The Israel Palestine problem solving thread
Hahaha
- “ And yes Hamas can be taken out of power which removes the threat greatly especially if replaced by a system of government that aims to prevent their rise again as a terrorist group. “
https://theintercept.com/2018/02/19/hamas-israel-palestine-conflict/
^^^…oooooops ;)
- might have to carefully define ‘a system of government that aims to prevent their rise again as a terrorist group’.
Supafreak wrote:@indo , hamas negotiates for prisoner /hostage swap, they don’t negotiate for peace and couldn’t be trusted if they did . There’s two sides to this war , I believe both hamas and the current Israel government needs to be outed . For this to happen change needs to come from within on both sides. Again a big ask .
Again i 100% agree with that "I believe both hamas and the current Israel government needs to be outed"
The problem is Gaza hasnt had an election since 2006 so only way they can be taken out of power is by force.
Nentanyu will be taken out of power at the latest by election in 2026 but very likely sooner and likely end up in jail on corruption charges pre war issue.
But don't kid yourself into thinking any other leader or party would handle this war differently, it's a war supported by the majority* of Israeli's and even the mindset of the majority of left in Israel has said to have changed dramatically since 7th October.
* Yes there is always a minority that have different views.
Like I said indo , change needs to come from within on both sides. This means the people/ citizens of this region need to ask themselves if they want peace , then what are they prepared to do in order to achieve this ? Government change and policies need a huge shake up in Israel . Destroying hamas needs to be an inside job . There was tolerance before , no reason it can’t happen again , it’s going to take some reverse brainwashing and with people so traumatised, a lot of outside help. If the US can fund wars around the world then surely they can rebuild what they help destroy . Hahaha yeah I’m tripping I know , the US can’t even help their own suffering people.
indo-dreaming wrote:Jelly Flater wrote:^^^ hmmmm ;)
-“ …I said at the very start of this whole episode that it’s basically futile to try to understand the conflict and is plain stupid and ignorant to take sides”
- yet on page 2 of this thread u posted a tweet from the idf supposedly with audio of ‘terrorists’ admitting to a misfired rocket hitting a hospital… and that piece of audio (like several other fabricated idf audio or video based on fake stories and doctored by israeli censors / creators) was proven to be completely false and exposed as lies and propaganda ;)
… I can agree with …ummm …“ I’ve nearly never seen such misguided idiotic behaviour in my whole life. “ haha
No sides is no sides.
- no winners, no warThe big news story from the hospital carpark incident was the fact that it was found that the Hamas-run health ministry was absolutely full of shit on every single aspect of their story.
-No its wasn't an IDF missle like they claimed, yes it was a misfired rocket supposedly from Islamic Jihad
-No it did not kill 300 people, experts said it would have been lucky to kill half a dozen if in the carpark area, and in all likelihood there might not have even been one person killedAnd if you had watched any of the blast sight videos, you would be able to see that the blast site was maybe two foot deep and even surrounding windows stayed intact, confirming how little impact it had.
And lets not forget the same Hamas health ministry that was caught out spinning absolute bullshit are the same ones who provide death toll numbers and other info.
But who lapped it up, yep you just like every other piece of Hamas propaganda.
Jelly surely you are not referring to the Al-Ahli Baptist Hospital incident? Pretty sure from memory you were blaming Israel from the get go on that(apologies if I am wrong on that version of events) but are you saying the evidence of a misfired rocket from the jihadists is a Israeli fabrication/conspiracy?
https://www.timesofisrael.com/idf-presents-evidence-misfired-gazan-rocke...
For infodreamer... The brilliant ABC's NEMESIS... showing the Nation just how dishonest, deceitful, opportunistic, self-interested and completely lacking any ounce of integrity that is the LNP.
The Libs... always putting the Nation's interests first LOL.
@bonza
- I referred specifically to the proven fake audio tape from the idf.
