trip mate.
Don’t want to get off topic on this thread..
I’ve had better waves on other trips but I was there with an epic crew. The bigger days were busy.
Looking at the social media posts lately it looks like late August/early September was pumping.
Hope you are recovering ok.

mm, cheers, @AndyM.
just trying to picture any murder of a USA public identity that wouldn't be considered 'political' today.. seems different to yore. I wonder if the daily killings that don't make international news are quickly simplified as 'political' by partisan media..

(I did consider trying to make a quip about 'assassination' should be 'arsearseination' here, but seemed a bit glib given the context).

Yeah everything is so politically charged, it's too much.
People are still absolutely febrile over what political leanings the shooter had, they're desperately trying to fit him into one side or another of their political dichotomy.
But I think "run of the mill" murders like Sharon Tate, Nicole Brown Simpson, Versace etc (if you want to define them as public identities) would still be "just" murders today.

yep. And my john lennon ref kinda reminds it was always thus with the 'political' label as a go to. and this influencer was a very political figure.. maybe I'll just push for 'political killing' instead of 'political assassination'.. getting allergic to hyperbole of any sort. thanks for talking through it. I agree it's taken up way too much of our time and headspace. I didn't give this much thought to the deaths of Princess Diana or David Bowie. Even though one made me think about life more deeply and I had their poster on the wall growing up. Bowie was cool too.

This is worth a read Basesix.

https://theconversation.com/this-will-not-end-here-a-scholar-explains-wh...

"What’s different now is we see an increased support in political violence from both sides of the political spectrum.
Consistently, almost a quarter of the public is willing to support political violence in some form, or see that as a legitimate form of political action.

Political assassinations create a process of escalation that encourages others on the extreme political spectrum to feel the need to retaliate. And that is my main concern. That this process creates legitimization and acceptance, that it provides the sense that this is an acceptable form of political action.

And as we see an increased political polarization, and the increased demonization of political rivals, we see the decline and disappearance of political discourse and policymaking. The bipartisan political process in Congress in the past few years has been almost nonexistent."

basesix wrote:

yep. And my john lennon ref kinda reminds it was always thus with the 'political' label as a go to. and this influencer was a very political figure.. maybe I'll just push for 'political killing' instead of 'political assassination'.. getting allergic to hyperbole of any sort. thanks for talking through it. I agree it's taken up way too much of our time and headspace. I didn't give this much thought to the deaths of Princess Diana or David Bowie. Even though one influenced me daily and made me think about life and I had their posters and merch growing up. Bowie was cool too.

Haha! Tiara hanging off the bed head.
And yeah, hyperbole can go and get fingered although I feel it's yet another lovely gift from the U.S. to Australia.

How are you doing these (heady) days @wax24?

Btw I follow this guy, do you know his work by any chance?

https://m.youtube.com/c/chamberlainpaintings/videos

Good read @AndyM.
This point...
"It was a bit unusual that the attack was not against an elected official. Rarely have we seen political assassinations that are aimed at the nonprofit political landscape. Usually those people are not deemed important enough.

Secondly, and it’s something I see a lot in my research, political assassinations come in waves. We see that not only in the United States but other countries. I’ve looked at political assassinations in many democracies, and one of the things I see in a fairly consistent manner is that political assassinations create a process of escalation that encourages others on the extreme political spectrum to feel the need to retaliate. And that is my main concern. That this process creates legitimization and acceptance, that it provides the sense that this is an acceptable form of political action. This will not end here."

Is it too soon to talk about possible background persuasion yet. Shoot one of the loved ones, create extreme outrage, blame the other?? Which was my initial thoughts all along. But i do tend head straight into rabbit holes ;-) Is it a question worth asking though? Would anyone put it past Trump??

Keeping in mind the extremely hazy information coming out about the shooter and how it changes daily and seems to be building some kind of narrative. Especially when considering that it was without a doubt a left extremist transexual shooter before they even had a suspect in custody.
There's way too many narratives angling at demonising the other to not raise serious questions.

The most unfortunate consequence of this sorry business is that Bella Ciao* is now a symbol of the murderous modern Culture Wars. As a lament to the decrepit remnants of the shared culture, we should all agree to agree to insert Bella Ciao into a boot shaped amber filled bottle made of Culture War resistant 1930s glass. Even if it was written after the war. And let it there remain. Non boot shaped countries at the very least, and that includes you Land of the Free, should leave it the eff alone. Not yours. Must you befoul every thing?

Gophers and Transigents alike - write your own bloody song. If you must.

And to the Meggans and the Meddees - base grifters all - shut the fuck up. Get a real job. Do something useful. As far as us other cnts go, muddling along, FFS, stop encouraging these Meggan and Meddee cnts. Turn on Yarn and Turn Off The News. And that poison in your hand.

Not quite in the same uplifting and life affirming league as Bella Ciao, but a tonic all the same. A more appropriate call to arms - Turn Off The News - in the era of the Culture Wars, than Bella Ciao, that’s for effin sure. And a most pleasing (perhaps a little overdone) crack at one of those happy feels ascending chord structure thingummys.

Hallelujah.

*yeah yeah, of course I only ever heard of it cos of the show on Netflix. Must be all their fault I suppose, the producers.

Good post @roke but fark me, let people create and postulate without fear of censorship. That's the point isn't it!? So far i have not seen one single person advocate the shooting. And that's bloody awesome on behalf of this community. A bunch of good folk, regardless of their reflections post political/non political assassination. And even saying that kinda puts you into the one or the other camp anyway. Go easy soldier. We're all just trying to work through reasona and logic and occassionally passion takes a hold, as we're all only human. But i've seen zero endorsement of what happened nor zero inflammaton nor incitement.
Always like your perspectives. Cheers.

news is for suckers.

