A surfers Constitution.

jbay's picture
jbay started the topic in Thursday, 30 Sep 2010 at 6:29pm

Acknowledge your fellowship with the waves by treating those around you with kindness and kinship. Always enjoy the waves in the spirit of sharing and goodwill. Be aware of the mixed abilities of surfers and respect that. Young, old, physically frail and those with less courage than yourself may need your respect to allow them the opportunity to learn or catch a wave. To be able-bodied and be given the experience/ privilege to paddle out at the same break every day does not give you rights over others.

If your craft allows you easier access than others then be aware that your status in the line-up is the same as any other person's. Many surfers come from afar to enjoy what you take for granted. If you lived 45min away, had a 9-5 job and had a child with a disability would you still be able to surf everyday and acquire the skill-sets to compete equally and fairly? Perhaps not, so give a little out there.

The ocean is a beautiful place that does not require aggression, greed or ownership. Encourage a line-up and involve your more experienced mates in doing the same. Speak with fairness and courage to your experienced mates to allow others with lesser abilities into the line-up. This creates a safe surfing environment, not only for the experienced surfer to impart knowledge, but also for young surfers to learn about appropriate behaviour. Make friends in the surf and it will become a place where those that need solace can find it. A true surfing legacy will be seeing young children developing their skills and learning about how to respect the ocean and his/her fellow man. Protect the ocean from harm and stand shoulder to shoulder with your fellow surfers to prevent pollution. Communication with the wild plumbs the depths of natural relationships and begs the question of man's purpose on the planet, so seek to be a respectful custodian and encourage others to become familiar with the beauty and many mysteries of the sea.

pete_79's picture
pete_79's picture
pete_79 commented Thursday, 30 Sep 2010 at 10:12pm

Nice work Jbay!!!
Some real food for thought in here, great points and well written, keep it up mate :)
Wouldn't it be great if more of our fellow surfers had this type of mentality.

freeride76's picture
freeride76's picture
freeride76 commented Thursday, 30 Sep 2010 at 10:30pm

If you are learning accept that you do not have an automatic sense of entitlement.
Just like a learner driver would not put themselves on a Formula One racecar track avoid crowds and difficult/expert surf spots.
Accept that your actions here put others in danger and cause chaos and discord.
Be humble when learning and show respect.
Eventually you will earn respect.
Learn that like all systems in Nature there is a functioning hierarchy at most surf spots, based on experience and skill.
When this hierarchy breaks down everyone suffers and aggression and danger become hallmarks of such spots.
Think twice before you enter such surf zones. Then think a third time.
If you don't have a basic command of skills including controlling your equipment, understanding etiquette, being able to safely enter and exit the water then go find somewhere more suited to your skill and experience level.
If you are riding an inherently dangerous vessel like a SUP please consider the effects of your actions on others. By choosing to surf in already crowded spots you are already making a statement of your intent. Understand why that causes discord and anger. Don't have a blindspot with regard to your own actions.
Respect the beach, the surf and those who play in it.
Pick up some litter everytime you go surfing.

jbay's picture
jbay's picture
jbay commented Friday, 1 Oct 2010 at 12:12am

Nobody has an automatic sense of entitlement. If you didn't get that...then you are the problem out there. Please consider that statement for a sec.

Once you understand your 'artificial'/imagined status is not helpful, it'll be a HUGE step in your self-development. heading out there and passing judgement on others. Who's better, worse and doesn't 'belong' is downright rude. What do they say..."down right un-Australian"? Do you live by giving others a fair go and you want to make a difference out there? Then give up your 'ownership'/ status as some local enforcer/jobo' and focus on leading by example.
There are big issues that need to be resolved. Think a little about making small changes to your own attitude and others will look up to you with 'earned respect'. If you are indeed a local privelaged to live a 'stones-throw' from your break (as I suspect) look back to the example I gave. There are many out there that overcome considerable challenges to even surf once a month, and they are not necessarily cooks.

freeride76's picture
freeride76's picture
freeride76 commented Friday, 1 Oct 2010 at 12:35am

"Once you understand your 'artificial'/imagined status is not helpful, it'll be a HUGE step in your self-development. heading out there and passing judgement on others".

