Turnbull rolls over "again" to the ultra right

I wouldn't say his negotiations are lacking sheepo..best thing ever he didn't hook up with Oakshott etc. That limited Gillard/labor into decisions to keep themselves afloat. He had prev. experience with the Greens,who are Green when they wanna be. Why didn't Gillard call for a DD when the result was a hung parliament ? quite simply she would've lost. You seem to have got lost on the 50% . 50% of the house of reps but not in the senate,only once did he gain hold of both houses.. As far as I can see the reason he has cut, cut, cut is because labor over spent, spent, spent.
@happass I think you've pretty much nailed it.
Did anyone see Bill Shortens speech yesterday (at some rally in Canberra I think)? WOW wasn't that a throwback to his days of union president! I could nearly hear the 'solidarity forever' song in the background. You can take Bill out of the union but you can't take the union out of Bill!!

Yes but when you win over 50% in the house of reps, it is a implicit mandate for all policies put to the people, and the senate must yield....
"Why didn't Gillard call for a DD when the result was a hung parliament ?".. Unlike Abbott, she didn't go out on limb and say "no deals with minor party's".... Flip flop......

Barley your words parallel TA’s whole deal, deny, dismiss and evade or just flat out lie. Your diatribe is as close as it gets to a fart in a bottle.

Unemployment rate hits 6.4%... Highest since 2002.... Higher than any stage during the previous labor government......
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-08-07/unemployment-data-abs-july/5654926
Ohh... Let me guess..... Labor's fault.....
Name one job making policy in the budget, or since Abbott was elected...... One decent job making policy...... Good employment fixes everything... Not cuts cuts cuts..... Too many cuts causes recession.......

Joe Hockey recently stated that there is no alternative source of revenue to fix the budget other then punishing the poor?
Well crossbench Senator John Madigan has come up with one; end negative gearing which he described as the "elephant in the room".

Senator Madigan says the current system is hard to justify.
"Why should a person, why should people who have not got a home or who are struggling to buy their first home, subsidise those with five homes? Five properties?" he said.

http://mobile.abc.net.au/news/2014-08-07/senator-john-madigan-says-budge...

Even the most right of right wingers, Andrew Bolt, today attacks this laughable government;

"Liberal blame game: colleagues blame Brandis; Hockey blames everyone else"
"Odd that so many Liberals go on the record to attack Brandis"
"Meanwhile, Joe Hockey blames everyone else for the failure to sell his Budget"
"This is starting to look shambolic."

"SHAMBOLIC"...... From Andrew freekn Bolt!!!!!!!!
And as I said yesterday to barley... When the libs fuck up, it's always "someone elses fault", that they eat their own (which they are now starting to do).... And when even Bolt writes about the Liberal "blame game", well, checkmate.......

HHHmmm, the Maori is coming out of me, slow roasted LNP in a pit of fire heated river stones. Or you can let them eat themselves. Either way it still makes my mouth water….

Sheepy Abbott holds over 50% of seats in the HoRp.in fact he has nearly double labors number.
Name one decent employment policy, I'll give ya 2.build the infrastructure and end the carbon tax.
Hockey has done a fucked job at selling the budget.I think he should give up and just let everyone deal with it. The only ones going to bang on about it is Shorten & co. and if you bang on about it for too long no-one ends up giving a fuck.plus it shows you have no other ideas.
One good thing that's coming along is the legalization of pot.can't wait for that shit to happen! Anyway its been good lads.I'm a bit bored of this now peace out!yew

Barley, You won't be able to help yourself to check in ;) Now, mate, You can put a turd on the freshest of yummiest bread..... But it's still a shit sandwich.... Andrew Bolt says they are shambolic..... Head of Human rites conservative Tim Wilson says coalition plan to trawl you computer will have a "chilling effect" on free speech..... http://www.sbs.com.au/news/article/2014/08/07/freedom-commissioner-lashe...
But barley sticks fat..... Good onya, bro.... Rusted on..... I respect that...

