What's what?

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Shatner'sBassoon started the topic in Friday, 6 Nov 2015 at 7:48pm



Gaz1799's picture
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Gaz1799 commented Thursday, 2 Mar 2017 at 5:14pm

I wouldn't say its propaganda sheepdog, 457 Visas are meant to be for skilled workers in the absence of local talent so it's obviously a rort of the system.

500 jobs does seem to be a drop in the ocean, but it's 500 jobs we could use here in SA at the moment. I doubt Dutton or anyone will move on big mal as he'd likely resign and they risk losing his seat to the greens, and government majority at the same time.

It's about time the government abandoned the ABS rubbish in favor of the roy morgan poll as the questions that the ABS uses to determine unemployment are an absolute farce. Has anyone here ever had a call from the ABS? I definitely never have.

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Gaz1799 commented Thursday, 2 Mar 2017 at 5:34pm


Apparently in 2012-13 there were 1,000 cafe/restaurant managers offered 457 visa's & nearly 2,500 cooks. Didn't realize the hospitality industry was in such a short supply of talent? It also says most applicants are from India & the UK.

happyasS's picture
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happyasS commented Thursday, 2 Mar 2017 at 8:37pm

gaz..."It's about time the government abandoned the ABS rubbish in favor of the roy morgan poll as the questions that the ABS uses to determine unemployment are an absolute farce. Has anyone here ever had a call from the ABS? I definitely never have."

gaz, just FYI the govt back in the Howard days redefined the notion of "employment" to fix the dwindling employment rate. the statistic has since been continually redefined, hah. nowdays if you work something like 10 hours a fortnight you dont factor in the national unemployment rate. what a joke.

if you want to truly measure "employment" its very simple. you add up total worked hours for everyone in the working age bracket, then you divide by the number of total workers in that age bracket. you then get hours per worker per week. unfortunately it provides a irrefutable statistic that politicians cannot weave their magic on.

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sypkan commented Thursday, 2 Mar 2017 at 10:34pm

Abc radio this morning said there are currently 1.3 million people in oz atm, on various visas with rights to work in australia.

He said the main goal was permanent rresidency, which can be applied for after two years with the same enployer. It was nice to hear someone speak so frankly about immigration, without the usual code words, obfuscations, and hiding of realities, a nice change...go trump!

Many don't actually do the work they came here to do. I know this for a fact, as I've met professionals doing pretty average jobs complaining the system is stupid (it is stupid, the visa gets them here often with no job lined up). So they do any job they can just to stay...fair enough...but the system sure seems stupid.

The guy said there's 500 people hired amongst 1500 fast food stores across australia. So sheepdog is right, this particular case is tokenism and propaganda to appease the mob, though it beggars belief that anyone could be brought here to work at mcdonalds

I think he's wrong though in thinking the bigger picture is a trivial issue.

And yes, labor rorted it as much as libs, its the base of their bi-partisan growth model for australia. I don't think its racist, or even slightly miserable, to expect a bit more vision from our politicians than an ever increasing cost of living based on a ponzi scheme of migrants.

Especially when governments from both sides couldn't get the migrants through the door quick enough...until the trump came along that is....

Having said all that, at 1.3 million, one could argue we've developed a bit of a symbiotic relationship, either that or australia is full of lazy cunts

Blowin's picture
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Blowin commented Thursday, 2 Mar 2017 at 10:33pm

Sheepdog just regurgitates statistics and attempts to hold the high moral ground .

Walk into virtually any fast food / take away outlet and answer the question yourself.

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Gaz1799 commented Friday, 3 Mar 2017 at 9:34am

Happy I've no doubt that Johnnie liked the creative accounting, it's a good argument for all stats be done by an independent institution (if there is such a thing). As long as the ABS is gov funded this will never be the case. The ABS definitions of employment are absolutely laughable I agree.

I think Dutton is right to crack down on 457 rorting, regardless of the number of people doing it. Entry level jobs are the ones young people use to enter the workforce, 457 visas are meant to only be for skilled workers.

On that note, there are over a million expats living abroad so we shouldn't be throwing stones in glass houses either.

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sypkan commented Friday, 3 Mar 2017 at 10:44am

Agreed gazman, but there's issues...

I know a guy who got on disability when howard relaxed the laws to make his unemployment statistics look better. That guys had a great decade or more receiving more money than the dole, cheaper (dubious) medications, and all the other perks of the pension, whilst he's made himself a great little cash business doing manual labour.

Meanwhile we get reports of people in wheelchairs and others with serious ailments getting harrassed to go out and look for work. I just don't get it at all....

