Turnbull rolls over "again" to the ultra right

So because I have a differing political point of view to the raving lefties on this thread im a paid troll for the Liberal Party ,and I mustn't be a surfer either?. Are Floyd and Yorksurfer paid trolls for the Labor Party ?Can you see how ridiculous your thinking is? Some of you blokes must live a pretty insular sought of life , you need to get out more.
Now Abbots here for at least another 2 years , does anyone seriously believe that Dolly is going to lead the Labor Party to the next election to conquer the great Abbot beast? It's a two horse race you know , Abbots one , who's the other? If they stick with Shorten the Labor Party have no chance.

Thanks for not pointing the finger at me, Grocer..... As I said, Yorko "accused" you of being one of the thousands of paid trolls..... But at least Yorko has the courage to admit Labor Party membership.....
I note you didn't deny any affiliation with the coalition...
So I'll respectfully ask; Are you in any way affiliated with any political party?

Also, you write " Now Abbots here for at least another 2 years"........ Most crystal balls are made in chinese factories these days, grocer..... No quality control....... In these poll driven times, if Abbott doesn't lift his game in the next 12 months, he's toast....

You also write "If they stick with Shorten the Labor Party have no chance"...
People said the same thing about Abbott..... Opposition's never win elections..... Government's lose elections...... But Shorten does have his work cut out...... I'm more of an Albanese/Burke man myself..

Does it really take courage to admit membership to a political party? I wouldn't have thought so .
Im not affiliated with any political party but I detest the lying criminals that inhabit the Labor Party and how they have fucked over this country. Dolly is just another in a long line of scum that seems to rise to the top of the Labor movement. Yorksurfer and Floyd obviously see it differently and I guess that's what's fascinating about politics.
Sure the Liberal party leave a lot to be desired and your right ,Abbot could be shafted , but at the end of the day it's a two horse race and I think Shortens a bit on the nose and will suffer the same demise he dished out to Rudd and Gillard .
Albosleazy might fit the Labor role model, keep the tradition going. Whatdayareckon Yorksurfer any inside info? They better get a move on, only two years to go!

Dolly is his nick name Floyd, you of all people should know that. Very fitting don't you think?

As for corruption in the Liberal party , it's chicken feed to what the criminals in the Labor movement have done. You do realise it was perfectly legal to accept political donations from developers before 2009.
Correct me if im wrong but I don't think any Liberal MPs took money for personal gain.
Most people in NSW know this and that's why The state Libs are streets ahead in the latest polls . Obied and all the other Labor crims are still in people's memory Floyd.

"Dolly"..... "Absosleazy"........ Nice.... right out of the Alan Jones book of conservative abuse.....
Using that tactic, I could go on about Peter "slip it in to an intern" Slipper, Ot Troy "chair sniffer" Buswell, Or the whole corrupt "do as we say not as we do" NSW Liberal hypocrites, or Cory "if gays marry we'll be screwing animals next" Bernadi, Or Senator "She's a barren woman" heffernan, or Senator Eric "the pill causes breast cancer" Abtetz......

As for your "dolly" comment...... If the police had evidence, like they did against Thompson, Slipper etc, they'd pursue....
I think your tactic of trying to make mud stick is pretty low brow, Grocer, no matter how inept Shorten may be.......
Stick to facts, man...... Not hyperbole...... You'll gain at least my respect that way, for whatever that is worth (nothing to a troll, but something to a fellow concerned voter)......

grocer wrote:

Correct me if im wrong but I don't think any Liberal MPs took money for personal gain. .

From the SMH: "Suspended Liberal MP Andrew Cornwell has admitted to a corruption inquiry that he pocketed a $10,000 "bribe" from one property developer and used it to pay his tax."

I'm more of an Albo fan myself grocer. To me Shorten is a catholic private school twat like Abbott. They are both cut from the same cloth.
The difference is Shorten leads a party which has always supported every day Australians with policies such as universal health care, support for the disadvantaged and a decent education for all as opposed to Abbott who is nothing but a puppet for big corporations and the rich.
Anyone with half a brain can see that.

If you wanted to rag out on Shorten about stabbing two Labor PM's in the back I'd agree with you. He represents everything that was wrong with Labor during the last term of government.

