Surf rage

So you waited for two or three waves to break before you paddled around the pack to the inside ?

Sire is very generous indeed.

Here it is - even though you thought you were surfing a different section, you were still taking the best waves of the session after paddling around a crew waiting their turn. Sounds like the pack was sitting in the place with an option at every wave , whilst you’re spot only offered an entry into the best ones.

I know a place wth a set up exactly the same. It does my head in sitting down with the pack watching the right ones link all the way through, but crew are prone to getting upset if you paddle past them to get to it . Which is fair enough as you’re jumping the queue. It’s a hard one. The answer is to sit in the pack till it’s your turn and then paddle further up the point. This is the right thing to do.

Can’t say I always do the right thing. Depends who is out there and what you can get away with. But I know that if I’m sitting further down and someone paddles past me up to the point it gives me the shits.

One thing set in stone is that if you go to the police you are a weak dog. That’s not what we do in Australia. If you are choosing to paddle up the line and take priority before it’s your turn then you have created conflict and the consequences are yours to own.

I can’t believe you’d even contemplate going to the police. So fucked up.

It’s a big world out there . Give respect to earn respect and stand on your own two feet.

Nothing more frustrating than some one constantly paddling past you to sit deeper then take off, call you off and then not make the section anyway.
If you were doing this you deserve whatever you get.
But!
It sounds like you’re being honest and if you’re letting a few sets (not waves) pass in between you taking off deeper and not blowing the waves etc then I think you’ve done nothing wrong.

And yes do not go to the cops, that’s piss weak

Jameso you have every right to use that kind of strategy. By sitting out there you are sacrificing the opportunity to catch the other waves, so when it comes ......... it's yours. If people want to take turns they should probably play tennis. As for the police, it doesn't sound like it's necessary but if the threat is repeated or you learn that the bloke has form for those kind of assaults, you are absolutely entitled to seek their assistance.

“ If people want to take turns they should probably play tennis .”

Worst attitude you could possibly take into any lineup. I’ve done it myself, taken waves from others . Caught some great waves but always well aware of the fact that I was being a selfish scumbag the whole time. Very poor advice and likely to lead to further confrontation of the type experienced.

To actively promote acting like a prick in any social setting and then scurrying into police protection when things don’t go your way is as bad as it gets.

I think you played it well James.

If there are better waves going down deeper or further up the point and people aren't sitting there to get them, then go for it.

You're even holding back a few sets and being conscious. The people down the line should take note that not every set is breaking there and you're waiting for the particular one.

On the other side of the coin sometimes you want to sit where you're comfortable in the lineup and if you've been waiting for the right set and then someone paddles up inside you, not to snake but wait for the one they're after, it puts a stress on the situation which can than turn a working lineup into a free for all.

so you got one verbal comment?
and fled.

That ain't surf rage mate.

but yeah, good luck sitting 10-15 metres inside a pack of locals at any east coast or west coast or Indo or Hawaiian surf break and expecting any set you want.

It is surf rage for the vulnerable modern Australian who is entitled to everything and answerable to no one.

It truly beggars belief that the coppers would even enter into someone’s thought process if a major crime wasn’t involved. Harsh words do not constitute a major crime.

Yeah, re the coppers, not even remotely close to being dragged into this.

I say hold your ground. Taking turns / giving way / not paddling for every wave may be preferred etiquette, but except for obvious transgressions (drop-ins, jumping off a point and taking next set) the lineup doesn't adhere to a rules-based order. To an extent, everyone is pushing for a little bit more, and in crowded waves like Burleigh that usually means impinging on someone elses quota.

I often test the waters, so to speak, to see what I can get away with, and if someone pushes back, sometimes verbally but mostly by body language, then I back off. All cool, we now know where we stand, so let the session continue.

Personally I would've paddled back out and had it out verbally with him if that's what he wanted (the threat, of course, was just bluster). State your case if you feel strongly. Then again, be ready to relinquish your position if his counter argument is, err, compelling.

My experience is that line ups work way better when there's a bit of tension blowing in the breeze. Just enough to keep people aware. So be aware of the signals.

None of the above applies in uncrowded surf. That's when you talk to those fuckwits you're sharing the break with, have a laugh, enjoy the vibes.

Same goes localised waves, except the bit about laughing and enjoying the vibes. Just sit back and take it easy. Paddling up the inside, even if you're justified will only make you a target.

There’s a completely different mode of etiquette for those used to surfing in large crowds to those from quieter areas.