The biggest scam and shame of this visa rort is governments not training people to do jobs, especially young people. I'm one of those lazy cunts, if I wasn't conditioned through training in my youth to work, I probably wouldn't feel the need to work either, especially at those grubby jobs, yet we have both sides of politics completely shirking their responsibilities to train and engage people in productive lives because its all too hard or expensive...well...welfare bills are kinda expensive too!

And on a similar note, I think its disgraceful that a country like australia can pick the best and brightest that have been trained by a developing (poor) country to work here. Phillipino nurses are a prime example. Anyone whose spent any time in a developing country can see the need is much greater over in these places there than here. And we should probably be sending educated people the other way to improve conditions if there was any credibility at all to this globalisation rhetoric.

But there is no credibility to it at all. Its just a justification to rape and pillage the best of the world's resources on offer, leaving the already behind in a worse state than before.

At risk of thrashing a an overdone term to death, its all very much an 'elitist' agenda, poaching the world's best from poorer nations, whilst leaving your own - who need a little prompting - to rot on welfare but that's where we're at

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Gaz1799 commented Friday, 3 Mar 2017 at 3:27pm

You raise a solid point sypo those abusing the disability pension should be hung - there are thousands of people out there in genuine need who are demonized because of the actions of only a few & it aint right. Disability support isn't welfare its a human right in my book.

The government loves people who are net tax payers - these are people earning roughly $30k+ & not eligible for welfare and not eligible for medicare. They also contribute by paying consumption taxes along the way. Basically these are non-aussie citizens on some kind of visa. If a foreign doctor can earn $150k even better, but it's a sad part of the system that a non-resident would actually contribute more in one year to the country's bottom line than one aussie citizens on similar pay would over 2-3 due to the medicare/welfare system. Personally, I think this is one of the main reasons there is often a huge waiting period before receiving citizenship.

This seems to further the elitist agenda you mentioned by stealing resources, whether human or otherwise, from poorer nations. As long as Australia is a richer nation then qualified professionals will flock here and poorer unskilled workers will have the door slammed on them, as they risk needing government assistance of some form.

Sheepdog's picture
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Sheepdog commented Friday, 3 Mar 2017 at 3:31pm

Blowin, at least i regurgitate stats with a link instead of just waffling bullshit like yourself... Still waiting for the proof of 2 million workers here on visas.... You will never supply it.... Because it's crap.

Gaz1799..... It's not all doom and gloom..... here's 80 direct jobs plus spin offs down my way.... But the coalition would hate to promote anything positive about S.A at the moment.... Doesn't fit the narrative..



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Gaz1799 commented Friday, 3 Mar 2017 at 3:48pm

Good to see a few jobs being generated in rural area's sheepdog I know those 80 jobs will make a big impact and maybe bring a few new families to the area.

No doubt there will be a huge influx of people to regional areas once Holden closes in October.

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talkingturkey commented Friday, 3 Mar 2017 at 5:52pm
Blowin's picture
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Blowin commented Saturday, 4 Mar 2017 at 10:00am

You've got to laugh when reading all the " experts " start declaring who votes One Nation and why they do.


How is it that the contrast between city and regional support is always put as regional voters are uneducated , financially challenged and not cosmopolitan due to low exposure to immigrants ?

Whilst City dwellers are posited as sophisticated , high wealth , broad minded and tolerant .

Hilarious interpretation of statistics .

Does it dawn on none of these people that a possible reason for a higher representation of city dwellers as pro -immigration is because a higher proportion of city dwellers ARE immigrants or offspring of immigrants ?

But no , it's because the regions are a hotbed of poor, stupid plodders that couldn't hold a candle to all the elite servo attendants, pizza delivery drivers , taxi drivers and baristas that actually constitute a much vaster percentage of city dwellers than do silver haired CEOs and Strategic analysts.

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batfink commented Saturday, 4 Mar 2017 at 11:04am

"The biggest scam and shame of this visa rort is governments not training people to do jobs, especially young people."

In a nutshell Sypkan.

Putting on apprentices used to be considered 'the done thing', not just as cheap labour, those first few years they don't pay for themselves at all, but because of an implicit social ethic, the social contract.

It started and was allowed to run by the biggest companies. Govt's used to regulate that if you wanted new workers you were obliged to train them up. Sometime in the 90's they relaxed most of these, and BHP and the like got started the bandwagon of shipping in workers for their projects rather than training up locals.

I have 30 years background in Human Resources for big employers. 457 visas are being rorted mightily. The effect if they weren't able to rort them is that companies would have to train up and employ locals, and probably even pay higher wages and treat people with respect to attract and keep them.

