Andrew Kidman: Twenty years after Litmus

Stu Nettle picture
Stu Nettle (stunet)
Talking Heads

414617863a4e032ac600cfe11eed3497.jpgTo fully appreciate Litmus the viewer must do more than sit and watch. Understanding historical context is equally as important. In 1995, surfing, especially here in Australia, was hidebound by media gatekeepers and design myopia.

Into this cloistered environment, Andrew Kidman, Jon Frank, and Mark Sutherland released Litmus expanding the notion of what surfing could be. By showcasing the lifestyles and surfing of Derek Hynd, Wayne Lynch and others they opened a door to a generation of surfers who suspected that surfing could be bigger and more profound than how it was being presented.

Context also helps to illustrate how changing technology meant Litmus was a product of its age. It was a film made when ideas could be slowly explored and developed.

Swellnet spoke to Andrew Kidman on the twentieth anniversary of Litmus.

Swellnet:What format did Litmus first come out in?
Andrew Kidman: It came out as a VHS. That was the first format.

How many of those did you press?
I think 500. I think that was the smallest amount. I don't think you could do less than 500.

Back in the day it was much harder to make a film...
Yeah, I don't know about that. I think it might've been easier to make a film.

You don't think technology was more expensive and harder to access?
Yeah they were, but there were more ideas....today it's really hard to make a good film because there are so many people making them. There are so many people trying to reflect ideas that it's really hard to have a unique voice.

Whereas back when we did it we had ideas and nobody even knew what we were doing. And no-one cared what were were doing. I think that made it easer to make a film, you know what I mean?

You think it's harder to be original these days?
Yeah it feels that way to me. Everywhere you turn someone else is trying to cover it, or someone else has already shot that angle. Digital photography doesn't help things because everybody can do it now.

Once upon a time Jon Frank's photography was incredibly unique, you know, but now people who've seen it can use digital photography to replicate it. It's not expensive, you put in a bit of time and you can do it. It's quick and you can get a result. It's hard to be unique these days I think.

You spent a year filming and making Litmus, how was it received?
It wasn’t received well here...but some people got it. That was the nice thing, that you knew that the people that liked it got it. The mainstream surf industry didn't get it. It got slagged off.

How long did it take to sell those 500 VHS copies?
I think I've still got them (laughs) What was happening though was format changes and we were right in the middle of it. So I've still got VHS copies of it.

Really, it got picked up in America before anything happened with it here. Steve Pezman really liked it. We couldn’t get any press here so it just fell by the wayside, but Steve put an article in The Surfers Journal and people over there wanted to see it. After that it got distributed by Ira Opper and Sex Wax. So we got traction in the US and Europe.

Have you thought about why it fell flat here in Australia?
Australia was so enamoured by the whole Momentum-era of surfing that people just didn't get it. The magazines just didn't say anything about it. And you know how it works: if you get good press people want to see it, if you get bad press - or no press - then people just don't care.

I'm recalling some cartoons that Sutho wrote for Gonad Man about Aussie surf culture at the time that included some very caustic observations.
No doubt. It's interesting though, 'cos I think the underground in Australian culture has always been really rich, really interesting. If you look at someone like Derek Hynd, he's an interesting character...I mean he's always been interesting to me, from the time I first met him as a kid.

Looking back, you guys didn't miss any marks: Occy went on to be world champ, Derek Hynd to Friction Free Finless, Ireland is now a surf hotspot.
Yeah...I'm not sure I feel great about all of those. In saying that, I'm good friends with Mickey Smith and Ben Howard, and Litmus was a big influence on those guys. To see what those guys have done – Mickey with his films, Ben with his music - is pretty good.

mi0003898547_1.jpgSpeaking of the music. The whole Litmus soundtrack was pre-recorded, right?
Yep, all the music. We went into a studio and recorded 35 songs in one day. We had the basis to a soundtrack before we had a film. We knew how we wanted the film to feel so we went in there and made the music first.

