Effects of cold water on physical recovery

GuySmiley's picture
GuySmiley started the topic in Tuesday, 31 Jul 2018 at 6:02pm

I can find surfing in Victoria during winter physically taxing not during the surf but the next day.

During the surf I'm fine, not even cold, but the next day I can feel stiff or lacking energy making backing up during a run of swell difficult.

Very annoying.

GuySmiley's picture
GuySmiley's picture
GuySmiley commented Tuesday, 31 Jul 2018 at 6:03pm

Anyone else? Any suggestions to improve recovery?

happyasS's picture
happyasS's picture
happyasS commented Tuesday, 31 Jul 2018 at 6:07pm

I hear an ice bath helps speed muscle recovery. :)

blindboy's picture
blindboy's picture
blindboy commented Tuesday, 31 Jul 2018 at 6:24pm

Guy try a hot bath or a sauna. Even if you are not cold you will have lost a lot of heat. The skin is the largest organ in the body so if your skin is cool you have to generate a lot of heat to return it to normal hence the tiredness. Paddling in a (presumably) heavy wetsuit also burns a lot of energy. At some point surfing every day in cold water becomes unsustainable so take rest days when you feel tired.

thatguy's picture
thatguy's picture
thatguy commented Tuesday, 31 Jul 2018 at 7:38pm

Eat. Typically after a winter surf I'll eat once I'm dressed. Anything from sandwiches to thermos hot dogs. Dinner will normally be steak, baked potato and lots of steamed green veg plus a couple of stouts. I may even throw in some toasted sangas at some point either before or after depending on what time I've surfed. You've gotta put back what you take out. A good post surf stretch helps as well as does a snooze on the couch.

Clam's picture
Clam's picture
Clam commented Tuesday, 31 Jul 2018 at 9:04pm

Light a fire and warm your hands even just a small one will do usually

clif's picture
clif's picture
clif commented Tuesday, 31 Jul 2018 at 9:33pm

Harden up?

"Don't try. That's very important: not to try." Charles Bukowski

lostdoggy's picture
lostdoggy's picture
lostdoggy commented Tuesday, 31 Jul 2018 at 9:51pm

Also, have a wetsuit quiver.
If you're feeling tired and it's hard to backup the next day, a cold, wet wetsuit won't do any favours for your motivation levels.

chook's picture
chook's picture
chook commented Wednesday, 1 Aug 2018 at 1:04am

Harden up, you say? I’m at my aunts in northern Ontario... it’s like the Klondike. moose meat for lunch and dinner.

And there are surfers. Apparently wetsuits are a danger here...you’ve got about 3 minutes to get out of your suit before it freezes solid like the tin man without an oil can.

GuySmiley's picture
GuySmiley's picture
GuySmiley commented Wednesday, 1 Aug 2018 at 5:20pm

BB, I think your point about the skin is excellent, I normally have a hot shower asap after a surf but a hot bath would be better. thatguy, your point about food also good although as I'm normally good with the chaff bag I'm trying to avoid overeating in winter.after reading chook's comment it seems I do need to harden up .... I'm also thinking about getting the occasional massage but wonder whether my surf fitness just isn't as good as it should be

brownie48's picture
brownie48's picture
brownie48 commented Wednesday, 1 Aug 2018 at 6:18pm

While I am not in Victoria I do feel the cold quite badly and stiffen up a lot. I have multiple super warm steamers so I never have to put a wet wetsuit on in winter

If you can be bothered take a 2 or 3 litre old plastic bottle filled with really warm water down to the beach so when you get out you can pour it over you to warm yourself up

After the surf its a nice hot drink/soup to start with then a bit of yoga or activated warm up type activities to get blood moving then once I have warmed from inside out then a hot shower if required

Usually don't need the hot shower as the warming from the inside works really well

The Fire's picture
The Fire's picture
The Fire commented Wednesday, 1 Aug 2018 at 9:46pm

its called getting old guy.

Do you maintain your flexabilty between swells? Do any cardio? Nope. Probably not.

Get into yoga and start some h i i t.

Just my 2c.

Peace

strawbs's picture
strawbs's picture
strawbs commented Thursday, 2 Aug 2018 at 7:22am

Staying hydrated really took the edge of muscle soreness for me, especially multiple sessions over a couple of days , in winter cold water makes us me piss more and only makes us more dehydrated , as we age our desire to drink starts to diminish as well , stretching diet etc all play there part but for me drinking more water had the biggest effect .