Reliance on 457 visas allows employers to offer bottom dollar and then say they can't fill the jobs with local workers, so they need to bring in a 457 visa. The IT industry is stuffed full of people with 30 years experience, in their 50's, who can't get an interview for jobs. Computer Science grads struggle to work in the industry, and yet every IT project is filled with people of a certain nationality on 457 visas. If you can guess which one, please don't throw the 'racist' line at me.

Do you think there is no connection between wages going backwards and 457 visas being given out like candy?

Visas of all types are being given out on an unstated and bipartisan policy in increasing our population. When was that ever discussed as a political policy? It isn't, they both avoid it. What is the result of increased population - more customers for business (yay!), but also more clogged roads, higher house prices, environmental degradation, reduced wage pressures. Would you be happy to take home less pay if it took you half the time to get to work and you paid half of the average house price we currently do?

Nothing is unconnected, and high immigration rates are worth debate. There hasn't been one.

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batfink commented Saturday, 4 Mar 2017 at 11:08am

"You've got to laugh when reading all the " experts " start declaring who votes One Nation and why they do."

It's fake analysis blowin, to go along with fake news and fake facts. You would have read much about the average Trump voter - a hayseed with a stalk of wheat between his teeth. Sure they were, but there were a shiteload more who weren't who voted for Trump.

Mind you, I haven't met anyone who admits to voting to Hanson, (much like Johnny Howard!). The ones I see on TV declaring their love for her sure do make me clench my fists.

But that's beside the point.

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indo-dreaming commented Saturday, 4 Mar 2017 at 12:07pm

I think I'm going too vote for her or one nation next time , not because i agree with all her policies some i strongly disagree with but the way the media and the left treat her IMO is disgraceful and i feel like it pushes me to support her. (I'm sure many who voted for Trump felt the same way)

PS. I never voted for Howard either.

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tonybarber commented Saturday, 4 Mar 2017 at 12:20pm

It seems Bernard Shaw quote - "the reasonable man adapts himself to the world. The unreasonable man persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man." This seems to applying more and more in our politics. Ahhh, the silent majority.

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GuySmiley commented Saturday, 4 Mar 2017 at 1:07pm

Lets rave .......

There was a time when government was for the people and by the people.
That time existed before neo-liberalism.
Neo-liberalism has let the market and capital decide what is best and people have needed to adapt.
People are sick of adapting and are angry at politicians and the political process.
But its the neo-liberal experiment that is broke not democracy.
Here and elsewhere successful politics was about the middle and balance.
Its laughable that the likes of Abbott, Abetz, Bernardi and Christensen believe the answer is to be found by moving even further to the right and towards Hanson.
Not only is the neo-liberal experiment broke in the economy but its also broke in the conservative side of politics.
The problem isn't Turnbull its the whole party thanks to the preselection of conservative candidates from Howard's time.
We all know what they are against but what does the LNP actually stand for?
The answer is for the LNP to split into two parties, one conservative like the republican party in the US and one like the old Liberal Party in the Menzies mould - centre right liberalism with the family at the centre of policy.
The Labor Party equally needs to be bold and move back towards the left to become once again a centre left party and put forward policies that look after ordinary families.

Voting is important, it is a right that comes with responsibilities. Protest voting isn't really in the long term interest of the country. As Paul Keating said - change a government and you change a country. No truer words.

@davetherave .... here's one for you Dave ....


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Blowin commented Saturday, 4 Mar 2017 at 1:08pm

I voted for One Nation , Batfink.

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Blowin commented Saturday, 4 Mar 2017 at 1:13pm

Change the demographics of a nation and you change the country.

If you want a nation of workers that will undercut each other in a race to the bottom for all wage earners, then import citizens of nations where this is an accepted cultural norm.

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tonybarber commented Saturday, 4 Mar 2017 at 2:01pm

GS, what is 'left' in todays terms or meanings. Labor has also lost the people. It has a tenuous hold to some people via unions but that is becoming fractured, irrelevant in this current world. The demographics have changed. Values have changed. The people know what they want. Trump is showing us this point. One Nation is also showing it for us here in Aus. The media don't want to accept it. Politicians want to ignore it. Hence change.

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GuySmiley commented Saturday, 4 Mar 2017 at 3:02pm

TonyB, well you certainly have nailed your nuts to the mast there with a good many sweeping statements, but its good to see you so committed on a topic!

To be clear, only 18% of Americans actually voted for Trump so I would call that a minority even in this post truth world. Now Hanson has what 10% of the vote and again to be clear she only has the 3 or 4 senators she has because of the vagaries of our electoral rules when a DD election is called where senators only have to get 1/2 the vote quota or some such thing.

Now where did I hear attacks on the media and politicians before? elites and swamps, nice one ........ but back on topic .... neo-liberalism TonyB, off like a bucket of prawns in the sun.

ps. nice try the other day on Norway quoting company tax rates when I was talking about their resource tax receipts.