Once you understand the basic concept of Respect it'll be a HUGE advancement in your self-development.
You don't rock up to a karate Dojo as a beginner and start sparring with the blackbelts.
You don't show up as a learner driver and get on the Formula One Track.
You don't show up in another Country and start expecting every-one to stop everything so you can lead your life as you want.
You show respect.
It's such a simple concept and you seem unable to grasp it.

Of course you try and educate and help but a huge problem is this concept of automatic entitlement that people new to the surf culture are inculcated with.
It was never that way historically.
People learned to surf at Beginner spots and as their skills and experience matured they graduated to more demanding spots, earning their place in the line-up.
That is the historical culture of Surfing, not this artifical "everyone's equal", everyone should be free to do what they want thing.
That, as can be seen very clearly in many line-ups leads to danger and frustration.

It's got nothing to do with any BS about local enforcer status.
Just simple respect.
Try it, it really works.

seaman-staines's picture
seaman-staines's picture
seaman-staines commented Friday, 1 Oct 2010 at 6:30am

Jbay. Whilst you have shown some nice sentiment in your constitution it is completely unrealistic.

As a resident of the Gold Coast and regular member of what some would consider the most disfunctional lineups on earth it is my opinion that your constitution would cause further stress and chaos than already exists.

I am by no means a local as I have lived here only 5 years but through respect and patience and some surfing skill I have gradually increased my standing to the point where I don't get too hassled by the long term locals. I am happy with this situation. I get a fair share of waves and never experience aggresion. I don't expect to be on the same level as those that have established themselves further up the heirachy.

I will admit that I show less respect to those who I feel are lower down the food chain than myself. This isn't arrogance, this is reality. It is my belief that if you are getting worked over by the crowd then you should go elsewhere. This is good for both the surfer and the lineup in general. I know my limits and I know where I don't belong. I would never go and surf big pipe and expect to be "one of the boys". When good waves are in short supply why should I let a full blown kook wobble his way down the line doing their best to completely avoid the barrel at every opportunity, fact is if I don't go someone else will.

I think to some degree you are fairly detached from the reality of surfing, I'm not sure if this is due to ignorance or whether you are a new participant to surfing. Surfers by nature have egos that loved to be massaged and surfers almost all competitive. Who doesn't want to get the best wave, longest barrel or clock up their fair share of waves every time you surf. I know I do.

kieru's picture
kieru's picture
kieru commented Friday, 1 Oct 2010 at 9:15am

arrogance! sorry, but that's my honest reaction to the preceding posts. i disagree with your version of respect and the imposition of your hierarchy. you do not surf for the same reasons as i do ..... no problem except that if i enter your lineup i am alienated by the force of numbers ..... surf culture (my stomach heaves as i type those two words) as you put it. you are part of the group that i disrespect and i will continue (40 years and counting) to do my best to keep away from you.

freeride76's picture
freeride76's picture
freeride76 commented Friday, 1 Oct 2010 at 9:26am

"you do not surf for the same reasons as i do"

How the hell do you know?
I surf by myself or with very few people 90% of the time.
I'll choose lesser wave quality in exchange for more room to move and less hassle.
I enjoy my surfing, I like being friendly to other people in the water.