Jamyardy's picture
Jamyardy's picture
Jamyardy commented Thursday, 2 Aug 2018 at 9:15am

Hey Chook, I did a bit of time up that way, summer was great, you should hang out for winter, a very different story at that time of year. The moose jerky was pretty good, and the walleye is a treat.

amb's picture
amb's picture
amb commented Thursday, 2 Aug 2018 at 11:19am

Slighty of topic (and no help for our cold water friend), but i normally feel flat after a surf & breaky in Indo and dont want to sleep. A guy in a market put me onto Kratom powder. His instructions dont take any more than a teaspoon with water in a shot glass. Taste like shit (lawn clippings) so have a banana ready. He said you will feel great for 4-5hrs then will have the best sleep. He was right felt amazing, very clear headed and plenty of energy and had a great sleep. Next day a little foggy headed but nothing like a hangover. DId some reseach apparenlty illegal in Australia but legal in Indo, US ect. Anyone else tried this? Indo Dreaming you have any info on it?..seems like a free lunch i know no such thing must be something wrong with it.

The Fire's picture
The Fire's picture
The Fire commented Thursday, 2 Aug 2018 at 1:00pm

Hamiltons pharmacopia did an episode on this plant in thailand where its been illegal since 1946. Initial effects are stimulatory, then has a sedative effect. Illegal in aus since 05. Never used it personally.
100% agree with maintaining hydration. Last thing i do before i paddle out and first thing i do when i come in is drink some rainwater.

Peace

Eugene Green's picture
Eugene Green's picture
Eugene Green commented Thursday, 2 Aug 2018 at 11:59pm

Stay hydrated
Magnesium
Hot salt baths
Massage
Avoid junk food
Stay of the piss if you can
Hope that helps.

GuySmiley's picture
GuySmiley's picture
GuySmiley commented Friday, 3 Aug 2018 at 8:07am

yeah, i'm getting old but do take fitness seriously between swells but HIIT is a great idea as is staying hydrated which I'm not good at in winter. Thanks

Clam's picture
Clam's picture
Clam commented Wednesday, 8 Aug 2018 at 11:40pm

Amb yes theres lots different flavors and its a great recovery drink

chook's picture
chook's picture
chook commented Thursday, 9 Aug 2018 at 12:29am

i have no knowledge about this, but...i've read in the paper of footy players taking ice baths or standing in cold water in winter in victoria to aid recovery after training.
but i'm guessing this isn't what's needed after a long cold surf.

Jamyardy...haven't had any walleye (pickerell, right?) yet on this trip. people seem more interested in the perch. i really want to get some trout. and no, i'm not hanging around for winter....i've survived 10 north american winters. that's enough.

goofyfoot's picture
goofyfoot's picture
goofyfoot commented Thursday, 9 Aug 2018 at 5:50am

This thread is just set up perfectly for ahh..well... you know who to come along and tear strips off everyone
In a nutshell

CryptoKnight's picture
CryptoKnight's picture
CryptoKnight commented Saturday, 11 Aug 2018 at 4:15pm

There is another new wave, making waves in the health and fitness world. Hormones rule... again! Despite the swillnut anthem.

'This thread is just set up perfectly for ahh..well... you know who'

'i have no knowledge about this, but'

Yes, its set up perfectly for swillnuts, swillnuts squwarking the swillnut anthem, in a nutshell!!!??? Bitcoin boogy knights!!!!?? In a nutshell.

Conversely, I have mountains, decades of ever growing experience, knowledge and expertise in the health and fitness world so... but...

http://www.vasper.com/

Early days, but some very interesting real world results, at all levels.

With some not so new, but proven 'science', if you know what to look for. If you know what questions to ask.

Hormones... time

Hormones... anaerobic (note to aerobic junkies)

Hormones... tension

Hormones... lactic acid

Hormones... recovery, healing, rehab

Hormones... health and fitness and well being

Hormones... performance

Time, tension, recovery. Training to minimize injury but maximize results.

Real, desirable, far reaching hormonal, structural, muscular, skeletal, adaption?

Balancing acts... no, forget it.

Aerobics... no forget it.

Fear of exercise machines... no forget it.

By all means, train specifically for specific skills.

However, re the Vasper, the mental aspect is a concern to me. Although, in fairness, there is a growing body of real world transferable evidence. As I said previously, I train one of only four women in the world to have ever completed the toughest of survival events. Only proven competitors can enter. In an event advertised as, 'don't bother, you won't make it'. She also defeated most men in that event. Highly trained all comers from all fields. No age groups. She is over 50. And we always discuss how she will mentally prevail, as she watches other competitors mentally crumble.

The mind must be conditioned when training also. Never underestimate the power of mental conditioning, or 'brainwashing'.