The effect was wonderful. As viewers watched the surfing for the first time they also heard the music for the first time. The two became intertwined. In that regard it follows the tradition of Morning Of The Earth.
For sure. Totally. Except for Morning Of The Earth they had some of the best musicians in the country and we had some of the worst (laughs).

I don't know, I guess we just believed in what we wanted to do and we knew how we wanted it to feel like.

It's pretty cool though, you know when I do shows now someone might yell out "Green Hornet"!

That's unreal. The Morning Of The Earth soundtrack can stand alone and it appears the Litmus soundtrack is heading the same way, which says something about how great the music is, despite you being self-deprecating.
I'm not being self-deprecating, I know how bad we were. It's interesting that the record company in New York came across it and want to release it [New York record label Mexican Summer have just packaged a box set of books and LPs]

The lasting legacy of the film, at least for me, is the board-hopping from Derek Hynd. Does it feel like that for you?
I don't know, I think the film had an overall feel, it wasn’t just one person. I mean there were a lot of different things going on in that film, people like Wayne Lynch, Tom Curren, Terry Fitzgerald, or Derek, they all had their own ideas about what surfing could be and they all pursued it in their own way.

Surfing is a big idea, and every surfer has a personal relationship with it. Litmus showed that you could develop that relationship with your surfing and it wasn’t just one dimensional. Maybe that's why it resonated with people.

And also, when Derek surfs, it's something that the average surfer could access. Does that make sense?

Yeah...
When I started hanging out with Derek he was exploring those different kinds of boards, and I was doing similar things – I was messing around with different boards too. And then he had a whole other take on what a quiver could look like. It sort of just became this endless pursuit really.

I think that's...in fact, I'm sure that's, why it resonated with people. Same with Wayne Lynch wanting to escape, just find some solitude and some waves to himself, because that's what most surfers want to do.

You've made a few great films post-Litmus. Do you feel they were just extensions of Litmus?
They all are. I was just trying to reflect what happened in those years after Litmus. Glass Love was definitely an extension of Litmus, it showed shapers like Neal Purchase Junior, and shaping is so important to surfing, it's another relationship that can be developed. You know, you can get in on that personal level of what the shaper is trying to experience.

At the start of this conversation you mentioned that it's hard for young filmmakers to have new ideas, yet you've managed to do that with Glass Love and Lost In The Ether.
Yeah but one of those films took me ten years to make! (laughs)...the other took another, I don't know, five years to make. I struggled through those films. The reality is you can work hard on certain things and then suddenly someone puts something up on the internet and undercuts you. Just like that you lose your point of uniqueness. It's really hard.

I'm in the throes of another film, but can I realistically get it out before someone shoots something and gets it up on the internet? People shoot stuff and put it on the internet that afternoon.

Care to share what the next film will be about?
I don't even know for sure. I've got ideas but it's such a complex process. Like you said, it's easy to access technology but it's harder to make a good film.

To purchase Litmus click here.
(Homepage photo by Cyrus Sutton)

Comments

stunet's picture
stunet's picture
stunet Tuesday, 13 Oct 2015 at 4:18pm

dangler's picture
dangler's picture
dangler Tuesday, 13 Oct 2015 at 7:48pm

Missed it in 1995 as a grommet, but was lucky enough to watch it 2002 on my way to Ireland for the first time and for this reason it was the Joel Fitz section that is burnt in my brain. Amazing to think that everyone knows how good Ireland is now and yet even in 2002 it was (mostly) under the radar.

Holdfast's picture
Holdfast's picture
Holdfast Tuesday, 13 Oct 2015 at 8:30pm

I ate my cereal to Litmus every morning in the mid nineties and I carried meat and saved every cent I had to travel a similar route ( with a few diversions). My mum could sing you the songs from that soundtrack! I got to surf all of the magic left handers in Eire and travel the world when most people didn't use the Internet (or credit cards) ,because of Litmus . Thanks AK.

davetherave's picture
davetherave's picture
davetherave Tuesday, 13 Oct 2015 at 9:27pm
Holdfast wrote:

I ate my cereal to Litmus every morning in the mid nineties and I carried meat and saved every cent I had to travel a similar route ( with a few diversions). My mum could sing you the songs from that soundtrack! I got to surf all of the magic left handers in Eire and travel the world when most people didn't use the Internet (or credit cards) ,because of Litmus . Thanks AK.

no greater compliment than that to change another beings life so fantasically awesome is truly wonderful stuff, thanks mate, u r a highly evolved being or what i would term, a good bloke.

trippergreenfeet's picture
trippergreenfeet's picture
trippergreenfeet Tuesday, 13 Oct 2015 at 9:33pm

Picked up a copy of Litmus on VHS from Vidlers in 95, must have been one of that first 500...was a revelation at the time. I was sharing a house with the WA Black Flys rep at the time and him and his ilk were the Momentum obsessed crowd, searching for soul but doing nothing more than stabbing, and punting in the dark.

owgoodaquads's picture
owgoodaquads's picture
owgoodaquads Wednesday, 14 Oct 2015 at 7:42am

Good memories. Great film. Still got my VHS copy, but no machine, and the book/magazine, which has to be treated carefully after years of thumbing through (20 obviously). Certainly was a unique take on surfing back then. Love it.

stunet's picture
stunet's picture
stunet Wednesday, 14 Oct 2015 at 9:22am

Same, still got my VHS copy and the 'Litmus' magazine. And while on topic, I've still go the Gonad Man cartoon collection somewhere.

Blowin's picture
Blowin's picture
Blowin Wednesday, 14 Oct 2015 at 9:26am

Same.

trippergreenfeet's picture
trippergreenfeet's picture
trippergreenfeet Wednesday, 14 Oct 2015 at 9:55am

Unfortunately my tape and mag were lost in a house fire a couple of years back...lost a great collection of surf related gear then.

Blowin's picture
Blowin's picture
Blowin Wednesday, 14 Oct 2015 at 8:14am

Great flick.

The Occy section was literally perfect.

Tim Baker's picture
Tim Baker's picture
Tim Baker Wednesday, 14 Oct 2015 at 9:32pm

I'm not sure it's entirely true it got no press in Oz. I seem to recall writing a fairly rave review in ASL at the time. "If it was shot in 16 mm it would be a masterpiece," I think we're my words. Probably underestimated its enduring legacy though. Nothing but respect and admiration for Ank Jon and Sutho and their crew.

davetherave's picture
davetherave's picture
davetherave Thursday, 15 Oct 2015 at 7:40am

Tim, look up Stuart Wissing, I think you will find something very special and unique to write about surfboard design. I really think you will dig Wiz's innovation and perspective.

wingnut2443's picture
wingnut2443's picture
wingnut2443 Saturday, 17 Oct 2015 at 1:29pm
davetherave wrote:

Tim, look up Stuart Wissing, I think you will find something very special and unique to write about surfboard design. I really think you will dig Wiz's innovation and perspective.

He does some awesome stuff - hate to glass, or sand 'em though!

For those interested, here's a link to his facebook page for his surfboard "brand" - HARDDARTZ

https://www.facebook.com/harddartz.crew

Here's a link to a pretty wicked bit of footage showing one "creation":

deathstar's picture
deathstar's picture
deathstar Thursday, 15 Oct 2015 at 11:15am

i was working at the mona vale boardshop at that time , we had the film on high rotation playing in store, sold lots and lots of copies of both the film and mag. Definitely a ground breaking film as far as I'm concerned. We used to laugh so hard at the part were young Fitzy claimed himself as one of the greatest of all time.

lostdoggy's picture
lostdoggy's picture
lostdoggy Thursday, 15 Oct 2015 at 11:32am

Pretty sure I remember that article Tim.
Not sure where my magazine or video is :(.
We ordered the Val Dusty Experiment double CD from a plug that was in one of the mags. Probably Tracks as that was what we were reading back then.
Listened to those songs all the time.

velocityjohnno's picture
velocityjohnno's picture
velocityjohnno Friday, 16 Oct 2015 at 3:40pm

Thanks Andrew, Litmus came at a time when it really needed to. With other influences, the philosophical cornerstone for my surfing life. Also loved the 'How to Surf for the Rest of Your Life' article done when you were Waves Ed. Would be nice to talk single fins with you one day!

