‘The Social Dilemma’

Nick Bone's picture
Nick Bone started the topic in Friday, 9 Oct 2020 at 8:45am

Watched it last night with me lady.

Two things -

Firstly, I personally don’t have any social media but I was left with ill feelings towards my phone, thats for sure. I try to use it as a source for information only but the doco now has me questioning what I’m reading. Im not being mined on social platforms due no accounts but do other websites do the same? (Looking at you Swellnet. I joke I joke I kid I kid) Been given information that is manipulated?

Secondly, My Fiancé:) uses social media for leisure and for her business. She’s left feeling kinda snookered in that she has no choice to be manipulated in order to keep her business out there. I suggested you could strictly use it for business but she thinks otherwise.

Love to hear people’s opinion as a whole!

thermalben's picture
thermalben's picture
thermalben commented Saturday, 10 Oct 2020 at 6:29am

It's a fascinating movie. They've managed to perfectly illustrate - in layman's terms - just how those companies work, and the impact they're having. 

Tie this in with other documentaries (i.e. The Great Hack), and it's indisputable that social media is rapidly, forever changing the world we live in.

And I don't think most people quite understand the long term implications of this.

There are a thousand discussions to have on this topic... gosh, where to begin?

velocityjohnno's picture
velocityjohnno's picture
velocityjohnno commented Saturday, 10 Oct 2020 at 12:34pm

How about Swellnet, Ben? You guys run a traditional text based forum that is becoming more unique out there. Targeted advertising will depend upon cookies or trackers vs browser blockers/script permissions. I don't think you guys would bother to be as invasive as social media... Text based forums hark back to the early, free days of the internet. They still have their moments and can melt down!

As for the other social media, no accounts here though I do use one messaging service to keep up with mates.

If privacy is what you may desire, here is a phone (and laptops and operating systems) that are a step towards this:

https://puri.sm/products/librem-5/

I guess for messaging there is signal and telegram. Caveat emptor as always.

thermalben's picture
thermalben's picture
thermalben commented Saturday, 10 Oct 2020 at 12:38pm

It's a fair point VJ.

However, not only are we not interested in the kind of data they're amassing, we simply don't have the resources either (Swellnet has 3 staff, Facebook has 52,000).

Yes, we use cookies for a bunch of reasons - for example, staying permenantly logged in to the website wouldn't work without 'em - but we are definitely a lo-fi version of what everyone else is tapped into.

Additionally, I'm the sole owner of the business, and am happy to answer anyone's questions (usually in real-time, too). For better or for worse, won't find this level of transparency anywhere else in the surf industry, let alone from any media entity.

Michael Bourne's picture
Michael Bourne's picture
Michael Bourne commented Saturday, 10 Oct 2020 at 12:41pm

‘Unique’? How. I look at vitamins, swellnet helps try to sell me vitamins. Anything that might get a hit is ‘news’. You can just look at Utube, or use swellnet to do it for you.

Never switched off devices are everywhere. More and more people are amazed when they merely mention something, and it’s a miraculous intervention when next thing there’s the ad. Let us help you help us make more money.

icandig's picture
icandig's picture
icandig commented Saturday, 10 Oct 2020 at 12:59pm

Where to begin -indeed.. I've been following this topic since 1984 scared the shit out of me in 1982. (Year 12 text). In many ways the internet / social media have fulfilled George Orwell's prophecies. I haven't watched the social dilemma yet, but intend to sit my 16 year old in front of the box and watch it together. Sad thing is I'm as guilty as the next person in neglecting my e-trail.

Tim Berners Lee - inventor of HTML / or the web as we know it....

“We demonstrated that the Web had failed instead of served humanity, as it was supposed to have done, and failed in many places,” he told me. The increasing centralization of the Web, he says, has “ended up producing—with no deliberate action of the people who designed the platform—a large-scale emergent phenomenon which is anti-human.”

CEO of Sun Microsystems Tim McNealy in 1999...
"You have zero privacy anyway. Get over it".

And now if you can believe the b.s. below

GuySmiley's picture
GuySmiley's picture
GuySmiley commented Saturday, 10 Oct 2020 at 1:37pm

Ben, currently I’m not a paid subscriber to SN but when I check in my iPhone screen has pop up ads for all sorts of products. I think I’ve read ads are blocked for subscribers, is that true?

thermalben's picture
thermalben's picture
thermalben commented Saturday, 10 Oct 2020 at 2:15pm

Yep. Subscribers see zero ads.

Always surprises me (and annoys me, TBH) when I subscribe to a website and they still make me sit through ads.

Just to confirm - are you seeing 'pop up ads' (as in you have to close them to see content), or just regular ads?

GuySmiley's picture
GuySmiley's picture
GuySmiley commented Saturday, 10 Oct 2020 at 3:04pm

They are regular ads mostly located throughout the homepage but also semi transparent ads scroll upwards from the bottom of the page on my iPhone which I need to close to make it easier to use your website. Even now on my laptop there's an ad for shirts at the top of the screen and one for Ford cars on the RHS top.

I will subscribe again once lockdown ends, no point atm.

I agree if I pay a subscription I shouldn't have to see ads, the Age is like that, very annoying, but just ended that subs anyway given its drift to the right under 9 News and its new moderator policy which seems to be vetting comments against the govt. Its a shame, once a fiercely independent paper.

Cheers

tubeshooter's picture
tubeshooter's picture
tubeshooter commented Saturday, 10 Oct 2020 at 5:33pm

I just got an add for investing in the stock market and Harley Davidson hoodies . If anyone is tracking my marketing interests they've missed the mark by a faarking long way.