But if I choose to enter a crowded line-up (especially an A-grade pointbreak) I don't expect existing hierarchies based on skill and experience to dissolve just for my benefit.
I'll take my place, smile, have fun and try and get my share.
No more, no less.
I've done that in line-ups all round the world for 30 years and I can count the hassles I've had in the surf on the fingers of one hand.
I was taught to show respect to earn Respect.
That seems to be an alien concept for some people, especially those who think the world revolves around them.

jbay's picture
jbay's picture
jbay commented Friday, 1 Oct 2010 at 10:44am

"I was taught to show respect to earn respect" Freeride. What the??? That's what I'm trying to drum into you mate. You can't head out onto the break thinking it's for the fastest, biggest, best or most frequent. They are YOUR VALUES and to bestow them on others requires CONSIDERABLE thought. As to your rationale of "oh well I'm allowed bec if you want to surf an "A-Grade" break it's like trying to walk onto a f1 Race track". Come on mate, how many of us out there on the big days are Kelly Slaters? Not one of us, not even you. At best we can sling a few cut-backs together and give ourselves a bit of a cheap thrill. I myself pin my ears back and bail like a baby. I'll say it again...many other blokes on the break may not be as good a surfer as you, they may be older, bung back etc but give them the same bloody rights as you mate. Let them in the lineup.
Being negative out there just perpetuates a cycle of animosity. The Grommets don't stay small forever. They paddle out onto the break and soon say "Fuck-off!" just as regularly as anyone else. Make a change dude. You'll love yourself for it.

freeride76's picture
freeride76's picture
freeride76 commented Friday, 1 Oct 2010 at 11:08am

"Make a change dude. You'll love yourself for it".

Make a change to what?
I have no problem getting waves, choosing uncrowded spots and sharing when I'm in a crowd.
Mostly I choose not to surf in a crowd.
I certainly don't think I'm any Kelly Slater, just a bloke whos been surfing 30 years and has a reasonable grasp on what's going on.
I'm not being negative in the water, I have overwhelmingly positive experiences in the Ocean and with fellow wave-riders (mostly because I'm not surfing super crowded spots or if I do I'm happy to get a few if they come my way)

Your the one getting hassled when you take your SUP out to crowded spots and trying to change everyone else so your selfish behaviour can be justified.

But you just don't get it do you.
You think it's everyone else who has the problem.
And that YOUR values are the ones that are correct.

You think your perfectly justified taking your SUP out to the most crowded Pointbreaks and then wondering why you get hassled.

You speak a lot of flowery language J-Bay but the blind spot you have in terms of your own behaviour is sort of bizarre.

jbay's picture
jbay's picture
jbay commented Friday, 1 Oct 2010 at 11:08am

To S-Stains, I thought I'd answer your question about why the surfers constitution. Without getting into 'some deep shit philosophy' I'm just trying to get a handle on why we are having so many issues of late in my local region of Northern NSW. We've had kids injured, fights, localism, crowded breaks, commercial opportunism etc. Where's all the love? What is it we want from our surfing? Is it to see our grommets perpetuate the same bad behaviour I see out on my own break? Why are we out there? How can we make a difference?
Someone put up a sign at my local break the other day. It said something like... "Everyone is in the pursuit of true happyness and that can be best recieved by giving not recieving. So don't be selfish out there". Being a father I see that with my own two boy's everyday. Counting 180 odd surfers out on the 18th Sept 2010 this may just have helped.

jbay's picture
jbay's picture
jbay commented Friday, 1 Oct 2010 at 11:22am

Hey Freeride, So sad that you seem to make it a personal issue. Just check your last email. Aweful lot of I, I, I stuff happening there. The issue is not about some schmuck like me paddling an SUP. It's about where surfings headed and what it's lost. Many older and more experienced than either of us will tell you that surf rage never existed before the shortboard. So don't set some kind of shrine around your weapon of choice. The short board has had it's own influence on surf etiquette. Much of it neg. That said it's still a full stop in surfings history.
Good luck to you mate I guess I expected a bit more.

seaman-staines's picture
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seaman-staines commented Friday, 1 Oct 2010 at 11:55am

I think the issue with violence, injuries, commercialisation and lack of love in the surf has a lot more to do with the numbers in the surf today and very little to do with the shortboard. I would love to turn back the clock and have the surf to myself but that is selfish. We all have a right to surf and we all have to start somewhere but you have to know where to start. There are far too many people who don't know where they belong in the lineup.