As stated numerous times, and just to clarify… again…
- both sides lie, both sides deceive, both use propaganda ;)
Both have been caught out and both are guilty.
It’s not a competition or comparison contest…
indo-dreaming wrote:Supafreak wrote:indo-dreaming wrote:Supafreak wrote:GuySmiley wrote:“ … Again how often have you seen anyone here let alone those people say, this war could end tomorrow if Hamas surrendered and handed over those kind napped ..”
This naive question assumes Israel is entirely innocent here and that it has not waged a death by a thousand cuts war on the Palestinians since the ‘67 war. Hamas has not risen to power in a vacuum FFS and sadly but not unsurprisingly is apparently still popular given the genocide inflicted on the Palestinians of Gaza. IMO the war has never ended since ‘67 with Israel never taking its eye off the prize, a prize even supported here, and sadly it will continue indefinitely, slowly quietly taking over more and more Palestinian land until the next big blow up…
@indo , is this comment from GS that you are referring too ? If so I don’t understand your interpretation that he’s supporting hamas . I think the problem is indo , that any criticism of Israel is seen in your mind as support for hamas . Sypkan summed up his thoughts of both sides and I agree on how fucked up and evil hamas are . No easy solutions in this mess . Anyway enjoy your day and time away from this thread .
Yeah right he is clearly making excuses for Hamas on why they should not surrender and hand back the hostages.
So can you give me one reason why the rest of the world shouldn't all be demanding that Hamas surrender and hand over the hostages????
I can’t give you one reason why they shouldn’t surrender, but I don’t believe they will ever surrender. It’s not in their makeup, they are extremists that don’t give a fuck about the consequences of what they do . They are madmen , you can’t negotiate peace with madmen. It wouldn’t matter what was on offer. Do you believe that Israel should exterminate them at the cost of 2 million people living in gaza ? Do you believe that would stop them ? I can’t see it . Can you ?
100% agree with you there, imagine trying to negotiate with Hamas, but the reality is they are negotiating all the time trying to get deals done on the hostage's, its amazing the first deal got done really.
The cost in civilian life's will never be 2 million, but yes pretty much all wars come with civilian deaths, do you think we should have just left the Nazi's to be because civilian's died in destroying the Nazi's and Hitler?
And yes if the Nazi's and Hitler were in power today there would also people wanting the war against them stopped because of civilian deaths.
And yes Hamas can be taken out of power which removes the threat greatly especially if replaced by a system of government that aims to prevent their rise again as a terrorist group.
They can also be severally weakened as a terrorist group, that's where people need to listen to military experts, every tunnel destroyed(especially major), every stock pile of rockets or weapons destroyed, every factory that makes rockets, every leader with experience can be taken out, but it takes time.
Destroying the tunnels will take a very long time and not all will ever be destroyed, the smaller tunnels that are for fighting aren't as important as destroying the major tunnels for instance, the ones that house fighters and leaders , house rockets, rocket production facilities, and the ones that link areas and used by leaders to escape.
Even today Hamas are not as strong as they were in all regards, but it would also be crazy to only wound them, and let them heal to live another day and grow strong again.
Lets say even at this stage if Hamas have been set back ten years in strength, in reality that has also prevented them from growing stronger by a certain period too, opposed to if they had just been left alone after 7th October which would have seen them grow much stronger in time and become and even greater threat, so no matter when this war ends it will not be in vain.
BTW. In regard to your other post above, what Israel do after the war also dictates the future, Israel helping in rebuilding for the people is important.
And er.. in breaking news…….
“i forgot how much of a fuckwitt he is with his loaded language & viewpoints.“
its not about being a hero jellyman
its about some posters dancing around in the shadows... seemingly too chicken to say what they really think...
the nearest you've come to showing a clear position - aside from the endless hamas propaganda - was the elephants leaving the promise land...
and even that was like extracting teeth... or a tusk...
keep dancing dude, I don't really give a fuck
just probing for some clarity, ...probing your lazy lover position...
because I am curious who do you actually want to run the joint...
atm, you look like germany pre tump...
all high and mighty and shit, laughing at him calling out their lazy lover NATO contributions, laughing at him pointing out their lazy russian dependence, laughing at him about a heap of shit...
and now look at them!
not so much laughing...
anyway, as you were, this is boring now
Too right, u are boring ;)
…it’s not about who anyone wants running the joint.
