Dropping swell and deteriorating conditions

Ben Matson picture
Ben Matson (thermalben)

South East Queensland and Northern New South Wales Surf Forecast by Ben Matson (issued Monday 3rd November)

Best DaysTues: strong but easing south swell across Northern NSW - aim for the early morning for the best winds (don't expect much north of Byron). Wed: small mix of swells with a brief window of good winds early (again, don't expect much north of Byron). 

Recap: Quite a mixed bag in recent days. Strengthening N/NE winds built a local windswell across the Northern NSW coast on Saturday, whilst a S’ly change improved conditions and added a secondary short range swell on Sunday. However, surf size remained very small in SE Qld. A new S’ly groundswell has built across the coast today but - in similarity to last week’s south swell - it’s not showing up everywhere, and even some of the wave buoys (I’m looking at you, Crowdy Head!) are not detecting as much energy as would be expected (especially seeing that this south swell came in bigger than expected in southern NSW). We’ve also see a small short range E/SE swell across SE Qld today in response to a strengthening ridge through the southern Coral Sea. However it’s not showing much quality, especially with a dominant SE airstream.

This week (Nov 4-7)

The surf outlook for the rest of the week is fairly simple - from Tuesday onwards wave heights will trend downwards, and conditions will generally deteriorate as the northerly regime redevelops across the coast.

But, for Tuesday's outlook - the pick of the forecast period, by any stretch - there’s actually some difficulty right from the outset, as it’s hard to estimate just how much size we’ll see in the water early morning.

Based on current surfcam observations and erratic buoy data, I’d usually be tempted to pull back on Tuesday’s size estimates. However with southern NSW pulling in some really strong sets this afternoon (in the 6ft+ range), and the trend still holding steady, I’m more inclined to hold true to the existing model guidance that suggests 4-6ft waves at exposed south facing beaches across Northern NSW. 

Under this scenario, we'll obviously see smaller surf at beaches not open to the south, and locations north of Byron Bay will also see much less of this southerly swell (perhaps 2ft+ across most of the Gold and Sunshine Coast, being a mix of southerly groundswell and short range E/SE windswell).

Wind wise, we’re looking at freshening nor’easter throughout the day (across Northern NSW) so the early morning will offer the only real opportunities to capitalise on a brief period of light NW winds. Winds are likely to remain moderate easterly across SE Qld all day, so it’s unlikely that we’ll see anything amazing at all on Tuesday north of the border.

Strengthening NE winds on Wednesday will then accompany a steady drop in south swell (early 3ft sets at south facing beaches in Northern NSW, much smaller later), and a small peaky concurrent NE windswell.

An approaching southerly change is expected to reach the southern NSW coast early Thursday morning but current model guidance suggests it won’t influence much further north than about Port Macquarie - and not until the afternoon at the earliest - so NE winds are likely to persist about the Far North Coast and SE Qld region through the rest of the week. 

As for potential swell sources for the second half of the working week - there really aren’t many. The main source will be the local NE fetch off the coast but even that won’t be particularly strong, and any swell it generates will mainly favour the Lower Mid North Coast. So, late Thursday afternoon may have some options south of Port Macquarie (or, at a pinch Coffs Harbour) in the lee of the southerly, but otherwise I wouldn’t hold your breath for anything amazing.

This weekend (Nov 8-9)

Nothing of any great interest at this stage. We’re probably looking at peaky options at exposed beaches around 1-2ft, with freshening northerly winds both days. A developing ridge across the central/northern Tasman Sea mid-late week may supply some energy out of the east but I can’t see much more than a couple of feet. Let’s hope Wednesday’s update improves on this outlook, because right now the weekend looks like being better spent away from the coast.

Long term (Nov 10 onwards)

Looks like we have another succession of reasonable swell generating fronts due through the southern Tasman Sea from Sunday into Monday. This should kick up another couple of days of decent southerly swell for exposed south facing beaches across the Northern NSW coast (Monday to Wednesday). I’ll update this in more detail on Wednesday. 

Comments

Sheepdog's picture
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Sheepdog Tuesday, 4 Nov 2014 at 1:23pm

Re' "this weekend" and "long term".... I'm not as pessimistic, Ben... A really good chance of a slightly above average east/ ene swell from the New Cal' region....

donweather's picture
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donweather Tuesday, 4 Nov 2014 at 9:32pm

SD please advise "slightly above average" heights.

thermalben's picture
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thermalben Wednesday, 5 Nov 2014 at 5:59am

So more than 'a couple of feet' SD? In any case (and I assume you're referencing just SE Qld and not Northern NSW), excluding Saturday we're looking at a three day northerly period (Sun-Tues) so options will be limited anyway.

