Australia - you're standing in it
…self defence means meeting violence with violence ;)
&pp=0gcJCRsBo7VqN5tD- even epstein’s lawyer is in their camp, what a guy ;);)
Now back to Australia. OK so we had the Libs catastrophic election implosion, nuclear implosion I might add, and in the aftermath I said they won't challenge for government again as they've been wedged - in the high income inner cities the Teals have their measure (as their voters are economically comfortable and can afford to net zero; just as Labor have been replaced by Greens here for other issues), and in the country it's Nationals; and Labor effectively appealed to the outer suburban voters who are getting crushed by cost of living & squeeze.
I pointed out the large outer suburban areas (and country) are far more likely to see resurgent nationalist parties flip both Liberal (toast) and Labor. We are seeing this throughout Europe (eg Austria, Denmark, Germany, Italy, Sweden etc) and most recently with Reform in the UK, and in the US with the leadup to the Trump election. Here I note One Nation was about 4.5% of the vote 2022 election, was 6+% of the vote this election and a recent poll had them at 9%... This is the real threat to the two big governing parties, and the place it will happen.
In this vein, the March for Australia on the weekend will be fascinating - it will be the first big widespread expression of the people who have been left out of the current paradigm in Australia. We're not talking foreign causes, we're talking those who haven't been represented well in the current system, who were born here for the most. Elements of what was the white working class, whose actions have led to great change elsewhere. (There may be some Nazis, too!)
So what are their grievances?
https://marchforaustralia.org/wp-content/uploads/2025/08/MELBOURNE.pdf
We will see how the day goes. I still reckon Australia is 10-15 years behind the other places mentioned above, as we've floated on the prosperity of our mining and real estate booms. Maybe we will follow sooner.
Good post VJ….I just read their poster and found it a bit odd.
Whereas I do believe that mass migration needs to stop for obvious reasons,..
I find it strange that they have targeted the Indian migrants in their poster…
All the Indians seem like go getters to me and settle into the country well.
When a country gets over a billion people they obviously will flow out somewhere as will the Chinese population….yes the world is getting smaller.
Why didn’t the march be more inclusive as I’m sure lots of Australian migrants from India are concerned about the topic as well.
There seems to be a lack of wisdom in the promotion which to me makes it stupid and it could possibly even be a set up…….
People from countries who quietly go about their business, quietly practise their religion, raise their families according to our Australian cultural laws and values are welcome.
Hard core Islamists should never be allowed to enter our country as they have an agenda and cultural laws that no one will like the end result of…
There’s plenty of countries for them……
….all the rest of the world are welcome…..
Slowly though…..slow and steady……it’s currently unsustainable.
It really is a wicked problem in the traditional sense.
All surveys show a solid majority of Australians wanted lower levels of immigration, with some surveys showing a figure near 70%.
Yet here we are with a fraught, toxic discussion where, a huge chunk of these same people wouldn't be seen dead at a "March for Australia" or anything similar.
I know I wouldn't.
So one of the big drivers of housing in-affordability and also environmental degradation is untouchable due to the race card.
Of course to a huge extent this is no accident, vested interests have dedicated massive amounts of time and money stretching back decades.
To add to the problem, lazy policy and blind adherence to globalised neoliberalism mean that our economy is predicated on the population ponzi scheme.
And all of this is fertile ground for extremists of all persuasions, right down to the Sov Cit mob.
We've got a a leading expert on religious and violent extremism at Deakin University saying he has seen an emerging pattern of sovereign citizenship groups and other fringe movements spreading across rural and regional Australia due certainly in large part to rapidly increasing inequality in the regions, driven by house prices (population growth) and a lack of industry (globalised neoliberalism).
And as you've said VJ, if national prosperity wavers then watch things get even uglier - I've heard it said that cosmopolitanism works great in liberal democracies while the economic going is good.
After that, people hunt for scapegoats.
And when the individuals brought in by the powers-that-be become the scapegoats, we have a problem.
Pop isn't the only thing that eats itself.
The sudden, generational wealth created by globalised neoliberalism comes at the cost of long-term planning, but in the moment it all made sense. Why fund TAFE when we can cut taxes and import already-trained migrants?
It's not hard to look around and see 999 more cuts to the death of national stability. All of them were sensible, in the moment. Lowered taxes, increased immediate prosperity etc etc.
Hi VJ.
