Turnbull rolls over "again" to the ultra right
This explains a lot.
http://www.theguardian.com/science/brain-flapping/2015/apr/02/democracy-...
tonybarber wrote:Lets not forget the ineptitude and corruption from both sides of politics. Time to get involved instead of whinging about it. Yeah, sure everyone wants to pay as much tax as possible, yeah sure.
@TB, totally agree both sides are equally jelly-backed about reaming tax dodgers, got to do with the lobby groups in permanent residence in Canberra of course. Seem to remember you defending lobby groups on more than one occasion.
You also say get involved. Why, when the political system and elite from both sides are a big part of the problem. Real solutions need to come from outside the political system as we know it. A people's revolution = everyone voting informal or making every government a single term government until the politicians get the message we are fed up with the bullshit.
The tax avoidance industry predates all current politicians. It employs the best accounting and legal brains in the world and is centred not on some far off "island" but look no further than the City of London (its statue predates the English Parliament) and certain American states like Delaware.
Hockey is making the right noises for domestic political consumption in the full knowledge he has little chance of doing anything about it anytime in the next decade. When push comes to shove he would be fighting the UK and American Governments who will fight any meaningful reform inch by inch.
Time for Australia to stand up in the world and say fuck off to this "sovereign risk" bullshit and tell foreign rent-seekers you operate here you pay tax otherwise fuck off.
Hey TB you are missing the floyd point.
The issue is stopping multinational tax avoidance.
Joe Hockey is making the right noises
"corporations who don’t pay the “legitimate” amount of tax are “thieves”.
Perhaps this pending "Google" tax will help to address the avoidance.
https://theconversation.com/australia-eyes-missing-billions-with-very-ow...
Why wait for G20 ? Start now, this pending "Google" tax by Hockey & the UK are similar to plain box packaging of ciggies basically someone has to test the concept be it in court if necessary.
Also why not make Paypal in Australia incorporate a drop down box to claim GST credits via e-bay purchases ? The 10% is diverted to ATO & while we are at it foreign purchase via e-bay / Paypal could use something similar to cover in-port duties which typically go undetected.
And the govt needs to start investing in ATO inspectors, the digital economy is a new paradigm, no more bricks & mortar, just a global click away. Corporate tax avoidance will be a election issue which is why both parties are making similar noises.
Agree fishlegs the shark cage operation is a circus & some of the proposed location the operators are suggesting are within 20km of mainland. At least Neptune Islands is double that distance.
Cheers Johno
@johno...the tax issue is a bit more complex and as you mentioned traverses borders and is a problem for many nations. It seemed that it was the current governments problem re the foreign companies tax payments - not true of course. As the article BB links to (for UK by the way) may be relevant to Aus. Well, you could wait for an inspirational, charismatic leader or may be get involved. We are still a democracy and importantly are allowed to create a group to maybe get the ear of a political. So why the complaints.
tonybarber wrote:@johno...the tax issue is a bit more complex and as you mentioned traverses borders and is a problem for many nations. It seemed that it was the current governments problem re the foreign companies tax payments - not true of course. As the article BB links to (for UK by the way) may be relevant to Aus. Well, you could wait for an inspirational, charismatic leader or may be get involved. We are still a democracy and importantly are allowed to create a group to maybe get the ear of a political. So why the complaints.
Ever the apologist for the status quo Tones ........
Hey TB your quote : "Lets not forget the ineptitude and corruption from both sides of politics. Time to get involved instead of whinging about it. Yeah, sure everyone wants to pay as much tax as possible, yeah sure"
Well both sides of politics here & in the UK are complaining so why confuse the issue TB ?
"In Britain the Public Accounts Committee reported in 2013 that instead of paying the standard 20% corporation tax on its US$18 billion UK revenues between 2006 and 2011, Google paid just US$16 million. That is less than 0.1%."
http://theconversation.com/google-tax-debate-pits-corporate-thieves-agai...
"Google chairman Eric Schmidt has defended the company's tax policies, saying of the internet giant's moves to get out of paying billions of dollars: "It's called capitalism".
http://www.smh.com.au/business/world-business/google-on-tax-schemes--its...
