The Necessity of Reparation for Historic Injustices
cheers @Lachy, great post. Yep there's dozens of us who work as teachers on here, can't beat the lifestyle and if you're a people person it's pretty great.. (assuming you find a staff politics that works for you and a leadership that doesn't do long vacuous meetings or relentless PD).
Bit tongue in cheek, the ladies and PE, and who'd be a teacher thing ; )
In reality, @gsco usually does a lot of inadvertent convincing contrary to his cause. His love of identity politics stemming from his personal revelations shows a severe lack of imagination. I reckon if he did 12 months being valued in an Anangu community, he'd be championing their cause from the rooftops.
Lachlan Mckenzie wrote:I’ve literally never commented on a forum but felt the need to weigh in with some actual experience. I’m a secondary humanities teacher, among other subjexts. In year 7 students learn about Deep Time History which is entirely pre-colonisation. Actually a very interesting unit and discusses both landscapes and landforms before the Australian Continent, human migration and ‘cultural’ information that is very generic to Australia as a whole but doesn’t really go into tribal groups. In year 8 or 9 it goes into the forming of Australia as a nation which covers Frontier wars but this might amount to 1 or 2 weeks of content and goes into perspectives from both sides.
In addition to this we have a cross curriculum priority of “Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander history and culture” this is more flexible and allows us to put Indigenous perspectives into a range of topics, for example Indigenous diggers in WW2 and the 1967 referendum in Civics and Citizenship.
Most teachers are respectful and well meaning people who care about their students. They aren’t going to be trying to shame their students or make them hate their past and to suggest that is absolute stupidity. The Australian Curriculum is actually a pretty well thought out document and can be accessed freely by anyone. Before making garbage claims it might be a good idea to take a look. This same argument can be applied to the fear that schools are coaxing kids into gender identity crisis. It’s simply ridiculous to what happens on the ground.
*not a middle age white women or HPE dood.
https://www.australiancurriculum.edu.au/
Well said Lachlan.....
Thanks for the contribution
Good post Lachie.
Just in the balance of fairness, its true, at uni there are some real fuckwit lecturerers, and i reckin if woke really was a word, they'd walk in those boots.
But theyre a tiny minority.
Last semester during an online lecture tje middle aged female lecturer went on a rant about gender reveals and how wrong it was to give a baby the burden of a gender.
I was seething listening to it, more so because she brought her opinion into my learning. I ended up writing a post on the forum for all to see (see my word salads arent just confined to swellnet) and at the risk of failing the unit, as i was walking a fine line on grades, i told her it wasnt on, and not only that, she could be having a negative impact on impressionable young minds. She replied w a deflection..'we all get that one lecturer we dont gel with, and i guess that ones me". Ignored all my valid points...but i ended up getting good grades!! Haha. So in gsco and crews defence, yes they exist, but fark, theyre a minority and if you actually believed their schtick youd b fairly gullible alreadyband would b influenced easily through life. Just my own experience. Cheers
Thanks @basesix, yep great job when you find the right school. I couldn’t imagine finding a better one at the moment. To be fair there are lots of middle aged women and HPE guys, that stereotype is there for a reason, but most are trying their absolute hardest, some of those women are tough as nails.
Extreme Identify politics seems like an argument people use to either divert from something more important (I.e. politicians) or when they run out of or don’t have much legitimate content (I.e. @Southerns lecturer). Anyone else experienced this in that way or do you find it a legitimate topic?
fmd, you couldn't make this shit up. Not only is it leftards losing it but also shooting themselves in the foot.
Our resident lunatic progressive teachers in fact agree with Lachlan that the curriculum is well thought out and presents balanced coverage and multiple perspectives of world, Australian and indigenous history.
So SR's article criticising the curriculum, claiming that it doesn't present early Australian history, providing prescriptions of what early Australian history to teach, and suggesting that it should be compulsory and thus focused on over and above other aspects of history, is all nonsense.