What originally was a protest on the “Cost Of Living Crisis”, promoted mainly by people who believed tattoos were a better investment than food, has been hijacked by the extreme RWNJ as a protest against immigration. While the RWNJ are an easily excitable bunch, I put much of the blame on shit stirring urgers like Leith Van Onselen and Matt Barrie who have repeatedly spread copious quantities of bullshit about migration: particularly Barrie who does it all through a sly grin and an unhealthy dose of arrogance. But what else would you expect from a self-proclaimed Libertarian, and saviour of Australia. In addition, you have elements of the extreme political right urging them on, and clowns like Katter and Ruddick who state they will attend and support the protests.
You will have all the “Sovcits” attending, looking for a confrontation with Police. Given one of their own is on the run after the murder of two police officers will only embolden them.
Then you have the Neo Nazis joining in looking to create more chaos and fear in the community, covertly supported by Moira Deeming.
Bringing up the rear urging them on will be all those “One Nation One Flag” patriots waving the Aussie Flag. But as Samuel Johnson said, “Patriotism is the last refuge of the scoundrel”.
A quick look at various presentations on YT supporting the "March For Australia" reveal a group of blatantly racist lowlifes always willing to attack our indigenous people and anyone who does not fit their perception of racial purity. I attend a doctor who was born in Australia to African parents: he’s been busy removing my melanomas, giving me a good chance of seeing out another 20 years or more. Parcel deliveries arrive at our door in the hand of a smiling Indian man, who has come here looking for a better life. I dread what these two think about what is going on. I have been fortunate enough to travel and have been treated with courtesy and respect by black and white and every colour in between. Muslim, Jew, Buddhist, Christian have all shown me kindness and generosity. I make every effort to do the same in return.
My ancestors came here freely in 1850, escaping the squalor of Paisley, Scotland. I am eternally grateful for their decision. Like some others it hasn’t all been a bed of roses for us. I’ve been kicked in the head a few times, but managed to get going again. I don’t search for a scapegoat to blame for events in my life.
Australia has given me the best opportunities in life and I am intensely proud of this country: the attitude of the people I grew up with, the tolerance, humour and pleasant disposition of the population is renowned around the globe.
I sincerely hope Monday arrives with that pride intact.
stunet wrote:Pop isn't the only thing that eats itself.
The sudden, generational wealth created by globalised neoliberalism comes at the cost of long-term planning, but in the moment it all made sense. Why fund TAFE when we can cut taxes and import already-trained migrants?
It's not hard to look around and see 999 more cuts to the death of national stability. All of them were sensible, in the moment. Lowered taxes, increased immediate prosperity etc etc.
Someone once said something about there's no such thing as a free lunch.
The theft of the best and brightest from countries who need them the most is another story.
Maybe the march should also be about climate change given the potential for refugees wanting somewhere to go after the Ganges and Mekong deltas are inundated.
A Salty Dog wrote:Hi VJ.
What originally was a protest on the “Cost Of Living Crisis”, promoted mainly by people who believed tattoos were a better investment than food, has been hijacked by the extreme RWNJ as a protest against immigration. While the RWNJ are an easily excitable bunch, I put much of the blame on shit stirring urgers like Leith Van Onselen and Matt Barrie who have repeatedly spread copious quantities of bullshit about migration: particularly Barrie who does it all through a sly grin and an unhealthy dose of arrogance. But what else would you expect from a self-proclaimed Libertarian, and saviour of Australia. In addition, you have elements of the extreme political right urging them on, and clowns like Katter and Ruddick who state they will attend and support the protests.
You will have all the “Sovcits” attending, looking for a confrontation with Police. Given one of their own is on the run after the murder of two police officers will only embolden them.
Then you have the Neo Nazis joining in looking to create more chaos and fear in the community, covertly supported by Moira Deeming.
Bringing up the rear urging them on will be all those “One Nation One Flag” patriots waving the Aussie Flag. But as Samuel Johnson said, “Patriotism is the last refuge of the scoundrel”.
A quick look at various presentations on YT supporting the "March For Australia" reveal a group of blatantly racist lowlifes always willing to attack our indigenous people and anyone who does not fit their perception of racial purity. I attend a doctor who was born in Australia to African parents: he’s been busy removing my melanomas, giving me a good chance of seeing out another 20 years or more. Parcel deliveries arrive at our door in the hand of a smiling Indian man, who has come here looking for a better life. I dread what these two think about what is going on. I have been fortunate enough to travel and have been treated with courtesy and respect by black and white and every colour in between. Muslim, Jew, Buddhist, Christian have all shown me kindness and generosity. I make every effort to do the same in return.
My ancestors came here freely in 1850, escaping the squalor of Paisley, Scotland. I am eternally grateful for their decision. Like some others it hasn’t all been a bed of roses for us. I’ve been kicked in the head a few times, but managed to get going again. I don’t search for a scapegoat to blame for events in my life.
