Making use of our prison system.
You'd have a hard time getting that past the Civil Libetarians Indo.
What? Actually work for your entitlements? You're kidding.
Great idea though and one fully supported by me, not just recycling either, many other areas too.
Some aboriginal prisoners in country NSW build demountable houses for aboriginal communities and there may be other programs that have prisoners doing useful work but their success depends on motivation. In terms of recycling, the work needs to be done accurately or it is useless. If your streams are contaminated by other material they have to go to landfill. So forcing prisoners to do the work would be pointless as they would be either careless or deliberately sabotage the process.
Not an altogether bad idea, in terms of the environment. we could also keep up the pressure on the manufacturers of the overpriced sugar drinks and plastic bags to be a part of the recycling process, but we know how popular that is with them. much better to have islands of plastic in our oceans. regarding prisons, now australia is headed towards the rapid privatisation of incarceration facilities like our utilities. we know how well the taxpayers end up with these daels, profits for the good ol boys, taxes/costs go up, and in terms of prisons they need to be full to maximum capacity to maximise profits. So we could invent a heap of new laws that we know people will break to imprison as many people as we can. prison sentences are decided in terms of time of incarceration as the punishment, not the conditions. people like zen again, if you dont like civil libertarians, why dont you move somewhere where you have no civil rights and all decisions are made for you, like singapore for example? weve got stuff all liberty left and people still go on about it. i thought surfers were a cluey and insightful bunch, protective of freedoms and choice but im really starting to wonder, the herd really have infiltrated the culture.
Sadly hem-stret intonation is lost over the internet.
I agree, we should invent new laws to allow new prisons to flourish and to further dilute our hard-fought for civil liberties. But not without repealing an old law first though, in that way we could maintain a balance and still keep our legal system ticking over.
Hang on, you were being facetious?
I have nothing against Civil Libetarians (actually, one I do- a very prominent Queensland Civil Libetarian was frightfully rude to my mother once and to this day I would take great pleasure in smacking him in the mouth if I could) and I did move somewhere where I will always be a second class citizen so take that!
I have always wondered what would happen if a Civil Libetarian was bashed, robbed and left permanently disabled both physically and financially. How would they feel if the perpetrator of the crime was let off on a good behaviour bond with no conviction recorded, due to their age and troubled upbringing? Are victims afforded the same rights?
I am all for the rights and freedoms of everyday hard-working people, who do their best to raise families and contribute to a productive society. Those that take the easy way out through laziness, theft, greed, violence, corruption etc- they can get fucked.
The herd infiltrating the culture? Get down off your high horse mate.
The whole scenario is pretty classic. Here we are 2013, the showcase of 'advanced civilization', figuring out how to build more even more advanced prisons, to get rid of our more and more civilised, intelligent, advanced pollution. Imagine being intelligent and advanced enough to not even be in that ludicrous scenario, like some of the cultures that our wonderous forefathers butchered and 'civilised'.
Use Indo's idea, but instead of prisons use detention centers.
There is or was a Commonwealth program called Commonwealth Employment Development Program (CEDP). Its common name was Work For The Dole.
How I know about it it ran in Aboriginal communities located on Aboriginal land with great success but I think it also ran in other areas/communities.
How it worked in simple terms was this. If the dole was $250 pw and you were gardener earning $500 pw and you became unemployed you would work 2.5 days as a gardener for the community in which you lived for your wages/dole.
So people worked with dignity and received their wages from the Commonwealth. Win,win,win.
While it is a highly successful program my opinion is that government really doesn't like it because it costs more because it requires administration within the public sector and at community level.
So while there are great benefits to the individual and community with government budgets always under pressure CEDP are or were rare.
There are also programs where low risk criminals are used in community works like rubbish removal from highways (my local council do this).
Long story to get to my point ...........
Why not close the detention centres let refugees work under a CEDP type program like indo suggested above if they can't find their own work and surely it would be a lot cheaper for the government and provide better outcomes for us as a nation and for the refugees.
