Mid length surfboards
True LD, the times i've had it in 4ft surf it's been amazing, need to do it more!
I have had a transcendental experience with board design at the moment….I am using my knifey 7ft gun in small surf. Put some large AM2s in the side as a Twinine. It’s essentially a long twin pin now.. you get all the benefit of paddle power, drive and projection but with looseness. Never thought I would find a 7ft gun becoming my most versatile board.
Has anyone else experienced with using a gun instead of a midlength and mixing up the fin configuration (For what it’s worth I am normally a dedicated shortboarder but am finding it hard to justify with conditions and crowd a lot of the time)?
Rode my 8'6 DS as a twin yesterday in 1-2ft beach break. Went well.
I saw on Insta Will Webber’s been enjoying tiny fins in one of his 9’4 rolled double guns in the small stuff.
I also remember seeing an old salty sea dog riding his big Desert Storm in onshore 1ft Southport (Hump) back a few years ago, looked like he was having fun.
TC on his Rawson 7’0.
Long Twin with Krypt Power Drive fins
Anyone ridden those fins and vouch for the claims they make? The active laminar flow concept certainly sounds good, though both Kelly and Tom could ride a car door.....
The great thing, and somewhat of a revelation of the mid length twin is the fact that in pretty much any board over 7' the front fin position for a board set up as a tri fin, seems to adapt quite well to whacking a set of twins in. The longer rail line, and hold it gives allows the fins further forward. Shortboard fin placement for twins are no further forward than 9", unless you want a super loose, squirrelly thing. That's what I'm finding with my tinkering anyway.
@Tiger,
Mate of mine has been exclusively riding Gary McNeill's boards since Formula Energy days, and they started playing around with that idea a long time ago. Not sure of exact year, but well before the current long twin thing began.
They began by seeking manouvreability in a longer board designed for an older bloke - my mate's positively ancient - and they found the twin gave them turning capacity while the longer rail line made up for lack of centre fin and stability. No doubt rocker comes into it too.
Not sure of measurememnt, but some of their boards had the fins way forward.
Bit of history on Gary
https://afends.com/blogs/behind-the-brand/15060447-gary-mcneill-concepts
Sounds about right Stu. Most stuff has been tried by someone before. Timing is everything I guess, the mini mal was a much maligned and scoffed at style of surfboard not so long ago.
The stuff that MOE and Torren etchave come up with have sexified the mini mal. Suddenly it's hip and cool, and everyone's going through a mid length crisis! I'm jumping on the bandwagon as much as anyone!
Same.
The thing with me, however, is that I scoffed harder than anyone at the mid length twin, even when Gaz and my mate - who I dare not name - started having success.
Now he looks like a 65-year old trendsetter.
Age is actually an amazing teacher , as we get older , have health issues etc.....still want to surf but wave counts down , body hurts from paddling shorter boards....so more foam , but how....????
more Length/width and thickness , easy , but are there hulls out there being designed to make mid -lengths more high performance , but still easy to surf....I have been riding mid lengths since the cancer drugs slowed the body , and mind...then suddenly there was a whole new world of design in surfboards to be explored.........
I did a Twin keel Pin 2 years ago for Real water Sports USA.......one of the amazing unexpected results was how good the board go in barrels , let alone long walled waves like down here......just made a 6 3 for Nick carrol , same feedback....barrel riders , supa fast , easier to paddle in.....
https://www.realwatersports.com/collections/maurice-cole-reverse-vee-twi...
I think it' s pretty easy to say there has been way more design work done in Hybrids than the CT surfers boards......so mid lengths are a very positive .....I ride an 8 6 x 22 x 3 TP.....high tide small Rincon , or low tide double overhead Bells....
Tiger wrote
The great thing, and somewhat of a revelation of the mid length twin is the fact that in pretty much any board over 7' the front fin position for a board set up as a tri fin
Yep agree
16 3/4'' is the number I use, front of side fin to end of tail.
stunet wrote:Same.