- and we’re back at square one ;);)
…war is a racket, military industrial complex haha
There are methods at play and storylines to write
- believe what u will, dance your dance
I agree… I don’t give a fuck
- but good luck with the conscription narratives etc coming outta the UK
Jelly Flater wrote:@bonza
- I referred specifically to the proven fake audio tape from the idf.As stated numerous times, and just to clarify… again…
- both sides lie, both sides deceive, both use propaganda ;)Both have been caught out and both are guilty.
It’s not a competition or comparison contest…
Ok cool. So juts to be clear for my sakes cause I am genuinely interested- is this the audio you are claiming is fake? If not which audio, bombing and hospital are you referring to that Israel fabricated?
IDF releases a recording of an intercepted phone call between two Hamas operatives who discuss the failed Islamic Jihad rocket that landed on the Gaza hospital. pic.twitter.com/ozoXclXLxD
— Emanuel (Mannie) Fabian (@manniefabian) October 18, 2023
Supafreak wrote:Like I said indo , change needs to come from within on both sides. This means the people/ citizens of this region need to ask themselves if they want peace , then what are they prepared to do in order to achieve this ? Government change and policies need a huge shake up in Israel . Destroying hamas needs to be an inside job . There was tolerance before , no reason it can’t happen again , it’s going to take some reverse brainwashing and with people so traumatised, a lot of outside help. If the US can fund wars around the world then surely they can rebuild what they help destroy . Hahaha yeah I’m tripping I know , the US can’t even help their own suffering people.
agree
but will add...
it's about more than 'madmen'
it's about a jihadi mindset
and a wider indoctriation, aided and abetted by unrwa... and us...
decades in the making, 'leaders' have really dropped the ball on this one...across the board...
will take decades to undo - if that's even now possible...
US now pledged billions as part of their... cough cough... border deal...
should be able to build a country with that - but I doubt it...
unrwa is an interesting one... wong and co. wants to return funding, liberals will have a field day with that one...
by any measure, that 'aid' appears to have been / and will, fund and facilitate terrorism...
what a mess!
https://twitter.com/KosherCockney/status/1730545956356059502
@bonza, thnx for the interest / concern…
U can go find whatever u need for specifics if u like
- it’s a bit like the 40 farkn decapitated babies etc
… we could go over the nakba
- pick apart Oct 7 again and again
..and go over illegal West Bank settlements
Good luck to u with all that ;)
- as long as there is mutual blame and continued unverified recordings / reports etc it’s just a shit show of second hand info
We both don’t know a lot, all the best with your crusade.
Thanks jelly. So I’ll take that as you posted a lie about a specific event. At least evidence I juts referred to was not known at the time when the attacked occurred when you posted your original damnation back in October. But now several months after the fact you are still claiming that event as an Israel fabrication.. Happy to be proven otherwise.
@supa. There is some context for you when considering your questions to indo.
… haha
- u go bonza, stroke that ego.
We’re just two blokes on the other side of the world talking about something that happened last year.
You can’t verify it as undisputed fact, and I don’t have anything here to ‘prove’ something - something neither of us can prove.
Take whatever I post as a lie, just as u try take anything else u read or see as fact ;)
An Israeli report of an investigation about something they posted is not exactly any independent proof of evidence.
No different to the UN independent internal investigation stuff.
- u are free to believe what u like, enjoy the crusade ;)
….ooooh ;)
- evidence haha
- nothing fabricated or ‘produced’ ;);)
https://m.
lol. Okay jelly. That’s your response “You can’t verify it as undisputed fact”. I just did. Show me I’m wrong. I’ll own it.