You know what really pisses people off TB.
When Google, Apple, MS, Warner Brothers squeal if there intellectual property / copyrights are being compromised. And our Govt's recognise & enforce those rights because it is international law & more importantly the moral thing to do, which is a far cry from Indonesia I might add ! But ultimately we are consumers & choose who we spend with but the corporate attitude by some of these companies is at odds with what is considered acceptable behaviour & they need to change / adapt not us.
Cheers Johno
blindboy wrote:The only hope is that they are so arrogant and have such a profound lack of self awareness that they will be unable to stick to their current conciliatory tones for long. Consider the personal qualities of Hockey, Pyne and Morrison, all rabid right wing ideologues who struggle to hide their contempt for all but their own over -priveleged class. Nice private school boys trained from birth to defend the rights of the elite to extract their wealth by whatever means are necessary. Rent seekers hardly dioes them justice. They stand for the ruthless exploitation of labour and the total disregard of those who cannot contribute to the economy.
Abbott himself is simply a prop. He was made leader only because he has a talent for dissembling that the others, in their fierce self righteousness, are unable to emulate. So he stands as indisputably the worst leader, regardless of policy, in our history; a shallow impulsive clown trapped by his anachronistic belief system into an absolute inability to judge policies on thir merits. There he goes strutting around with that stiff ungainly gait that, for all his fitness, reveals an absolute lack of athletic ability.
Nicely put.
A few years ago I wrote a document and sent it to all the political parties, unions and media stating that the word Tax is a problem. It represents having to pay, a penalty. FRom everyday working people to multinational corporations and businesses' all despise having to pay tax and spend a vast amount of effort trying to avoid paying tax.
So i suggested changing it to a Community Contribution Scheme. THe real reason for tax is to allow Government to provide and maintain essential community services and infrastructure. IF this was educated to the population and became the common awareness, people would be happy to pay their yearly contributions. Even allow the big" tax" payers a choice to choose where they wanted their contributions used. If govts were more transparent and said we need this amount for hospitals, roads etc etc people would be more inclined to contribute.
I know this sounds radical and far fetched and many think that we are too selfish to accept this notion . But it makes more sense and having a whole country with an awareness of not having to pay a tax or a penalty of sorts, but rather being able to contribute and support their communities would put much more peer group pressure on those that avoid paying tax. IN fact, they would brag about just how much they contribute to the economy through their yearly contributions and could also be used to attract customers because of their commitment to their communities.
Currently tax is seen as a penalty, something to get out of if you can, we must turn the concept into one where it is seen in a positive way.
Taxes pay for the roads we drive on, the footpaths we walk on, the hospitals we need etc etc, yet paying tax is viewed by all of the population as a pain in the arse. A change of perspective is needed, a re education and the word tax has to go, it's outlived it's use and been tainted with a negative meaning.
Tax
@Johno210 quotes this ...... "Google chairman Eric Schmidt has defended the company's tax policies, saying of the internet giant's moves to get out of paying billions of dollars: "It's called capitalism".
I read the link and Eric is apparently proud of what they have achieved saying its legal.
Herein is a prime example as to why leaving everything to the market does not work and it needs strong government to intervene because its not just an economy but a society, as davetherave highlights.
I'm sure the likes of Eric Schmidt would be the first to scream this sovereign risk bullshit if government started fiddling with their morally bankrupted business model.
With respect davetherave your argument falls down cos us humans - corporations, countries, individuals are consumed with greed, its our weak side you see, so this is where again we need strong government to collect the taxes that go toward the society you paint.
These multinationals love investing in countries like Australia with low levels of corruption and civivl unrest, where offices or factories don't have to be guarded by men with sub-machines guns, where kidnappings are unheard of, where politicians are jelly backed, where land can be purchased by foreigners and best of all where they can avoid tax on earnings from the high wage earning Aussies. The land of milk and honey.
Time for a new era. No pussy footing required. Just strong government.
Floyd said : "Time for a new era. No pussy footing required. Just strong government"
Agree & what a challenge !