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GuySmiley commented Saturday, 4 Mar 2017 at 3:32pm

@any Hanson supporters out there

If she is the great "disrupter" that we hear she is can you identify any actions in the current parliament where she has disrupted the government's legislative agenda and started draining the swamp. I'm curious because all I've heard is how she has actually voting with the Turnbull's government on legislation opposed by Labor and the other cross benches.

Now I'm prepared to be proven wrong here, perhaps it is all a media (elites) conspiracy against her as TonyB suggests?

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Blowin commented Saturday, 4 Mar 2017 at 3:49pm

Guysmiley - I voted One Nation , beyond that vote what can I do ?

One nation is still a bucket of shit, no different from any other political party in that regard and they will do what they want to do regardless of any promises pre election.

I don't follow their antics that hard to be honest. It was as much a protest vote as anything. But I don't want to diminish my voting intent by saying that.

I liked their stance on immigration , national sovereignty and foreign ownership rules amongst others.

What have they done in respect to those topics ? Not much, what can they do with so little power ?

If anything my vote has been moderately successful in that the major parties are at least pretending to be interested in the reasons for their declining suppport and this may cause them to adjust their policies to be more inclusive towards the desires of those that would have previously voted for them . By people such as myself.

And that's democracy in action.

PS - One Nation aligning with the LNP is about as far from a satisfactory result as I'd like.

But then, One Nation was never a party that I was happy with, merely the party I was least unhappy with.

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indo-dreaming commented Saturday, 4 Mar 2017 at 3:55pm

I think protest voting has it's place, its sends a message to the major party's which way they should lean too.

I actually hope Labor edge a little to the right and does what's best for the majority and stop trying to be everything to everyone and pander to minorities, get on with real issues.

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sypkan commented Saturday, 4 Mar 2017 at 3:58pm

Gotta agree guysmiley, very hard to believe abbott and co. think the answer is harder right. Fuck I read an article asking for abbott to return

do they really beleive people would vote for that thing again?

Don't feel bad batfink, if even ice T can be feeling a little dark on em (sorry), its probably ok for us too....just a little...


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batfink commented Saturday, 4 Mar 2017 at 4:46pm

Mr Smiley, have to agree with you on the neoliberal thing being the problem. That is at the very heart of it. Neoliberal economic theory, also known as 'rational economics' is actually highly irrational. It begins with a false premise and then assumes under myriad false assumptions. It has its place, but not as a leading advocate, just as a background consideration in decision making.

TB, I know you throw a lot of bait out there. Not so much rising to the bait as just pointing out that anytime anyone ventures an opinion about what 'the silent majority' are thinking or doing, you can bet they have nothing to add to the conversation. By definition, if they were silent, then nobody has the slightest clue. It is a debating device to attempt to give force to otherwise feeble or non-existent arguments.

And I'll take you up on other quote - " The people know what they want."

I will state, wholeheartedly and without reservation, that the people have no fucking idea what they want, none at all. The have no idea how things work, how policy in made, how laws work, how governments function, the difference between what would be good for them and what would be good for the nation. They are mostly just pawns in a big and very ugly game.

What they do know, again I say this without reservation, is what they don't want. And for all their ignorance about the ways of the world, they tend to get that right. What the US didn't want was another clone of the establishment, and that, I believe, was the main reason that Trump was voted in. They didn't want Trump as much as they wanted Not Clinton/Not establishment politicians.

Both Hanson and the LNP are largely built in reactionary policy, they know what they don't want (other people in power) but they really don't have much in terms of policy, actual things to do. They have no answers to the current situation (FFS - big business tax cuts, as though that is going to do anything).

Where I disagree with Smiley's previous post is that I think democracy is broken, a bit at least. The interplay of politics, big business and media now see us in a position where any change is hard to implement, unless it favours big business.

The stalemate in our polity is a reasonable reaction to the situation. We have elected a group of people who can't agree on anything, so nothing happens. Hopefully not even tax cuts for big business. (Dumbest policy ever)

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GuySmiley commented Saturday, 4 Mar 2017 at 7:16pm

Great discussion / points from all.

IMO there is no surprise that Hanson's base is strongest in Queensland and FNQ in particular. The state that gave us the socially ultra conservative and ultimately seriously corrupt Bjelke-Petersen state government for 21 years. Joh for PM, Ring any bells in the current day? Queensland were you could be arrested for anything and everything that was legal elsewhere. Moving forward to the current day the political mavericks continue - Hanson, Catter, Christensen and Malcolm Roberts (FFS that man should be studied to see if he actually has a brain cell). FNQ is just different, you could spend a lifetime studying how it is up there and its the Hanson heartland.