AndyM's picture
AndyM's picture
AndyM commented Saturday, 10 Oct 2020 at 5:41pm

Same here.

The ads I get are so far off the mark, one at the moment seems to be cycling clothing??

AndyM's picture
AndyM's picture
AndyM commented Saturday, 10 Oct 2020 at 5:48pm

And women's clothing...

thermalben's picture
thermalben's picture
thermalben commented Saturday, 10 Oct 2020 at 6:01pm

We outsource our ads to a third party, who use the Google Ads software platform. Whether they hit the mark or not (with targeting etc) isn't something I actually spend any time worrying about, TBH. We're focused on building the best possible website for our subscribers, who see no ads.

GuySmiley's picture
GuySmiley's picture
GuySmiley commented Saturday, 10 Oct 2020 at 6:03pm

Fair point Ben

tubeshooter's picture
tubeshooter's picture
tubeshooter commented Saturday, 10 Oct 2020 at 6:33pm

Don't worry Ben , I don't come here for the adds , nor do i spend my time worrying about them either.
However someone in the invisible internet marketing department may have sensed a perceived dilemma in my comment and given me a craft beer add on this page. It probably tastes like shit but it's a start .. cheers

velocityjohnno's picture
velocityjohnno's picture
velocityjohnno commented Saturday, 10 Oct 2020 at 8:56pm

Andy delete all history. You are getting lycra ads.

cayd93's picture
cayd93's picture
cayd93 commented Saturday, 10 Oct 2020 at 9:01pm

I enjoyed the movie and after a chat with a mate we both decided to delete Social media (facebook, insta and snapchat). I’ve been without it all for a week now and have noticed the extra time I have each day which adds up over the week. Can’t see myself ever going back to it.

tubeshooter's picture
tubeshooter's picture
tubeshooter commented Saturday, 10 Oct 2020 at 11:19pm

If it wasn't for this thread I wouldn't even be looking at designer shoes from faarking Paris ,,, FFS

Stok's picture
Stok's picture
Stok commented Saturday, 10 Oct 2020 at 11:37pm

Two things worry me about social media - future generations and radicalisation.

Great points that Social Media isn't designed to nurture growing minds.

Also very forthcoming that social media is radicalising the world and will lead towards more civil wars and polarisation.

Still...the Social Dilemma in itself is most likely propaganda of some form. Also, these drama docos on Netflix only tell one side of the story and masquerade to the viewers as evidential truths, when they're actually just entertainment pieces where one group tells their opinions.

Sheepdog's picture
Sheepdog's picture
Sheepdog commented Sunday, 11 Oct 2020 at 1:56pm

It all comes back to capitalism., Stok. If both parents didn't have to work 50 hours a week to paradoxically pay for childcare, to pay for schooling, to keep up with the Jones's, one parent could be at home after school, helping kids identify shit posts from fact on the web.
Unfortunately it's now gone too far. Even some parents are fucked in the head and passing on their screwed up ideologies.
Covid has had a silver lining in the fact that we've had to slow down and take stock for 6 months.. Many are now seeing what only a few have seen, warned, and been attacked for warning. 'YOU'RE ANTI JOBS" they bellowed.
But we need more than a virus to shake the shit out of this world.
Anyhooooo I'm off to the coal powered wave pool. MY 36 seconds of fake barrel time is more important than talking to strangers online. Fuck the environment. It's 3 foot and I got my tax deduction. Got my new petro fish to try out.
If that sounds selfish, it's because it is. Us surfers are the most selfish "lifestylists" on the planet

Sheepdog

I focus's picture
I focus's picture
I focus commented Sunday, 11 Oct 2020 at 5:29pm

"Us surfers are the most selfish "lifestylists" on the planet"

Conformation over on the shark thread!

indo-dreaming's picture
indo-dreaming's picture
indo-dreaming commented Sunday, 11 Oct 2020 at 7:59pm

Half way through the docco, but it is scary all this internet and social media stuff.

Few places i go in Indo have no to very little phone signal, i really enjoy a few weeks to months detox, and the funny thing is when i get back online after it, it takes me 5 minutes to catch up and feel I've missed nothing.

Really missed the detox this year.

batfink's picture
batfink's picture
batfink commented Sunday, 11 Oct 2020 at 9:03pm

It’s not just social media, basically every search on the internet goes to google, every phone call, text, everything is recorded somewhere. If you have any devices that respond to voice, you are the product. If you do have any voice activated anything, Alexa, Siri, TVs, you need to be across everything and how to really turn it off. Personally, I don’t use any voice activated anything (how hard is a remote control, FFS)

Anyways, I prefer Firefox browser, set to delete history every time I close down. It only helps minimally, and I use private browsing, but really they’re going to get a white load of information about you.

While the government was introducing legislation for phone companies to keep all your records for 2 years, I was arguing for all records to be deleted after each bill has been paid.

And if all that sounds scary, what the spy agencies have make google and Facebook look like amateurs. You are being watched, listened to, scanned, face recognised, surveilled, spooked, followed, all the time. And humans aren’t looking at it, pretend AI algorithms are scanning it with programmes written by some of the least socially advanced human beings since the Stone Age, yep, IT programmers, mostly white male nerds.

You should be concerned. I am, but like surfing with sharks in the water, I make sure I’m not the person most likely to arouse suspicion.

icandig's picture
icandig's picture
icandig commented Sunday, 11 Oct 2020 at 9:26pm

Batfink...now I'm suspicious. What are you hiding?

Stok's picture
Stok's picture
Stok commented Sunday, 11 Oct 2020 at 10:31pm

Maybe places like North Korea and China truly are the utopias of our modern age....no Facebook and no Google.