One things for certain the ATO should be embedding ATO agents into these companies & mapping there business model & force a zero tolerance attitude. New tax laws for a new millennium
Check out some of the comments below in attached link regarding Google Ops in Oz
http://www.smh.com.au/business/how-savvy-multinationals-curb-their-tax-b...
"Google Australia booked $201 million in revenue for services it provided other companies within the global group, yet still made a loss of $3.9 million.
Despite paying only $74,000 in Australian taxes, Google has lobbied the government for more spending on infrastructure.
Speaking at an event in Sydney in May, the Google Australia chief executive, Nick Leeder, joined other tech leaders in calling on the government to do more to support start-ups, such as developing a ''silicon beach''.
''Just as New York created Silicon Alley and that entered into the lexicon, I think that should be an ambition for us,'' he said.
He accused Australia of being a ''conservative thinking country'' that was not comfortable with failure. ''If you take a big risk in this place, you can face-plant very quickly and get punished for it.''
The opposition communications spokesman, Malcolm Turnbull, has accused the internet giant of being disingenuous. ''Google would be more credible if it actually put its money where its mouth was,'' he told Parliament in June.
''It's all very well for Google, paying $74,000 of tax in Australia, to be encouraging the Australian taxpayer to spend $50 billion on an NBN, of which Google will be an enormous beneficiary.
''But it is not contributing anything to the tax base here to enable that investment to be made.''
A Google Australia spokesman would not comment directly on its tax paid, but said in a statement it complied with relevant tax laws"
And here's the problem Floyd refer comments below from Frank Drenth from same article
''If an Australian advertiser made a payment to Google, and she went through a contact entered into with someone who had an Irish server, then it would be difficult under the Australian tax law to prove that the sources of those profits are in Australia.''
''That's the challenge that law makers and revenue authorities in most developed countries are facing,'' he says.
Cheers Johno
Google and others can act like corporate thugs cos they know there are layers and layers of protection between them and hard arsed politicians (if any exist) willing to take them on; these layers are called lobbyists and for all work they do here in Australia nobbling government and democracy its chicken feed to what happens in the US where many of these companies are owned. Can's see Uncle Sam letting some of his biggest and most profitable companies taking a tax hit anytime soon. That's why Hockey is pissing in the wind, again.
Over to you Tones to defend lobbyist, yet again. Which one do you work for?
yeah boys, i know, it wasn't an argument i put forward but an idealistic vision of a good human society and business activity. The Tax part was only one section and i called it Wholistic Evolution and I suggested all politicians should have same super contributions as all other aussie workers. I was so excited when i opened the letter from John Howard himself and how he described how he had discussed this with his treasurer and cabinet and they liked the idea as they were painting a picture of the next budget being about the family- the australian family.
Can u remember they dropped the pollies super contributions back to 9% like everyone else, I thought, rave-you fucking legend, then first official day of parliament they all voted- both sides- to raise contributions back to 18%. And I thought, rave you really are a lunatic. I think they Call it Polly Anna Syndrome!
Yeah, read the the link Floyd, that Heath Aston bloke put in writing what a lot of people all ready know, but the masses shrug it off as 'that's just the way it is' or simply feel they can't change things, and don't bother. Obviously, multinationals and their share holders have profited from the business models incorporated into their companies, to off load profits to countries were they can dodge their losses. That is what post industrialisation is all about! Think about BHPB building a massive infrastructure to expand their overall productivity and knowing full well that in this country (OZ) the past and current Governments have allowed them massive tax breaks, if they invest and the whole build goes pear shape due too a major fall in commodity price and escalation in the Oz $, they'll just walk away It's akin to negative gearing for the middle class and upwards, but in a global scale. Look what happened to Ravensthorpe
Blowin wrote:blindboy wrote:The only hope is that they are so arrogant and have such a profound lack of self awareness that they will be unable to stick to their current conciliatory tones for long. Consider the personal qualities of Hockey, Pyne and Morrison, all rabid right wing ideologues who struggle to hide their contempt for all but their own over -priveleged class. Nice private school boys trained from birth to defend the rights of the elite to extract their wealth by whatever means are necessary. Rent seekers hardly does them justice. They stand for the ruthless exploitation of labour and the total disregard of those who cannot contribute to the economy.