IMO Hanson will only ever be a protest vote elsewhere in Australia but I too also strongly agree on limiting immigration numbers and work visas (routs) but on environmental sustainability and economic (tackling AU unemployment) grounds. @Indo want Labor to step to the right a tad? mate if they were any further to the right they would be called a conservative party or an American democratic party; think Clinton verses Sanders. You are wanting more Clinton and I'm thinking there should be lots more Sanders.

See ya, have a good one I'm off to the carnival!

indo-dreaming's picture
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indo-dreaming commented Saturday, 4 Mar 2017 at 7:32pm

Yeah sure Hanson does pander for minoritys just like the Greens do just opposite ends of the spectrum.

But like i said id only be voting for her in protest, I don't agree with all her policies and the ones i don't agree with are the ones the minority are attracted too (although she does actually have some good policies)

I guess traditionally Labor try to pick up some of the far left minorities and Liberals some of the far right minorities, if the far right minorities become stronger as we are seeing around the world, then Labor might move that way also.

I do agree i think she will only ever be a protest vote elsewhere, because of her history in politics and being a women puts her a a disadvantage, but i do think there is space for a leader leaning to the right with nationalistic views that could be very popular but it isn't her.

IMO Dick Smith is the man wish he would start his own nationalistic party and take the best from the left and right best from Liberal and Labor.

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Blowin commented Saturday, 4 Mar 2017 at 7:59pm

Agree with you on the Dick Smith call Indo.

I was going to argue the point on your opinion that being a female is a disadvantage in politics , but then I had a think about all the flat out mysoginists I know and unfortunately I have to agree.

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happyasS commented Saturday, 4 Mar 2017 at 8:16pm

dick is 73. howard went senile in his last term. im not taking that chance.

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campbell commented Saturday, 4 Mar 2017 at 11:35pm

I'd have to say if you think immigration has not been a contributing factor to where we are now with the unaffordable housing and into the employment / underemployment situation we are in you must have your head in the sand. 10 +years of poaching doctors and other "in demand" highly trained workers from overseas right down to easy immigration for any other workers that someone is prepared to sponsor in to work. I've got a mate from Chile who was here on holiday, signed up for a commercial cookery tafe course (he did have to pay for the course) this allowed both him and his defacto German girlfriend that he met here to stay and in the long run become permanent residents. Good on them but the town / state is full of such cases. This particular with highly skilled professionals has brought the people in who can afford to pay a lot more than the average aussie for a home in a good spot. Prices go up,education becomes a profitable business for the government with foreigners prepared to pay upfront rather than locals who are on hex or austudy etc, less local people are trained up spiral to the bottom. Then we have to listen to politicians and government justify themselves to bring in more next year because of the gap in trained Australians. And then people are surprised when fringe parties start to look good to someone living in buttfuck nowhere, driving miles to a job they hate. Thing is we have seen what happened with Brexit, seen what happened with Trump and will it take until we have our second red headed woman prime minister before Australia wakes the fuck up?


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campbell commented Saturday, 4 Mar 2017 at 11:43pm

Crowded the lineups bigtime too now with "local" foreign surfers from everywhere bringing their poor manners and lack of understanding of even the basic surfing ettitque (sorry about the spelling on that one). Been to Bali lately? Total fucking macho chaos, that's where we are headed.


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sypkan commented Sunday, 5 Mar 2017 at 12:00am

here you go blowin, it's not just you and a few hayseeds voting one nation, she's now engaged the middle classes


and for them its not about the economy or free trade

“Let me stress, it’s not like a redneck approach. It’s not a group of blokes burning crosses,” the entrepreneur says. “It’s comments along the lines of ‘I don’t give a damn whether they’re Muslim or Christian or Jewish or Hindu, what I do care is that they want to come to our country because they want to be here and assimilate into our culture’. Clearly the government, state or federal, left or right, isn’t putting systems in place to foster that."

I find it kind of disappointing that working class people would vote for her with her stance on penalty rates, plus the other issues she's cosying up to the Libs about.

But clearly whatever the class, people are tired of the dogma and misleading conventional wisdom around immigration (or is it just a dodgy sales pitch to shut up the plebs?). And fair enough, the lies and belittling's have become unbearable.

Should just close down the department of multiculturalism, while I'm a believer and supporter of multiculturalism, it seems all they have achieved over the last few decades is a hardening of people's resolve against immigration. A massive fail. Leave migrants to their own devices, stop over accommodating them, give up the political correctness. Then maybe they will get on with living and fitting in rather than spending their lives rorting the system and ranting about their 'rights'.