benski's picture
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benski commented Friday, 1 Oct 2010 at 12:22pm

Yeah look I'm not sure what all the fuss is about here but it does seem to me like jbay is suggesting we change the way surf line ups work. That seems a silly idea to me cos I reckon they work pretty well. I grew up surfing at Bondi, I've lived in brissie and been forced to do the weekly commute for waves to the gold or sunny coast, and now live on the sunny coast so I've surfed a few different places that rate as among the most crowded in the country. I've been hassled in the surf once in my life (been riding waves for 24 years) and it was when I was a teenager on a booger and I paddled out around the point at Burleigh. I got told to fuck off. Fair enough too I reckon. It was a magic day 4 foot light offshore and saturday morning. Crowds were a problem. I paddled a little further in and had an awesome session getting barrelled off my nut on the second peak out there that day.

When you've got a shit load of people crowding into small areas you've got to have some form of self regulation by the surfers themselves. What has always been the case (even before shortboards) is that the best surfers take the waves of their choice and the rest of us take our choice from whats left. The best surfers doesn't just mean the guy who does the best turn, it means the guy who puts himself in the best position to get the wave, knowing the break etc. This is an excellent way to self regulate. If you paddle out and get in the way, you're gonna get hassled, and rightly so. Also if you paddle out somwhere you've never been (or rarely been) you've got to realise you're paddling into a group of people who at least recognise each other. You need to do the hardyards to prove your place in the lineup because everyone else knows where they fit. That's quite a sensible thing because you aren't aware of the way things work in that particular lineup but everyone else is.

I can't see a problem with this. I've not been hassled in the water since I was a teenager and I get plenty of waves. I avoid the crowds as much as possible but when I surf a crowded lineup I get my share. I think if someone is having a hard time getting waves and generally getting hassled in the surf, then they're doing something wrong. It's not a problem with surfing, it's a problem with the person. You don't walk into the local tennis centre and start hitting on the number 1 court, you make a booking and follow the rules. Our rules aren't written out so clearly but they certainly exist and it's up to everyone to learn and follow them. This includes surfing places that suit your ability. For example I don't paddle out behind the rock at snapper when I'm down that way, I bob around at little marley's. I'll sit behind the rock at the boiling pot cos I've surfed it for many years, but when it's really on I'll leave it to the hot surfers and sit just inside and pick off the scraps.

You've seen some nasty stuff in northern NSW jbay? That would be consistent with what I've observed that peaceful hippies in that region are anything but that. They're a bunch of NIMBY bastards like the rest of us, so they'll get stroppy when the crowds come in, particularly if the crowds don't know the rules and etiquette required.

Oh and as for ettiquette, the worst I've seen (surfing from Bronte to Teewah) has been the grumpy old bastards on longboards at Noosa. Most shortboarders I've come across are alright.

nope's picture
nope's picture
nope commented Friday, 1 Oct 2010 at 10:16pm

well said benski!
three causes of frustrated surfs in my experiance are when the pros come to town. less waves for me, when inexperianced surfers get in the way. or as bad, surfers that think they know the rules. the rules are whats writen above. and the reality of the line ups world wide.
oh and crew that cant surf good and waste waves(waste as in fall on the takeoff) but you dont wanna sound rude by asking them to stop wasting waves.

you need to know YOUR place in any line up b4 you take a wave from anyone! sure as shit as soon as you ask some1 to move they take offence and start arguing. try paddling out at a spot and giving waves away youll soon be every1s mate and be called into waves also.

freeride76's picture
freeride76's picture
freeride76 commented Saturday, 2 Oct 2010 at 3:35am

"It's about where surfings headed and what it's lost. Many older and more experienced than either of us will tell you that surf rage never existed before the shortboard. So don't set some kind of shrine around your weapon of choice."