Usually only takes a few surfs for crowd accustomed surfers to adapt to the different pace if they’re self aware. Those who travel in groups never adapt and can destroy pecking orders and good times indefinitely.

I don't see any problem with paddling further up the point to wait for a particular wave, but I'd be making sure that I was taking a little less than my "fair share" just to be safe - the additional quality making up for a drop in quantity.

I don’t think you’ve done anything wrong James, you waited for a few sets to pass, and it’s not your fault the others weren’t sitting at the top for the best ones. They went for numbers you went for quality. I’ve had it happen to me but in reverse. I lucked into a day of the year type scenario once at CB, I was sitting at what I thought was the top of the wave and doing my best to get some scraps amongst a group of proper legends. It was quite big, and then I notice this fat guy paddling well up the reef. I’m thinking oh man this guy is going to hurt himself. 15 minutes later, the fat guy screams past in an absolute bomb, locked into a barrel of epic proportions. When he paddled back out again for another it dawned on me it was Reef Macintosh. He’s gone on record as saying that’s his preferred takeoff spot at that wave I remembered. So yeah James, all credit to you for identifying the best takeoff spot for the best waves. Sounds like the old guy is delusional. I’d have paddled back out and confronted him about it though

You let a fat guy sit inside of you?

For shame...

Reality check on those saying the police have no role. There have been quite a few cases of serious assault based on incidents in the surf. They are rare but they happen and often the culprits are serial offenders. If you feel a threat is real then the police will be happy to have, in the first instance, a quiet non-threatening chat with the bloke about keeping cool. Those who think this is in someway tied up with their masculinity and that they should settle things man to man are living in the past. Violence arising from that type of toxic masculinity is a problem. Don't go there. There are no winners from violence.

What about toxic entitlement ?

If you’re the innocent victim of an unprovoked violent assault, go see the coppers by all means.

If you’re paddling out with the idea that your fellow surfers are there to be paddled around without consequence , that someone else’s pleasant surf is subject to your greedy opportunism forcing them into an unpleasant competitive situation, then who are you to ascribe the limits to the conflict you have created ?

It’s not toxic masculinity to own your decisions and actions. It’s called being a man or even just being an adult.

If you think you’re going to paddle rings around me and steal my waves then you’re either not real bright or you can fight really well.

Laurie , What’s your response to getting verbally pulled up as Stu suggested ? Do you argue the point that it’s a competition to catch waves and that you’ve got no respect for others rights to catch waves without hassle ? Do you tell people that they’ve got to man-up if they intend to get any good waves when you’re around ?

That sounds like a toxic attitude to me.

First up it's Burliegh, one heavily localized spot
2nd some of those older locals aren't always bluffing
3rd, sounds like you had a few fun ones, so be happy, take note of his warning and maybe surf the beachies for a while, those guys have a good memory.

"If you think you’re going to paddle rings around me and steal my waves then you’re either not real bright or you can fight really well."

Really mate???

Personally, I've found the blokes to keep an eye on are the ones that say nothing but just have that 'don't fuck with me' vibe about em'. Those types won't rant and rave and certainly won't talk up their 'perceived' fighting skills.

They just quietly 'deal' with shit when their buttons are pushed.

there is no way you should be sitting on the inside at a point break you aren't a local at. there's miles of beach around...go find a peak.
and if you do paddle out...sit way down the line up and wait for someone to give you a wave. don't want to do that? then move away from a large urban area.

I’m not talking up my fighting skills. Not at all. I’ll never throw a punch until it’s necessary. I’m not trying to come across as some kind of hard man . But I don’t accept people treating me as the door mat either.

This conversation doesn’t need to go down this road.

All I’m saying is dont be a hassling prick in the surf. It’s greedy , it’s selfish and it’s imposing your greed and selfishness on others. I’ve done it and I’m not proud of it. To suggest that you’re entitled to hassle someone is some strange thinking.

Anyone who willingly becomes involved in violence over a surf needs to go and find themselves a life. It's sad and pathetic. I mean someone hassled you out of a few waves that you believe you were entitled you? Get over it!

I agree.

Violence isn’t something anyone walks away from with a better life. I just struggle to understand your pride in being a hassle.

Do you have self imposed rules or do you just hassle everyone equally be they man , woman or child . Able or disabled. Just set your face in a grim stare and paddle around them ?

I have to wonder what sort of 'quota' one might achieve in these sorts of conditions?

Ha ha not too bad really, I reckon you could score a couple without any drama!

Jameso, a cautionary tale from the Swellnet archives...

https://www.swellnet.com/comment/503476

Unenjoyable experience for everyone involved.

Yes, including the reader.