While people love to quote Muslims being only 2% of the population when making a point, I'd love to know the relative amount of money spent per person accommodating their ways and beliefs in comparison to how much we spent per person accommodating the Vietnamese. And there would be the answer to the half of the problems currently facing Australia regarding immigration.

Anyone working in government departments making this shit up should hang their heads in shame.

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Blowin commented Sunday, 5 Mar 2017 at 12:31am

Only 60 percent of Australians were born here (!!!) , the country is a shining light of harmonious cultural co existence yet still the idea that if immigration were to be returned to historical norms then our nation should hang its head in shame of racial intolerance.

Who comes up with this shit and why the fuck would any rational Australian indulge such a fantasy ?

PS One Nation voting against penalty rates makes them as bad as LNP.

Just goes to show that there is truly NO ONE representing working class Australia.

Labor ? You're kidding right ?

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campbell commented Sunday, 5 Mar 2017 at 1:07am

Don't even start on the welfare system, pensioners who have worked their whole lives (well most of them anyhow) being shut out and getting their welfare scrutinised whilst not a mention (let's not be politically incorrect! ) take in the refugees particularly those whole arrive without skills, dad never had a job, stays home, breed and breeds, the government pays per kid so why not, get moved into a free state housing place big enough for 4,6,8 kids whatever, kids never seen dad get up and go to work so don't even know where to start,even if they don't turn to gangs and crime, then get bent out of shape about how we live here (while we pay the tax to support them)m Well single mothers kind of fit into this one too, I understand being left with kids and needing to be helped out but if your a single mother on welfare who keeps having kids your not really a single mother are you? If someone is fucking you and putting kids into your world then maybe your not single? Just saying... too easy, maybe contraception or bunk beds and budgeting your coin like the rest of us, perhaps a flat rate of welfare for all with additions / bonus for past years of tax paid to allow for living conditions for a certain time period while you find another job even the US has had this one for years and they are not well know for welfare generosity, unemployment benifits according to what you earnt when you worked.


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campbell commented Sunday, 5 Mar 2017 at 1:15am

I work my ring off to maintain my lifestyle and am currently "saving" to pay my BAS quarterly payment so the malcom and his mates can get hold of it and throw it around.


indo-dreaming's picture
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indo-dreaming commented Sunday, 5 Mar 2017 at 8:44am

Touching on Islam aspect Sypkan

This possibly deserves a whole new thread of it's own but i think the biggest problem with Islam in Australia is the type of Islam we are often importing is not helping with all the stereo types about Islam.

I read the other day the majority of muslims who migrate here are from the middle east countries, countries that often have a more strict kind of Islam than SE Asian Islam like Indonesia and Malaysia.

For example many of the things people often fear about Islam, are very rare in SE Asian Islam.

For example:

Sharia law= Indonesia has a close to 90% muslim population, over 200 muslims the largest islamic population in the world, but of it's 34 provinces only one has Sharia law. (Aceh) but they had to fight to get it.

Burqas and Niqab (face coverings) = I could honestly count the number of women on two hands I've seen wearing face coverings in Indonesia, and the ones i have seen almost all have been with men with middle eastern appearance, despite the fact our muslim population is so small in Australia if you go to certain suburbs in Australia you have possibly more chance of spotting a women in a face covering. (obviously still very rare)

Things like Muslims don't shake hands with men: It's very rare to met a muslim women in Indonesia that wouldn't shake hands with you, at my wedding in Indo i had to shake the guest hands as the left, at least 70-80% of women shaked my hand, the others that didn't doesn't mean they didn't for religious reasons, some Indo women would have just been a little scared to shake my hand being a stranger and westerner and many men also skipped past me also.

Repression of women= Generally speaking women are not really seen in Indonesia as equal to men and there is some screwed up things like virginity test for women who enter the police force, but these backward views i don't think are because of Islam (possibly not helped though) but i think it's more people in developing countries have more of a traditional men-women view like we did say 30-40 years ago.

For example even in neighbouring countries like Phillipines or PNG that are Christian/Catholic majority you have all the same women rights issues.

Same goes with violence towards women, Indonesia is not immune to it, but look at PNG a Christian country which has one of the highest rates of sexual based violence in particular domestic violence towards women in the world.

Muslims are violent= Again Indonesia is generally a very safe country, things like kidnappings virtually unheard of unlike places that are Christian based countries much of South America & PNG, also according to World homicide rates, Indonesias homicide rate per 100,000 people is about half ours in Australia and 20 times lower than PNG and much lower than most other developing countries.

On politics = Indonesia voted in a women president 15 years ago, while Australia and USA are still yet to do so.

Again Indonesia has Christians at high level of government, i don't know if we have any muslim leaders in parliament?