You're fond of making some pretty big assumptions J-Bay as well as being historically ignorant.
A shortboard is not necessarily my weapon of choice; I'll ride anything from 9'6" noseriders to shortboards, step-ups, semi-guns and even a SUP if it's tiny and I need some exercise.
I don't have a shrine around any piece of equipment but I'm very cognisant of the impact of various equipment choices on other people in the water. Something you seem blissfully (wilfully?) ignorant of.
I'd never surf a SUP in crowded surf, especially pointbreak surf. That is basically saying a big Fuck-off to the other people in the water.
With all due respect, this argument is just going around in circles. You don't seem to have any basic understanding of what other people are saying to you. I'm guessing your quite new to surfing.
To summarise the basic Philosphical difference. You seem to be saying that Surfing is or should be a basically democratic exercise where every-one from absolute beginners to the most highly skilled, dedicated and experienced are all on an equal footing and deserve equal access to the surfing resource including the most demanding and crowded breaks.
That is Pure Fantasy and always has been.
Surfing is a meritocratic activity, the Sport of Kings.
Always has been and probably always will be.
In actual fact the enforcement of this hierarchy was far more violently and rigidly controlled in the 70's, 80's and 90's.
Even Malibu in the 50's, the heyday of the Longboard Era, saw punch-outs and board collisions as cashed-up newbies invaded Southern California en masse post Gidget.
Ancient Hawaii was even more violently enforced.
So if your looking back for some sort of kinder, gentler Golden Age your looking in vain.
Yes, surfing is far more crowded now but what is remarkable is the Lack Of Violence in the water considering the level of frustration experienced at A-grade breaks on good days.
You say I'm making it a personal Issue. Yes I am. It's personal and it's universal.
Everyone has a choice about where they surf and how they behave.
Asking everyone else to change to accomodate your choices which clearly annoy and enrage a large proportion of the other people in the surf zone says alot more about you then it does the surf culture.
But your too busy looking everywhere else than at your own behaviour and choices for answers about why you keep encountering this "aggression and localism". Maybe before you paddle your SUP out at a crowded Pointbreak you should take a look in the mirror and ask yourself how that act is promoting the ideals you espouse.

jbay's picture
jbay's picture
jbay commented Saturday, 2 Oct 2010 at 5:58am

Hey Freeride, always great to see you respond. I don't know what to say about trying to discredit me. Another country, new to surfing, own SUP agenda and historically Ignorant? Wow, talk about some real journalistic integrity.

Firstly I'm was just dead keen to challenge us to think why we surf and love it so much. Are we contributing as much as we can and why do we have the issues we have. Yes, I've surfed the Pt on the rare occassion with a SUP, so what. That's not why I wrote on this forum. I love the ocean, and surfing too. In fact, as you very well know I was a short-boarder till Sept last year and still observed bad behaviour between surfers.

I think you've taken to some serious conflagrations and it's hard not to get personal with you. Firstly the issue of SUP's and them being some Leviathan, condemmed to the outer is crap. Take a look at your history again. The first board to surf Lennox Pt was a 12ft toothpick. Run down to "All Above Board" and take a look at the Barry Regan replica. NOOO?! Hey, that's much bigger than my SUP? To respect surfing is to awknowledge bigger/different boards and the role they have...and will play in surfing. True traditionalism and idealistic/purist sentiment would say Lennox Pt should only be ridden on a 12ft wooden hollow masterpiece. Jeez I'm not game, but what a beautiful thing.

My second issue I had with you is your misrepresentation of the Californian Coast Guard legislation declaring SUP's a 'vessel'. This seems your favourite statement. It's incorrect. The Californian Coast Guards primary motive was to manage the SUP's in open water. Not many short boarders venture 3km off shore, so go figure. In fact they went as far as exempting SUP's from this law if they remained within the surf zone. Your statement stating it was driven by how dangerous they are to other surfers is a PORKY-PIE!
It's local Counties that have jumped on the difference.

As to surf rage, you paint it both ways. In all your 30years of surfing you can count the incidents on your hand, then you state how violent the surf culture was in the 70's, 80's and 90's. Look I don't know much about your backround and I don't want to pass judgement so let me say anti-social behaviour is not what I'm willing to accept. To me Surf rage is a current issue and marked as a new disturbing trend by better educated than most.