Abbott himself is simply a prop. He was made leader only because he has a talent for dissembling that the others, in their fierce self righteousness, are unable to emulate. So he stands as indisputably the worst leader, regardless of policy, in our history; a shallow impulsive clown trapped by his anachronistic belief system into an absolute inability to judge policies on thir merits. There he goes strutting around with that stiff ungainly gait that, for all his fitness, reveals an absolute lack of athletic ability.Nicely put.
What ever party can navigate their way to the middle ground will most likely have an opportunity to be remembered as the Whitlam or dare I say Fraser in Oz Politic history for a very long time.
And then is Murdoch siphoning off $4.5 billion to the US "Tax Free" .....
http://www.theage.com.au/business/rupert-murdochs-us-empire-siphons-45-b...
Only comment made is "It complies with the law".
Sheepdog wrote:Floyd - http://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2015/apr/02/future-fund-refuse...
Says everything about what is rotten about Australian politics and tax law.
A former Australian Government treasurer heading up a quasi-government agency which reports to the parliament involved in tax avoidance. Its a wonder Arthur Sinodinos isn't looking for a gig there.
Even more evidence that the answers to tax avoidance need to come from outside the political parties / elite.
As I said earlier its theft and we're seemingly apathetic to it.
Conversations with Richard Fidler
Tony Windsor is the former independent Federal Member for New England.
http://www.abc.net.au/local/stories/2015/04/08/4212632.htm
Interesting listen of the 2010 cliff hanger election & the following 17 days that unfolded where it fell to Tony and his fellow independents, Rob Oakeshott, Bob Katter & Andrew Wilkie to choose the next government of Australia.
He doesn't beat around the bush (no pun intended)
At the end of the podcast he relates a conversation he has with Barnaby Joyce post election, which exemplifies the whole 'pork barrelling' mentality that exists within the major parties.
Cheers Johno
Just got layed off, the boss said I'm redundant due to a "fiscal dynamic that made it unviable to continue with the current terms of my employment" I think that means I've just been sacked. So I'm gunna fill the tummy full of Coopers Red, wake in the morning and try to get another job, again.
Thats my Reality today.
Spewing Fishlegs.
Better days ahead mate.
Fidler is a pretty switched on cat.
Cheers Blowin, I was going to fly my son over from NZ in May, haven't seen him since he was a baby. It'll still happen bro just might be a bit harder now. Just gotta pull me socks up and carry on.
The Business World has been full of talk about the inability of the Business Elite to pick the lastest fall in interest rates given the Globally recognised Realestate and asset bubble we have here in Australia. Mainly due to cheap credit and the blind eye to foreign investors by the current "Torrie" Government. Many thought it would be prudent to sit and wait it out.
In a blog in a financial script yesterday there was a post suggesting a possible reason for the "Governor" of The Reserve Bank moving and perhaps moving again.
It works like this.
The current Prime Minister was about to be tossed for a challenger the "Governor" thought less of and to restore "some" confidence into his preference he dropped interest rates at the further risk of financial calamity further down the track.
According to this blogger if this is correct then we can expect another fall in rates around May to sell an unpopular budget.
If this is true we live in dangerous times here in Australia when a senior Public Servant can assist a Prime Minister as unpopular as this one to push an Agenda that only alienates Australians and continues the countries conversion to the British Tax Free Zone of the South Pacific. The new Hong Kong.
What about the pulling back of penalty rates? You almost have to work weekends because it's the busiest time and your boss wants you to work. Low paid workers effected, mostly. Big shopping centres can charge you a base rent plus a % of your profit. You win and loose in December. At xmas bosses want u to work 7 days, without penalty rates? If you had a shop in the high street then they build a s/centre down the road, where r u going to go when business drops off? You'll end up at the s/centre and loose control of your business in certain ways.
If penalty rates disappear, then does that mean next time I ring a plumber at 1am, he won't charge me a call out fee? After all it is a penalty rate or charge!