Otherwise, the latest models have a strong ridge building Wednesday and an increase in S/SE swell but that's still a long time away.

And that system developing south of Fiji over the weekend - at this stage its eastwards track will severely limit swell prospects for the East Coast IMO. There's potential for the trough/low to slow down early next week (NE of New Zealand) but we wouldn't see any swell until later next week.

mitchvg's picture
mitchvg's picture
mitchvg Tuesday, 4 Nov 2014 at 9:14pm

Ease up turbo, only on the +160 or so charts so far. Over frothed on these myself before anyway :P

serendipity1960's picture
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serendipity1960 Wednesday, 5 Nov 2014 at 6:44am

Thanks for the heads up Sheepdog. You and I know a little spot on the Sunny coast thats worth checking in a northerly.A bit of south in the swell would be better though.It's a desperate time of year up here, so any chance is better than nothing. When the forecast is 2 ft , the surf is usually uncrowded.

Sheepdog's picture
Sheepdog's picture
Sheepdog Wednesday, 5 Nov 2014 at 8:16am

Ben, Don, Mitch... Just said I'm not as pessimistic, as In "because right now the weekend looks like being better spent away from the coast", and no mention of east swell in "long term".... That's all.....

Anyway, a picture paints a thousand words...

"we're looking at a three day northerly period (Sun-Tues) so options will be limited anyway"........... Sunday morning looks glassy to me..... Country markets away from the coast, or 3 foot beachies.... Tough choice... ;)
Mitch, +160???? Get a grip, boy..... :p

And yes, this system has the chance to produce something more substantial as it moves east and intensifies below Fiji..... So for November, I'd say Sunday onwards has the very good chance of being above average.....

mitchvg's picture
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mitchvg Wednesday, 5 Nov 2014 at 11:19am

Good on ya, post a screen grab from today. Haha nah but seriously what about 'brew time'...

Sheepdog's picture
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Sheepdog Wednesday, 5 Nov 2014 at 1:48pm

I would've posted last night but I was asleep......... Re' brew time - Well there's already a 15 to 20k tradewind out there now - active sea state - fetch compresses during Thursday as tropical muck pushes south against NZ west coast high - early Friday in the slot..... Sunday morning arrival...... 3 foot.... Fun angle..... Early glass..... As Don said, shame about morning 2m tide, cos ene angle good for points.... Seabreeze to coincide with turning tide - 9.30 to 10am.....

mick-free's picture
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mick-free Wednesday, 5 Nov 2014 at 8:21am

yes go sheepdog.....will be up in qld working!!!! hows that easterly swell for east coast NZ!!

Sheepdog's picture
Sheepdog's picture
Sheepdog Wednesday, 5 Nov 2014 at 8:37am

Yeah, got friends in Gizzy..... And hows the "dead area" of no wind on the east coast of south Island..... Lonely coast that one, I bet.....

serendipity1960......... That's what the sunny coast has over the goldy.... Options.... ;)

mitchvg's picture
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mitchvg Wednesday, 5 Nov 2014 at 11:26am

Admittedly I didn't look at the detail of the charts cos I could feel a severe case of 'SE of NZ pressure depression' induced depression coming on.

donweather's picture
donweather's picture
donweather Wednesday, 5 Nov 2014 at 8:41am

I'll be up the SC this weekend and Monday SD so I'll let ya know how ya 3ft comes off. I can't see much more than 2ft at this stage but I'm hoping you're right (for once)!!! ;)

donweather's picture
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donweather Wednesday, 5 Nov 2014 at 8:44am

MAssive morning high tides are gonna make it rather challenging also.

thermalben's picture
thermalben's picture
thermalben Wednesday, 5 Nov 2014 at 9:29am

SD, you've also gotta take Monday's forecast into context - with regards to the weekend, it's a general outlook for the entire SE Qld and Northern NSW region.

On Monday (when it was issued), Sunday was still six full days away so to specify specific heights and windows of opportunity at selected coasts at such a long lead time - in a dubious synoptic environment - isn't really worthwhile (been there, done that many times over the last thirteen years). Things will often change over the following days which requires changing the initial thoughts (and planning, if anyone had take the notes on board).

Therefore, under these kinds of circumstances (ie without either a quality groundswell or a prediominantly favourable airstream on the cards) my view is it's a much safer bet to generalise the surf outlook for the weekend, and then hone in on the specifics on Wednesday, which can be further refined on Friday.

