Refugees: A hypothetical

blowin, as odd as it sounds my friend initially studied politics and philosophy out of personal interest but he ended up working for the government for awhile where he saw how international politics works. Yes I agree the west has raged war on lesser states since WW2 but I was making a different point as I guess you know. Hope you get out of that concrete world and into some nice country soon with some waves. Cheers.

Happy "and yet I haven't seen barely one comment about whats going on in germany."

22.6 billion dollar trade surplus, unemployment rate of 4.2%, Euro may be too low for Germany says treasurer, Germany wins Norway Sub deal, Rhine shipping returns to normal as water levels rise, sends tanks to Lithuania for Nato.

Ohh.... it 's the "other news" you are looking for, right happy?

blowin aked "And I'm still in the dark as to how a philosopher turns a dollar."

what's the mystery here?
being a philosopher is an academic position. you teach and/or do research (write books and papers) and receive a wage from the university you work for.

if you're talking about the undergraduate level -- philosophy is not a vocational subject . it teaches students critical thinking. we stand as the corner stone of the university.

Computing also traditionally provides a rich vein of income for many philosophers. As logicians, philosophers play a large part in computer development. For example, the founding professor of the UNSW philosophy department invented the First In, First Out operating system scheduling algorithm.

Little known quote:

"Stare long enough into the abyss [not the mirror], let it stare into you, whinge about it, get angry, and take it out on easy targets." - Freddo 'The Nit' Nitchski

Here's an easy target for you Parrot.

https://www.swellnet.com/reports/indonesia/bali/uluwatu/forecast

And you'll still miss !

How much does Gronk air hit you up for your quiver of soft tops ?

Soft-tops?? Seen the light and now starting up a surf school for the kids, Blowie? Nice.

Take heart, comrade, for,

"...to live alone one must be an animal or a god - says Aristotle. Yet there is yet a third case: one must be both - a philosopher."

Might be a buck in it too. Yew!

Didn't Germany end up getting so overrun by Refugees, the government actually started paying them to leave?

Yeah i thought it happened about a year ago refugees were getting payed a few grand to go home, they got more if they went home before they applied for resettlement and less if they applied and then were rejected.

Interestingly a google search brings up stories that are very recent maybe it never happened until now or is being relaunched it's called the The StartHilfe Plus program.

Cant find any media that reported it in Australia though.

Diversity is enlightenment !

It's the only path for those with a broadened world view.

Wait till the majority language of Arnhem Land is Mandarin and every town has a McDonald's - that's when we can rest easy in the knowledge that we are living in an Earthly Utopia.

Travel is the antidote to bigotry !

It's just that some medicine is hard to swallow....like when the diversification "talent " is spitting on the floor of the restaurant .

It's cultural diversity , baby !

Vive la difference .

Or not....

Sick pits, sucking super sick.

https://m.

2 new sticks coming and the forecast is for Sik Joy.

they're paying refugees to leave because its out of control and the system will not cope and its already cheaper to pay them than process them only to reach a non-refugee status result.

.....it only works in practice because so many are economic migrants. they know that.

"Everything subtly changed after the NYE rapes in Cologne and subsequent attempts at a cover up by media, police and government.

If you listen to the government and the media everything is fantastic.
If you talk to the brother of the sister who was sexually assaulted on the Train ride ...well, it's a different reality isn't it?"

So I'm wondering, do the government, media etc. really perceive everything to be rosey?

Or is this our little 'fake news' phenonemon that the left loves to cry about?

I not saying either is right or wrong, I can understand how a refugee enthusiast could view these incidents as the normal rough and tumble of accepting a very large number of refugees into a new culture. But, it appears there seems to be a little bit of over-controlling of the narrative.

I saw a four corners, or something like that, documentary about the cologne attacks, and they interviewed a self confessed lefty social justice warrior lesbian type (an advocate, if I may be so crass) who said she had defended refugees and their causes vehemently before cologne. After cologne she was saying it was a huge mistake by merkel to open the doors, and the police were caught out covering stuff up. Of course the media and government jumped on board with the cover up.

Are these practices acceptable? Don't people (good meaning people) realise this control of narrative just undermines their cause? And feeds the current plague like lack of trust?

Its about time both sides stopped bullshitting because stuff is getting quite ugly and really divisive. Trust is a most undervalued commodity, as we are seeing now.

Interestingly, the woman I was talking of above, came to the conclusion these people are culturally unsuitable to modern day germany. I don't think this way in absolute terms, but, if people cannot suggest and talk about how countries might help these people and take them in, then we're going to end up with a situation where the vast majority of people are just going to say no more. That's if we're not already there.

Prior to the merkel move, there were plenty of people on here denigrating those asking for a controlled intake. I'd love to hear your take on the fallout of what has unfolded. Not to indulge in a bit of 'I told you so', but because I'm really really interested in your take on the developments, and if you've changed your positions at all?

...is there anybody out there?...

Floydo?

Germany is stamping English Brexit refugees by the chunnel load.
Surprising to many Brexit Jews are leading the rush to Germany.

Get set for tidal wave of refugees from flat Earth compound.

US Pres' burns OZ PM first chance! PM/Refugees all Twitter jokes to Trump.

Latest news:Liberal refugees deserting blue rinse set for Flat Earth compound.

25/2/2017- WF9 Doomsday Tsunami *Sea of Refugees/National day of prayer!

sypkan

agree, there been a lot of media quietening of the whole thing. its not just the media, the german people really dont want to be seen in public as anti refugee in any way. even my own hard nosed heritage in the south speak very carefully of the situation. there is a lot of sensitivity. but its whats happening in the background that shows how many people are swaying silently. polls for the aFD are way up. its a fad I know and the afD will disappear just like nutter hanson but its symbolic nonetheless. i think its great that merkel has had the courage to do what she did. but she too recognises that in some aspects it has failed and improvements could/can still be made. they just werent well set up for dealing with that many people and now they have to work out how to provide gp health, education, psychology and the rest to everyone....or kick some of them out as is the case. bottom line i guess.....there is always something to learn. germany is a very strong economy. if they work out a way to give all the aslyum seekers english capability and jobs it'll be rocking.