As for your 2 "policies"...... 6.4%, mate........Highest since 02.... No new jobs from scrapping the carbon tax (btw, I agree re' carbon tax - stupid idea)........ But no new jobs nonetheless..... And infrastructure? Hmmmm. When does that start?... And how is it funded? Oh that's right..... His new Fuel Tax!!!! But wait!!! Didn't he say no new taxes???? Hang on!!!! This wonderful new tax that he said he wouldn't bring in.... He reckons it's gonna act like a carbon tax.............................. :/ .......................
http://www.news.com.au/finance/economy/tony-abbott-admits-fuel-tax-will-...

Yeah, peace be with you too, barley..... And don't hold your breath on the feds legalising buds... State issue, mate..... Cheers, ya rascal ;)

I would like one of these Liberal voting types to explain why they burned Gillard at the stake for breaking one promise and yet this incompetent b-grade actor Tony Abbott can do a Jekyll and Hyde lying his way into the top job breaking dozens of iron clad promises in his quest to make the obscenely wealthy richer and the peasants poorer and yet that's O.K. and he is doing a good job. I noticed barley was happy that his mob have abandoned the manufacturing industry and couldn't give a fuck about thousands of hard working blokes losing their jobs, this is a typical selfish, greedy conservative voter
trait. Its un-Australian and a tad rich coming from a farmer, lets face it they do fuck all and get subsidies and handouts if they have a few bad years in a row even though they are sitting on multi million dollar spreads. The age of entitlement is over, unless of course you're a politician or a farmer or filthy rich.

Very true old, I see it here on the north coast with sugar cane, always cryin poor but always driven new landcruisers

Sheepdog wrote:

Yesterday, Abbott on the Abc with Michael Brissenden described "civil liberties, privacy, and human rites" as an "honourable STRAND of thinking"....... Strand - A single filament.... A wisp or tress of hair.... A shoreline to an ocean..................

Yes he does murder the English language. For someone who is a Rhodes Scholar he mangles sentences. Extremely poor public speaker with zero charisma. Interesting thought is that people who are great at debaters are really just negative speakers (thinkers?). Wasn't Abbott a champion debater?

Memla, to describe civil liberties, privacy, and human rites as a "strand" is very worrying..... I think he deliberately used that word... " A strand of hair" is a very small thing indeed....

The stench of Abbott's daughters $60,000 scholarship grows stronger....... https://newmatilda.com/2014/08/08/abbott-named-lawsuit-whitehouse-scandal’s-sensational-new-twist

Mh17 didn't boost the polls..... Milking middle east photos re' meta data didn't boost the polls.... Let's join Obama in Iraq then, shall we (thinks Abbott).... Are Australians that wishy washy? As the blind man says,"we'll see".....

What kind of an Australia do you imagine it would be if the world didn't believe that the USA would stand behind us in times of need Sheepy ? And why would they help us if we never helped them ?

Blowin wrote:

What kind of an Australia do you imagine it would be if the world didn't believe that the USA would stand behind us in times of need Sheepy ? And why would they help us if we never helped them ?

Well lets look at it this way, the US needs Australia / Australia helps the US 24/7...without Pine Gap and Jindalee there would be no US "first sight" operations at all.

It's the US that owe us the debt, not the other way round.

Tripper, that's assuming the debt isn't paid everyday that some unfriendly bully nation doesn't take what it wants from us.

What do you think prevents our nation from being forcibly robbed of it's every resource ? Is it our remoteness ? Or is it because we live in a modern age whereby all sovereign rights are obliged out of a unifying notion of global respect for fellow man ?

What would you do if you were our Prime Minister, with a violent, ambitious nation state forming with the stated aim of destruction of all enemies ( that's us by the way ) and an enormous neighbour directly to our North that only narrowly failed to see the election of a president sympathetic to the ideologies of the newly formed state ?

Would you be tarnishing the goodwill of our strongest allies ?

TGF .
Your right about PineGap , and add Exmouth to that .
But just like The Phillipines is probably owed by the US .
Instead the only thing PI gets from that deal is a poor copy of their political system .
Aust. Owe part of its freedom to the US , there's a massive chance we would never have lost ground in WWII . But without by chance that the US were embroiled in the Pacific conflict , then we may have fought hand to hand on our shores .
Anyway we really are their LAP dog , it's not our fault . We born to do it , coming out from a tight reign held by colonialism . We just switched masters ! Mind you it did help that we have always had the biggest , strongest masters . Maybe Paul Keating saw our next master in China .... Que the Asian century !