As an aside ..... what I mention above about the administration cost of CEDPs is also relevant for the success or otherwise of Tony Abbott's 15,000 strong Green Army; I would be very interested to see his costings on the additional administration cost of the program, I suspect it would be huge or fudged.
@zenagain, thanks for the grammatical lesson. Granted, poor 'intonation'. If the example of punishment metered out by an offence you describe was true, of course I would not agree with something like that. I don't know how you correlate civil liberties with a case like that. That is common sense. It does heighten the chance that the offender will go out and do it again, it provides a lot of money for lawyers and keeps the legal system cashed up, keeps people fearful and thinking we need lots of stern looking cops around, and gets the people baying for 'problem/solutions'. Effectively, putting the noose around our own necks. Like the current sentencing periods for murder, in many recent cases I have seen a lesser incarceration period, than would a victimless crime like a drug offence receive. I guess another example I would use, in terms of liberties and correct justice (non australian case), would be something like the West Memphis three. Glad you've experienced a different culture in terms of 'civil' rights.
We have great opportunities in Australia, its like a safe haven for decency and the chance to live a fulfilling existence. I just think it wont last with the prevailing attitudes out there. I'm gonna get off my high horse. Like Jello Biafra sung in 'the last scream of the missing neighbours', society is going to get its comeuppance. I realise I shouldn't care, like most, stuff the environment, our lifestyle and your fat kids. There is a reason why AFP, local police and most emergency services are starting to look like soldiers. There wont be much difference soon. Orwellian I know, wasn't he on his high horse......... (facetious?) I promise to post nothing other than fart jokes and talking about boobs for the next week or two. All the fat kids would lose a lot of weight if they were back in the coal mines though. Boobs...............
hem-stret, I was being facetious too.
I think the reason we have more laws is to offer us more protection when somebody chooses to do something that is not in our interests. I stand by what I said though, if a new law is introduced, another should be repealed.
Also, I think cops have waaay less power than they used to. Their authority has been so diluted over the years that it seems that the laws seem to favour the crims. Our revolving door of justice seems to be an incentive to commit crimes on any scale. Can you think of a time in Australia's history where organised crime has been so prevalent? Or disorganised crime for that matter?
I agree 100% with you that sentencing quite often doesn't match the crime, especially when you equate drugs (manufacture, supply and possession) into the mix. As soon as governments legalise drugs to lesson the criminal element the better.
Anyway, I think people miss the point about this thread. My impression was that it was started as a suggestion to utilise the abundant supply of cheap labour to contribute to the betterment of the environment and society. I think that is a good thing and if a few thieves, thugs or crooks feel that their liberties are being compromised by having to sort some garbage or pull a few weeds, then tough shit.
Here here Zenagain.
Peace be with you hem-stret.
You stay outta' trouble now you crazy cat.
Fair enough Hemp- street
Quote" i lost every last ounce"
P.s Hairy Big Big Boobs
Its a relief to know the 'free ride' spirit lives on in this hallowed electronic forum. Stickin with the hair theme, and a great name for a rock band, 'bearded clam'. Lucky it was only every last ounce and not pound. Hysteria is my guardian angel.
Pster, Mentioned something in the boat people/refugee thread that triggered an idea I've had before.
Basically the idea is that you combine prisons with rubbish tips/waste disposal depots and turn them into recycling centres.
And you have the inmates all sort through everything separately, glass, different types of plastics, papers/cardboard, metals, everything that can be recycled or even reused or sold.
Ive seen documentaries on India and the lengths they go to recycle plastics, sorting into all different types.
Obviously you would have to work out a system so inmates are separated, otherwise they may use sharp objects as weapons on each other, im not sure how it would work, on conveyer belts or what, but in my mind it could be a great way to use the wasted labour, wasted money of our prison system and also make a real contribution in a positive way environmentally and reduce land fill, wasted materials etc.
Obviously its not something that could happen everywhere, but surely it could be tried in a large city or something, and obviously the prisoners would be secure and nowhere near the public.