Snapped new board... Any chance of replacement?

theevilpotato's picture
theevilpotato started the topic in Thursday, 19 May 2011 at 1:36am

Hi, you may remember me as the bloke who had all his surfboards stolen a few months ago.

Well, my string of bad luck has continued...

After encouragement from people on this board, I opted to go for a (reasonably well established) local shaper instead of the superfish import I was looking at.

Anyway, this morning down at Kilcunda I managed to crack the board more or less in two. What was weird was that it happened in not particularly mean 4ft swell, and it happened when I ducked under a wave and it closed on the tail (I never let go of the board so it wouldn't have planted in the sand). The crack is right through the core and the stringer has cracked too, but the top glass is still more or less intact. It's about 10cm up from the fins.

Anyway, I was just wondering whether it's reasonable to go back to the shaper and go 'this isn't right', or whether I've just got to wear it as bad luck? As I mentioned in my earlier 'what new board should I get' thread, I don't know a whole lot about surfboard design and construction - this was the first board I'd bought new, my previous board that was stolen was a beat up 2nd hander - and had seen way meaner conditions (for the better part of a decade) then what snapped this board. My boss, who'd done a bit of shaping when he was younger, reckons that given the conditions and the way it cracked it seems pretty unusual, like it wasn't glassed properly or something. The board was more or less brand new (I'd bought it maybe 2 months ago and surfed it probably once or twice a week since), had no dings or dents or depressions at all.

If you think I've just got to wear it as bad luck, is it worth repairing after the stringer's cracked? It was a $700 board that I really liked and had some custom art on it so if possible I'd like to keep it. I'm not drowning in cash so if I'm going to fork out $150 for a repair on something that's buggered I may as well spend $250 or something on a 2nd hand one.

Cheers for any advice

shaun's picture
shaun's picture
shaun Thursday, 19 May 2011 at 7:59am

Get it fixed, sounds like it is a good fixer, go back to the shaper , try it on he may take pity on you and get it fixed a bit cheaper for you or maybe for nothing. If you don't ask you wont find out. I've busted boards in small surf it is just bad luck, you know all about bad luck.

theevilpotato's picture
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theevilpotato Thursday, 19 May 2011 at 1:16pm

Can it be fixed once the stringer's cracked? Hasn't it lost all of it's strength?

bigwayne's picture
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bigwayne Thursday, 19 May 2011 at 8:40pm

mr potato , this is your feerless leeder and all round fountain of faeces, mate its sounds a little like that shaper saw you coming ! these days its way cheaper to buy blanks that are "seconds" where the struture of the foam is not correct, by this , one means that they still produce batches of foam and press/extrude them and the first ones that come out are not structually correct but none the less still "product" . this means that there could be larger "bubbles" in the foam or even none at all thus creating weak spots. you said that the glass wasnt cracked on top, this is most likley produced by downward pressure but as you say it should not have broken at all in 4ft . one suspects that the blank he used was a "second" but still charged for a first. by all means approach you shaper and ask him ! if he answers too quickly than you can probably guess that it was the inferior blank and he wanted your money and not your custom . but a $150 fix for a snap is a bit rich. give him the opportunity to fix it (at a decent price of course) and if not then find another shaper . ask the price difference between first and second blanks and make sure you tell him about you surfing ability . if you want a custom board also be aware that if your forking out your hard earned (over $700) and the shaper does not spend at least 15 -30 minutes talking to you about your ability and intended use ( daily , weekly , monthly ) then it would be a safe bet that he has a blank thats been sitting around that cant be sold and is waitng for a punter who has no idea , hence inferior product.

yes mr potato , all boards can be fixed , and no it hasnt lost all its strength , unless you are "pro" (big thankyou to mrs bigwayne) like ones goodself you will never know the difference , hope this helps

this has been bought to you by a very loving and caring of his royal subjects HRH bigwayne

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theevilpotato Saturday, 21 May 2011 at 8:54am

Thanks for the response. I went back to the shaper (not going to name names just yet), he said it was extremely unusual. He wasn't going to replace the board (not that I really expected it) and told me he'd charge me $80-100 to fix it. He said despite the the foam and stringer being cracked, the repair would likely make it the strongest section of the board and would guarantee that it wouldn't snap there again.