My most important point is...forget that I've got some covert agenda. Read my 'silly' attempt at a surfers constitution and write your own. I'd love to see it. Then come over for a beer.

seal's picture
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seal commented Saturday, 2 Oct 2010 at 12:25pm

I've got a few things to add to the whole surf-rage, respect debate going on here. I started surfing back in the early 70s when you didn't dare drop-in,snake,paddle for or even look sideways at one of the older locals' waves without a good chance of a dunking or a backhander for your trouble. It was a bit rough on us grommets but we knew our place and respected the older locals and still got our fair share of waves. Sure its a lot more crowded now but there is none of the respect that was around back then or the 80s nowdays.
People new to the sport or from other areas think they can rock up and take what they want,with no regard for who was in the water before them waiting their turns and having a bit of order in the session,and then get pissed off when they get burnt or abused for being gready,ignorant cunts. Now I'm all for giving someone else a wave if they have been waiting their turn and fitting into the scheme of things, but if they are surfing out of their depth,for example, rank beginners surfing behind the rock at Snapper or out on a 6ft day at Keramas throwing their boards, going over the falls ect, the best thing you can do is tell them to go in before they kill someone or themselves.
Same goes with SUPs riding amongst crowded areas especially when there are young kids out, as one of those things hits you in the head and its all over.
If people knew their ability is not up to scratch for a certain break, they should't be out there but learning in an easier less crowded environment and showing some respect for the more experienced surfers when they get better and hit the harder breaks.

I remember my first trip to Hawaii in the 80s, I had the upmost respect for all of the locals and waited nearly an hour to get my first wave at Sunset and then another 1/2 hour for my second just so as I wouldn't be looked upon as a gready Aussie trying to take over and guess what, the local fellas let me get a few more without burning me on any and I became freindly with a couple who even remembered me when I went back a few years later and called me into a few of their waves.
Thats because I had respect, not expect, which is what alot of surfers unfortunatly do these days, expect to get what waves they want without gaining the skills or respect needed to surf that spot.

If it's not crowded and there are plenty of waves its great to call people into waves, but if it's packed and going off,I for one will not be giving anything up to people that have not gained some respect in my eyes or are going to probably kook it anyhow no matter what your constitution says, and I never think a SUP is ever going to gain respect for surfing amongst crowds no matter how skilled they are!

J-bay, with all this long board, SUP and wooden board stuff you are talking, you're not the famous Roy using another name by chance are you?

nope's picture
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nope commented Saturday, 2 Oct 2010 at 2:14pm

sorry kieru and any one who shares kierus opinion. you might find youll have more fun away from better surfers who are late droppin into the pit 10-20 meters deeper then you can take off...just facts...
if its crowded and your not in control dont bother please. if your not local dont even think about paddling inside.
pros do this and it shits me but thats the way it is. youll find as hard as you try they will always be in a better position for the best waves. thats why better surfers paddle inside lesser skilled surfers.

alva's picture
alva's picture
alva commented Sunday, 3 Oct 2010 at 4:24am

theres always one or two blokes out there that ruin it for the rest..MOST people have respect, and if i know a wave inside and out and im getting more waves because of it does this give someone the right to tell me to fuck off just because there older then me? what a joke...im not some "im local mate fuck off" because i know exactly where to surf and when, and sometimes ill give up surfing the pumping point break to surfing less crowded heaving shories souly because there is always bad vibes because of that one clown who is frustrated from the drive, hates his job or whatever else. because this fella probably surfs with a few heavies and throws out the whole pecking order in the line up causing disturbence and making it even worse then before. live to surf, surf to live.

kieru's picture
kieru's picture
kieru commented Sunday, 3 Oct 2010 at 7:14am

hi freeride, apologies for my presumptive response to your first post. perhaps we do share some motives.