Blowin.... We helped the USA in Korea.... Hundreds of Aussies dead, thousands maimed..... We helped the USA in that disgraceful Vietnam war.... Hundreds of Aussies dead, thousands maimed.... More dead at home from suicide and poisons from Vietnam..... We helped the USA in GWB's Iraq con job..... We are helping the USA in Afghanistan....... More Aussies dead.........
So, are we any safer from all of that? Are we safer than NZ? Have we paid back in blood our debt to the USA from WW2? Or do we owe them forever? ever....ever...ever....ever......
BTW.... Blowin.... Southey........How's your metadata going? Still don't believe Abbott is milking it?

Floyd.... sing along if you like; "Oil makes the world go round and round... Round and round... Round and round..... "
Note some of the incredible atrocities that have happened in Zimbabwe (Mugabe)... Oops!!!!! No oil there.... Who gives a rats tosser...... Rwanda..... Nope.... No oil there either.......

"Oil makes the world go round and round... Round and round... Round and round..... "

Jeez Sheepy, I think you've been living in a little mono culture microclimate for too long , watching SBS and believing that there is no evil men in the world , only those poor oppressed people that have been pushed too far by Whitey and the US of A.

Remember a little thing called World War 2 ? An unprovoked act of aggression by Germany and Japan , an ambitious attempt to further their nations land holdings and resources ?

Do you think the days of nations attacking nations are behind us ? Like you said , the US attacked several countries for oil. Why ? To maintain power and dominance.

If the US was not powerful or dominant then it would be them , us and NZ getting attacked.
NZ and Australia are bound to the US by the ANZUS treaty, that is the reason , along with a lack of resources, why NZ is safe. Not because they are such nice. , inoffensive people.

Pine Gap and Exmouth ? Who gives a fuck ? Such a small price to pay and like Sheepy is always saying, a much needed injection of commerce into small local economies.

You've named several conflicts that we have been in , have you ever considered the conflicts that have been avoided by our alliance with the US ? Maybe brush up a bit on Indonesian history fellas and learn a bit about East Timor and West Papua before you start preaching that our alliance with our cousins in the US is a waste of time.

Of course I also believe that we are led on merry shitfights regularly through our alliance. Shitfights that have had massive human, social and financial tolls . Like you I think the US is led by self serving idiots more often than not but what would you have us do ?

And if you think our debt to the US regarding WW2 has been paid then please brush up on the history of that little episode also. You think the Blackfellas have it bad now. You can pretty much guarantee they would have been completely exterminated and we would have been enslaved without US involvement . Happy Days!

But if you're feeling ungrateful enough about sitting comfortably in you living room in total safety then by all means whinge your heart out. But don't forget that you can't use any oil based products - though that is yet another reason to avoid synthetic clothing so it's not all bad.

PS

If you're wondering what the Philippines got out of their association with the US , the answer is the same as Australia - protection. Take a look at what the Chinese are up to in the South China Sea now that the US has relocated from several key ports. The Philipenoes were keen for the US to leave and as soon as they did the Philipenoes were begging them to return because of China's newfound aggression. Perhaps a little parallel and insight into the Australia / US experience ?