I must admit having bought my last board, all my wetties and my latest board from there I don't exactly feel like an appreciated customer being expected to pay for the repairs on a brand new $700 board (900 bag fins etc) after taking it out in 3ft swell. You could argue it off as bad luck but for someone who believes in their product and looks after their customers, I think it's a bit harsh. Anyway, we'll see what happens when it comes time to actually fork up for the repair.

shaun's picture
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shaun Sunday, 22 May 2011 at 3:19am

having spent that amount of money with him I would've expected he would do it for nothing,it's just good business in the long term, you haven't mentioned his name here, but I'm sure all your mates know who he is. The reason you go to the local shaper/surfshop is so when something comes up you have areal person to back up the product, get it fixed move on, go find a place where you are a valued customer.

more's picture
more's picture
more Sunday, 22 May 2011 at 7:20am

what glass job did you request or get ? if you went for the light option, then as a shaper, he should have told you that the risk of breaking is much higher...
did you discuss glassing-strength at all with shaper ? the shaper or board maker should discuss all areas of the board and inform the customer of all options and changing to the boards performance or potential risks....
I definitely wouldnt start accusing him of using poor quality products ( as someone has above ) unless you know that for sure. Did you ask him to repair it for free or possibly half price ? Or did you just take it to him to fix ? Best to discuss it all with him and most are decent and at least try to offer you a cheap repair but surfboards do break and sometimes in unlikely circumstances, just one of those things I guess, just a shame it has happened to you after your bad luck....hope things get better for you...

www.moresurfboards.com

hovercraft's picture
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hovercraft Sunday, 22 May 2011 at 9:06am

To me sounds like a shit blank and the shaper should just pay his glasser to fix and not charge you. If you think he's using inferior product ask him were he gets his blanks from and how old it was. Finding lately people are squeezing the margins right now, I have traded boards in the last year for 300 to 350 now its 200 to 250 accompaninied by the old " we wont make any money if we trade for that, sell this,buy for that". For a puritanical pass time/sport I find the retail side of the industry akin to used cars sales just now (apart from a few) I've heard a few surfshop salesman say shapers are starting to want to deal less with knuckle head customers directly and work through the shops.......really? These guys will be looking at scraping margin from the customer and and the shaper.....they are smiling assassins nowadays I reckon treating people like fools and will say the shaper is charging the shop more than it is...I know I have just caught a shop out and saved 200 going directly to the shaper after they over quoted and said they hoped I wouldnt go direct to the shaper as he would "under cut them"...I asked them how they saw me getting a better price direct as undercutting.....difficult silence and a bit of attitude for asking the question was the answer. i never told them I went direct as they woud have hassled the shaper for sure.

shaun's picture
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shaun Sunday, 22 May 2011 at 12:45pm

To me sounds like a shit blank and the shaper should just pay his glasser to fix and not charge you. If you think he's using inferior product ask him were he gets his blanks from and how old it was. Finding lately people are squeezing the margins right now, I have traded boards in the last year for 300 to 350 now its 200 to 250 accompaninied by the old " we wont make any money if we trade for that, sell this,buy for that". For a puritanical pass time/sport I find the retail side of the industry akin to used cars sales just now (apart from a few) I've heard a few surfshop salesman say shapers are starting to want to deal less with knuckle head customers directly and work through the shops.......really? These guys will be looking at scraping margin from the customer and and the shaper.....they are smiling assassins nowadays I reckon treating people like fools and will say the shaper is charging the shop more than it is...I know I have just caught a shop out and saved 200 going directly to the shaper after they over quoted and said they hoped I wouldnt go direct to the shaper as he would "under cut them"...I asked them how they saw me getting a better price direct as undercutting.....difficult silence and a bit of attitude for asking the question was the answer. i never told them I went direct as they woud have hassled the shaper for sure.

By: "hovercraft"

mmmm.... generally shapers prefer not to deal through surf shops but I can see their point, which I don't think you did, your the nucklehead no one wants to deal with.

bigwayne's picture
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bigwayne Sunday, 22 May 2011 at 6:02pm

mr moore, your veiled snide remark was duly noted and will be returned at ones earliest convenience, question mr moore , do you think that mr potato was even aware of the various ways and weights that glassing can take? if he was then he would of stipulated what he wanted , 4 or 6 oz , heel pad or maybe a chestpad? if he did this thread would not exist!!! and any shaper that is worth his/her salt , should as a matter of customer service , be able to make the decision based on the info gained by that 15-30 mins of "consultation". whats to say that there wasnt a "spare" that someone orderd and never paid for? hence the "spare" that mr potato has now been given under the guise of a "custom"?? granted mr moore not all of us shapers are in it for the money (although it certainly helps) there are some real bozos out there that will just take the cash and run or not made what you asked for , one thinks that this could be one of the reasons that you started to shape mr moore? not getting what you paid good coin for so ill make my own? one knows that was one of the reasons that your feerless leeder started

mr potato , when it comes time to pay for you repair dont try to haggle , pick up the board and run your hands around the fix check it is smooth and dont feel any undulations or sharpness then just puy your board under your arm and walk out!!!! whats he going to do mate? dont pay him for the "fix" because as your only true "pro"(big thankyou to mrs bigwayne bank account) and all round problem solver just go to another shaper and please dont buy import boards as poeple like mr moore and my goodself have families to feed and reputations to uphold

this was bpught to you by an up way too early in the morning and wishing that he was back in bed HRH bigwayne

rasda's picture
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rasda Sunday, 22 May 2011 at 10:26pm

