Australia Uber Alles

Of course I feel compassion for this lady, especially since she has been personified.

But you tell me Sheepdog, what do we do for the 100,000,000 potential immigrants out there that all want the exact same outcome ?

Interesting.

Been getting any waves Sheepy ?

I hope you're planning on selling a shed load more pies to pay for all the new Australians Sheepy.

Blowin wrote:

I hope you're planning on selling a shed load more pies to pay for all the new Australians Sheepy.

Thats pretty good Blowin, well said again;)

Yeah Welly, Sheepy is to refugees what Blindboy is to climate change.

Big on rhetoric and short on personal effectiveness.

"Raising awareness " big time though.

I'd ask if you have a spare room Sheepdog , but no doubt your house is full of refugees running from the ongoing war in Vietnam or Bangladesh or Nigeria or Bhutan or etc etc.

Midget wrestlers 1 : Self Righteous non entities 0

Not to mention the irony of someone that obviously arrived by plane and overstaying their Visa being finally arrested....haven't you been baying for this blood for years Sheepy ?

Are you happy now ?

Best of 7 surely.........

gotta agree with blowin, as touching as her story is, you've gotta draw the line sonwhere, not to mention found not to be a legit. refugee, arrived by plane (i thought you guys had issues with that).

while i agree we bare some responsibility for the middle east mess, i don't see how Australia is complicit (i like that word) in the mess that is iran.

i think I know where you are sheepdog, should have been an alright winter me thinks, you're good with the cold for a Q lander...brrrrrr! is the word

Jeez Sheepdog, I don't care where others live ( although to be honest , I have a real problem with overpopulation ), but I don't particularly want to subsidise people's LIFESTYLE choices with my coin.

Yes, that was intentionally inflammatory... Just for laughs , only cause I know you're bent over your Commodore 64 in Bumfuck , SA hating life and trying to improve your lot by picking internet fights with loaded questions.....?

Fact is Sheepdawg, for all your blame mongering and finger pointing, you do NOTHING to improve the lot of any refugees or even people such as the unfortunate lady that arrived by plane and was proven to have no case for continued illegal existence in Australia.

Though I'm not saying that she should or should not be deported, I am saying that if we view every case such as hers without jurisprudence then Australia's population will be 100,000,000 strong in a few years.

Is that what you want Sheepy ?

What the fuck do you want ?

Besides not having to contribute in any meaningful way to the financial realities of immigrant resettlement that is...

Just reread your post and realised about your wife Sheepdog. Sorry about that, mate.

Apologies for the aggressiveness , got a bit of shit going down also.

Hope all comes good at your end.

.

yeh I get the kicking and screaming thing, does seem way too much...but you know how this shit works allow one person grace and everybody comes up with a convincing tale, to be honest they could have let her finish whatever she wss doing but really it would just prolong the inevitable agony...if she doesn't meet the criteria...she doesnt meet it, we are supposed to be objective with these things

i dont know what the solution is sheepdog, there's just too many people knocking on the door, and they all have a good and probably legitimate story.

maybe we should just open the door like the french and italians, straight into the community, fending for themselves, find work, eek out their own living, I'm cool with that. while refugee advocates don't like to admit it, the truth is refugees receive a hell of a lot support in this country, with housing and education etc. and there just isn't that much money to go around, personally I'm quite happy with this for refugees like what I've described before, 13 years in a camp to get their place, but for some wealthy family that's bought their way here...not so keen. the world is changing, oz has an incredibly expensive inefficient way of dealing with this problem, stuck in 1970s moral land. I'm more than happy to take europes way of dealing with stuff...but it will require changing the very fabric of Australian society, i think you'll have a fight on your hands there. im ready for it, I think its coming anyway, we can only maintain fortress oz while we're ridiculously wealthy, i think it's already over, realities of the world wilk catch up with us like it or not.

did you see 'go back to where you came from'. I only saw a little, but that vietnamese guy was pretty pissed that all these people are buying their way into the country, taking the places of others, I share his concerns, you may think I talk shit to justify some racist anti refugee stance, but you're wrong, I wholeheartedly support upping the numbers of refugees taken in, but they've gotta be real refugees who've done their time, too many people suffering in camps for decades, while economic migrants waltz in practically unabated after weeks of so called suffering, im done with that shit.

Sorry Sheepdog gunna have to take the soft option on this one and not weigh in. Whilst I have strong views on the topic it is far too emotive. As shown already in this thread. Just have two thoughts/comments.

First, if there was an easy solution, or even a solution, someone would've come up with it by now. This is after all a global problem.

Second, the Australia we live in now is not the Australia I grew up in, came back for and certainly is not an Australia I can be proud to call home. Far too much selfishness, ignorance and arrogance.