Australia has given me the best opportunities in life and I am intensely proud of this country: the attitude of the people I grew up with, the tolerance, humour and pleasant disposition of the population is renowned around the globe.
I sincerely hope Monday arrives with that pride intact.
Great comment Salty...
Go to any aged care facility or hospital and check out the make up of staff from cleaners to specialist doctors. Heaps of different races, who without the system would collapse.
This racist bs of blaming immigrants for all of Australia's woes is toxic, and no good can come of it.
Housing is a huge issue, but the problem is mainly tax breaks, neg gearing etc etc.
Thanks Johnny....
Blaming immigrants as cause is deceitful and wrong.
Edit, saying all that i do believe you should be an Australian citizen to ve able to own property here in oz....
H2O wrote:Maybe the march should also be about climate change given the potential for refugees wanting somewhere to go after the Ganges and Mekong deltas are inundated.
Jeez that's a good point.
If you're anti-immigration you must therefore absolutely be in favour doing something about AGW.
Reckon there'd be some massive contradictions amongst the right wing anti-immigration mob.
"Blaming immigrants as cause is deceitful and wrong."
Andy-mac would you acknowledge that high levels of population growth driven mainly by high levels of immigration are a major factor in housing unaffordability in Australia?
It's from 2018 but this piece from the Grattan Institute says that it is.
https://grattan.edu.au/news/how-migration-affects-housing-affordability/
Keep in mind that more recently, the population grew by almost 500,000 people in 2024.
That's a new Canberra, our 8th largest city, in a year.
they better get in quick.. more coastal options, but.
.
the new (returned) inland sea fed by what is currently the algae extinction zone : /
.
some short-term high-volume/high-density housing with oceans views will be around for a few years (subject to weather events, fish stocks and marine craft availability)
.
Phwoar, think of the development potential for canal estates!
AndyM wrote:"Blaming immigrants as cause is deceitful and wrong."
Andy-mac would you acknowledge that high levels of population growth driven mainly by high levels of immigration are a major factor in housing unaffordability in Australia?
It's from 2018 but this piece from the Grattan Institute says that it is.
https://grattan.edu.au/news/how-migration-affects-housing-affordability/
Keep in mind that more recently, the population grew by almost 500,000 people in 2024.
That's a new Canberra, our 8th largest city, in a year.
I would say it is a factor, but a minor one in regards to other key drivers.
As mentioned by many, neg gearing, cgt, maybe limit how many investment properties, smsf's, building regulations, developers not releasing land etc
All these factors have a bigger effect and they are not being touched.
Re levels of immigration, if we as a nation want decent health care, we need immigrants. Go to any hospital, a big number of doctors, nurses, etc are immigrants.
It's many years of mismanagement, we cannot fill key positions for the running of society without immigration.
Yes let's discuss levels, but to solely blame immigration in my view is wrong.
And it can unleash the dark side of political discourse.
Unless you are indigenous, we are all immigrants.
“Unless you are indigenous, we are all immigrants.”
Truth ;)
& we go alright
(when choosing not to play blame games)
;);)
?si=HmAM__D2A-c4g5ln ""Cutting back family reunion visas would have substantial social costs. Limiting skilled migration would hurt the economy and many businesses. Restricting growth in international students would reduce universities’ incomes.
There are also broader costs to cutting the migrant intake. It would hit the Commonwealth budget in the short term. Most migrants are of working age and pay full rates of personal income tax. And many temporary migrants, such as 457 visa holders, can’t draw on a range of government services and benefits, including welfare and Medicare. More importantly, cutting back on younger, skilled migrants is likely to hurt the budget and the economy in the long term""
From.the attached article.
In final paragraph mentions anning policy, I would argue the lack of planning over 30 years, rather than immigration is the major problem.
Shortern tried to address some of the big issues when he ran, but was outright rejected by electorate. Easier for a party / group to lump blame on immigrants.
andy-mac wrote:AndyM wrote:"Blaming immigrants as cause is deceitful and wrong."
Andy-mac would you acknowledge that high levels of population growth driven mainly by high levels of immigration are a major factor in housing unaffordability in Australia?
It's from 2018 but this piece from the Grattan Institute says that it is.
https://grattan.edu.au/news/how-migration-affects-housing-affordability/
Keep in mind that more recently, the population grew by almost 500,000 people in 2024.
That's a new Canberra, our 8th largest city, in a year.I would say it is a factor, but a minor one in regards to other key drivers.
As mentioned by many, neg gearing, cgt, maybe limit how many investment properties, smsf's, building regulations, developers not releasing land etc
All these factors have a bigger effect and they are not being touched.Re levels of immigration, if we as a nation want decent health care, we need immigrants. Go to any hospital, a big number of doctors, nurses, etc are immigrants.