The thing with me, however, is that I scoffed harder than anyone at the mid length twin, even when Gaz and my mate - who I dare not name - started having success.
Now he looks like a 65-year old trendsetter.
Spose it's now to late to delete that comment..?
I have it on good advice Stu that your old mate is just about to complete 67 laps around the sun and yes his boards are possibly ahead of the curve so to speak! Apparently he’s never had more fun surfing and importantly appreciates every damn wave! Hope ya well!
philosurphizingkerching wrote:Tiger wrote
The great thing, and somewhat of a revelation of the mid length twin is the fact that in pretty much any board over 7' the front fin position for a board set up as a tri finYep agree
16 3/4'' is the number I use, front of side fin to end of tail.
Yeah. What I'm finding is the shorter the board the less margin of error in twin placement.
Bought a 7' Chili Mid Strength and surfed it for the 1st time last night in tiny waves, it went exactly as I imagined. Picked up waves early and easy and trimmed down the line, I couldn't gauge how the twin fins and nub affected the ride because trimming was all that I could do, but I was surfing on a late arvo that I'd usually write off as too small and having fun.
This board and the last one I spent a lot of time thinking before buying, i.e. length, volume and the waves I want to use them for, ones 6' and now a 7'er, both are vastly different but riding them as twins, and not looking back. The Mid Strength is really a quad or thruster set up but I'm trialing it as twin 1st, interesting to hear Tiger's comments on thrusters over 7' having fin box placement suited to popping twins into.
Keep in mind, an alternative to actual mid length is the short "pretend" mid length.... for those who are say below 85kg and still reasonably nimble.
A 6'3" up to to 6'6" wide (21"), thicker (say 38 to 42 litre), flat rocker board can catch waves fairly easily, rides like a mid length (fast down the line speed) from a forward trim but then feels like a short board from the sweet spot(s) further back. Plus you can still duck dive them (just) which is a huge plus. And, out in surf with random peaks and a bit of a crowd (e.g. like Dbah) you can fit in the line up swinging around quickly to grab a peak and dodging people in your way when on a wave. I took an 8 foot mid length out to Dbah once and felt like a danger to others paddling out due to the straighter lines it took and out of place in the peaky fast take offs. Now on my 6'3" mid length I would fit in a lot better in such a line up if I chose.
I still get surprises from my 6'3" when I shoot through a fast section with effortless speed feeling like I am forward trimming an eight footer. Then when I hit an open face I get surprised again when I step back onto the tail and do a fast, tight slash. On a fast A frame peak I can sort of side slip straight into the pocket or handle the tight curve at the bottom of the wave if forced to bottom turn. A true mid length closes off some options.
The shorter option can be two boards in one if you surf them right.
There are a lot around now and I have noticed that many older guys on them seem to stay in the forward trim zone going fast in down the line waves with minimal effort and so ride them mainly like a mid length. That is okay, but they miss the short board carving opportunities - sort of obscuring the board's versatility. This may be inclination or age? But also, often I think people get locked into one foot position out of habit and never even realise what they are missing.
Given my experience, often when watching Torrens on his mid length twin I felt he was having to be very precise to get the length to fit into the waves curves. I kept imagining another fin, a bit thicker to compensate and a foot shorter and him just cutting loose a lot more.
Just to elaborate a little further Ash. Every board is going to have an optimal fin placement. Let's say a 6' shortboard. As a tri fin, I set the front fins at 11 1/8" up from tail to the rear of the finbase. Twins at that distance, way to squirrelly. On a 6' board I set twins at 9", or even further back depending on different factors.
Now a 7' mid length as a tri, I set the front fins at 11 3/4". Twins subbed in there will work fine, optimally I would have them back a tiny bit more, but you can get away with it.
Bear in mind I'm talking about dedicated twins, if you using a rear stabiliser or nubbin or whatever, then you're just riding a thruster.