However your obsession with a young Shorten's sex life is quite disgusting. What kind of precedent is this setting that every politician is going to have his/her teenage years scrutinised and any former girlfriend or boyfriend able to make money by making accusations then selling their story to the media?
Careful what you wish for grocer because as the ICAC corruption enquiries have shown this kind of stuff can tar both sides?

Come on sheepdog , it's just a bit of the banter you you precious little sook. You seem to be rather offended by it all . You act like your affiliated with the Labor Party. Lighten up mate.
Wasn't that 10 grand payment for a painting? A little over priced no doubt but a payment just the same. I might be wrong but I think NSW is the only state where it's illegal to take donations from developers.
Like I said its a two horse race and whether you die hard Labor stooges like it or not, Bills on the nose and won't make it to the next election. That's the way politics works Yorksurfer Its a tough game, Look how ruthless Dolly has been to get where he is.
Albo is a good choice , sure to keep Labor standards high.

There's rumours the Libs are trying to get Costello back into Federal politics? That's how much confidence they have in Abbott!

haha!! That would be hilarious if it happens! Not surprised though, this chump isn't much for policy or people.

Last Week Tonight on Tony Abbot -

Apologies if that has already been posted on this thread. Definitely worth a watch.

" You act like your affiliated with the Labor Party. Lighten up mate."
Would someone affiliated write this, grocer? -

Abbott in wonderland thread, 31/3 - " But Rudd/Gillard????"....." but tell me , what areas of social ideology did they achieve? Zilch.... Zero.... Just matched the coalition's nastiness by sending boat people as to New Guinea, putting single mums on the dole, and not giving gays the rite to marry...."......... "I'm not going to call Abbott a "kook".... I didn't call Gillard a "witch". But I am going hold our politicians accountable for their policy decisions.".............. "The name calling, the accusations, the pidgeon holing.... This is what both parties want...... Whilst the mud is being flung, bad policy goes unnoticed....."

or this - Abbott thread 11/4 - "Btw, Yorkes, it was Labor who first brought this law in..... 2012 Public Service Commission guidelines...... But of course the coalition are running with it...... They are both as bad as eachother, both using the same tactic......" ........."Yorkes.. I fully agree with you... It's just i hold both sides accountable..."

Or this, 1/6 -"Anyone who thinks the art of wedge politics, class warfare, deception, smokescreens and mirrors, ideology masked as "policy", and religious involvement are purely the domain of "the right" are kidding themselves..... "

I could keep pasting.... But hey.....
Grocer, you and the missing in action nick3 should just continue to be troglodytes....... Keep pigeonholing people, keep the low brow stuff flowing.... It's the easy option... ;)

Fairdinkum Sheepdog, you certainly have proven your neutrality with that catalogue of your comments . You must be bored shitless.
Peter Costello would be a fantastic replacement to Abbot. Fuck , if only it were true. Stop teasing me Yorksurfer

Never thought I'd agree with you grocer, but I too like Costello. He is a moderate Liberal as opposed to the extreme Right Wing TeaParty nutjobs controlling the Liberal Party at the moment.

On a separate subject I found this comment on Australia's debt reduction strategy posted on the Drum website today. It's the best explanation I have read on this subject. Worth re-posting........

25 Aug 2014 2:00:02pm
Frog,

Peak debt is a function of two things: the size of the initial debt, and how long it takes before it begins to fall.

The major determining factor in how long it takes for a debt to peak and begin to decline is the revenue available to the government to pay off the principal and interest at regular intervals. If revenue is high, the government will have more at its disposal to invest in debt reduction. If revenue is low, the government will have less to invest in debt reduction. And government revenue is a function of economic activity. The higher the economic activity, the higher the government's revenue and the faster it can pay off debt.

Notice how I haven't mentioned expenditure? That's because, on this side of the equation, it is irrelevant. The only important thing is to ensure that economic activity remains at high enough levels to underwrite the debt repayment strategy of the government.

A few years back, the Australian economy faced its biggest challenge since the 1930's, which was the last time that neo-liberalism drove the world economy into depression. Mr Swan responded with a stimulus package that absorbed almost all of the shock and left Australian businesses and households in a hugely advantageous position compared to the rest of the world. This was reflected in continued high levels of economic activity and ensured that every dollar spent on the stimulus came back to the government at least twice. That's right, for every dollar spent on the Stimulus, the government has since received at least two dollars that it would not otherwise have received.