Peace out bro, hope things are on the up with the better half and the mainland's treatin ya well.

sypkan wrote:

while i agree we bare some responsibility for the middle east mess, i don't see how Australia is complicit (i like that word) in the mess that is iran.

1953...British Petroleum...Kermit Roosevelt, CIA...Australia being the lap dog to both and the Persian Shah saying fuck you to the west, this is Iran's oil, not the wests to rape and pillage.

That was the beginning of what we now know as radical islam, with the greatest kick along in 1978 by the Ayatollah Khomeini

yeh TGF, i knew that statement would come back to bite me. i totally get it, but how far back to you go? do we allow all of palestine to migrate to australia because we were cinplicit with the british drawing borders on tbe map? do we allow all the people from former British colonies in Africa to come because we were complicit in the colonisation of Africa for hundreds of years which stirred up tribal rivalries? how much history do you consider? how far back do you go? if we are going to go back through all of these events we may as well just open the borders.

none of you guys address the issue of how many you would let in, and how you would finance such a situation. its great to have ideals and morals, but just like labor no one wants to talk about numbers and the financing of such a policy.

I'm serious when i say fuck it just open the borders and everyone can move whereever they want, but to do this we could no longer have a welfare system, a health system and all the other things that make Australia a great place to live. i wonder how our indigenous brothers would fare in such a systen?

we are at a cusp of a new paradign, a new dilemma, with technology this situation is just going to get worse. Australia needs to make a choice, do we keep our nasty systems in place that maintains our standards of living?

or do we becone good global citizens that open the doors to everyone, cut services, and take a serious cut to our standard of living?

i honestly dont give a shit either way, I am established...now (after much hard work!!!) and my life will be fine either way.

I'm actually all for refugees, but I believe both sides of this argument present really simplistic arguments that don't consider the big picture stuff at all, because the public cannot handle the truth.

gents…if you want to see a 'successful' migration program look at the 40s and 50s. There the government shipped migrants from war torn Europe and elsewhere. There was organised basic accommodation with jobs. Much of the post war boom was because of this - Snowy Scheme, roads and communications, power in outback Aus. For some reason this stopped about the 70s - not sure why. So I suggest the solutions are there. But seem to be forgotten.

the border force officials should receive a slap on the wrist and better training to avoid this situation in future.

there's nothing else to the story though....all that stuff about "husband" and "iran", and "engineer" is just padding to heighten the emotional response to the story.

take all that shit out and the story is really boring....just another one of the millions that want to migrate here.

it was a different time tb, Australia was still establishing itself with infrastructure, needs and opportunities were endless. we could have had a similar system through the biggest mining boom in history but we squandered that opportunity and many others with lazy economics. now we're gonna pay for that laziness with the biggest slow down in our history, you think there's resentment to migration now, wait until our inevitable recession sets in, bad economic times always result in anti immigration sentiment

I'm getting real intrigued by Tony Barber and his little interlocutions on these threads. Reminds me somewhat of Donny in THE BIG LEBOWSKI:

WALTER: This was a valued rug. This was, uh--

DUDE: Yeah man, it really tied the room together--

WALTER: This was a valued, uh.

DONNY: What tied the room together, Dude?

WALTER: Were you listening to the story, Donny?

DONNY: What--

WALTER: Were you listening to the Dude's story?

DONNY: I was bowling--

WALTER: So you have no frame of reference, Donny. You're like a child who wanders in in the middle of a movie and wants to know--

DUDE: What's your point, Walter?

WALTER: There's no fucking reason--here's my point, Dude--there's no fucking reason--

DONNY: Yeah Walter, what's your point?

WALTER: Huh?

DUDE: What's the point of--we all know who was at fault, so what the fuck are you talking about?

WALTER: Huh? No! What the fuck are you talking--I'm not--we're talking about unchecked aggression here--

DONNY: What the fuck is he talking about?

DUDE: My rug.

[Sheepy could be Walter, Blowin' could be The Dude...or vice versa.]

I married my wife many moons ago we had a child and as soon as the child was old enough they were kicked out of the country ( and then allowed back in again)...dealing with those Bureaucrats was shit. My wife believes that we have an obligation to help those in need. I disagree, I feel charity starts at home.The sheer scale of the worlds displaced peoples can not be ignored. If I remember correctly we relocate 20 000 refugees a year. Some countries have millions of refugees in their countries ( Turkey) . Do we have the infrastructure in place to help 50 or 100 000 refugees each year ?.....What I find ironic is the Green party s strong advocacy for an 'open door ' immigration policy, a rapid increase in Australia's human population can only be detrimental to out natural environment.

she may have flown here by plane (its actually irrelevant)....all I read is that her claim for asylum failed. that seems pretty simple. its a bit unfortunate that it was 3 months prior to her completing education.

just out of interest.....did she marry in the two years while she was here?

have no problems with a growing Australia but first lets think about "Why" we are growing....for what reason? why is it important for a population to grow?

at the risk of temporarily diverting your intention.....everyone says this same thing. that being "growth, strength, population pyramid". but these come at a price.....the price of this is that we MUST by necessity be highly selective.

she could have been a real keeper (so to speak)....but if shes "failed the test" then she should reapply under a different course of action.