It's many years of mismanagement, we cannot fill key positions for the running of society without immigration.
Yes let's discuss levels, but to solely blame immigration in my view is wrong.
And it can unleash the dark side of political discourse.Unless you are indigenous, we are all immigrants.
Andy let it be known that I have never cited immigration as the sole cause of house price rises.
Very very few people would, and they'd be either grossly ignorant or they'd have a dodgy agenda.
But population growth is still a significant factor, there's no doubt.
But I have to be clear that, for me at least, it's not all about house prices.
My beef includes infrastructure that will never catch up with growth.
I work in the local hospital and I'm fully aware that as things are at the moment the place would pretty much grind to a halt without staff, specifically nurses, from India, Nepal, Ireland, England.
But at the same time, the hospital that I work in was largely built from scratch and finished only 10 or so years ago and it's already way too small because population growth in the area is already outstripping the design parameters of the place. I'm not talking about people using ED because doctors don't bulk bill, I'm talking about a fundamental lack of beds, of "bed lock" most days with people spending days days in ED because there just aren't any spaces available in wards.
Not to mention of course the roads, schools, train systems that are badly losing the race to keep up.
My issue with population growth also includes the endless clearing of land, the endless consumption of everything.
And just how everything gets busier, and faster, and more crowded, with people's behaviour changing to reflect this.
"Unless you are indigenous, we are all immigrants"
I don't know what the point of statements like this is apart from trying to brush off any opinions the speaker doesn't like.
It certainly doesn't help to address problems in the here and now.
AndyM wrote:andy-mac wrote:AndyM wrote:"Blaming immigrants as cause is deceitful and wrong."
Andy-mac would you acknowledge that high levels of population growth driven mainly by high levels of immigration are a major factor in housing unaffordability in Australia?
It's from 2018 but this piece from the Grattan Institute says that it is.
https://grattan.edu.au/news/how-migration-affects-housing-affordability/
Keep in mind that more recently, the population grew by almost 500,000 people in 2024.
That's a new Canberra, our 8th largest city, in a year.I would say it is a factor, but a minor one in regards to other key drivers.
As mentioned by many, neg gearing, cgt, maybe limit how many investment properties, smsf's, building regulations, developers not releasing land etc
All these factors have a bigger effect and they are not being touched.Re levels of immigration, if we as a nation want decent health care, we need immigrants. Go to any hospital, a big number of doctors, nurses, etc are immigrants.
It's many years of mismanagement, we cannot fill key positions for the running of society without immigration.
Yes let's discuss levels, but to solely blame immigration in my view is wrong.
And it can unleash the dark side of political discourse.Unless you are indigenous, we are all immigrants.
Andy let it be known that I have never cited immigration as the sole cause of house price rises.
Very very few people would, and they'd be either grossly ignorant or they'd have a dodgy agenda.
"Unless you are indigenous, we are all immigrants"
I don't know what the point of statements like this is apart from trying to brush off any opinions the speaker doesn't like.
It certainly doesn't help to address problems in the here and now.
I work in the local hospital and I'm fully aware that as things are at the moment the place would pretty much grind to a halt without staff, specifically nurses, from India, Nepal, Ireland, England.
Sorry Andy, was not my intention to brush you off in any way with that comment.
I get what you are saying and no doubt there is truth in it.
I just get uncomfortable with 'some' not you, that are banging on about immigration.
It can awaken the darker side of many as we have seen throughout history.
The marches planned for the weekend are frightening to me.
As Salty mentioned earlier, I am hoping to wake up Monday morning not ashamed to be Australian.
No offence was intended towards you.
march 'organised by nazis' you say...
yeh nah
highjacked by nazis?
yeh they tried
maybe... or, the looney's trying to make it look like it's organised by nazis tried...
but she's a white supremacists...
...a racist they cried!
yeh nah
not according to one of the nuttiest pro palestine propaganda-ists on the internet...
andy-mac wrote:AndyM wrote:andy-mac wrote:AndyM wrote:"Blaming immigrants as cause is deceitful and wrong."
Andy-mac would you acknowledge that high levels of population growth driven mainly by high levels of immigration are a major factor in housing unaffordability in Australia?
It's from 2018 but this piece from the Grattan Institute says that it is.
https://grattan.edu.au/news/how-migration-affects-housing-affordability/
Keep in mind that more recently, the population grew by almost 500,000 people in 2024.
That's a new Canberra, our 8th largest city, in a year.I would say it is a factor, but a minor one in regards to other key drivers.