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sypkan commented Sunday, 5 Mar 2017 at 10:43am

I'm not against Islam indod, I think it serves a great purpose in indonesia, but I'm a weirdio, I think religion is generaly good. Good post btw, especially the points about christians and violence in PNG etc.

I'm saying that government offices and departments have developed across australia, and the western world, to facillitate multiculturalisn. This is especially the case in the last 30 years where this industry has developed a presence at every level of management across government and the corporate sector.

That's a lot of people in offices sitting around thinking of not much more than ways to help people get along. Their annual conference must be a real hoot when they present their latest ideas on how to meddle in people's daily interactions.

But hey I guess there's a need...accepting there is a need, post september 11 presented particular challenges to these people. One could argue they finally had to earn their keep. I don't reckon they did so well.

It's hard to think that the current divisions in society could be any worse without having those departments there doing their work

that's not to suggest that these people are totally useless and unneccesary (though a heap undoubtably are), just that their decisions for dealing with a fast changing world have been a bit shit

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GuySmiley commented Sunday, 5 Mar 2017 at 1:09pm

There you go all you Hanson supporters .... straight from the horse's mouth


pro Putin
anti vax
anti muslim
supports cuts to penalty rates
non committal on cuts to company tax

What did Forest say about that box of chocolates? Run Forest run ....

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indo-dreaming commented Sunday, 5 Mar 2017 at 2:05pm

Although there is no party with policies i all agree with.

Yeah when she get's in wrong she gets it very wrong, but she also has some really good policies and is concerned with some important issues that often get overlooked.

A couple of her policies you could even views as left leaning like, for example, for medical cannabis, for right to die with dignity (euthanasia), she is not opposed to gay marriage.

Im not a relly a fan, but i do hate it how the media treat her, and people just assume all her policies are bad.

Unless i went looking (actually after Blowin pointed it out) id probably think the same and just assume everything she believes in and all her policies are bad, thanks to the media.

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indo-dreaming commented Sunday, 5 Mar 2017 at 2:09pm

Anti Vax that's the one that really gets me FFS.

BTW Sypkan i know you are not anti muslim, i just needed to get that out of my head.

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happyasS commented Sunday, 5 Mar 2017 at 4:19pm

hanson...."no one cared about children more than their parents, and urged people to “do their own research”.

OWN RESEARCH....where? on the INTERWEB?

proof of how nonsensical she is.

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GuySmiley commented Sunday, 5 Mar 2017 at 4:36pm

That terrible elite media accurately reporting what she and her crazy senators actually say.
#sobad #fakenews

I guess her wider appeal will be tested in the WA election next week. WA a state that argued against the Federal mining tax but spent the mining royalties plus way more and went from a 3.5 billion deficit to one near on $40 billion during the time of a mining boom and under the LNP (mis)management.

Question for the LNP government, how much annual royalties are you getting from the NW gas shelf? None?

So if the WA LNP government is so bad why would Hanson enter into a grubby vote swapping deal when she is meant to be the great hope for Australia?

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indo-dreaming commented Sunday, 5 Mar 2017 at 6:18pm

It's not that it's fake news, it's just that the media focus on the bad policies and never the other policies.

99% of people that wouldn't vote for One Nation really have no idea about her other policies and just assume that they are all crazy redneck type policies.

I admit up until a year or so ago i thought the same.

It's a huge problem in the media bias reporting that is done in a way to coax people into thinking a certain way.

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sypkan commented Sunday, 5 Mar 2017 at 7:07pm

This berkeley free speach riot thingy just gets weirder by the day.

An MMA fighter punching on with a group of anti facist rioters for beating up an old dude for being a facist...el bizzarro

I've gotta say when jake shields confronts the antifacists with words they look like a bunch of morons. He should be debating them on TV to see what the fuck they are on about.

Following some video links from this story it seems parts of the US are hell bent on civil war, some scary vids out there


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GuySmiley commented Sunday, 5 Mar 2017 at 9:19pm

Ok Indo I gird up my loins and visited One Nation's webpage. Lots of motherhood statements there but I was left scratching my head, seems like she supports apprenticeship schemes and euthanasia (both good) and there might be other things in there I could possibly agree with but her views on climate, tax, Islam, fire arms, voting, manufacturing, ice users, etc etc are just plan naive (at best) and F stupid (at worse) and do her no favours if she aspires to be considered anything other than a fringe political player e.g. making ice users play for their own rehab, yeah how will that work?

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happyasS commented Sunday, 5 Mar 2017 at 9:25pm

indo. i dont need to read her policies. i've heard her talk and i don't believe that she as a person is suitable for politics at the highest level. for example; her inability to clearly convey her position without tying herself in a knot. it shows that her motherhood statements have not been well thought through prior to opening her mouth. its also possible that she's just plain not that intelligent.