As for the long term easterly swell prospects - they really weren't on the charts on Monday; only starting to appear Tuesday and seem to be a little more visible in this morning's runs (although I still don't think we'll see anything amazing, unless the models about-face quite a bit).

But again - all of these swells are hardly 'epic swell events' that require detailed discussion at long range. If I were to mention every possible long term MSLP anomaly in each and every model run, I'd be writing a bloody thesis three times as week!

Sheepdog's picture
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Sheepdog Wednesday, 5 Nov 2014 at 9:39am

That's all well and good.... But I'd still rather go for a swim in 1 foot onshore muck than endure a morning at the Yandina market with my wife...... All the sunny coast surfer's wives snuck online and read your "better away from the coast" line..... You just don't realise what you've done............ 5000 hungover guys walking aimlessly next their chicks, looking at nick nacks and batik skirts, or visiting inlaws in Brisbane.... I hope you are proud of yourself, Ben..... :p

thermalben's picture
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thermalben Wednesday, 5 Nov 2014 at 9:41am

Well, our internal marketing did show that there was a large untapped market of surfers' wives, 'specially north of Brisbane. So we're simply just satisfying their requirements.

Sheepdog's picture
Sheepdog's picture
Sheepdog Wednesday, 5 Nov 2014 at 9:46am

lol.... As long as that's all your "satisfying"..... Cheers....

donweather's picture
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donweather Wednesday, 5 Nov 2014 at 10:53am

"If I were to mention every possible long term MSLP anomaly in each and every model run, I'd be writing a bloody thesis three times as week!"

Isn't that we bloody pay you for Ben!!!! ;)

thermalben's picture
thermalben's picture
thermalben Wednesday, 5 Nov 2014 at 11:02am

Well, it's sometimes counter productive and confusing to do so.

The models often spin up all kinds of 'potential' swell scenarios that disappear the next day so it's better to go with gut feeling. And in this case, my gut on Monday was telling me that the greater SE Qld/NNSW coast was going to be a couple of feet under a northerly flow for most of the weekend. 

But, I'll refine that gut feeling this afternoon :)

donweather's picture
donweather's picture
donweather Wednesday, 5 Nov 2014 at 11:03am

Also Ben, EC has been progging something in our eastern swell window for some time....at least since Sunday/Monday forecast charts this week. Agree they've been bouncing around a bit to it's exact location and intensity/time in swell window etc, but they've certainly been forecasting some swell in our eastern quadrant for a little while now (I'm talking about the fetch occuring later this weekend/early next week).

thermalben's picture
thermalben's picture
thermalben Wednesday, 5 Nov 2014 at 11:10am

Yeah there's been *something* on the long term charts for a while (I actually mentioned it in last Friday's notes) however unless they're significant swell generating systems - of which none are stacking up as such thus far - it's really not worth going into too much detail.

The whole purpose of the forecast notes is to provide 'useful information' and right now there's nothing useful to glean from the model data for long term surf prospects in SE Qld or Northern NSW. As is very common at this time of the year anyway.

mitchvg's picture
mitchvg's picture
mitchvg Wednesday, 5 Nov 2014 at 11:33am

I recall you mentioning over autumn sometime, being frustrated by these kind of forecasts slowly dwindling away with each run, no? I'm surprised you're not dismissive of it.

Sheepdog's picture
Sheepdog's picture
Sheepdog Wednesday, 5 Nov 2014 at 9:29am

What part of the sunny coast, don? South, middle, north?

donweather's picture
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donweather Wednesday, 5 Nov 2014 at 10:55am

Mooloolaba, but i'm more than prepared to travel to find some good uncrowded high tide banks!!!!

Sheepdog's picture
Sheepdog's picture
Sheepdog Wednesday, 5 Nov 2014 at 11:37am

Well... I'd tell you where but I've learnt my lesson........... ;)

donweather's picture
donweather's picture
donweather Wednesday, 5 Nov 2014 at 12:09pm

I don't mind you telling SD, just not on a public forum. Feel free to PM me!!!! ;) (Do PM's still exist on SN?)

thermalben's picture
thermalben's picture
thermalben Wednesday, 5 Nov 2014 at 12:11pm

Nah PMs don't exist at the moment - but we're looking to add them in soon.

donweather's picture
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donweather Wednesday, 5 Nov 2014 at 12:13pm

Well that sux!!! How's SD gonna give me all his secret spots then!!!!

Ben, can you send SD my email addy?

thermalben's picture
thermalben's picture
thermalben Wednesday, 5 Nov 2014 at 12:13pm

Oh, I'm sure he'll offer some cryptic clues :)

donweather's picture
donweather's picture
donweather Wednesday, 5 Nov 2014 at 12:15pm

I'm sure he will, but bugger me, they're even too cryptic for me sometimes!!!