Jesus, blowin, have you been to the barley school of pigeon holing???? SBS? Wouldn't watch that crap if you paid me.....
Now, if I'm living in a monoculture, I think you have eaten too much soylent green, and are on the verge of delusional paranoia. Glued to bad news.... A murdock minion.... A newscorp smiling face band around your arm, a flag in your hand, and perverse subliminal mindset for more bad news to happen ;)
Ok, enough satire....
Blowin, you didn't answer anything I put to you.
A - Is Abbott milking the photos to take away your privacy
B - Is Abbott merely offering help because his government has had the worse week I have ever seen any government have.
C Has Abbott milked the mh17 tragedy as far as he possibly can
And my point about the oil was to floyd, not you... He said " the US and the west should stay out of it no matter how nasty it gets"............... I was simply (with a bit of humour) pointing out that the west will not stay out of it, because of oil....... That's all.... Didn't say whether that is a good thing or bad thing... I was just pointing out that "evil men" are doing "evil deeds" in other areas of the world.... But you don't seem to care about them unless there is a dollar attached, blowin.... And that, buddy, is why some folk hate the west.... Hypocrisy........
WW2 - I think you need to brush up not only only on ww2 history, but empirical history as well................. Empire over reach, then shrink.... a bit like the "big bang universe theory" .... Expand, then as supply line become too hard to maintain, and as local tribes and folk resist, they contract..... It has happened for as long as time itself...... Greece, the Romans..... Ottomans..... Back when bows and arrows were high tech' it took alot longer... But with modern tech' , contraction is sped up......Germany was beaten after the ill fated winter raid on Russia in 1941/42.... From there it was all downhill... Sure, America's merchant supply helped Britain, but Hitlers opening up of more than one front doomed him... Wothout America's help, The German war may have been longer, but Germany was still fucked. Stalin had them by the balls...... Why do i bring this up? Because the UK would've redirected troops to the Asian conflict, not only to help us but retake Singapore...
By 1943 Japan had so many fronts.... They couldn't even properly supply their troops at Kododa, as the Australians ropes a dope by sucking them further away from their supply lines.... Do you think the whole of China, our grandparents, New Guinea, Malaysia, Indo', etc etc woudn't have bunkered down and fought like banshees?.... Do you think he USA would not have defended itself anyway, apart fro us?
Get a grip, blowin....
Because of fear peddlers like yourself, we wont be able to shit without big brother knowing what it smelt like.
I'll repeat Hitlers words... " “The best way to take control over a people and control them utterly is to take a little of their freedom at a time, to erode rights by a thousand tiny and almost imperceptible reductions. In this way, the people will not see those rights and freedoms being removed until past the point at which these changes cannot be reversed.”
You are aiding and abetting.....

have just bought my first piece of property. Once i have built my house i will have recieved over 19 k in government grants. Got a call the other day from sarina russo indicating i am eligible for a government funded small business management diploma with 12 months of business mentoring. This qualification is normally in excess of 1000 dollars.

Throughout my apprenticeship i recieved over 6000 dollars in government grants to help me purchase tools required for my trade.

I am not from a rich family nor is my current wage anything that i would consider more then what my skills are worth.

I am not of aboriginal descent nor am i from any sort of underprivileged upbringing. these grants and incentives are available to anyone and everyone who actually want to make use of them.

I feel some of us need to realise how many oppurtunitys there actually are in this country if you want to work hard.

There have been grants i haven't been eligible for because my parents ( who i wasnt even living with at the time) earned too much. And believe me they weren't earning more then the average aussies they owned no investments and where both working full time jobs so they could provide us kids with a good education.

I've had oppurtunitys placed in front of me my entire life, many which i havent taken and i cant name one other place in the world that this would have been the case. Im sure as hell not going to complain about having to pay $7 to see the doctor and i sure as hell wont be complaining about the 20k im going to save to move into my first house.

Sheepy, we both know that Abbot is a top shelf piece of shit. He is taking the whole politician removed from reality thing to the next level and the MH17 deal was a master stroke of grandstanding by a 2 dimensional fuckstick in full plumage .

No I don't think he is agreeing to help the US due to his political requirements. Of course he will exploit it to his advantage , but I think that Australia would have assisted anyway due to our alliance with the US.
At the moment we are only supplying aid to people in need. At the moment, that is. But I can't see how you can really complain about us helping people faced with possible genocide . I see your point about us not helping others also, but really is this about helping people or your political views ?

As for the Metadata grab... For sure he is milking it but why are you surprised or shocked ? He is an unapologetic career politician first and foremost and the Prime Minister this country needs a distant second. I'm sure Murdoch and Abbot et al have a master plan to enslave us by increments but I'm not too worried about it. This ain't Germany. Australians have an inbuilt distrust of Authority that will see our potential slave masters be forced to fight for it every step of the way and still come out with shit on their faces.