That's a pretty good deal, I reckon.

hovercraft's picture
hovercraft's picture
hovercraft Sunday, 22 May 2011 at 10:28pm

"hovercraft" wrote: To me sounds like a shit blank and the shaper should just pay his glasser to fix and not charge you. If you think he's using inferior product ask him were he gets his blanks from and how old it was. Finding lately people are squeezing the margins right now, I have traded boards in the last year for 300 to 350 now its 200 to 250 accompaninied by the old " we wont make any money if we trade for that, sell this,buy for that". For a puritanical pass time/sport I find the retail side of the industry akin to used cars sales just now (apart from a few) I've heard a few surfshop salesman say shapers are starting to want to deal less with knuckle head customers directly and work through the shops.......really? These guys will be looking at scraping margin from the customer and and the shaper.....they are smiling assassins nowadays I reckon treating people like fools and will say the shaper is charging the shop more than it is...I know I have just caught a shop out and saved 200 going directly to the shaper after they over quoted and said they hoped I wouldnt go direct to the shaper as he would "under cut them"...I asked them how they saw me getting a better price direct as undercutting.....difficult silence and a bit of attitude for asking the question was the answer. i never told them I went direct as they woud have hassled the shaper for sure.

By: "shaun"

mmmm.... generally shapers prefer not to deal through surf shops but I can see their point, which I don't think you did, your the nucklehead no one wants to deal with.

Yeh a knuckle head with an additional 200 in his pocket by going direct and getting a great a board with no hassle and squabbling over money. You may have missed my point.Work for a shop do we?

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shaun Monday, 23 May 2011 at 1:20am

No I don't work for a shop but many years ago I have ,in sales and manufacture, haven't bought from a shop for around 30 years, but I do have a few mates who own shops, and we have a bit of a laugh when they tell me stories about guys like you, also know and have worked with a few shapers. You sound like a nightmare, s'pose you like to get in there in the shaping room with the shaper, when a board breaks like it did 99.9999999% of the time it is just bad luck, "dud blank" ppphhtt please spare us the paranoia it is random bad luck, take ya hand off it knucklehead.

bigwayne's picture
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bigwayne Monday, 23 May 2011 at 7:13am

mr shaun , your post , while amusing sounds a little like you have not one idea of how manufacturers do their "thing" . yes and one thinks that mr moore could maybe clarify this but , shock horror , you can buy "second" blanks . and yes they are cheaper than "first" blanks . there always has been and always will be. most of the chemicals that are used are banned in this country in their virgin state but can be imported in their "finished" state , with me mr shaun? alot like those imported prawns you get from woolies , in the countries that now make these blanks they do the mixing of these chemicals by hand mr shaun , by hand! and how precise do you think that these mesurements and weights would be ? one suspects not very , going on the quality control methods that are (not) used then it would be safe to assume ( and one knows what assuming does) that there just might be a "second"?? with me oldmate? now if you ran a butcher shop you would sell the fat and bones to try and recoup monies , so what makes you think now that blanks cant be as you so eloquently put it " duds" ?? one can own an ultratune store but not be a mechanic mr shaun . working with shapers doing what ? one suspects that it was in your teens and you swept the floor and got the lunches so that does not count!! was begining to warm to your not so goodself , onesself , but upon rereading some of you posts one is forming the opinion of a cranky dejected bitter littleman.

but fear not mr shaun as your feerless leeder its my duty to set you right and one hope this has been a little golden nugget that you can "think' about with what you call a brain

this was bought to you by the only knowall , righter of wrongs and all round shaper to the "stars" HRH bigwayne

hovercraft's picture
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hovercraft Monday, 23 May 2011 at 8:06am

No I don't work for a shop but many years ago I have ,in sales and manufacture, haven't bought from a shop for around 30 years, but I do have a few mates who own shops, and we have a bit of a laugh when they tell me stories about guys like you, also know and have worked with a few shapers. You sound like a nightmare, s'pose you like to get in there in the shaping room with the shaper, when a board breaks like it did 99.9999999% of the time it is just bad luck, "dud blank" ppphhtt please spare us the paranoia it is random bad luck, take ya hand off it knucklehead.