Very clever, Facto.

Ummmm I think the coppers and switchblade comment were tongue in cheek - over to you Jameso!!!!

i found best to wait quietly at the back of the pack, when a set comes that they all look at, you at the same time then make your way quickly but quietly further up or out the back. never do to the paddle past in between sets.

ambo, that's a lot of words to say "snaking".

Yeah most people are wise to that.

Oi, who's seen Fight Club? Sick film, hey.

Spoiler alert: Ain't it clever how the Brad Pitt character is really the Ed Norton character's psychological projection?

Whoah, Schizo.

He even beats himself up!

Yew!

It’s 15 metres up the point. That’s not snaking. FWIW I wouldn’t even wait for a set to paddle 15 metres up the point. They were clearly in the wrong spot for the waves you wanted

go sit 10-15 metres away from someone.
thats not even a half size pool.

plenty of places that might fly.

plenty of spots with a localised crew where all it will get you is grief, or worse.

experience is knowing when to pull your head in.

Getting burnt by on older local at Burliegh is a right of passage. I don't care how courteous you've been in the line up. Get over it . Don't escalate it tho ,,trying to spray the guy or going rail to rail with legit locals is probably not the best way to win friends out there.

If I was the old local guy, I would have given a hoot then paddled up and got the next one. Anyone who thinks sitting in the wrong spot then giving a death threat to someone who just put surfed you is ok, is out of their mind

Someone handing out death threats will run into the wrong person one day.

I was out at xxxxx one day marvelling at the fact that the locals still had any of their own teeth in their mouths. You don’t know what anyone is capable of these days. Risky business to be playing the token fuckwit.

Just cause someone’s rocked up in a family wagon , towing a caravan , with a missus and kids doesn’t mean they don’t throw punches like a threshing machine and who will mow through a few measly inbreds without problem if push comes to shove.

Remember when Sunny Garcia’s kid got hassled at Burleigh?!

Yeah you really have know idea who is a mma killing machine these days. Like someone else said they are generally the quiet unassuming ones.
Gotta be careful who you’re mouthing off to!

I told this story once- mates brother, little wiry fella, quiet but funny. Him and his missus over the wild wild west when he paddled out at heavy localised spot. He's a patient guy, good surfer, not a hassler, knows the rules and has been around. Anyway, big tough fella snarled at him with his mates in tow, ordered him back to the shore. 'No worries' he said with a wink 'but I'll be waiting for you'. Paddled in, didn't catch a wave.

Waited patiently for tough guy to finish sesh, tough guy rocks up, mates behind him, old mate didn't say a word, walks up smashes him right between the eyes and drops dickhead like a school bag. Tough guys mates bolted. Old mate helps tough guy to his feet and sends him on his way, tail between his legs.

Next day word had obviously got around, old mate didn't miss a set that day.

So yep, definitely the ones you least expect.

Surfing's loosely constructed set of "guidelines or etiquette" have always been, and always will be, manipulated by either side of the argument to justify their behaviour. You're sitting up the point selectively taking a respectful amount of set waves and old mate local thinks just one is too many. A drop in is bad, but it happens everywhere. Why? Someone's internal justification.
Here's an example from the other week - I was surfing the last day of a dying swell, mid morning, mid tide by myself for about an hour. A tricky outer bank which the last remaining biggest sets were breaking on and walling up enough to fill across a large gutter before the inside bank where about 5 other guys were sitting. Long waits between sets, maybe 10 minutes on an outer bank solo in a well known sharky spot. Old mate paddles out and sits on the edge of the gutter trying to sneak across and grab a set but not wanting to fully commit to the outer bank. I catch maybe two sets riding past him and then paddle back past him to my marker from a house on the beach. He keeps trying to (and failing) catch a few and after the next time I paddle back to my spot he gives me the old stop snaking me whinge.
We've both probably got valid points to argue about. The situation could easily escalate into fuck you's. But instead of trying to win an argument or justify your actions (which are always ultimately about YOU getting more waves) control the only thing you can control in that situation - your reaction.
I've been the guy that would have told old mate to fuck off way too many times, I've been dismissive and completely ignored people a lot too, but in this circumstance I told old mate where my take off marker was, how the sets weren't really breaking anywhere else with the dying swell and how I'd sat where he was earlier and couldn't catch anything. He came out to the outer bank and I let him pick the next set. We ended up having a bit of a chat and all was ok.
After almost 40 years of surfing I think the simplest guideline is - don't be a dick.

"don't be a dick" ,, haha,,,I know a song about that . Words to live by.