Shatner'sBassoon wrote:

I'm getting real intrigued by Tony Barber and his little interlocutions on these threads. Reminds me somewhat of Donny in THE BIG LEBOWSKI:

WALTER: This was a valued rug. This was, uh--

DUDE: Yeah man, it really tied the room together--

WALTER: This was a valued, uh.

DONNY: What tied the room together, Dude?

WALTER: Were you listening to the story, Donny?

DONNY: What--

WALTER: Were you listening to the Dude's story?

DONNY: I was bowling--

WALTER: So you have no frame of reference, Donny. You're like a child who wanders in in the middle of a movie and wants to know--

DUDE: What's your point, Walter?

WALTER: There's no fucking reason--here's my point, Dude--there's no fucking reason--

DONNY: Yeah Walter, what's your point?

WALTER: Huh?

DUDE: What's the point of--we all know who was at fault, so what the fuck are you talking about?

WALTER: Huh? No! What the fuck are you talking--I'm not--we're talking about unchecked aggression here--

DONNY: What the fuck is he talking about?

DUDE: My rug.

[Sheepy could be Walter, Blowin' could be The Dude...or vice versa.]

I loved that rug.

It was like a floor covering to me.

tb is one odd ball.

I used to think he was a liberal party stooge masquerading as a labor party member to try to make the labor party look dumb.

all that talk of bikies and factions etc.

offering yorksurfer some secret back door access to some factional group of the labor party through his connections like he could pull some strings or something

then the call of come on whingers join the labor party comrades...its only the price of a beer....then go on to spruik nuclear power or the coaltions asylum seeker policies....bizarre! !!

and then there's the intro's of....gents...

and the calls of enough talk...time to find the green room...swell is coming

seriously does anyone talk like that?...maybe some pompous liberal party stooge who's trying to look like a worker and make labor and its factions look bad. he's either a well educated dumb cunt, or a well educated smart cunt who really has no idea about labor type peopke

if he's really a labor party member someone should school him up to not appear like such a tool, or if you're really a passionate member tones...tone it down...you're doing your party no favours.

i know you're a clubby, but can anyone be that nerdy?

Ok minimal details given in story, but here's my read....

She came here back in 2011 or 2012 via boat...claimed asylum. This allowed her to study but she had no student visa so govt can move her around. Then once her claims to asylum are tracking poorly she goes and gets married to an Australian.

So her options are.....reapply as a student or more simply just as a spouse. My bet is that she'll choose the spouse option.

immigration- lets face it, it needs work.
Fact- we are all humans and it is obvious that other humans need help.
Fact- we are not able to help some countries get their economies stable enought to provide shelter and jobs for these displaced people.
Fact- there are many children, women and young men living in refugee camps that have poor quality of living standards.
Fact- we in Australia are living wonderfully with heaps of room available.
Fact- it wont work just bringing them in if we have the same economy
Fact- water is the most valuable resource on the planet.
Fact- every summer norther australia has a big wet season where millions of litres of water runs off not being used.
Fact- droughts are a problem.
Fact- water is need to most industries, especially food production.
Fact- the Snowy River scheme worked and used many migrant workers and helped our economy immensely whilst helping multicultural australia.
Fact- the world is suffering food supply shortages because of weather events.
Fact- if we piped the water from the north down south we could create many new regional economies plus sure up our food supply whilst settling immigrants who could work in many areas.
Fact- australia has to be pro active in ensuring the future of our country by providing jobs and infrastructure that enables it be to sustainably efficient and self reliant.
vision for australia but assisting others in need whilst giving all the opportunity to participate in the growth of themselves and our communities.

sypkan…remember most of us have not lived through a bad recession or even a depression. Let alone a war. Sure we have had wars in other lands but not on our turf for sometime. Trying not to be pompous, but I aint no big l liberal. I am more interested in 'solutions' or 'answers' rather than discombobulation.

tonybarber wrote:

gents…if you want to see a 'successful' migration program look at the 40s and 50s. There the government shipped migrants from war torn Europe and elsewhere. There was organised basic accommodation with jobs. Much of the post war boom was because of this - Snowy Scheme, roads and communications, power in outback Aus. For some reason this stopped about the 70s - not sure why. So I suggest the solutions are there. But seem to be forgotten.