The Metadata itself ? Who gives a fuck ? Let ASIO see how many times I've visited Redtube or how many penis pumps I've ordered from Europe ( It's not my bag , Baby ! ). I be
I believe that the risk is outweighed by the benefits of enhanced national security. I believe that the security risk posed by Jihadists is real.

Remember the Bali Bombings ? I used to drink at the Sari Club. It was a real place that was really blown up with many people like ourselves in it. Some naughty people really to want to commit the same atrocities in Australia. More power to the thin blue line between us and them I say.

And no, I didn't gain this opinion through Murdochs influence. I'll admit I have read his papers , but I find them comical in they're grasping obviousness. I came to my opinions through my own thought processes and experiences thanks very much.

Fear Peddling ? I still state that we live in the best country in the world by virtually any measure but that maybe we should be vigilant about people trying to wreck our little party. I'm not worried about that either knowing that there are committed professionals looking after my security whilst I stare at the blue sky from atop my surfboard out in the lineup. Doesn't get better than that mate.

Rees0 - great call mate, glad to see your reaping the benefits .

Middle class welfare...... All well and good for you to have your hand out for freebies, rees0.... Of course you wouldn't complain about a $7 fee when you've received 25k in free cash.... 25000/7 = 3571 visits to the doctor hehehehe......
Because of the 1st home owner grants ( which you gleefully grab), we now have a housing bubble, and over inflated house prices.... I shouldn't complain.. I own my house outright, and did it the old fashioned hard way......
But reeso, here's a graph for you. Look closely around the year 2000 ...... When Howard brought in the gst, then started handing out free cash for houses, look at what happened to house prices......If the home owner grants weren't brought in, You only be looking a 300k for a 450k house right now.... You might've gotten a free 19k, but you now owe an extra 131k.......

Thanks Reeso for remind erring everyone of the current situation .
Be wary though many here may be jealous of your generation .
Like you ( a decade or so ago ) I was one of the first home owners grant recipients .
Initially a tradesman , I didn't get nothing like the incentives that some of the apprentices I've employed received . I'm still uncertain of my position on many of these grants like tool subsidies and the like . One thing I think never really worked , was people were never tested to see if they were going to waste their time in some apprenticeships . I mean builders and electrical training require a decent level of mathematics and even physics .
I do definitely believe that some guys these days are lazy , and it shows especially when people are getting payed ( far more generously than past trainees , to actually show up to trade school by their employer and still have the Gaul to miss classes , run late and often slack off and leave multiple sections incomplete .

Sheepo , I'm not taking a stance on either side of this war debate .
Blowin , I was merely pointing out that Australia is stuck in this follow the leader trend . And maybe it make take a war in our shores to see us finally grow from this immature behavior . I hope this never comes to fruition and my family has to give more blood , sweat and tears than it already has in it's 200 yr history on this wide brown land . But many would be surprised , numbers mean nothing in modern warfare . It's all about dollars , just look at who is on the front foot in the Middle East . ( totally surrounded , but with deep pockets from world wide financial and political support from expats and relatives ), I'm just glad India is more generally on the side pacifism . Imagine their global reach ....

Southey and blowin.... The "war debate" is secondary.... I was referring to our chat in another thread, where you both doubted my opinion on the Coalitions over reach and propaganda style usage of beheading photos for new privacy restrictions...... All political commentators, even some conservatives, are starting to see that it is a tactic....

I wasn't in disagreeance with your position on the coalitions tactics . I just re-interated that when I saw the photo first , it was via a source that could not be involved with Government spin . ( ie it was already well and truly in the public realm . What they decided to do after that was irrelevant as the media would of ran it anyway .... Populists followed suit .

Interesting use of irony by the Libs. If this redirect is legitimately registered by the LNP I'm not sure how they think this negates the obvious lies that have been told...seems almost like a proud owner.

abbottlies.com.au

http://www.9news.com.au/national/2014/08/10/09/12/liberal-party-registers-domain-name-abbott-lies-in-digital-campaign-against-labor

Sheepdog wrote:

Memla, to describe civil liberties, privacy, and human rites as a "strand" is very worrying..... I think he deliberately used that word... " A strand of hair" is a very small thing indeed....