I live in Germany at the moment, so can give you my perspective.
No doubt there was a level of atonement in the reception of refugees, but also a very significant part of the population is/was pro the idea because of how prosperous Germany has become - and from this prosperity - increased cultural openness. (Maybe different down South Happyass ;-) ) .

And i mightn't be as optimistic as you Happyass about the aFD - we'll see in september.

In terms of integration success, I can only talk about where I live, but it seems to be working relatively well. Like anything the Germans do, they try to do in a logical and systematic way. And once a decision to do something is made - most pitch in to make it work.
They have gone to a lot of effort to spread migrants out over all of Germany and integrate them into smaller cities and villages to prevent the kind of ghettoisation you see in other countries.
Here in our village, plenty of new families, and the kids seem to be getting on well at school, although a couple having to repeat the year to pick up more German (seems to be more probs with EU migrants than anything else - Polish).
I helped a guy from Allepo with a mock job interview for a Uni position a few weeks ago - and he scored a lecturing job. Listening to his story just amazes me - how could someone that resilient and resourceful NOT succeed. Makes you shake your head about the problems we whinge about. My daughter keeps reminding me of her classmates gnarly trek out of northern Iraq which blows my mind.

There are immigrant problems - particularly focussed around single men without work - even in our small neighboring city - issues with girls being harassed. And that needs to be sorted as much as it can be - otherwise more food for the aFD.

Blindboy. No doubt demographics point to a need for population growth at the young end, but I dont think refugees are the answer to that problem, and I dont think Germans see them as the answer to that problem either. To expect refugees from the middle east and africa to make up the difference would be a demographic and cultural shift that would be a bridge too far, even for left wing Germans.

refugees placing themselves permanently in places like Germany might be a long term win for Germany, but it is a long term loss for the war torn nation. able bodied intelligent young men are required to build a nation. afghanistan is an example. complex topic.

BB. i just re-read my words. i didnt mean it to sound like refugees should be making decisions against their own best interests. sorry for the poor wording. i was actually referring to the host nation's or UN's policies (or lack thereof) to return refugees as soon as practicable for the reasons of rebuilding that i highlighted.

take your point regarding our cherry picking. no doubt.

Came across a refugee in Manus today on Facebook, profile seemed real, comments from refugee advocates etc, pics at centre friends all from Afghanistan and Pakistan etc with a few crazy left refugee advocate types .

So I decided to have a chat with him to see what made him tick, his views, reasons etc

Anyway interesting conversation, didn't really change my view, more confirmed many things I've thought and said, very smart, good english and knew his shit.

I didn't bother asking about the recent incident.

But he was adamant he would get to Australia and not USA, he seemed confident that 50 guys from Manus were already processed and in Australia for medical treatment?

And that two had already been resettled into the community two weeks ago on visas.

So either shit is happening behind our backs and it is true, or these guys are getting feed lies and false hope.

I did treat him nice and said my advice take the USA deal, but said he would prefer Australia and 100% believed he would be here soon.

BTW, I did ask him why he didn't take the Cambodia deal, and he seemed to think that was only offered to Nauru refugees and said he didn't want to live in PNG because too poor, although it did seem a bit of a contradiction because he said he just wanted safety not to be rich etc.

So hes willing to languish in captivity over a preferential deal he made with a people smuggler. so what does this say about the so called abhorent conditions in detention we have heard no end about?

When our family came out post WWII, my uncle and aunt were offered a post in PNG, as medical professionals. As refugees they made a go of it and lived there many years servicing the locals. Truthfully, I do question why those on Manus dont take a first step to a new life in PNG.

Interestingly he made no mention of current event or negative conditions as you may expect to be the first thing mentioned, I'm sure he understands that the reality is he has it good compared to refugees in other areas of the world, like refugee camps or areas they get stuck.

Where he is, he has no worry about where the next meal will come from or paying a bill or running out of money, where he is everything is free, western standard, A/C food etc. (although I'm sure if asked he would try to give me the perception things are bad)

On top of that I'm sure he knows sooner or latter he will have to be dealt with unlike those in a refugee camp, that's why he wouldn't take up resettlement in PNG if he did he loses his chance of a new life in Australia or USA or NZ, I'm sure he understands at some point he will have to be dealt with and that if we have a change of government that the chance of resplendent in Australia will increase.

Although he seemed to believe others had already been resettled and in the process of being resettled in Australia and that he wasn't far away from the same.

Tony, the PNG of today is different to that before independence (1/12/1973). Go up there for a surf trip and spend some time away from the safety of Moresby airport like the Australian war memorial. In fact just walk out to the airport carpark and observe the "security" with 1.5 metre long wooden clubs patrolling the place. Its totally laughable comparing the then and now.

Apart from that all I have to say is FFS someone change the record.

PNG is definitely a dangerous place all the stats are just out of control, homicide rates (20 times higher than Indonesia), violence, rape, even my wife PNG friend wont let her daughters go back to their home town for holidays just near the border of PNG and West Papua and her brother got beaten to death.

I wonder why violence is at such epidemic levels?

Poverty cant be the blame or cause as other areas with poverty like certain areas of Indonesia don't have higher levels of violence than normal., perhaps it stems from the culture as they still continue to have tribal wars even witch craft and sorcery killings etc

People know my stance on the refugee issue but i do think PNG is not suitable for resettlement of refugees and PNG was not a good location for a detention centre.