Jamyardy's picture
Jamyardy's picture
Jamyardy commented Saturday, 11 Aug 2018 at 11:00pm

Hey Chook, we used to throw the perch back, Yeah Pickerel (walleye) best eating fish in NA, maybe the planet. I only did three winters, never could get used to the 40 below temps.

Terminal's picture
Terminal's picture
Terminal commented Sunday, 12 Aug 2018 at 8:15am

Hi GuySmiley,
Eugene Green is on to it with the magnesium, amazing stuff. I take it in the evening after any strenuous activity. You could also try taking ginko biloba about 2hrs before going for a surf and/or strong, home brewed ginger tea (really effective vasodilator) immediately before paddling out. Sounds like witchcraft I know but really does have a noticeable effect for me. Caution, though, if you're on any blood thinners (i.e., warfarin etc.) avoid the ginko.
Hope this helps

lostdoggy's picture
lostdoggy's picture
lostdoggy commented Sunday, 12 Aug 2018 at 1:55pm

Don't you want vasoconstriction in cold environments to keep up the core body temp rather than it spreading to the extremities?
The tea drinking would help by consuming the warm water and heating the core though.

CryptoKnight's picture
CryptoKnight's picture
CryptoKnight commented Sunday, 12 Aug 2018 at 2:13pm

'I can find surfing in Victoria during winter physically taxing not during the surf but the next day.

During the surf I'm fine, not even cold, but the next day I can feel stiff or lacking energy making backing up during a run of swell difficult.'

'but wonder whether my surf fitness just isn't as good as it should be'

What else do you do to improve fitness, and health? Every day? Emphasis on 'improve'.

The biggest mistake is getting into the, 'I'll just maintain' rut. Doomed. That's not how our physiology works. You must aim at constant improvement, even the slightest amount, or you'll be going backwards in no time. And compounding will work beautifully in the wrong direction.

Surfing has some benefits, but as is obvious, also many negatives when it comes to long term, overall health and fitness. It should be pretty obvious that surfing creates many imbalances, so structural and health problems. Then of course that 'bainy' thread is nothing out of the ordinary.

This culture has totally lost the plot when it comes to general health and fitness, and well being. Bottle shops and kitchens rule. I get 'emergency' calls from local surfers relentlessly, and besides the 'emergency', despite their blathering and gibbering, their overall fitness at performing the most basic workouts is appallingly pitiful. As is the case with the general population. The average middle age guy and women are living in a dream, and believe that they are much, much fitter than they really are. It is a rude shock to them, when they see the truth about their 'fitness'.

Anyone who has been in the industry for a long time will tell you its getting worse, not better. It used to be that everyone could perform pretty basic tasks, and that most people would present without injury, or limiting physical conditions. The majority of people who join a gym etc these days, have some sort of limiting physical issue. 'That's pretty much why they are 'forced' (another recipe for failure) to start exercising. Including teenagers and kids. Then, a double edge sword, the access to information means many 'workouts' ('how's me new app aye'), are hilarious, adding to the recipe for failure.

It is a fact that overall, beneficial hormone levels are plummeting across the board. This is a most important issue, as hormones rule. Hence the avalanching PED drug culture in sports. Which is exploding in the general population also. Kids in gyms think nothing of 'doing cycles', and have no idea what that, disastrously, really means for them.

Our overall cultural direction isn't good for our overall well being. The evidence is obvious to those who work in the field.

Sleep is crucial. Crucial. So far reaching, seemingly so simple. Our culture operates at zombie levels as the norm.

Hormones rule. Recovery is crucial. Sleep. So is the right amount, and type of activity, or stress. We blame age for many things. While it is a factor, the truth is the dramatic changes in lifestyle, as we age are the biggest issue. 'I gorta post about farkin' lopes... now!!!' Tasks that were once easy become torture for unfit slobs and weaklings, growing worse by the day. Looking for a more and more culturally acceptable pill or operation to save themselves. Or a quick call on the mobile, 'somebody do something'!!!? Even the average teenager these days is affected by dramatic cultural changes, resulting in overall weakness and poor well being.

Terminal's picture
Terminal's picture
Terminal commented Sunday, 12 Aug 2018 at 3:25pm

I think for surfers, vasoconstriction leads to the all too familiar blue/white and numb extremities due to the reduced blood and oxygen flow to tissues. I'm certainly no expert and all I can say is what I have found to work for me. At my local, for instance, I'm still paddling around comfortably in boardies (occasional 1mm vest) while most others are out in their 3x2 steamers. Maybe give it a go and see what you think?