Woke, lunatic liberal, batshit crazy insane nonsense.
Carry on loonies.
The only one losing it, regularly, is you old mate. You are so out of touch with real Australia and Australians. There’s probably more extreme right wing nuts like you running around than your perceived left loonies that you are so victimised by. Most of us walk away slowly, silently, when we encounter either.
Entertainment indeed @Stu.
haha, why are the cute ones always so stoopid?
gs-co wrote:fmd, you couldn't make this shit up. Not only is it leftards losing it but also shooting themselves in the foot.
Our resident lunatic progressive teachers in fact agree with Lachlan that the curriculum is well thought out and presents balanced coverage and multiple perspectives of world, Australian and indigenous history.
So SR's article criticising the curriculum, claiming that it doesn't present early Australian history, providing prescriptions of what early Australian history to teach, and suggesting that it should be compulsory and thus focused on over and above other aspects of history, is all nonsense.
Woke, lunatic liberal, batshit crazy insane nonsense.
Carry on loonies.
Nuance GSCO.
Look it up, and meditate on its meaning.
Btw theres an acknowledgement of country at the beginning of each lecture. I love it!! Makes me feel a part of something bigger and ancient in this countries history, and always gives me a moment to reflect personally. What a gift!
seeds wrote:The only one losing it, regularly, is you old mate. You are so out of touch with real Australia and Australians. There’s probably more extreme right wing nuts like you running around than your perceived left loonies that you are so victimised by. Most of us walk away slowly, silently, when we encounter either.
Entertainment indeed @Stu.
Sadly sometimes these types seem innocent enough..and then..bang.. Wieambilla...and we all say...ahh shit, probably should have seen that coming.
southernraw wrote:seeds wrote:The only one losing it, regularly, is you old mate. You are so out of touch with real Australia and Australians. There’s probably more extreme right wing nuts like you running around than your perceived left loonies that you are so victimised by. Most of us walk away slowly, silently, when we encounter either.
Entertainment indeed @Stu.Sadly sometimes these types seem innocent enough..and then..bang.. Wieambilla...and we all say...ahh shit, probably should have seen that coming.
Sadly they were teachers also. What a messed up story that was/is.
Yeah hectic @seeds.
seeds wrote:southernraw wrote:seeds wrote:The only one losing it, regularly, is you old mate. You are so out of touch with real Australia and Australians. There’s probably more extreme right wing nuts like you running around than your perceived left loonies that you are so victimised by. Most of us walk away slowly, silently, when we encounter either.
Entertainment indeed @Stu.Sadly sometimes these types seem innocent enough..and then..bang.. Wieambilla...and we all say...ahh shit, probably should have seen that coming.
Sadly they were teachers also. What a messed up story that was/is.
Key word "were", past tense and all that.
Good point Blackers.
All the teachers on here haven’t given in yet. Yet!
Jokes obviously.
It dumbfounds me how educated rational minds can become so warped.
gs-co wrote:fmd, you couldn't make this shit up. Not only is it leftards losing it but also shooting themselves in the foot.
Our resident lunatic progressive teachers in fact agree with Lachlan that the curriculum is well thought out and presents balanced coverage and multiple perspectives of world, Australian and indigenous history.
So SR's article criticising the curriculum, claiming that it doesn't present early Australian history, providing prescriptions of what early Australian history to teach, and suggesting that it should be compulsory and thus focused on over and above other aspects of history, is all nonsense.
Woke, lunatic liberal, batshit crazy insane nonsense.
Carry on loonies.
mm, it's an interesting post, compelling stuff.. hard to believe you are good looking as well as having acute and astute brilliance. I notice the double returns are creeping in again, the use of 'fascinating', and the disappearance of @sypkan, yet again. lots of food for thought there. I guess the take-away from your post, @gsco, is that keeping constant dialogues open is key while understanding that everyone has a viewpoint.. respecting people with first hand experiences above those who don't is important.. trying to explain the human animal and society with a series of truths in a zero sum game is a life ambition for some, and creates a narrative for some amphibians as to why the whole world doesn't stop and clap admiringly as they disappear up their own cloaca..