Johno's picture
Johno's picture
Johno Wednesday, 5 Nov 2014 at 12:00pm

The surf was terrible on the northern end of the gold coast this morning, barely a wave to ride! The only people who looked to be scoring were the SUPS.

Sheepdog's picture
Sheepdog's picture
Sheepdog Wednesday, 5 Nov 2014 at 12:27pm

Well, having travelled all that way don, you probably wont want to go too far from M/bah... You'll probably just hang around banana rocket, or south of there.......
But you could call in and see Clives dinosaurs...... Or drink beers on the beach just south of there.. I always take ma' cooler when I do that.....
. And of course Stu has a creek named after him where he's allowed to walk his dog without a leash..... Then there's the original concert..... Good pie shop there too...
And lastly, if all else fails, just enjoy the sunshine..... hehehehe......

fitzroy-21's picture
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fitzroy-21 Wednesday, 5 Nov 2014 at 1:45pm

Hahaha, sometimes you crack me up SD. Gold :)

donweather's picture
donweather's picture
donweather Wednesday, 5 Nov 2014 at 2:30pm

Ok, thanks SD....but can ya please email me some of the secret spots as you've just told the whole SC where to go on Sunday now!!!

Sheepdog's picture
Sheepdog's picture
Sheepdog Wednesday, 5 Nov 2014 at 2:51pm

Nothing channel 7 or 9 wont do on the Friday night surf report for the whole of SEQ, anyway.....
And those who miss it on tv will always tune into 106.5fm and listen to spinksy - http://tandemsurfandsport.com.au/?p=7063
4520 surfers get his report direct through facebook....... I wonder if 4520 sunnycoast surfers are reading this thread?

Anyway, don, most of the housewives have been told to spend the weekend away from the beach..... I think it's a conspiracy... Ben wrote this to thin the crowds for you and Mick................. It's a disgrace......... ;p

donweather's picture
donweather's picture
donweather Wednesday, 5 Nov 2014 at 2:32pm

And if ya want my opinion, I think the massive spring tides this weekend are gonna play havoc with the swell sizes across alot of those beaches you've just named above.

Sheepdog's picture
Sheepdog's picture
Sheepdog Wednesday, 5 Nov 2014 at 2:56pm

Yeah, possibly.... But it's November..... Any swell is good swell on the sunny coast....

mcsc's picture
mcsc's picture
mcsc Wednesday, 5 Nov 2014 at 5:19pm

... might be worth a look first thing tmrw on sunny coast. By November's standards at least

freeride76's picture
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freeride76 Wednesday, 5 Nov 2014 at 7:46pm

those spring tides can work with you or against you. if u get the drift Don.

donweather's picture
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donweather Wednesday, 5 Nov 2014 at 9:33pm

I hear ya Steve but it's tough when I'm not a local to know where the spring tides are gonna work with me. Joys of being a local!!!

serendipity1960's picture
serendipity1960's picture
serendipity1960 Wednesday, 5 Nov 2014 at 9:41pm

Hey Ben. Why is the SE QLD & NTH NSW forecast always the last cab off the rank ?
W.A. was posted hours ago.

thermalben's picture
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thermalben Thursday, 6 Nov 2014 at 9:36am

Our forecasts are done by two people (myself and Craig), of which I produce two forecast notes - and Sydney's just been an easier report to do first because of the way various swell windows operate. Unfortunately the last few weeks have seen a series of unexpected issues pop up right whilst I've been preparing the notes (yesty arvo, our Newcastle surfcam went down during the heavy thunderstorm period) which required immediate attention - and delayed things for a few hours. Fortunately, Craig isn't randomly interrupted as much as I am during the day which means his forecasts (Vis, SA, Tas, WA) are usually produced at the same time each day. Sorry for the inconvenience - I'll endeavour to prioritise the forecast notes as much as possible, but it's difficult being a small team.

donweather's picture
donweather's picture
donweather Thursday, 6 Nov 2014 at 1:51pm

Sounds like ya might need some help Ben!!! ;)

serendipity1960's picture
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serendipity1960 Thursday, 6 Nov 2014 at 7:22pm

I know where you are coming from Ben. I've been running my own small business for the last 30 years. You guys do a great job and I rely on your forecasts to plan my mid week surf trips. I was wondering why you don't use use the 2 hour time difference from east to west to your advantage and do QLD before W.A ? Just a thought.... I sort of guessed there must have been a spanner in the works. Those cams must be a full time headache for you.