hi nope, seems i need to be more specific cos you kinda missed my point. i'm not a beginner and i don't mind anyone who takes off inside unless they insist on taking every wave.

i guess i was lamenting what i see as a growing trend in the water ... those that don't show any version of respect to anyone or anything.

evidence exhibit no.1 - snapper rocks.

i recently sat out at little marley and watched the show. what i saw didn't leave me with impressions of grandeur, elegance or beauty.
in fact i couldn't find any connection with surfing's regal history.
more like a gang bang.
uncivilised creatures scratching and crawling over each other to be next in line to stuff the beautiful hole. drop in, gouge, smash, shred, bash then spray the ocean's face to complete the contempt.

i was originally attracted to surfing by the ocean's wild mesmerizing beauty. the surfing i saw at that time bejeweled this wonderful canvas.

respect for the ocean. respect for those who choose to enter. for me the latter is fading.

i'll keep to myself thanks!

seaman-staines's picture
seaman-staines's picture
seaman-staines commented Sunday, 3 Oct 2010 at 10:26am

Nothing wrong with a gang bang when the ladies look as good as firing snapper. What you need to do is learn to enjoy places like snapper for what they are, maybe you won't take her home to meet the folks but it's one hell of a ride while you can handle it.
I've learned to enjoy the hassle and hustle it takes to survive out there and when I'm not in the mood I look elsewhere.

nope's picture
nope's picture
nope commented Tuesday, 12 Oct 2010 at 12:21am

thats it kieru raped and abused but that is her fate in this world of stickers and free stuff and over population. ´we are like a virus with shoes´.

jbay's picture
jbay's picture
jbay commented Friday, 3 Dec 2010 at 2:43pm

Look... I started this stream to draw attention to the fact that it isn't really about what we want out of surfing because that seems pretty damn selfish. Surfing is bigger than that, it deserves more than our fucked-up ego's. What are we creating for our kids? What are we showing our sons, daughters, friends and mates when we paddle over to someone and treat them or the ocean with disrespect? We can always be greater men, leaders and bastions of a legacy. I don't think any bloke would like to see there son/ friend behave otherwise. Some of the basic rules like respecting the line-ups are so important. It teaches patience, timing and courtesy. It's no worse ignoring the line-up as a noob than it is for some experienced local to do the same. I've observed this at the Pass in Byron and several other breaks where a few more experienced surfers disregard the line-up because they consider fellow surfers they don't recognize or 'respect' as lesser than. How frustrating can this be for any surfer trying to learn. Inevitably his learning may turn full circle and he would perpetuate this behaviour of selfish surfing. As an experienced surfer we really are privelaged, none will dispute that. Can we use our surfing prowess with humility? Can we show leadership out on the break? Can we confront someone, even our more experienced mates if they don't respect the rules, and do so with leadership and diplomacy?
We are all equal but different. Different but no lesser than. A good/ experienced surfer can contribute greatly to the learning/ safety of lesser experienced surfers. Leading by example has never been easy, that is why true men are rare.

shaun's picture
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shaun commented Friday, 3 Dec 2010 at 8:55pm

J-bay from reading a few of your posts i have deducted that you are originally from J-bay, you sound like a native of J-bay, full of shit. You go on about peace love and respect, cept when your out on your stand up. Were you part of the J.B.U., they were into respect and lengths of 4 be 2s, you sound like a bit of a hypocrite, i haven't read every thing in this thread as all of it is so long winded and very blah,,blah blah after the fist few lines, so if you want to get your point across to us selfish,egocentric cave men, keep it brief.

I'm the scab you keep picking off and is there again the next day.

flipper's picture
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flipper commented Saturday, 25 Dec 2010 at 3:55pm

Nah after reading into it I'd have to commend J-bay on his ideals, although a little too new agey for my liking he has a very valid point that not only applies to surfing but life in general. I see the point in summary being " dont be a wanker be a good bloke, treat all with respect, walk your talk and make the world a good place by being a good person."
there is no need for line ups to be hostile places, surfing is about humans harmonising with energy, there are waves for everyone.well except for the really really fucked up crowded spots and why would you bother with them?

sunny's picture
sunny's picture
sunny commented Sunday, 26 Dec 2010 at 10:17am

Surf line ups are a reflection of what goes on on land. Always has been always will be.
Same shit different medium. Try surfing at night for a different line up vibe. LOL!