Bit of a rant but really they r picking on the low wage earners first. How will this effect your salary? Or the way u quote a job? 24 hr trades (plumbing, etc) at normal rates? Do we go back to no trading on Sunday's, anybody remember when shops closed at noon on Saturday? Stone age. That's B.S.T(before sunday trading). Or r we just falling in line with China. Wonder if imported chinese workers get penalty rates (an example, not a racist comment).
Fix the tax system first. Fix government over spending first. I don't follow any party over the other and sorry if this topic was mentioned earlier (did my best to read it all).
Given Abbott apparently likes a beer I thought it explains a lot about his loose treatment of the truth .....
The official Abbott PR footage of him draining one with the Young Lib rugger buggers was cringeworthy in all its transparent glory, but the unofficial shots of creepy Uncle Tones 'bubbling' a la Todd Carney later on with the boys were beyond the pale. Oi! Oi! Oy Vey!
That shot of Abbott drinking a beer was disgusting. And unAustralian. And overtly pseudo masculine. And uncivilised. And a slap in the face to all those experiencing alcohol related domestic violence. And reinforcing of the binge drinking culture that is tearing apart the fabric of the beautifully Puritanical society Australia is becoming.
What about the children !!!??
I'm so ashamed right now.
Don't touch me .
The sand in my vagina is grating.
Buuuurp.
Your shout.
Sorry for the uplift- style steam of consciousness, but AM beers will do that to you.
theshovel.com.au wrote:Communications Minister Malcolm Turnbull has shown his lighter side, finishing a glass of limited release Bordeaux and a bowl of lightly salted basil-and-thyme crackers in less than half an hour.
Egged on by his dinner guests at his harbour-side home, Mr Turnbull said he was proud of the achievement. “It takes me back to my uni days when we’d knock back a Barossa Shiraz without even decanting it,” he said.
http://www.theshovel.com.au/2015/04/20/malcolm-turnbull-downs-a-glass-of...
nice work ben
I reckon this effort trumps Turnbulls moment .
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-04-26/barack-obama-pokes-fun-at-washingt...
Trying to get my head around this.....
Due to low interest rates, Hockey has come out and said this morning he wants Australians to borrow money to stimulate the economy.... So, in fact he is asking Australians and Australian business owners to have "personal deficits"....
BUT..... for years now, we have heard Abbott and Hockey waffle about the "debt and deficit disaster"...
A mass amount of individuals borrowing billions to stimulate the economy but going into personal debt - GOOD
The labor party borrowing billions of dollars to stimulate the economy but going into debt - BAD....
I suppose if the conservatives privatize the deficit, that's a good thing..... lol.....
What a fuckwit does anyone know if Hockey has any economic credentials, and if not why and how does he get the most important portfolio in government.
garnget wrote:What a fuckwit does anyone know if Hockey has any economic credentials, and if not why and how does he get the most important portfolio in government.
Mr elleventy billion, hes proved time and time again what a numbskull he is but totally qualified for the job with the same crucial credentials as most portfolio holders....he attended a north shore private school
No wonder business confidence is ebbing out with incompetent tools like this running the country.
silicun wrote:garnget wrote:What a fuckwit does anyone know if Hockey has any economic credentials, and if not why and how does he get the most important portfolio in government.
Mr elleventy billion, hes proved time and time again what a numbskull he is but totally qualified for the job with the same crucial credentials as most portfolio holders....he attended a north shore private school
not a member of the mad hueys is he? certainly qualifies.
Keating used to manage rock bands before he entered parliament and then become a notable Treasurer. Great place Aus, any Aussie can be PM or Treasurer.
Yeah,,,, and Joe was a fucking lawyer, and a bad one at that..... That's why he became a politician....
The majority of politicians are a joke they sit for 63 days a year compared to the poms sitting twice as much. Yet they winge that they cant pass bills as they dont have enough time for serious debate.They are only too happy to take a very generous wage and even more generous super package in the guise of public service .
Australians are so fucking apathetic about freedom, it's scary.....
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-05-08/edward-snowden-says-australias-mas...
Sure, the USA might not be perfect, but at least they value freedom, which is reflected in court decisions....
http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2015/may/07/nsa-phone-records-program...