Sure is b6.
I prefer watching cats falling off ladders.

Nah disagree. Gotta watch the news to keep half an eye on what the shifty bastards are trying to get away with in their propagandha.
Of course, you don't sit down to watch the news.
A guitar strapped over your shoulder and pricking your ears up everytime you notice a selling point or narrative that is not in line with facts is imperative. Still toxic to the system though and can have irreversible side effects if you find yourself sinking into the couch.

yep. radio. don't look at it. turns you to stone.

'I think all my anger and hate comes out in the music; that should be the way you channel these things. It's like, I don't go out and beat people up, I do it with my guitar.'

Max Cavalera

@base i remember there was a time you said you didn't care about Trump and had nothing to add to the conversation.
Had nothing to do with us if i recall.
Remember that! ;-)

yep. I'm full of tides and seasons. still holds pretty true though. I just like having a chat on here after a long day. even deigned to footy talk recently : ) gotta say, I miss @AW/@seeds' botany thread, coupla good looking clips @VJ's dropped on the boat thread I'm looking forward to. think he even posted a melting-rock-tech-esque thing about wave power (the other sort) today : ?

Btw, anyone remember a guy named Epstein? Whatever happened to that whacky old story. Looks like it just disappeared. How miraculous. Jesus really is a saviour.

basesix wrote:

yep. I'm full of tides and seasons. still holds pretty true though. I just like having a chat on here after a long day. even deigned to footy talk recently : )

yeah, it's a little on the side of hypocrisy to lend a strong opinion now though isn't it. Just remember thinking back then it was a little bit insulting to write those off that saw the warning signs early on.

haha, heading to bed, @SR. You knew exactly how I felt,
I just didn't deep dive into the circular blather -
More for me than because of any judgement of others.

Hmm.. fair enough.
Like always, no good/bad, just a little accountability in the fairness of play and substance of opinion.

well colour my astonishing strong opinion of 'gee, aren't they creating a polarised political landscape' as hypocrisy.. I give it all about 5% of what energy I have. Felt quite good today, the 5% I gave must have been uncharacteristically bootylicious. Night mate.

Gotta hand it to Burlz, disagree or agree, he's kept his stance throughout. A bit Charlie Kirkish, but he hasn't deviated from his position. As with CK i disagree with most of what he says, but he's stayed true to his cause and asked questions of others .As wrong as his views may appear to me, i do listen due to his unwavering dilligence, he's got his convictions. I respect a man with conviction. And knowing Burlz, he'd admit if he thought he'd made a mistake in his judgement....which doesn't appear to be the case....yet!! hehe. Carn Burlz!! Night Base.

southernraw wrote:

Good post @roke but fark me, let people create and postulate without fear of censorship. That's the point isn't it!? So far i have not seen one single person advocate the shooting. And that's bloody awesome on behalf of this community. A bunch of good folk, regardless of their reflections post political/non political assassination. And even saying that kinda puts you into the one or the other camp anyway. Go easy soldier. We're all just trying to work through reasona and logic and occassionally passion takes a hold, as we're all only human. But i've seen zero endorsement of what happened nor zero inflammaton nor incitement.
Always like your perspectives. Cheers.

Been enjoying reading a couple of these below the line threads of late Southern. Your contributions included. Wasn’t, and wouldn’t dare, suggest anyone on this forum should be shutting up. Mainly cos I like to read it. My post probably wasn’t clear on who I was referring to. Certainly not the SN contributors. Agree with you totally about the value and the standard of the debate on here. Well said.

Think I just wanted an excuse to post that song by Yarn, more than anything, cos I dig it.

Sincere apologies @roker for misinterpreting your post.
Been doing that a bit lately hey.
Some would say it's a pattern not just this week ;-)
Again, passion. It's dangerous and needs to be reeled in.
Thanks so much for your reply and clarifying that. I'm always all ears, even if they need constant cleaning out, which i'm aware of.
As for above posts about the news.
I agree in principle, and MSNBC cops alot for being too mainstream aligned, but at least they're trying in a time when media is too scared to speak out in fear of retaliation.
This is a powerful broadcast. Worth watching through for the newshosts thoughts and opinions.
I think they're bang on.
Cheers @roke. Go well you good thing.

A very good video on how CK operated when debating . Definitely sucks his followers into believing he’s the smartest guy in the room . Didn’t always work out that way .

southernraw wrote:

Good read @AndyM.
This point...
"It was a bit unusual that the attack was not against an elected official. Rarely have we seen political assassinations that are aimed at the nonprofit political landscape. Usually those people are not deemed important enough.

Secondly, and it’s something I see a lot in my research, political assassinations come in waves. We see that not only in the United States but other countries. I’ve looked at political assassinations in many democracies, and one of the things I see in a fairly consistent manner is that political assassinations create a process of escalation that encourages others on the extreme political spectrum to feel the need to retaliate. And that is my main concern. That this process creates legitimization and acceptance, that it provides the sense that this is an acceptable form of political action. This will not end here."

Is it too soon to talk about possible background persuasion yet. Shoot one of the loved ones, create extreme outrage, blame the other?? Which was my initial thoughts all along. But i do tend head straight into rabbit holes ;-) Is it a question worth asking though? Would anyone put it past Trump??