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Gaz1799 commented Monday, 6 Mar 2017 at 10:11am

I know a few people that voted one nation, including my wife, and they only did it because they didn't like the LNP or the ALP and had no one else to vote for. Her anti-vax comments will be the death of her though as she's just not smart enough to play in the arena she's in. Too easily manipulated in my opinion.
I actually joined Bernardi's Conservative party the other day despite not agreeing with 95% of his ideals, although the website is pretty scarce on details. Apparently I'm now a "founding member" and get a you beaut thank you email for my $25 effort. I did it because we need him to kick the LNP & Family First up the ass and right-wingers sick of Hanson need to go somewhere.
I couldn't vote for him because religion doesn't belong in politics but we should never underestimate the huge number of conservative churchies out there who vote for the LNP. I also know the bloke from around the place and he'll at least do what he says he'll do, which is more than I can say for anyone else in government.

In my view, I reckon the first step to fixing our system is rinsing the hard right out of the LNP so hopefully the party implodes. I reckon the ALP would fade from relevance after that as class warfare is the only thing keeping them alive. We need TWO new parties for adults to vote for not these little protest parties but the only way we'll get it is if we vote for anyone but the big two. The westminster system is rigged to keep the same dickhead parties with the most money in government.

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sypkan commented Monday, 6 Mar 2017 at 10:53am

Interesting points gaz1799, and good on you for being so straight up, people keeping their positions in the shadows on this site piss me off. How can you engage in a political forum and keep your position ambiguous? Seriously? Poor form.

I reckon your right about the anti vax thing being a problem for hanson. It kind of grates against many of her supporters I imagine. Maybe she's going for the byron vote?

Joking, sort of. Interesting trump went down this road too. I actually think some of her points are worth making. And the autism link has been talked about for a long time with nothing convincing to prove either way, doesn't hurt ro talk about it, just really surprised she's the one to do it.

Surprised you're signing up for corey too. I can't get past the religion thing with him, but I do like that he's willing to stir things up. He seems a bit of an odd partnership with latham, worlds apart on some issues you would think. What in particular do you like about him?

I like that he stirs up the self righteous intolerant ones that are always preaching tolerance, but that's about it.

Also surprised your wife can't find anyone better than one nation, so many others out there now. But maybe they're all a bit too 'out there'. Besides nagative gearing I cannot fault xenophon. Seems to find a balanced reasonable view on every issue. Unions hate him, conservatives respectfully hate him. By the old saying of 'if your pissing both sides off you're doing something right' he's doing alright in my book.

Back to the pop up independents and some libs being a bit 'out there'. I don't reckon the likes of christensen and co. are going anywhere. I reckon this is the new normal for small parts of oz

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Gaz1799 commented Monday, 6 Mar 2017 at 11:39am

Pauline is definitely only tapping the QLD vein I reckon sypo.

I doubt there will be any partnership with Latham, him & Bernardi would be just drumming up some air time I reckon. No one other than a few bigger parties have the profile to reach voters and the media gives Pauline so much free airtime. My wife wasn't passionate or whatever just thought its either them or greens so went with one nation.

I don't really agree with any of Bernardi's policies except perhaps a more patriotic approach, so there ya go but I figured its worth supporting a new party if it helps dislodge an older one.

I remember when the gay/bestiality comment came out we went to the same gym. He was a genuine bloke etc 6'6" and pretty much a viking compared to the regulars, definitely not your standard overfed MP. There were a couple of guys there who I reckon were gay and all were friends, but he stopped going afterwards because he didn't want them to stop. He didn't dislike them but thought they would appreciate him not being there, which was fair enough and I thought better of him for it. He didn't have a shred of malice in him towards those guys, even if they did after those comments were published.

I've never engaged him in a discussion about abortion/gay marriage because its a bit heavy and we would have opposing views but I figure how bad could he be? Half of the LNP and half the ALP have the same opinion.

Also, I sent out an email 6 months back to my local MP, state MP, 3 ALP senators, 2 Lib senators and Nick X regarding how pissed off I was with a certain government policy and asked them to argue on reality & Bernardi sent a personal reply whilst he was currently at the UN. Nick X raised the issue 2 days later in the senate also, but didn't reply me. Didn't even get an auto reply from anyone else.

So here I am, hate all his policies, but seems a decent bloke. Like a few ALP policies, but idiots. Like a few LNP policies but also idiots. Hanson is Hanson. Nick X doesn't want government, seems like alright bloke. So we either vote for more of the same or to burn the place down.