But as per what I'm saying. It's much easier to achieve something that will work as a twin, tri and everything in between in that mid length zone.
Hey Frog which board are you refering too........?
Mine is a pop out Highline by Modern - sold as a board for old farts and beginners but that offers much more if you ride it right. The Baked Potato, Sweet Potato and Lost Puddle Jumpers would be a "cooler" options but probably surf much the same. This type of board has evolved a lot over recent years and they all know what works and have copied each other.
Gmac makes a great long twin. I have a 6’10. Definitely more of a “shortboard” type foil than a lot of midlength twins I’ve seen, knifey rails and decent amount of rocker. My brief was “paddle, early entry and glide of a midlength but something you can still throw around and rip on”, he absolutely nailed it.
Tiger the "mid zone" is a very interesting zone indeed, lots of room to experiment. I know I'll be mucking around with fins for some time with this board.
The best thing about mid lengths is they favour the generationally advanced surfer yet they're trendy as all hell.
I’m really fortunate to be in a position to have a quiver that ranges from 5.11 through to 8.2 and they are all twins. For the boards 6.6 and up to the 8.2 I don’t regard them as mid length but as performance twins. I’ve been lucky enough to have many conversations with Gary McNeill to discuss the variables that include length,width, thickness, outline, rocker, channels both Torus and tail, fin placement and tail edge sanding. There’s decades of his knowledge and experience that has gone into the boards he’s making and there’s many great Australian shapers doing work that deserve support. Anyone that wants some insight should contact him directly or check his website. Bottom line is a quote from Rasta that “there’s no bad surfs just bad board choices!”
Hope this helps.
Tweaked my back splitting firewood pre yesterdays surf, waited for an hour or two went surfing on the new ML and caught far more waves than I have in ages and woke this morning with generationally advanced surfer syndrome, but not feeling trendy at all.
From Nav, for Needs:
Generationally advanced syndrome! That’s bloody funny but it’s a great way to express a positive vibe to those working hard to stay healthy and fit to be chasing that certain feeling that surfing provides.
"Generationally advanced syndrome! "
yeh, classic, ...careful with those mid lengths, ...splitting wood, too much coffee, and an anti-inflamnatory...
next day can be expensive
frog's all over it, ...giving too much away...
but yes, most people get stuck in that one position ...which is understandable... because they go and go and go in that front position, take a step back at the right time, and it is surprising what they can do...
can see how the longer ones dont fit in at dbah too, all about the lines...
been playing around with those cheap shorter kook boards for a while... would love to have a go on the more refined ones he mentions, but... too many boards... too much cash...
Some boards look so good, you could almost sleep with them......and talk.....and caress...as you drift into sweet slumber...
That's my G.A.S
giving too much away as well megzee
but yes, some of those freaky new old shapes look more sexy than the high performance stuff
markxxx wrote:Gmac makes a great long twin. I have a 6’10. Definitely more of a “shortboard” type foil than a lot of midlength twins I’ve seen, knifey rails and decent amount of rocker. My brief was “paddle, early entry and glide of a midlength but something you can still throw around and rip on”, he absolutely nailed it.
markxxx wrote:markxxx wrote:Gmac makes a great long twin. I have a 6’10. Definitely more of a “shortboard” type foil than a lot of midlength twins I’ve seen, knifey rails and decent amount of rocker. My brief was “paddle, early entry and glide of a midlength but something you can still throw around and rip on”, he absolutely nailed it.
You are replying to your own post mate.
OOps sorry mark i see what you did there.
and yeah Gary makes some sweet boards with perfect rails. a bit low volume for me when i was fat but great performance boards. I had a 6'3 entity step up (rounded pin tail and longer length) when he was with formula energy and asked for more drive than turn with the toe in more square and further back fins.
It was one of the best tube riding boards ive ridden besides a lid.