Sheepdog wrote:Australians are so fucking apathetic about freedom, it's scary.....
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-05-08/edward-snowden-says-australias-mas...
Sure, the USA might not be perfect, but at least they value freedom, which is reflected in court decisions....
http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2015/may/07/nsa-phone-records-program...
One man's apathetic is another's brain dead, the land of the great white bogan piss head: fuck, everything returns to Stu's favorite little buddies the mad fuckheads.
Stamp those feet and point that finger Floyd.
List five things that you have personally done that differentiates yourself from the other 99.9999999 percent of Australians - the pissed white bogans - to improve Australia.
At least the Hueys are selling clothes overseas and earning export dollars for the country that will eventually pay for hospitals and schools.
What have you ever done ?
Being a net drain on society that continues to exaggerate and trumpet the failure of others doesn't count unfortunately......otherwise you'd have a list thirty pages long.
Start your list cobber.
I help friends, blowin... I love my family.... I share...... I listen..... I care.... I'd even pick you up out of the dirt if you fell down in front of me, even though I thoroughly disagree with your "safety in numbers" mentality .... Your brain is in"park"......But your heart is in the right place...
And I try to point out to the populists how the government is hiding behind terrorism so they can tap journalists who might report on their dodgy dealings.....
very funny blowbag
Come on Floyd.
You're naming and shaming Australia's shameful drunken population -who above all else have the temerity to be white amongst their innumerable crimes- that is destroying the country's future. Then let's hear about your contribution towards Australia's common good.
I'm serious.
blowie, you're not serious you're maybe just pissed off coz I stated the bleeding obvious and you mightn't like that, maybe its just too close to home.
australia is awash with alcohol and anyone that thinks differently need only visit any public hospital emergency centre later on tonight; car accidents, bashings, domestic violence and self inflicted injuries caused by the mega consumption of alcohol (and drugs). Or watch the footie on TV tonight and count the beer ads or go to your niece's 2nd birthday tomorrow and count the adults on the piss. Or take a trip out to a remote community see how fucked up those places are cos of alcohol. Not to mention those special nationally significant days of the year when its apparently mandatory to wear an australian flag as a shirt and drink yourself stupid. Oh how long you got blowin?
Or you could visit anyone of the 23000000 Australians you just tarred and denigrated with the same brush.
The same brain dead Aussies that look after you in hospital, put out your house when it's on fire or that would donate money and time during an emergency in your neighbourhood ....those Aussies ?
Brain dead Aussies..... best country in the world to live in and you think it's populated by brain dead dickhead drunks.
Good luck finding a better place with better people.
It's all close to home mate, it's our community and our country.
Still waiting for a list of your contributions towards making Australia a better place.
Doesn't count whining and slandering bordering on rascism unfortunately for you.
"Not to mention those national days when it's apparently mandatory to wear an Aussie flag T Shirt and drink yourself stupid."
Ha ha ha.
Fuck you're a precious wanker.
Your house must of been surrounded by flag wearing Leo Wankers last Anzac Day was it ?
Is that what the guardian says happened ? Did you see millions of angry drunks glassing each other and forcing Southern Cross shirts over your hopes of the world -bearing shoulders ?
You do love a bit of overblown melodrama.
Mate, it's a great country full of great people . Maybe you should get out there and enjoy it for once.
Appreciate how good you've got it.
I was going to say that if a dickhead like you is struggling in Australia , the most compassionate place imaginable ,imagine how you'd fare anywhere else .
But that would be mean on this nice Saturday night in beautiful, oppression free Oz.
Good luck living on welfare in China me old china plate.
Floyd = fuckhead
That's all you got barley? How long did it take your pea brain to come up with that?
Hey blowin, you came pretty close to calling me un Australian in your last post, anything but that ole boy cos that's the ultimate insult in this jingoistic world we now live in. Now back to the war on terror shall we ......
Now back to blaming everyone else shall we....
No-one got anything to say about the loss of the car industry under a government and high viz Tony that promised to create 1,000,000 jobs?
Slumber away ........