By: "shaun"

"Havent bought from a shop for 30 years...." You are the bloke I dread in the water, "back in day over 30 years ago blah blah blah.....blah.....blah....blah.....blah.....blah..blah..blah". Shut the fuck up.

shaun's picture
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shaun Monday, 23 May 2011 at 8:24am

Yes young fella ,I would be the bloke you dread in the water, as many a brash young loudmouth have found out.Foul mouthed illogical moron.
In answer to Waynker, I would have thought the risk of reputation far outweighed the the small savings you would make on a dud blank, do they import blanks I don't know, maybe More has more to say on this.
But thanks for putting me back on track Waynker you are a wanker, I almost forgot.

bigwayne's picture
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bigwayne Monday, 23 May 2011 at 7:44pm

little mr shaun , your ineptitude and name calling is surpassed by no one , namecalling = no intellect !!!! , one knows for a fact that "second" blanks do cost significantly less than a "first" hence a bigger profit margin . do you know your current shaper well ? is he a good mate of yours ? if the answer is not really then the chances of there being a "second" in your quiver is very possible. so just be told littleman and accept it . there are a few little tricks up EVERY shapers sleeve mr shaun . reputation is all relative , some fella might be unhappy with shaper A , but for every unhappy there will be a happy! but it is an entirely different story for shaper like my goodself and my learned friend mr pridmore we cant afford an unhappy ! still with me mr shaun ? if you have a good passing trade and readymade boards on the rack for walk ins to buy , than would it not make good business sense to make them as cheap as possible and sell them for a premium? but on the other hand , if said passing trade did not exist and your customers seek you outthen they have a pretty good idea of what they want and will pay acordingly , but i guess after all those hours you put in the "factory" you "worked " in you already know that . and you say one masturbates???

anyhoo this was bought to you by the man who taught the world to dance but is dancing with himself oh....oh..oh.oh HRH bigwayne

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shaun Monday, 23 May 2011 at 8:51pm

but for every unhappy there will be a happy!

but it is an entirely different story for shaper like my goodself and my learned friend mr pridmore we cant afford an unhappy !RH bigwayne

By: "bigwayne"

That's just plain bad business practice, for every unhappy customer he will tell 50 people, for every happy customer he will tell 2 or 3.

So...you can't afford an unhappy because your not a very good shaper?

gannet's picture
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gannet Monday, 23 May 2011 at 11:30pm

As for your board repair badspud...

"He said despite the the foam and stringer being cracked, the repair would likely make it the strongest section of the board and would guarantee that it wouldn't snap there again."

Dare I say that this is correct. However, since the flex in this section of the board will now be reduced, its not unlikely that the board will snap again in the near future. Not in the same spot mind you, but perhaps just adjacent to the repair.

This was explained to me many times, but I still had to learn it myself the hard way...

axolotl's picture
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axolotl Wednesday, 25 May 2011 at 12:36am

Now lets see if i've got this right, my interpretation of what you said is that you didnt actually duck dive the wave but swam through holding the front of the board.
This allowed the lip to land flat on the board thus snapping it.

If this is correct you have no right to complain as its your own fault the board dosent have to hit the sand for it to get damaged.

Sorry if i am wrong but i cant see how the wave could break on your tail if you duck diving.

theevilpotato's picture
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theevilpotato Wednesday, 25 May 2011 at 6:14am

@axolotl; I'm not totally sure what happened, that was just the only way I could see any impact leading to a break. I went under the wave and came up and it had snapped. I didn't come off my board or lose contact with my board at any point. I heard a crack as I was going through and came up and it had snapped. Either way, the wave was not particularly large, around 3ft.

According to the shaper he reckons the board must have been damaged prior to that wave. Certainly it wasn't damaged when I went out that morning, so any damage would have occured while out in 3ft swell, which is why it seems unreasonable for the equipment to break.

hovercraft's picture
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hovercraft Wednesday, 25 May 2011 at 6:35am

Yes young fella ,I would be the bloke you dread in the water, as many a brash young loudmouth have found out.Foul mouthed illogical moron.
In answer to Waynker, I would have thought the risk of reputation far outweighed the the small savings you would make on a dud blank, do they import blanks I don't know, maybe More has more to say on this.
But thanks for putting me back on track Waynker you are a wanker, I almost forgot.