Designed it for supersuck and desert point like waves but only surfed it in north point and a few cronulla reefs and ausie pipe. it didnt feel right for aussie pipe as the fins felt awqward on a crowded day when i couldnt get warmed up only caught about three waves, one of those running over a boogers back but he was ok. anyway the board couldnt cutback unless shuffling back foot onto the tip of the tail.
Thats why it was good for north point, no cutbacks needed. didnt take it to indo, i got broke and needed to sell it.
Would have been a better board in assymetrical shape and asym fins.
I reckon most twins are set way too far forward. The best twinnie I've ridden (my 5'10 Pyzel Astro) has the fins at 6". Suck on that! Fast as all getup, and hold like a thruster.
frog wrote:Keep in mind, an alternative to actual mid length is the short "pretend" mid length.... for those who are say below 85kg and still reasonably nimble.
A 6'3" up to to 6'6" wide (21"), thicker (say 38 to 42 litre), flat rocker board can catch waves fairly easily, rides like a mid length (fast down the line speed) from a forward trim but then feels like a short board from the sweet spot(s) further back. Plus you can still duck dive them (just) which is a huge plus. And, out in surf with random peaks and a bit of a crowd (e.g. like Dbah) you can fit in the line up swinging around quickly to grab a peak and dodging people in your way when on a wave. I took an 8 foot mid length out to Dbah once and felt like a danger to others paddling out due to the straighter lines it took and out of place in the peaky fast take offs. Now on my 6'3" mid length I would fit in a lot better in such a line up if I chose.
I still get surprises from my 6'3" when I shoot through a fast section with effortless speed feeling like I am forward trimming an eight footer. Then when I hit an open face I get surprised again when I step back onto the tail and do a fast, tight slash. On a fast A frame peak I can sort of side slip straight into the pocket or handle the tight curve at the bottom of the wave if forced to bottom turn. A true mid length closes off some options.
The shorter option can be two boards in one if you surf them right.
There are a lot around now and I have noticed that many older guys on them seem to stay in the forward trim zone going fast in down the line waves with minimal effort and so ride them mainly like a mid length. That is okay, but they miss the short board carving opportunities - sort of obscuring the board's versatility. This may be inclination or age? But also, often I think people get locked into one foot position out of habit and never even realise what they are missing.
Given my experience, often when watching Torrens on his mid length twin I felt he was having to be very precise to get the length to fit into the waves curves. I kept imagining another fin, a bit thicker to compensate and a foot shorter and him just cutting loose a lot more.
Agree with your thoughts frog. What I love about the gun as an alternative is the refined rails and rocker. You can rip and glide. A lot of mid lengths seem to have too much nose area, flat and an only really glide. Makes me question my all round 5’10 shortboard.. tempted to try a 6’3 or so next board. 7”0 gun also easy to duck dive and manoeuvre in a line up. Froth factor! Yew
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^^ 70x 19 3/8 x 2 5/8 made for G-Land (or everyday Queensie) haha
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Hang a set of these off your Middie or D.S.
JW - Middie price check...Faaark
Firk that Udo hey
Targeting the new North Byrondi market.
I rode a twin pin style 4 channel mid-length this morning and was really surprised how loose and manoeuvrable it was for its size. Almost seemed like I was surfing a board that was, say 6” or 8” shorter. I’m found myself thinking wow, this is easier to paddle and get waves on, plus it turns.
Is that the norm for that style of board relative to thruster, 2+1 or quads?
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Better put your new Middy pics up also Craig long toes
Yeah will get some proper photos of it on the weekend, it's a beauty!
Pics Crangle...
Just after getting a mid length surfboard shaped for surfing waves around Victor harbour region.
Something that's going to go well in small shitty beach breaks kinda stuff.
I've always liked Black Apache surfboards but can't seem to get hold of them at the moment.
Anybody know if they're still shaping boards or have other recommendations for a mid length board?
Cheers.