Hiccups wrote:what the hell is going on with this gs-co fella? Are they on the level?
I like what you did there.
Casper the friendly Sypkan is a triple return sort of apparition.
blackers wrote:Hiccups wrote:what the hell is going on with this gs-co fella? Are they on the level?
I like what you did there.
Haha, took me a moment. Clever chap. And also you, the first chap to pick up on it @ Blackers
Uni assignment i did a few years ago. This is my take on things. I'm sure this will ruffle many feathers. I hope so.
Love Blue Diamond x
The Necessity of Reparation for Historic Injustices
Introduction – Compensatory Justice
Disparities between the standards of living of humans on this planet have long been a part of our history on this planet. From the wealthy nations of the West to the developing and undeveloped nations on this globe, the diversity in the quality of life when viewed from a moral standpoint are without a doubt grossly unfair.
In this paper I will look at why historic injustices do require some form of reparation. I take a strong stance that we are more obliged to solve current injustices than to provide reparation for every act of injustice in the past. In doing this I will first investigate the historic injustice of the Aboriginal people of Australia and I will look at the argument that they are entitled to some form of reparation and why.
I will incoroporate some interesting views from Jeremy Waldron, Robert Nozick and others which will help me slowly build to my conclusion that reparation should be in the form of Non Indigenous Australians surrendering some of our priveleges as a form of reparation.
Historic Injustices to Indigenous Australians:
Australia the continent was well inhabited for many years long before white settlement. It is commonly known that in 1788 Australia was colonised as a country under the rule of the British Empire, with total contempt for the fact that it was already inhabited by a native indigenous race of people.
The way the original inhabitants have been treated, including forced assimilation, execution, stolen families and not even allowed to be recognised as citizens for a large part of white Australia’s history are also well known facts. (Poole, 1999,pp114-142)
There exists now a situation where there is a large divide between Aboriginal and non Aboriginal Australian’s that can be traced back to the moment Australia was invaded by English settlers and the brutal and unfair treatment that has followed.
So at this point now, in 2013 what is the just and fair way to make amends for past actions?
I would argue that a moderate to large amount of reparation is overdue for this nation of people, the Aboriginal people. But there are many challenges to this view point especially that of how much reparation, and what sort of compensation.
Past injustices or present suffering?
One of the questions raised in an issue like this is whether it is better to provide compensation or reparation for past deeds, which have already been done in a previous generation and cannot be changed, or whether it is better to now provide assistance to those who are suffering in their current situations and consider that as a form of moral duty.
To understand this we need to delve a little deeper into this issue and hear some differing viewpoints.
Firstly we need to understand what the best way to provide reparation. How do we judge what is the best way of giving back and how much? Jeremy Waldron states “The historic record has a fragility that consists, …in the sheer contingency of what happened in the past” (Waldron,1992,p5 )
This is saying that we can’t trace every single injustice back to the original act therefore reparation for every act would be almost impossible because it would ultimately be guess work.
In this statement he has an objection from Robert Nozick who believes it is in fact possible to address this problem by “changing the present so that it resembles how the past would have looked had the injustice not taken place” (McKenzie, 2013)
This would be a way to ultimately provide maximum reparation, but is it the correct approach? I believe this is a fairly radical approach, although it does have some merits in the fact it would be working in a positive way for indigenous people, I don’t think it is entirely the right way to deal with these issues but it is on the right track.
Waldron argues that it is based on too many unknowns. “The status of counterfactual reasoning about the exercising of human reasoning of human freedom is unclear”(Waldron 1993,p10)
Which leaves the question somewhat open about the sort of reparation that is required, but provides one clear answer to the key question. Both agree that yes, reparation to some extent is required. But how much and in what form?