You mustn't have been to the Pilbara in the last decade.

Half of the workforce , maybe more , are migrants if you count Kiwis as migrants.

Considering how infrequently ie never, you hear about any problems regarding integration you'd have to consider that a success.

Let's not forget the WA minister heading to Ireland and pleading for workers.

150,000 Irish migrant arrivals in a two year span apparently.

Australia's immigration program is a success - if flooding the country with people is your thing - just because a person is found overstaying their visa and faces the law doesn't make Australia a hotbed of Neo Nazi fascists.

As for this lady being "dragged along the ground " by police, I would have thought that's how a large percentage of arrests go down.

Who WANTS to jump in the back of the paddy wagon ?

Not me.

That's one of the main reasons I don't overstay my visa when in a foreign country.

discombobulation
even after 10 website dictionary pages iI cannot understand the context of this word....looks like a pompous word for confuse, but thanks tony, being an uneducated git I like new words. good onya tony keep up your good fight...whatever that is...but I do believe you are portraying a bad image for the labor party and its members.they really don't need your help in this deparment.

I'm not confusing the argument tony just saying that was a really really different time. I cannot see refugees doing the infrastructure work now, skilled migrants maybe, but that doesn't do anything to address the refugee issue, either way it would cost $10 billion just to school them up on Australias ridiculous OH&S laws before a single sod of soil is turned, a way different time.

I dont get it sheepdog....I'm discombobulated, you don't think we're heading for lean economic times? we're already in a recession, once labors over stimulus wears off anyway. there's no money for the settlement costs for the 100 000s or even millions of refugees you seem to think we should be taking.

prerty much agree with daverave, especially as he included a key disclaimer

fact. it won't work just bringing them in if we have the same economy

also the pumping of water from the north thing has been raised many times (interestingly usually by crackpot right wing farmer types like barnaby joyce) it always gets shot down because it would take a ludicrous amount of energy to pump water up over the geography. water is great at going down hill but incredibly heavy to push up. which is why dams and hydroelectricity are fantastic solutions. why dont we just use them? oh that's right the left wont alliw it!!!

I'll admit i have no workable solution in mind at this point in time...apart from arresting the push factors, maybe that is a good a place as any to start.

Did any of you guys watch Q&A last night? Chris Hadfield, Former Commander of the International Space Station was one of the panelists...pity we cant all take a long ride in the ISS, that would surely change the majorities outlook on life and the planet we collectivley occupy.

Sypkan...re: water flowing up hill without electricity, have you ever seen or heard of evaporation tunnels...they already exist...water flows uphill extremely well using these, especially in hot climates, something that we have plenty of in Oz. Ive not seen em on an industrial scale but that is just a matter of engineering.

nice one TGF, I often think about the billions we spend managing a small number of refugees being focussed towards push factors, even if we cant fix these countries economies we would improve the lives of a hell of a lot more people.

unfortunately missed q and a, no tv at the moment

evaporation tunnels sound interesting

love your little footer there BTW

Unfortunately most push factors come from God, Guns and control of Natural Resouces...this is where a paradigm shift is needed, hence my reference to Chris Hadfield.

Evap tunnels are cool...there was a WA company that wanted to use them to help de-salinate ruined cropping land in the wheat belt and provide extra water for Perth...would have been a net power outcome too using the head from the scarp to generate the energy needed for pumping the water to Perth. But they weren't greasing the right palms and 2 desal plants costing near on 2 billion were built instead...subject for another thread.

My sig...Alby is another good human worth listening to...met him a few times 20 odd years ago when i lived with Paul Witzig...opened my eyes to another existence.

pumping water from north to south?.....what about using solar to pump water into dams during the day....then releasing that water downstream during the night to provide hydroelectric all the while moving the water along....repeat ....repeat. build communities along the way siphoning off for cultivation of the arid land. couple this design with solar array networks all feeding into a HVDC network that is sent all around the country and perhaps overseas.

im happy to chip in $5 if that'll help.

happyasS wrote:

pumping water from north to south?.....what about using solar to pump water into dams during the day....then releasing that water downstream during the night to provide hydroelectric all the while moving the water along....repeat ....repeat. build communities along the way siphoning off for cultivation of the arid land. couple this design with solar array networks all feeding into a HVDC network that is sent all around the country and perhaps overseas.

im happy to chip in $5 if that'll help.

Fuck mate, don't let the peasants be coming up with possible, workable solutions, you'll have the gestapo knocking at your door...cause you just came up with a plan Hitler had for Germany less solar power of course. Run a central pipeline with feeders going off to create industry and food bowls for the greater good of the population.

You'd better hurry up with these ideas fellas.

China is already swooping in for the big water grab in the Kimberly.