Mr Hockey's reversal of fiscal policy from counter-cyclical to pro-cyclical will, according to the "rules" programmed into the "model engine" (which are basically the widely accepted "rules" that govern how an economy works) considerably reduce economic activity and with it, government revenue. This is precisely the hole that the Greeks dug themselves into. If you aren't generating enough revenue to service your debts, your debt with continue to increase.

Get it now? You have to spend a bit to make a lot. If you scrimp a bit, you end up paying heaps more. Just ask the Greeks. They can tell you all about how much good "austerity" does.

grocer wrote:

Fairdinkum Sheepdog, you certainly have proven your neutrality with that catalogue of your comments . You must be bored shitless.
Peter Costello would be a fantastic replacement to Abbot. Fuck , if only it were true. Stop teasing me Yorksurfer

Nah.... Took 4 minutes of scroll cut and paste... Might've taken you longer.......
I am bored with your lack of intelligence, though....

Yorko...... Costello was a hack..... A champion of middle class welfare..... Pissed money up against the baby boomer reno'........

Ohhh, and he was a spoilt sook....... Gotta give Abbott, Hockey etc one thing - after they lost on 07, they hung in there..... But Costello? He walked like Cartman...... "I'm going home".......He wanted the PMship given to him on a platter....
And he was also gutless.... Didn't have the balls to stare down Howard on their 06 agreement..... So, in the washup, Costello had no balls, and didn't have the stomach to do the hard yards in opposition like Howard , or Abbott.....

Yeah Sheepy Costello was a populist with middle class welfare but I can forgive him for thinking the good times would last forever. Haven't we all been deceived into thinking like that at sometime or another in our lives?
In this post GFC, post mining boom period it's time to wind it all back though.

On the subject of mining revenue here's another really good post explaining how the mining tax would have worked.(pulled off The Drum website today)

The mining tax was designed to tax EXCESSIVE profit-taking by mining multinationals.
Now, you don't generally generate super-profits when you are contructing the thing that is going to generate the super profits. You have to wait until the thing is built before you can do this. The government always realised this.

There is a very good reason for structuring the tax in this way. Most of the benefits to Australia, of allowing multinational mining conglomerates access to OUR minerals comes to us during the CONSTRUICTION phase. This is really the only time when any of the money generated by mining actually stays in Australia. Once construction is over and extraction begins, all of the money flows straight into the hands of foreign shareholders and, as working mines employ only a negligible number of people, no economic advantage flows to local communities.

And this is what the mining tax was designed to tackle.

The most recent cycle of construction in Australian mining is almost over and, with it, the "boom" created by construction activity. As a result, revenues to government from the mining inductry will peter out and it will have to spend more to support communities devastated by the end of mining construction. But it is also when the "super-profits" will start to roll, and when the revenue really starts to flood into government coffers.

See how elegant a solution it really is? While mining is contributing to the economy (in the construction phase), it does not pay a super-profit tax. But, when it is extracting wealth from the economy and no longer contributing, it becomes liable to pay the super-profit tax.

The expected abolition of the mining tax was one of the changes to the inputs used by Treasury when preparing the MYEFO (along with serious reductions in government expenditure), and explains at least paritally the blowout in peak debt from $340 billion under Labor's policies to $670 billion under the Tories. All that extra revenue that Labor's policies would have brought into government coffers would have allowed the government to pay the debt off faster than if they tried to slash and burn as Hockey has done.

yorkessurfer wrote:

There's rumours the Libs are trying to get Costello back into Federal politics? That's how much confidence they have in Abbott!

sack Hockey and bring him in as Treasurer....lol

here's a look at how they'd balance the budget.

Our top tax bracket is 49 . 5 cents in the dollar. Eighth highest in the world.
Australia's economy didn't need stimulating . We were in the biggest mining boom Australia has ever seen. Government revenue was at record highs.the only one who benefited from the stimulus package was Harvey Norman selling plasma televisions .All that revenue and wealth wasted by the Labor Party , all we have to show for it is a 300 billion debt. Wayne Swan promised a surplus in every budget he delivered, Kevin Rudd called himself an economic conservative to get elected.
"Get it now ? You have to spend a bit to make a lot" Swan spent billions and we haven't made a cent from it , but we have 300 billion debt. Yes I get it , don't let the Labor Party anywhere near money.

just a point in correctness grocer.. while I agree that we have a high top tax bracket.. in fact Australia ranks rather low in total income tax takings compared with other developed countries. just pointing out that's all.