What else have you been wrong about? You just posted a lie that Israel fabricated audio evidence to make it seem that the idf bombed the hospital when it was really the jihadists.
What else have you been wrong about? Did you willfully post that bullshit or was it a mistake? Let my ego have it.
Haha ;)
- undisputed fact u say haha
How exactly ?
- maybe I’m mixing it up with the footage time stamped from before the actual explosion…. haha I don’t give a fuck ;)
Get ya war chub all u want.
- if I used the word ‘specifically’ and I did in error then my bad, my mistake ;)
However, your claims are just as verified as the decapitated babies…
- they’re just claims
… hope u liked the vid above tho, nothing to see there ;);)
So you’ re wrong? You posted a lie and you admit it? Is that what you are saying ? See that wasn’t hard. What else have you been wrong about?
….but you don’t give a fark. Yes that bit has always been clear.
Thanks jelly. Good chat
If you ever need more fact checking help hit me up at #ilovePalestinianstoo.
Supafreak wrote:Like I said indo , change needs to come from within on both sides. This means the people/ citizens of this region need to ask themselves if they want peace , then what are they prepared to do in order to achieve this ? Government change and policies need a huge shake up in Israel . Destroying hamas needs to be an inside job . There was tolerance before , no reason it can’t happen again , it’s going to take some reverse brainwashing and with people so traumatised, a lot of outside help. If the US can fund wars around the world then surely they can rebuild what they help destroy . Hahaha yeah I’m tripping I know , the US can’t even help their own suffering people.
There was never tolerance before, Hamas has been attacking Israel since the 80s first as a terrorist group and then after Israel handed over Gaza in a peace deal, then the newly elected Hamas broke the peace deal and still attacked Israel, and have on and off every since.
Depending on the size of rocket attacks, Israel either just did nothing and let the Iron dome handle things, or did targeted retaliation strikes in the hope that it deterred Hamas.
Then Israel got complacent and let their guard down and 7th October happened which is the straw that broke the camels back, and they are now trying the only thing that has never been tried and that is to try to destroy Hamas.
But destroying Hamas cant be an inside job, that would only mean taking out leaders in Gaza, and while taking out leaders is important, they can still be replaced, to take out Hamas you need to take out everything related to Hamas, as much military capacity and military infrastructure as possible, all the things ive mentioned in other post, plus yes leaders and also other important figures like those that have studied in Iran on how to build a develop rockets and weapons in Gaza.
Anyway Israel has been trying to assassinate many of these leaders for years, but for the couple big ones in Gaza, now is the time Israel has the most chance of getting them, they are bassically involved in a game of cat and mouse
But then there are the other leaders sitting safe in Qatar you can assume they are safe for now though as Qatar plays an important part in being middle man in hostage negotiations, if the IDF assassinated Hamas leaders in Qatar, you would expect that would mean risking losing that middle man for negotiations.
Haha …. righto bonza ;)
- u are a funny cunt, here start with ya fact checking below
…there is a smorgasbord for u ;);)
- even specifics
Are you gonna admit u were wrong about idf fabrications and false stories ?
- and how again is the audio u posted actual undisputed fact haha ?
https://m.
bonza…stop teasing the special kid.
… short memory bonza ;)
https://m.
&pp=ygUMaWRmIGNhbGVuZGFy Haha…
- and dill, always poking his head where he can go head up arse ;)
Guessing u guys have a good defense for this stuff haha
?si=foFxdHzX-SS9gEam Jelly Flater wrote:… short memory bonza ;)
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ZTcEL1BQ2qc&pp=ygUMaWRmIGNhbGVuZGFy
This mistake of what it was actually worked in the IDF's favour, if the whole set up was fake and planted as nut jobs like you suggest then they IDF would have known exactly what it was, but they didnt, so it actually reinforced that the whole set up was most likely exactly as it appeared which was a temporary spot to house hostages in a hospital basement.