As mentioned by many, neg gearing, cgt, maybe limit how many investment properties, smsf's, building regulations, developers not releasing land etc
All these factors have a bigger effect and they are not being touched.Re levels of immigration, if we as a nation want decent health care, we need immigrants. Go to any hospital, a big number of doctors, nurses, etc are immigrants.
It's many years of mismanagement, we cannot fill key positions for the running of society without immigration.
Yes let's discuss levels, but to solely blame immigration in my view is wrong.
And it can unleash the dark side of political discourse.Unless you are indigenous, we are all immigrants.
Andy let it be known that I have never cited immigration as the sole cause of house price rises.
Very very few people would, and they'd be either grossly ignorant or they'd have a dodgy agenda.
"Unless you are indigenous, we are all immigrants"
I don't know what the point of statements like this is apart from trying to brush off any opinions the speaker doesn't like.
It certainly doesn't help to address problems in the here and now.
I work in the local hospital and I'm fully aware that as things are at the moment the place would pretty much grind to a halt without staff, specifically nurses, from India, Nepal, Ireland, England.Sorry Andy, was not my intention to brush you off in any way with that comment.
I get what you are saying and no doubt there is truth in it.I just get uncomfortable with 'some' not you, that are banging on about immigration.
It can awaken the darker side of many as we have seen throughout history.The marches planned for the weekend are frightening to me.
As Salty mentioned earlier, I am hoping to wake up Monday morning not ashamed to be Australian.
No offence was intended towards you.
None taken mate.
I'm massively uncomfortable about a lot of people banging on about population growth (immigration) too, but we can either (somehow) begin to address it now or we can self-censor, stick our fingers in our ears and see what happens in this country with regards to right-wing populism, decaying infrastructure, declining standards of living, environmental degradation etc etc.
It's a joke, population growth can increase out of sight but if you mention it, you're lumped in with the racists and the rednecks.
Shit setup, and it's not accidental, it's excellent political wedging that's been 30 years in the making.
AndyM wrote:andy-mac wrote:AndyM wrote:andy-mac wrote:AndyM wrote:"Blaming immigrants as cause is deceitful and wrong."
Andy-mac would you acknowledge that high levels of population growth driven mainly by high levels of immigration are a major factor in housing unaffordability in Australia?
It's from 2018 but this piece from the Grattan Institute says that it is.
https://grattan.edu.au/news/how-migration-affects-housing-affordability/
Keep in mind that more recently, the population grew by almost 500,000 people in 2024.
That's a new Canberra, our 8th largest city, in a year.I would say it is a factor, but a minor one in regards to other key drivers.
As mentioned by many, neg gearing, cgt, maybe limit how many investment properties, smsf's, building regulations, developers not releasing land etc
All these factors have a bigger effect and they are not being touched.Re levels of immigration, if we as a nation want decent health care, we need immigrants. Go to any hospital, a big number of doctors, nurses, etc are immigrants.
It's many years of mismanagement, we cannot fill key positions for the running of society without immigration.
Yes let's discuss levels, but to solely blame immigration in my view is wrong.
And it can unleash the dark side of political discourse.Unless you are indigenous, we are all immigrants.
Andy let it be known that I have never cited immigration as the sole cause of house price rises.
Very very few people would, and they'd be either grossly ignorant or they'd have a dodgy agenda.
"Unless you are indigenous, we are all immigrants"
I don't know what the point of statements like this is apart from trying to brush off any opinions the speaker doesn't like.
It certainly doesn't help to address problems in the here and now.
I work in the local hospital and I'm fully aware that as things are at the moment the place would pretty much grind to a halt without staff, specifically nurses, from India, Nepal, Ireland, England.Sorry Andy, was not my intention to brush you off in any way with that comment.
I get what you are saying and no doubt there is truth in it.I just get uncomfortable with 'some' not you, that are banging on about immigration.
It can awaken the darker side of many as we have seen throughout history.The marches planned for the weekend are frightening to me.
As Salty mentioned earlier, I am hoping to wake up Monday morning not ashamed to be Australian.
No offence was intended towards you.
None taken mate.
I'm massively uncomfortable about a lot of people banging on about population growth (immigration) too, but we can either (somehow) begin to address it now or we can self-censor, stick our fingers in our ears and see what happens in this country with regards to right-wing populism, decaying infrastructure, declining standards of living, environmental degradation etc etc.
It's a joke, population growth can increase out of sight but if you mention it, you're lumped in with the racists and the rednecks.
Shit setup, and it's not accidental, it's excellent political wedging that's been 30 years in the making.
I think we might be on the same page mate at the end of the day.
Have a great weekend!
The "I can't believe it's not politics" thread.