I kind of wish you were right Sheepy but I have a feeling he is just dull. There was an article in the Age on the weekend which posed the question is Abbott our answer to Jaydubya and then went through a long list of gaffs. He is a serial offender.

Memla, actions speak louder than words.... His actions show his contempt for privacy.....

And for intelligence. Remember we are a Team now - Team Australia.

Sheepdog wrote:

Middle class welfare...... All well and good for you to have your hand out for freebies, rees0.... Of course you wouldn't complain about a $7 fee when you've received 25k in free cash.... 25000/7 = 3571 visits to the doctor hehehehe......
Because of the 1st home owner grants ( which you gleefully grab), we now have a housing bubble, and over inflated house prices.... I shouldn't complain.. I own my house outright, and did it the old fashioned hard way......
But reeso, here's a graph for you. Look closely around the year 2000 ...... When Howard brought in the gst, then started handing out free cash for houses, look at what happened to house prices......If the home owner grants weren't brought in, You only be looking a 300k for a 450k house right now.... You might've gotten a free 19k, but you now owe an extra 131k.......

What caveats would you add for your graph in terms of economy growth, population growth, city growth & urban sprawl? Need to solidify your argument that the housing price spike is synchronous with the handing out of Govt money.

Yocal.. No "caveats" needed.... Just look at the graph, and read this...
" In Australia, the first home owner's grant is considered one of the biggest failures of government policy in the past 50 years, as many feel that the extra cash simply encouraged owners to bump up the selling price, making it harder for the young and those on lower incomes to get a foot in the housing market"
- Full article here - http://www.bluewealth.com.au/the_research_blog/the_history_of_the_first_...

"House price spike linked to first home owners' grant"
Here - http://www.smh.com.au/business/property/house-price-spike-linked-to-firs...

Sheepdog i would be inclined to agree with you in regards to g.s.t but the housing price bubble your referring to was spread across the globe.

http://www.wealthfoundations.com.au/blog/wp-content/uploads/2012/08/Unti...

The first home owners grant in qld is now only available for building new. I remember that wasn't always the case however i would think that the percentage of first home buyers eligible for the grant would have been so small as to not yrigger a reaction as large as what was experienced from 2003 onwards.

The real reasons i don't know and im sure theres alot of people out there with alot more knowledge then me that have no clue either.

The people most inclined to take advantage of the grant would in my eyes be the seller of said property (although grant is no longer available to established homes in qld) and the builder. The builder is in the position of most power as most of these grants never actually end up in your hands but the banks who forward the cheques to the builder at various stages in construction.

However im young, a first home owner and the 15 grand is one of the main reasons me and my partner can actually afford to get our own house so i wouldn't consider the first home owners grant to be a failure but actually a success because its doing exactly what its intended too. Help first home owners get into the market whilst stimulating an ailing construction industry.

And getting the 15 + interest back with the G.S.T ;)

Yeah, there were a couple of other factors, reeso, re USA etc..... Derivative trading, Wall st, fake "boom" thanks to traders trading bullshit..... But did you see the "bust" in the USA? The aftermath post 2007?
Thankfully, our banking system saved us....
Check this out - http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-06-12/australia-has-third-highest-house-...

Interesting that the top 3, Australia included, all have some form of government grant/tax credit/discounted loans....
http://actionplan.gc.ca/en/initiative/first-time-home-buyers-tax-credit
http://www.logement.irisnet.be/primes-et-aides/prets-fonds-du-logement

sorry...the home owners grant has very little to do with inflated house prices.

its in part due to a combination of undersupply of land release by the government coupled with the high cost of building, but more than anything else due to the extraordinarily stable and low interest rates coupled with Howards continual income tax cuts through his leadership giving people more spending money ...the 80's and early 90's saw real ups and down in rates, then they got low around 96/1997 and then kept dropping. we had a small peak around the GFC but that passed quick as the U.S went into overdrive stimulation and kept their rates at 0% for ages.

buyers are extremely confident in this type of market and banks all too willing to loan out massive bucks.

having said that...the first home owners grant should be scrapped...its just political crap. apart from that its a fact that trading homes doesn't really stimulate the economy much, it keeps a glorified admin junky estate agents in a job and gives the govt some revenue in taxes but there is little real value to jobs - building house on the other-hand does ! what needs to happen is for the government to commit to long term infrastructure plans, release more land further outskirts, build more train lines and then provide more compensation to home builders ... not buyers.