"Yeah Sheepy Costello was a populist with middle class welfare but I can forgive him for thinking the good times would last forever."
Sorry yorko... I can't agree with you on that one...... I can forgive a 21yo thinking that... But not a federal treasurer...... Mining boom mark1 had billions upon billions just falling into Australia 2001 - 2006..... All Costello did with that money was, as grocer said, allow wingnuts to buy plasma's with their baby bonus.... Some industrious young ladies were popping them out every year, to different dads..... So, baby bonus x 3, AND a single mum pension....... What was Costello's quote? Have one for yourself, and one for Australia?.....
And of course he suckered young folk in to an overinflated housing market with free cash for loans..... real estate agents said "yeah, I'll have a piece of that.....
So, after all those billions of chinese/Indian dollars that flooded in 01 -06 , the libs put aside a paltry 32 billion, and think we are fools? Well some of us are..... But the fact is, and history will show that the Howard years were squandered..... There was that much money coming in, Mickey fuckn mouse could've run the country......
As for Rudd/Gillard, I'll give them a pass for guaranteeing the banks during 07, and the first stimulus package that even Abbott on the ABC THIS WEEK said was fair.... But stimulus mk2 was a waste..... Stupidity......
Meanwhile, over in WA, the libs slide further into debt....... Which shows it aint just Labor who are useless - http://www.theaustralian.com.au/national-affairs/state-politics/western-...

grocer wrote:

All that revenue and wealth wasted by the Labor Party , all we have to show for it is a 300 billion debt.

Have you driven down the Pacific Highway in Nth NSW recently grocer?
Or in South Oz the South Road overpass extension and Northern Expressway?
Or the new Mornington Peninsula freeway from Melbourne whatever they call it?
Or any school in the country?
I could go on but you clearly have eyes that cannot see when it comes to anything Labor achieved in their time in office?

@sheepy that's a fair comment. Maybe Costello just wasn't a dislikable prick like Abbott is so I'm judging him less harshly. I also agree Labor could have pulled back on the stimulus earlier particularly the set top boxes which cost more than a new digital TV would have cost, but that's history.

I think overall the stimulus measures did more good then harm and we have plenty to show for it, including gifting the incoming Abbott government one of the strongest performing economies in the world.

"I think overall the stimulus measures did more good then harm and we have plenty to show for it, including gifting the incoming Abbott government one of the strongest performing economies in the world."
I do agree with that...... They just went a bit too far....... As you said, economy is ok.... Salamanca was packed on the weekend..... If Abbott keeps talking it down though, he may cause a recession..... He has to realize that he is not in opposition..... But talking up the economy, and promoting spending doesn't fit the mantra, or the ideology.......
I suppose he can just blame labor for that, too ( a forced recession via pessimistic harping that is...)......

Actually Sheepdog, the highest amount of revenue was collected under the Labor Parties Six year a in government and all we have to show for it is a 300 billion debt. Costello also turned a big deficite left by Keeating and another incompetent Labor government into 20 billion surplus . As a matter of fact I think every budget he delivered was a surplus. The Labor Party promised over 500 times that they would deliver a surplus , knowing how important it is to a strong economy. Yet they gave us a whopping 300 billion debt. You can talk shit all you like , it's not going to change the facts halfwit.

There will be nine books written by Labor figures since 2012~ all trying to rewrite history no doubt. Gillard and Swans will have the most amount of bullshit of coarse .
Paul Kelly also has a new book , Triumph and Demise . That's my pick to get a true account of those diabolical six years of waste and mismanagement.

A book written by Paul Kelly? Editor of the Australian? Haha that loss making Murdoch rag! Hardly objective?

Grocer, have you ever done any base cause analysis on why liberal create surplus and why labor create deficit?

Grocer, any government can have a garage sale ya dimwit... And no comment on Costello's middle class welfare? Let me guess... You sucked it up lol....