VHS copy and mag still here. 'Way of the Bird' was a bedtime story for my kids.
The content in Litmus was superb, suddenly this was 'thinking' surfing: a mix of travel, reverence, towering figures, and imagery that seemed to take me far away...

Agree with you that accessibility to media has tended to drown out all unique viewpoints. There are just so many now. The 90's irreverence of 'Gonad Man' and films like 'Meet the Feebles' made the world richer, ha!

ninemsn's picture
ninemsn's picture
ninemsn Friday, 16 Oct 2015 at 8:54pm

As you get older the film's Andrew made become more relevant.
I put a video on the other night for a visiting friend of a friend who was barley 20 something he really had never done. He really enjoyed watching a surf movie that had what I like to think of as substance.
My only hope is that Andrew's next film when ever that may be will include Shaun Munro Garth Dickenson Joel Fitzgerald and the other three making up his awsome foursome.
I have lost count how many times I have watched Joel's section, the great thing about that film was it gave you access to see these guys surfing good waves and not in a contest.
Please don't make us wait too long AK and include a magazine as well!!

kennym57's picture
kennym57's picture
kennym57 Sunday, 18 Oct 2015 at 11:18am

Yeah awesome film, picked it up in Ireland in 95',had been travelling and surfing there since 90', totally raw, came across the young Fitzgerald boys up in Bundorran with their cousin Ritchie awesome place, people, told them to keep it quiet oh well it was bound to go off"

stunet's picture
stunet's picture
stunet Thursday, 17 Dec 2015 at 4:17pm

Heads up for the New Year, Kidman has a mini tour happening early-mid January:

finbox_thirroul.jpg

lostdoggy's picture
lostdoggy's picture
lostdoggy Thursday, 17 Dec 2015 at 5:10pm

Do you know if there's anything for the North Coast, Stu?
That flyer is limited to Sydney and South Coast by the looks.

Cheers.

stunet's picture
stunet's picture
stunet Thursday, 17 Dec 2015 at 5:55pm

You in the Yamba region, LD? The last show is at Wooloweyah Community Hall.

Not sure about any other dates on the north coast.

lostdoggy's picture
lostdoggy's picture
lostdoggy Thursday, 17 Dec 2015 at 7:06pm

Cool, missed that one. Thanks.
In Ballina, but may try to make it down.

tux's picture
tux's picture
tux Friday, 18 Dec 2015 at 12:29pm

Any chance of getting a show down on the surf coast?

lostdoggy's picture
lostdoggy's picture
lostdoggy Friday, 18 Dec 2015 at 12:51pm

Looks like he announced one yesterday on his Instagram for tonight at Crabbes creek.
Think I'll head to that.
That must be pretty close to you, Ben?

stunet's picture
stunet's picture
stunet Friday, 24 Nov 2017 at 8:35pm

Kidman is currently working on 'Beyond Litmus' and releasing snippets of content onto Instagram.

Here's today's offering: Curren riding the Joe Larkin that MP rode in Morning Of The Earth.

Icon cubed.

velocityjohnno's picture
velocityjohnno's picture
velocityjohnno Friday, 24 Nov 2017 at 10:41pm

Yeah wow, amazing to think that board survived.

I'm wondering how you go 'beyond Litmus' - surfing's litmus test of the 90's, or depth test if you will indulge the Swellnet sub section heading...

When Litmus was released, here was this different approach to surfing, it didn't have to conform to a very rigid narrow style on narrow dimensions - and now today alternative ways of riding waves are flourishing; one could do an entire film trying to record everything being ridden. Now we have SUP hydrofoils, people have tow surfed inflatable killer whale toys, some guy aqua-skiied Jaws, there's dolphin body surfing, the wood renaissance, the soft board - surfcraft are as varied as the human imagination. Which is nice.

Maybe Litmus was a feeling as much as a surfing film. Glad I don't have to answer how to go beyond it. But more gonad man is certainly welcome.