Oh, ok, happy... So senior economist Dr Andrew Wilson is wrong.... Property investor groups like Blue wealth are wrong.... One of Australia's leading economists, Saul Eslake is wrong - http://www.theaustralian.com.au/business/property/firsthome-grants-keep-... ... the graph is a coincidence, and Owners/real estate agents never boosted house prices to get a slice of grant pie???? Please...

Undersupply of land and housing shortage was/ is a furphy, invented by the REIA, to boost commision....
There is no shortage of houses for sale....... It's just they are grossly overpriced.... Thanks to ridiculous policy decisions by Howard, purely as offset for the gst....

Saul is not wrong...there is some correlation of course but its largely influenced by other factors he not described in his blurb (i didn't have access to the whole article). i did say that land release was only partly to blame and I certainly do not believe this is the main cause BUT it is certainly one of the things the government can actively control & do something about- unlike real interest rates which are governed by the RBA monetary policy - of which house prices doesn't feature a mention much.

a 7k grant - these days doesn't mean much by itself...howard actually had it at 14k back in 2001 & so its far less these days comparatively speaking with prices. so why is property still going gangbusters?...if you couple low interest rates with the banks stupid lending to equity regime these days and their very low deposit requirements, then a small bank balance can suddenly buy a large amount of property. the real problem is not really the grant...but how much it allows you to borrow under the current rules of the banks. its ludicrous. not to mention mummy and daddy helping their kids get ahead with a few free dollars also, and the Chinese economy looking for savehaven dollars in our property. point im making is that there are so many push factors supporting prices to go up. provided interest rates stay low there are economists out there that think that house prices still have a way to go - ouch.

howard could afford the grant as he reigned during a very prosperous period & had dollars to spare...governments now cant afford it. I still say that it doesn't really generate all that much value..a home buyer (not builder) really isn't doing shit for the economy...its pushing money around and keeping real estate wankers employed. its should be scrapped...that much Sheepdog I agree with you.

"so why is property still going gangbusters?" It'd be a brave politician to deliberately pop the bubble.... And the graph has flatlined...... Note graph in 2008/09 - grant boosted to 21k when market was taking hit from world events.... Direct correlation...... 21k = house price spike..... Note winding back of home owners grant 2010 onwards...... price falls....
Sure, many other factors to this, Happyas, but like a bushfire, with wind, hot temps, heaps of fuel, it was still the match that started it.........

"When the top twenty members of the landed gentry in federal parliament own 191 properties, it is difficult to believe that politicians will address the real causes of housing unaffordability". Quote from IndependentAustralia article-Aussie politicians and their $300 million property portfolio.

http://www.independentaustralia.net/politics/politics-display/aussie-pol...

Yep, yorko... And the next logical "neoconical ideological" step would be to include one's over inflated house as an asset, therefore cutting millions of seniors off the pension....... Did they ask for their humble family home of 50 years to become a $700 000 asset? I mean, if you sell it, you still have to live somewhere......... It's their home......

I can just imagine all the pensioners out there right now whinging that they have got a $700000 asset they can sell and downsize if they want , leaving hundreds of thousands of dollars in the bank for them.....poor buggers.

" Did they ask for their home of 50 years to become a $700000 asset ?" Gold. I imagine they would have bought several of them if they had known that was going to be the case.

It could work like a reverse mortgage and asset rich pensioners continue to receive their pension and the money recouped from their estate when they die(or sell)?
This would screw the pensioners' offspring out of some of their inheritence(myself included) but why should we get a free ride off our parents estate at the expense of poor Australians getting the bare minimum to survive?
There's a hugely growing demographic of elderly who have a right to live in their own homes. But the asset levels before they start to lose the pensions are very generous. Many younger Australians can't afford to put a roof over their heads and its gonna get worse if Abbott has his way. Something's gotta give?