Another philosopher who leans more towards Waldron’s views is Kymlicka. He is somewhat more straightforward in his assessment that property rights in particular for Aboriginals would create “massive unfairness” and also he maintains the argument “Aboriginal rights must be grounded in concerns about equality and contemporary disadvantage. (McKenzie, 2013) I agree with both these views but I don’t think they provide any active solutions.
The Solution?
So if its not handing back all of Australia’s land to the original inhabitants that is the most appropriate way to deal with past injustices, then what is?
I look at the current country I grew up in, as a white Australian. I ask myself why I never had Aboriginal friends growing up, no understanding of Aboriginal culture and why my basic understanding of Indigenous Australians is mostly 200 years old. I look at our flag, a symbol of a nation that stole a country from its original inhabitants, with no recognition of the Indigenous people at all on it. I see that Australia considered Indigenous people as less than people until only 40 years ago and I see the way that Indigenous Australians live a completely separate life to the way of life I know as an Australian. I see that the only indigenous politician I am aware of is a former Olympian and it is because of this fact of her sporting status that I know this. I see no collective power or representation of Indigenous Australians and I see non Indigenous Australians,( a culture built on a history of stealing a land and mistreating its people) still taking, taking as much out of this land as they can, with little to no regard of sharing or giving to the original inhabitants. I see a government that says lots of words about ‘closing the gap’ and bringing the living standards of non- indigenous and indigenous Australians closer together, but apart from nice words, there is no conviction, no follow through, just assimilation , and all that still remains are injustices.
As stated by Sparrow, “Continuity gives rise to responsibility on part of present generations of Australians for our history”.(McKenzie,2013). Although deeds happened in the past beyond our control, what we do now to either ignore, or rectify these issues will reflect on us in history. So if we choose to do nothing, we are contributing to the history of the mistreatment of non- indigenous Australians. And this is simply unacceptable in my opinion.
Conclusion
So what is fair? I believe that the way forward is a surrendering of some of our privileges as non- indigenous Australians. The simple fact is it was morally wrong without a doubt what has happened in the past. And it is also morally wrong without a doubt to ignore these facts and not offer some form of reparation in the present. But how much?
I think that going back to Robert Nozick’s argument is a start. I think Nozick is wrong to make the present resemble the past in every aspect. But I do think that it would be reasonable to restore some aspects of the way things should be. The things that happened in the past were out of our control and we can’t go back to changing the way things were. But we could change the way things are.
For some examples. Why not give at least 50% of political power to indigenous people? It surely would be a fair thing to do considering this is their country. Media control. 50 percent. Industry. Realestate. The list goes on. Why do we not acknowledge the indigenous people on our flag, or better still use their flag? Why is Australia still a part of the Commonwealth when it serves little purpose to any of us and serves as a constant reminder to Indigenous Australians that they are still controlled by the original invaders. These to me are fairly simple reparations that would have minimal impact on Australia as a whole. Perhaps, it would alter the way we live but I think it is our responsibility, morally to forfeit some of our privileges for the greater good. Basically a little bit goes a long way.
In closing, it is a fact that a huge injustice occurred to the Indigenous population and suffering continues to this day. There is no easy solution to such a burden of pain. I believe the only solutions are for the non- Indigenous population to take responsibility and sacrifice our own way of life to bring about an overall equality. Sacrifice is not an easy word. But it all comes down to right and wrong. We are in a position to give, in this current generation. What are we so scared to lose, that was never ours in the first place??
Bibliography
McKenzie,C.”Prof” (2013), Lecture, Historic Injustices and Indigenous Rights, Macquarie University
Poole, R. (1999). Nation and Identity.Routledge, London, pp.114-142
Waldron,J. (1992). ‘Superseding Historic Injustice’. Ethics, 103 (1), 4-28
References
Poole, R. (1999). Nation and Identity.Routledge, London, pp.114-142
Waldron,J. (1992). ‘Superseding Historic Injustice’. Ethics, 103 (1), 4-28