By: "shaun"

Such a tough guy, run out of Viagra have we? Borrow some off your mates you sit with crowding the break with your longboards on Sunday morning before after surf Horlicks. Put your teeth back in and then go home all pumped up showing the young fellas up. Tool.

more's picture
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more Wednesday, 25 May 2011 at 7:32am

mr moore, your veiled snide remark was duly noted and will be returned at ones earliest convenience, question mr moore , do you think that mr potato was even aware of the various ways and weights that glassing can take? if he was then he would of stipulated what he wanted , 4 or 6 oz , heel pad or maybe a chestpad? if he did this thread would not exist!!! and any shaper that is worth his/her salt , should as a matter of customer service , be able to make the decision based on the info gained by that 15-30 mins of "consultation". whats to say that there wasnt a "spare" that someone orderd and never paid for? hence the "spare" that mr potato has now been given under the guise of a "custom"?? granted mr moore not all of us shapers are in it for the money (although it certainly helps) there are some real bozos out there that will just take the cash and run or not made what you asked for , one thinks that this could be one of the reasons that you started to shape mr moore? not getting what you paid good coin for so ill make my own? one knows that was one of the reasons that your feerless leeder started

Wayne, It wasnt snide, it was clearly saying I thought the glassing facts and info should have been given to the customer by the shaper, either by him asking or the shaper informing as he should, just trying to get the info which is relevant to the topic, if you wish to take it as a snide remark, thats up to you. I didnt get into shaping to make money as I have always known there is no coin to be found, my Dad was a shaper and I grew up on surf shop floors as a kid in shitty nappies, then worked in a few facories doing all sorts of jobs, plus worked in several surfshops and all these paid fuck all. I always wanted to make boards and started as a keen grom at age 15 when I pulled glass off old singles that I would acquire from anywhere, dont think you should assume too much about me, coz so far you been way off... as for the Bozoz out there, if they were to shape the wrong board and not give good service or take the money and run, they wont be around too long, my reputation is at stake, therefore my livelihood at stake, so I do the right thing and make the best boards I can, I dont glass em , got a great guy who does that for me, great quality, fair price, good service, do it coz I love it, not for the money thats for sure....

www.moresurfboards.com

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bigwayne Wednesday, 25 May 2011 at 9:59am

big mr more , having been set straight on the context of your comment one is humbled as one can be . while your tome was moving mr moore , and now have an insigt on your life , ones conundrum has not been clarified , is the fact that "seconds" do exist? and said inferior product is available to the general public? one has never questioned your ethics mr more nor your ability to give your customers what they want , only the way you flog them unashamedly at the drop of a hat . and worst still, we should be not be squabling over this like two seagulls on a hot chip . ones livelyhood is also tied up in a cloud of foam dust and resin and full respect to those others that do the same for as you said mr more , NAUGHT!! its all about the love !!! .we should be trying to help mr potato .

once again little shaun you have shown you ability to be an a grade what rimes with planker?....... was nearly thinking that you would at least be able to get my point of veiw , but alas , ones judgement was askew . as usual mr shaun your bitter little world has not let you see the dilema faced by mr potato he needs our help ! one will do everything in ones power to do what one can mr potato , but thats only if one does not have to actually "do" anything .

this was bought to you by a bringing the whole world together and spreading the love HRH bigwayne

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shaun Thursday, 26 May 2011 at 4:39am

Waynker I get your point, I just don't agree with you. And sometimes as you do yourself, I'll disagree with you to get you to react for my amusement.

Hovercraft, if I wish to hear anything more from you, I'll rattle a bucket.

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seethesea Thursday, 26 May 2011 at 12:21pm

Great thread. 2nds blanks eh. These are found before gluing the stringer and are purely cosmetic in problems. There is no structural difference. The stringer and the laps in the glass are the back bone of a board. I can guarantee one thing, an air bubble or pour mark in foam will not affect the strength or performance of a surfboard.

Reject blanks are a different story but most shapers would not use them anyway.

I don't know any shapers that would have warrantied this board. Does Holden warranty your new Commodore against running it into a wall? How can you warranty the ocean or where you put your board. Your description sounds like you let the lip land on it. Even the strongest boards made will snap in this situation.

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bigwayne Friday, 27 May 2011 at 11:00am

mr thesea , so the possibility of the use of inferior product , while abhorant , is none the less there , thus making ones point . so in conclusion mr potato , taking in to account all the evidence , ones relentless investigation into your dilemma , and the "expert witnesses" called to the stand , including ones almightyself , we are in agreement that , you alone snapped your board , definately , maybe

this was bought to you by private "dick" to the stars HRH bigwayne