Life is good when ur tubed :-)

dial's picture
dial's picture
dial commented Sunday, 26 Dec 2010 at 12:14pm

Surf line ups are a reflection of what goes on on land. Always has been always will be.
Same shit different medium. Try surfing at night for a different line up vibe. LOL!

By: "sunny"

I disagree. People on land behave differently to the way they drive and surfing reminds me of driving. The thing that gets me driving and surfing is that some people will snake you and then think they can do it a second time! These people, on land, wouldn't even think about trying it the first time.

Case in point. Go to the any pub on the Ayre Peninsula and you'll meet some of the nicest blokes around. Go surfing and one of the locals show up, say G'day and they'll tell you to f' off and tell you to go in!!? And like it's only the 2 of you out there. WTF is that all about.

sunny's picture
sunny's picture
sunny commented Monday, 27 Dec 2010 at 12:15am

Not going to argue with Dial me ol. That is a fair case in point in South OZ. The general vibe in the line ups seem to upped the anti just in a similar way that the way we live on land has sped up and become more competitive and agressive so has the line ups in OZ.

Life is good when ur tubed :-)

nope's picture
nope's picture
nope commented Monday, 27 Dec 2010 at 2:40pm

im a prick at my local. and a gentle man on the roads and while not surfing at my local. i see late-middle aged men as the main offenders on the roads (appart from a lot of uneducated-by-experiance youngsters) and the minimal riding hummble dudes in the line ups. sorry for generalising...buuut....

shaun's picture
shaun's picture
shaun commented Monday, 27 Dec 2010 at 8:52pm

Nope, when your in your gentleman persona and the locals are giving you waves do you ever think, gee maybe I should tone it down a bit at home. I too am a prick in the water at home, but if some bloke paddle out sits at the end of the line and says g'day well it's pretty hard not to let him in and have a go. But I have no respect for the the bloke who paddles out and expects get the next wave because he thinks he's a hot surfer, or the one that makes me puke "The ocean belongs to everyone man"

I'm the scab you keep picking off and is there again the next day.

nope's picture
nope's picture
nope commented Monday, 27 Dec 2010 at 10:11pm

mostly agree.
i get down after ive let myself get angry. only for that anger as it causes bad vibes for every one. but locals snaking in a line up with massive crowds? nah. and yes im a prick to guys bigger then me too. somtimes to my humilliation when they play the toughie card. i dont believe in hitting a dog why a human?
i get annoyed if a dude at his empty local wants to be a prick but i remember that its not my place to talk.
just like laws on land...
ill ad; respect isnt fear. gangs in hawaii and burleigh are dicks. the ´hot surfer´ if is so much better should find the best waves anyway. it blows my mind how they do it but they always do.
and the try hard not so great guy can get effed hay shaun?
if the silent majority in all societys spoke up fear wouldnt be needed to sort out the problems we have in the world... well i reckon.

nope's picture
nope's picture
nope commented Tuesday, 28 Dec 2010 at 12:02am

oh and the guys that live somwhere for a year or two, get in the ´click´ and start acting like local ´heavys´ are possibly the biggest contributers to a unsure confused line up situation. them and the mates of mates who also know someone and feel its their right to skip past the exsisting ligit heirachy.
calmly speak up silent majority you are the ones the people listen to!

shaun's picture
shaun's picture
shaun commented Tuesday, 28 Dec 2010 at 2:56am

Yep,Nope I agree with ya. Good to see I'm not alone in grumpy local world, that said hope I never run into you in the surf.

I'm the scab you keep picking off and is there again the next day.