Jelly Flater wrote:Haha …. righto bonza ;)
- u are a funny cunt, here start with ya fact checking below…there is a smorgasbord for u ;);)
- even specificsAre you gonna admit u were wrong about idf fabrications and false stories ?
- and how again is the audio u posted actual undisputed fact haha ?
What "specifics"? are you ok Jelly?
This is your post hours ago jelly...
" yet on page 2 of this thread u posted a tweet from the idf supposedly with audio of ‘terrorists’ admitting to a misfired rocket hitting a hospital… and that piece of audio (like several other fabricated idf audio or video based on fake stories and doctored by israeli censors / creators) was proven to be completely false and exposed as lies and propaganda ;)"
you posted a lie jelly. i thought you kinda admitted it?. but now you are stepping back from that admission? what is it?
is the above statement you said true or false . its pretty simple mate. did the idf fabricate the audio tape to make it look like the jihadists bombed the hospital? yes or no?
what else were you wrong about?
help a guys ego out can you? I need this.
God how dodgy are some of these sources of Jelly Brain's.
The middle east eye, getting accused by more moderate middle east muslim countries of being bias and supporting the Muslim brotherhood, the terrorist group that Hamas came out of.
Al Jazeera also has links to this group, the english version of Al jazeera is a very toned down version of the much more radical islamic media outlet.
It's a good thing Jelly isnt posting the dodgy shit and lies from Hamas and other groups Jelly would be posting videos here all day long.
The middle east eye
Haha ;)
- nothing about the idf video bonza, nothing at all there
…just a few breaking points
Nothing fabricated ;);)
Don’t forget… “ As stated numerous times, and just to clarify… again…
- both sides lie, both sides deceive, both use propaganda ;)
Both have been caught out and both are guilty.
It’s not a competition or comparison contest…”
Enjoy your crusade tho ;)
- and your free performances noinfo, keep em going
Here you display another rendition of noinfo head up arse eating capabilities… and piano too!
https://m.
jezzaaas jelly. i admit i have not watched all your youtubes but fk knows I have tried. please do me a favour and just show me how your following statement related to the Al-Ahli Baptist Hospital incident is true.. can you please tell me in your tube vid - a time specific that it refutes the below:
" yet on page 2 of this thread u posted a tweet from the idf supposedly with audio of ‘terrorists’ admitting to a misfired rocket hitting a hospital… and that piece of audio (like several other fabricated idf audio or video based on fake stories and doctored by israeli censors / creators) was proven to be completely false and exposed as lies and propaganda ;)"
its that simple mate. do you admit this is a lie or not. yes or no. you are all over the shop. are you ok?
Haha you’re in a jovial mood bonza
- glad u show us what really makes u tick ;)
If u know if that audio is real for certain then go, enjoy yaself
…haha, or are u telling me a lie that it’s real coz u haven’t actually verified it ?
U actually know it’s real yeah ;)
Answer your own questions
…enjoy ya crusade
This stuff wasn’t fake tho ;)
?si=w1TddQLV86Z_kNku Hold your horses mate...one lie at a time please sir. we'll get to the rest... still waiting on your response on the above. did you post a lie? yes or no?
Hahaha u have quite the fascination captain ;)
- you’re not lying when u say u pretend u absolute guarantee u know the audio is ‘real’ either , you’re a fact checker after all haha
…how are these facts below, are they lies ;);)
( it’s idf verified after all haha )
- no fabrications in this vid who knows
U like not responding and waiting on non responses and all ;)
Night jelly. All the best mate
Sleep tight bonz
indo-dreaming wrote:Supafreak wrote:Like I said indo , change needs to come from within on both sides. This means the people/ citizens of this region need to ask themselves if they want peace , then what are they prepared to do in order to achieve this ? Government change and policies need a huge shake up in Israel . Destroying hamas needs to be an inside job . There was tolerance before , no reason it can’t happen again , it’s going to take some reverse brainwashing and with people so traumatised, a lot of outside help. If the US can fund wars around the world then surely they can rebuild what they help destroy . Hahaha yeah I’m tripping I know , the US can’t even help their own suffering people.