Rupert Murdoch - 83 years of age and still squabbling for power and a few extra dollars that he will never need.....what a dickhead.

Its not easy to stand back and not get emotional about whatever party you like or dislike. But how about give the Libs are go. We gave Labor a go and the majority said - no thanks not again. Lets give Libs a go. Remember that it was Labor that reduced tertiary funding so they are not squeaky clean in the so called 'socialist' policies. Also why can't I get a HECS or similar just because I want to go to TAFE ?

@tonybarber; 'we gave Labor a go'? My recollection of Labor's time is a bit different to yours. 'Ditch the Witch',ministers shown as NAZI's on front pages of Murdoch newspapers, 'Kick This Mob Out'.
Abbott opposed everything for political reasons. He and his rabid supporters in the media set the bar so low it's a bit rich to not expect it back in spades and social media is our shovel.

It's funny how simple governing appeared to Abbott from the opposition benches. A three word slogan or two and all the complex problems of the world could be solved.
I'm actually enjoying watching the coalitions budget self destructing due to their own hubris and inability to negotiate. They reap what they sow......
http://www.theshovel.com.au/2014/08/25/government-still-trying-to-sell-b...

Ot..... Just watched Keating at a book launch ,dumping (again) on bob hawke ! What a sad & bitter man

Yorksurfer, the majority spoke. Ok if you look at Murdoch then also look at Fairfax (smh). Remember Murdoch did support Labor - Its Time.
Rudd/Gillard did not do much. The paradox is that I have supported Labor but just couldn't do it this time. Williamson rort, Thompson ripoff was not on. They rip our workers off - simply. So let's give this mob a go. Granted the budget is tough and they will tone it down.

@tb; my brother in law couldn't bring himself to vote Labor either. He's in his 50's on the assembly line at Holden and said it was because of the carbon tax lie. I wonder what he thinks now after Hockey dared Holden to pack up and leave Australia in parliament and we know what happened next. Will he ever have a secure job at his age again? He can always work for the dole I guess?
It never ceases to amaze me how effective the media are at getting people to vote against their own interests.

http://www.smh.com.au/federal-politics/political-news/senator-ian-macdon...

What a great "team"....... Eating their own.... A great example set for "team australia".... lol

yorkessurfer wrote:

It never ceases to amaze me how effective the media are at getting people to vote against their own interests.

Chickens voting for KFC I believe it's called.

YS - my sympathy for your brother in law. But as you know it was Senator Button that started car industry shutdown because simply we could not compete with Korea et al. That is a long story and just shows that can make good cars but maybe it's our labour costs ??
Murdoch is not relevant. There are many other media forms to follow.
Not sure about Abbotts lies. I reckon we all know someone who's rorting the system. But the Libs have stuffed up selling the budget - too cocky.

Australians United For Better Government are holding marches across the country this weekend at these locations.......

Adelaide: Sunday 31st August 11:30am Victoria Square to Parliament House.

Brisbane: Sunday 31st August 11:00am Rally at Queens Park.

Hobart: Sunday 31st August 11:30am Princess Park, Battery Point march to Parliament House.

Melbourne: Sunday 31st August 1:00pm at State Library of Victoria.

Perth: Saturday 30th August 1:00pm at Russell Square Park.

Sydney: Sunday 31st August 1:00pm at Hyde Park.

Canberra: Sunday 31st August 12noon at Garema Place, Canberra City.

Central Coast: Saturday 30th August 10am Carawah Reserve, Central Coast Hwy for march to Gosford Waterfront.

Coffs Harbour: Sunday 31st August 11:00am Cnr Marina Drive& Jordan Esplanade , Jetty Foreshores.

Geelong: Saturday 30th August 12noon Rally at Johnstone Park.

Geraldton: Sunday 31st August 2:00pm Rally at Edith Cowan Square(opposite courthouse).

Newcastle: Sunday 31st August 10am Pacific Park.

Port Maquarie: Saturday August 30th 10:30am-2pm Westport Park.

Wollongong: Sunday August 31st 11:00am Thomas Dalton Park.

More info here; http://www.marchaustralia.com/

@tonybarber, not sure about Abbotts lies? Nothing personal but what planet are you from again?
There are only two types of Liberal voters, a.) Extremely wealthy and b.) extremely ignorant of the facts. I have a feeling you could be both.