There was never tolerance before, Hamas has been attacking Israel since the 80s first as a terrorist group and then after Israel handed over Gaza in a peace deal, then the newly elected Hamas broke the peace deal and still attacked Israel, and have on and off every since.
Depending on the size of rocket attacks, Israel either just did nothing and let the Iron dome handle things, or did targeted retaliation strikes in the hope that it deterred Hamas.
Then Israel got complacent and let their guard down and 7th October happened which is the straw that broke the camels back, and they are now trying the only thing that has never been tried and that is to try to destroy Hamas.
But destroying Hamas cant be an inside job, that would only mean taking out leaders in Gaza, and while taking out leaders is important, they can still be replaced, to take out Hamas you need to take out everything related to Hamas, as much military capacity and military infrastructure as possible, all the things ive mentioned in other post, plus yes leaders and also other important figures like those that have studied in Iran on how to build a develop rockets and weapons in Gaza.
Anyway Israel has been trying to assassinate many of these leaders for years, but for the couple big ones in Gaza, now is the time Israel has the most chance of getting them, they are bassically involved in a game of cat and mouse
But then there are the other leaders sitting safe in Qatar you can assume they are safe for now though as Qatar plays an important part in being middle man in hostage negotiations, if the IDF assassinated Hamas leaders in Qatar, you would expect that would mean risking losing that middle man for negotiations.
Apart from the blatant bs…..
“i forgot how much of a fuckwitt he is with his loaded language & viewpoints.“
There should be more focus on getting the hostages home…HAMAS won’t give up all hostages as they then have nothing to negotiate with
Jelly Flater wrote:This stuff wasn’t fake tho ;)
This video proves nothing at all, other than the guys Arabic is bad.
Again it actually points to suggest that it wasn't a set up as nutter like you might suggest, otherwise he would know exactly what it said.
The site was still clearly a temporary area built fairly recently to accommodate people and was very likely used to temporally house hostages
Yes both sides lie and use propaganda but at very different levels, because one side (Israel) is held to a much higher level of scrutiny and has much more to lose if caught lying.
Hamas can completely lie out there arse and say Israel missile hit the hospital and 300 died and it be proven as complete bullshit and nobody cares, especially kooks like you.
Peaceful Palestine supporters. These people want the same as many in here. And many in here contribute to these people believing they have a right to do this.
;);)
?si=xwa6gyb1tNucmILh Jelly Flater wrote:;);)
Does Hamas war crime get a free pass? They are excused?
ffs what are you talking about, Hamas are freedom fighters and have never committed war crimes. They are fighting to free earth's coloured indigenous slave class from their evil colonial slave master oppressors. All lives taken by Hamas have been for the good of humanity.
I get that Hamas are murdering terrorists and not an armed forces..but for Jelly and others in here that is irrelevant…they have given Hamas credibility for some stupid reason known only to themselves.
… the war crimes of hamas are abhorrent, they’ve never been excused.
- nor given any credibility whatsoever
But the black n white brigade push on ;)
…and the dill, floating on in a soup of hypocrisy and dillusion
- still spouting pro zionist garbage and giving zionist ideology credibility
… the irrelevant dill aka the gifted kid ;);)
https://m.
Nor given any credibility…..???…you re-post their propaganda videos you idiot….even though you know they are fake….your a disgrace of an Australian …your happy living in a free country but punishing Israel the only free country in that region….Dog act.
Haha ;)
- who gave hamas credibility?
… the dogs u support haha
Keep licking bibi’s boots ya christian charlatan ;);)
https://theintercept.com/2018/02/19/hamas-israel-palestine-conflict/
^^^ ooooooops ;)
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